Open 65 - Mini Love (Over!) before 578

[Sethaniel]

/confirm

[Sethaniel]

ABR, do you have a reason for liking Jex? If you can give me a good one, I'll vote for her.

[Sethaniel]

Ah, wait. So you like her personally, not like her as a candidate for lynch.

Or, you believe people who think like you do should be lynched.

Which is it, ABR? do you want me to vote for Jex?

[Sethaniel]

You're just jealous they look so much better on me.

[Sethaniel]

OMGUS Jex. I'm just talking.

[Sethaniel]

Fine, scorn my affection. See if I care.

vote ABR

Oh, I guess I do care. . .

[Sethaniel]

@Elderad

Incidentally, my question to ABR ("do you feel lucky?") was kinda serious, but I don't want an answer anymore.

unvote
vote Seth

for asking ABR where to place your vote. It's trying to absolve yourself of responsibility for your actions.

So, it's okay for you to ask questions regarding voting, but not for me? We're both going the same place with those questions.

In general: I wasn't necessarily going to just vote whatever ABR said. I wanted to see what his response would be. Did he have any particular reason to vote for anyone, or was he just trying to bait someone into arguing with him, so he could push for a lynch? His response turned out to be voting for me, without giving any reason at all.

[Sethaniel]

Defense of my actions:

Newbie. Stupid newbie. Check my join date.

I really did just want to see what response would come of it. ABR keeps insistently making "I love Jex" posts, which is a little weird. Obviously, I didn't think people would use it as a reason to lynch me. A lot of people were saying a lot of stupid things, and no one seems to have singled them out for death. (Specifically, elderad admits he was kind of serious in asking ABR about his vote, then jumps on the BW to lynch me.)

Well, if I die, when I'm proven townie, I hope it helps you find the real scum.

I'm guessing the scum will just claim that I was playing anti-town and deserved to die for being unhelpful anyway. (I can make a great argument against myself.)

@dahill Again: Newbie, stupid stupid newbie, doesn't know what's acceptable discussion and what's going too far.

[Sethaniel]

I expect an apology from ABR when it turns out I'm town.

Actually, no I don't, not given what I've read of his previous play. Or that manifesto on how to catch scum that he posted in the other forum. Let's see. . .

Ignore other players comments if they don't get you closer to lynching your target. It's only half evidence, the other half is accusation. Make it clear that you will never give up until your target is lynched- every day, every post.

That about right, ABR?

I don't really know what gave you the idea that you are a great scum hunter anyway. The (completed) game I read that you played in, the first thing you did was kill the cop because you were sure he was scum.

Your manifesto isn't about how to find scum, it's about how to control the lynch.

I'm not voting / lynching anyone but Sethaniel today, and I will act in self-destructive manners for the town until Sethaniel is lynched.

If that's enough of an argument for people, then I guess I can't win.

Claim vanilla townie, since that's exactly what I am.

[Sethaniel]

I said I would lead the Sethaniel wagon, so Vote: Sethaniel

Sigh. After the way you deftly dissected Yoshi's arguments, I was hoping there'd at least be some sort of reasoning from you.

[Sethaniel]

@Korts: I wasn't "expecting" you to "give me a free pass." I don't even really know what you mean by that. I thought it was good play, the way you went after Yoshi. Voting me because you promised ABR you would is a stupid reason that doesn't help the town at all. So, I'm glad to see you gave the town a nice PBPA of why you think I'm scum.

A few things regarding the vanilla claim:
Wasn't Yoshi the first one to say it was a bad thing for me to claim vanilla?
Why isn't anyone discussing ABR's doc claim? Wait, farside mentioned it, before the NK.
I think it's pretty well assumed at the beginning of each game that everyone is tacitly claiming vanilla townie.

I thought there was a very good chance I would be lynched. From what I've seen of ABR's play, it seemed like he would follow through on his threat to harm the town unless he got his way. Since I am on the town's side, I don't want to see that happen. I'm not going to vote myself, or quit the game in frustration, but I will do anything I can to try and show that he was wrong.

Okay- now:

this is setting up the Day 2 lynch on Day 1 without reference to any information we gain from the lynch and NK.

Total agreement here.

Why why why if I were scum, would I kill farside?

I voted for Q-man because I did not see his comment as a joke when I'm trying to promote discussion. I felt his vote against me was a reach at nothing and voted for him because his comment made no sense. How do you know if he was joking? I was trying to promote discussion instead of the random BW comments going on and he just off shoots at the hip for a first comment and vote I found it odd coming from him.

I read Sethaniel comments and I felt he was fishing for information. It was his question about what Albert liked about Jex that through me.

Here is one problem I had which was with dahil.

Quote:
oops sorry everyone i had thought she was asking ABR why he claimed..but yeah Seth claiming is definitely scummy when he's only at L-4. he had no need to claim right then


dahill1 wrote:
it wasn't necessary for ABR to claim so i'm not going to automatically believe it, of course. he just did it to prove a point, but which really doesn't prove anything because even if he was the doc he couldn't know anyone's alignment but his own. however, this doesn't really make me any more or less suspicious of ABR because this is how he always is


Why is ABR okay to claim with the same number of votes against him the Seth?

Yoshi here is the problem about 3 times now you have mentioned a counterclaim. The problem is if Albert is scum he is trying to get the doc to out himself so he could be claiming to do such. For you to keep pressing that point sounds more like you are looking to see if Albert is telling the truth and scum will take care of him if they believe he is the doctor. Your comments about taking the easy way out without realizing what people are saying looks like a pissed off scum who got caught instead of a town person who made a mistake.

Vote: Yoshi.

Seriously Albert did you really need to claim that early. Shame on you.
_________________

Farside did vote for me at one point, but also expressed suspicions of Qman and dahill. Farside even called out ABR for his Day One doc claim.

If I were scum, farside was no threat to me. I had nothing to gain by killing her, and unlike ABR or Korts, she didn't seem convinced I was scum.

The town needs to consider farside's death. It's highly unlikely the scum chose her randomly. Who profits by removing farside from the game? Why her, instead of the claimed doc?

[Sethaniel]

So, in your opinion, discussing night kills is scummy?

[Sethaniel]

Seth wrote:
So, in your opinion, discussing night kills is scummy?

Yes.

the NK doesn't help much, either. I mean, apart from the early D1 argument between farside and Qman, farside didn't pick a lot of fights.

It's okay for Korts to discuss the NK, apparently.

[Sethaniel]

There's a difference between "discussing NKs is a scumtell" and "trying to use NKs to prove protown status is a scumtell."

[Sethaniel]

vote: dahill

dahill wrote:
"i admit Seth is looking scummy and i'm considering him as a possible D3 lynch, depending on what happens today. "

You admit that Seth's scummy, therefore you will consider voting him tomorrow? Clarify this, please. You haven't expressed more than light suspicion of me, and you call Seth scummy, yet I get the vote. Is it only me, or do you see the hole in logic too? You don't want to lynch your buddy unless you really have to, is that it?

Or it's because he knows I'm town. Dahill is distancing himself from the Sethwagon, and trying to throw suspicion on its members so that when I'm proven town, they look like scum and he doesn't.

[Sethaniel]

unvote

1) I was trying to see who else jumped on a wagon with such a weak case.
2)someone specific: anyone who would accept semi-bullshit reasons or come up with bullshit to vote you.
3)I voted you because I didn't think you lynchworthy based on the small case against you, and I wanted to see who would be eager to jump on. I thought the validity of the case on you (parts of it fully valid, some parts less so) was enough to warrant impatient scum to jump on, and not yet such a strong case for town to hammer.

Vote: Sethaniel

Wait a minute! I voted for dahill before Korts. Korts's vote put dahill at L-2, in fact. The only person who jumped on the dahill wagon

after

Korts was ABR.

Korts pushes a Sethwagon, then abruptly switches to dahill, first with no reason, then giving as his reason as he didn't think he could get enough support for a Seth lynch. Then, when he gets pressured for switching his vote, he basically repeats Jex's reasoning from post 296, the difference being that Jex was the one who started the wagon, not the fourth person to jump on it.

[Sethaniel]

Korts, if you had survived, would you have campaigned against Jex with me ?

Why are you talking about him as if he's already dead? He's only at L-3.

[Sethaniel]

@korts- don't you think that would look like I was just jumping from wagon to wagon?

why are you so eager to get lynched?

[Sethaniel]

I'm not so eager to get lynched, but if that's the consensus, I'm willing to trade my life to prove the sincerity of my case against you.

How does you pushing your own wagon prove anything against me?

[Sethaniel]

I'm considering a Jex / Elderad scumduo.

Because eldarad followed Jex onto two wagons?

[Sethaniel]

@korts: your plan is to kill all the lovers to ensure that we get one scum?

[Sethaniel]

I'm just not convinced that (worst case scenario) killing three town for one scum is a good trade.

[Sethaniel]

That's twice Korts has self-voted.

[Sethaniel]

1. Mathy arguments aren't going to convince me of anything. I can't ever follow them, and consequently, I'm never convinced they actually prove what they claim to.

2. I really don't like the idea of policy lynching in general.

[Sethaniel]

So, ABR, you're against Korts' plan?

[Sethaniel]

Even if you think eldarad is town, if dahill is the treacherous lover, then they have to die.

Why should the other set of lovers claim? In case they have a member who looks scummier than dahill?

[Sethaniel]

ack, math again.

If: Dahill = scum and Korts= town

1.We lynch Dahill

Dahill dies, -1 scum
Eldarad dies, -1 town
Scum NK, -1 town
next day, we lynch a non-lover (because dahill was the treacherous lover) equal chance scum/town -1 scum/ -1 town
next night Scum NK -1 town
Total: Scum -1/-2 Town -3/-4

2.We lynch Korts

Korts dies, -1 town
Scum NK, -1 town
a. next day, we lynch dahill
dahill dies -1 scum
eldarad dies -1 town
next night Scum NK -1 town
Total: Scum -1 Town -4
b. next day, we lynch a non lover, equal chance scum/town -1 scum/ -1town
next night Scum NK -1 town
Total: Scum -1/-2 Town -5/-6


If: Dahill = town and Korts=scum

1. We lynch Dahill
Dahill dies, -1 town
Eldarad dies, -1 town
Scum NK, -1 town
a.next day, we lynch korts, -1 scum
next night scum NK -1 town
Total: Scum -1, Town -4
b. next day, we lynch the other pair of lovers, -1 scum, -1 town
next night, scum NK -1 town
Total: Scum -2, Town -5

2. We lynch Korts
korts dies, -1 scum
a. scum NK the lover pair, -2 town
next day, assume equal chance of scum/town lynch -1scum/-1 town
next night scum NK -1 town
Total: Scum -1/-2, Town -3/-4
b. scum NK someone else, -1 town
next day, assume equal chance of scum/town lynch -1 scum/-1town
next night scum NK -1 town
Total: Scum -1/-2, Town -2/-3

This is getting me nowhere. There's a lot of variables in here. I haven't even gotten doc protection figured into it.

Oh, I didn't even do if they're both town.

Anyway, seems like if one is scum and one is town, then it almost always comes down to trading 1 scum for 4 townies.

ABR, would you outline your case against armix/Jex?

[Sethaniel]

Um, no incentive? They get two townies instead of one.

Unless you're saying they're both scum?

[Sethaniel]

Making a point of trying to do the math and then failing

Hey, I

said

mathyness was not my strong point. I'd rather vote based on whether I think Korts or dahill seems scummier, anyway.

[Sethaniel]

Unless ABR and/or farside are mafia.

[Sethaniel]

But if dahill is scum, we have to lynch him.

[Sethaniel]

Ever heard of teammate bussing?

Yeah. Given the fact that Yoshi had basically said "screw you guys, I'm leaving," it's just as logical to argue that scum would jump on that wagon.

[Sethaniel]

I find it hard to believe that there were no scum on the Yoshi wagon, given all the comments by town on how insanely scummy Yoshi was.

[Sethaniel]

No one's posted since Sunday?

eldarad, why did you ask ABR why he wasn't voting for kravhen?

ABR, you've been saying Jex/armix seemed scummy almost since the beginning of the game.

that's all I've got right now.

[Sethaniel]

[quote"kravhen re: armix"]
Btw that's wishy washy. Wanting to vote without voting. It's like wanting to shoot someone, but not being the one holding the gun.
[/quote]

agree.

vote: armix

[Sethaniel]

As far as I'm concerned:

coron or kravhen must be scum.

eldarad- I'm thinking farside can't be scum b/c ABR said he protected her on the night there was no NK, and he was proven to be the doctor.

[Sethaniel]

Seth: What makes YOU believe there was a magic number of TWO scum on ABR?

Um, when did I say I thought that?

[Sethaniel]

Kravhen: happy scumday. That said, I do have to agree that #725 looks oddly like you're making a case against eldarad, whom we know is confirmed town. What is the idea behind that, anyway? Are you trying to discredit eldarad's reasoning? And, you never responded to my previous question. When did I say anything about ABR, other than variations of "OMG I hate you you bitch!" ?

[Sethaniel]

@kravhen: way back when, I thought that the NK of original farside seemed to benefit/point to Qman. Whom I just realized is Coron. So I guess I'd have to say I think Coron is most likely scum at this point.

[Sethaniel]

Um, I just said my opinion on that.

[Sethaniel]

the scary thing in all this is I think he may not be the scum.

why is that scary, farside?

[Sethaniel]

Everyone's going V/LA just as we're getting to the end.

Does everyone pretty much agree that the final scum has to be one of: Kravhen, Seth, Coron?

And Coron and Seth both think Kravhen is town, leaving Seth and Coron as the choices.

We're not in lylo yet, why not just kill one of us tonight and the other tomorrow? I admit I haven't worked out the math yet to see if that's a viable solution.

If we get a townie:

Since we know who the lover pair is, and the treacherous lover is dead, I'm guessing scum will kill dahill/eldarad tonight. Leaving only farside as confirmed innocent, with whichever two of kravhen and seth/coron didn't get lynched, which would put us in lylo.

So I guess that's not a good idea unless we're convinced kravhen is town.

[Sethaniel]

I don't see how that argument links me to jex.

why is it more likely that jex would include a real scum in that list?

how does silence reminding us of my vt claim link me to jex?

how does a wifom defense link me to jex?

how does korts's fos on me link to jex?

[Sethaniel]

I couldn't tell you why Jex did what she did, but I'm a vanilla townie.

Go ahead and lynch me and find out, if you think it'll work for the town. I don't think it's a good idea mathematically, but I've been wrong before.

I'm okay with dying today if you get the right one of kravhen/coron tomorrow.

[Sethaniel]

vote: coron

[Sethaniel]

[quote=kravhen"]
I'm really not liking the whole "Lets quicklynch and then actually THINK tomorrow with who's left" vibe going on...

Some people should unvote... i was forced to lurk due to being busy with quebec day AND canada day (yes in the same week) and so I was rarely sober and in the mood for this. I've been promising a Seth re-read and analysis for a while, which I'm thinking of turning into a player-by-player analysis, don't lynch anyone until I do plz.
[/quote]

More reason for me to think Kravhen is town.

[Sethaniel]

Okay, town, if I self-hammer to prove my townishness, can we still win if I'm wrong and Coron isn't the scum?

Lets see, if I mislynch myself, the logical NK is dahill/eldarad. That will leave Coron, Kravhen, and farside in lylo.

So unless you all are damn sure that Kravhen is town, I shouldn't self-hammer.

[Sethaniel]

Farside, you're an idiot.

Hopefully you won't be quite so stupid tomorrow.