Mini 611 - Troy, Meet Helen (Game Over)
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Tinsley
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Tinsley Goon
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Some thoughts so far:
CF Riot - Seemed like an innocent statistical mistake at first. Then in post 48, you admitted you knew Had was just as likely to be scum in this game as anyone else. I know when you take both games into account he only has a 1/16 chance, but the fact that you posted it that way was misleading.
charter - I took his posts to mean that he assumed 3 scum in figuring the odds, just as CF Riot did. I don't find it scummy.
Lord Gurgi - I don't see how the town can gain from assuming there are 3 scum and 1SK. I'm a noob, but I would think making a statement like that would only invoke distrust or paranoia among everyone.
Battousai - Quickly votes farside after she votes Lord Gurgi, but says it was a random vote with a bit of information. Was it because you disagreed with her? Was she too quick to change her vote? Do you think she's scum, or was it a truly random vote?
FOS: CF Riot and Lord Gurgi-
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I think that is certainly misleading. I could see how a mathematically challenged person could read that and believe that Had is less likely to be scum.CF Riot wrote:There's a 1/16 chance that Hadhfang would get mafia both games, assuming the number of mafia hasn't changed for this game.That's 6.25% chance he's mafia.Just sayin'.
That was the other key issue I had with that statement. You singled out Had, when your logic should have applied to charter as well.CF Riot wrote:And I didn't say itbut that number I came up with goes for you too since you were mafia last game also.-
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I don't know what you're referring to here. Was it something Had, charter, or Acidmix did last game?Blackberry wrote:I think Tinsley is mafia cuz he tried to post an analysis of everyone. And after what we saw last game.
I don't like restarting this, but it's whatever.
Blackberry wrote:I will stay in this game however only because I have a super-kick-ass role.
Great I'm sure this will really help put a stop to the setup speculation.-
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Unvote: Hadhfang
I think it's a little early to be putting Had at L-2. While I have some concerns about him (flip-flopping on charter's triple post and CF Riot's misleading statistic on him). I think it's way too early in Day 1 to lynch him. We've barely heard anything from Blackberry or Battousai.
Speaking of Battousai, I had some questions for you in post 61 that you still haven't addressed.-
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True, but I thought four (now five) pages is too soon to make a lynch. But with Had's claim, I agree that we certainly shouldn't lynch him today.Battousai wrote:Now I don't know what information can be gathered, as this is the first time I've tried this, but I think Tinsley will look very scummy to me if Had turns up scum.
Is there anyone else you suspect right now?-
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Care to elaborate on this?Blackberry wrote:I think it's Tinsley + Had
The fact that you already have two targets in mind before reading the game seems scummy.Blackberry wrote:I don't buy Had's claim at all. It's exactly what scum would claim. I don't know about my read of Tinsley + Had, I could be completely wrong, as I haven't actually read this game yet, lol.-
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A few here have already mentioned our tendencies from our last game. That's the reason why I'm hesitant to lynch Netlava right now. Sure, he's been contradicting himself, but if I remember correctly he did that in the last game in addition to twisting other's words, and yet he still wasn't scum.
I'm not too sure about charter being scum either. He was much more defensive as scum in the last game when the wagon started to build on him. He may have learned his lesson, but I'm not getting scum vibes from him right now.
My motives have cooled on CF Riot, I doubt he would do all of that research and write that mammoth of a post (173) if he were scum.
Unfortunately, I think the person who deserves the most attention right now is the one that's getting replaced. Blackberry claims a "super-kick-ass" role without anything to really prompt it. He also claims to suspect myself and Had without much of an explanation. Then he leaves us saying confidently that Walnut is scum and possibly Macavenger as well.-
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Could you provide links to the games you've seen it done? I think the problem with that theory is that I don't think people wait until a deadline to do a reread. I believe I had just finished a reread when I called you out for lurking.Battousai wrote:It's a new strategy that I've seen done that relies on the fact that scum try to shift blame everywhere (typically picking an inactive townie) and making them seem scummy, and townies usually pick up on inactives nearer deadline when they realize that they don't have much to go on when rereading.
I'm surprised you didn't lump hadhfang in with me, seeing as a few here believe we could be scumbuddies based on my unvote when he reached L-2. In regards to the big posts, I was referring to the fact that to how much effort and thought went into that post.Battousai wrote: Netlava: Has basically tunnel vision of CF Riot. Outed the doc (he thought it was the doc at the time). Goes after LG for somewhat defending Netlava (gave an excuse for Netlava's actions), and completely ignores the post by CF Riot, not even touching the discrepencies and contradictions in the post.
BB: Doesn't give this game much effort (reasonable as asked to be replaced), claims a great role out of the blue, and tells people who he feels is scummy, but doesn't give much of a reason why.
Tinsley: This is more gut than anything. He defends CF Riot, saying he is most likely town because he wrote a big post. Scum writes big posts too.
Those three are the main people whoIGMEOY
Camn - Welcome to the game. Knowing what you do from inheriting BB's role, would you say his suspicion of Walnut and Macavenger were serious?
Mod - You don't have me listed anywhere in your vote count, but you have charter listed with a vote on camn and no vote. I think I'm supposed to be on the no vote list in charter's place.
I've got a busy weekend ahead of me so I may not post much before Monday.-
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Sorry I've left everyone hanging I've been working on a reread but it's been going very slowly because the outside world has been getting in the way. But after 4 days and 4.5 pages of notes I'm up to the point of my last post of substance (post 201). My List of Suspicion from Greatest to Least at the moment (please keep in mind I've still got 3 more pages to go on my reread ):
Battousai - Admittedly lurked early in the game. When asked for his reason he learned the idea from another game - from scum Still don't know the point of his question to Netlava in post 150 (I think the reason he provided in post 192 was weak). While lurking may not make you scum, when you pair it with your weak reasoning and avoiding questions (as you did when I asked you for a list of suspects) makes you seem scummy to me.
Netlava - I agree his contradictions are certainly scummy. I also find it interesting that he and charter continue to defend each other. Charter defended him when Battousai questioned him in post 150.
Netlava switched his vote from charter to CFRiot when charter was up to 4 votes without providing a very good reason (something to keep in mind if we find out one or the other is scum.) I can't be certain on him though because of last game.
Hadhfang - Flip-flops on the charter's contradiction, then claims cop when he believes he was at L-2 (but actually at L-3). To be honest he was still at the top of my list when I unvoted him, but I felt it was far too early in the game. He's been quiet since. Obviously we shouldn't lynch him today.
charter - Has not been as defensive as he was in the previous game (as scum.) Regarding the accusation that he's setting up Had's lynch D2 - I honestly had the same thought, but I guess the key there is that he posted it.
Lord Gurgi - Only up this high because he brought up the SK point, has been asked at least twice about it, but still hasn't addressed why he brought it up. I've read everything else about him as town.
Walnut - Had suspicions of him earlier in the game because he seemed to focus on setup speculation and didn't provide much useful analysis, but I thought he made a great point in post 187 and appreciated him calling out Battousai for avoiding my question about his suspects.
Camn - Hard to get a read on her as she had just joined the game before I took off. But I like what I've seen from her so far. BB on the other hand came off very scummy. He was at the top of my list before he left.
CF Riot - Besides his misleading stat to start the game, he has seemed pro-town. The only other thing I could come up with on him was his analysis of Netlava came after Netlava voted him (OMGUS?) but he made valid points so I don't really put much stock in that. I don't really see the relationship between him and Battousai as Netlava suggests.
ShadowGirl - Hard to read her. As of Page 9 she hadn't posted much and what she did post was confusing or reiterated what others had said (post 194).
Farside22 - I disagree with her thoughts about charter being a hypocrite between posts 100 154. But that doesn't make her scum.
Macavenger - Living up to his sig. He's provided useful analysis and hasn't done anything that sticks out as suspicious.
Sorry for the absense. I've finally got some free time coming up so I'm going to work on getting completely caught up and post some more thoughts this weekend. Back to reading.-
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A few more thoughts after a quick skim over the last 3.5 pages:
I wanted to know if BB/camn's role might have provided any explanation to BB's peculiar behavior. But I think your comments here have flown under the radar. Once again you bring up role/setup speculation, as you have throughout this game causing distractions.Walnut wrote:As camn has already answered this, I feel relatively free to ask Tinsley- what were you thinking? How could Blackberry's role have told him anything of note about the mafia? To be purely hypothetical (so as not to compromise anyone's thinking about the current game), is there any role that on Day One, with no Night one and therefore no prior info, would have a better idea or not of which roles the other players would have? That is, other than a role that was intrinsically linked (e.g. siblings, lovers, lyncher/lynchee). Is that what you were implying?
FoS: Walnut
I know you later clarified this as too many conversations at once were confusing, but as others have stated if we just focus on Netlava, based on his playstyle, he'll get himself lynched.camn wrote:Lets take a hard look at NetLava for a couple days.. simply because he is our vote-leader right now.
Let's not get distracted by other accusations for a little bit, until we are satisfied.
I don't really see Netlava's case on LG. I honestly interpreted LG's post as "Let's give him a chance to defend himself before lynching him."
My opinion on Netlava hasn't really changed, more of Netlava being Netlava. I agree that his weak cases and flip-flopping on Riot are suspicious, but as I've stated before, it fits his playstyle whether he's town or scum. I don't think that makes him unlynchable however, I just think we should look for other scum and revisit him based on his actions a little later in the game.
I like Mac's suspicion of Batt, Walnut, and Riot, as both Batt and Walnut were already high on my list. All are currently suspicious of Netlava, two of which are currently voting him. I would think as scum Netlava would make a good first target because of his playstyle.
I placed SG low because I don't have much to go on her either way. She should probably be looked at for lurking, however, I played in the recently finished Newbie 610 with her, and she probably could have been qualified as a lurker there as well (she turned up town.)Battousai wrote:Concerning LG, the only reason I saw for him to bring up the SK was at the beginning when people were speculating on the amount of scum. He said, from memory, either 3 scum or 2 scum and a SK. Then people started questioning him and made him bring it up more. Shadowgirl is the 3rd most protown player on your list (3rd from bottom), do you feel lack of beneficial posts gives her more protown credability than someone who has posted a lot, but made a few posts that could be interpreted scummy?
LG - I believe you said something to the effect of We should assume 3 mafia and 1 SK. I know you say you weren't trying to stir paranoia, but the way you said it made me think you were trying to do just that.-
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I never said that your stance on Netlava was cause for suspicion, I and a few others have noticed that you have made several posts discussing possible setups and roles. How are these helping us find scum right now on D1?Walnut wrote:
I don't think the question to camn was meaningless. She has a little bit more insight to BB's actions than the rest of us, so she would know if BB's actions were role-related or not. Judging by her post 287, they may have been.Walnut wrote: Maybe I should have been blunter, and just said that your question was at best meaningless and at worst scummy. Instead I tried to show why it was so, and you followed Macavenger's weak lead in saying that anything that provides context for the game is distraction.
Walnut wrote:What? When I say it, it is cause for suspicion, but when you listen to what I say and paraphrase it, it is good reasoning?
Camn - Why are you considering claiming now instead of waiting until a possible lynch is imminent?-
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In ShadowGirl's defense, I just finished Newbie 610 with her where she posted infrequently as well. She turned up town in that game. For right now I believe that it's just a matter of time constraints.Lord Gurgi wrote:Post 183:Maybe it’s me, but ShadowGirl, especially up to this point, was the town lurker, not Battousai.
It was still early in the game, and I felt that neither of the people I FoS'd (you and Riot) were deserving of a vote at the time.Lord Gurgi wrote:Tinsley
Post 61:Seems unwilling to vote.
I said in post 285 that I don't think Netlava is unlynchable, but I don't think we should lynch him today. Even if Netlava is scum, he's got scumbuddies we can hunt. We can revisit Netlava later in the game based on what we find out about others and his posting history. If you have time LG, I think you should go back and skim the trainwrecked game. I really think it would make an easy D1 for scum to target Netlava because he has an aggressive playstyle, and tends to make arguments based on minute details that others overlook.Lord Gurgi wrote:
Post 179:Seems to suggest that Netlava is unlynchable, this is bad, and nobody is unlynchable.
For right now, I would refrain from lynching the following people:
1)Camn - As others have pointed out, BB's semi-claim goes a long way proving her actual claim. Since I think most of us trust her at the moment, I'd like to see a list of suspicion from her.
2)Hadhfang - I don't think much explanation is needed here.
3)Netlava - I've explained this.
I don't think anyone is unlynchable though.
Walnut - What do you think of the proposed CF Riot/Battousai relationship? What do you think of Battousai's lurking strategy and the fact that he took it from a scum player?-
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Exactly. Walnut you continue to post useless content. I understand you defending yourself, but overall your posts have done little to help find scum. In regards to setup speculation, I don't believe you were directly asked questions, and instead of ignoring the questions, you answered them, distracting the town further.charter wrote:You not living past night one has NOTHING to do with this game. Period. There's no reason to throw that out there.
Because Netlava is so close to a lynch:
Vote: Walnut
camn wrote:Netlava and Hadfanhg seem suspect to me, but I am getting the strong read off them that they just play Suspect. But I will watch them.
camn - We still have over a week before the deadline, why do you feel the need to vote now? If you're not certain on Netlava, I don't think you should vote him yet. I agree that Battousai is scummier, and would be willing to vote him if we can get enough people to choose him over Netlava.camn wrote:I think Batt is scummier....
Thesp - Welcome to the game. I'll admit that I don't post nearly as frequently as others do here, but I've also been busy, and as I believe farside said, the frequency of posts in this game is high and difficult to keep up with. Can you provide examples of me popping up when my name is called? Can you also give us reasons why you're voting Netlava?Thesp wrote:Tinsley pops up when his name is called, and rarely otherwise.-
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ShadowGirl - What do you think of camn suspecting Batt most, but voting Netlava? Do you think Netlava's unwillingness to claim makes him more likely to be scum? What do you think about the case on Walnut, and charter's comparison of you and Walnut? We may be nearing the end of Day 1 soon, so it would be good to hear all your thoughts before then.-
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Seeing as you and Netlava were the two leading candidates, and I felt you were scummier, I voted you in hopes of evening things up. Unfortunately it looks like my vote won't make a difference.Walnut wrote:
That is a truly weird reason for voting.Tinsley wrote:Because Netlava is so close to a lynch:
Vote: Walnut
LG - Why the rush for the lynch? Mac already stated in post 444 he'd hammer tonight if no one else does. I don't like the fact you seem to be rushing it.-
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Batt - I'm not sure I understand your question regarding Mac/Walnut. Did Walnut = Lord Gurgi? If so, I have a problem with Lord Gurgi's post because he's urging others to change their vote, and he seems to have a problem with being in twilight. If Mac drops the hammer, it's by his choice, and he has made it known that he suspects Netlava.-
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I really think it was the mafia’s plan all along to make Netlava the target on D1 because of his play style. While all members of the scum team may not have voted Netlava, I feel confident that one or two did.
Voted Netlava - CFR, Walnut, LG, Batt, camn, Farkshinsoup, Netlava (Thesp did, but forgot to unvote, Macavenger was willing to)
CF Riot – Just on a quick skim, the tide on Netlava started to turn around page 7, and it looks to me like Riot started it. Riot was also linked to Batt. May have wanted to NK Batt to try to show he’s innocent.
LG – Still don’t like how he wanted someone to change their vote near the end of D1. Add that to the SK speculation, and the way he seemed very ready to jump on Netlava’s bandwagon just after CF Riot stated his case moves him up my list of suspicion.
camn – I believe someone speculated that Walnut could be the counter to her claimed role for scum. Could it be possible that her role is scum oriented? I’m hesitant to believe that though, because it seemed like BB was trying to draw scum attention with his soft claim. I still don’t like the fact that while she didn’t find Netlava the scummiest, she voted him anyways.
Walnut – I think everyone knows where I stand on him. Who do you suspect now that Netlava is gone?
Fark – Haven’t seen much scummy behavior from either him or farside. Right now I tend to trust him.
Those who ultimately did not vote Netlava – Thesp, Macavenger, ShadowGirl, charter, and myself:
Thesp – Voted Netlava, but did not unvote. Was that a mistake, or strategy? I’m interested to hear the result of his investigation. I’m also interested to hear who he suspects in Netlava’s place now.
Macavenger - The only thing that makes me wonder about him is the fact he’s still alive. I thought he would be the N1 target because he’s probably drawn the least suspicion. Not much of a case, but I’m starting to wonder about him. Now that Batt has turned up as townie, where do you stand on CF Riot? I also thought Netlava made a good point about the fact that he doesn’t seem as aggressive as he did in the trainwrecked game.
ShadowGirl – Still have a pro-town read on her for right now, but would like to see her participate more today. I’m interested to hear who she suspects now that the person at the top of her LoS turned up town.
charter – If there was one member of the scum team who didn’t vote Netlava, I think it’s him. While many of us were suspicious of Netlava, he continued to trust him without providing a good reason to. Maybe he knew Netlava was innocent, and sided with him to make himself look good when Netlava turned up townie. I’d also like to know why it’s a scum tell for Walnut to ask Thesp what he thinks, but it’s not when charter does the same. I agree with CF Riot’s argument on the NK speculation, how can it hurt? While Batt might not have been the likely lynch, he was suspected by myself, camn, ShadowGirl, charter, and Mac. While that may not have been enough for a lynch, it would have helped to draw suspicion away from scum.
Current LoS:
1) Walnut
2) charter
3) CF Riot-
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So you're confident that Fark and I are scum? Why did you investigate Batt instead of one of us?Thesp wrote:I am sorry that I was wrong about Netlava's alignment. I think I'm right about some other ones, though.
Also re: farkshinsoup, the way that farside22 did this felt markedly different than how others have done it - it felt deliberate.
I think Tinsley is scum. I think charter is pro-town and not thinking very well.Walnut wrote:Thesp, what is your opinion on Tinsley? How about on Charter?-
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Yeah, someone brought up the idea that Walnut may be the mafia version of a PGE. Couldn't it be possible that camn is the PGE working on the mafia side?CF Riot wrote:Tinsley, I'm think I know what you mean but your wording on one thing confused me. Just to be clear:
Are you just saying, "Is it possible she is scum?" or do you mean something else?Tinsley wrote:"Could it be possible that [Camn's] role is scum oriented?"
When I first read your post 501, I really liked it, and wondered why you weren't making posts like this on D1. Then after thinking about it, Had/Thesp had been at the top of your suspect list all of D1, and you started D2 off by asking for his thoughts. After he provides a weak investigation story, you don't question him on it at all. Do you believe him? Same thing applies to charter. Bottom line is, yes I still suspect you, along with charter and Thesp.Walnut wrote:In the context of Day 2, are you still finding me suspicious?
I didn't mean you didn't unvote Netlava, I meant you forgot (or did you?) to unvote CF Riot before voting Netlava. But I can see how I worded that to be interpreted the way you did. You do realize you didn't end up voting Netlava in the end right?Thesp wrote:On an aside, it looked like Tinsley (and/or others?) thought I had forgotten to unvote Netlava yesterday. I was out of town from Thursday afternoon on, but either way I would not have unvoted Netlava (making that moot).
Do you have any reasons to suspect me besides what you stated in post 389?Thesp wrote:I think Tinsley is scum.-
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Macavenger wrote:There are many posts on the past couple pages that are not in any way helping to lynch Walnut. This is very disappointing.
I don't understand the rush. Even if Walnut is scum, we still have his scumbuddies to find, and we can gain some insight into them before we make a lynch.Thesp wrote:Nonvoters, get moving.
I'm on the fence here. If you are in fact the cop and we lynched you, we'd probably seal our fate. But I can't get over the fact that you had the opportunity to investigate your suspicions, and instead you chose someone you had little info on (by the way, wouldn't ShadowGirl have been a better choice in that regard?) You think you're doomed to be killed eventually, so why not investigate the people you find most suspicious to be helpful toward the town?Thesp wrote:I'd really like to run up Farkshinsoup or Tinsley today. I do not mind the Walnut hate.
I'm still waiting to hear your case against me.
Thesp wrote:I'd also like to hear if anyone seriously wants to lynch me today.-
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Right, even though I'm still unsure between Walnut and charter, I should vote just because one of the players I find scummiest told me to.Thesp wrote:Stop stalling us and vote for someone.
What made you change your mind on Walnut? I'm still waiting to hear:Thesp wrote:I just reviewed Walnut's posts, and I'm not wild about his proposed lynch.
1) Your case on me.
2) Whether the fact you forgot to unvote CF Riot before voting Netlava was intentional.
3) Your answer to charter's question on how you're so sure that SG is town.
As for Walnut vs. charter:
I went back and read Walnut's posts last game and found more of the same of what he's done this game (for example check out "Scumhunting for Dummies" post 118.) This made me lean towards charter, however, I don't like how quickly the bandwagon on him formed. I don't think Fark's case is that weak, but I do think LG deserves more scrutiny. It was a prime opportunity to jump on the charter bandwagon since the general (incorrect) concensus was that charter only had one vote at the time.-
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Right, even though I'm still unsure between Walnut and charter, I should vote just because one of the players I find scummiest told me to.Thesp wrote:Stop stalling us and vote for someone.
What made you change your mind on Walnut? I'm still waiting to hear:Thesp wrote:I just reviewed Walnut's posts, and I'm not wild about his proposed lynch.
1) Your case on me.
2) Whether the fact you forgot to unvote CF Riot before voting Netlava was intentional.
3) Your answer to charter's question on how you're so sure that SG is town.
As for Walnut vs. charter:
I went back and read Walnut's posts last game and found more of the same of what he's done this game (for example check out "Scumhunting for Dummies" post 118.) This made me lean towards charter, however, I don't like how quickly the bandwagon on him formed. I don't think Fark's case is that weak, but I do think LG deserves more scrutiny. It was a prime opportunity to jump on the charter bandwagon since the general (incorrect) concensus was that charter only had one vote at the time.-
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I did earlier in the game, and I noticed you haven't been as defensive as you were in the trainwrecked one (as scum.)charter wrote:Did you go back and read my posts from last game when I was scum?
I'm just pointing out that since you've joined the game, you've been pointing fingers at myself and Fark without trying to build a case. If you're going to accuse Fark/farside for that reason, it's only right that we look at you for the same reason.Thesp wrote:1) I love how eager you are to defend yourself. You need to die posthaste.
Because when I first realized you did that I thought maybe you were trying to see who would put Netlava at L-1 thinking that they dropped the hammer. But when D2 started, you still thought you had voted Netlava (post 500), did you not read the posts at the end of D1?Thesp wrote:2) Nope, accidental. (Why in the world is this important?)
Regarding Fark/farside - Farside didn't post frequently, but as others have stated, she didn't appear to have time for the game. This makes sense seeing as she asked for replacement. Fark did make a case on charter and was only the second on his bandwagon. I don't think Fark's case was as bad as some make it out to be.
What do you think of Lord Gurgi? You never responded to to my question about Walnut.-
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I agree with charter here, the timing of your unvote is suspicious. After the entire bandwagon on charter gets called out, you decide to jump off.Farkshinsoup wrote:Ok, so after doing a reread of the Walnut case I'm going toUnvote
This is a fair argument to make against me since I made a similar argument against him in post 477, with the difference being that charter didn't supply much reason for believing Netlava. I'd stated my doubts about lynching him due to his playing style. This is speculation on your part.Farkshinsoup wrote:He votes Walnut, a vote that looks pretty useless at that point, put there more so that he can not be on the erroneous Netlava wagon. Also notice how sure he is that Net is town, and how he's willing to lynch Batt instead (there was no way that was going to happen either)
I was hoping to draw up support for the Battousai wagon, I had my doubts on him, as did camn and ShadowGirl, I'm pretty sure there were others who suspected him as well.
This is all your opinion here. I voted for who I thought was scummier of the two. I didn't want to let my vote go to waste.Farkshinsoup wrote:I don't buy it. Your vote put Walnut at L-3 at a time that Netlava appeared to be at L-1. There was no way that things were going to get "evened out" and you knew it. I also don't believe that Walnut was the scummier of the 2 at that time to someone who was trying to choose between the 2.
Once again the WIFOM speculation was your opinion, but there were some that thought it could be useful. Can you give some examples of what questions I posted that were useless?Farkshinsoup wrote:Comes right out of N1 with this big pile of WIFOM speculation. Also, here he does something that I've seen in other posts, namely putting questions out to everyone, which looks like it's supposed to spark discussion, but is mostly just useless. This question is particularly useless, as it concerns speculation on who would want to kill Batt last night.-
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Take a look at how the voting shaped up before Fark changed his vote from charter to me:
Voting Walnut 2 (charter, Macavenger)
Both adamantly pushing Walnut's lynch.
Voting Farkshinsoup 1 (Thesp)
Doesn't see a case against charter, but is willing to lynch Fark or myself.
Not Voting:
ShadowGirl - V/LA until 8/8.
Myself - Starting to have doubts about either bandwagon.
CF Riot - Going to do a reread and then decide between charter and Walnut
charter 4 (Walnut, Farkshinsoup, camn, Lord Gurgi)
I think Fark decided he didn't quite have enough votes to lynch charter, so he decided to start a Tinsley bandwagon to appeal to Thesp. If he could get Thesp to vote with him, then he just needed two more non-scumbuddy votes.
Vote: Farkshinsoup-
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I understood it would look that way when I made the vote, but I feel confident, so I stand by it.Farkshinsoup wrote:This is a thinly veiled OMGUS vote..
But he's fine with lynching me too.Farkshinsoup wrote:Yes, what a good play. I decided to get Thesp on my side, despite the fact that he's got me pegged as his top scum candidate...
Farkshinsoup wrote:and so I took my vote off of the guy with 4 votes already and parked on the guy with no votes.
Here's the key to my argument. While charter had four votes on him, you thought you couldn't secure the final two votes necessary to lynch him, so you decided to make a case on someone who could. charter was tempted to vote me at the beginning of D2, so I think you thought it was possible to sway him.
Farkshinsoup wrote:You even conceded that I made some good points in your last post
I said you made one fair (not good) point, because you speculated that I knew Netlava was a townie, and I had made the same speculation about charter. I didn't think it was enough to vote him though.Farkshinsoup wrote:Also, I craftily used compelling arguments.-
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Well I don't think Mac was about to jump on a wagon that you and Walnut were on, so I don't think he was going to vote me. But we all know Thesp would like to see me lynched. And if you are indeed scum, then I'm pretty sure LG is your scumbuddy. I'm starting to think that Walnut is your other buddy since you're so desperate to get someone other than him lynched.Farkshinsoup wrote:Just so that we're clear here, aside from Thesp, who were my 2 scum buddies that would jump on your wagon? And who is the other townie (aside from charter) that I was counting on winning over?
Charter said at the start of D2 that he was tempted to vote me, so I think you were hoping to persuade him to vote me. With ShadowGirl MIA (you seem very more agitated than anyone else by her absence) that would have left just CF Riot or camn to drop the hammer (unless I was dumb enough to drop the hammer on myself ), and at the time you didn't know where CF Riot stood on Walnut, so you may have thought you could persuade him as well.
The key point is I think you believed you could get five fairly easy votes on me (Yourself, your scumbuddies, Thesp, and charter) when a charter lynch was looking like it wouldn't happen.-
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You're right, I'm sorry, I should have voted for someone I didn't find scummy.Farkshinsoup wrote:But your vote did go to waste. That's the whole point of my argument. Clearly you knew that it wasn't going to get Walnut lynched, so the only reason to put it there was to be able to point at it on Day 2.
Uh...I called out nearly everyone in that post. I was trying to keep an open mind, and generate some discussion.Farkshinsoup wrote:The fact that you made a point of calling out everyone who voted Netlava in post 477 only bolsters my argument-
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What did I have to gain from voting Walnut rather than just not voting at all?Farkshinsoup wrote:The timing of his vote. As I said, he had just been called out as scum by Thesp, and he believed (as did we all, I think) that Net was about to get the hammer.
Actually I shrugged it off because didn't provide much to back it up.Farkshinsoup wrote:Further to my point about Thesp, since I was one of the people that he pegged as scum, I can tell you that I thought to myself, "This is trouble. This guy has Paragon of Mafia Hunters under his name." If I had been scum, I would really have been worried.
I explained this in post 565.Farkshinsoup wrote:Have you noticed how he keeps asking Thesp why he thinks he's scummy? Not aggressive, but insistent. I think Thesp has him worried.-
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That statement was made under the assumption that you're one of Fark's scumbuddies. While you have stated you believe I'm pro-town, if you're scum, I could definitely see you jumping on my bandwagon to save your ass.Walnut wrote:Tinsley, I am not on your wagon, nor have I ever even voted for you. Are you so convinced that I am scum that you associate all possible evil behaviours with me? Don't believe the hype- I don't eat babies either
Fark - in post 624 you say that Mac makes a good point in post 622. Does that mean you're leaning more toward believing Walnut is scum, or that you're leaning more toward believing I'm town? Or both?-
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Walnut - You just used your own quotes to prove Riot and myself right. Look at your quotes in 463, 501, 522, and 544. You never questioned Thesp on his investigation while some of us found it scummy. You never provided your thoughts on it until later when I asked. If Thesp was your number one suspect, why did you wait so long to provide your thoughts on his investigation?-
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I'd still like to see that speech. Charter - with the recent developments between LG and Fark, do you still think they are both scum? I think this is more proof that Fark is trying to get any lynch besides Walnut, but it's making me wonder whether or not LG is scum.charter wrote:I actually had a big speech questioning Fark, but decided I'd just take the vote for you and not care about his justification. Fark's vote is horrible, but I will deal with that later (after you are lynched).-
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I don't have enough time to address everything that's been asked of me right now, but I will address the most pressing question:
They've both done things that have piqued my scumdar, but because of their little fight on page 26, I'm starting to have doubts they are both scum. Because I continue to believe Fark wants the easiest lynch possible (notice he switched his vote back to me when my bandwagon started gaining steam) I think he's the best lynch, and that's where my vote is going to stay.charter wrote:Tinsley, your last post says you don't think Fark and LG are scumbuddies, but your one before it says you'd be ok with a lynch of one or the other. Which is it? If you think it's just one of them is scum, which one?-
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Tinsley regarding Thesp wrote:I'm just pointing out that since you've joined the game, you've been pointing fingers at myself and Fark without trying to build a case. If you're going to accuse Fark/farside for that reason, it's only right that we look at you for the same reason.
That’s the only reason you’ve given for suspecting Fark, so if there’s another reason, what is it? While we're on the subject, what scumhunting have you done?Thesp wrote:farside22 didn't scumhunt. Sorry, Farkshinsoup, that you inherited an already-caught scum role.
You said you weren’t wild about Walnut’s proposed lynch while earlier in the game you said you didn’t mind the Walnut hate. What made you change your mind?Thesp wrote:What was your question about Walnut?
I don’t like the fact that he seems to just jump on whatever bandwagon is most popular. I also didn’t like how he jumped off the charter bandwagon after it got called out (as did Fark). But I would feel more comfortable lynching Fark.Thesp wrote:Tinsley, what do you think of Lord Gurgi?
Fark – In post 632 you said you were going to keep looking at me. Did you find something that made you want to change your vote back to me? You think that both I and LG OMGUS’d you, what made you decide I was more lynch worthy?
charter – You stated in post 608 that you think Fark is just a townie that is wrong in his assessment of the game, but your most recent post suggests that you think he could be scum, are you starting to change your mind on him?-
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So you’re voting me because I decided not to vote for someone I didn’t find scummy, and MY argument is crappy?
By the way my crappy argument/prediction is looking like it’s coming true. You’ve got your loyal followers (camn and Walnut) on my bandwagon now. With charter doing a reread, ShadowGirl set to return any day now, and Thesp more than willing to drop the hammer, it looks like you might get someone other than Walnut lynched. Nice work scum!
Walnut – What made you change your mind on me?-
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Post 573 was my initial reaction to Fark, at the time, I really didn't suspect him as post 565 says.charter wrote:I don't like how Tinsley doesn't vote fark in 573, Tinsley, why did you not vote Fark then?
It wasn't until after post 573 that I started thinking about what had happened with Walnut/Fark's wagon on you, the fact that SG was going to be gone for several days, Thesp's assessment of me, and the fact that you had earlier said that you were tempted to vote me. It seemed convenient that Fark's reread resulted in (weak) evidence against the next easiest lynch.-
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That was in reference to you following his suspicion on both charter and myself. I don't think you're his scumbuddy, but I'm almost certain Walnut is. You seem suspicious of his bandwagon on me, so what do you think of Fark?camn wrote:You think I am Fark's follower? Please explain why.
I interpreted this as: "I think Walnut is scum with Fark, but I'm not as certain on him as I am on Fark and LG." Is that right?charter wrote:I don't want to lynch walnut today. There's reasonable doubt in my head that he's scum....Walnut stands a good chance of being scum.
The reason I ask is that I don't think a deadline is necessary. There are six of us with votes on either Fark or Walnut. I think they're scumbuddies, and you seem to as well. I think it's just a matter of those of us suspicious one or the other getting on the same page. I'd prefer a Fark lynch and it sounds like you and Thesp would as well. Riot and Mac - What do you think of Fark?
LG - What do you think of Walnut?-
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Tinsley wrote:That’s the only reason you’ve given for suspecting Fark, so if there’s another reason, what is it?
CF Riot already mentioned it, but yes this question was in regards to you saying you had other reasons for suspecting Fark. So what are they? I can't read your mind.Thesp wrote:Perhaps you should answer these questions for yourself, and get back to me?
Tinsely wrote:While we're on the subject, what scumhunting have you done?
I'll address it if we're both still alive D3. I think it would be a distraction now. We've limited the D2 lynches to Fark, myself, LG, and Walnut, I think we should focus on the four of us.Thesp wrote:Isn't that a question for you to answer?
I'm still waiting to hear from LG on what he thinks of Walnut. It looks like Fark also missed Riot's question about what he thinks of Walnut.
Right now I'd rather see a Fark or Walnut lynch. I still have some doubts about LG.-
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I actually think LG and charter are onto something, not the fact that LG and I are a scumpair, but that we could be getting bamboozled into thinking Walnut is scum. Charter look who has been pushing the Walnut bandwagon the hardest - Mac. If everyone is being "bamboozled" into believing Walnut is scum, isn't Mac the one that's doing it? I've been thinking about this since Fark's claim, here's where I stand:
I now trust:
Fark
Thesp
I'm pretty confident in:
camn
That leaves:
LG
SG
Walnut
Mac
CF Riot
charter
I've stated it several times, but I'll say it again, I just don't think SG is scum. That leaves five people I'm unsure of, and I just don't see Walnut having two partners out of that group. It seems obvious if Walnut were scum, that LG would be his partner, but who would be the third?
I mentioned earlier that I thought that it was the scum strategy to target Netlava on D1 because of his aggressive play style. I've been rereading Mac since LG voted for him, and while Riot really got the bandwagon started with post 173, Mac put some heat on him even before that (posts 141, 146, 160, and 170). He places a vote on Netlava after Riot and LG have. In post 278 he unvotes Netlava because Riot and Batt, who he now suspects, are both on the Netlava wagon and Walnut is considering joining it. To be fair though, he did continue to mention his suspicion of Netlava, and offered to drop the hammer.
Netlava also pointed out that Mac's playing style changed from the trainwrecked game to this one in that he was less aggressive. Mac argued that he typically doesn't play aggressive, but he was just that confident he had found scum last game. After it was brought up however, Mac has been more aggressive.
A couple other things I found that I didn't like:
- I think he's been doing some buddying up in this game. He defended LG when LG was arguing with Netlava. LG even called him out on this. He's also been buddying up to me - see posts 603 and 726 - he gives his reasoning as "I haven't seen him do anything massively scummy, and I don't see him as tied to likely scum Walnut and LG" even though several here have found at least some reason to suspect me.
- Claimed to suspect Riot during Day 1 (even jumping off Netlava's bandwagon partially because of the fact Riot was on it.) Riot disappears from his list of suspicion on Day 2. He's replaced on Mac's LoS by ShadowGirl for her lurking even though in post 323 he defended her lurking as a case of not having time.
Unvote: Walnut
Vote: Macavenger-
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I've been keeping Mac in the back of my mind since the start of D2. I was surprised to see him survive the night seeing as most here saw him as town. It's wasn't enough to build a case on, and there were others I found more suspicious. When I was reading through his posts, it just seemed like he was trying to lynch the people with the scummiest play styles - Netlava (Very aggressive, uses small details like the word tempted as scumtells), Walnut (Doesn't scum hunt just like he didn't really do it last game), ShadowGirl (tends to lurk) - because they would be the easiest targets.charter wrote:Why are you all of a sudden so suspicious of Mac? When I said that we might be getting manipulated into thinking Walnut is scum, he was the one I was thinking was doing it, but I never said that until now.
Why did you suggest I vote Fark over LG in that post of yours I quoted?
Tinsley wrote:I'd still like to see that speech. Charter - with the recent developments between LG and Fark, do you still think they are both scum? I think this is more proof that Fark is trying to get any lynch besides Walnut, but it's making me wonder whether or not LG is scum.charter wrote:Why did you suggest I vote Fark over LG in that post of yours I quoted?
Where in that quote did I suggest that you vote Fark over LG? I honestly wanted your opinion on the possibility of Fark and LG both being scum, then provided my interpretation of that argument.
I interpreted this as LG or Tinsley or both are bamboozling us into thinking Walnut is scum.charter wrote:I'd like to revise my LoS
1- LG
2- Tinsley
3- Walnut/most everyone else
I'm not so sure Walnut is scum, I think we might have gotten bamboozeled into thinking that.
Tinsley wrote:I actually think LG and charter are onto something, not the fact that LG and I are a scumpair, but that we could be getting bamboozled into thinking Walnut is scum. Charter look who has been pushing the Walnut bandwagon the hardest - Mac. If everyone is being "bamboozled" into believing Walnut is scum, isn't Mac the one that's doing it?
There was only one if there, and that was in regards to charter's statement. My suspicion of Walnut mostly came from his history with Fark (both being on the bandwagons for Netlava, charter, and myself/Fark trying to get any lynch besides Walnut). While I don't think Fark's claim clears Walnut, it's made me reevaluate everything. Charter - if you believed we were being bamboozled by Mac, why didn't you say so? Do you think we are being bamboozled by a townie?Mac wrote:There are a good amount of if's here. Why are you suddenly so certain that both Walnut is town, and that I'm scum pushing a wagon on him, rather than town doing so? Pushing the wagon of the person you find scummiest is not a scumtell.
Right. Obviously I know where I stand and no one else does. But I was expecting to be lynched (and still do), then I'll be out of the equation, and I hope everyone will keep this in mind then.CF Riot wrote:The logic that takes Walnut out of the picture is good, but the detail that is left out is Tinsley himself should still be on that list of suspects.
It would have to be two out of: Riot, charter, and LG. Right now I'm leaning toward charter and LG.CF Riot wrote:Tinsley, following your own train of thought, if Mac is scum what two buddies could you pull from that list?
I don't really think the bandwagon got moving that quickly. It's three votes, and two of them were on Fark who just claimed doc.LG wrote:Did Macavenger just become the vote leader? I do not like how quickly this thing is moving.
I think that's a bad idea. I think we'd just get caught up in analyzing each claim trying to decide if it's a lie or not. How would you prove it? I think it would just be a WIFOM situation.Fark wrote:I think we should mass claim.-
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Thus why I said it wasn't enough to build a case on. You asked why I was all of a sudden suspicious of Mac. That's only where it started. It's not what I based my whole case around.charter wrote:More speculation, that's a terrible reason to suspect someone. Living through N1?? I think you might actually be scum Tinsley.vote Tinsley
I'm the manipulative one? You're totally twisting my words here and in the quote above.charter wrote:You're casting doubt as to whether LG is scum or not. Coupled with the both of them are unlikely to be scum you hint at with your question, the only thing for someone to infer is that Fark is more likely to be scum and LG is the pick for town. This is the manipulative post I was referring to (there could be others, I haven't gone back over Tinsley too thoroughly).
Then as a townie isn't it your responsibility to put these ideas out there for consideration? Even if you had nothing else against Mac, shouldn't you have said something, or were you afraid you would get lynched?charter wrote:I purposely didn't say who I thought was misleading us (I'm not going to type bamboozled anymore). I had no case against Mac, and nothing to show that he was purposely misleading anyone about Walnut. I'm not even sure that someone is misleading us, but the more I think about lynching Walnut, the less good the idea sounds. This leads me to believe that the original case against him (back on D1) was weak and fabricated. Me and Mac were the ones gunning for Walnut yesterday (was Riot too?).
That's your opinion that NK speculation would have been WIFOM. I wasn't the only one who thought that it could help find scum.charter wrote:It's ironic you mention wanting to avoid WIFOM at the end of your post after how you opened up day 2 today. Not funny ironic, scum ironic. Yes, I am all for the Tinsley lynch after his less than stellar answers.-
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Charter analysis - First 10 pages. I'll work on the rest as I have time. I'm hoping to finish my charter analysis later this afternoon.
Posts 20-22: I think we all know about this series. Assumes 3 scum, then calls CF Riot out for making the same assumption in his stat about Had.
Hadhfang wrote:There could be cult leaders or survivers though, that's not above possibility. Tbh, speculation on 3rd party roles offers us no help at all, until someone makes a hint at their role if they are pro-town. Having said that Lord Guri's post was that there are likely to be either 3 scum or 3 scum and a SK, it was Charter that brought up the speculation about it.
Post 67 questions Had for flip-flopping on charter’s posts 20-22. The quote above is another example of charter twisting someone’s word against them. How was Had fishing for pro town roles? He doesn’t vote Had here, but waits until post 82 after Netlava and Walnut have expressed suspicion, and Mac voted Had.charter wrote:Fishing for pro-town roles to drop hints that you can pick up? Makes me wonder, why do you care who the pro town roles are?
Post 94 – This is a nice vague comment. He may have been setting himself up to trust/accuse someone here.charter wrote:I will be interested in seeing who the next person to vote for Had is (assuming someone does.
Post 101 – Everyone knows about this post too (Let Had live, if he isn’t NK’d we lynch him tomorrow). Votes BB for his semi-claim.
Post 117 – Reacts to Farside’s reaction to post 101 by thinking she’s scummy for pinning it on him. Fark (I think) nailed this, it’s an appeal to everyone else.charter wrote:I think you trying to pin this on me is scummy. What does everyone else think?
Post 154 – Calls out Batt for his “What if Riot turns up dead as Doc?” question to Netlava regarding Riot’s “Breadcrumb”. I actually thought it was a good question, but I’m noticing that charter has definitely trying to spread suspicion among nearly everyone. I think someone mentioned that as a scumtell in this game. The only people I don’t think he has cast suspicion toward were Netlava (whom many here thought was the scummiest D1), Mac, and I think Shadow Girl (but I’m not certain on that one).
Post 156 – Further defends Netlava on Batt’s question “hesitating to say loaded question”
Post 172 - The first case of charter becoming aggressive towards others when they accuse him in this game. You shouldn’t play this game if you can’t handle answering questions.charter wrote:If you now say that I'm further directing people, I'm going to explode. I'm not telling anyone to do anything, just explaining what I assumed obvious and that everyone thought.
I didn’t catch this in my Mac analysis but he defends charter in post 182 when Farside is questioning him.
Post 235 – Had questions charter on his “I’ll be interested in seeing who the next person to vote Had is” comment. Charter replies with “It wouldn't have given me any more than everyone else. I simply would have found it interesting.” So why ask the question?
Don't worry, you're safe today. I'm not so sure about D3 though.charter in post 888 wrote:Rich-
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