mini #585 - A Tempest Has Formed (Over), Thanks Patrick!!

[Cream147]

Confirm

[Cream147]

Vote: Mellowed Man

I'm hungry, and your name reminds me of marshmallows.

[Cream147]

Just to quickly tell you all I'm here. I'll make some sort of constructive post in a minute, just thought I'd say I'm here first.

[Cream147]

Well I'm not liking evilgorillaz at the moment. I think that lynch all lurkers is a stupid policy, because it gets townies just as much as it gets scum. Also, he seems quite bandwagon happy. At this stage though, I'm just going to

unvote

(don't really want to keep a random vote on at this stage).

FOS:evilgorillaz

will suffice.

[Cream147]

Sorry I haven't posted as much as I like people! I'm not intentionally lurking, though it's quite clear that I am lurking. I haven't got into the feel of this game yet. However, I have just gave it a quick reread and that has got me back into the swing of things.

I am not liking alvinz at the moment for several reasons. First, he singled out Elias among the lurkers, and used incredibly bad logic to back it up. Someone said why would alvinz try to single out someone as experienced as Elias. Maybe because Elias is experienced?! (good idea to get rid of experienced people yes!)

I don't think Elias is scum at all (lynch all lurkers is a bad policy), but, what I meant was that if there was scum in that group then I would say Elias.

Even after your logic was shown to be stupid, you continued to go with it! I don't see where you're coming from there at all. Just because Elias is IC doesn't mean anything.

I think that the small FoS on iamausername is COMPLETELY uncalled for. No one's really noticed that, but I have, and it's for a poor reason. I agree with iamausername about your idea to get everyone say the most townly and most scummy. To me, that's most useful to the scum as they can collect information such as 'Who shall we nightkill' and 'Who shall we scapegoat next'.

All this makes you the most scummy player in my books at the moment, and definitely earns you a

Vote:alvinz95

. Please comeback on all of my points.

[Cream147]

Vote Count:

3 Evilgorrilaz (populartajo, iamausername, CoheedCambria09)
3 Alvinz95 (Mellowed Man, Gaspode, Cream147)
1 mellowed man (Evilgorrilaz)
1 Gaspode (Marmalade)


With 12 alive it takes 7 votes to reach majority.

Now THIS could be good fun!

I hate these posts. To me, you have poorly reread an misinterpreted what I said. I've explained most of those points you've made, yet you have failed to understand.

First off, thats a lot of reasons why I "definitely" earn a vote (sarcasm).

Liike 2

. Again, do you think I meant to lynch him? And does my crap-logic contribute to scumminess? No, its just logic I tried to make up to comment on Gaspode. All the things that are held against me are things that I've posted to comment on everyone's posts, like a good town member, always joining conversation. And, the least townie, most townie thing was to "speed up conversation".

If you count the reasons, there are 4. Two are connected by elias, but I still count them as seperate reasons. At this stage of the game, that's a fair few. I think that bad logic does contribute to scumminess, because it could be intentionally trying to confuse the town. I agree that joining in with the conversation is a good thing for the town, but you've got to hold yourself responsible for what you say nonetheless! When I'm scum, I still join conversation as much as possible. I find the game more fun that way.

Second, on elias the thief.

Maybe because Elias is experienced?! (good idea to get rid of experienced people yes!)

So you're saying I'm trying to lynch him? Why would I lynch a lurker? You haven't reread the thread I'm pretty sure. Again I say, the crap-logic was just a reply, not real scumhunting. If I wanted to lynch him, maybe I would put a FoS or a vote on. And refer to what populartajo said.

Mmm, why would he (a relative newbie) would suspect Elias (an experieced player) and for a weak reason? Wouldnt newbie scum avoid this kind of players?

I laughed when I saw that populartajo quote. That was the quote I was replying to with my comment about experience really. I notice you selectively quoted me there. The full quote you should have put was this.

Someone said why would alvinz try to single out someone as experienced as Elias. Maybe because Elias is experienced?! (good idea to get rid of experienced people yes!)

So you knew I had read that populartajo quote also, but hid it! That is REALLY scummy in my books, trying to trick people into thinking I hadn't read that.

My point was that as scum, getting rid of an experienced player who is town is good. You don't seem the kind of person who would cower at someone because of their join date either.

Lastly, WTF?

I think that the small FoS on iamausername is

COMPLETELY

uncalled for. No one's really noticed that, but I have, and it's for a

poor reason

.

So just because I put a SMALL fos on iamausername for a "poor" reason, then its COMPLETELY uncalled for? Thats

OVEREXAGGERATED

. If I voted him, then that would just be uncalled for. And if I said "iamausername is scum!" then that would be COMPLETELY uncalled for. No, actually making him claim would be completely uncalled for. I find this as a poor reason to add to your list of scumy actions so your vote seems more valid.

All you've done here is say how this is

only a small fos

. Well if I just randomly gave someone a small fos, what would you say? I would say that was

COMPLETELY

uncalled for. You still haven't defended your reasoning for giving that small fos, which was, as I said, poor. You attempt to make me look stupid but still don't actually defend yourself. It's quite a sneaky way of deflecting pressure, and certainly nothing that is useful to the town.

definitely earns you a Vote:alvinz95

Are you serious? These reasons that have already been tooken up, and replied, and one other pathetic, poor, reason, results in a DEFINITE vote? I see this as scum trying to grab a chance to lynch as cream sees a wagon, except there isn't enough stuff to say. You may call my stance defensive, but this attack is a ridiculous scum move.

I don't like your defenses to the elias reasons, and the last reason, which isn't pathetic (though I accept that is was a small fos), so yes, I think it definitely earned you a vote. You are by far the most scummy player in my books, and that is why my vote is on you. Now, you call this attack a ridiculous scum move, but you simply fail by doing this...

MAJOR FoS: Cream147

Sorry, but as you claimed that this attack is a ridiculous scum move, I see no reason why you hesitated to vote me. Trying to keep the suspicion off yourself by not voting for someone just because they voted for you?

I don't see how you can see this as a simple attempt to jump on the bandwagon because normally bandwagoners, particularly for the the scum, don't give reasons. I gave a post, with reasons mentioned before, and one (that you dismissed without giving any defense) of my own creation.

However, I must thank you for this post, for it gave me more reasons to assure me that you are the right vote. (The selective quoting and deflecting questions without answering them)

I'm currently happy with my vote.

(Sorry for this monster post)

[Cream147]

"So you're saying I'm trying to lynch him? Why would I lynch a lurker? You haven't reread the thread I'm pretty sure. Again I say, the crap-logic was just a reply, not real scumhunting. If I wanted to lynch him, maybe I would put a FoS or a vote on. And refer to what populartajo said. "

Should be quoted in my monster post. Sorry if that causes any confusion

[Cream147]

The selective quoting is relevant in my opinion because it makes it seem like I haven't read the populartajo quote. Maybe it didn't make it seem like that. I don't know, because I know what I said in the first place.

And as for your response to my small fos argument, whatever. If my posts annoy you, then sorry, if they've muddied the waters, then sorry. What they both meant to do was put my argument against alvinz.

I'm going to end up rereading this game again soon, because it really is irritating me that I am just not with it and it seems I am unable to substantiate a decent argument. I'm going to step back a bit now because I no longer believe I am helping the town; it seems like I am missing something.

[Cream147]

As I've mentioned, I'm withdrawing out of my argument with alvinz. I agree with the general consensus that there really is no point now. I've read through your reply to my reply alvinz though, and I could very easily argue most of it. I will mention that my 4 reasons includes 2 reasons related to elias, 1 about the small fos, and then the one about your ask for most townly and most scummy. I only bothered replying this much because I don't want to look like a liar. However, the argument is now futile, and is telling us nothing except arguing over little details. My vote remains on you for now.

[Cream147]

Unvote, Vote: Cream147

As I've mentioned, I'm withdrawing out of my argument with alvinz. I agree with the general consensus that there really is no point now. I've read through your reply to my reply alvinz though, and I could very easily argue most of it. I will mention that my 4 reasons includes 2 reasons related to elias, 1 about the small fos, and then the one about your ask for most townly and most scummy. I only bothered replying this much because I don't want to look like a liar. However, the argument is now futile, and is telling us nothing except arguing over little details. My vote remains on you for now.

I am getting bad vibes from this. You seem to be saying, "okay my argument was pretty petty, but you still get my vote." I might be misinterpreting it, but that is what it seems like to me.

I kinda think that the recent conversation between alvinz and cream has been bussing. Anyone agree with that?

What I really meant was, I still think my original argument is fair, however, our subsequent messages are worthless, because they are essentially arguing over little details. I still think alvinz is worth a vote.

[Cream147]

Typical that miztef is away now, so we won't know if this was a mistake or not for a bit. I strongly feel it is though.

[Cream147]

Even though I'm desperately struggling to get with this game, I am still completely against abandoning it. It's sad for LaptopGun, but there are other games. Could he get bumped up a queue or something if his situation is explained?

[Cream147]

lol to matt saying my attacks were logical. Surely if he reread properly he'd realise that that would cause outrage, as people seem to think that those attacks were as far from logical as...illogical.

[Cream147]

Allright. I finished reading, and I think I want to look at cream for right now.

(in response to alvin saying there aren't many reasons for voting him)
If you count the reasons, there are 4. Two are connected by elias, but I still count them as seperate reasons. At this stage of the game, that's a fair few. I think that bad logic does contribute to scumminess, because it could be intentionally trying to confuse the town. I agree that joining in with the conversation is a good thing for the town, but you've got to hold yourself responsible for what you say nonetheless! When I'm scum, I still join conversation as much as possible. I find the game more fun that way.

This is interesting to me. I don't know if this is a tell or not, so I will broadcast this out and see what others think. The argument that bad logic just confuses the town - I'm just trying to put my finger on it.

I guess what I got out of this was the idea that, scum know who town are and are trying to get other townies to lynch town. Townies, though, do not know who anyone else is. So in effect, scum have the advantage, especially day one, of knowing which wagons are actually dangerous on scum and which ones are helpful to them. Townies have no way of knowing wether the case they have on someone is good or bad until the person is lynched and their role revealed. So on day one, especially, when one player is criticizing another for not having 'good logic' or a good case, I tend to look at the criticizer - because it means they might have ingame knowledge.

So, continuing that line, I Would suggest that if cream is scum, then this post might be clearing whoever Alvin is underfire for using bad logic on.

There is nothing wrong with making mistakes, Especially on day one, because even mistakes can lead to progress in the game. So yeah.

*outshining Elias*

I'm going to be honest here...this post has got me. I'm not at all sure what it means. I've reread it twice now, and I'm starting to feel stupid! I'd love to defend whatever this post's attack is but...well...sorry.

[Cream147]

Just to clear it up as well, it was in an alvinz post I read earlier. I'm a 'he', ok.

[Cream147]

Thanks for your explanation of what you meant Skruffs, that's makes things less hazy. I also didn't like coheed's post suggesting that the thing on the wiki is not helpful except it helps find scum...to be honest, I don't think finding masons is particularly important to the town. Is that a slip? I'm not sure, but I don't like it.

[Cream147]

Cream: Unvote into fos? Seems kind of weird, maybe a bit noncommittal, not certain though. Exaggerates a little in his post 4 (by sort by post on his name), but this seems to me like more of a noob tell then anything else, though hes not THAT new. Argument with alvinz = waste of space, no real info garnered. At least he backed out of it when he realized it. Hope that he gets back into the game soon, because I could use some better info on him. I have a neutral read on him.

I love responding to analysis of myself, so here goes. The unvote and the fos that you are talking about were not connected. The unvote was because we were leaving the random vote stage and my vote was random.

Post 4 was exagerated. I don't really consider myself that new anymore, and I'm not going to use that as an excuse UNLESS that genuinely is the reason. I just wanted to make my point effectively, and went over the top. It agree that the whole alvinz thing got a bit silly, and at the subsequent arguing, worthless, though I still believe in my original argument. I think that raised certain points about alvinz.

I haven't been active lately (though in this game I haven't been massively active anyway) because I've been really busy. This should be resolved by Friday and then I'll be at an activeness that you'll probably think is over-active.

[Cream147]

Alvinz, since you admit that that wasn't scumhunting, why did you think it would help the town?

It would help discussion moving as I said before... Like random votes get discussion rolling but they aren't scum-hunting.

Random voting is one of the only ways to get the game started. Baselessly accusing someone of being scum, seriously or not, is neither required nor desired. What kind of discussion did you think would start?

Well, if he wanted a discussion about how he's scummy, then I can see what angle he was coming from...JESTER! (joke)

[Cream147]

My reason for being aggressive on only one person is simple. If I saw other people just as scummy as alvinz, I would have done it to them then, however now, as that only results in making ME look scummy, I don't think it's an effective way to play anymore.

[Cream147]

What do you think about Mellowed Man?

Is this directed towards me? If it is, then I find him quite scummy. I don't like his votehopping. I also don't like his most recent vote on you just after you asked that question. I also find him 'forgetting' his complaint about post 100 by iamausername quite strange.

[Cream147]

I did find and still do find alvinz more scummy than Mellowed Man because I feel that the case against alvinz is stronger than the case against Mellowed Man (and I've summed up my case on both of those players in previous posts). That being said, after a reread of Mellowed Man, I do think he's a good vote.

I have a concern about you Matt. My concern is that you are trying to forge some link between you and I. Maybe you are trying to make me look like your scumbuddy? First you defend me, then you question me and ask me lots of questions. This is all common scum behaviour towards their scumbuddy. Don't think I don't notice.

[Cream147]

I have a concern about you Matt. My concern is that you are trying to forge some link between you and I. Maybe you are trying to make me look like your scumbuddy? First you defend me, then you question me and ask me lots of questions. This is all common scum behaviour towards their scumbuddy. Don't think I don't notice.

K, whatever. I looked at your attack on alvinz in a new way.

I wasn't accusing you. I was just making sure you know, that if you are intentionally doing what you're doing, I've noticed.

[Cream147]

Very defensive, publicly-intentional-distancing post there, cream. First time as scum?

Or maybe town who doesn't wish mafia to try any sneaky tricks? I'm just starting to get concerned that Matt is trying to drag people into thinking we're a team with his posts. Being as many people think I'm scummy already, I'm a good target also.

[Cream147]

Suppose Matt is lynched, and he turns up scum (again, I'm not actually saying this is the case). If we look like an obvious scumpair, then who is the person who you will naturally lynch after him? And people will easily believe that I'm scum, because as I said, I'm a good target. I'm not even saying this is the case, I was just bringing up the possibility, to discourage Matt from doing it if that is what he is doing.

[Cream147]

Hey Cream, have you been scum before?

Ahh, hello my good mellowed man. Thanks for this amazing non-opportunistic comment, it's much appreciated. For your information, I have yet to complete a game here, however I am in several games. They're ongoing though, so I can't exactly say whether I'm scum or not. What I can say is that I always look scummier when I'm town, because I speak from the heart, rather than the brain when I am town, vice versa as scum. That is all.

[Cream147]

I agree with iamausername and evil. There's no worth in pressing on someone who is not there. That being said, I think Mellowed Man gets scummier with every post.

[Cream147]

I think you (Iamausername) are onto me for one reason:

I pointed you out as scummy, with another person earlier in the game, and you have "suspected" me since. What a reaction!

Love this. Love it. You forgot your reason for thinking iamausername scummy if I remember rightly.

Can we have a prod on alvinz please

. I'm leaning more towards Mellowed Man at the moment but I think I'll keep my vote on alvinz for now.

[Cream147]

Are you asking me if I am a cop?
IT's a toss up between Cream and Coheed at the moment,a nd since Coheed is AFK for the next ten days, I can't very well vote him, can I? I've expressed my suspicions of Cream in earlier posts, so I'm ready to start ruffling him up a bit more.

I feel like I'm missing something here. Weren't you the person who FoSed iamausername for laying off pressure on someone who was away? Just an observation.

[Cream147]

Mellowed Man, you vote-hop, and you don't explain your votes. Give me a reason for this scummy playstyle.

[Cream147]

Cream147 - Arean't you the one who bandwagoned onto Alvinz because he was suspicious of Elias_The_thief, a move apparently scummy because Elias was an experienced player and thus scum want to get rid of experienced players?

Yes, that's me. So what.

[Cream147]

Mellowed Man, you vote-hop, and you don't explain your votes. Give me a reason for this scummy playstyle.

Cream147 - Arean't you the one who bandwagoned onto Alvinz because he was suspicious of Elias_The_thief, a move apparently scummy because Elias was an experienced player and thus scum want to get rid of experienced players?

Alvinz, if that's what Skruffs meant, then I think Skruffs should have a look at these side by side. Completely different! I criticised Mellowed Man for vote hopping and lack of reasoning. You can't accuse me of either of those things. You can accuse me of

poor

reasoning if you'd wish, I would disagree of course, and no doubt you'll accuse me of bandwagoning. Not vote-hopping and lack of reasoning though.

[Cream147]

Wow, since my last post, alvinz has been acting incredibly weird. The opinion that we're actually missing here is Skruffs', and I'd like to see his view on alvinz this page. I'd also like to know if alvinz was right with his assumption on what he meant.

[Cream147]

There isn't much of a difference between poor reasoning and lack of reasoning. It isn't scummy either.

Well you see this here yeah alvinz. This is so wrong that I find it hard to believe that you didn't mean to be wrong when you said it. Seriously...that there, is a load of rubbish. Poor reasoning may be an attempt for a townie to get their view across. Lack of reasoning is just bandwagoning or attacking their attacker generally. That definitely applies to Mellowed, if you look at who he's voted for.

[Cream147]

I think it's pretty obvious through all this prolonged conversation that Matt_S is clearly the best lynch for today, and logic points to it. Yes, LOGIC.

If you could explain to us what logic points you to this conclusion, other than that he's voting for you, I'd love to know.

[Cream147]

Votecount

Alvinz95 (2) -- Gaspode, Cream147
Mellowed Man (2) -- Elias_the_thief, Matt_S
CoheedCambria09 (2) -- Marmalade, iamausername
Cream147 (2) -- Alvinz95, populartajo
Matt_S (2) -- Mellowed Man, Skruffs

Not voting: EvilGorrilaz
12 alive, 7 to lynch.

It's nice to see tajo make some opinions, even though I disagree with most of them. Mellowed Man scummy and iamausername town seems pretty good though. Alvinz seems to be like the Marmite of the group...you either think he's definitely town or he's definitely scum. I've explained why I haven't been so aggressive lately, it's because I don't think it's a good tactic anymore, because people seem to ignore your attacks and focus on the attacker, which renders my arguments worthless (and indeed detrimental to the town)

[Cream147]

I just went back and read my posts, and found who I had thought to be most suspicious, and then read their posts, and that person was Cream. He caught my attention when he stated that one of his lines of attack was completely petty, but then continued to have his vote on that person. Then he says that hes going to pull back and watch whats happening (after he began drawing attention to himself. And just recently he has stated he is going to stop aggresively scum hunting because he isnt getting the answers he wants. For those reasons I will place my vote on him

vote:cream

Wow, I am truly shocked by this post, and how poorly it represents me. I believe in all of my arguments against alvinz, I believe what was 'petty' is the way I expressed them, and I accept that. That's nothing to do with the actual case against alvinz, and no reason for me to take my vote off.

I said I was going to stop aggressive scumhunting. I don't recall saying about 'not getting the answers I want'. My reasons were because I didn't think they were a useful tactic and didn't convey my point well. Nothing to do with 'not getting answers'.

[Cream147]

We haven't had a vote count in yonks have we. And if my predictions are right...I'm going to be leading the way in it...

[Cream147]

see siggy

[Cream147]

Unvote. Vote : Elias

Reason : It feels good doing it (x2) and Im sick of his lurking.

Is this all you can come up with over 20 pages? Quite weak, really.

[Cream147]

Following the tides is actually quite scummy. I assume what you mean is that Mellowed Man doesn't seem so scummy anymore...at least, I'd assume.

[Cream147]

What iamausername said

[Cream147]

I'm not scum though, I am being completely honest, I swear on my life that I'm town, and you'll see that I'm right if you continue to push my lynch. In all probability you could be scum since youd know whose town and whose not.

This is a completely useless, worthless defense. Swearing on your life means NOTHING here. (P.S. This game is really active at the second!)

[Cream147]

Ok, I really don't care that it's a bad case, you guys are letting the scum get away while you come after me, a town member. I kinda hope you lynch me, because it would be a complete f*ck up on your part. And thats not apathy for myself, I am just getting really, really frustrated right now at this.

...This is the most terrible post I have troubled myself to read in a long time. I seriously hate this kind of post. The idea of mafia yeah, is that town try to lynch the mafia, who's identities are unknown to them. Mafia try to kill all town, their identities are known to each other.

Now that you understand this, you should understand that there is no way we are meant to know you are town, ergo you only have YOURSELF and YOURSELF alone for the fact that you may get lynched. You have to blame yourself for being generally scummy throughout this game. (P.S. A claim would be lovely Coheed!)

[Cream147]

I sure do, I don't know about the rest of us. The last post from alvinz is very good, and I know you'll say it's just because he unvoted me, but I say it because he actually covered some good points on Coheed.

What iamausername, and Cream said. Worthless defense, bad scum move to just say, "Hey, you guys will be surprised and will feel bad when you lynch me!"

This is so true it's unbelievable.

I was SO close to voting Coheed last post that you won't believe it. I had actually typed it in. However, I cut it out and replaced it with the message asking for Coheed's claim.

Alvinz, since that vote on you, I've sort of stepped back, looked at my mistakes in that vote, and tried to be less aggressive, stupid, and exaggerating, and use more logic. I've been trying to improve my play which was pretty poor up to that point. I still think that you deserved my vote then, but I've been less sure recently, as I believe that Mellowed and Coheed are also good candidates for a vote.

However, what I haven't needed to learn during this game is that people don't actually know that I'm town, and if they lynch me and I turn up town, the game isn't lost. Coheed, maybe you should learn that!

[Cream147]

Claim: Cop, I get to investigate people at night, hence my wanting to get to day 2 (theres a night time in there). I would of been able to help you guys, but since your so adement about my lynch, its not my loss. Have fun continuing your hunt for scum.

It is your loss as well as ours actually. Now, I'm not quite sure how we should approach this. *looks at more experienced players* HELP! Should we lynch him? Should we lynch our second candidate and let him be nightkilled (if he's not nightkilled, he's scum). Should doc save him at night? Please...someone tell me what we should do!

[Cream147]

I see a flaw in the 'let him be nightkilled' plan actually. Scum kill someone else, he's lynched, and town have wasted a lynch essentially. Hmm...I just don't know whether to believe him or not. Should we take the gamble of believing him? ARGH! lol.

[Cream147]

Claim: Cop, I get to investigate people at night, hence my wanting to get to day 2 (theres a night time in there). I would of been able to help you guys, but since your so adement about my lynch, its not my loss. Have fun continuing your hunt for scum.

It is your loss as well as ours actually. Now, I'm not quite sure how we should approach this. *looks at more experienced players* HELP! Should we lynch him? Should we lynch our second candidate and let him be nightkilled (if he's not nightkilled, he's scum). Should doc save him at night? Please...someone tell me what we should do!

Lynching claimed cops day 1 is bad. Stating your intention to lynch them day 2 is worse.

I didn't intend to lynch claimed cop day 2. They were all questions. Right...I'll trust what you say then Matt, as you are more experienced than I. In this case, I assume we target someone else. I also assume that we want doc (if there is one) to save coheed. I'm going to

Unvote. Vote: Mellowed Man

. I'm voting Mellowed Man for reasons I've stated before. He has had general vote jumpiness throughout this game, and has not backed up his votes with any logic. I consider Popular to be a worthy alternative.

[Cream147]

@Cream : Why am I a worthy alternative?

Ah! Sorry for not explaining this. My basic reason is a notable lack of scumhunting in recent pages. You seem to not be attempting to find scum, instead hoping that we will do it all for you. However, that reason isn't as strong as the reasoning against Mellowed Man, hence my vote is on Mellowed Man. Worthy probably wasn't the word I was looking for, insert 'decent' into that sentence instead.

[Cream147]

I'm not lying, my claim is true, thats why I wanted Night and why I was getting so p*ssed off, because now I'm screwed if we don't have doc.

And Just a note, I'll investigate someone tonight, and tell what I find out, but I don't know my sanity, so, my proposition is that a normal townie tell me that they are normal townie, and I will investigate them and see what happens. This is all depending on us having a doc.

there is an obvious flaw with your plan. Any damn person could tell you they were townie. If they come up as guilty, for all you know, that means they actually ARE guilty.

[Cream147]

Yay for activity

I know! I love it like this!

[Cream147]

Ok, I'm going to bed now, but I plan on rereading in the morning with a smarter head on me hopefully!

[Cream147]

NOT PATRICK

I cant stand to have skruffs and patrick in the same game, I get their avatars confused

Patrick's uber-modding skills more than make up for that.

[Cream147]

I think that a lynch of Elias is a bad idea. I think that lynching for lurking should be a last resort and there are better, more scummy actions to look at, like for example Mellowed Man's voting pattern.

[Cream147]

My vote was as good as on him, alvinz' too, so really coheed had 2 more votes than he actually did. We held are votes off him to wait for his claim. So he was claiming at a projected L-2 I think, which isn't too early in my opinion. The post that you and popular have been discussing was a pure panic post. I did not expect to find the cop at all, and as I haven't really been in a situation like that before, I wasn't sure what to do.

What I'd like to know from you Matt, is why a claim from me would be any better than a claim from Mellowed Man. Seriously, I'm not seeing where you're coming from. Surely you just vote for the person who you think is most scummy, which you've said is Mellowed Man. So why?

[Cream147]

unvote, vote Elias

There we go again! No elaboration, no nothing, just bandwagoning!

[Cream147]

Skruffs, the amount to which you are defending Mellowed Man is ridiculous.

[Cream147]

Cream: Very odd comment as far as the buddying thing. Posts some useless noise and generally doesnt help with scumhunting. Attempting to fly under the radar. I have a neutral to scum read on him currently (was neutral previously).

Hmm...does it really look like I am really attempting to fly under radar? If so, then I've made a pretty big mess of it thus far. Oh well, at least you agree about Mellowed Man.

[Cream147]

Cream147: I have more of a read on MM than I do other players, for better or worse. People are voting him for changing his votes, day one, in a game with no n0. There's no reason not to vote hop unless you have info, which neither power roles or townies have. Only scum do. PEople criticizing others for loose tells like vote hopping are therefore, more likely to be scum, in my opinion. If MM actually starts acting scummy, I'll be on him like fish on wheat. People ignoring one person's actions and focusing solely on another when the second has already been proven (Through sheer amount of attention being focused on him by multiple aprties) to be an 'easy target', are scummy. See earlier in this post for an example.

If you read some of my comments on Mellowed Man, it's not simply just vote hopping. It's the people he's vote hopping (either the popular vote for the time or they have said something about him) and the fact that he backs up his votes with absolutely no reasons. Both of those things are scummy (and certainly do not help the town)

[Cream147]

So...MM claim?

I think that's the idea lol. I just don't think he's turned up yet. Take you time Mellowed Man, the whole game is just waiting for you, don't worry!

[Cream147]

I know he hasn't been gone for long (though his last post was completely uninspiring) but can you prod Mellowed Man please Patrick, as this whole game is currently waiting for him.

[Cream147]

If you agreed with the previous incarnation of the quote, why did you not say anything against the people with which I used it?

Because everything that needed to be said was already said by you.

Yet you ignored both of the players I directed it towards and instead joined them in voting Mellowed Man.

Unvote, Vote: Evilgorrilaz

While I disagree with all this you're saying about the Mellowed Man wagon, I agree about what your criticism of Evilgorrilaz, purely because of the inconsistency.

[Cream147]

[quote-"Skruffs"]
Yet you ignored both of the players I directed it towards and instead joined them in voting Mellowed Man.

Indeed I did. Maybe because I think they are less scummy than MM?[/quote]

Forgive me if I'm wrong Skruffs (I probably am) but I think the main point Skruffs really wanted to get across was that you showed disapproval of 'hopping on the easy bandwagon from earlier' (or whatever Skruffs said) and then yet joined it yourself. If that's not the issue Skruffs had, it's certainly the issue I have.

[Cream147]

You know,

Unvote

. This evilgorrilaz thing could turn into a better alternative.

I'm pleased you see where I'm coming from about evilgorillaz. I don't really see the reason in removing your vote from Mellowed Man currently though, unless you were going to place it immediately on evilgorrilaz, which you didn't. Can you explain please?

[Cream147]

Also I still dont see whats the wrong thing about Evilgorrilaz.

Can you explain me?

Evil hops onto an easy bandwagon(Mellowed), with the reason being that Mellowed hopped onto an easy bandwagon. At least I think that's how it's going.

You're a little off the mark. What makes evilgorillaz' action scummy is that he critcises other people for joining the easy wagon of Mellowed Man, yet joins it himself.

[Cream147]

We get it. You hate the Skruffs wagon.

Who was this directed towards? Me? Yes, I hate the Skruffs wagon. I always hate the Skruffs wagon.



I made an observation about two people who rather quickly hopped onto MM. The point is not that I am trying ot say MM is town, or scum, but that the actions of these two players was, I thought, oppurtunistic.

Evilgorillaz ignored my quote in regards to them, but then tried to flip it by using it as an excuse for his voting of the same person as the other two. He said that he agreed with my previous usage of the quote in post 595, and then later said that everything that needed to be said "already had", in 601. However, these two posts are conflicting. Either he thought the usage of those words was good, in which case the two players I used it on WERE voting onto an easy wagon, in which case he shouldn't have followed along behind them... or he thought hte usage was wrong, in which case he shouldn't have agreed with me, and especially he shouldn't have used it against MM. Either way, he's either being hypocritical or he's avoiding scum hunting. Or both. Not sure.

*nods* This is what I thought.

[Cream147]

Even though I can see an argument against evilgorillaz, I currently see a bigger argument against Mellowed Man, as it isn't based on solely one event. I still think that to move this game forward, we need Mellowed Man, and sorry if I didn't make this clear before Patrick by not bolding it but

can we have a prod on Mellowed Man please

?

[Cream147]

I've said this several times, and I'll say it again. I suspect him for the fact that the people he vote-hops very often, with no reasoning at all, onto people who have either attacked him in some way or the popular vote at the time.

[Cream147]

Mellowed Man has posted plenty in other games since his last post here, he's clearly just avoiding us and hoping some of the pressure will disappear before he's forced to post again. I no longer have a problem putting him at L-1.

Unvote, Vote: Mellowed Man

Oh right, that changes a lot. The pressure nearly did start disappearing as well, with all this evilgorillaz thing. Is he actually capable of making a post that gives

reasons

for his actions though. We'll see.

[Cream147]

I'll give him a few more days. It'll sure suck if he has to get replaced.

That would be a 9/10 on the suckage scale. What would we do with his replacement if that happened?

[Cream147]

Well, the rational thing would be to hold the replacement accountable. You can't just give replacements a free ride.

I agree that you can't give them a free ride, but on the other side, we can't expect him to defend Mellowed Man's actions either.

[Cream147]

Whoa! Finally things have happened! Now this is actually a mafia game.

Unvote. Vote : Gaspode.

Okthxbai.

Now you're the one unvoting with no vote to unvote!

[Cream147]

Whoa! Finally things have happened! Now this is actually a mafia game.

Unvote. Vote : Gaspode.

Okthxbai.

I have a few ideas for why you did that, but just to make sure we're on the same page, could you explain? I think it has something to do with the fact that he's commenting on progress that he didn't contribute to.

Whether or not what you said is what popular meant, I think you make a good point Matt. People who are sitting back and watching things happen are annoying me. People who are making arguments, and making things happen (you and Skruffs for example), even if I don't agree with their arguments, at least they are actually participating in scumhunting, which is more than gaspode can say.

[Cream147]

(P.S. I don't think any of that has a strong connection to scumminess however, only a connection to uselessness)

[Cream147]

Refusal to claim isn't going to get you anywhere Mellowed. Why do you never supply reasons with your votes? That

is

scummy.

[Cream147]

L-1. It's not the right time to hammer yet. Let's give Mellowed Man one more chance to actually claim. If he refuses again, then I think we should lynch him. Agree or disagree?

[Cream147]

Ok, so Mellowed Man claims and he may be lynched, or he doesn't claim and WILL be lynched. That will stop him from backing out because there's apparently no argument, even though there is clearly an argument (no matter how much Skruffs may deny it :p)

[Cream147]

populartajo:
stop trying to orchestrate a quicklynch and answer this:
Where did you see that before?

I can't believe I'm siding with you. popular, putting someone at L-1 and then suggesting that someone hammer them, before getting a claim no less, is... well, dumb.

Disagree, there's no reason not to. It would be a mad person who obviously wants to get lynched the following day to hammer Mellowed at this point. I admit there was no reason to put him on L-1 until Mellowed claims, but really, there's no worry about him being on L-1.

[Cream147]

EBWOP: Being tired and all, I missed the 'suggest someone hammer them bit'. Yes, obviously that's ridiculous.

[Cream147]

Mellowed, why the hell didn't you claim whilst you were on. Seriously. If you want any chance of redemption, that's what you'll have to do. I just get the feeling that, as someone said earlier, (forgot who, but they are clever whoever they are) that you are just trying to delay and delay the claim in hope that the pressure will just disappear.

[Cream147]

This is stupid. 2 claims, and we've got doc and cop claims. Unbelievable. Maybe too unbelievable? I'm going to

Unvote

so scum don't get any funny ideas anyway.

[Cream147]

Fine I'll claim:

I'm a doctor, and I don't really mind if you lynch me anyway, as my presumptive conclusion is that people are going to start saying "dude that doesn't make sense, the doctor shouldn't play like that" or whatever.

But hey!

Maybe I'll live to see tonight, maybe not.

OMG! Everytime we get someone to claim it ends up to be a powerrole! Now that both power roles are revealed it means that most likely we lose them tomorrow (doctor gets blocked if theres a mafia roleblocker, and cop gets killed is the normal scum play in this situation). This is depressing.... 2 months, 2 revealed power roles, and 28 pages of CRAP.

I have to agree that this is quite suspicious, as it looks like alvinz knows more than he should.

[Cream147]

I have to agree that this is quite suspicious, as it looks like alvinz knows more than he should.

I would have to disagree on the case that I "know" that they are power roles, because scum would rather stay on the wagon and not believe it rather than believe that they are power roles. Isn't that just basic sense? Scum would really try to lynch a power role Day 1 rather than waste their kill at night. But still, cream did the same thing, but no one has targeted him.... [/quote]

You've missed the point entirely I think. When did I ever say about mafia roleblockers, and speak as if coheed and mellowed were practically confirmed power roles. That is what is worrying about your post. I believe I said that what has happened has been 'too unbelievable', showing that I definitely do not think it's a certainty (moreso, I think it's quite unlikely) that both mellowed and coheed are telling the truth.

[Cream147]

Also, Cream sometimes seem to agree with everyone. I dont know what this means yet.

I agree with you there actually :p. When I typed 'I agree' in recently I noticed that that I'd done that about a million times. Nevertheless, I do agree, generally...except with Mellowed Man's posts. I disagree with all of them.

Anyway, on a more serious topic, this day is still dragging on. I think we need to choose someone to lynch today. I think that alvinz or evil are fair lynches but I'm not sure to be honest.

[Cream147]

Ok, I think I'm going to go with a vote on alvinz.

Vote: alvinz95

for all the reasons that I've mentioned before and can't be bothered to repeat, and because Mellowed claims doc so we're not lynching him.

[Cream147]

Ok, I think I'm going to go with a vote on alvinz.

Vote: alvinz95

for all the reasons that I've mentioned before and can't be bothered to repeat, and because Mellowed claims doc so we're not lynching him.

Of course, I say again, they were all bogus reasonings. (Most of them)

oh my god you suck.

you are now the last other person that I feel scummy.

Vote: Cream

I've bolded and italised (not a word but you know what I mean) the relevant point.

Anyway, in response to the bolded and italised bit, that's how I feel about you. My reasoning includes the Elias thing, the odd behaviour since your return to this game (by return I mean at the point after I requested your prod), and the way you accepted the doc and cop claims without question.

[Cream147]

does anybody think MM's play is how a doctor should play?

It's not how a doc

should

play, but that doesn't really bear any particular relation to whether or not it's how Mellowed

would

play as doc.

This.

[Cream147]

Vote: alvinz95

Good job. Go scum.

Yayee! Of course, this may or may not have implications on Mellowed Man, but I'm guessing that we shouldn't say "Alvinz' claim tried to protect Mellowed, Mellowed is scum!" because that may very well have been the whole point of it. I hate WIFOM.

[Cream147]

I think that you can tell who my partner is.

So, you only have one?

IT'S A TRAP!

I would think that it was a slip by alvinz, except I was be very surprised if this game only had 2 scum. 12 players is normally 3-4, so I'm going to agreed with Matt here.

[Cream147]

Iamausername = big yellow bus

I assume you're trying to say he bussed you here. Pretty much clears him then, though that's WIFOM I suppose.

[Cream147]

Iamausername = big yellow bus

I assume you're trying to say he bussed you here. Pretty much clears him then, though that's WIFOM I suppose.

Joke people!

Yes I have very bad jokes.

Just because it's a joke doesn't mean you might not be careful. At Epic Mafia, for example, I never ever accuse my scumbuddy upon lynching, as joke or otherwise...why? I don't know, just...don't know.

[Cream147]

Well...claiming doctor was a gambit that CERTAINLY paid off there Mellowed. Well done!

[Cream147]

Oh, and coheed should report.

[Cream147]

Oh, and sorry for the triple post, but we either have a vig or an sk. I can actually see reasons why a vig would shoot Mellowed Man, but maybe I'm just being too hopeful that we don't have an sk.

[Cream147]

Well...claiming doctor was a gambit that CERTAINLY paid off there Mellowed. Well done!

Um...it actually did. Pulling the mafias kill away from real doc by claiming it yourself may cause your death but it seriously helps the town out.

Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but are you thinking that I was being sarcastic with my original post? I wasn't.

[Cream147]

Oh, and sorry for the triple post, but we either have a vig or an sk.

Wait, how do you know this?

...Be more observant my friend!

...but it seems that he was targetted by more than one party

I take that to mean that vig or sk also targetted Mellowed. Agree?

[Cream147]

Your argument against Elias seems very sound to me popular. There is just one thing I'm thinking...would it be more beneficial to us to try and lynch the SK than mafia, as with no SK, there will only be 1 nightkill per night. It's just a thought.

[Cream147]

The SK (And it is most likely an SK, serial killers traditionally STAB to death, where as vigs have shootings or bludgeonings) is a threat to the mafia, so the mafia will be trying to focus attention on the SK.

Fos: Cream

Fos: populartajo

for saying coheed should only report unless he was RB'd. Coheed should decide, himself, if he wants to reveal any results he may have gotten, and if he WAS roleblocked, he DEFINITELY should say as such. If he has an innocent, he may not want to report until the day has progressed some.

Fos: cream

again for the equivalent of "Good job doctor" except at Alvinz.


More later! I wasn't even aware day had ended until this morning.

Fair enough. Thanks for the opinion on SK hunting (or not doing so). When did I say anything equivalent to 'good job doctor' at Alvinz? Do you mean Mellowed?

[Cream147]

If you were town you wouldnt suspect me.

[devil'sadvocate]Why not? You were scummy yesterday and now you are tying him to the godfather.[/devil'sadvocate]

I make a decent case against him (he should have expected it as Im expecting someone to make a case agaisnt me) and he inmediately says that all this is generated by tajoscum. Really? I guess this also means you're also my scumpartner. Yeah, right.

This doesn't answer my question.

Oh yes it does. If he were town he wouldnt have said I am scum.

You are simply restating what I'm asking you about!

WHY

would he think you are not scum??

What exactly do you want? There are many reasons why he would think I am not scum. The one Im looking for is that he's probable scum, therefore he knows my allingment, although he could be town playing poorly but I doubt it knowing him as scum. My point is why he, assuming he's town, would say this is all orchestrated by tajoscum when my case is extremely decent against him.

My god popular, you are not making any sense. Let me try this one more time. If he is town, why

wouldn't[

he think you're scum? Just because your case is "good" doesn't mean you can't be scum. Can you

please

correctly answer my question.

This pyramid is making no sense.
Look, Alabaska I dont think he's town therefore he knows my allignment.
Yes, he could be town (Ive been wrong many times) but I seriously doubt it. The way Alvinz has behaved D1 when talking about him is too strange and sometimes contradictory. (Check my big post for details) Rereading the game, I thought this was a good case and Im waiting for his response with the pressure he deserves.
My case is good, any people could have done that with D1 information. In fact Im sure many people agree with me here.
Does that agreement make all scum? Does the pointing of this case make me inmediately scum?
Well, Elias seems to think I am. Why dont you ask him what does he think of you?
I dont understand what you want. Seriously.
Do you think Im scum,. Ok, push my case, Ill try to answer everything you want, becuase its OBVIOUS my relationship with Alvinz is not the best of the world, but that DOESNT mean you're inmediately scum, do you get my point?

This pyramid stopped making sense a long time ago. It's become a useless argument which ceased to help the town several quotes back. If it's anything popular, I agree with you (agreeing for the win!) that Elias is possible scum. I'm still not sure enough for a vote yet, but the case which you put forward was exactly what I was thinking overnight.

[Cream147]

I think that coheed is actually cop. I don't think he'd make up having not received the post (though he might have said that he was roleblocked in a different way).

[Cream147]

Anyway, it's interesting how popular is making scum connections based on someone who he thought was town. You can define interesting however you wish, but I'll define it as questionable.

I don't find it that interesting. I assume you're suggesting that he and alvinz are a scumpair and he's deflecting attention away.

[Cream147]

Anyway, it's interesting how popular is making scum connections based on someone who he thought was town. You can define interesting however you wish, but I'll define it as questionable.

I don't find it that interesting. I assume you're suggesting that he and alvinz are a scumpair and he's deflecting attention away.

Popular believed alvinz was town yesterday, yet is making cases based on alvinz' actions yesterday. Of course, the fact that you don't find that interesting reminds me of how you interacted with alvinz yesterday. Given alvinz' alignment, that is much more interesting.

Agree with you there! I would have happily had alvinz lynched from near the start, until the end. Judging by alvinz' alignment, that makes our interactions very interesting!

[Cream147]

He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

Maybe because he had a scum read on Mellowed? I don't see how that says anything about his alignment on day 2.

What I said

Additonal fact. He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

I dont blame him for that but I feel he could have pushed Alvinz case better.

Matt do you think Im scum with Alvinz?

You know, you could have also pushed an alvinz case yet didn't. You're actually my number 2 pick for alvinz' buddy, because Cream's interactions yesterday seem like blatant distancing.

Distancing huh? I had my vote on him for most of the day. I endorsed his lynch happily throughout the day. I took my vote off him when coheed looked a better candidate, and then moved to Mellowed before going right back to alvinz. Surely there's a line to draw between distancing and genuine suspicion. Or should suspicion of someone be avoided where possible because it may look too much like distancing.

[Cream147]

Sorry, due to certain real-life circumstances, I've had limited access here for a bit. I've been reading, so I'm completely up with it, but I haven't had much time to post. I'll try and give a bit of content to the discussion tomorrow.

[Cream147]

I pointed out that Alvinz had information about the mafia having a roleblocker, which led to him being lynched.

alvinz was lynched because he claimed a role that was guaranteed not in the game. The roleblocker thing might have had a slight indirect influence on the buildup to that, but I'd hardly say it was a major factor. And if alvinz had been paying attention, he had a perfectly good excuse for thinking there was a mafia roleblocker - it's in the possible roles listed at the start of the thread. If he could come up with that, you've got some good distancing down, and neither of you come out of it badly. If he couldn't, you're probably better off bussing him.

You are slightly wrong about this. Alvinz had the need to claim because he was under pressure, which had a lot to do with this roleblocker incident that Skruffs brought up. The claim simply pushed him over the line (as confirmed scum).

Skruffs' behaviour was very odd yesterday. However, I don't think it was odd in a scummy way, simply odd in an odd way. I think that this connection case between him and alvinz is ok, but not exactly great. I'm more interested in Elias currently.

[Cream147]

I thought it was the belief of the cop and doc claims that got alvinz deadified. I'm not comfortable with a Skruffs lynch today. I don't see the connections between him and alvinz.

This is exactly how I saw it. The obvious fake claim sealed it, but why did he have to claim? Because he had more knowledge than he should've.

[Cream147]

Hi Xtoxm are you the SK?

This post indicates that you already know that he is not in the mafia, and/or you are not interested in knowing if he is in the mafia. Trying to find the SK and not mafia is a mafia-tell.

You are a funny bunny. Just to tell you straight out what you got wrong, popular suspected gaspode of being SK. Hence, he suspects Xtoxm of the same thing. I see no mafia-tells in that from where I'm sitting.

[Cream147]

Fos: Cream147

You just gave PopularTajo an "out" by defending him like that, while at the same time suggesting there was no reason to think that Pop.Taj. was doing anything wrong in the first place. Overly defensive while trying to be nonchalant? Scumtell.

Like you wouldn't have asked why your comment was so stupid. Seriously, I know what it feels like to be proved wrong (I hate it). Just gotta get over it.

Also, both popular and matt said your comment was silly, I just explained exactly why, because you would've asked.

On another note, xtoxm, thanks for your vote. Unfortunately, 'I've forgotten why' is really hard for me to defend, so if you'd like to come up with a reason, that would be lovely.

[Cream147]

Cream: Don't usually oblige to someone I think is scum, but in this case I shall

Well at least you made me laugh.

[Cream147]

How is it that Skruffs has not only not been lynched yet, but doesn't even have any votes besides mine? I don't understand.

I don't think the case on Skruffs is as clear cut as you make it out to be. He certainly acted oddly yesterday, his stubborn defense of Mellowed Man was odd, and he did say a few strange things about alvinz. Nevertheless, I'm more inclined to look towards Elias, as I believe the case on him is marginally better.

[Cream147]

Haha pues no puedes nada ser segurísimo >_>

También debe ser "seaban" en lugar de eran, ¿sí? El subjunctivo...me lo olvido todos.

Y yo estoy mas flojo que traduzcar este. Me río a traduzcadores (¿correcto?); yo quiero ver alguien usar "Google" en este

Haha then you cannot nothing be segurísimo > _> Also it must be " seaban" instead of they were, yes? The subjunctivo… me the forgetfulness all. And I am but loose who to traduzcar this. I laugh to me to traduzcadores (correct); I want to see somebody use " Google" in this

I never did rate Babelfish.

[Cream147]

I Acted oddly?
Yes, that's a huge scum tell. I *never* act oddly.

You know what I meant when I said you acted oddly yesterday. In terms of your playstyle, you acted incredibly strange yesterday. Don't try and just use sarcasm to wash it away.

My defense of MEllowed Man, based on meta, that I had of him, from playing in other games of him, and from the general feel fo the case against him in the first place? Oh yes, that *IS* suspicious.. why did I try to say that the hypocritical votes of sewveral people, including alvinz, I believe, was suspicious when I should have just let someone who I thought was being wrung up for the wrong reasons by people who were acting scummily than him get rung up!

He was almost lynched for VOTE HOPPING at the beginning of DAY ONE.

You defended him in a way that I reserve only to defend myself. Your manic defense of Mellowed Man is the main portion of what I perceive to be odd behaviour from you yesterday. I don't recall him being nearly lynched at the beginning of Day 1. When I put my vote on him, my vote was mainly for his lack of justifying his votes. I notice you use sarcasm again, to try and turn the tables.

I need to look back and see why I was suspicious of Alvinz, but my suspicions early on were all abouit how players interacted with each other and how they worded themselves.

Others have jumped on to you for this but I'm not too bothered by it. I'm a very lazy person and sometimes I leave putting my case on someone forward until later on, regardless of alignment.

[Cream147]

One part of it is you calling Alabaska town because he accused you of bussing.

I hate it when people say this to me.

Calling someone town that's accusing you is not scummy.

He's basically saying, "Hey, you're right. You must be town." That just doesn't sit well with me.

I completely and totally disagree with this. I'll explain why when I'm not posting with an iPhone

[Cream147]

Already sent to the mod, but figured I'd post here too.

Starting monday, I'll be working at an overnight summer camp, and I'll probably only be able to post on weekends. If this is a problem, I can understand and will accept replacement, though I'd like to stay in the game. Sorry for the inconvenience.

I'm home now until sunday because of unforeseen medical problems, but due to the circumstances I won't be able to post exactly (I'll be heavily sedated most of the next couple days). So yeah. Just thought everyone should know I'll be inactive.

[Cream147]

I don't remember seeing a case about Gaspode/Xtoxm being the SK. Is there one?

Yes. I believe it was in tajo's long post at the start of the day. To summarise it, basically, Tajo didn't like Gaspode's behaviour yesterday, but was pretty sure that he wasn't alvinz' scumbuddy. Therefore, he thought there was a strong possibility of Gaspode being the sk.

[Cream147]

We may as well wait for him, being as its this close to the weekend. However, I would agree that waiting much longer is damaging to the game.

[Cream147]

Cream just doesn't feel like scum to me here.

lol! Here, you say? *stops self from talking about an ongoing game outside of the appropriate thread*

On a less joking note, here's a question to everyone. If Elias does not post this weekend then what should we do? Do we:

a) Lynch him
b) Wait for him to post
c) Get him replaced
d) Other (state what other thing we should do if you choose this)

Tough decision! Let's hear your answers!

[Cream147]

A.

All the way.

Ok, you are blatantly the SK.

[Cream147]

EBWOP: You're not the SK just because you chose A. It's the way that your only reason for lynching Elias is lurking, you showed that earlier, and you seem greatly excited by his lynch. You're not mafia because of Gaspode's behaviour yesterday, so I'd have to say you were SK. In fact, I think you are hoping that Elias is scum.

[Cream147]

Ok, it seems the way forward is clear. We need a replacement on Elias. A replacement who's role it will be to claim, and then get lynched and turn up scum. Then, as Alabaska said, we lynch pop, then xtoxm and win...if only it were THAT easy.

[Cream147]

Lynch without claim > Death. Just sayin'.

Wow, you are the sk!...actually, forget that, I agree with you this time, but this game isn't going to die. Nevertheless, I'll put my vote on, just to up the pressure a bit.

Vote: Elias

[Cream147]

I endorse Alabaska's vote putting Skruff's at L-2, as that is enough to put a bit of pressure on. I do not endorse the SK putting Skruffs at L-1, as any Tom, Dick or Harry could just lynch him. If I wanted to, I could lynch Skruffs with this post.

Would it be a good idea for the other lover to claim now?

[Cream147]

Wait. How in the world is Xtoxm cleared from being mafia? Is there something I'm missing here?

Gaspode's continual pursuit of lynching alvinz yesterday seems to suggest that Xtoxm isn't mafia.

[Cream147]

I sense annoyance in AJ's comment there that his target is clear.

Someone being clear is a good thing, if you're town.

I retract my statement about Porochaz.

You're only clear from being mafia, unless I've missed something. You're still the SK, so you're still our lynch target once we've weeded out the mafia. (P.S. In fact, you seem quite eager to reinforce the 'fact' that you are clear. Very SKish behaviour in my opinion.)

[Cream147]

Uhh, riight...

Cream gains my newly vacated scum position.

Fun! Don't crosskill me tonight, you may have a chance to leech victory off me yet.

On a more serious note, would it be a good idea for the other lover to claim, as they are going to die shortly anyway?

[Cream147]

Only scum want the lover claiming so as not to kill it.

That request is horribly antitown.

This is the truth. The lover wants, above all else, to take the bullet(or knife) tonight. Claiming ruins the chance to do that.

Fair enough. This is why I put the question out, to see if it had any intelligence behind it. Clearly the answer is no. Xtoxm, you are desperately trying to implicate me at every turn since I discovered you were the SK.

I would like to get back onto proper scumhunting soon, something which I think hasn't happened since the early stages of Day 2.

I don't think Skruffs killed iamausername. However, it's very possible that

xtoxm

, ok, the SK killed him to frame Skruffs. I still think it's very possible that Skruffs is mafia though. Iamausername put a decent case (admittedly based on relationships more than anything) but if you couple that with the odd behaviour, and the fact that he hasn't in my opinion, been scumhunting much, makes me wonder.

[Cream147]

Tomorrow, I am going on holiday. The hotel we are going to supposedly has Wi-Fi access, but I don't trust it. I will definitely be on LA, but it's possible I won't be able to post for the next 7 days. If the Wi-Fi at the hotel I am going to is good, I will make a post in the next 48 hours. Mods can deal with this in whatever way they want (replacement, temp replacement, nothing, etc.) Am posting to all my games.

[Cream147]

Internet on holiday broke. Internet works again now. Will make more detailed post when less busy. Posting to all games I'm in.

[Cream147]

Hello. I'm here.

[Cream147]

Matt, I would like to inform you that this isn't my first game as scum (don't take that to be a slip saying that I am scum, just not for the first time, I just can't express myself any better). In 2 finished games I have been in scum, in neither have I had any arguments with my scumpartner, certainly not in the same way as my argument with Alvinz. I'll give you links if you wan them.

On the Skruffs issue, I really am not sure.

Hmmm.
I want everyone to weigh in on the mass claim idea.
Yes I am most suspicious of Matt_S. Alabaska J is just off the charts with how oppurtunistic he has been. HE really reeks of mafia who is trying to get a mislynch on anyone for an automatic win.
PopularTajo, your vote on me is ridiculous. If you are really the lover and town, and you have actually analyzed my quotes, then you should be able to tell that I have already soft claimed. Several other players have. Why don't you unvote me so that the mafia and SK can't quick lynch me to ensure that ONE of the scum groups gets a win?

I don't understand where Skruffs is coming from here...does that make me scum? I hope not...I'd better reread Skruffs' recent posts. Either way, I'd suggest that Alabaska voting for Skruffs after that was a foolish foolish thing to do and Skruffs may just be getting the right read off of him.

I'm neither for or against a massclaim.

[Cream147]

It's too bad you're a serial killer candidate.

Why is that?

You're denying that you're even a candidate for SK?

I'm very interested in an Alabaska lynch. Alabaska's behaviour has been, as Skruffs has said, something that looks very suspiciously like a mafia who's getting excited about claiming their victory.

[Cream147]

Continually calling me the SK doesn't mean I become it.

No, but I'd wager that your role pm

does

make you SK. Which is why we can't lynch you. Not today.

[Cream147]

Howdy y'all. Alabaska is scum, as Porochaz nicely proves.

Vote: Alabaska J

[Cream147]

xtoxm is

STILL

the SK by the way.

[Cream147]

Anyway, Skruffs actually being the JK (which I now believe) throws a wrench in my plans. I had

completely

forgotten about Cream, and so I don't think I

can

win, unless Skruffs misses the night again, me and Cream hit townies (I've concluded Cream is the other scum btw), and then the town choses me to win.

I love the way you assume I'm scum. If I were scum, I assure you, I'd wait for a hammering opportunity, rather than stick an L-1 vote on you. I've noticed something.

At one point I didn't even have a nightkill.

You didn't join this game on day one did you? Yet clearly, the sk had a night kill night one, I believe this was proved by the flavour. Therefore, you must have had a night kill from second one. Therefore, you're not the sk. I think where we go from her is pretty obvious. Is there a flaw in my logic? It seems too good to be true.

[Cream147]

Ok, you joined on day 1. So there was a flaw in my logic. Day 1 dragged on for so long that it seemed like you joined later than that. Sorry for that idiotic theory.

[Cream147]

*bangs head*...how can I be so stupid! I've got this all wrong! Xtoxm is scum, AJ IS the Sk. Or so I'm suspecting now. Town, if what I've just said is true, I am soooo sorry.

[Cream147]

*bangs head*...how can I be so stupid! I've got this all wrong! Xtoxm is scum, AJ IS the Sk. Or so I'm suspecting now. Town, if what I've just said is true, I am soooo sorry.

Wait, premature reaction, xtoxm's vote wasn't the hammer. Phew...I resume to my old stance.

[Cream147]

*bangs head*...how can I be so stupid! I've got this all wrong! Xtoxm is scum, AJ IS the Sk. Or so I'm suspecting now. Town, if what I've just said is true, I am soooo sorry.

Wait, premature reaction, xtoxm's vote wasn't the hammer. Phew...I resume to my old stance.

Yes, it's only L-1 again.

Yes...a scary thought hit my head. Xtoxm hadn't posted since I made it L-1 on Alabaska. Therefore, maybe Xtoxm hadn't seen that yet, until he 'hammered'...thankfully this was just stupidity on my part.

[Cream147]

I think it's fair to say that Miztef has confused us...the supposed 'pms' on the front page seem to be more like descriptions of the roles, rather than the actual pms. I feel so conned lol. That still makes Alabaska's rash claim that at one point, he didn't have a night kill seem a bit...strange.

[Cream147]

I will claim now. I don't think there is any damage to be done. I'm a vanilla townie. Sorry if harm

was

done with that claim.

[Cream147]

It seems that we're all of common belief that Skruffs is jailkeeper, because the game would be unbalanced with so little power roles. Pop is town. Alabaska claims SK. That leaves us with me, poro, xtoxm, and Matt. Me and xtoxm are generally believed to not really have a chance of being partners with alvinz. If the game is 3 mafia and 1 sk, then it seems that Poro and Matt are the scum, and Alabaska is the SK...if only it were that simple...for a start, you have to believe that there are 3 mafia, rather than 2. You have to believe Alabaska's claim. You have to believe that xtoxm and I aren't scumbuddies with alvinz. However, what I've said is a real possibility, and I think I'd put my vote on a Poro or Matt lynch today.

[Cream147]

Good post, Cream.

I just had a thought - Perhaps Matt is the best lynch for today? The way I see it, there's still an outside chance of Poro being SK...But with Matt, he's mafia in both scenario's. Perhaps we should lynch him?

I've now seen this game in a different light. I was tunnel-visioned before, as you might've noticed. :p

Mmm but if Ala is the SK wouldnt he have hammered him?

This is a real oddity. A flaw in the plan. This actually seems to suggest, at least to me, that there are indeed only 2 mafia. You said about alvinz' little slip earlier. If Matt was the only mafia left, hammering Alab like that wouldn't be the smartest thing to do. Of course, if there are only 2 mafia, isn't it possible that Poro could be mafia as well? Maybe it was just an oversight by Matt that he didn't hammer Alab?

[Cream147]

EG/Alv did not bus. It was some light distancing. I maintain that Poro is a suspect.

I could go with a Matt lynch, I think.

I think AJ should be Jailed tonight...Sorry...

I agree with every word of this.

[Cream147]

Actually, I agree with every word of it except 'Sorry'

[Cream147]

Why are you sorry? Hes definetly an anti town role, which means one less scum no matter who we lynch.

An Xtoxm lynch still seems the way to go to me, it seems like the obvious option. Hes been the scummiest all day and I think it would be a big mistake to lynch anyone else... also a miller is nothing like a lover stop painting it that way. Can anyone else, ie. Cream, Skruffs, Pop, Matt...(NOT Xtoxm) I need to know why a Xtoxm is the wrong way to go because I just dont understand why he is out from all of you.

Gaspode (former xtoxm) was way too aggresive towards alvinz on Day 1. If indeed, alvinz does have only a partner, it would be surprising to see such strong bussing on Day 1. In fact, it would be surprising to see such strong bussing in any case.

[Cream147]

Aswell as the Gaspode thing, I like to think i've been one of the most pro-town here.

This made me lol.

Why is that?

I believe i've been either most or 2nd most active here.

You

have

been active...I wouldn't exactly say you've been greatly protown though. I still think that a read of you makes me think 'SK'.

[Cream147]

pop why are you not voting for the two scum

you are horrible at being a confirmed townie

Sorry to disappoint you, but I don't think anyone is going to take advice off you, as you are confirmed scum.

[Cream147]

Unvote. Vote: Matt

[Cream147]

Yay! Success. Or so Matt's post seems to tell me anyway.

[Cream147]

Alabaska is the one who

needs

to be lynched tomorrow. We can't have 2 kills tomorrow night after all.

[Cream147]

We don't KNOW AJ is SK. He might still be maf. And you be SK. And that's what i'm worried about. If we lynch AJ as maf, then Poro is SK. And then Cream/Skruffs won't believe me and just lynch me.

The best action for tomorrow is to lynch Alabaska. End of discussion.

[Cream147]

Worried about your night action?

LOL

Also, @cream: If things go according to plan it won't be too easy

Why won't lynching you be easy?

[Cream147]

Vote: Alabaska

Skruffs, join this wagon pronto (and I seriously mean as quick as you can). Then tonight...jailkeep wisely.

Mod, if Skruffs didn't send in his night action (though I assume he did) please prod him immediately.

[Cream147]

Skruffs JK'd the mafia, as I NK'd Xtoxm.

GG town.

Actually, the way you say this...I think we've cleared out the mafia!

[Cream147]

Mod prod Skruffs if you haven't already please

[Cream147]

As I've claimed before, Vanilla Townie. I

think

Poro claimed the same.

[Cream147]

I would prefer to hit maf today.

unvote, vote: Cream147

Aren't you funny.

[Cream147]

Cream147, what do you think the best course of action would be?
I'll ask Poro when he gets back, too.

Well obviously, with me knowing that I'm town, from my point of view the best course of action is to lynch Poro and then jailkeep Alabaska, ensuring a town win.

From your shoes, it's obviously not as clear cut, because me and Poro are not-confirmed. With that being said, I think lynching Alabaska and then...well then you do what you think is right, I think.

[Cream147]

I'm not confirmed, either, of course, as the only person I imagine the mafia would want to kill would be the claimed power role, and, if I was the mafia, I Would have to no-NK and then claim to have RB'd someone else to be seen as credible.

That nobody has suggested that kind of irks me.

There's no point in distrusting you at this point. If you're mafia, the town has lost. Therefore there's no reason not to believe you at this point. I am talking sense yes?

[Cream147]

Porochaz, Cream, I need your guys' help in figuring out who I should JK tonight, if there is one.

Well naturally, I think Poro, Poro will say me...Poro has the better case as well, being as you jailkept me last night.

[Cream147]

So neither of you are suggesting that either A) there is no mafia or that B) mafia didn't kill or C) cream147 was actually roleblocked or even that (for some reason) D) porochaz tried to kill cream?

*pokes both of you*

I'm almost certain there is no mafia. But that doesn't help choose who you should jailkeep tonight if there is.

[Cream147]

Vote: Porochaz

. Obvious reasons. Well done for jailkeeping him Skruffs...I maybe didn't do what I should've done yesterday after all. I should've laid a good defense on the table. For example, my relationship with the known scum would be very unusual for a scum player I think (persistent arguments against alvinz, and no hesitancy in lynching Matt, who would have been my remaining partner).

[Cream147]

Ok, just going to toss some more stuff out there. I found early in the game. I didn't like Matt's interactions with me early in the game, I even confronted him about them.

That's not a good defense Porochaz. I can see Cream147 not even bothering to submit a NK because he assumed he would be JK'd again

That is called 'throwing away the game'. I would never ever do that. You obviously don't have to believe this, but I am a very competitive player, and I won't stop trying to win until I have lost. I'm also at this website a lot, so I've had plenty of time where I could've submitted a nightkill, if I were scum.

[Cream147]

True, but by your own admission you weren't really trying yesterday - after I had jailkept you - and it was only after I said who I had JK'd last night that you suddenly perked back up again.

That was nothing to do with your jailkeeping target though, I wasn't up and at it before you said who your target was either. It was because I had no case whatsoever on Porochaz, and I assumed that it was a 2 mafia team and we'd won. I realise it was a poor assumption now, of course.

In fact, I still don't really have a case on Porochaz. I only think it's Porochaz because from my view,

it has to be him

(well, unless it's you, but would you really make me do this if it were?). Mind you, other people have made cases on him, not cases that I particularly agree with though.

Let Porochaz have his say, and then make your decision. As it was last night, this is entirely your decision really. Just consider the facts, and the arguments, carefully.

[Cream147]

But your argument against yourself being scum was an incredibly vague and not really alignment-confirming suggestion that you voted both of your presumable scum partners. Mafia has no problem voting mafia if it benefits them, though, especially if the SK has claimed already.

I have a question for the mod!

Not quite just that. Our communications were, in my opinion, odd, for scumpartners. As I have an idea of which way you're leaning at the moment, judging by your posts, I will find examples and quote.

Have you asked the question by pm or are you going to ask publicly?

[Cream147]

I'll make my decision, you are saying now that you only thought there were two mafia. However:

Alabaska is the one who

needs

to be lynched tomorrow. We can't have 2 kills tomorrow night after all.

This was around the time you voted Matt_S. This suggests that either you didn't think Matt_S was mafia (if you thought there were only two mafia) and thus you shouldn't have been voting him, or you thought that Matt_S was mafia (which explains you voting him) but that you thought there wouuld be another mafia afterwards.

I was merely saying that we must eliminate the possibility of having 2 kills. I wasn't saying 100% that there would be 2 kills.

[Cream147]

....................................

ZOMBIE!

[Cream147]

Porochaz failed to post...

[Cream147]

Ok Skruffs if you jailkept me then cream could of tried to kill me and failed cause I was protected by you? Ive got this worked out in my head not really explaining it very well. It's in Skruffs court but I think the jailkeeping me has blocked Creams kill against me, its the only reason why I could see us both being still alive, because if the mafia can kill the jailkeeper whilst being jailed (which is what I was asking) then the only explanation is having one of us try to kill the other.

This is an insult. Just saying. The obvious, clear move for scum last night was to kill Skruffs.

[Cream147]

If the mafia can kill the jailkeeper whilst they are jailed then why is skruffs not dead?

What on earth makes you think that the mafia have such powers?

[Cream147]

Cream, I notice your being quite quiet at the moment, why did your opinion of xtoxm suddenly change a while back?

Hmm, I believe it was to do in a sudden increase in xtoxm's reasoning, along with my sudden realisation that Alabaska probably was SK. I believe I did mention how I realised I was too tunnel visioned on xtoxm...

Sorry I didn't answer quicker, I've been on unforseen VLA

[Cream147]

Phew...well done Skruffs. Allow me to reassure you in twilight, where I have no need to lie. You've made the right decision. If you're scum by the way, I hate you

[Cream147]

So wait, if I had targetted Alabaska instead of cream, would I have been killed?

Err?