Mini 611 - Troy, Meet Helen (Game Over)

[Farkshinsoup]

Hi all. Please give me some time to do a proper reread. I'll try to post by this time tomorrow.

[Farkshinsoup]

Still in the middle of my reread. Can someone post a link to the "other game" that keeps being referenced in the early pages? Not sure if I will read it, but I'd like to give it a quick look so I know what everyone is talking about.

[Farkshinsoup]

Thanks. Like I said, not sure I want to muddy the waters by even reading that, but it might help clear up a few things from the early part of this game, if necessary.

[Farkshinsoup]

Sorry, Farkshinsoup, that you inherited an already-caught scum role.

I'll just have to muddle through somehow.

Re-read done. Jeez, you guys can post.

To me, though, the most important post in this game is this one:

I think had is scum, judging by the way he claimed. Maybe we should lynch him today anyway. Besides, the worst case scenario is losing an unknown sanity cop, which isn't that bad, is it? I'm sure my excellent scum hunting abilities will make up for it.

Can't believe we were not going to lynch the guy who suggested lynching a claimed cop. A claimed cop with no counter-claim.

I'm happy to drop the hammer. But first:

Thesp: could you give us a little more info (flavour, anything) about Had's, now your, cop claim?

[Farkshinsoup]

So I'll drop the hammer later today, I'm just waiting for Thesp to check back in. I had some questions for him, so did Macavenger, haven't heard anything to make me change my mind.

[Farkshinsoup]

unvote

Mod, I think that thesp has a vote on Netlava.

[Farkshinsoup]

vote: netlava

I'll leave it to thesp to hammer, then.

[Farkshinsoup]

Can't believe we were not going to lynch the guy who suggested lynching a claimed cop.

I was questioning to general tendency to for cop claims to be off-limits for lynches D1. In retrospect, yes that was a bad post, but I guess that's the price for free thinking.

Come off it, I don't buy the whole "poor me" attitude of this post. There is a very good reason why suggesting the lynch of the cop is a scum tell. Whether you believe his claim or not, you move on to find the other scum, because if he is telling the truth, you don't waste a lynch on him.

You have every right to be a "free thinker", and I have every right to think that you are lying scum who's trying to get a possible cop lynched.

[Farkshinsoup]

Quit trying to make my post seem as if it's something it's not.

My post was actually a resolution not to post deliberately controversial posts in the future unless discussion is seriously lagging. (Discussion was lagging a bit at that point, since everyone and their mother was putting hadhfang on the top of their LOS)

So you're saying that the reason that you suggested lynching Had even though he'd claimed cop was because you were trying to be deliberately provocative, in order to get conversation going?

I don't believe you. There were other issues being discussed at the time, specifically BB's semi-role claim.

Had's roleclaim certainly seemed suspicious. He wasn't very believable. I think you were trying to capitalize on that and the fact that he had an unknown sanity to see if you couldn't get him lynched.

[Farkshinsoup]

I will be V/LA from Sat, July 19 1:00 pm to Tues, July 22 7:00 pm. GMT -4.

[Farkshinsoup]

I'm going to have to read over the case against Walnut from Day 1. I also eagerly await Thesp's investigation results.

[Farkshinsoup]

Tinsley, speculating as to why Batt was NK'ed is the absolute dumbest thing we can do.

QFT

ALL of it will be WIFOM and will lead to arguments the mafia will get townies lynched over.

Please, no one answer his speculation question.

Please don't try to direct our actions.

[Farkshinsoup]

I really don't want to argue with you about this, charter. I feel that there were too many arguments that did not really illuminate anything on Day 1, I would rather not go there again today.

I just don't like it when players try to tell others what or what not to post, even if it's not likely going to be helpful.

[Farkshinsoup]

Well, I'm waiting for Thesp, where I go next on this day is gonna depend on what I hear from him.

While we're waiting, if you could give me a quick summary of why you are so hot on lynching Walnut, that would be helpful (no sarcasm there, I'm serious).

[Farkshinsoup]

I agree with CF Riot’s argument on the NK speculation, how can it hurt? While Batt might not have been the likely lynch, he was suspected by myself, camn, ShadowGirl, charter, and Mac. While that may not have been enough for a lynch, it would have helped to draw suspicion away from scum.

How can it help? It's all WIFOM. He could have been killed by one of you, or by someone else to put suspicion on you.

I think it's more worthwhile to forget about the NK and concentrate on things that we do know.

[Farkshinsoup]

So Thesp has no useful investigations from last night.

Mod, if a cop investigates someone who is then NK'd will they still get a result on that person?

Woah, that's 5 on me isn't it?

My comments initially were based on a quick skim read of everything, the next post was after I had time to read through it all and reflect. THe first comment on the SK thing meant I thought that the speculation on teh SK was weird, but I didn't think Charter's assumption mix up had much in it at the time. Re-reading it, Charter was the one that made a comment on teh SK speculation first, which in turn began more open speculation about it.

Charter seems to be pushing for a lynch quite eagerly at the moment and it's only page 3.

Also, I'm a cop with an unknown sanity. Of course its up to you as to what you think of that.

This is the post where Had claimed. Notice that he said "unknown sanity". If this was a fake claim, it's a good move because 1) if there was a sane cop in the game, they would not counter claim, and 2) the unknown sanity part keeps him from being lynched. If he had said that he thought he was paranoid, he'd have probably been strung up.

So then why would Thesp further clarify the claim to say that it's most likely paranoid? If he was scum, what would he have to gain by that, especially considering he suspiciously investigated Batt? Thesp, could you elaborate at all about how you came to the conclusion that you are paranoid and not simply of unknown sanity?

For now,

FoS Thesp.

It's difficult to get to the useful stuff when it's buried in crap that doesn't pertain to the town's interests. (Even if Jonathan Coulton is hysterical.) Scum do this to weigh down re-reads and make it hard to wade through to find the useful stuff. Town unwittingly do it thinking ti gets them somewhere. There is a point of diminishing returns to posting. At some point, the useful information begins to be drowned out amongst the garbage.

QFT, though.

Now, onwards. Charter, I think you are scum.

Here was your response to Had's claim:

Don't lynch him today and if he lives through the night lynch him tomorrow. Of course the mafia could always not NK him, but I see that as much more unlikely than him actually being mafia (if he lives).

farside rightly called you out on this. Why are you not advocating that he be lynched today, since he is still alive?

In response to farside's calling him on it:

I think you trying to pin this on me is scummy. What does everyone else think?

"You are scummy - Hey everyone, don't you think she's scummy?" It's OMGUS, and an appeal to the majority to back you up.

If you now say that I'm further directing people, I'm going to explode. I'm not telling anyone to do anything, just explaining what I assumed obvious and that everyone thought.

When I asked for a "quick summary" of your case against Walnut, you choked me with a requote of your old posts. It's almost as if you wanted to show all of the work you had done to get to this point, rather than make a cogent argument.

A lot of your play this game seems to be a mix of fake aggressiveness (looking at every little thing that everyone does as a possible scum tell) and defensiveness when you are questioned. You seem like you are scumhunting, but I think that you are just flinging accusations around and trying to appear active.

Vote: charter

[Farkshinsoup]

I'd also like to hear if anyone seriously wants to lynch me today.

Not today. If you are scum there are others out there, and I think that there is enough there to believe that you may be town, and possibly be a useful cop as well. I feel good with a Charter lynch, but I still owe Walnut a thorough reread.

Tomorrow may be your day, though.

[Farkshinsoup]

I shall be on vacation from the 27th to the 8th.

That's nearly 2 weeks. Are you expecting to not have any internet access during that time?

Just want to know what to expect, because we could possibly have lynched someone by then and be through the next night and into Day 3 by the time you get back.

[Farkshinsoup]

I wasn't aware that I was supposed to be helping you with that post. In fact I don't see the point of needing to do it all. I would have assumed Fark did a reread when he replaced and he would have seen my posts. I could have summed up the reason to vote Walnut in one sentence, but that's not going to convince anyone if I don't cite examples, which I did in the quoted posts.

I asked you for that summary because I was curious to see what you would say, how you would summarize it. I'm not sure that it's a scum tell that you just pasted all those quotes in, but I think that your posts in general have had a lot of quantity, and not so much quality. Let me say this, that post did not convince me that Walnut is scum.

I acknowledge that the case I laid out against you was on the thin side. I'm not going to win any scummies for my scum hunting. If there was a case on anyone (including Walnut) that I thought was really airtight, I'd be on that wagon right now.

That having been said, the speed with which the wagon on you grew after my vote has me somewhat alarmed. I'm keeping my eye on it.

[Farkshinsoup]

Ok, so after doing a reread of the Walnut case I'm going to

Unvote

I still don't see the case against Walnut. I read his posts from the trainwrecked game, (where he was town) and his play style here seems the same to me. And since the main knock against him is that his style of play seems scummy, I won't lynch him unless something else comes up.

Back on Day 1, Thesp replaces in and says this:

Netlava, Tinsley & farside22 are scum. My apologies to the rest of you for ruining this game by discovering the scum already, I'm sure you would have had loads of fun figuring it out for yourselves while they picked you off one by one.

Then a few posts later, he votes netlava. As it turns out, the vote did not count because he had not unvoted. (I think it's safe to say that we all thought that this vote put Netlava at L-1)

Tinsley's next post is what caught my eye. If you entertain the idea that he is scum, imagine what's going through his head. A guy has just replaced into the game who has "Paragon of Mafia Hunters" next to his name. This guy has accused him of being scum. Also, it seems that the innocent townie is about to be lynched, with or without his vote. So here's what he posts:

You not living past night one has NOTHING to do with this game. Period. There's no reason to throw that out there.

Exactly. Walnut you continue to post useless content. I understand you defending yourself, but overall your posts have done little to help find scum. In regards to setup speculation, I don't believe you were directly asked questions, and instead of ignoring the questions, you answered them, distracting the town further.

Because Netlava is so close to a lynch:

Vote: Walnut

Netlava and Hadfanhg seem suspect to me, but I am getting the strong read off them that they just play Suspect. But I will watch them.

I think Batt is scummier....

camn - We still have over a week before the deadline, why do you feel the need to vote now? If you're not certain on Netlava, I don't think you should vote him yet. I agree that Battousai is scummier, and would be willing to vote him if we can get enough people to choose him over Netlava.

Tinsley pops up when his name is called

, and rarely otherwise.

Thesp - Welcome to the game. I'll admit that I don't post nearly as frequently as others do here, but I've also been busy, and as I believe farside said, the frequency of posts in this game is high and difficult to keep up with. Can you provide examples of me popping up when my name is called? Can you also give us reasons why you're voting Netlava?

He votes Walnut, a vote that looks pretty useless at that point, put there more so that he can not be on the erroneous Netlava wagon. Also notice how sure he is that Net is town, and how he's willing to lynch Batt instead (there was no way that was going to happen either)

Because Netlava is so close to a lynch:

Vote: Walnut

That is a truly weird reason for voting.

Seeing as you and Netlava were the two leading candidates, and I felt you were scummier, I voted you in hopes of evening things up. Unfortunately it looks like my vote won't make a difference.

I don't buy it. Your vote put Walnut at L-3 at a time that Netlava appeared to be at L-1. There was no way that things were going to get "evened out" and you knew it. I also don't believe that Walnut was the scummier of the 2 at that time to someone who was trying to choose between the 2.

Wow, I'm surprised to see Batt killed as he was one of my top suspects. However, I think there's a legitimate reason to suspect nearly anyone right now (I'm hoping to list those reasons later when I have more time to post.)

Does anyone have any ideas on why Batt was chosen last night?

Comes right out of N1 with this big pile of WIFOM speculation. Also, here he does something that I've seen in other posts, namely putting questions out to everyone, which looks like it's supposed to spark discussion, but is mostly just useless. This question is particularly useless, as it concerns speculation on who would want to kill Batt last night.

Tinsley is the lynch today, not Walnut and not Charter.

Vote: Tinsley

[Farkshinsoup]

Just to be clear, charter, you are still number 2 on my scum list, but I saw this case against Tinsley and it seemed stronger to me. My whole reason for unvoting you is my case against him. That seemed clear to me. Why don't you comment on the case I made against him instead of just dismissing me as scum?

We can lynch you tomorrow if that makes you feel better.

And I'm sorry - what contradiction do i use as evidence against Tinsley? I don't understand this point.

[Farkshinsoup]

Did you read my post, charter? It's totallly disingenuous to characterize my case against him as "Tinsley puts forth stuff that's mostly useless." Most of my case has to do with his highly suspicious voting on D1. You've conveniently ignored that. I also point out some very useless stuff he said off the top of D2, but that is a minor point in my suspicion of him.

As for the timing of my case, I only now had the time to get back and do the reread. You accused Had of this same thing on D1, not making the case fast enough after comments were made. Sometimes, when I do a reread with a different emphasis on posts, things become apparent that were not before. I don't see how this is scummy.

I don't need to comment on your case against Tinsley, you're scum for reasons other than poor cases against people.

That's pretty convenient. What are THOSE reasons again?

[Farkshinsoup]

Not incredible helpful... but do scum act this way?
No, I don't think so.

I don't buy this. Scum act all kinds of ways. They even act differently in different games. It's a null-tell.

[Farkshinsoup]

I think Fark decided he didn't quite have enough votes to lynch charter, so he decided to start a Tinsley bandwagon to appeal to Thesp. If he could get Thesp to vote with him, then he just needed two more non-scumbuddy votes.

Vote: Farkshinsoup

This is a thinly veiled OMGUS vote. You even conceded that I made some good points in your last post, but now the reason I attacked you was because I decided that you were the easy lynch today?

Yes, what a good play. I decided to get Thesp on my side, despite the fact that he's got me pegged as his top scum candidate, and so I took my vote off of the guy with 4 votes already and parked on the guy with no votes. After Thesp, and my 2 scum buddies, who will, of course follow me slavishly, I just need to convince 2 more innocent townies! Simplicity itself! Also, I craftily used compelling arguments.

The reason I switched my vote is that to me, you are clearly the most scummy player here.

[Farkshinsoup]

Here's the key to my argument. While charter had four votes on him, you thought you couldn't secure the final two votes necessary to lynch him, so you decided to make a case on someone who could. charter was tempted to vote me at the beginning of D2, so I think you thought it was possible to sway him.

Just so that we're clear here, aside from Thesp, who were my 2 scum buddies that would jump on your wagon? And who is the other townie (aside from charter) that I was counting on winning over?

[Farkshinsoup]

charter, you suspect a lot of people. Can I ask you who your top townie is and why?

[Farkshinsoup]

Looking for someone to kill off tonight?

Yes, charter, you've caught me. Damn, how did I think that I would ever have a chance of pulling off my scum plans with you and Tinsley around?:roll:

Angry and aggressive is just another form of manipulation. If he makes talking with him unpleasant, and you stop voting for him, he has manipulated you. It seems to be working, as right now people seem to be saying that Charter is playing too badly to be scum.

QFT. As I've stated, I still think charter is scum, and I would be happy to lynch him today if my diabolical plan to get Tinsley lynched doesn't pan out for some unfathomable reason.

So I'd like to point out that Shadowgirl has started her vacation and will be gone for 2 weeks, without voting for anyone or contributing any opinions. We may have to take her out of the equation for Day 2. We'll see how long it lasts. It's possible that we won't have gotten around to lynching Tinsley by the time she gets back.

[Farkshinsoup]

I don't buy it. Your vote put Walnut at L-3 at a time that Netlava appeared to be at L-1. There was no way that things were going to get "evened out" and you knew it. I also don't believe that Walnut was the scummier of the 2 at that time to someone who was trying to choose between the 2.

This is all your opinion here. I voted for who I thought was scummier of the two. I didn't want to let my vote go to waste.

But your vote did go to waste. That's the whole point of my argument. Clearly you knew that it wasn't going to get Walnut lynched, so the only reason to put it there was to be able to point at it on Day 2.

The fact that you made a point of calling out everyone who voted Netlava in post 477 only bolsters my argument:

I really think it was the mafia’s plan all along to make Netlava the target on D1 because of his play style. While all members of the scum team may not have voted Netlava, I feel confident that one or two did.

Voted Netlava - CFR, Walnut, LG, Batt, camn, Farkshinsoup, Netlava (Thesp did, but forgot to unvote, Macavenger was willing to)

[Farkshinsoup]

I'm pretty sharp. You need to get up earlier than that to pull a fast one on me Fark.

I'm well aware of your sharpitude. Part of my suspicion of you is based on your play in Cop Central. You don't seem as sharp here in this game. You are much more defensive and sarcastic.

I haven't forgotten how you won that game for town. So I promise that when we lynch you, I'll make it quick.

[Farkshinsoup]

Tinsley, I'd like to invoke Occam's Razor here: The simplest explanation is the most probable. (I know that this is an oversimplification of this concept, but you know what I mean)

Which is more likely, that I came up with this risky plan, hoping to swing all of these people over, some of whom think that I'm scum, also potentially outing my scum buddies, who would all have to silently agree with me and move their votes - OR - I did a reread, saw some suspicious things, and changed my vote?

This argument is weak, and you should acknowledge that before you dig yourself into a deeper hole.

[Farkshinsoup]

You're right, I'm sorry, I should have voted for someone I didn't find scummy.

I never suggested that you should have. You could have not voted at all. Why, exactly, did you feel the need to put this useless vote on Walnut?

Uh...I called out nearly everyone in that post. I was trying to keep an open mind, and generate some discussion.

Yes, but the first sentence of that post specifically called out everyone who voted for Netlava, who was the correct lynch for Day 1. He was acting very scummy. I'm not saying that scum weren't in on that lynch, it was a great place to put their vote, but there were also clearly townies who thought he was the guy on Day 1.

Also, calling out "nearly everyone" is a move that appears pro-town on the surface, but is actually a way of calling out no one.

[Farkshinsoup]

I will be V/LA from Thursday, July 31, 7:00 pm to Tuesday, August 5, 3:00 pm. All times GMT -4.

[Farkshinsoup]

Why are you only picking on Tinsley for this?

The timing of his vote. As I said, he had just been called out as scum by Thesp, and he believed (as did we all, I think) that Net was about to get the hammer. You and charter had your votes on Walnut for the second half of Day 1. So it's not the same. In regards to SG's vote on Batt, I'll have to go back and look at that.

Further to my point about Thesp, since I was one of the people that he pegged as scum, I can tell you that I thought to myself, "This is trouble. This guy has Paragon of Mafia Hunters under his name." If I had been scum, I would really have been worried.

I think that Tinsley wanted to make sure he had a verifiable vote on the opposite side of that lynch so that he could defend himself on Day 2. Have you noticed how he keeps asking Thesp why he thinks he's scummy? Not aggressive, but insistent. I think Thesp has him worried.

[Farkshinsoup]

Correct is subjective. I feel Walnut was the correct lynch yesterday. Netlava was not a bad D1 lynch, but Walnut was a better choice.

Yes, correct is subjective. I don't mean that he was the only correct lynch, obviously there were others as well, since there is more than one scum. So let me re-phrase that: Netlava was not the wrong lynch on D1. There were a lot of good reasons to lynch him. At least you and charter had been making the case for Walnut for most of the day, but Tinsley came in, and chose Walnut after it was pretty clear that he would not be lynched.

I don't think that the choice between Tinsley and Walnut is necessarily mutually exclusive, by the way. While I don't agree with a lot of the case against Walnut, I wouldn't clear him yet, and it is certainly conceivable that Tinsley was bussing his partner. For me, that's speculation for another day, after Tinsley gets lynched.

[Farkshinsoup]

What did I have to gain from voting Walnut rather than just not voting at all?

Because it makes you look more town by taking a stand, all be it on a lost cause. If Walnut is town, then you can push for his lynch on D2, with the added legitimacy of being on the right side of the Netlava lynch. At the end of Day 2, you've got 2 mislynches on the first 2 days.

If Walnut is scum, then you get to actively bus your partner safely without having to lynch him. If he's the Day 2 lynch, you come out looking very pro-town.

[Farkshinsoup]

Ehh, I'm leaning towards Fark being horribly wrong in his assessment of things, but wrong as town now.

I'm moving up!

[Farkshinsoup]

Also, are you really saying the correct move in that situation for a townsperson is to not vote? Why would not taking a stance be more protown than taking any sort of stance?

Don't put words in my mouth, CF. I was not trying to argue for some universally "correct" pro-town way of acting in all situations. I'm arguing about this specific situation, with this specific player.

I think the question you need to ask yourself is, why did Tinsley not put the hammer (well it wasn't actually the hammer, but we thought it was) on Netlava. Either you think he was town, and he had it figured that all of the scum tells that Net was throwing off weren't for real, or he is scum, and he didn't want to be hammering an innocent townie. Clearly I believe the latter.

[Farkshinsoup]

As for Camn, her claim concerns me, because it's made her immune to investigation, but she hasn't done anything overtly scummy, and until we find some of the other scum in this game, talking about lynching her is premature and not good for the town, IMHO.

[Farkshinsoup]

I wasn't arguing all situations either. But you can't look at the situation as "scum would do what he did, so he is scum." You have to look at it from both angles.

I never suggested that you should have.

You could have not voted at all.

Why, exactly, did you feel the need to put this useless vote on Walnut?

You're saying the way he voted for Walnut is scummy, so I took this bolded statement to mean you think not voting would be more townish. I said townsperson rather than Tinsley because if you're justifying the tell itself it shouldn't matter who it is, unless you want to argue meta. (Which I don't see as being a factor for this particular instance.) So answer my question, would not voting have been the more correct action in that situation?

CF, let's look at the whole quote that I was responding to:

You're right, I'm sorry, I should have voted for someone I didn't find scummy.

I never suggested that you should have. You could have not voted at all. Why, exactly, did you feel the need to put this useless vote on Walnut?

Tinsley was portraying this situation as if he had only two choices: voting for walnut, who he found scummy, or for Net who he did not. This is disingenuous. He also had a third option, which was not to vote at all.

In my response, which you have bolded above, I was pointing out this inconsistency, I was not trying to say that this was the only pro-town option in this situation.

So in answer to your question, no, in my opinion not voting would not have been the best course of action for a townie in that situation. Voting for Netlava would have been.

As you point out, I have to look at this situation from all angles. Can his behaviour be explained with town motivations? Sure. Do I think that his behaviour is better explained by scum motivations? Yes. You're welcome to disagree with me.

[Farkshinsoup]

So in answer to your question, no, in my opinion not voting would not have been the best course of action for a townie in that situation. Voting for Netlava would have been.

So you're suggesting it's good for townies to vote for people they don't find scummy?

Bad for townies, perfectly acceptable for scum.

[Farkshinsoup]

So how is the explanation that Tinsley is a townie that found Netlava to be not scummy enough to lynch an impossible explanation for the situation? You don't seem to consider it at all.

I considered it and rejected it. Please refer to my post 566 for my reasons.

I have a question for you: How is the explanation that Walnut is a townie that just has an irritating and unhelpful play style an impossible explanation for that situation? You don't seem to consider it at all.

[Farkshinsoup]

Seriously though, the big thing with Walnut is the utter lack of scumhunting for most of the game. That's different than a lot of tells in that there is no motivation for a townie to not scumhunt, but there is motivation for scum to do that. The other stuff Walnut has done is really just icing on the cake to that central fact. Tinsley's behavior has a valid town explanation. You may reject it, but it exists. There is no valid town justification for the level of failure to scumhunt that Walnut has demonstrated this game.

Yeah, you make a good point.

Walnut, do you have anything else to contribute that doesn't have to do with responding to accusations? How about my fight with Tinsley?

[Farkshinsoup]

Wow, thanks for the helpful post, Thesp. I know that you're counting on being dead soon, but it would be nice if you could devote a little more energy and analysis to this game.

[Farkshinsoup]

Ah, okay, sorry, I have the sigs disabled because I find it makes the threads too cluttered. I await your posts.

[Farkshinsoup]

I don't know Tinsley. I'm having some doubts. I went back through your posts and I found these from earlier on D1, before you voted for Walnut:

A few here have already mentioned our tendencies from our last game. That's the reason why I'm hesitant to lynch Netlava right now. Sure, he's been contradicting himself, but if I remember correctly he did that in the last game in addition to twisting other's words, and yet he still wasn't scum.

I said in post 285 that I don't think Netlava is unlynchable, but I don't think we should lynch him today.

So at least this proves that your desire not to lynch Netlava was evident from earlier on. You also posted suspicions of Walnut earlier, so your vote is certainly consistent with town behaviour.

That having been said, it's also consistent with scum behaviour. As Netlava started drawing fire, you could have decided that you would come out against his lynch, and wait for any competing wagons to jump on.

I also don't like the way you OMGUS'd me with that weak argument that I couldn't get charter lynched so I was coming after you. I noticed you dropped it for now. That argument is scummier than anything else you've done, IMO.

I'm leaving my vote on you for now, but I'm going to keep looking.

As for Walnut, what bothers me is that if you are town, then you must realize what a massive distraction you are to finding the actual scum. What possible motive could you have for doing this?

[Farkshinsoup]

Mod, I have 2 votes on me.

[Farkshinsoup]

Hmmm, LG has contributed absolute zero on D2 and seems to really be trying to fly under the radar. Perhaps he could use a little pressure.

unvote
vote:Lord Gurgi

I'm about to go away until Tuesday. No internet access. No one lynch anybody (including me) until I get back.

[Farkshinsoup]

Wow, LG, that was a huge over-reaction to my vote.

Explain to me why I'm not allowed to vote for reactions on Day 2? Where is that in the general rules on Page 1?

I think your OMGUS vote (just because you point it out and say that it's not, does not make it so) has shown me that my pressure vote was a sensible move.

As for your assertion that I contradicted myself, I'm sure you are quite aware that Mac and I were discussing the specific situation of the hammer vote on Day 1. My vote for you here is completely justifiable, whether I think you are scum or not.

Also, my vote hopping is certainly not going to distract anyone from finding me scummy. It's ridiculous for you to assert that.

I'll leave my vote where it is for now, thank you very much, and I'll try to get around to a reread on you when I return.

[Farkshinsoup]

I'm back from vacation, but something's come up in meatspace and I can't devote to much time until tomorrow night. (I also have another game with a deadline, I have to give that some attention).

Ever since I attacked him, Tinsley's been looking to get rid of me somehow. And I still can't forget that lousy argument he pushed my way when I put my vote on him.
LG's response to my vote was also interesting. If we manage to lynch Tinsley today, I'll be looking at LG hard tomorrow.

Time to fish or cut bait.

Unvote Vote:Tinsley

[Farkshinsoup]

I've done a lot of vote hopping today, no doubt about that. And yes, I want to run a wagon on whichever scummy player I have the best chance of getting lynched. Many people have admitted to the same thing in this game. There's nothing scummy about being strategic with your vote to make sure that scum gets lynched (especially since we haven't even lynched one of them yet)

[Farkshinsoup]

Fark – In post 632 you said you were going to keep looking at me. Did you find something that made you want to change your vote back to me? You think that both I and LG OMGUS’d you, what made you decide I was more lynch worthy?

It comes down to this:

I think Fark decided he didn't quite have enough votes to lynch charter, so he decided to start a Tinsley bandwagon to appeal to Thesp. If he could get Thesp to vote with him, then he just needed two more non-scumbuddy votes.

This crappy argument + OMGUS + Day 1 voting = my vote for you.

[Farkshinsoup]

And I'm back down again.

charter, please read Tinsley's post 715. What part of my master plan do you not understand? After your re-read, you were supposed to vote for Tinsley. Tinsley! If you switch right away, I'll spare you later.

Tinsley, your logic is flawed - I really like the way that you've set it up so that the more people find you scummy, the more it's a result of my scummy plans. There are valid reasons why people are voting for you, and just because they are, that is not proof that I orchestrated this bandwagon in advance.

The fact that you keep floating this hare-brained idea tells me that my vote is in the right place.

[Farkshinsoup]

FoS Lord Gurgi.

Did you just ask for a deadline?! That's pretty damn convenient, since that bandwagon against you just recently evaporated.

I really don't want to have to switch my vote AGAIN, but I'll do it if you don't convincingly explain to me why you requested a deadline.

[Farkshinsoup]

Me not suspecting Tinsley has not much to do with you Fark. It's largely because I am positive LG is scum.

Yeah, I got that charter, I was using you to make a sarcastic point to Tinsley. I should not use sarcasm - so easily misinterpreted. (Please do not interpret that last statement sarcastically.)

@Fark
DID you orchestrate this wagon in advance?

No.

you wrote this:

If we manage to lynch Tinsley today, I'll be looking at LG hard tomorrow

What does that mean?

I said that in the same post where I switched my vote back to Tinsley from LG. As you can tell from my post, I wanted Tinsley lynched. At that point, yeah I was hoping that Thesp would switch his vote over to Tinsley, because, again, I wanted him lynched. So "we" means you, me, hopefully Thesp, and anyone else that wanted to lynch him.

Remember Tinsley is saying that this was my plan from the START, that I've been manipulating everyone to lynch him.

Let me ask you this:Do YOU think I orchestrated this wagon? If you do, then vote me. If not, then don't.

(again, zero sarcasm in the above statements. No appropriate emoticon.)

[Farkshinsoup]

I'm asking for a deadline because discussion is becoming petty and pointless. If you're honestly pinning asking for a deadline as a scum tell then I bow to your almighty framing abilities.

So you think that the discussion has become petty and pointless. I don't entirely agree with that, but I can see your point, the day has dragged on a while. So how does it help to request that a deadline be imposed on us by the moderator? Wanting the day to be artificially shortened is beneficial to scum, especially scum who would like to force town to choose between someone other than themselves.

You can dismiss my suggestion that this is a scummy move with snide comments, that does not make it any less scummy.

Screw it, I'm switching my vote again.

Unvote. Vote: Lord Gurgi.

[Farkshinsoup]

I have never seen a deadline placed on a town be detrimental to a town, because it makes the town cut the garbage out, and move onto actually scum hunting, the fact that you're voting me for asking for a deadline is ridiculous.

There are two different issues that you are trying to make one issue. First: deadlines imposed by moderators and whether they are good for town. Second: requests for deadlines from scummy players in order to corral the town into lynching a townie.

I'll concede that on the first issue, I pretty much agree with you, it does tend to cut out the garbage. The second issue seems pretty clear to me, and my voting you for it is in no way ridiculous.

[Farkshinsoup]

You're saying it's a scummy move because I'm scummy, but if a towny player did it, it would be a towny move?

Please don't put words in my mouth, LG. What I'm saying is that deadlines imposed by the moderator, of their own volition, are a different matter. The reason that I am voting for you is that you very recently were under fire for your scummy play, so the timing of YOUR REQUEST to cut debate short seems highly suspicious.

Nice try, though.

[Farkshinsoup]

charter, put your money where your mouth is. If you think he's scum, then vote for him. Even if you think I'm scum bussing my partner. Why does that matter?

[Farkshinsoup]

Yes, exactly. You're making a none-scummy action scummy, because I'm doing it.

No. Straw man.

So help me, if anyone uses the 'YOU WOULD SAY THAT SCUM' logic on me again I will explode.

It is rather hard to defend against someone who everyone views as 'scummy town'. Vote me or don't I'm tired of people talking about it.

You keep trying to make this argument, that people label you as scum first, and then decide to interpret your actions as scummy. That is a very convenient defense, since it allows you to avoid addressing any of the actual scumtells that you are throwing out. It also is a way of saying "poor me, I'm being persecuted unfairly" when in fact that isn't the case.

I have NOT read the other thread, nor do I intend to, however I think that many people (particularly scum) are accusing the same people as last time to make it easier to build a case.

Who, exactly, were you referring to here? Please elaborate.

[Farkshinsoup]

I would say we should wait for ShadowGirl, but I don't think she would contribute anything to break us out of the petty arguments.

Interesting that you asked for a deadline to be imposed 1 day before Shadowgirl was scheduled to return. Why not wait for her, see what she had to contribute, and then decide whether to ask for the deadline? Why are you so sure that she wouldn't have anything interesting to contribute? At the very least she has a vote that isn't on anyone at the moment.

Also, why not ask the town whether any of us wanted a deadline imposed before you unilaterally decided to request it?

I'm not implying that these are necessarily scum moves, I'd just like to hear your answers.

[Farkshinsoup]

I'll vote for either of Tinsley or farkshinsoup (my vote is currently on farkshinsoup, even though I've enjoyed his presence in this game).

Honestly, considering how many people find me scummy, I'm starting to think that the only reason I'm still alive is for entertainment value. From now on, Thesp, I want you to call me Farkle, or failing that, THADmiral!

Seriously, though, I can't believe that LG hasn't set off your scumdar. You have a serious case of tunnel vision in this game. You still aren't cleared yet, but your posts don't read like scum to me.

I'm pretty good with my vote on LG. In fact, I'd be tickled pink if we could put him at L-1 and see what his reaction is. I could also vote for a Tinsley lynch.

[Farkshinsoup]

LG, I asked you some questions in my posts 748 and 749. Would you mind answering them?

[Farkshinsoup]

Also, why not ask the town whether any of us wanted a deadline imposed before you unilaterally decided to request it?

2. Yes, let's hold a vote, since that's working so well for finding scum, I'm not going to pass every decision I make by you.

Never said anything about holding a vote, but I do find it interesting that when you imagine consulting with the town, you immediately thought of me. I thought you said I was scum.

I will not elaborate on this point, as I think doing so will cause the town to go off on a tangent.

Yes, this would be consistent with your recent attempts to ape Thesp's "I think we've done plenty of talking. It's time to lynch someone." attitude. Of course, as I've pointed out, you have a vested interest in cutting off discussion and forcing a deadline, seeing as you're scum.

I don't blame you for avoiding these inconvenient questions. I'm at L-2, and you have 1 vote, mine. If I was scum and was in your shoes, I wouldn't feel too pressured either.

[Farkshinsoup]

Yeah, I did miss that question

Fark what is your opinion of Walnut? What do you think of Mac's case?

I'll be honest - when I see a huge argument that mostly references post numbers and the poster's reactions to them, I rarely read those posts very closely (Charter, this goes out to you as well). I don't want to have to flip back and forth to compare the statements in the post with the interpretations. No knock against those kinds of posts, that's just how they effect me. Call me lazy if you want.

So I did skim it, and it's clear that Mac put a lot of work and thought into it, and I think he's town, but if his intention was to persuade with his argument, then mission not accomplished, at least as far as I'm concerned.

As for my own opinion of Walnut, I sum it up thusly: scummy, but not the scummiest.

No I said that because you obviously wanted to comment on it, because you've been crusading against deadline since I first suggested.

Please stop misrepresenting my posts. I have not been crusading against a deadline, I've been calling YOU out for your REQUEST for a deadline. Your defense of yourself with these strawman arguments is just another brick in the scum-wall.

Mod: can we get a prod on Shadowgirl?

She's been back since friday, so no excuses for not posting.

[Farkshinsoup]

LET'S GET LYNCHING, PEOPLE. If it will help for me to move my vote to Tinsley, I will do so.

This is getting a little tiresome. You keep cajoling us to lynch someone already, but you have only 2 people who you're willing to vote for, and I happen to have inside knowledge that one of them is a townie. And I think it's pretty clear that even if you switched your vote to Tinsley, that would not help, so how about widening your scope a little and ACTUALLY being helpful?

You said you'd put a vote on Walnut to pressure him. How about lynching him? I'd vote Walnut to break this impass, I know charter would, and Tinsley certainly would, Mac has never taken his vote off of him. LG, as much as I'd like you dead, and you'd like me dead, would you vote Walnut? Because that's 6 votes right there.

[Farkshinsoup]

Charter, I doubt that I could give you a "good explanation" (meaning one that would convince you that I'm not scum), so I'm not going to bother, unless you really want me to.

If everyone would get their act together, get behind someone and work for it, perhaps we'd get somewhere in this game instead of spinning in circles, which seems to be what we're doing now (which is more than a little tiresome).

So what you mean is, if everyone would just get behind your 2 top suspects, we'd be good to go. The issue isn't that we don't want to lynch somebody, it's that we all have different people that we want to lynch. Do you have any concrete suggestions for how to solve this problem?

I'm not sure what else to say. LG, Tinsley, and Walnut, that's who I'd be willing to lynch, in that order. Maybe if everyone stated the people they are willing to lynch today, we could find some consensus and lynch that person. I suspect that I am the consensus person, then so be it, better we know it and get moving.

Mac, I appreciate your unwavering consistency in this game, but even if Walnut is scum, there are others out there. Do you have any second or third choices that you'd be willing to lynch today? (you may have already answered this question, if so, just quote it) I know some of you have made yourselves known on this issue already, but I'll throw it out there anyway.

[Farkshinsoup]

^This post is good.

[Farkshinsoup]

I know that SG's vote doesn't actually put me at L-1, but I'm going to treat it like it is, because of CF and charter's and Mac's intentions to lynch me. I was hoping that she would vote for someone else but that was not in the cards. Sorry it came to this, but this is my first game with a power role, and I obviously did a bad job flying under the radar.

I'm a weak doctor - I can protect someone at night, but if I protect scum, I die. Last night I protected Thesp, and since I didn't die, he is confirmed cop.

Did you notice how at the end of Day 1 I was trying to get Thesp to give me some more info about his role pm?

Can't believe we were not going to lynch the guy who suggested lynching a claimed cop. A claimed cop with no counter-claim. Shocked

I'm happy to drop the hammer. But first:

Thesp: could you give us a little more info (flavour, anything) about Had's, now your, cop claim?

So I'll drop the hammer later today, I'm just waiting for Thesp to check back in. I had some questions for him, so did Macavenger, haven't heard anything to make me change my mind.

I wanted to protect him, but I also didn't want to die if he was scum. And I wanted to leave something behind for you guys to figure out who I protected if I didn't make it through the night. (Although I'm not certain that my "weak" status would have been revealed after I die - still don't)

I was hoping that during Day 2, Thesp would drop his focus on me and look elsewhere but that never happened. I tried to give him a breadcrumb that only he would understand here:

Honestly, considering how many people find me scummy, I'm starting to think that the only reason I'm still alive is for entertainment value. From now on, Thesp, I want you to call me Farkle, or failing that, THADmiral!

This is a reference to a game that Thesp was in about a year ago called Farkle Mafia, where a player named THADmiral was the doctor. Here's the link: viewtopic.php?t=5037.

So I'll most likely be NK'd tonight, but I should be able to protect Thesp so that he can get in one more investigation.

I'll answer any questions anyone has, but I'll be away from the computer until later today.

Carry on.

[Farkshinsoup]

On the upside, we go into tomorrow with at least one investigative role. From the point of if Fark is alive he can clear one person, if Thesp is alive we have an investigation.

So you're suggesting that I protect someone other than Thesp? At first I thought that was scummy, but after some thought, I'm not so sure. I'm going to think about the implications of that possibility, and I'd like others to weigh in on it.

If I protect Thesp, and make that known, then he will survive the night with an investigation, unless there is a roleblocker, in which case scum could block me and kill him, giving us no useful investigation, then kill me the next night. Or they could block Thesp and kill me, same result, and they could kill Thesp the night after.

If I protect someone else, then Thesp could have an investigation, and through my death or survival we might be able to investigate someone else. Again though, if there is a rb, then I could be NK'd, possibly muddying the waters, and Thesp could be blocked.

In other news, I can't believe I'm doing this again, but since I can't seem to sway Thesp on LG, I'm going to

unvote vote: Tinsley

. Just a better chance of getting him lynched, and I really want to lynch scum today. Tinsley, are you a mafia roleblocker? Cause that would be awesome.

[Farkshinsoup]

^Yes.

[Farkshinsoup]

Damn page break. Just to be clear:

Should I go ahead and do it now?

Yes.

[Farkshinsoup]

Just to make this game that much more interesting, I think we should mass claim.

There are 2 vanilla townies dead already, 2 main power roles are out in the open, as well as 1 more vanilla and however you want to describe Camn's role. So lots are out already, let's get it all out there and force scum to lie. They won't be prepared for it.

Thesp could pick the first one to claim and then each person picks the next one to claim.

[Farkshinsoup]

I knew you would say that.

[Farkshinsoup]

Walnut, are you for or against the mass claim? I pose this question to everyone else as well.

[Farkshinsoup]

My suspicion of Walnut mostly came from his history with Fark (both being on the bandwagons for Netlava, charter, and myself/Fark trying to get any lynch besides Walnut)

I take you back to the end of Day 1, when you voted Walnut instead of Net. You clearly suspected him then, and I had barely been in the game at that point, much less become involved in any of the stuff you mention above.

In regards to the massclaim, since I'm clearly in the minority on that, I'll let it drop for today. I gotta say though that I'm becoming a fan of them. Still trying to figure out when the best time to do them is, though.

Please carry on lynching Tinsley. At this point, if you're not on his wagon, please ask yourself, am I that certain he's not scum? If not, then get on the wagon. It's a good wagon. Comfy seats.

[Farkshinsoup]

I'm not seeing the Mac thing - I can't believe that he has 4 votes, when almost everyone else in this game is scummier, including me. (well, I can believe it, since 2 of those votes are coming from LG and Thesp) Not that I'm sure that he's town, but if someone can show me a scumtell I'd like to see it.

I don't buy the whole, "he's been targetting the people that it's so easy to pin scum on" argument. One of those people was Net. As far as I'm concerned, pushing for his lynch is a bit of a nulltell, since he was acting so scummy. (This is part of the reason I support a Tinsley lynch - he was able to "see through" Net's scummy behaviour to see the inner townie shining through) Mac was right to suspect him.

Mac said this:

Why are you suddenly so certain that both Walnut is town, and that I'm scum pushing a wagon on him, rather than town doing so?

QFT. Assuming that Mac is scum because he's been pushing Walnut's lynch only makes sense if you KNOW that Walnut is town. At this point you're putting the cart before the horse.

Oh and

FoS Shadowgirl

. In your last post you:
a) joined a bad wagon for a bad reason
b) safely came out against a mass claim after everyone had dismissed it, including me, the instigator.

Combine this with your general ghost-like presence in this game, and I think it deserves a suspicious finger. Mac's not the one who's been getting a free ride in this game, it's you.

[Farkshinsoup]

Am I reading this right? You think Tinsley is the lynch because Tinsley was against the Netlava lynch?

I know this Day has been very long, so I'll cut you some slack for forgetting my argument against Tinsley from page 23, post 566.

Camn, could you please drop the hammer on Tinsley so we can end this day?

[Farkshinsoup]

Jeez, I suck.

I'm just going to shut up for a while.

[Farkshinsoup]

quicklynch

Your use of that word on this day makes me laugh. I just want scum to die now - what's wrong with that?

[Farkshinsoup]

Anyway, I shall likely be absent for tommorow - I'm going to the CNE and will probably be exhausted when I get back.

Hey, we live in the same town! Small world. Pick me up some Tiny Tom's donuts?

Haven't had a chance to read the Tinsley case against charter, so I have no comment. Will look at it tomorrow.

[Farkshinsoup]

Deadline time. Tinsley needs to swing.

[Farkshinsoup]

Mac, he's just... The whole perfect townie thing. I think his lynch would be informative

A) "The whole perfect townie thing" is a bad reason to vote him. What if he is a perfect townie?
B) You want to lynch him for information? Baaaaad.

Mac is a bad lynch for today. It's a "hunch" lynch. Save that one until tomorrow.

Vote Tinsley in "08!

[Farkshinsoup]

SG, how prepared are you to go with your gut? Would you go to a no lynch at the deadline rather than switch your vote to Tinsley? I put the same question out to LG, CF, Mac, and Walnut. We need to know where we stand.

[Farkshinsoup]

By default, if no one moves their votes, I believe it is Tinsley at the deadline.

Should have gone back to check the rules before I shot my mouth off. Thanks walnut.

6. Deadlines may be implemented if I feel that discussion is lagging. At deadline, the person with the most votes will be lynched. In the case of a tie, the person who was voted for first is lynched.

[Farkshinsoup]

In other news, I like Mac's argument for CF. I'm looking forward to hearing his response.

[Farkshinsoup]

Mod: Mac is currently voting for Tinsley.

[Farkshinsoup]

In post 514 (on page 21) this was my first post after Thesp had checked in and revealed that he had investigated Batt (in the same post, he slapped a vote on me BTW). Very unfortunate. I was really hoping that his investigation would help us find scum, or go some ways to giving us a path to clear him (or better yet, me).

So the guy was voting me, and was claiming that he was a cop of undetermined sanity who just happened to investigate the dead guy. If I had not had knowledge that he was actually telling the truth, this would have definitely warranted an FoS from me. So that's what I did. If I had just given him a pass, it seems to me like I might as well have hung a sign around my neck saying "Hey scum, power role over here!."

I Fos'd him, then moved on to other things. (In fact, in that very same post I made a case aginst, and voted Charter) I never really pursued any kind of a case on him for the rest of the day.

Please continue lynching Tinsley.

[Farkshinsoup]

I shall be on vacation from the 27th to the 8th.

That's nearly 2 weeks. Are you expecting to not have any internet access during that time?

Just want to know what to expect, because we could possibly have lynched someone by then and be through the next night and into Day 3 by the time you get back.

Just wanted to post this so we could all laugh at how naive I was.

[Farkshinsoup]

You gotta be kidding me. Are you intentionally trying to screw up this day?
This one's for real:

FoS charter

.

[Farkshinsoup]

Take a look at how the voting shaped up before Fark changed his vote from charter to me:

Voting Walnut 2 (charter, Macavenger)

Both adamantly pushing Walnut's lynch.

Voting Farkshinsoup 1 (Thesp)

Doesn't see a case against charter, but is willing to lynch Fark or myself.

Not Voting:

ShadowGirl - V/LA until 8/8.
Myself - Starting to have doubts about either bandwagon.
CF Riot - Going to do a reread and then decide between charter and Walnut

charter 4 (Walnut, Farkshinsoup, camn, Lord Gurgi)

I think Fark decided he didn't quite have enough votes to lynch charter, so he decided to start a Tinsley bandwagon to appeal to Thesp. If he could get Thesp to vote with him, then he just needed two more non-scumbuddy votes.

Vote: Farkshinsoup

You never addressed this, Tinsley, because I ended up switching my votes about a jillion times and stopped asking, but could you please now explain how it was you came to make this horrible argument coupled with your blatant OMGUS vote?

[Farkshinsoup]

charter, please just put your vote back on Tinsley now.

[Farkshinsoup]

charter, seriously, PLEASE put your vote back on Tinsley NOW. Feel free to lynch me if I'm still alive tomorrow.

[Farkshinsoup]

charter, do you realize that if Tinsley had put his vote back on before you, or if he had never unvoted in the first place, that Mac would then have been the tie-lynch, and the only way to lynch Tinsley would have been to sway one of the people voting Mac right now.

I didn't want to point this out in the thread - it's why I FoS'd you. The only thing your vote for me would have accomplished was a Mac lynch at deadline.

[Farkshinsoup]

A couple of thoughts:

1 - I was so very wrong about Mac. I would have defended him to the end. I got suckered big time.

2 - That having been the case, I need to go right back to the start and try to do a fresh read of this game. That's going to take a while.

3 - Not sure why I'm still alive, I think that scum is hoping that there's enough suspicion on me to get me lynched.

4 - I protected Thesp again last night. Eager to hear if his investigation bore any fruit.

[Farkshinsoup]

So Fark, other than they're trying to set you up, why do you think scum picked Walnut over you? Who's most suspicious to you now?

I'd rather not speculate further at the moment, not sure it's very productive.

I haven't come to any conclusions about scum yet.

[Farkshinsoup]

4 - I protected Thesp again last night.

[Farkshinsoup]

Still haven't had time to reread. Hopefully before the weekend.

Vote: Lord Gurgi

[Farkshinsoup]

About half way through rereading Day 2. Feeling very good about my LG vote, based mostly on interactions between him and Mac, and the way that they stayed away from each other with their votes on Day 1. Mac spent a lot of time defending certain people, including charter, who looked like the day 2 lynch at one point. Mac seems like pretty smart scum, I don't think he would have stuck his neck out like that for one of his scum buddies when they were that close to the lynch.

Mac also calls out lots of people at various times, (Day 1: Net, CF & Batt, Walnut. Day 2, Walnut, SG because of her lurkiness and vote on Batt, who was NK'd by Mac, probably for that very reason, and me as I started to attack Tinsley) The only time LG shows up on his radar is after LG slips up and OMGUS votes me on Day 2, at which point Mac calls him out on something that he feels he just can't ignore.

I think Mac must have felt very safe going into Day 2, I think he wasn't all that careful with his comments, he must have thought he was not in danger of being lynched. There's a lot there, and I'm still going through it.

I'll try to do a PBPA once I'm done with the reread.

[Farkshinsoup]

You're saying it's a scummy move because I'm scummy, but if a towny player did it, it would be a towny move?

Please don't put words in my mouth, LG. What I'm saying is that deadlines imposed by the moderator, of their own volition, are a different matter. The reason that I am voting for you is that you very recently were under fire for your scummy play, so the timing of YOUR REQUEST to cut debate short seems highly suspicious.

Nice try, though.

Yes, exactly. You're making a none-scummy action scummy, because I'm doing it.

Just had to post this from Day 2. This exchange was sparked by my re-voting LG after he requested a deadline. This request was made right after a wagon on him had fallen apart.

He tries to say this: deadlines can be good for town, and since I requested a deadline, that makes me pro-town. Then he ignores the circumstances and timing of his request, saying that I have just decided that he is scummy and labelled his actions scummy because of that. Very slippery.

[Farkshinsoup]

vote LG

obvscum

Look back to yesterday how he votes for Mac, then 'is worried' because Mac gets votes. If you're voting for who you want lynched, you aren't worried like he was.

QFT

[Farkshinsoup]

Question before we get too much further in lynching LG. If LG does flip scum, who is their partner? I've been thinking either Fark or Riot. I want to go back and find out which it is though.

Not sure why this is necessary. If we lynch LG, one way or the other there will be another dead townie when we wake up tomorrow. Then you can ask this question. Obviously, if you want to try to figure it out for yourself, go nuts. I would rather concentrate on the matter at hand, though.

[Farkshinsoup]

Methinks that was the hammer. No?

[Farkshinsoup]

Since I might be dead soon, I think we should consider lynching Camn tomorrow. (This is assuming that we weren't wrong about LG - I don't think we were) Since she has an unverifiable claim, it's too dangerous to leave her until LYLO. If she is scum, game won (probably - can't imagine we have 4 scum). If she is town, then no harm done, move onto the next day.

I'm not sure she's lying, but if she is, there's no way for us to figure it out, and she's been getting a free pass this whole game due to her claim. She hammered Mac pretty quick yesterday, I've been wondering about her since then.

Just saying.

[Farkshinsoup]

I protected Thesp again last night.

Thesp, please explain to me why no-lynch is better than a lynch today.
Are you going to tell us who you investigated the past 2 nights? Any conclusions on your sanity?

And CF, I don't think we are in LYLO yet.

The last scums have to be Charter and SG, or someone is lying.

LOL. Someone is definitely lying, alright. Figuring who's doing it is the challenge.

[Farkshinsoup]

Vote No Lynch

Makes sense to me.

[Farkshinsoup]

You shot who in the what now?

This is the second game of mine that's ended in the past day where I got my ass kicked as a townie. I'm glad I don't post my win-loss record in my signature.

Interested to hear from Mizzy.

Shadowgirl, I can't believe you lurked your way to victory. If we ever walk past each other at the Eaton Centre, I'll know it's you, and I will pelt you with Timbits.

Seriously, good game scum, you had me, (and others) chasing my tail for most of that game.

[Farkshinsoup]

So SG, you were mafia, but you could only win if the Godfather died?

[Farkshinsoup]

Mizzy, thanks for modding, you did a great job, IMHO.

I notice that CF Riot and Mac came in 2nd. Does that mean that Town wins the bronze? Seriously, though, SG is really the only winner here, isn't she? Is this not analogous to how an SK beats both Mafia and Town? It seems a little fuzzy.

Also, I'm trying to figure out whether the game was balanced or not. Seems like it might have been tilted a little in scum's favour. (Or maybe it's just sour grapes cause I got pasted). I'd like to hear from some of the more experienced palyers on that.

I had a lot of fun, good game everyone, sorry I didn't really contribute much.

[Farkshinsoup]

Camn's role, the PGO, was incredibly important for the town. She was the balancing token (a way to kill scum without the need for a lynch.) Once she claimed publicly, then I do feel like things were weighed slightly in scum's favor. I did ask 3 people with good modding experience for their input on the set-up before I used it.

I have no doubt that you exercised due diligence to make sure that the set-up was balanced. As I'm relatively new here, I'm still trying to figure out how game balance actually plays out in real game situations. I'm certainly not trying to imply that the balance was out of whack just because we lost.

Props to the 3 scum, all of whom were low on my list throughout the whole game. Hell, I thought that camn was scum at the end there, and if I had survived another night, I would probably have pushed for her lynch. Scum played well, and that's why they won.

Camn, I think you did the right thing under the circumstances. BB made the bad play with his half claim, you were just playing the hand you were dealt.

[Farkshinsoup]

charter's logic on it was perfect. There was no way we were going to win once I had differing investigations on mafia (with a Godfather revealed).

QFT.

[Farkshinsoup]

I'm really tempted to do a full re-read, I'm sure there's a lot I could learn by reviewing things, but, well, 50 FRICKIN PAGES!!!:shock:

[Farkshinsoup]

Fark, as a parting note, I've learned two laws of the universe in this game. First, cop investigations are completely useless. Second, Fark is always town no matter how scummy you seem.

Funny, I was going to say the exact same thing about you.