Open 62 - Strawberry Mafia - Game Over! before 568
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Snix
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Snix Goon
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Snix Goon
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Snix Goon
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It is anything but random from my part.neko2086 wrote:[quote="xtoxm]
Why Scigatt for a random wagon?
Discussing that right now would defeat the purpose. The best thing to do is let it happen and draw conclusions later.[/quote]snix wrote: What kind of information are you hoping to get out of scigatt by wagoning him?
Or you could not be so vague and explain some things.-
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So you expect us all to blindly follow you on a wagon against scigat? Can you at least give me a reason as to why him? I understand the not telling the scum the plan thing but it's not like you're anymore trustworthy then the rest of us. Others can follow if they want, I wont.neko2086 wrote:Taking the opportunity to fix my tags. @ tags
The only thing I'm willing to explain at the moment is why I feel a wagon on Scigatt is justified. That should be pretty obvious though. What information I hope to gain from the wagon should not be discussed. We don't want to tell the scum what we are or aren't expecting them to say/do, do we? Unless of course you're scum, then you'd love for me to tell you all that. Wagon (or not) now, conclusions later, mkay? I'll let ya know when I've found what I'm looking for.Snix wrote:
Or you could not be so vague and explain some things.neko2086 wrote:
It is anything but random from my part.xtoxm wrote: Why Scigatt for a random wagon?
Discussing that right now would defeat the purpose. The best thing to do is let it happen and draw conclusions later.snix wrote: What kind of information are you hoping to get out of scigatt by wagoning him?-
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Snix Goon
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Vote: Cephrir
Cephrir has, to me, done some very suspicious things. Most of his posts just seem very aggressive. I understand that aggression can help at times but he seems like he is just picking to pick. He seems to have hitched himself early on to the Scigatt bandwagon and followed Neko's lead, not contributing much to the inquisition except making an QFT post and leaving it at that. And the wagon had run it's course he quickly pulled a 180 and started claiming that Neko seemed to be trying to lead the town. That also seemed to be the most content filled post he's had so far. After that he carried on a pointless argument for much of page 4.
Why, Cephrir, carry on an argument you knew was pointless?-
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Snix Goon
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Another, mildly more well founded, possibility: a person who doesn't like his hand forced on a whim.Near wrote: A possibility: a scum trying to act overly-righteous and townie. To me, you over-reacted to someone who "announced" that he's just trying apply some pressure. At the same time you didn't FOS him other than mildly qualifying his alignment as "it's not like you're anymore trustworthy than the rest of us". Doesn't this sound just too "I want to act like a townie" act.
Unvote
Vote Snix
He, out of nowhere, brought up the idea of the Sciggat-wagon. All I really wanted to know was if he had any foundation for getting someone near-lynch. So I don't think I over reacted.
Other than the fact that he seemed to realize he had a small following and took advantage of it I had nothing to be suspicious of. I stated my displeasure with the wagon, not the wagoner.
If I wanted to act like a townie wouldn't the better response be: "yeah, but lets keep him away from L-2 just in case." I want to act like me, it's worked in the past I doubt it will fail me now.
[quote"Near"]At the same time, you ignored my comment "let's get sniggat to L-2". Why? [/quote]
Because I've given up on commenting on every attempt you make at trying to hunt scum by being scum. If I were scum I'd know you weren't scum, right? So, wouldn't I dive in for the easy kill?-
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Cephrir wrote:Way to not acknowledge that I just responded to your case, Snix...
You Were Next. I figured I'd try to stifle a vote on me before turning my attention back to you.
I'm not trying to connect you to Neko. Far from it; because Neko, ATM, seems very pro-town. What I was trying to do was point out the fact that you just seemed to have found an easy ride to pro-towndom and hoped on. That's all.Cephrir wrote: I love pressuring people to get reactions. It works really well. And by the way, agreeing with people (especially when they're so right it hurts) is not a scumtell. Especially if that player isn't dead and therefore more than likely isn't scum. You can't really criticize connections until/unless you know an alignment involved.
It's not the stances you took it's that fact that it was really obvious he was taking us by the hand and dragging us along before the wagon had ended and yet you jumped on without saying anything about it. When finally the wagon ends you seem to have a sudden revelation.Cephrir wrote:I never pulled a 180. The two stances, that scigatt could use some pressure and that neko's tone was that of someone trying to lead the town, are not contradictory or even related. Just because I agreed with neko earlier doesn't mean I have to continue to do so for the rest of the game. If someone you think is town does something a bit suspicious, are you going to not call them out on it because you think they're town? Not so much.
But you criticize others for it.Cephrir wrote:And the fact that that's my most contributive post doesn't matter. It's page 4, calm down.
Because it was pointless that's why not. No, I'm saying it helped no one and did nothing.Cephrir wrote: Why not? Are you saying my carrying on an argument that was of little (but not no) significance is indicative of alignment? That's what it seems like, given that you start your post with a vote and follow with a list of reasons why you voted that way. And it wasn't entirely pointless, anyway. You'll notice I stopped arguing when I determined that it was disintegrating into a simple difference of opinion.-
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Yes, it seems a lot of people seem to have crawled into holes after the excitement died down. You on the other hand seemed to have crawled out. Anyways I think Near's disappearing act could be from him trying not to implicate himself farther. Or, like me, just not seeing anything really to comment on. I think right now the talkative people have picked a target and are just waiting for responses from them. The people being targeted have 'skipped town'. Anyways.Marmalade wrote:Also, does anyone else get the impression that since the beginning escapade, Near has been playing *very* quietly, not saying much, staying relatively in the background? Maybe its just me, but I'm sensing something is amiss.
Near, I think you still have a vote on me. Any reasons?-
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He answered my points to my satisfaction. So I left it at that. I didn't really have much to go on other then a feeling and those few small points. I know gut votes and very substantial so I tried to look for reasons why. My vote stays because the feeling stays.neko2086 wrote:
I'd agree, but I think his question is in need of being answered. Snix's argument on Cephrir wasn't incredibly strong, and I'm not sure he ever answered Cephrir when he asked how his arguments actually pointed to him being scum. If Snix thinks Cephrir is scum, he ought to be telling us why so as to be productive, rather than just be voting for the sake of voting.However, I am curious about the fact Cephrir ignores what has been happening recently (e.g. regarding Yvonne) and has merely questioned Snix's vote in his most recent post.
Although Xtoxm's mild push for a deadline which would result in a no-lynch day one could possible hurt town just as much as a mis-lynch, if I'm not mistaken. Why, other than speed (not a very good reason IMO) would you want a deadline?-
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Snix Goon
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This gave me a really odd feeling. You seem to like killing momentum don't you? Give me a good reason for replacing her rather than lynching her?neko2086 wrote:Yvonne, why do you feel that your vote and lack of consideration for any other lynch candidate is reasonable contribution for today? What do you think you are accomplishing, exactly? How do you expect the town to react to this?
In the meantime, I wouldn't suggest putting more votes on her. I personally would like to get her talking, and if she refuses, I'd like her to be replaced. I do not see her play helpful whether she is town or scum.-
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This, Yvonee. This quote right here makes me want to lynch you. If you were just inactive/lurking because you can't think of things to say or because you aren't very talkative I wouldn't be so gun ho about it. But, you seem to think that placing a vote on one person and disappearing as contribution for an entire day. It doesn't work like that. You have to explain more than because he started a random wagon.YvonneSeer wrote:My vote is my contribution for the day. More of you should be like Scigatt...
He's been more Pro-town then you. At least by talking he gives us information about him if not other people by their responses to him. You too have been helpful but for very different reasons. If you are scum then you might have just fleshed out both of your scum buddies.-
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My rebuttal, also. HEY LOOK AT ME I'M POSTING.
If I didn't want people to notice me, if I truly was trying to keep attention off myself I wouldn't really attack a person who almost every one else thinks is town. That person being you. That would be like playing hide and go seek in a neon orange jacket.neko2086 wrote: Snix seems to be approaching this game with more concern about keeping as much attention off himself as possible.
Why wouldn't I defend myself before going on the attack? To actually get people to listen to my ideas they shouldn't really think I'm scum trying to throw sand in their eye.-Early on, he made sure to defend himself before addressing Cephrir's response to his case, which isn't all too terrible, but somewhat important to note.
-He was voting Cephrir for a long time without much reason, which looks like voting for the sake of voting and looking active.
My Cephrir vote was a gut feeling. I figured if I had a vote on him he might do something to reassure that feeling. Something he wouldn't have done had he felt safe.
Why not appease the lady? If she doesn't want to act town then we shouldn't treat her like town.-When Yvonne made her less than impressive entrance, he criticizes her and says
which begs the question--if you think she's trying to get lynched, then why would you vote for her?If you aren't trying to get lynched then I don't know what you're doing.
I figured Izzy's response fit my feeling well. An I agree post didn't seem necessary.-Snix accuses me of trying to stifle discussion and asks for a good reason to replace rather than lynch. I respond and ask for a good reason to lynch rather than replace. He never answers.
Well, lets say Yvonne is scum. Now she seems to be speeding to the lynching party where she is the main attraction. If I were her scum friends I want very much to not have that happen just for the safety in numbers factor. Better a D1 town lynch then a D1 scum lynch right? So what can I do. I could defend her and hope to god she doesn't get lynched or I could push replacement for her. While still sticking in the occasional jab in case I don't get my way.-Rather than answering my question, he tries to draw a connection between myself, scigatt, and yvonne, asking if anyone else sees the connection. Keep in mind that he never explains what connectionhesees. So Snix, could you explain your rationale there?
Then scigatt post his 'I agree' and I have the weird feeling I've stumbled upon the holy grail of scum hunting. Now if you couldn't see that connection then It makes me even more suspicious. But only a bit.
Warning Sarcasm Below
Now, your whole case seems to boil down to one thing. I don't want people to think I'm scum. I mean, why else would I defend myself and try to keep suspicion off of me. That seems like it's an obvious scum tell right? I mean it's not like that's half the job of town.-
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I see what you did there. I'm not going to vote you or scigatt based on the fact Yvonne is scum if I don't know that 100%. I figure, work your way up the chain.neko2086 wrote: You're totally right. You would be voting somebody who everyone else thinks is scum...
It's the single-mindedness combined with the avoiding of the thread and the self-destructive nature.The problem is that she appears to be deliberately acting scummy. I don't like it either, and I've outlined why, but that in itself makes a pretty weak case, imo. If you're going to support lynching her, I would hope you've got more than 'well, she asked for it.'
Or, that's what you want us to think!! (JK)As far as the Yvonne-scum possibility... a self-destructing scum is actually a wonderful bussing opportunity, not a situation in which you'd ask for replacement.
It's just a feeling backed up with a little evidence. Hence the asking if others felt/saw it too. I'd be more sure if I knew the alignment of Yvonne but that wont come unless we get a lynch.Now, what I really wanted to know about your case was if you had drawn this connection from recent posts or from the whole thread. How sure are you that you've found the entire scum-team from a few posts?-
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Near, you're part of the problem of the slow moving game. Your vote hasn't changed from p2 I believe and you seem to post little in the way of discussion. What is your take on the Yvonne incident or do you see anyone else more scummy, ie me seeing as how your vote is still on me?Near wrote:Responding to a prod.
I'm not sure what to make of this game. Everyone seems to be playing safe. And many have requested for a replacement. I did a quick re-read and don't really have any idea. Therefore, I agree with xtomx and request we get a deadline of something like 3 weeks. This might not be the best thing for town, but I am wiling to yield a small disadvantage to get this game moving.-
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Yvonne's request for replacement is odd. She had no problem with what she was doing right? She didn't think she wasn't contributing. Then why would she want to replace herself when she was active-ish and not in the wrong from her POV. Other than to do exactly what I said the replacement would do: take away the pressure and maybe even rectify the horrible play she's been giving us by making us all take the replacement as an entirely new person. I'm with Xtoxm on this one. It bugs me that she just gave into neko's wish for replacement.-
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That's not really what I meant. I was looking for something more than a vote. Actual reasons might be nice. Something the rest of us can look on and go: "oh, wow. I never thought of that" or "that doesn't seem right" even "I'm glad he agrees with us" would have worked.Near wrote:Responding to a prod.
Unvote, Vote: The Admiral
Let's stir things up a bit. I will try to come up with why, but defend yourself you scum!
You, sir, are going on my list.-
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It's reasonable to backlash at the people who want you dead but you're predesesor had dug herself a deep hole and you aren't doing much to try and get yourself out of it. IMOEctomancer wrote: @Xtoxm - Why don't you just wear a T-shirt that says "I'm scum!"? Snix, you could wear the T-shirt that says "I'm with the goon" with an arrow that points to Xtoxm.-
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Marmalade wrote:2.Snix and Xtoxm, why are you still voting Ectomancer?
Just because the replacement is smarter scum than the replaced doesn't mean he still isn't scum. And his posts really throw me off, but that's probably more of a personal thing. I'd also like to point out, although this could just be coincidence, that the Yvonne(ectomancer), Neko, Scigatt trio seems to all have jumped on Xtoxm.
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I know it is, it just keeps cropping up. I don't want to be right by some horribly lucky chance and still ignore signs.Cephrir wrote:
Snix, that trio theory of yours is positively silly.Snix wrote:I'd also like to point out, although this could just be coincidence, that the Yvonne(ectomancer), Neko, Scigatt trio seems to all have jumped on Xtoxm.-
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3 people doesn't seem useless no matter how 'insubstantial' they're argument may be. The problem is that Yvonne is not here to answer questions I'm sure everyone wanted answered. Why? Because some few people decided it be a nice thing to do and go and get her replaced. She didn't need a replacement, she was there. She picked up prods, responded, wasn't inactive. Just lurking. When the pressure got too much though she was replaced.neko2086 wrote: Snix, xtoxm, james, at some point, you'll have to make an argument that Ecto (not just Yvonne) is scum. Otherwise, your votes are useless. Yvonne can no longer answer questions.
I blame this mostly on you, because as a really loud member of the town you hold a bit of sway. So when you say she should be replaced it makes her being replaced a good thing. It's now what the 'town' wants instead of a ploy to remove pressure. Now her replacement is doing better in some cases but he has a bad vibe.
I am, I'll admit, voting Ecto because of everything Yvonne did. But I still feel she should have been lynched rather than replaced. And I'm not going to give Ecto a clean slate.
Back to you though. I agree with ThAdmiral. You never really take a lead you just prod and wait for the rest of the group to pick up the trail. Take a stance. I don't mean attack Xtoxm every single post but maybe move on to other people. If you think he's scum. If you're sure. Then put pressure on someone else vote-wise and keep building a case against Xtoxm and whoever you think is next scummiest.-
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@marmalade: I'll try. Your post against me seemed to be based on the fact that you thought I was targeting Neko for putting pressure on Yvonne, while I had been doing the same. It is in fact for the exact opposite reason that I voted Neko. Neko seemed to be relieving pressure by asking for a replacement for her.
@neko: I'm not going to respond to attempts to work me into a corner. If I respond one way I'm sure you'll have "countless" accounts of me being contradictory. As that's the angle you seem to be playing.-
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PBP analysis of Ecto.
Post 291: Come in, odd comment about manipulation.
post 293: Votes Xtoxm, decent as he is defending himself. Points at Xtoxm and shouts 'he is scum because of what he said.' Doesn't really clarify what part. Might be going with the general dislike of xtoxm by town.
post 297: Defends himself well in first paragraph. Goes on to say that Yvonne wasn't in a hole. Asks me to give dimensions of the hole. Finds a MD topic that Yvonne might have been following. Seems to be trying to make Yvonnes actions look less scummy by giving them a pro-town application and then taking on the fact she just wasn't very good.
post 300: says this: [quote=ecto]Keep playing. You'll find out eventually. Are you wondering which way you need to lean to maintain your balancing act?[/quote]
Seems to be dodging the question about ThAdmiral. Attacks Sciggat for some odd reason.
post 302: when Cephrir weighs in about post 300 ecto seems to back peddle a bit but still doesn't really answer the question.
post 312: Ecto fos's dizzy foo inconsistency. Tells dizzy to stop hunting cop and then goes on to say that dizzy shouldn't vote for him because Yvonne fit her description of cop. Basically equating himself to be cop.
post 317: Says he wasn't claiming. Tries to link two things that don't make sense: a cop changing up strategy while trying to be singular in an attack and a cop knowing someone is scum and looking scummy in his/her attack. Don't see the connection. Regales us with some story about him hunting cop-claimers. Which seems mildly inconsistent with his no hunting cop argument.
post 321: either fos's himself for being too aggressive (I seriously doubt that) or misinterprets sciggat's dislike of the way he went after dizzy. I'm going with the second one because I'm sure he's smarter than that.
post 329: Mentions he hasn't done a full read through. Goes on to say his vote might look OMGUS but isn't. Votes dizzy. Puts he instead of she. (doesn't really matter IMO)
post 334: Devotes to paragraphs to bash Dizzy's dislike of being called a guy. Doesn't really address the real issue around it and instead just tries to make dizzy look like some over-reacting girl.
Summary
-Ecto likes to dodge questions
-Makes connections where there are none
-bread crumbs cop after telling dizzy to stop hunting cop.
-seems to generally dislike sciggat for no stated reason.
-bashes dizzy for being prideful of gender.
This is my case against ecto. I'm pretty sure he's scum. However Xtoxm continues to dig himself deeper. Once I see a vote count I probably will vote him. Ecto won't go anywhere.-
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I'm pretty sure everyone's chimed in and no one's claimed yet.. Odd time to claim though Ecto. I was really sure about you. Meh. I'll just wait for ThAdmiral to respond.DizzyIzzyB13 wrote:Ah, yes. The cop claim. How... expected. I eagerly await the counter-claim that seems the next logical step, so that we may decide which cop claimer is real.-
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My motives were the same as your's James, I was looking for scum. Just a little bit harder than you. Isn't part of this game looking for connections? You have to admit you thought Yvonne was scum until Ecto replaced right? So, if she was scum, and we lynched her where would we be at then? We have to find connections. James, you're back-peddling so fast I'm afraid you might trip. I was wrong about Yvonne. But I stuck to my intuition. And when the people asked for a case against Ecto I got one, a solid one I believe.
What I want to know is why everyone seems so gun-ho about hanging me from the gallows.
p.s @Xtoxm: this is the part of the game where lynching town, even if they're letting the rest of us down, is not such a good idea.-
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The problem I see right now is that the town got split during day 1. Those that believed Yvonne was cop and those that believed Yvonne was scum. I have decided that, unless she does something horribly, horribly scummy or I'm really convinced she's scum I'm not going to vote dizzy. Why? Because she is being attacked for exactly the same thing I did and I feel I wasn't in the wrong for my suspicions. Right now her posts seem like someone who was hit across the face with a shovel and is trying to regain balance while the people with the shovel advance farther.
The push from cephrir and xtoxm to lynch dizzy seem very anti-town. And xtoxm was trying this yesterday too with the Yvonne wagon. Overall Xtoxm's play hasn't been very helpful. I'd be willing to lynch xtoxm today.
vote:xtoxm-
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What, really, has xtoxm done to prove his townie-ness. If he had had his way we'd be down a cop and a townie going into day 2 with nothing other than the yvonne wagon which insofar seems to be at least two town(based on the fact I know I'm town and dizzy posts at twilight don't seem like that of a dead scum.) He has been pushing for quick lynches and quick days.
I stayed on ecto because someone had to. He claimed at an odd time, there was almost instant backing from people who I thought were scumish, and personally I didn't buy it.-
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We can continue this now, I don't mind.Xtoxm wrote:Anyway, we'll continue this tomorrow, shall we?
Clearly i'm not going to be NKed as i'm you're lynch target.
Since when did the truth become horrible?
It is though. Day one started off with you giving short responses and pushing for a deadline. Then you went after yvonne (she was taking a lot of flak) and rode her until ecto replaced. After that you helped lynch ThAdmiral. Then you jumped on Dizzy (again she was taking a lot of flak) and pushed for her death while letting others make the case.
Even now you have yet to post anything real against me. That's why I requested that you be the first to post a case. Think of it as me helping you out.-
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First off I'll respond to your post, then I'll look at the people you've asked me to.
The Me & Near thingwas, I believe, just his play style conflicting with mine.
The Me & Yvonne thing.
You have to admit that there were really only two ways of looking at what she was doing: 1. She is really bad at being cop or 2. She is really bad at being scum. So far all the lynches/voting after ThAdmiral have been towards people who went with option 2. Two of those people even, after the claim, went along with the wagon. I'm pretty sure the only reason I'm alive right now is because dizzy was an easier target for the scum to quick lynch. Both Cephrir and Xtoxm wanted to kill her quickly without much discussion (which you agree is good for town), but I digress.
You started asking for her replacement in 217 after she had said all she was going to do that day was vote. She seemed to either want to be lynched or be replaced and you gave her the second option. I didn't see then and really don't see now why you would favor replacement over a lynch. You have to understand that I made the connection between you three because she seemed scummy to me, you gave her an easy way out and she personally put scigatt on a pedestal. Now I'm almost positive that neither of you two are scum.
After Ecto replaced you asked for a case against him, which I did give and which you quoted right below your statement saying I didn't. I still felt Yvonne was scum and Ecto just gave off a vibe (horrible reasons I understand that) that he was too. I must admit he replaced at a bad time for the wrong person and had a lot against him and had he not claimed we might have lynched someone else and then have had him NKed. I also must admit that I really had my vote still on him because I was way to prideful to drop it and if he happened to be lying be able to point at my vote and say "Told you so".
I never mentioned ThAdmiral because, like I said, I had nothing to comment on. I don't see how that was so bad given the way he played and the amount he talked.
The Dizzy and Me thing
I believed she was town. She followed the same logic I did on the yvonne/ecto debacle and, though her methods were very agressive, finally did come around and vote ThAdmiral. Which put me off when everyone then turned around and wanted to kill her instead of me or JTP. Especially Xtoxm, whom had been on our side in the ecto wagon until he claimed.
Cephrir
So far today and yesterday cephrir has been right behind xtoxm on pushing lynches. He's been giving out excuses left and right for xtoxm's rushed behavior.
Xtoxm
xtoxm's been riding other peoples coat tails since he got here. I gave him 2 days to come up with even a small case against me and he didn't. It's not like he wasn't on the site because he's posted elsewhere, in other games. He couldn't do it for a case against ecto or yvonne. Not even one for dizzy, which you claim was the scummiest person yesterday. He's always been pushing fast lynches, twice now on confirmed townies.
The fact that you didn't even mention the fact that even today he hasn't said one word of logic against me bothers me a bit. The closest he got was saying that I defended someone I thought was town. That doesn't seem so wrong with me. Just like you defended yvonne when clearly she was without a leg to stand on.
Sovote: xtoxm.
I hope that if by some odd chance I do die today I would like xtoxm lynched tomorrow as my dieing wish.-
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Snix Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 376
- Joined: August 5, 2007
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Snix Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 376
- Joined: August 5, 2007
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