Open 62 - Strawberry Mafia - Game Over! before 568
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Sure. Pressuring is always a good way to get some conversation going.neko wrote:I have a proposal. As an alternative to the Near-wagon, why don't we run up a scigatt-wagon? I think it could be quite informative.
Any takers?
Vote: scigatt"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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"He's not going to be today's lynch" = you sort of seem like you're leading the town here. You're not the sole controller of the lynch, y'know. What also bothers me is your inconsistant treatment of certain reactions. You say ThAdmiral and I both joined the wagon for info, yet you're suspicious of him for not saying much when I really haven't either. Also, you're somewhat attacking ThAdmiral for lack of content, whereas here:neko wrote:Cephrir joined to get information as well. He seems like he's pro-town at the moment. Unless things change drastically, I'd say he's not going to be today's lynch. ThAdmiral seemed to have joined to get info as well, so I'm a bit hesitant to say he's leaning more scum than town. We just can't know yet.
malthusis gets no suspicion for exactly the same thing? scigatt also made quite a few posts, and all you say about him isMalthusis hasn't really given us anything at all. It would be wonderful to hear from him very soon.
So... what's up with that?Nothing of any real substance, yet he'd like contribution from others"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Some games, I just play aggressively to try out something a bit different. Or sometimes I just make aggressive and out of character posts to get reactions. I find it's rather effective in some situations, but what really matters here is that you're not going to have much luck calling people scum based on playstyle.Snix wrote:Vote: Cephrir
Cephrir has, to me, done some very suspicious things. Most of his posts just seem very aggressive. I understand that aggression can help at times but he seems like he is just picking to pick.
I love pressuring people to get reactions. It works really well. And by the way, agreeing with people (especially when they're so right it hurts) is not a scumtell. Especially if that player isn't dead and therefore more than likely isn't scum. You can't really criticize connections until/unless you know an alignment involved.He seems to have hitched himself early on to the Scigatt bandwagon and followed Neko's lead, not contributing much to the inquisition except making an QFT post and leaving it at that.
I never pulled a 180. The two stances, that scigatt could use some pressure and that neko's tone was that of someone trying to lead the town, are not contradictory or even related. Just because I agreed with neko earlier doesn't mean I have to continue to do so for the rest of the game. If someone you think is town does something a bit suspicious, are you going to not call them out on it because you think they're town? Not so much. That said, I really do think neko is town, and the part of his post I criticized there was the only part that wasn't obviously really protown.And the wagon had run it's course he quickly pulled a 180 and started claiming that Neko seemed to be trying to lead the town. That also seemed to be the most content filled post he's had so far.
And the fact that that's my most contributive post doesn't matter. It's page 4, calm down.
Why not? Are you saying my carrying on an argument that was of little (but not no) significance is indicative of alignment? That's what it seems like, given that you start your post with a vote and follow with a list of reasons why you voted that way. And it wasn't entirely pointless, anyway. You'll notice I stopped arguing when I determined that it was disintegrating into a simple difference of opinion.After that he carried on a pointless argument for much of page 4.
Why, Cephrir, carry on an argument you knew was pointless?"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Um... no? Just because I agree with him once doesn't mean I plan to ride on his coattails all game...Snix wrote:
I'm not trying to connect you to Neko. Far from it; because Neko, ATM, seems very pro-town. What I was trying to do was point out the fact that you just seemed to have found an easy ride to pro-towndom and hoped on. That's all.Cephrir wrote: I love pressuring people to get reactions. It works really well. And by the way, agreeing with people (especially when they're so right it hurts) is not a scumtell. Especially if that player isn't dead and therefore more than likely isn't scum. You can't really criticize connections until/unless you know an alignment involved.
I didn't have a problem with it, because he was right, pressure is good. I didn't see it as him leading the town at that point, I saw exactly what he was talking about and thought it was a pretty good idea. You are really making something out of nothing here.Snix wrote:
It's not the stances you took it's that fact that it was really obvious he was taking us by the hand and dragging us along before the wagon had ended and yet you jumped on without saying anything about it. When finally the wagon ends you seem to have a sudden revelation.Cephrir wrote:I never pulled a 180. The two stances, that scigatt could use some pressure and that neko's tone was that of someone trying to lead the town, are not contradictory or even related. Just because I agreed with neko earlier doesn't mean I have to continue to do so for the rest of the game. If someone you think is town does something a bit suspicious, are you going to not call them out on it because you think they're town? Not so much.
I never critisized Xtoxm, neko did. My argument with him was basically over what "contribution" means.Snix wrote:
But you criticize others for it.Cephrir wrote:And the fact that that's my most contributive post doesn't matter. It's page 4, calm down.
[/quote]Snix wrote:
Because it was pointless that's why not. No, I'm saying it helped no one and did nothing.Cephrir wrote: Why not? Are you saying my carrying on an argument that was of little (but not no) significance is indicative of alignment? That's what it seems like, given that you start your post with a vote and follow with a list of reasons why you voted that way. And it wasn't entirely pointless, anyway. You'll notice I stopped arguing when I determined that it was disintegrating into a simple difference of opinion.
What's your point? It's not like scum are more likely to carry on pointless argueements.
You're digging pretty hard where there's nothing to dig up, Snix. Look at your response to me. Do any of those points even really indicate scuminess, nevermind the fact that they're wrong? Didn't think so."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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No. No, it really isn't. Some players play almost entirely based on gut, and some of those players are very good.Xtoxm wrote:Gut = Random.
@Jester: i think you're overreacting to Near a little bit. Sarcasm as a cover-up for scummy behavior? That's one of the strangest attacks I've heard recently."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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You forgot 3) You are scum trying to apply pressure to someone hoping they slip up. Not that I subscribe to that opinion, but scum don't always act like scum. That's the idea, at least.I conceded that the way I made the proposal could *sound* ridiculous. You judge for yourself. I guess there are two options: 1) I am scum and I am trying to explicitly get a bandwagon going on scigatt or 2) I am townie and I am trying to apply pressure to someone I find semi-scummy."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Everything to say on the matter has been said. I don't think it's a tell.Marmalade wrote:However, I am curious about the fact Cephrir ignores what has been happening recently (e.g. regarding Yvonne) and has merely questioned Snix's vote in his most recent post.
I've been posting few and short posts in this game, and I'm not sure why. I apologize, it'll probably pick up at some point."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Getting away with not helping? Having no connection to your scumbuddies because you never mention anyone? Seriously, what is with the intentional tunnel vision. Even if you don't think anyone else is scum, could you at leastWhat do you think I'm currently trying to accomplish as scum?saythat and/or say who you think is protown? Or dosomething?"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Huh? Since when? I have never heard of this, and I entirely disagree. Long posts full of reasoning are often a protown thing to do, with lots of analysis so that everyone can follow you line of reasoning to a vote.ThAdmiral wrote:I normally don't like long posts followed by a vote, as this is often a ploy used by mafia to conceal a simple bandwagon hop
It can help... but are we really draggingHis post also got me thinking - do you reckon it would be a good idea if we were all to do a list of the players and our thoughts on them?
I know this is sometimes frowned upon as mafia can use it as a guide on who to kill (i.e. the person most people think is pro-town), but I think it would help the game, and discussion, get moving without the need of a deadline to compel us.thatbadly? Activity seems to me to be picking up.
I don't think I've mentioned much about the Yvonne thing-- there are definitely two reasonable sides to it. Scum might want to bus a useless scumbuddy, but they might also prefer a replacement as well, so that they have a more useful scumbuddy. I don't think anyone should be jumping too far to conclusions based just on this.
I just re-read ThAdmiral's posts. I think I see a little bit of what Yvonne is seeing. Or actually, judging from what she's posted, I think I see something entirely different. Her case is... lacking, after all. ThAd voted for Near in the name of self-preservation, which I don't like. Self-preservation is not that important. And there's also his most recent post, which is odd, as he finds long posts followed by a vote suspicious (wtf?). But it's not just that. I get a scummy gut feeling from him, I guess. And I don't really have any other candidates who might be scum...
Vote: ThAdmiral"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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You should have said that, then...ThAdmiral wrote:To expand on my original statement - I normally don't like long posts (generally listing all the alive players and the way the poster feels about them) which rehash things that have already been said by other players and then finish with the vote going on the person who already has the most.
Jester: V/LA happens. It's OK."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Read: "You're not doing much to get out of it... because you called me scum."Snix wrote:
It's reasonable to backlash at the people who want you dead but you're predesesor had dug herself a deep hole and you aren't doing much to try and get yourself out of it. IMOEctomancer wrote: @Xtoxm - Why don't you just wear a T-shirt that says "I'm scum!"? Snix, you could wear the T-shirt that says "I'm with the goon" with an arrow that points to Xtoxm.
I could go for an Xtoxm lynch, but would still prefer ThAdmiral. Never did think Yvonne was scum, still don't.-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dizzy- Um... I don't agree, he absoltuely has. Like, he's stopped rampaging after ThAdmiral.
Ecto- Alright, if you're going to point it out yourself... that's actually quite helpful. Thank you. Now I don't have to think about it anymore.
FoS: Dizzy, by the way."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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My vote currently might as well be on three people-- ThAdmiral for stuff I already said, Xtoxm for stuff a bunch of people already said, and Dizzy for recent stuff, predominantly fishing and being wrong. I need to read things over a bit to decide which one I want to vote for, but I may as well leave it where it is now. I sort of thought Yvonne was softclaiming and exaggerated my feelings about ThAdmiral, but I still do find him suspicious.Marmalade wrote:1. Cephrir, why are you still voting for ThAdmiral?
Snix, that trio theory of yours is positively silly.Snix wrote:I'd also like to point out, although this could just be coincidence, that the Yvonne(ectomancer), Neko, Scigatt trio seems to all have jumped on Xtoxm.
/disagree.Scigatt wrote:nothing like that, I just thought your tactics were a little dubious.-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I'm inclined to give Xtoxm a bit more breathing room than I would to most people because he always played like this, the active lurking part at least. I do think he's even scummier than he usually is, though. ThAdmiral's most recent posts make me feel a bit better, he's still my third candidate but significantly behind Dizzy and Xtoxm. I have no problem with neko's play at the moment, I don't really see what the problem is. His most recent was nice in outlining the case against Xtoxm.
I definitely would prefer to see where aUnvote, Vote DizzyIzzygets us."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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You stole my thunder, I was going to do thatMarmalade wrote:Xtoxm wrote:Long days are not advantages to town.
But they do get quite boring. Especially when the posting frequency is low.
You know, I don't really care who's lynched anymore.unvote, vote: xtoxm
That was one of the worst posts I have ever seen, Xtoxm, but I'm not going to bother voting because, at this rate, someone else will probably do something worse within a few posts. I'll stick with Dizzy for now; there are at least 4 people I'd like to see pressured and hopping my vote everywhere isn't going to help.
Prepost edit: Missed a couple posts. Xtoxm's threat to selfvote is awful. Snix's reusal to respond to neko's case is also awful, but nonethelessUnvote, Vote Xtoxm, die scum die.
Why are there so many scum in a game with 3 scum?-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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"Hey, could one of my scumbuddies counterclaim so we can get the Cop lynched?"DizzyIzzyB13 wrote:Ah, yes. The cop claim. How... expected. I eagerly await the counter-claim that seems the next logical step, so that we may decide which cop claimer is real.
Why on earth would a scum claim Cop under pressure from one player (who is pretty scummy), and they themselves are looking fine? What could you possibly think his thought process is? "Duurrrr, I'll just kill myself now because I want to get ThAdmiral lynched so badly"... like, whaaaaat? Or, of course, you're scum, which is looking even more likely every time you post. Yvonne couldn't have looked any more like a Cop with a guilty without claiming, and yet you fished after Ecto just in case the scum hadn't noticed.... yeah, cool, we caught 2 scum on D1.-
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Wow, I didn't even see her say that. Holy crap. I don't think there's any situation when lynching the town Cop is "the best play for town". I'm glad this setup is open, otherwise I'd be worried about a Jester. This is ridiculous.Marmalade wrote:Dizzy wrote:Even if you are a cop, I feel the best play for the town at the moment is to lynch you and find out whether you are or not. That way, if for some shocking reason you do come up cop, we can lynch ThAdmiral and get rid of scum.
Major Fos: Dizzy
This could only come from scum -- there is no way that a townsperson wouldevercome up with such a plan.
Haven't checked the vote count in a while, but if it was safe enough, I would vote ThAdmiral. The reason I am not going to yet is because he needs to weigh in before we do anything.
Coaching?Xtoxm wrote:The cop has a guilty on him. He doesn't need to weigh. Were I him i'd either counter immeditley or say nothing again. It looks like he's gone with the latter.
You're still pretending to be certain despite the lack of counterclaim... wow. Awful scum play, and I'm not even considering that you might be town anymore tbh.Dizzy wrote:Oh, and it has crossed my mind that he might be innocent. It's a notion that's been carefully considered and eventually beaten out by the greater probability that he's scum. I would be genuinely shocked if he wasn't, to be honest, and I'd be about as happy as a townie could be to be lynched if it meant lynching him.
Gee, I dunno, maybe because then the scum could NK whoever they want?Why? It seems logical to me - lynching him would confirm him. If he comes up cop and, as he says, he was going to be NKed anyway, it's not like we're losing an investigation and tomorrow we lynch ThAdmiral knowing he's scum. If he's not, as I believe, then we lynch scum today.
Nothing short of a Cop with a guilty could stop me voting Dizzy right now... I think it's pretty funny that such an obvious scum gets to live an extra day.-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Why not? More talking is always better for town, because it allows anyone who might be NKed that Night the chance to leave some more detailed thoughts behind (though that doesn't apply too much to this situation since we all but know who will be NKed), and it gives scum more oppurtunities to slip up in total, as well as more chances to slip up while the to-be-NKed player is around to notice it."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Mm, in a situation with a confirmed scum it's different, but in general this is not the case, and it seemed that Xtoxm was making a broad argument.Ectomancer wrote:Without beating everyone with a stick and making them make some kind of committed opinion of the days events (and the value of that is actually decreasing), I dont think you are going to get much of scum slipping up further from this point.
I'd say end the day. If you have something that needs said, put it out there and lets get this done.
I would still lynch Dizzy tomorrow.
Dizzy is still looking worse every post, and I didn't think she could get much worse.-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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ThAdmiral's posts aren't telling me much. THis is a little weird-
But that's about it. He also attacked Dizzy, along with basically everyone else, so that doesn't tell us much. I'll have to check everyone else's posts for connections to him.ThAdmiral wrote:Xtomx is very curt.
Is he always this concise?
I say, Xtomx - are you being brief on purpose or is this just the way you go about your business usually?-
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I don't know about the others, but I know you thought I was scum yesterday. What changed your mind? I think Dizzy was trying to fish subtly and got caught, then was forced to stick to her position, maybe. Regardless of alignment it was a pretty bad play, but I think she is likely scum. James- if you and Snix basically did the same thing, and you hypothetically know you're town, couldn't a townie make the same mistake? Not that I have that opinion, but still.Xtoxm wrote:I think neko, Cephrir, Scigatt, Marmalade are town.
I can see Dizzy being a misguided townie on the cop thing, and tbh, whatever she is, I think she really believed what she was saying cos is scum really gonna argue for that?
I highly doubt it.-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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So I reread everyone's posts in isolation, looking specifically for connections to ThAdmiral and when/if/how people mention him. I may mention other things I find suspicious, and things surrounding Yvonne and the Cop claim, but connections were the intended focus.
JamesThePhox- Defended ThAd a little, has so far spent today being suspicious of Snix for reasons that also apply to him, though I do see his point and to an extent agree with it.
Jester- Didn't mention ThAd once. Little opinion either way on Yvonne. Looking forward to hearing from SL because I'm not sure what to think of Jester.
Marmalade- Seems like he just didn't realize Yvonne/Ecto was the Cop for a while. Inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt because I think he's town.
Near- Votes ThAdmiral for no apparent reason, possibly realized Yvonne was the Cop. Mentions Yvonne/ThAdmiral pairing. Basically a lurker.
Neko- Didn't seem to notice Yvonne was the Cop, then claims at the end of the day that he was pretty sure she was, but his actions and votes don't reflect this.
Scigatt- A few small and passive attacks on ThAd, never really acts on this.
Snix- Went after Yvonne. Suspicious of Ecto later, points out a Cop crumb.
Xtoxm- Voted Yvonne and advocated lynching rather than replacing her. Says nothing ThAd has done suggests he might be scum, which would be a pretty extreme statement to make about a scumbuddy. In his LoS, he lists ThAd as tonw and Ecto as scum. Sort-of coached ThAd to shut up.
I don't see any point analyzing Dizzy tbh because I'm going to want to lynch her regardless.
Hmmm. That didn't really change much for me, still most suspicious of Dizzy, Xtoxm and Snix. Scigatt did behave sort of like a scumbuddy towards ThAd, but I don't think that's terribly significant. Jester/SL is now sort of on my scumdar because ignoring a scumbuddy is also common, but I can't really read him otherwise. Doubt anything is going to change my vote today, and Dizzy really isn't helping herself, voting me because she thinks I'm town and ignoring Xtoxm even though he was 100% right.
Vote: Dizzy
Dizzy, if you are town, you need to leave us with some concrete suspicions. Keeping secrets is no good when you're probably going to be lynched. I'm thinking you may be pulling a ThAdmiral at this point (giving us as little to go off of as possible)-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Care for a little OMGUS with your scum pie? Has it occured to you that you've actually been acting scummy or is being the top suspect of EVERYONE not enough to convince you?
Perfect and SL need to contribute before the day ends, I suppose. I don't see a whole lot else getting accomplished today that hasn't been already.-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Me 490 wrote:Dizzy, if you are town, you need to leave us with some concrete suspicions. Keeping secrets is no good when you're probably going to be lynched. I'm thinking you may be pulling a ThAdmiral at this point (giving us as little to go off of as possible)"I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
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Cephrir he/himSurvivorhe/him
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