mini #585 - A Tempest Has Formed (Over), Thanks Patrick!!

[Matt_S]

Hello everyone.

Unvote

if my predecessor was voting. I've done a quick read of the game already, and I'll do a bigger one tomorrow sometime. Now for a player analyisis.

CoheedCambria09

Well, he's new. I don't have much experience with newb scum tells, but he seems to have played fairly decently for someone new. Withholding judgment for now.

ashmite84

, a.k.a. Skruffs
I seem to be seeing an early fixation on Mellowed Man. I find it slightly odd when people end up being suspicious of those they random vote. Didn't really seem to post much. Mildly scummy, would like to hear replacement.

Cream147

Makes strong attacks on alvinz95 which sound logical. Could be distancing though. I'm thinking protown.

iamausername

Bandwagons evilgorillaz... for bandwagoning. Oh, irony. Later votes Mellowed Man because he is more wagonhoppy. Other than that, I agree with most of the things he says. Neutral.

Elias_the_thief

Doesn't do much. He says he's always like this day 1, though. I want to see some content on Day 2. Withholding judgment.

Evilgorillaz

Attacked relatively hard for switching votes. Attacked for not providing meta. Not attacked for this: "Honestly, alvinz's play comes off more like excited townie (power role maybe?). " Calm down with the rolefishing. Overall, a little scummy, but attacked for the wrong reasons.

Marmalade

He makes a good attack against CoheedCambria09, and he also has a good stance on providing meta and ICs lurking. He's pretty protown.

Mellowed Man

He has made nonrandom votes on CoheedCambria09 and alvinz95. He backs them up with little logic. Pretty scummy.

Gaspode

Opens with a bunch of FOS's. His vote on alvinz95 seems a bit wagony. He FOS's Cream147 when Cream147 and alvinz95 were in the middle of their argument. I'm probably being paranoid, but this smells a bit like scum distancing between the three. It's too early for that though. A bit protown.

alvinz95

I really dislike his stance on Elias_the_thief. He seems to be trying to get an easy wagon on somebody experienced. Besides that, he has been unimpressive. Pretty scummy.

populartajo

He switches his stance on alvinz95 pretty quickly. Uses a WIFOM defense of alvinz95("newbie scum wouldn't do that", lol). He also links Evilgorillaz, Mellowed Man, and Cream147 pretty simply. Two of the people didn't bandwagon the wagonhappy guy, big whoop. He seems to be shooting in the dark almost. I smell scum.

Now to read about 70 pages of The Grapes of Wrath

[Matt_S]

A wagon? Why would I want to start a wagon on Elias?

Lynching experienced people is good for scum. You could try and say that's not good because he was lurking at the time, but a lurker is bound to show up eventually.

What shocks me the most is that you've taken a liking to creams arguments. Most of the arguments he puts on the table are quite pathetic.

Logical, WTF? Can you tell me why you find logical in his attacks?

Logical=/=right. Cream's logic that Elias isn't more likely to be scum than the other lurkers is logical. Being suspicious of someone because of an FOS that appears uncalled for is logical. Cream took the attack further than I would have, but he does a good job of keeping his arguments based on logic rather than lies and WIFOM.

Whats the problem with that point? Only scum use WIFOM?

It has no place in proper arguments. Townies have no reason to make improper arguments.

I've already stated that there was something wrong with that post but now I feel that he's more and more the alvinz from another game I played with him.

I still think it's a pretty sudden switch for you to make.

I sicnerely believe there's at least one scum in this group. Yes, believe me.

Again though, all they did was not bandwagon the guy who appeared to love bandwagoning.

If you hadn't noticed, I'm very liberal in analyzing people's motives: I won't necessarily believe your stated motives(especially if you state them after the fact), but you're free to do the same for me.

[Matt_S]

So, continuing that line, I Would suggest that if cream is scum, then this post might be clearing whoever Alvin is underfire for using bad logic on.

Assuming I'm reading the rest of your post the same way, I came to the opposite conclusion that Cream as scum would be defending a scumbuddy from bad logic.

The idea of asking for "evidence" or hard information of some kind can often be considered a tell--it increases the chances that the poster has some sort of inside info (which could mean cop, scum, or various other things). See jeep's "ScumTells" for a more in-depth description.

I've only heard of this tell used for newbie cops in the past, but I'd hate to call it a town tell of any sort.

[Matt_S]

EBWOP: Where can I read about jeep's scumtells?

[Matt_S]

Not a fan of his policy of ignoring coheed.

I think waiting a while for Coheed to get a feel for things will give us better tells. I'm not entirely comfortable with letting him slide today, but I've seen quite a few newbies act the same way. I don't particularly like the odds. However, I'll reread him and see if I've been cutting him too much slack.

[Matt_S]

Are you suggesting that Im lying? About the WIFOM thing, I've used it a million times as townie since its not 100% true but it can give us an idea of why is he doing or not doing that.

The lying part was simply an alternative to logic. The only thing related to you is the WIFOM. While using WIFOM can help get a feel for why a person's acting some way, it can also be wrong, and using it only when you think it's right simply leads to confirmation bias. If you think it's useful, there's probably other evidence against him that made you think that.

Also why do you think Cream took the attack further that you would have. That doesnt bother you?

No, it doesn't bother me because I think I tend to play safely. I've seen townies attack viciously before, so I see no reason to think there's anything necessarily wrong with how Cream acted.

And?

It usually takes big things to make big flips. I didn't see anything big before you changed your mind, which makes me think your suspicions weren't well based.

Mmm, my suspcions about them go beyond that. Reread please.

Well, your suspicions of Mellowed Man look to be because he has suspicions of alvinz95 that you don't have, and your suspicions of Cream147 seem to be because you dislike his logic. Overall, it still looks to me like you're linking them together for having different suspicions that you do.

And I've done a reread of CoheedCambria09. My opinion is largely unchanged, but I'd like more contributions from him. He seems to either go on gut or follow other people's logic most of the time. I don't think he's a good play for today.

[Matt_S]

Alvinz, since you admit that that wasn't scumhunting, why did you think it would help the town?

It would help discussion moving as I said before... Like random votes get discussion rolling but they aren't scum-hunting.

Random voting is one of the only ways to get the game started. Baselessly accusing someone of being scum, seriously or not, is neither required nor desired. What kind of discussion did you think would start?

[Matt_S]

First of all I never hardly suspected Alvinz, I simply said that I didnt like his first posts, like they felt something wasnt right, but as the game progressed he seemed to be more protown, (the agressive style from his previous game), specially when he answered to Cream accusations. So I still dont see the big flip you're talking about.

True. I guess the fact that you pointed out your change of opinion made me look at you too hard.

Well it bothers me since Im really disliking his logic. Could you tell me where else did he act viciously against anyone else? Also, would someone attacking viciously would post something like

Sorry I haven't posted as much as I like people! I'm not intentionally lurking, though it's quite clear that I am lurking. I haven't got into the feel of this game yet. However, I have just gave it a quick reread and that has got me back into the swing of things. I am not liking alvinz at the moment for several reasons.

As I've mentioned, I'm withdrawing out of my argument with alvinz. I agree with the general consensus that there really is no point now.

I alsol play safely and even you think he took the attack far too much. But why? Theres something, strange, dont you think?

You make a good point. Cream147 does seem to be focusing his aggressive attacks solely on alvinz95. Being aggressive to only one person does seem odd.

if the no voters would vote for someone, who would it be

Probably Mellowed Man. But my list is still moving around quite a bit.

What specifically has changed so drastically about the game since Jeep wrote the article? To me, the style of play seems similar, except that people tend to talk a whole lot more than they used to (most mini games tended to be done around now, pagewise).

As for LynchAllLiars, I agree that lynching to enforce a meta isn't the most practical method, but I think the principles behind why you shouldn't lie are legit, and worth a read.

While I haven't dissed the scumtells, I'm not convinced that they are still as useful as they were. I don't like making decisions by looking at a list. Some of the tells seem kind of outlandish, like 3rd or 4th on a bandwagon are more likely to be scum. I agree with you on lynch all liars.

[Matt_S]

My reason for being aggressive on only one person is simple. If I saw other people just as scummy as alvinz, I would have done it to them then, however now, as that only results in making ME look scummy, I don't think it's an effective way to play anymore.

I used to think that it was scummy to back down from a position people disliked, but it sounds too much like being defensive. However, I've still got my eye on you.

What do you think about Mellowed Man?

[Matt_S]

Can you back-up "he has been unimpressive"?

I don't like the way he joined the gorillaz wagon. I don't like the way he mentioned Elias. I don't like his accusation of populartajo and the way he connects you to populartajo.

What do you think about Mellowed Man?

Is this directed towards me? If it is, then I find him quite scummy. I don't like his votehopping. I also don't like his most recent vote on you just after you asked that question. I also find him 'forgetting' his complaint about post 100 by iamausername quite strange.

I'm primarily interested in your opinion. Why did you find alvinz more scummy than Mellowed Man, and do you still find alvinz scummier?

[Matt_S]

I have a concern about you Matt. My concern is that you are trying to forge some link between you and I. Maybe you are trying to make me look like your scumbuddy? First you defend me, then you question me and ask me lots of questions. This is all common scum behaviour towards their scumbuddy. Don't think I don't notice.

K, whatever. I looked at your attack on alvinz in a new way.

[Matt_S]

Very defensive, publicly-intentional-distancing post there, cream. First time as scum?

Or maybe town who doesn't wish mafia to try any sneaky tricks? I'm just starting to get concerned that Matt is trying to drag people into thinking we're a team with his posts. Being as many people think I'm scummy already, I'm a good target also.

Actually, I'm trying to find out why your aggression was focused on alvinz when Mellowed Man seemed to be just as good of a target for pressure. But go ahead and keep making accusations.

[Matt_S]

Suppose Matt is lynched, and he turns up scum (again, I'm not actually saying this is the case). If we look like an obvious scumpair, then who is the person who you will naturally lynch after him? And people will easily believe that I'm scum, because as I said, I'm a good target. I'm not even saying this is the case, I was just bringing up the possibility, to discourage Matt from doing it if that is what he is doing.

Your scenario would imply that you'd need someone else's help to be lynched. Given what other people are saying, this doesn't sound true.

[Matt_S]

Sorry iamausername, I haven't vanshied, and it doesnt matter to me if you think that was a mistake, I was just posting about what I saw on the page. As for not posting recently, I just havent found somewhere to jump into this game.

You were posting suspicions and giving FOS's and all sorts of things earlier. There's no reason for you to suddenly not have anything to act on.

[Matt_S]

Now, if I say I am going to be gone for ten days you won't be outraged, right?

I just think you have the whole concept of cases versus voting wrong. If you think someone is scum - you vote them and you don't care what their response is, you spend your time asking everyone else. Why would you want to talk to scum about wether they are scum or not? If you were face to face with Satan himself (theoretically and just assume he's real for this purpose) would you give him the chance to convince you he wasn't actually evil?

I don't personally drop cases on anyone unless A) a third party has invested themself in defending that player, B) someone else does something that makes me think of THEM as the most scummy player, or C) I have doubts about my belief in that player.

So yes, you can be as outraged as you want, I just think that saying "I'll just drop it for now" is a cop out, because wether he's here or not you can bring to light what you think is scummy about them and let other people discuss it.

I see where you're coming from, but attacking someone when they can't defend themselves is low.

And I'm going to have to follow suit with the limited access people. AP US History and AP English Language are going to suck. I'll be back to regular access in a week.

[Matt_S]

I do not get the impression that MM is scum.

Vote : Cream147

Is this impression just gut, or do you have a reason to believe this? Oh yeah, and do you have any reasons for that vote?

[Matt_S]

Are you asking me if I am a cop?

I'm asking if there's anything Mellowed Man's done that makes you think he's not scum

[Matt_S]

I've looked at the two games he has died in: Pick Your Poison and Mini 562. In both games he was town, in PYP he was wrung up day one. He reminds me of Disciple Slayer and some other newer players; they talk in a way that draws attention to thema nd do not know how to adequately defend thsemves. In short, day one lynch bait.

I see him providing some reasons in those games. I don't see him providing reasons(or good ones at least) in this game. I also see him self hammering accidentally in one of those games, which I'd hardly put on the same level as a real lynch. Even so, this isn't anything but a null tell unless you have games where he's dead scum.

In short, I am not sure what you are asking me, Matt_S. It's such a bizarre statement; and it reminds me of "Guilty until Proven Innocent" - which isn't going to happen day one, is it? Which is odd because were also looking for a reason to suspect Cream147.

Except that Mellowed Man looks scummy to me, so I have reasons to think that he's scum.

Is there anything Cream147 has done that makes you think he's not scum?

Not recently, but then again I'm not saying that he's town anymore.

[Matt_S]

So what about Mellowed Man has your attentions on him? I may have missed it, but basically I see you as a non-voter saying that you would vote him (but that your vote is moving around a bit), then a series of asking people why they are focusing on one person over another. But I don't see you saying where exactly what he has done or said that seems scummy to you.

Yeah, you must have missed my original post where I criticize Mellowed Man for not giving good reasons for his votes.

And I might be missing something, but it sounds like you are trying to corral other people into voting him - without really putting yourself in the limelite in doing so. To me, scum are much more likely to be in your shoes than in MEllowed Mans, in day ones.

Actually, I'm waiting for people like you to defend someone without actually defending them. And you still haven't really explained why you think Mellowed Man is town, except by looking at games where he's been lynched as town. It seems you never mentioned evilgorrilaz' reluctance to provide meta, which seems odd since your defense of Mellowed Man relies heavily on meta. I could speculate why this is, but the simpler thing to do is call you scum.

[Matt_S]

What does EG have to do with this? If I remember correctly, you told him to sstop rolefishing, said he was scumym, and then dismissed the argument agains thim by saying he attacked for the wrong reasons. What are the right reasons?

He's just an example. I'll ignore the fact that you have my stance on him mixed up a little. My point is that the only way you can defend Mellowed Man is by pointing at his meta, yet you seem to be fine with evilgorrilaz not giving his meta.

How exactly is the right way to say someone is town, day one? I mean what am I supposed to look for to know that someone is town or not? I Am relying on my own experience in games and what I see of MM's postings and I gave my opinion; but you apparently think ti's more suspicious to not immediately agree with everyone that he is scum (which you yourself have been heavy handedly trying to get other players to do) than to do so?

Well, when the player has done scummy things, such as forgetting reasons for attacking someone and not giving explanations for votes and failing to provide promised content, there's probably a better defense than listing meta that has him doing things not nearly as damning. And if you can't defend him, then find someone else scummy instead. Additionally, you're misrepresenting my reasons for finding you scummy. It's not because you are dissenting. It's because you are dissenting for poor reasons, which makes me think you either have inside info, or are defending a buddy.

You haven't voted at all today, and have spent most of your time criticizing other people for voting 'for hte wrong reasons' or with 'bad logic'.

However, if 'good logic' was as easy as you seem to expect everyone else to be able to find, then wouldn't you have already been able to use good logic to cast a vote yourself? Instead of just not voting and criticizing other people's votes on people you don't agree iwht?

Again misrepresenting my position. I've questioned populartajo for switching his stance on alvinz so quickly and for connecting people for what I perceived as poor reasons, then I questioned Cream for his fixation on alvinz, and I questioned alvinz for his stance on Elias. Not only was the majority of my discussion about things other than votes, but you seem to think that pressuring people is bad. And since it's time for Mellowed Man to return, I'll

vote Mellowed Man

, for reasons listed earlier. Do you remember how I was against attacking people who couldn't defend themselves? Yeah, so stop accusing me of not voting when the person I'm suspicious of is away.

[Matt_S]

I'm not defending MellowedMan by his meta, I'm ignoring the wagon because it is a CLASSIC day one 'easy target' wagon. I haven't seen a wagon on a target like MellowMan day one ever hit scum.

WHY would scum draw such vblatant attention to them in the beginning of the game by 'forgetting' why they are voting someone? Why would scum be so vested in randomly trying ot get someone lynched in the beginning of hte game that they would not think that through? You are implying that MEllowedMan is a sloppy player, not scum, and I agree with you. HE *Is* playing sloppily. But that, on day one, does not make him likely to be scum.

You are accusing me of being scummy because I disagree with you for 'poor reasons', and the reason I am disagreeing with you is because the case on MEllowed man is built on poor reasons.

I have seen such a wagon hit scum, and I opposed it for the same reasons. And FYI, forgetting reasons is a great excuse for abandoning an unpopular position. I see this as a player pretending to be sloppy to get away from pressure.

You were, incidentally, quick to drop the argument that you don't vote for players who aren't there to defend yourself when it fitted you. BBut Hypocrisy sems to be your strong suit:

I fail to see when I "dropped" anything. How exactly am I a hypocrite?

So focussing solely on one person is scummy? But your constant pulling of attention away from Alvinz and towards MEllowed Man isn't?
And now pulling attention away from Cream147 and towards MEllowed man, that's not the same thing? Trying ot put the burden of proof of innocece on someone, day one, as a reason to lynch them?

Maybe you don't get it. I find someone scummy, and I think it's not a big deal to ask for evidence that they aren't scummy. And yes, fixations are generally bad, which is why I thought Cream was distancing a buddy. By the way, it's not the same, because I've spent a good deal of time on populartajo, Cream, you, and now Mellowed Man.

Can you please quote the post where you listed your reasons for why you were going to vote MEllowed Man? Because I can't really find where *you* said that you would lay off of MEllowed man until he returned.

I listed my reasons in the post right before yours("forgetting reasons for attacking someone and not giving explanations for votes and failing to provide promised content"), and I may have a few others in my first post. And I could swear that I said it was low to attack someone who couldn't defend themselves.

What if I come up town? Your reaction here will then become bogus. All he was saying was that evidence was not substantial enough to warrant so much attention. You think he's defending a buddy, when actually you are trying to breadcrumb to your own buddies to start voting me, that I Am the One to go after today, the most vulnerable.

Why do you ignore the option where I legitimately find you scummy? However, if you turn up town, that doesn't remove the possibility that Skruffs is scum who knew you would be town. And I notice that you still haven't explained your vote on me very well.

[Matt_S]

But you are saying Cream147 is scummy for focussing 'too much' on Alvinz when you were at the SAME time doing the SAME thing on Mellowed Man!

I wanted to see why Cream wasn't going after Mellowed Man the same way he went after alvinz by waving Mellowed Man in front of his nose.

There is NO way to PROVE anyone is town without revealing oneself to be a cop, not day one, not before there have been any lynches or nightkills. For you to use it as a reason to incriminate someone is BOGUS. IF you don't agree with me, then Prove to me right now that YOU are town. IT is apparently not that hard to do; you want me to prove Mellowed Man is town just because I said that the wagon on him was a traditional day one bogus one, so it really can't be hard fo ryou to clear yourself, someone that you actually know the alignment of.

I'm not asking for 100% proof. I'm asking for simple evidence, which nobody has provided to suggest that Mellowed Man is town. However, I do have evidence against Mellowed Man. By a preponderance of the evidence, I'm voting for Mellowed Man.

Also: Thanks for setting up a WIFOM at the end of your last post; mislynch him today and then have an excuse to mislynch me tomorrow. Presumably you won't mind if I Say, "and if me and Mellowed Man both turn up town, lynch Matt_S for intentionally screwing with town".

Actually, I set it up two posts ago when I said you may have inside info on who's town. However, after looking at the roles on the front page, I see that mason is listed, which could explain it. Now don't respond to that part. You can go ahead and lynch me if I'm wrong today.

[Matt_S]

if you thought I was potentially a mason with mm, why would you point it out publicly?

Everyone's potentially a mason with anyone. I don't think it's any more likely than any other pairing, but if it happens it will explain a lot.

Demanding to prove that MM is town as an excuse to strong arm people into voting him.

You again seem to miss the fact that I have evidence against him. Preponderance of the evidence points to him being scum.

[Matt_S]

EBWOP

Thirdindary: Accuses me of inside info and says I should be lynched if MM turns up town, which suggests to me that HE has inside info and is trying to get MM lynched anyways and is then planning the NEXT Mislynch in advance, while simultaneously deflecting attention for the same suspicions off of himself.

I never said it that way. I said that Mellowed Man turning up town doesn't mean you're town.

[Matt_S]

He means that its hippocritical of you to call Mellowed Man scummy for doing what you did.

You're putting words in his mouth.

What is so different from poor reasoning and lack of reasoning?

You're defending the words that you put into his mouth.

[Matt_S]

Rephrase?

I'll put it this way: it's easier to attack a person with somebody else's words, so that you can dodge the blame if the attacks don't work out. However, it doesn't quite work that way.

[Matt_S]

Im very tired atm, can anyone tell me what has happened in the last 2-3 pages?

Arguments. You'd have to read it to get a good understanding.

Also noticing Gaspode and Matt doing some serious attacks against Alvinz, where did this suspicions start?

I'd hardly call it serious for me, but alvinz declares the reasons behind Skruff's questions and then pursues those reasons. It looks like he's trying to hide from blame by following someone else's line of questions.

[Matt_S]

Also noticing Gaspode and Matt doing some serious attacks against Alvinz, where did this suspicions start?

I'd hardly call it serious for me, but alvinz declares the reasons behind Skruff's questions and then pursues those reasons. It looks like he's trying to hide from blame by following someone else's line of questions.

If I believed it was scummy, then I would pursued it immediately, since Cream is already at the top of my suspicions, but I didn't notice it at first. I don't agree with Scruffs tho.

Well, why did you assume to know was why Skruffs asked?

[Matt_S]

Can you show me this scummy behavior?

Top of the page.

You're so lazy and Im so hypocrite.
Can you tell me what feels scummy?

I'll follow your reasoning in a hypocritical way. Saying "so-and-so started acting scummy, so I didn't vote such-and-such" is an excuse to throw suspicion on two people without building a case or even making a vote. So Evilgorrilaz, give reasons rather than just following the crowd and trying to blend in.

Top suspects: Mellowed and Evil. I'm not seeing the scumminess of Cream as much.

[Matt_S]

So Evilgorrilaz, give reasons rather than just following the crowd and trying to blend in.

Exactly. Look at how you jumped on me for lack of reasoning, deeming it scummy. Now look at what alvinz has to say.

There isn't much of a difference between poor reasoning and lack of reasoning. It isn't scummy either.

Even if it's not inherently scummy, what you did was basically make an excuse to avoid voting for someone, by saying that someone else was scummy as well. I think that deserves some explanation.

[Matt_S]

You are insinuating that everyone should assume the person you want us to vote for is guilty until proven innocence.

I don't see how you got that from my post. Evilgorrilaz said himself that Cream was scummy.

There is no reason to be coerced into voting who another player wants to, and they should never be obligated to find reasons NOT to vote someone that they don't want to.

Evilgorrilaz said that he would have voted Cream, but he didn't because someone else started acting scummy. Are you saying that someone can keep calling multiple people scummy just to avoid voting?

The downside is that if the person that they don't want to vote turns up to be scum, that person THEN might be probed and prodded as to WHY they refused to, so it IS better to explain why at first. But only scum's scummates or a cop would KNOW that the person they are refusing to vote is scum in the first place, so demanding reasons for NOT voting someone BEFORE they turn up as town or scum indicates that THAT person (Matt_S in this case) is the person in questions scumbuddy.

Again, Evilgorrilaz said that Cream was scummy, and that he did want to vote for him. He admitted this. Yet he says that he didn't vote him just because somebody else looked scummy.

[Matt_S]

Shit or get off the pot.

I have never actually heard that used in a serious way until now.

I've named my suspects, and I've named some reasons in previous posts way back when.

[Matt_S]

I'm just reporting in before I have to go to my brother's graduation tonight. I won't be able to post anything big until tomorrow.

[Matt_S]

By giving Coheed a little leniency, I was hoping that he'd try a bit harder to contribute. It looks like he's just trying to scoot his way to day 2.

Unvote, Vote CoheedCambria09

. That's called incentive. Sitting back and letting everyone else do the work isn't how townies win games. You had plenty of suspicions early on, so why should it be any different now?

[Matt_S]

That's not quite how things happened, but I understand what you're getting at. I don't think it's the best case, but not going for the most popular wagon can be a good thing.

Unvote

. Make sure all your cases are well grounded though.

[Matt_S]

I'm just glad Coheed's playing the game now.

[Matt_S]

Coheed's doing a very bad job of scumhunting. I also don't really see where the populartajo case came from. Would a no lynch be a good idea in this situation?

[Matt_S]

Coheed's doing a very bad job of scumhunting. I also don't really see where the populartajo case came from. Would a no lynch be a good idea in this situation?

Don't you mean he's "not" scumhunting? How would you know if he's doing a bad job at it or not?

I can't tell if you're being facetious or if you're really dragging semantics into this.

[Matt_S]

Why no vote, Matt?

Cuz I didn't get around to revoting Mellowed Man.

[Matt_S]

Why no vote, Matt?

Cuz I didn't get around to revoting Mellowed Man.

OK, so why not do that now?

Tides are turning. I'd probably move it again soon.

[Matt_S]

Do you like following the tides, Matt_S? BEtter to float than to paddle, right? Less work?

Yeah, I could make more analogies, but I'll cut it off there. The Coheed conflict is reaching its climax, and I need to watch.

[Matt_S]

No, I'm pretty sure it would be better to lynch scum.

Cue someone voting for you in a highly ironic way...... now!

[Matt_S]

I'm not scum though, I am being completely honest, I swear on my life that I'm town, and you'll see that I'm right if you continue to push my lynch. In all probability you could be scum since youd know whose town and whose not.

Zomg, what an amazing case! In all seriousness, no.

[Matt_S]

Claim: Cop, I get to investigate people at night, hence my wanting to get to day 2 (theres a night time in there). I would of been able to help you guys, but since your so adement about my lynch, its not my loss. Have fun continuing your hunt for scum.

It is your loss as well as ours actually. Now, I'm not quite sure how we should approach this. *looks at more experienced players* HELP! Should we lynch him? Should we lynch our second candidate and let him be nightkilled (if he's not nightkilled, he's scum). Should doc save him at night? Please...someone tell me what we should do!

Lynching claimed cops day 1 is bad. Stating your intention to lynch them day 2 is worse.

[Matt_S]

EBWOP: Unfortunately for us, cops don't even have confirmed sanity.

[Matt_S]

I'll wait for the rest of the town to check in with any possible counterclaims before voting, but I highly prefer Mellowed Man over populartajo.

[Matt_S]

Do you want the real cop to counterclaim? Why?

Because if Coheed's scum then he should die? I'd find a counterclaim several days later to be less believable. Who knows if there's a cop? My complete game here didn't have a cop, which the town only found out once a dead watcher and tracker showed up.

Isn't there a chance that we have more than one cop?

I dunno.

And even if Coheed is lying, do we actually want our cop (if we have one at all) to out himself immediately?

I guess I'd be more tempted to answer yes if this weren't semi-open, but it'll sure suck if we get to LYLO before someone counterclaims.

What about the 8 other players in the game besides yourself and Coheed?

They're below Mellowed Man, obviously. That's why I was voting Mellowed Man before.

You know what, Vote: Matt_S. This "I'm going to wait and see how everyone else votes before I commit myself to anything" attitude he's been displaying latey has pushed it over the edge.

You mean the fact that I didn't revote because arguments involving other players could have revealed new info? Or the fact that I'm waiting for responses to someone's claim?

[Matt_S]

I severely doubt we'll be in lylo on D2 though.

If a cop claims on day 2, then all they'll have is an investigation with uncertain sanity. If a cop won't counterclaim now, I'd imagine they won't claim until they get different investigation results which could be a while.

OK, but is anyone besides Mellowed higher than anyone else?

Cream.

[Matt_S]

I'm not lying, my claim is true, thats why I wanted Night and why I was getting so p*ssed off, because now I'm screwed if we don't have doc.

And Just a note, I'll investigate someone tonight, and tell what I find out, but I don't know my sanity, so, my proposition is that a normal townie tell me that they are normal townie, and I will investigate them and see what happens. This is all depending on us having a doc.

That plan backfires if a mafia volunteers.

If you are doubting that there is a cop then why are you expecting someone to counterclaim?

It's called skepticism.

[Matt_S]

True, well, then I'm just gonna investiage someone, if there scum I'll say, If I investigated town I'll keep quiet and try to find scum throughout the day

Announce all results, even innocents.

[Matt_S]

Ok, I'm going to bed now

Lol, timezones.

[Matt_S]

Even if its a power roll?

Eh? Cops just get guilty or innocent. No role info.

[Matt_S]

Even if its a power roll?

I bet Matt_s is going to post before but I dont care. Cop is supposed to get only guilty or innocent.

lol

I told people in another game that I'd be less active in the summer. Stop making me look like a liar.

[Matt_S]

Care to join me against Elias?

No, I'm a rebel!

[Matt_S]

Care to join me against Elias?

No, I'm

a rebel

scum

superman!

Fixed.

Refixed

[Matt_S]

Although Im partially serious with pressuring Elias.

Prods work just fine.

[Matt_S]

alvinz, maybe I missed something, bu were you seriously just fishing for hot to fake claim cop? If you are a cop, it's in your role, and you'll find out tonight how it works. If you aren't, then why does it matter to you?

It might be because the word 'hot' is randomly thrown in there, but I don't get what you're saying.

[Matt_S]

Anyways Ive decided that Cream should be town for that "HELP US, WHAT SHOULD WE DO NOW" post, a while ago.

That exact post struck me as "I have my claimed cop, someone else take over." Of course, I was pretty sore at him already for getting a claim with so few votes. I'm torn though, because he's after Mellowed Man as well, but he would be a prime target for a second claim. I think a

Vote Cream147

is my best move.

[Matt_S]

What I'd like to know from you Matt, is why a claim from me would be any better than a claim from Mellowed Man. Seriously, I'm not seeing where you're coming from. Surely you just vote for the person who you think is most scummy, which you've said is Mellowed Man. So why?

Because I don't think you're getting enough pressure for that reaction.

[Matt_S]

unvote, vote Elias

zomg, you time this stuff to happen right after I vote someone else, don't you?

Unvote, Vote Mellowed Man, FOS Cream

.

[Matt_S]

Actually, that looks to be L-1, which is a little too close for an unclaimed person who people want to kill.

Unvote

[Matt_S]

We get it. You hate the Skruffs wagon.

[Matt_S]

We get it. You hate the Skruffs wagon.

I got confused there. I meant to say you hate the Mellowed wagon.

[Matt_S]

You know,

Unvote

. This evilgorrilaz thing could turn into a better alternative.

[Matt_S]

You know,

Unvote

. This evilgorrilaz thing could turn into a better alternative.

I'm pleased you see where I'm coming from about evilgorillaz. I don't really see the reason in removing your vote from Mellowed Man currently though, unless you were going to place it immediately on evilgorrilaz, which you didn't. Can you explain please?

I want to see evilgorrilaz respond before Mellowed claims, so I unvoted. If evilgorrilaz answers unsatisfactorily, then he gets a vote.

[Matt_S]

The funny thing is that you werent voting for anyone.

You're right. So could you unvote then so Mellowed doesn't claim before evilgorrilaz responds?

[Matt_S]

But I don't want Mellowed to claim if we're going to do something about evilgorrilaz anyways. I suppose an unvote isn't necessary for that, but it sure would help if we're not keeping him at L-2 when we're busy with someone else.

[Matt_S]

Also I still dont see whats the wrong thing about Evilgorrilaz.

Can you explain me?

Evil hops onto an easy bandwagon(Mellowed), with the reason being that Mellowed hopped onto an easy bandwagon. At least I think that's how it's going.

[Matt_S]

Also I still dont see whats the wrong thing about Evilgorrilaz.

Can you explain me?

Evil hops onto an easy bandwagon(Mellowed), with the reason being that Mellowed hopped onto an easy bandwagon. At least I think that's how it's going.

You're a little off the mark. What makes evilgorillaz' action scummy is that he critcises other people for joining the easy wagon of Mellowed Man, yet joins it himself.

I knew I should have looked back to see when Skruffs made that quoted post. I thought it was being applied to the wagonee, not the wagoner.

[Matt_S]

But you still unvoted and then "almost" voted him. Why?

Because he's a hypocrite. I just thought he was a hypocrite in a different way.

[Matt_S]

I'll give him a few more days. It'll sure suck if he has to get replaced.

[Matt_S]

Well, the rational thing would be to hold the replacement accountable. You can't just give replacements a free ride.

[Matt_S]

Well, the rational thing would be to hold the replacement accountable. You can't just give replacements a free ride.

I agree that you can't give them a free ride, but on the other side, we can't expect him to defend Mellowed Man's actions either.

That's why getting replacements sucks.

[Matt_S]

Whoa! Finally things have happened! Now this is actually a mafia game.

Unvote. Vote : Gaspode.

Okthxbai.

I have a few ideas for why you did that, but just to make sure we're on the same page, could you explain? I think it has something to do with the fact that he's commenting on progress that he didn't contribute to.

[Matt_S]

populartajo:
stop trying to orchestrate a quicklynch and answer this:
Where did you see that before?

I can't believe I'm siding with you. popular, putting someone at L-1 and then suggesting that someone hammer them, before getting a claim no less, is... well, dumb.

[Matt_S]

Matt_S has since disappeeared and looks like he is satisfied watching the demise of myself, as I am just a tidbit closer to getting axed.

Dude... I'm waking up at 3 p.m., and I'll keep waking up later as the summer goes on. I can hardly post once a day without getting bored and doing something else. And I've made it clear that populartajo shouldn't have put you at L-1 and asked someone to hammer. I don't see how I've disappeared.

[Matt_S]

Assuming there's a roleblocker when there's a cop and a doc claim isn't all that unreasonable. I do that pretty often. But believing both incredulous claims is interesting. Of the two claims, I'd have to give Coheed's more weight since he can get investigations. Now, this is definitely one of those times where a counterclaim isn't appropriate. However, even if we don't believe Mellowed Man, lynching him day 1 is risky.

[Matt_S]

. Of the two claims, I'd have to give Coheed's more weight since he can get investigations. Now, this is definitely one of those times where a counterclaim isn't appropriate. .

That doesn't really make sense. Coheed as scum would know who's town, etc. and could just say "so and so is innocent" and be right about it, right?

I was going to say that we can test him when he gets a guilty, but then I remembered the sanity thing.

[Matt_S]

I haven't gotten much buddy vibes since Skruffs defended Mellowed Man, but that thought's since diminished. However, I enjoy hearing new opinions.

[Matt_S]

That's L-2. Again.

does anybody think MM's play is how a doctor should play?

What iamausrname said. There's no universal way that people play a doc.

[Matt_S]

Me either, the only thing is that I believed both claims, which is contradictory, cause scum would do the opposite.

Well that's WIFOM if I've ever seen it.

[Matt_S]

alvinz is mentioning his eventual claim, but I don't see when that's going to come. Nor can I see any way for that to affect his views of someone else's claim. Nor can I see the answers to those questions. Nor can I see how posting frequency is necessarily correlated to scuminess, unless they lie about their activity or actively lurk.

[Matt_S]

That doesn't mean that they aren't in game. They are POSSIBLE roles.

They're not just possible roles. They're THE possible roles. That's the point of semi-open games.

Vote alvinz

[Matt_S]

"These are

the

roles you may see in this set-up with an explanation of each."

That, to me, implies that we won't see any other roles. If we would, it'd be worded more like "these are

some

roles you may see in this set-up".

I'm not the only one who sees it this way, right?

You just missed my ninja post. I agree entirely.

[Matt_S]

I think that you can tell who my partner is.

So, you only have one?

IT'S A TRAP!

[Matt_S]

Well, I came home today and logged in and saw this game was day again, but guess what, no pm from patty. So I come in here and see that Mellowed was killed I had investigated him after he cliamed doc (two power claims, suspicious) and i assumed thats why I never got a pm telling me his alignment.

Assuming you're telling the truth, make sure you ask him for your result. It will help with finding your sanity immensely.

And popular, didn't you say that you thought alvinz was town yesterday?

[Matt_S]

I'll believe Coheed's story for now, at least until another night. The no pm thing is just weird though.

Anyway, it's interesting how popular is making scum connections based on someone who he thought was town. You can define interesting however you wish, but I'll define it as questionable.

[Matt_S]

Anyway, it's interesting how popular is making scum connections based on someone who he thought was town. You can define interesting however you wish, but I'll define it as questionable.

I don't find it that interesting. I assume you're suggesting that he and alvinz are a scumpair and he's deflecting attention away.

Popular believed alvinz was town yesterday, yet is making cases based on alvinz' actions yesterday. Of course, the fact that you don't find that interesting reminds me of how you interacted with alvinz yesterday. Given alvinz' alignment, that is much more interesting.

[Matt_S]

Do you want me to still defend him even though his allignment was MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER?

Ignoring that for a moment, you misread alvinz yesterday, yet now you expect to be able to read him like a book. Mafia isn't that simple.

[Matt_S]

Do you want me to still defend him even though his allignment was MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER?

Ignoring that for a moment, you misread alvinz yesterday, yet now you expect to be able to read him like a book. Mafia isn't that simple.

Ok. Give me another plan for today.

Notice how I subtly attacked Cream a few posts ago?

[Matt_S]

Do you want me to still defend him even though his allignment was MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER?

Ignoring that for a moment, you misread alvinz yesterday, yet now you expect to be able to read him like a book. Mafia isn't that simple.

Ok. Give me another plan for today.

Notice how I subtly attacked Cream a few posts ago?

Dont you think we can get info of Alvinz posts?

Yeah, if you know where to look.

[Matt_S]

Are you suggesting that Popular doesn't have the right to make cases about alvinz' possible partners, now that he knows that alvinz was, in fact, scum? Or are you saying that he was defending alvinz today so the cases he makes are probably flawed or intentionally setup because he's alvinz partner? Or what?

I know you can't possibly be saying that popular thought alvinz was town yesterday so he can't look at alvinz in a new light with new information, so I'll assume it's one of hte other two.

Yeah, I am trying to insinuate that popular was alvinz' partner, and is trying to set up a mislynch. And he says he' "pretty sure" Elias is scum, even though, as Elias said, there's no case on him that doesn't involve alvinz' posts. Scum posts can be pretty ripe with false connections, or attempts to mislynch, yet popular goes with the assumption that it was distancing or something. I don't see how alvinz' attacks on Elias look like anything but trying to get an easy wagon.

[Matt_S]

He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

Maybe because he had a scum read on Mellowed? I don't see how that says anything about his alignment on day 2.

[Matt_S]

He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

Maybe because he had a scum read on Mellowed? I don't see how that says anything about his alignment on day 2.

What I said

Additonal fact. He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

I dont blame him for that but I feel he could have pushed Alvinz case better.

Matt do you think Im scum with Alvinz?

You know, you could have also pushed an alvinz case yet didn't. You're actually my number 2 pick for alvinz' buddy, because Cream's interactions yesterday seem like blatant distancing.

[Matt_S]

He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

Maybe because he had a scum read on Mellowed? I don't see how that says anything about his alignment on day 2.

What I said

Additonal fact. He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

I dont blame him for that but I feel he could have pushed Alvinz case better.

Matt do you think Im scum with Alvinz?

You know, you could have also pushed an alvinz case yet didn't. You're actually my number 2 pick for alvinz' buddy, because Cream's interactions yesterday seem like blatant distancing.

Jesus, Matt, I didnt push his lynch because my read all D1 was agressive silly townie. Why would I push his lynch?
Now can you point out those Cream's interactions? Im not seeing them.

And Elias obviously thought alvinz was more town than Mellowed, so why push the alvinz lynch before Mellowed?
And really? You can't see the huge argument over petty things?

[Matt_S]

He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

Maybe because he had a scum read on Mellowed? I don't see how that says anything about his alignment on day 2.

What I said

Additonal fact. He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

I dont blame him for that but I feel he could have pushed Alvinz case better.

Matt do you think Im scum with Alvinz?

You know, you could have also pushed an alvinz case yet didn't. You're actually my number 2 pick for alvinz' buddy, because Cream's interactions yesterday seem like blatant distancing.

Distancing huh? I had my vote on him for most of the day. I endorsed his lynch happily throughout the day. I took my vote off him when coheed looked a better candidate, and then moved to Mellowed before going right back to alvinz. Surely there's a line to draw between distancing and genuine suspicion. Or should suspicion of someone be avoided where possible because it may look too much like distancing.

Not everyone pushed as hard as you did that early on. It reminds me a lot of my first game as scum.

[Matt_S]

I'm slightly confused by the fact that my last post appears to have been ignored entirely by everyone.

I feel better with Cream's connections. My lack of comments about your post was tacit opposition. It's not necessarily a bad case, but Cream going Rambo on alvinz seems so much better to me.

[Matt_S]

Also could you link me to that first game?

There you go.

[Matt_S]

Skruffs has seemed odd most of the game, but Skruffs defending Mellowed-town oddly doesn't seem as odd as Cream attacking alvinz-scum oddly. I really don't feel that Skruffs is the play for today.

[Matt_S]

Well it seems I'm not the only one who hasn't been posting recently. There seems to be a lot of suspicions today that people aren't agreeing on, unlike yesterday. I think that's why today is more boring than yesterday. I still stand by my previous suspicions.

[Matt_S]

I don't like Skruffs' response very much at all.

FoS: Skruffs

.

After a reread of Skruffs today, that could become a vote.

Well I sure wish that reasons would come with that potential vote.

Skruffs, stop misrepresenting me. I gave reasons to believe Mellowed was scummy, and you gave nothing to refute that.

[Matt_S]

I thought it was the belief of the cop and doc claims that got alvinz deadified. I'm not comfortable with a Skruffs lynch today. I don't see the connections between him and alvinz.

[Matt_S]

Eloas: your post was very concillatory; you demand a case against you but claim you will be able to reduce any/all cases to nulltells. This bothers me for the most part because it excuses you from having to make cases, if you extend that line of thought a bit furtheer. So, counter your own argument and form a case against someone or get ready for something you can't nulltell away: my vote.

I think I understand where you're coming from, but I don't know how you got to the conclusion that Elias wouldn't try to make cases.

[Matt_S]

Hi Xtoxm are you the SK?

This post indicates that you already know that he is not in the mafia, and/or you are not interested in knowing if he is in the mafia. Trying to find the SK and not mafia is a mafia-tell.

I'm frightened because I don't know if you're joking.

[Matt_S]

Just realised, with a GF dead, this confirms cop's prescence...So

unvote

without a counter.

Not necessarily. My complete game as scum had a godfather with no cop. He was immune to nightkills.

[Matt_S]

I think i'd have to agree that strong bussing of your GF is unlikely.

I'd think the same thing if I hadn't done the same thing before.

[Matt_S]

I'll be visiting my grandparents tomorrow and will be gone for a couple of days. I won't be able to post until Sunday. Don't do anything fun while I'm gone.

[Matt_S]

A Skruffs lynch is still not part of my schedule for today, though I'm a little disappointed in Skruffs' play today compared to yesterday. It seems a bit OMGUSy. Oh, and an Elias lynch isn't on my schedule for today either, but I'm really just not seeing much of a case there. In other news, I'm bumping Cream down to below populartajo, because of Cream's good behavior lately.

[Matt_S]

A Skruffs lynch is still not part of my schedule for today, though I'm a little disappointed in Skruffs' play today compared to yesterday. It seems a bit OMGUSy. Oh, and an Elias lynch isn't on my schedule for today either, but I'm really just not seeing much of a case there. In other news, I'm bumping Cream down to below populartajo, because of Cream's good behavior lately.

So what

do

you want to do?

Lynch popular.

[Matt_S]

A Skruffs lynch is still not part of my schedule for today, though I'm a little disappointed in Skruffs' play today compared to yesterday. It seems a bit OMGUSy. Oh, and an Elias lynch isn't on my schedule for today either, but I'm really just not seeing much of a case there. In other news, I'm bumping Cream down to below populartajo, because of Cream's good behavior lately.

So what

do

you want to do?

Lynch popular.

Wow, why?
What happened with Cream?

Well, I mentioned that Cream had been acting good lately, but there's a little more to it. One part of it is you calling Alabaska town because he accused you of bussing. Another part is how Elias saying you are now retarded townie is apparently scummy rather than being open minded.

[Matt_S]

One part of it is you calling Alabaska town because he accused you of bussing.

I hate it when people say this to me.

Calling someone town that's accusing you is not scummy.

He's basically saying, "Hey, you're right. You must be town." That just doesn't sit well with me.

[Matt_S]

Fine then, Cream's tied with popular now. Everyone's happy, yay.

It seems that around half the town is under suspicion right now. One would think that would make it easier to get a lynch, but it's not. Elias seems to be the most popular candidate, followed probably by popular or Skruffs if my memory is working right. I'm close behind, and Cream's got me chasing him. We need to find something to agree on. If it comes down to it, I'd be willing to go with an Elias lynch to move forward. For now I'll

vote populartajo

. On a barely related note, I foresee a lot of replacements in the future.

[Matt_S]

Replacements? Who do think's gonna leave?

Nobody yet, but posting frequency is going down for pretty much everyone, and I have a bad feeling about Coheed.

[Matt_S]

For whoever it was that asked, this exchange sums up my major point of contention when it comes to Matt; in that happy period of D1 when things were actually happening, he did a lot of this kind of thing, saying "I'll just wait and see what everyone else does before I commit to a position". Smacks of opportunism.

I'd made my stance clear plenty of times. Just because I waited to vote for someone doesn't mean I didn't have a position already. In the posts you'd quoted, I had stated my position on Mellowed Man already, vote or not.

DOH course you did, however my comment still applies to Matt S

My bad feeling was about his activity. I agree about not voting for him.

[Matt_S]

And I still got ninja'd by three people

[Matt_S]

In the posts I quoted you also stated that your vote would probably end up on someone other than Mellowed Man.

That was around the time that Coheed claimed. Voting Mellowed at the time wouldn't get any attention while Coheed was under pressure, and my did end up going onto Cream instead. Of course, I probably would have voted Mellowed Man if you hadn't tried to bully me into voting earlier. That was the part that pissed me off.

[Matt_S]

Let's just lynch him...

I believe "no u" is the comical phrase I'm looking for.

[Matt_S]

I don't remember seeing a case about Gaspode/Xtoxm being the SK. Is there one?

[Matt_S]

Sounds like for once the "Don't lynch the lurker" party is the minority

There are some of us voting him who actually think he is scum, you know.

lol really? I don't get how everyone is so sure of Elias compared to Cream, but maybe my scum meta is just really crappy.

[Matt_S]

Sounds like for once the "Don't lynch the lurker" party is the minority

There are some of us voting him who actually think he is scum, you know.

lol really? I don't get how everyone is so sure of Elias compared to Cream, but maybe my scum meta is just really crappy.

And yet you are voting pop? I mean I think he's scum too but if you are so sure of Cream you should be voting him IMO.

Hmm, it may have something to do with that qualifier "maybe my scum meta is just really crappy." My case against Cream requires him to be playing as crappy as I did in my first game as scum. As I've said, Cream's been good recently, so I'm beginning to doubt that's the case.

I can see a Matt lynch too.

I don't recall hearing about this before, but I don't recall a lot of things.

[Matt_S]

I don't recall hearing about this before, but I don't recall a lot of things.

I feel strangely left out of post 1059.

The difference between you and Cream is that there are people who think you're scum, yet I seem to be alone thinking Cream could be scum. It wouldn't exactly make sense to say "Gosh, there's sure a lack of people thinking popular's scum" when it'd be a lie.

[Matt_S]

Um Matt, i thought cream was scum to at one point but nobody wanted to listen to me at that point, so your not alone.

That was yesterday though, right? I'm referring to today, with knowledge that alvinz is scum. Today nobody except me has accused him if I recall.

[Matt_S]

It's a tough choice, but I'd have to say B, or C if he doesn't post next week. I have a feeling that he'll post though. Not posting won't help him.

[Matt_S]

If everyone wants a replacement for Elias, I wouldn't be opposed. This game does need something to boost activity.

[Matt_S]

It's a tough choice, but I'd have to say B, or C if he doesn't post next week. I have a feeling that he'll post though. Not posting won't help him.

Do you think he's intentionally not posting?

It's possible, but I doubt it. His only post over the weekend was in another game saying that he had limited access.

[Matt_S]

Do you think he's intentionally not posting?

It's possible, but I doubt it. His only post over the weekend was in another game saying that he had limited access.

So why did you say he'll start posting (as if it were a choice) because not posting wasn't helping him? It sounded like you thought he was gambitting.

You make it sound like I thought he was actively not posting, rather than him just not having access yet. I thought that any inactivity on his part would be out of his control, and thus I wouldn't lynch him for it. I don't know where you got any other interpretation.

[Matt_S]

I have a feeling that he'll post though. Not posting won't help him.

This suggests that you think that the posting IS in his control and that you thought he was intentionally not posting, though.

Try reading that again. I stated that he wouldn't choose not to post because "Not posting won't help him." Since he didn't post, I came to the conclusion that he probably didn't have enough time.

[Matt_S]

It sounds like people are accusing Skruffs of being the serial killer, despite the fact that people didn't want to go after serial killer suspects yesterday. And it also sounds like the case against him is based on WIFOM. What I really dislike is that Xtoxm, the accused serial killer yesterday(though some of the accusations were jokes), put him at L-1. I don't know about populartajo any more. The fact that he didn't back down from his stance seems to fit more with townie than scum.

[Matt_S]

Well I did mention why a few posts earlier.

He's voting Ala, and I can't see a pro-town role genuinely thinking that Ala is scum.

I think he meant this question:

Why are we puting Skruffs at L-1 this fast?

[Matt_S]

I don't see Skruffs being mafia, and at this point I think we need to lynch mafia. Unfortunately, populartajo is the guy I suspected of being mafia, but he didn't seem to care about the pressure, so I'm doubting that. I see Cream's posted once today, and I don't think I've seen a reply to his question. I don't think the other lover should claim.

[Matt_S]

We shouldn't lynch a suspected serial killer unless everyone's absolutely clueless about who's mafia. It doesn't matter if there's one mafia left, but if there's two then lynching the serial killer would put us at lynch or lose. Considering how iamausername's death is a big issue, you can't really wagon Skruffs unless you either think he's the serial killer or the mafia drains their victim's blood.

[Matt_S]

Saying you're cleared of being mafia is going a little far, but I see where your logic comes from. He still seems to support a Skruffs lynch, based off iamausername's death, and he accuses Xtoxm of being a serial killer with his most recent vote. As I've mentioned already, lynching the serial killer=bad.

[Matt_S]

Only scum want the lover claiming so as not to kill it.

That request is horribly antitown.

This is the truth. The lover wants, above all else, to take the bullet(or knife) tonight. Claiming ruins the chance to do that.

[Matt_S]

Alabaska: Could you explain why exactly you want to lynch Skruffs?

And why does everyone have a hard time keeping track of replacements?

Since everyone's naming their suspects, I'd support any lynch except Xtoxm or Skruffs unless someone explains how they're mafia.

[Matt_S]

Better question Matt. Why do you think Xtoxm and Skruffs are town?

I don't. I think either Xtoxm or Skruffs is the serial killer. I'm leaning towards the former, but the quick way the Skruffs wagon formed doesn't seem right.

[Matt_S]

You think I am the SK bcause the wagon against me formed so quickly; doesn't that mean it's more likely I am town and that the SK and the mafia are both voting me? Explain your logic.

That's one possibility. The way I interpreted it was that the mafia was trying to get you lynched because they thought you were the serial killer. My idea is less likely than yours, but I think it's a reasonable possibility.

This new case on popular seems interesting. I don't have the time to read it in depth right now, but in a few hours I'll check it out.

[Matt_S]

I agree with most of what Skruffs has to say about populartajo. I had forgotten the way popular put forward how he thought alvinz played like a cop. I disagree slightly with alvinz's prior scum newbie game being intentionally misdirecting though. I'm still not comfortable with the assumptions populartajo made about how alvinz would play though. I'm still perturbed about Alabaska J's behavior, though. He's pushing the Skruffs case without logic as to why he's mafia. He abandoned the Xtoxm wagon when he remembered that Xtoxm replaced Gaspode, yet he's still pushing the Skruffs wagon because iamausername died.

[Matt_S]

So Alabaska, why is Skruffs scum?

[Matt_S]

See iamausername's case yesterday.

I don't recall you saying much about the case yesterday.

See iamausername dead today.

So you think that "drained of blood" is the mafia kill? Or are you hunting the serial killer, despite unvoting Xtoxm because you don't think he's mafia?

[Matt_S]

So you admit that you think Skruffs is the serial killer, yet you are still voting for him?

[Matt_S]

So you admit that you think Skruffs is the serial killer, yet you are still voting for him?

…yes.

Please explain this.

K, let's go over the math here. We have 7 players alive. We lynch the serial killer, we are down to 6. Lover dieing and the mafia kill bring things down to 4. From there, if we have 2 mafia left, mafia wins. I could swear that I've been talking from the beginning of the day about how we want cross kills, but you seem to have missed that.

[Matt_S]

Even without the lover, going for the serial killer when you have a mafia suspect is badong. And judging from prior experience, I would bet money that we have two mafia left.

[Matt_S]

badong

i do not speak this dialect

You aren't cool unless you've seen Kung Pow: Enter the Fist. For the uninformed, badong means bad and wrong.

[Matt_S]

[quote=""Skruffs"]I was defending MM, and Matt_S speculated that me and MM were masons together. In post 360, I asked him what he thought was protown abou outing potential masons. He was also trying to get MM to have more votes on him, and was saying that unless he could be PROVEN innocent that he should be lynched. This makes MAtt_S look worse. [/quote]I didn't speculate that you were masons. I realized that the possibility of masons didn't make your interactions with Mellowed Man a scum tell. And I'm getting tired of saying this: I didn't want proof. I wanted just any reason to believe that Mellowed Man wasn't scum. You've accused me of this many times and you have yet to listen.

Matt, I do not agree with your conclusions...Find it hard to see a AJ-Skruffs pair tbh...

I don't remember accusing Alabaska and Skruffs of being partners...

That's a pretty big case on populartajo there. Unless I see some counterarguments, I know where my vote is going.

[Matt_S]

Hmm... Cream, do you have any complete games as scum?

[Matt_S]

Hmm... Cream, do you have any complete games as scum?

Matt, stop. Cream is not Alvinz scumpartner. He can be the SK but we dont want to do this today.

I'd like to at least see if he has a scum meta before I let you decide things for me.

[Matt_S]

If Cream doesn't have a meta similar to mine, I'd have to choose between Porochaz and Alabaska J. Porochaz seems to be the less helpful of the two, but I'd have to look back and compare their predecessors for a full view.

[Matt_S]

Wait a sec, are you accusing Skruffs of being the serial killer and voting him? I thought we established that it's a bad thing to do. Or do you think there's only one mafia left?

I also remember seeing Skruffs suggest a massclaim which I keep forgetting to comment on. I don't care either way.

[Matt_S]

Matt, I would like to inform you that this isn't my first game as scum (don't take that to be a slip saying that I am scum, just not for the first time, I just can't express myself any better). In 2 finished games I have been in scum, in neither have I had any arguments with my scumpartner, certainly not in the same way as my argument with Alvinz. I'll give you links if you wan them.

I'll believe that without the links.

Then that leaves me with porochaz and Alabaska J, possibly Skruffs if people can explain how he's not the serial killer. And for some reason, I had thought that populartajo thought Skruffs was the SK, but I don't know how I thought that, so ignore my previous post. Sorry for any confusion I caused to anyone other than myself.

[Matt_S]

If I unvote will you claim?

Considering that Skruffs thinks you're scum, I doubt it. Will the full claim change your mind any more than the soft claim did?

[Matt_S]

I'm not sure about Skruffs anymore. He seems to be fighting quite hard, though.

Defensiveness is not a scumtell.

[Matt_S]

I didn't say it was. I said it was a towntell.

>.> It's not a town tell either.

[Matt_S]

Why not?

Uhh... Because nobody wants to get lynched?

[Matt_S]

You're pushing pretty hard for his lynched.

Come again? I don't recall ever doing that today.

[Matt_S]

Matt_S askign other people to make a case for him in a potetntial LYLO situation is also scummy as hell.

I don't know where you got that. The only case I've payed any attention to was your case on populartajo. I questioned Cream for my own reasons, and I suspect porochaz for contributing nothing to this game and Alabaska for his pursuit of the serial killer. If you're referring to my lack of a vote today, that may just be related to the fact that we are in a potential lynch or lose situation. Or perhaps you're referring to my largely sarcastic request for people to explain why you aren't the serial killer, in which case, yeah, I want other people to explain why they aren't wrong.

[Matt_S]

Matt, I would like to inform you that this isn't my first game as scum (don't take that to be a slip saying that I am scum, just not for the first time, I just can't express myself any better). In 2 finished games I have been in scum, in neither have I had any arguments with my scumpartner, certainly not in the same way as my argument with Alvinz. I'll give you links if you wan them.

I'll believe that without the links.

Then that leaves me with porochaz and Alabaska J, possibly Skruffs if people can explain how he's not the serial killer. And for some reason, I had thought that populartajo thought Skruffs was the SK, but I don't know how I thought that, so ignore my previous post. Sorry for any confusion I caused to anyone other than myself.

The whole 'I'll believe Skruffs is scum if someone else will convince me" is what I was referring to, in the second paragraph.

I already believed you were probably scum, just the wrong type to lynch. I welcomed any attempt to prove me wrong.

[Matt_S]

Probably scum but the wrong type to lynch? Excuse me if that sounds a bit contradictory. Essentially mafia for town is lynch scum = win game. I disagree with a skruffs lynch especially now he claimed, but your last statement is totally wrong. Alabaska J is still the lynch for today.

SK is scum, too.

[Matt_S]

That sounds an awful lot like an appeal to authority. It's too bad you're a serial killer candidate.

[Matt_S]

1. You're listening to someone else because they're confirmed, as if a confirmed townie has more insight than yourself.
2. Gaspode used a ton of FOSes rather than votes and seemed noncommittal about everything, which is how I picture a serial killer acting.

[Matt_S]

Skruffs should be claiming his targets ASAP IMO.

Indeed. Any extra tidbit is helpful.

[Matt_S]

for some reason no one wants to lynch Xtoxm.

He's very serial killerish to me. I don't know if everyone else thinks so, but that's why I don't want to lynch him.

[Matt_S]

Everyone's making serial killer accusations now. How about more mafia accusations? I'll accuse Alabaska J and Porochaz again.

[Matt_S]

Matt, what happened with Cream and your theory?

Cream claims to have a meta that contradicts it.

[Matt_S]

unvote vote Skruffs

Your actions confuse me.

I don't have any idea who NAR is, but what Skruffs says seems to make sense. If Skruffs knew Mellowed Man was someone who fakeclaimed a lot, it would seem silly for him to kill Mellowed Man as mafia.

[Matt_S]

Matt, just curious, why Poro?

He has done little since replacing in, and his push for the Alabaska wagon early today is odd. Alabaska was hardly the only person to push the Elias wagon.

[Matt_S]

Unvote Vote: Alabaska

Why the change of heart?

Anyway, that's L-1, so i guess I should claim.

I'm the Serial Killer.

GASP.

O RLY?

[Matt_S]

I once had a scumbuddy fakeclaim serial killer. I can't say Alabaska's claim is believable, but it still may be better not to mess with this. Or we can ask for counterclaims, but that's just dumb.

[Matt_S]

What the hell are you on about?

I just looked through Alvinz posts, he barely talks about EG, only some very light attacking at the start.

I can very easily see Alvinz as scum with EG.

vote Poro

Alvinz: newbie scum.
Possibilities of busing his partner at the beginning of D1 : 1%.

Bussing my partners is what I did as newbie scum.

[Matt_S]

In conclusion its possible to bus your partner. I mean, its part of mafia. But the way Alvinz suspected Evilgorrilaz ISNT bussing. Its just too much. It sincerely looks to me as newbie scum going againts the easy target. In fact when EG stopped being it, the attacks ceased.

As newbie scum, I attacked one of my buddies to try and get him to stop acting scummy. When I realized nobody cared, I stopped, until I later bussed my other buddy. Newbie scum can do surprising things.

[Matt_S]

This game got really fast all of a sudden.

[Matt_S]

Lol...It got the spark it needed...

Matt.

What are you thinking here? You're lack of contribution is worrying me, given that i'm believing AJ that would make you town, you are not acting as I would expect a townie to.

What? I've been trying to explain why newbie scum can bus to populartajo. What exactly is wrong with that?

[Matt_S]

The only way you claiming SK could advantage you is if you are actually scum

Or if he's the serial killer and doesn't want to get lynched.

[Matt_S]

Claimed serial killers can still win. I'm busy eating right now so I can't keep up with the pace of the conversation, but I think popular asked about that.

[Matt_S]

Xtoxm, can you explain how can the SK win?

I think it's best to keep that information private.

[Matt_S]

You seem to be missing the part where he says the role pm was written incorrectly.

[Matt_S]

*bangs head*...how can I be so stupid! I've got this all wrong! Xtoxm is scum, AJ IS the Sk. Or so I'm suspecting now. Town, if what I've just said is true, I am soooo sorry.

Wait, premature reaction, xtoxm's vote wasn't the hammer. Phew...I resume to my old stance.

Yes, it's only L-1 again.

[Matt_S]

If I was scum with anyone but AJ, i'd have hammered him for the win. Apart from that, day 1 practically confirms i'm not mafia.

Like Skruffs, said, he can roleblock people. It wouldn't be a guaranteed win, so this doesn't confirm either of us.

[Matt_S]

I go from being second on the claim list to being last.

this unwillingness to hammer Matt keeps going on about is why he didn't hammer the SK.

I don't get what you mean here. What "unwillingness to hammer" have I been talking about?

[Matt_S]

K, vanilla townie.

Now about that question I asked...

[Matt_S]

How you keep saying you and me aren't clear for not hammering cause of JK.

What about it? Is me mentioning it scummier than you ignoring it?

[Matt_S]

Aswell as the Gaspode thing, I like to think i've been one of the most pro-town here.

This made me lol.

I don't know whey people think alvinz would only have one partner, unless you're referring to the part where he accused iamausername of bussing. One partner would make the game pretty swingy.

[Matt_S]

Aswell as the Gaspode thing, I like to think i've been one of the most pro-town here.

This made me lol.

Why is that?

I believe i've been either most or 2nd most active here.

So being active makes you protown? What, is that a corollary to lynch all lurkers?

[Matt_S]

I'm not seeing any good options other than porochaz or xtoxm. I think it's a tossup either way, since I don't see any big reason to prefer one over the other.

[Matt_S]

Alabaska, I hope you can pull some magic to keep the town from winning this.

[Matt_S]

I think the best option would have been to say that I was a mafia roleblocker and that I wasn't killing because I couldn't kill myself.. that would be my guess

That's what I was hoping he would do when I saw that you changed your mind during the night.

I thought I had everything planned out, but it was a spontaneous plan so I couldn't communicate it. It seemed like Porochaz caught my clue since he didn't kill. My main mistake was probably not pushing hard for a lynch the day I died. The biggest obstacle though was that Alabaska didn't kill Skruffs. I was kind of hoping that Porochaz would team up with him if things looked bad, but Skruffs had to change his mind in the middle of the night and screw things up for us. Good game town and serial killer.

And this continues my scum losing streak.

[Matt_S]

I should have gone with the fifty-fifty shot and just hammered Alabaska, but I thought I could do better than that.

I'd say the most confusing part of the game was coheed claiming to be roleblocked. I came to the conclusion that he was the serial killer. I was very wrong and very confused.