Open 646 - Semi Nightless - Game Over (D6)

[Thor665]

Middle of the road read means null right?

Tenshii lynching a null read sounds better than Giga lynching someone he had formerly thought was town and telling me to hammer really fast.

Yeah, but why did she hop on - especially since the wagon at that point was being pushed by her theory scum read mhsmith, and there was a counter wagon on her stronger scumread of Luna?

[Thor665]

I give up reasoning with you.

Stop misusing that word.

Also, I was quite reasonably allowing you and your bad play to slide for DAYS.
Then you lynched one of my better town reads, who flipped town.
Now I need to sort you again, because your iso and play are a mess.

And all i can get out of you is constant whining and refusal to back up things you're saying the instant I dare to question them,
#sorrynotsorry

[Thor665]

You have not backed your opinions.

Reference post 2485 wherein I defeated one of your town arguments for Tenshii through my amazing ability of 'stating what happened'.

[Thor665]

I mean, you're backing them with empty made up stuff - but I don't have to agree with the lie you tell yourself that stuff like that equates to backup evidence for a belief.

[Thor665]

You didn't defeat my point, I just want him to elaborate on that vote.

Oh, okay, so you just randomly want to check on something about your most bestest town read in the game off something I mentioned and it's *not* me pointing out holes in your reads.

Sorry, I totally misunderstood what was happening.
Carry on.

[Thor665]

Pointing out a "hole" is not defeating the read entirely.

Okay, so your swiss cheese case remains solid despite the holes.

KTS, Rosske, and Transcend - I'm leaning towards a scum in that set.

urp looks like thor had rosske!scum thoughts as well.

this guy is an Smurf and i hope i don't have the displeasure of playing with him again.

Yup, on Day 1 I had Rosske as scum.
So if I played like you did, I would have never changed that read and voted to lynch him yesterday.
That said, as I got more and new info, my reads changed and progressed. That's how I use my brain. You can, of course, use your own methods.

[Thor665]

I'm curious why you were making that point at the same time as pushing KTS to L-2. Was this just a general request for clarification that happened to make it onto your vote post, or were you thinking Tenshii was as strong a suspect as KTS?

If I thought he was an equally strong suspect there's a decent chance I would have voted him.
The fact that I'm asking for general clarification appears, on a wild guess, to be a request for general clarification (that was never taken up - thus fueling my stronger value call there).

Also, you'd expressed at one point that you thought the last wolf was on KTS. Do you think this is meaningfully town-indicative of Transcend, since he's the only living player who was never on KTS? Or do you think that making a late hop off the KTS wagon is town-indicative for Tenshii, since he'd been on KTS for a while (among others) before hopping off onto PC late in the day?

Why would you guess the former, which makes sense with my stated stance, and then theorize the latter, which doesn't, and ask me to clarify it for you?
This is a busywork question - why are you making it up to ask me? Frankly, the first one was fairly busy work also.

PS Can everyone link their most recent one or two town and most recent one or two wolf games? If you don't have any before this (IIRC giga suggested they never randed wolf before, i don't know if tenshii has any off-site experience), just let me know.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... &sr=topics

Given that you were pushing Tenshii again here, and were clearly suspicious of him, why did you make a L-1 vote on PC? Why not start a new wagon on Tenshii, or push harder for answers, or hesitate to cast a critical vote on PC? Or was PC such a strong read of yours that you were more just engaging with just the possibility that it wasn't PC?

PC was not a strong read.
PC was a valid 'let's remove the lurksack from the game' read made at the appropriate time to minimize damage to town from his embarrassing lack of play commitment to the other players.

[Thor665]

@thor: wrt PC, it's just weird that you'd made that l-1 vote on him while pushing tenshii (again), and then follow it up with

Sure - for starters, explain to me why town would choose not to vote their top scumread nowhere close to mylo or lylo.

I'll wait.

And the reason scum would do it is due to lack of actual belief in their claims, and also for strategic purposes if they think the move will get them called out.

So that was nowhere close to MYLO/LYLO, PC wasn't your top scum read, and your comment to tenshii suggested that this behavior was in your mind a scum tell. So I guess I want to know why you'd hop along on pc lynch instead of pushing for a force replace, especially given that you'd indicated a preference for a replace at
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p8225663. What changed between when you thought that he should be replaced and when you voted him?

Please explain who my larger scumread was, and then I'll pretend you have a point.

And I gave up on replace because the mod didn't do it - this isn't rocket science.

How is it a busywork question? Your recently stated top two are transcend and tenshii, and you seem to be leaning transcend as the last wolf. This runs counter to your previously stated read that the last wolf was on kts,

Am I actively sorting him?
Yes?
Okay then.

So I guess I want to know where you see the insincerity with transcend; why does he not believe the case he's trying to sell? And why is the original read, of transcend clear because he wasn't on kts (and he also wasn't on PC for that matter) invalid?

I can't gauge sincerity on Transcend because he can't describe his own thoughts - so...?

[Thor665]

You're having conversations that have no connection to the conversations you're replying to or are intentionally kind of sidestepping them.

[Thor665]

And Reply 2 is saying there's more reasons for Thor to be scumread here than Giga. And also Karnos's interactions with Giga have tidbits in there where it comes off like Karnos is talking to town!Giga. And Giga has tidbits where she talks like she genuinely doesn't know for sure Karnos is scum.

Half of your answer involves kcdaspot - who is mhsmith, who is neither Thor nor Giga.
So what does any of that have to do with anything as far as suggesting Giga didn't bus or that I did?

[Thor665]

while we're at it, Thor, I see that dwlee did a fake scum claim gambit around http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p8300559 that you seemingly passed. Given the context of that incident, what do you think of the reactions from trans, giga and myself to KTS's scum claim gambit at http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8206556 ?

I think I have never particularly pushed any reads over that moment, because I think a player has to be a bit sloppy and dumb to really 'slip' at those moments.

Vote: Tenshii

I'm at this.

[Thor665]

[Thor665]

Kind of a useless answer, but I think the best thing to do is agree with everyone on who crossvotes before voting.

Don't really see the point in this.
Like, if A, B, and C are in lylo, and A townreads B and scumreads C he doesn't care what the discussion on cross voting is - he's going to vote C unless he is bad at the game.

[Thor665]

In a Thor/Smith/Transcend setup there is no universal townread, so I don't see how you intend to set up one.

[Thor665]

wouldn't it be you though? I know in my example transcend voted for you but I don't think that's how it'd actually go.

If I'm a universal town read then no one will vote me anyway, and functionally I have the hammer regardless of if I vote first or second.
Same difference.

[Thor665]

This is, sadly, a prod dodge - I have nothing of insight to add to the conversation, so pretty much just saying 'yup., read this'
Except for Transcend's spoilers, didn't even click to open them.
Sounds like they were about what I expected though.

[Thor665]

Sounds like you should have spared the quotes and the fat yourself, and just listed your hard bullet points, because of the two people claiming they read your post, both are claiming the same reaction to it, and at least one is town.

[Thor665]

You should have trimmed all the quotes, or put the quotes behind spoiler walls and only stated the bullets in your prime posting.
That's how you get people to read and notice stuff.
What you're doing is good scumplay, because it's obfuscating your thoughts, while appearing like a lot of work.
But it's not good play to actually lynch someone.

[Thor665]

@Tenshi - a good example of your empty ISO and why people call it empty is best summed up in that kerfluffle a few days ago when you claimed you had suspicions on Giga and mhsmith and my reactions to that were 'you did what in the where now?'

You had zero ability to quote any evidence supporting that belief.
In trying to describe the belief you were left going 't'was the feels!'

If you are town, you should communicate your thoughts, and also try to do so in some manner that showcases why you have the thoughts.
That it came as an utter surprise to people that you suspected Giga shows that either you were making up that read when it was needed, and you're scum- or you're town who decided not to communicate an apparently major line of thought for no reason whatsoever.

Which is why your ISO is empty.
If you think that's a buzzword - I'll change my issue to you to; your iso fails to contain any real evidence of forming coherent scumreads, and also in pressing in a manner consistent with those reads, and instead shows a desire to either defend flipped scum, or to want to lynch people off cases not connected to alignment tells.

I also call that 'empty'.

[Thor665]

Wasn't planning to - nothing interesting is happening.

[Thor665]

Tenshii is either aggrieved town, or busted scum - either way seems unlikely to post much.

[Thor665]

Tenshii hasn't even been on site since the hammer.

[Thor665]

Thor died because as I said in my PM to tojam, it would be suicide to kill anyone else.

A good call methinks.
I dunno, maybe I would have got silly paranoid - I do that sometimes.

Oh and btw for my mhsmith and tenshii case, it took me 7 minutes to make as opposed to 3 hours. all i did was ctrl+f their names throughout my iso, dump it in a giant post and hope for the best. lol.

yeah that was sketchy. it felt a bit cheap to blast you on that though, but I remember being like "huh?????" with the 3 hour thing.

Still haven't read it - still think that was the right play.

[Thor665]

OH and to anyone I may have offended in this game

IT WAS NOTHING PERSONAL ONLY STRATEGIC

[Thor665]

Swear on it.

I meant nothing I said this game.

Then you should have left out the personal insults.

[Thor665]

@Thor, If you me and Transcend made it to 3 way with you having hammer, who are you more likely to hammer?

An empty poster and a empty caser?
The mind shudders.

There's a reason I was making sure you didn't get to lylo - because your slot was empty. I would loathe having to make that value call.
I've been in similar situations before, and when it comes to an empty slot it all comes down to your read on the other slot versus the emptiness.
It would have been a coin flip.

[Thor665]

Dunno - I was never given the link.

[Thor665]

plus you got the first scum lynched, it probably could have been avoided if you didn't quickhammer

I'm not sure about that - we were always going to peel off the les towny looking players, and I think KTS would have floated in that area regardless of the hammer. His lynch might have happened at a different time, but it probably was always going to happen.