Open 646 - Semi Nightless - Game Over (D6)

[Io]

/confirm
And I sent you a quick explanation of the countdown so hope my explication is easy enough to understand.

[Io]

VOTE: Luna Fox
Clearly you're trying to defend your scum buddy by ignoring the votes placed upon him.

[Io]

VOTE: Luna Fox
Clearly you're trying to defend your scum buddy by ignoring the votes placed upon him.

That logic would make Transcend scum - so why aren't you voting the larger wagon?

Because I'm to lazy to mathz in order to find out how much majority is.

[Io]

1. Do you get your reads typically from gut or evidence?

Gut read, but evidence will always be regarded higher in my opinion.

2. How would you describe your level of experience?

Well I've only played 1 newbie game on this sight, but otherwise I've played roughly 15ish mafia style games.

3. When trying to get a better read on a specific player, do prefer you reread the entire thread or just their ISO?

ISO.

4. What's your Myers-briggs personality type? Here's a link to a test for it if you don't know yours, but you can skip this one if you don't feel like wasting time.

INTP

5. What's your opinion on Lynch All Liars? Lynch All Lurkers? Policy lynches in general?

Lurkers are the scum of the earth.

Yes to lynching lurkers, liars I'm less concerned about if they have a good reason but I don't see a reason to really lie as town this game as there is no power roles to lie about, I have no problems with policy lynching.

6. Do you think it's a good idea to utilize all of the time allotted by a deadline?

[sarcasm]No I think wasting time is far more important.[/sarcasm]

7. Are you scum?

What do you think?

[Io]

You are a townread.
You're voting Karnos.
Ergo, if I'm right about you, statistically by voting who you vote I'm more likely to target scum.

I don't think that actually works that way.
He can be completely wrong about it still. If he's town then he's no more likely to know who scum are than you so why would sheeping him have a better chance of hitting scum?

[Io]

there is something else that bothered me about Karnos's responses that I will discuss after I feel I have enough responses to go off of.

Obviously I have to be curious about that, but more importantly: how do you feel about people who flat out refuse to answer your questions?

People implies plural, but only one person has not answered them, Thor665.
The way you worded this looks like just a roundabout way of saying Thor should be criticized more than you because he didn't answer without actually calling him directly out.

[Io]

It's still not wrong as you said "people who flat out refuse to answer" and everyone else has either answered or hasn't been online. He's the only one who refused to answer.
If you need further reasoning to why I think this is your intention your resent post helps that thought a lot.

The above logic depends on Thor being town as well. Scum Thor could be sheeping a supposed town, in which case that would make it much less likely I am scum.

Unless you think Thor & I are the sort of players who would bus each other day 1.

The last line is implying that you are both trying to lynch each other day 1. Even assuming you are not partners you are still saying you've been adamant about lynching Thor. And the only post in which you've really expressed this is post 70 which is subtly calling him out without saying it. And now that you are claiming that's not you intention and with this post I seriously doubt that you didn't mean that.
VOTE: karnos

[Io]

If you really think I was trying to argue that Thor & I actually are both scum, please just quick lynch me now, I don't want to be a part of this town.

But that's not what I was saying. I was saying you were claiming to want him lynched and claiming to have never pushed for his lynched at the same time.

[Io]

Unless you think Thor & I are the sort of players who would bus each other day 1.

Io, is this and post #70 what lead you to believe that Karnos is adamant about Thor's lynch? If not, could you tell me what I missed?

Karnos, how are you reading Thor at the moment?

Yes.
He's still a scum read, and that vote on me is just stupidly grasping for something to take pressure off of him by his terrible reasoning as to why I am wrong about how I think.

[Io]

Karnos does look a little flaily to me, but he does appear to have a valid point that you're stretching in your value calls on his stated beliefs.

I don't understand what this is supposed to mean.
Mostly because I don't know what a value call is or can really find it on google.

But I don't really see how his point is valid as he just said I was lying which I don't even see what I was lying about since he didn't really point it out clearly. The closest thing I can see where he gets the "I'm a liar" part from is where I was saying what I thought his intentions with his posts were which wouldn't even be a lie as it's just interpretation as I don't see him having very high town motivations with them. Even if I was stretching that a little bit his reaction to the accusation by voting me is plenty enough to make a full case on its own because really just accusing your accuser for stretching an interpretation a little isn't even a defense it's just dodging the accusation entirely to get me to stop attacking him. A defense from him wouldn't have even been that hard to make as all he would have needed to do was to explain how I was interrupting his intentions wrong.

He very well could have just been bad and messed up, and I was aware of that when accusing him. But frankly it doesn't matter because I don't think he was just being bad now. He really is just trying hard to take attention off of him instead of responding to my accusations properly.

For everyone, this is more of a theory question about semi-nightless in general: Since there are more mislynches available to us than normal (we get 4 before LYLO rather than 3), does this give townies more, less, or the same amount of an incentive to be defensive in your opinion?

I don't think people should be defensive in general because being defensive just makes you an easier attack target for scum. This is mainly because if you are playing defensive you tend to contribute less to discussion and play more towards working up a defense and that is a pretty big threat to the town as it's a lot easier for a scum to accuse someone not contributing a whole lot than it is to accuse someone who is vocal or aggressive with their opinions.
Basically defensive behavior is just something that I think should be avoided. Then again I like to play more aggressive, so that opinion is a bit biased.

[Io]

The wording was just confusing, but I got a little bit of what you were saying.

But I'm still not making stuff up about him.
Sure, of course he didn't say that, but the wording he used made it clear that he was trying to attack you without saying your name. The only person in which his post 70 could have possibly applied to was you, from which he claims was not meant to target you. There is simply no way that could have been meant to not be attacking you since the only person who fell under the umbrella of that question was you.
His vote on me saying I "lied" about his intention with that post is absurd because I can't see that possibly be interrupted a different way. If he meant something else from that he could have explained it, but he chose not to and just deny it being an attack on you.

[Io]

oh my god so many long posts that are literally ALL FILLER.

why can't any of you be concise?

Because conciseness is for loosers.
Or just people who like to find things easier I guess.

[Io]

oh my god so many long posts that are literally ALL FILLER.

why can't any of you be concise?

After reading the last 4 pages I second this notion.

Now I'm going to attempt to shift through posts and get some decent reads now that the day is a good ways in.

[Io]

OK well I've read and caught up as well as went back through ISO's and reading parts of the thread over again.
I'll pick out some of the better things I found.

First off I'm liking Luna and Transcend as both of them look to have a lot of actual contribution and not just posts that include both opinions and reads which I like. Right now I see Luna as having pure town motivation behind her posts, and Transcend I'm not to sure about with intent but I still have him as pretty highly regarded for it just Luna's a bit better than you.

Next is the Kc vs Kill. To put it short Kc wins. While I agree with Kill, Kc is a bit annoying to read his posts, KC is still right on a lot of their points they made on you. You are pretty dodgy wiht his accusation and just attacking his play style, which while bad, is a pretty scummy thing to do on itself. Plus Kill practically made up the argument that you were attacking Kc's reads and not them when the only real close thing you did to attacking his reads was saying his reads sucked. With that being said while I put Kc as very likely town, I'm a bit unsure on Kill though leaning a slight scum mostly because of the Kc interaction.

So Kranos and Thor. To be honest the more Kranos talks the more I think he might be just a really bad townie than scum, but I'm still sticking with my gut that he is scum. Which with that by default puts Thor as a pretty likely town in my eyes. And frankly I can't see this being TvT.

I have more opinions but now I'm out of time because i somehow spent an hour and a half doing all that.

[Io]

I've realized I have a slight perdicament. I can't decide if PC, Kill, or Kranos is the VI.
I'm thinking Kill right now, but I'm currently OK with all 3 of them being lynched.
Everyone else is either Town, not scummy, or just not posting looking at you Rass.

[Io]

It might be PC actually now that I think about it more.
I know it's not Kranos though, I'm almost 100% confident he is just plain scum. So I'll keep my vote on him.

[Io]

I've realized I have a slight perdicament. I can't decide if PC, Kill, or Kranos is the VI.
I'm thinking Kill right now, but I'm currently OK with all 3 of them being lynched.
Everyone else is either Town, not scummy, or just not posting looking at you Rass.

This coming directly after my vote.

I don't really care about your vote enough to say you're town because of that.
Kranos is just overtly scummy so that means with er you or PC are just a bad townie. And as I said earlier I'm not as confident that you are scum with your interaction with Kc.

[Io]

it looked to me Karnos was pushing Thor harder then Io, but voting Io, and that didn't make sense to me. So I asked.

I think Io is more likely scum than Thor, both are doing some scummy stuff though. I totally get why it would look like I am pushing Thor harder: Io is just coasting, not really posting anything meaningful, so I don't have any content to respond to from her. Coasting doesn't make her more town in my eyes, though.

I'm coasting your wagon Kranos?
10 of my 16 posts were explaining your scummyness in one way or another. That's hardly coasting if the majority of my content has been to prove you are scum. That takes some pretty good confidence to do that, and it's also really not possible to say I've backed off. I did say in 372 I would like to stop arguing with you and focus on my other scum reads as I already feel like I've made a good case on you.
This comment is just so forced because it's not even near accurate to what I have been doing.

Also just a side note since you brought up my inactivity. I wasn't on yesterday much because of IRL reasons with me finding out my bathroom sink was leaking and now I got a large mold problem. I was spending my day tearing up the sink.

I've realized I have a slight perdicament. I can't decide if PC, Kill, or Kranos is the VI.
I'm thinking Kill right now, but I'm currently OK with all 3 of them being lynched.
Everyone else is either Town, not scummy, or just not posting looking at you Rass.

This coming directly after my vote.

I don't really care about your vote enough to say you're town because of that.
Kranos is just overtly scummy so that means with er you or PC are just a bad townie. And as I said earlier I'm not as confident that you are scum with your interaction with Kc.

I'm not bad.

Scumread me if you want, but don't call me bad. Please.

V/LA till the 20th

OK you're Kranos's partner then and not PC.
Happy now?

[Io]

I somehow didn't notice that before.

[Io]

Oh, hm... Karnos is not as widely townread as I thought. I forgot that Kcda scumreads Karnos (get on our wagon man....), and I get why Tenshii isn't willing to vote him. So the town is almost split 50/50 on Karnos, interesting. I can write a list of how everyone reads him if anyone cares.

I'm getting the impression that a lot of reads are that way.

[Io]

Or I copied and pasted your name at the start of the game which is likely.

[Io]

Accepted without protest.

Except i've been protesting the Karnos wagon all the time, until his last post.
And my vote is still on PC and i've given my reasons.

What exactly is your problem with my last post?

Do you really think it's likely Io is actually reading my posts, given that I have repeatedly commented on her misspellings of my name? I honestly thought she was just being a troll, but now she is denying that she even realized she had it wrong... that I find hard to believe, unless she isn't reading my posts at all.

Not reading is something only a scum would do. A town motivated player would be carefully reading all of his lynch targets posts for more evidence to push the lynch or for useful information post-flip.

Yeah no I've never seen any of your posts saying that specific thing. Plus like a mispelling is such a stupid thing to get upset about, and even worse it's not even a good thing for scum to even lie about doing. That's such a petty thing to fake and really this line of argument is just stupid.

@Kill Being passive isn't even a scummy thing to do. There's like no reason for me not to be passive with Karnos because he's not even presenting a real argument. His accusation that I'm faking mispelling his name is such a joke I can't even take him seriously right now. Not to mention my early game wasn't even passive it was pretty aggressive with Karnos up until he just became a joke.

[Io]

Io L-3 - karnos, Killthestory, Rosske
Thor665 L-5 - Rosske

Hmm...Something's wrong with this.

List all the town fighting town?

That comes down to perspective because most of us don't have similar reads.

[Io]

I don't have a problem with Luna really.
And I do like smith.

Sorry for the short post I'm about to go to another state for the next 2 days so I'll be V/LA for a short time, no more than 48 hours though.

[Io]

Well I'm back.
Honestly Kill hammering really isn't a summy thing to do on its own.

[Io]

...Look like the rest of his posts? Cuz they kinda do.

[Io]

See that's why if 1 or 2 posts look off push them a bit, and if they fall apart they're scum.

[Io]

reads are not irrelevant. But they are not 100% AI. Don't just go off of them Luna and Trans just know that they are still a tool that can be used.

[Io]

Yeah I did. I still don't know though. I'm going to step back and just reevaluate everything. Mainly because Karnos was my main scum read so now that it's concrete he's scum associative tells are nice. Though most of his posts are bout me and Thor.

[Io]

Rooske is such an obvious townie why are you guys even considering him?

[Io]

As far as I'm concerned Thor, Giga, Smith, and Luna are all exrtremely unlikely to be scum because of Karnos's basic interactions with them.
Honestly I think KTS is Town adn PC is the most likely person to be Karnos's partner because of this interaction they had.

VOTE: karnos for being the first one to post after my introduction!

How rude. I haven't done a VC recently, I hope that wasn't hammer.

Hello PC.

Just looking at it, it's so casual compared to how Karnos interacted with out people in the begining.
Not to mention it's a pretty light hearted accusation from PC and dropped soon after. And Karnos's responce wasn't even serious either.

Of course PC also has Karnos as top Town as well as Luna and Giga as top scum.
VOTE: PC
I'm aware no one is voting for him, but I don't care when he's the most likely person to be scum in my eyes.

[Io]

I like how everyone's like "man Io or Thor should get on and hammer KTS soon." And then no. Not doing that.
There's not really a threat of PC hammering KTS to be honest since KTS is PC's only hope of living 'cus as soon as KTS dies he dies.

[Io]

He's town because PC is scum and there's only 1 scum. Linda strait forward.

[Io]

He's town because PC is scum and there's only 1 scum. Linda strait forward.

My point is, if you're wrong on PC do you still think kts town? And if so why?

If I'm wrong then I still put KTS lower than Luna and Ross as possible scum.
Ross because of the just 0 interaction at all with Karnos. Then Luna because I can see Karnos's interactions as possible acting on his part. KTS just seams more genuine.

[Io]

I could do them in reverse order tbh, but i think KTS is more likely to be scum and i kinda want a perfect town win so...

But I think PC is scum and I want a perfect town win so...

@smith basically his attitude and really he had opportunities to do stuff to help the town or mafia and hasn't chosen to do either which while doesn't help town at least makes me think he isn't all about aiming to help the Mafia. He could have just of easily said nothing and lurked waiting for another person to hammer Karnos or even defend karnos. After all PC was defending Karnos a lot more than Kill and Kill just didn't seam to care about Karnos's predicament.

IO THE BLANKING LEGEND COMING THROUGH

VOTE: Phantom

Are you half lemming by any chance?

[Io]

I could do them in reverse order tbh, but i think KTS is more likely to be scum and i kinda want a perfect town win so...

And also if you need more proof that Luna isn't a very good lynch target this is pretty good.
She says this when KTS is at L-2 and PC is at L-3. She could have just of easily jumped off the KTS wagon and onto PC, but didn't. Both would have been advancing her goals if she were Mafia. So like at the very least the lynch is going to be between KTS and PC not Luna.

[Io]

Are you half lemming by any chance?

Eh? What are you trying to say by this?

You have blind faith.

[Io]

hey guys im back!

hey phantomcobalt if you see this you should really say something because the more i see you post in other games the less inclined i am to defend you

its site policy to not talk about ongoing games, so please respect that policy

There's also this where you did actually admit you were avoiding the thread.
I mean threatening a point that you are avoiding the thread with saying they should be banned for the accusation is admitting you did purposefully avoid the thread. And you even badly cover it up with a stupid "I'm back" introduction after being accused of lurking.
And if you say "no you are talking about ongoing games" still then there is still the point where you only ever talked after Giga called you out for lurking which itself is pretty clear evidence you wee lurking. Like literally ignore Giga's point entirely except for the calling you out for lurking you were still clearly lurking.

[Io]

townslip, excuse me! i can quote it if needed.

I would like that for reference because I honestly miss town slips a lot, but honestly I don't even think Ross is scum right now.

[Io]

He means not be night killed so she can pull a massive comeback victory for Town when only 3 people remain.

[Io]

How about we not lynch him.

[Io]

VC Day 1 - 3

karnos L-3 - Io, Thor665, gigabyte
Thor665 L-3 - Killthestory, Transcend, Rosske
Io L-5 - karnos

(expired on 2016-07-29 16:30:00)

Fun question: why was scum!karnos not on the Thor counter wagon here? The lazy answer is Thor is his buddy. The more plausible answer is one of:

1) karnos buddy already on Thor wagon, dont want to push together
2) karnos didn't want to active push the Thor mislynch wagon, wanted to park his vote elsewhere while continuing his back and forth

Because he was hardcore pissed off at me when I accused him.

[Io]

Yeah, I mean his whole reaction to it was so blown up even in that quote you can see he's basically just denoted it to calling me a liar. He was quite suborn for some time that he just wasn't going to vote anyone but me.

[Io]

VOTE: Luna Fox
L-1

You are aware that L-4 is not the same as L-1 right?
Just because you vote someone multiple times it doesn't add votes.

[Io]

He only lolhammers day 1 he said

[Io]

io and tenshii if youg uys could unvote i'd heavily consider a townbloc with you guys

And why would I unvote a likely scum just so you could read me as town?
Aside from the fact that I don't need your recognition, I don't think PC is Town so I want him dead.

[Io]

I'll be V/LA for a week starting tomorrow.
But honestly since you wont vote PC I'll just hammer Kill for the sake of moving this game on as clearly I'm doing nothing with my end.
VOTE: Kill

[Io]

Nevermind Rooske already hammered, whatever.

[Io]

I dunno if I'm just retarded or if there's some godlike reason we should be keeping Phantom, the most obvious fucking townie in the universe, around.

Cursing feels great.

Well you are because there is nothing townie he has done and it's frustrating how this was obvious day 1 and you are advocating for complete stupidity by letting scum live and be the #1 townie.
VOTE: PC

[Io]

OH MY GOD THAT WAS FUCKING SARCASM

VOTE: PhantomCobalt

Io does not have the ability to detect sarcasm as she does not care to waste brainpower deciphering what is a joke and what is not a joke.

[Io]

Well I'm back now.
Honestly those quote don't really show Rosskee as scum at all.
Plus really PC is just saying to lynch Giga who is the most townie person there is. He can't be that bad of a townie to not see that.

[Io]

Replace the slot don't lynch him.

Alternatively: Lynch Rosske watch him flip red and then we don't need a replacement!

Everyone is happy, even the host!

Lynching PC accomplishes the same thing with the bonus that he flips red.

[Io]

Now I just gotta decide who gets HM I'm probably gonna give it to mhsmith here since he took an absolute shit on me, but Giga making the correct decision in the end was also pretty sweet along with his pouncing of karnosd d1.

The correct answer here is Io btw. She did probably the most work to get karnos lynched (really started the hard push on him), and every single person she cleared was actually a townie. If she'd lived, she might have won it sooner by PoE alone. Meanwhile everyone else had multiple wrong wagons they were on for various reasons. I did well D1 and redeemed myself D6, and had a very good D2 tbh, but my D3-D5 kinda sucked.

Maybe, but I would have pushed a smith lynch day 4.
After that it would have been between you and Tenshii for scum because everyone else was pretty good looking.
Though that last day I was thinking it was going to be Smith that was scum.

[Io]

Not that I knew of.

[Io]

Btw why did you think it was me? I'd been substantively engaging every reasonable point against me, and made a number of points trans basically was forced to dodge since he couldn't really answer them. What swung your read over that?

I was doing my own little night kill analysis and I just figured that me and Thor being killed were not anything indicative, but that you would have had more reason to kill iraonavp than Trans did due to them putting you higher than Trans on the scum reads. Plus it was clear that you and Trans were going to be the last 2 with either thor or giga with you.
I almost think it was a mistake to have killed iraonavp over Giga because I'm pretty sure they would have voted you over Trans in the end.