Open 577: Hope Plus One! (GAME OVER - SCUM WIN)

[GGG]

Hi guys, did a quick skim through to get a feel for the game. Here are my current thoughts.

Nrg 189 bad meta read. I do not believe the difference in his posting between town
and scum is suspicious vs scummiest. 216 clarifies meta read to make it sound more reasonable after others started attacking.

C+A leaning town, mostly gut.

Rudolph 213 discussing theory, being the helpful townie, lean scum. His Constantine interaction is scummy.

Annen - votes for lurker. Not a good day 1 vote. Lurkers get replaced, scum ensures they stay above the lurker tag as people like to lynch them. Day 3/4 once the low posters have some content I can see going after them but day 1 is at least bad town. Lean scum.

Copper - leaning town didn't note the posts on my read through

Math Dino - null right now, his post frequency will lead to scum slips if he is scum

Gravity - null

Cultivation Theory - did not notice anything from him during read through. Checked ISO has only 2 posts. Please post more CT - null

Acyron 149 I like this reads list. Leaning town

BMWS - null, any firm reads from the whole missed hydra are ridiculous. It's not a town slip it's null.

Textcat - null

IK - I got strong town from Constintines slot in between the crap . Even as he was being replaced he kept scum hunting. This is my strongest town read.

VOTE: NotReallyGood

[GGG]

Hi Aneninen! Can I call you 'Anen' for short?

Regarding your most recent posts, you sound shy. You shouldn't be too hard on yourself with your playstyle. I'm sure it's fine! As for why I asked, I asked you and Acryon specifically because I find you two the hardest to read in this game. I don't know why; that's my fallacy as a human being.

210 to 214 Rudy discussing IIoA. It doesn't fit.

This is the helpful nice townie stuff I was referring to. It's playstyle based which isn't great but it feels like he wants to make friends to make him harder to lynch later.

[GGG]

Well, Rudolph, then you may be town.
As for Newbie, if it has been a coincidence, it must have been a weird one.
But, okay.
UNVOTE:

The problem is, that I thought that Newbie and Constantine are scum, the latter one because of misrepresenting me. So, right now, apart from saying that the scums might fly under the radar, I haven't got any useful scumreads. I'll wait for the replacements and check a couple of things tomorrow (I must have missed something important). But now, I gotta go, it's 0:25 here and I'm working tomorrow morning..............

I don't think the rest of the posting makes up for it. His first list had all kind of theories in it, he gets attacked backs off his lurker plan, then has no more scum reads.

[GGG]

1) I find Rudy's 210-214 scummy but I will dig back through his ISO for my concerns with his interactions with Constantine as well.

2) Going after lurkers on day one is at best a bad town behaviour. More often than not it is scummy. Not sure what else you are looking for

3) MD the first half of your ISO is a pissing match, trying to read that one way or another is pointless so you were null. By the time you started posting content I was glossing over your posts. I will have to read you more closely later. Your interrogation of me does put you to leaning town as it is trying to get info out rather than misrepresent or twist what I am saying.
BWMS 8 posts, only thing of note is a vote to policy lynch constintine. Disagree with the town slip.
Gravity - could maybe have a read on him. His Pastor stuff is what started me on the Rudy slot. So I suppose he leans slightly town upon review of his ISO.
Textcat - no content therefore null
CT - 2 posts so null.

4) as I was reading through the thread I noted that copper was leaning town, didn't record any post references. Rereading his ISO the reason I had that general feeling and still do is every post he makes has a point. There is no fluff. If you re-read the game there is so much fluff and bickering that someone making concise content filled posts comes of as town.

[GGG]

@GGG: Thanks for explaining your nulls. What fueled your town read of our slot?

-House

It started with you stating you are hunting town. If you actually do this as scum it will limit your hiding spots later on or create big contradictions in your logic when you need to back out of your town reads. I disagree with your town read of BMWS but I like the process. Then it was you terribad math. (That really should be null but it leans town to me).

[GGG]

1) I find Rudy's 210-214 scummy but I will dig back through his ISO for my concerns with his interactions with Constantine

286

Rudy, I could be reading this wrong but what over reactions to one vote are you talking about? Is it the vote you made because that doesn't make sense that you voted for him then the reason is because of his over reaction to your vote.

Can you clarify why you voted for him in the first place?

I don't think any vote against constintine ever made sense.

[GGG]

Yeah, I'm really not seeing what C+A and copper are. 3G's reads list was pretty scummy, and I still think the as of yet unaddressed "Day 3/4 once the low posters have some content I can see going after them but day 1 is at least bad town. Lean scum" is a scumslip.

Can anyone townreading 3G explain said townread? Cause I'm not seeing it.

@Anienyanonenanynonunquestionmarkoneninhallwaythingymous: Can you respond to the questions I asked you last page? Post 313.

And yeah, I forgot I was voting someone up for replacement. Should wait for that.
UNVOTE: NRG
VOTE: 3G

Edit: Towntell is probably saying his predecessor sucked. I'm guessing this is like the opposite of the Amished or something?

C+A clarifies it, I thought I did last night.

It's not a town read. It should have read at best bad town. Meaning either not good for the town or scummy. Hence the scum read on him

[GGG]

Well I might be too tired to react everything but there are a couple of things.

First of all, hi to all the replacements! On the other hand, BMWS's leaving is

Idiotking gave a towntell in his catchup, I mean his very first sentence.

On the other hand, I didn't like GGG's catchup at all. Plenty of nulls, scumreading Rudy and me but voting for NRG who's going to be replaced, as far as I know? Plus, a player who's already wagoned. Well, well, Glycine! Also, as Texcat said in 336, most of the reads are OMGUS.
(Note to self: if/when GGG flips scum later, Copper might be his partner because 339 might be a coaching-post. Ignore this comment if the scums have daytalk.)

This, plus the fact that Newbie just appeared right after I had voted for her is enough for putting back my vote there.

VOTE: GGG
Let's Rock!

I must admit that I've only quick-looked the game. So, if I've missed anything, please remind me!

Not seeing where my reads are OMGUS.

NRG never nentions my slot
Rudy gives a light read to it but doesn't seem to want to act on it very similar to coppers. I took this to match my keep an I on it deal with it later idea.
And you. Which is not an OMGUS as it has reasons behind it.

Why are you trying to twist my early reads into an OMGUS?

Also which one of my nulls do you disagree with and what are you basing your read on for those slots.

[GGG]

Liking GGG as town so far. His ability to point out where his gut reads come from is a great selling point. Granted it's only 1 gut read so far, so I'll be expecting similar performance in the future to maintain that read.

-House

House it appears you are buddying me quite strongly here.

Why, you are answering questions to defend me and doing a good job of it but this early you shouldn't have that good of read on me that you are doing some pretty heavy defence. I think you have more posts defending me than I do.

[GGG]

Sorry, I guess I needed a little break.
Thanks for subbing in, Idiotking and GGG!

I agree with the seemingly prevalent opinion that NRG's Gravity read was not really good. But I'm failing to see how having a bad meta read makes NRG scummy. It looked sincere to me. And did not seem opportunistic, unlike the votes for NRG.

When did lurking stop being a scum tell? I think lurking/low posting is absolutely a scum tell. At least in combination with other tells. I wouldn't vote a lurker solely based upon lurking, but I certainly consider it when deciding whether someone is scummy or not.

On preview:
GGG, I probably would have voted Constantine, but I did not want to suffer his attack like Rudy did. He might have appeared to be scum hunting to you, but his vote never followed his reads. And most of his reads looked like OMGUS to me.

Lurking past day 1 can be a scum tell. Scum will make sure that their day 1 play does not contain lurkers then push the vote for lurkers strategy early. This gets them through a few days with good excuses for joining wagons.

You are on my null list right now. What are your current reads.

[GGG]

@Cooper: "She is talking about Comstantine/Idiotking there, not Newbie/GGG." – then I misread that part. Ignore my respond about that.

@C+A: this "Oh man, wow. Constantine was just profoundly awful." – from Idiotking is a towntell because I add Mathdino's opinion that Constantine is a VI regardless of his Alignment. Besides, having thought about it, I've met a similar player like him before and he did the same as town. (In short: MissMarple-town positive.)

@MathDino: as for BWMS's RVS vote/unvote, I don't know what to think but it's weird indeed. Perhaps it was unnecessarily appeasing. Or at least, I'd never do that as a townie. I vote in the RVS or don't vote but that switch makes no sense. Let's see his replacement's forthcoming posts. As for TexCat, 336 gave me town vibes.

GGG says that voting lurkers is

at least

bad town. As in, best case scenario. So a lean scum would make sense if GGG has more reason to suspect what's-his-name than simply voting a lurker.

As for this post and for some others: the fact that Newbie wasn't posting is NOT a tell in itself. The fact that she did nothing here while she was active elsewere AND the fact that she appeared right after my vote ARE tells. Adding these to GGG's eintritt-posts make me think that GGG is scum.

@GGG: House as a player who's buddying others... I must laugh! ^_^

@MathDino: No, no, no, C+A is VERY far from Constantine, I think.

What is town about Tex's 336?

I still disagree with your active elsewhere tell. If lurking becomes a voting issue scum will not be lurkers. I do see how you responding after a vote might look scummy but I see that as a natural behaviour to respond to votes. We need to find better reasons for the vote than active elsewhere.

[GGG]

@ GGG
Also it seems that you're maintaining an argument with TexCat about lurking – but she's not voting for you at all.

Why does it matter if someone is voting for me or not if I am having a discussion about lurking? I didn't like her position that lurking was a scum tell so I pointed that out. It seems a little scummy that your expectation is that I would only respond if someone votes for me.

[GGG]

I'm not particurly fond of GGG either. He walks in with a reads post stating everyone is either null or scum for arbituary reasons. Why bother making a reads post if you're just going to say half the slots are just 'null, meh', or that someone is town or scum based on 'mostly gut'? Beyond that, I don't like his posts since: most posts afterwards have been defending his scumreads or nullreads.

Also I missed this post by GGG:

Rudy, I could be reading this wrong but what over reactions to one vote are you talking about?

I voted him based on him being a hypocrite and not scumhunting, which I said earlier. His replies loaded with bad language such as 'Fuck you', 'you're the VI' and other assorted insults reassured me with the vote at the time -- that's the overreaction I'm talking about. At the time, I wasn't familiar with his meta and thus didn't know he acted like this all the time, regardless of alignment. I'm completely baffled how you found Constantine to be your strongest townread. I'm afraid I disagree.

I haven't replaced into a game before. Doing it again I wouldn't post a mass of reads. I should have posted that the crap spewing really made it difficult to make solid reads and then stuck to the few I had strong feelings about rather than try to say something about everything. Now that the game is moving I will be able to do better. The reads I have strong feelings about are as follows:

Copper: every post is a post with purpose and is scum hunting - lean town

Anen: started out with the vote lurkers argument but since then she is trying to mislead saying all my scum reads are OMGUS and now has that weird post above.

NRG : I still like that read but it is growing stale and until his replacement shows up we can't do much.

IdiotKing via Constentine. 306 as he is leaving he is still scum hunting. 277 like the concept don't necessarily agree with the read as you and md were angry at him and not his play. Was anti lynch lurker. Lots of solid stuff in between the Mothe fuckers. I see why you don't see it as you were the target of the shitstorm.

I am pretty confident in the above 4 reads. Since NRG is inactive and waiting to be replaced

unvote

VOTE: annen

For non posters it looks like
NRG
BMWS
CT
Gravity

Hopefully we get replacements soon or can extend day one if we don't get active participation soon.

[GGG]

Here is a list of times already where C+B has tried (in some form) to tell everyone how they need to play the game. And there were more in the block near the end, but I got tired.

Scum tends to pay attention to pre/early game happenings for scheming and reputation building purposes.

Town doesn't have much to do pre-game and may miss out on details.

A bit early for associative tells.

-House

Never too early for townslip because those are often done in a single derp post.

Associative tells develop over time. Everyone will be interacting in interesting ways until we feel each other out.

BMWS isn't being lynched today, and quite likely not tomorrow unless he derps pretty hard.

-House

Manipulating a player's playstyle to fuel drama and trying to fabricate associative tells on the first page of the first day is pretty blatant scum play.

VOTE: Mathdino

Discussion of ongoing games is not game content. It should be taken directly to the game or list mods.

Accusations of rule breaking should be made via PM to the mods

to avoid this very scenario

.

Cease discussing ongoing games

now

.

No. Outside actions are not alignment indicative.

-House (past three C&A posts)

Besides, isn't it against some rule to use outside factors to claim someone's alignment?

Feels like you are in inappropriate territory and you need to stop.

-House

And for that last post, I'll just point you to a post you should be plenty familiar with:

Accusations of rule breaking should be made via PM to the mods to avoid this very scenario.

Going back through Arcy. I don't know what to make of this post. I don't really agree that this is telling people how to play? Arcy can you reiterate why this is scummy again.

[GGG]

Going back through Arcy. I don't know what to make of this post. I don't really agree that this is telling people how to play? Arcy can you reiterate why this is scummy again.

The gist is that 1) by making the kind of statements they did, they take a natural controlling role in the game, which makes it very easy to drive lynches, and 2) by being the person that dictates what the town view as scummy, it's easy to simply act in a way that runs contrary to this view.

And I get if you don't agree. I have called players out doing the same things in previous games and the town didn't listen to me, so I get it. These players do tend to turn out being scum though. I would just rather catch them before they manipulate the town into multiple mis-lynches.

Since you brought up previous play do you have any specific instances where this type of behaviour flipped scum.

[GGG]

I disagree that c/a posting is a anything like Victor in the other game. I am not seeing it. It feels like you are shoehorning one of your scum tells onto him.

[GGG]

Mod, if we don't have replacements will the day be extended or is our deadline a hard deadline?

[GGG]

I disagree that c/a posting is a anything like Victor in the other game. I am not seeing it. It feels like you are shoehorning one of your scum tells onto him.

Like I said, it's fine if you don't believe me, but I think that the characteristics being portrayed by C+A are much more indicative of scum than some of the other things being identified as alignment-indicative. I'm not doing this to promote any agenda other than one to lynch scum. I don't care about being right; I just feel that I am in this case and that C+A is scum.

I have Acry as lean town based on this exchange. I disagree with the argument on C/A but its consistent right now.

[GGG]

(Note to self: Acryon is a player who can win a game for his faction alone – or can lose a game for his faction alone.)

Why do you think this.

[GGG]

Nah, just do it!

Why are you just pushing for more votes instead of restating your case.

Is your case really just his logic on his C+A vote

[GGG]

Texcat why is your vote still on copper from back in RVS. Where are you at in terms of reads.

[GGG]

What reason does scum Acry have for picking C/A? Seems odd not to blend in and pick off easy lynches. I think he's town. I am willing to move to ensure a lynch at the deadline given that we need 7 of 9 active players to form a lynch. Also if he was scum why wouldn't he have backed out instead of doubling down on it defending it.

[GGG]

We currently sitting at

NRG
CT
BMWS
Gravity

Who have been inactive for a while. Is it likely we will get replacements for all four? What happens? Scum isn't going to waste any kills on that group so by day 3 we have 9 left with 4 inactives meaning we'd need unanimous lynches. So do people sub in past day 1. Does the mod step in and mod kill them or do we have to deal with them. These guys aren't lurkers they are just inactive.

If we have to deal with them I would suggest lynching NRG today. He is the scummiest of the inactives with his antigravity meta reads in 191.

[GGG]

Targeting lurkers, that's totally town.

There is a system in place for dealing with inactive players and I'm sure you are aware of this.

These guys aren't lurkers. I am anti targeting lurkers day 1. Texcat is a lurker these are inactives. My question is will we actually find replacements? If we hit the deadline without the replacements do we have to lynch or does the game pause.

In past games on this site do these spots fill eventually?

[GGG]

And you know they're inactive because... ?
By the way, why is NRG the scummiest?

CT hasn't posted in 11 days gravity in 10 days. Neither have said they are V/LA. Ergo inactive seems to be the correct word to describe them. Why are you making a passive aggressive attack instead of just coming out and saying what you are accusing me of.

NRGs meta read on gravity is a huge reach. BMWS and CT are solid nulls. You could make an argument around gravity if you buy nrgs meta read. I don't therefore NRG is the scummiest.

[GGG]

– That is a good thing.
– Yes, please.
– To err is to be human.
– I turn sheep into veal.
– Looking into those reasons. Do you think texcat is lurking?
– Indeed, as time and energy allows.. Random.org/list.

- Wake

Why are you using random.org as opposed to choosing. This looks like trying avoid taking responsibility for who you are doing deep analysis on. It allows you to stay on the outside avoiding more important people to read.

[GGG]

@mod. Are the hydra heads allowed to communicate with eachother outside the thread?

[GGG]

@mod. Are the hydra heads allowed to communicate with eachother outside the thread?

Our you could, you know, ask the hydra.

- House

What the fuck house.

Post 468 you want me to ask the mods about rules now it's ask the hydra. Make up your mind and quit being a dick. Also you might have well just answered the question instead of giving a passive aggressive response. If you would like me to ask

Are you and wake allowed to comunicate with eachother outside the thread.

[GGG]

– That is a good thing.
– Yes, please.
– To err is to be human.
– I turn sheep into veal.
– Looking into those reasons. Do you think texcat is lurking?
– Indeed, as time and energy allows.. Random.org/list.

- Wake

Why are you using random.org as opposed to choosing. This looks like trying avoid taking responsibility for who you are doing deep analysis on. It allows you to stay on the outside avoiding more important people to read.

Considering he hasn't been active for a while, that is hardly surprising. At least he is contributing something productive.

Take your negative bullshit elsewhere and push around the fluff posters.

- House

Don't understand this response at all. Why would not being active be a reason to use random.org. Also outside my first I am being productive. I am the only one trying to prevent us from lynching arcynon.

[GGG]

Why are you using random.org as opposed to choosing.

Because I want to.

This looks like trying avoid taking responsibility for who you are doing deep analysis on. It allows you to stay on the outside avoiding more important people to read.

Which part of "random" needs further elaboration?

- Wake

It's like using random.org for an RVS vote. It takes away responsibility of the player from making choices. I don't like any use of random.org by players. The why you picked someone can be just as important as the content this early.

[GGG]

We are two days from deadline. I will move to Acry, we need to get him to l-1 with intent before the end of tomorrow to deal with any role claims.

[post=acrynon]acrynon[/post]

[GGG]

We are two days from deadline. I will move to Acry, we need to get him to l-1 with intent before the end of tomorrow to deal with any role claims.

If anyone comes up with another viable wagon I am willing to go. I got nothing more then my suspicion of Anen which no one seems interested in.



VOTE: acrynon

[GGG]

Guys, okay, no analysis, but some setup stuff.

Can't we just play Follow The Cop now? Hear me out.

1. Cop claims.
2. Tell acryon to protect cop. If cop dies anyway, acryon is scum.
3. acryon dies.
4. Remaining doctor just protects cop every night.
5. ???
6. PROFIT

Cop becomes macho if doctor dies. Acrynon protects cop, 2nd doc protects Acry follow the cop works though.

[GGG]

Shit, completely misread the role. Somehow I had in my head that Macho meant they both couldn't protect the same target. Really newb of me.

unvote

I like Anen as a vote today of our actives. I don't mind lynching one of our inactives though as I don't see us getting 4 replacements.

I will re link to my ANen case afterwork today

[GGG]

Well I might be too tired to react everything but there are a couple of things.

First of all, hi to all the replacements! On the other hand, BMWS's leaving is

Idiotking gave a towntell in his catchup, I mean his very first sentence.

On the other hand, I didn't like GGG's catchup at all. Plenty of nulls, scumreading Rudy and me but voting for NRG who's going to be replaced, as far as I know? Plus, a player who's already wagoned. Well, well, Glycine! Also, as Texcat said in 336, most of the reads are OMGUS.
(Note to self: if/when GGG flips scum later, Copper might be his partner because 339 might be a coaching-post. Ignore this comment if the scums have daytalk.)

This, plus the fact that Newbie just appeared right after I had voted for her is enough for putting back my vote there.

VOTE: GGG
Let's Rock!

I must admit that I've only quick-looked the game. So, if I've missed anything, please remind me!

Not seeing where my reads are OMGUS.

NRG never nentions my slot
Rudy gives a light read to it but doesn't seem to want to act on it very similar to coppers. I took this to match my keep an I on it deal with it later idea.
And you. Which is not an OMGUS as it has reasons behind it.

Why are you trying to twist my early reads into an OMGUS?

Also which one of my nulls do you disagree with and what are you basing your read on for those slots.

anen misreps tex as she wasn't referring to me with her omgus. Misreps me saying all my reads are omgus. Then sets up a day one associative tell

until a better option comes up i am going here

VOTE: aneninen

[GGG]

In this case bad meta read meant scummy hence the vote for him at the end. NRG tried to clarify after other players challenged him. The posts are 191 and 216. In 216 he tries to justify his earlier reads by getting into even more minute detail on tone. It's like he picked his target and wouldn't let go. I wish his slot was replaced already so we could discuss it with him but that is the better explanation for my initial post.

[GGG]

anen misreps tex as she wasn't referring to me with her omgus. Misreps me saying all my reads are omgus.¹ Then sets up a day one associative tell²

(1) And I admitted in 360 that I had misread that part. (However, you started scumreading me after I provided a case against you. Excuse me but isn't that a bit OMGUS?)
(2) What do you mean by that?

1) you stated that all my reads were OMGUS not just my read of you which they weren't
2) you state if GGG flips scum then we should look at copper. This scum reads copper and copper can't defend himself at all. It's not as scummy in this form as the one of these two is scum type associative but still slightly scummy.

[GGG]

@mod. Do we have a deadline in 24hrs or are we pausing until replacements are found?

[GGG]

VOTE: NRG

Just in case we have a deadline today voting an inactive at least moves the game along and reduces the number of replacements. Would suggest scum in the interests of moving the game along kill one of the inactive townies. Then tmw we can only need two replacements and we keep going.

[GGG]

VOTE: NRG

Just in case we have a deadline today voting an inactive at least moves the game along and reduces the number of replacements. Would suggest scum in the interests of moving the game along kill one of the inactive townies. Then tmw we can only need two replacements and we keep going.

That post doesn't surprise me considering Math, acryon, and texcat are all discussing voting for you.

Instead of trying to address their concerns, you are trying to draw attention to the inactive players.

VOTE: GGG

I've addressed texcats concerns, Math hasn't made a case recently, Acry prefers Rudy over me. I dont see any outstanding accusations that need responding to in any of those people.

The entire case on me boils down to a shitty 1st post.

[GGG]

Vote Count 1.9
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Gravity(1)

- notreallygood

notreallygood(1)

- GGG

GGG(2)

- Cain + Able, texcat

Cain + Able(1)

- acryon

Acryon(1)

- Rudolph the Reindeer

Rudolph the Reindeer (1)

- Mathdino

Texcat (1)

- Idiotking


Searching for 2 replacements. :/
Gravity and CultivationTheory prodded, will be added to replacement list if they do not reply.
Deadline extended, current deadline will be clarified when replacements situation crystallizes.

thanks,

unvote

[GGG]

^^ scum slip?

Are you going with kill vs lynch or something else Kill vs lynch is null to me.

[GGG]

@Anen

Why did my unvote seem insincere? I have been concerned with plan for the replacements with the deadline approaching for a couple days. When it's been resolved with extra time until we get our replacements I unvoted.

Also your read on me appears to be just 343 which was newbie lurking (null) and my shitty first post. If your case is more than that now can you please elaborate.

[GGG]

Sigh. I hate compromise wagons, but I'll join this one.

Vote: GGG

What is your case on me? Seems odd to do a naked vote after the deadline was extended. I am your #2 read behind Acry or #3 behind Matt as well?

[GGG]

There's probably scum in {Rudy, 3G}. Thoughts?

Or do you really have a grand total of one (1) developed read?

Complaining about the rest of the town doesn't do anything. Instigate discussion and scumhunting by doing it yourself, interrogating, prompting people, and they'll follow you. This activity level is not any one person's fault but any one person can help it. And I do take some responsibility for the slight apathy I've had this game compared to my others.

Why is there probably scum between us, I find people presenting either or cases scummy. You are setting up a double mislynch.

[GGG]

There's probably scum in {Rudy, 3G}. Thoughts?

Or do you really have a grand total of one (1) developed read?

Complaining about the rest of the town doesn't do anything. Instigate discussion and scumhunting by doing it yourself, interrogating, prompting people, and they'll follow you. This activity level is not any one person's fault but any one person can help it. And I do take some responsibility for the slight apathy I've had this game compared to my others.

Why is there probably scum between us, I find people presenting either or cases scummy. You are setting up a double mislynch.

It's not hard to see why people suspect either one of you, so to say one of the two is likely is a fair statement to make.

Why is either more probable than both or neither.

[GGG]

There's probably scum in {Rudy, 3G}. Thoughts?

Or do you really have a grand total of one (1) developed read?

Complaining about the rest of the town doesn't do anything. Instigate discussion and scumhunting by doing it yourself, interrogating, prompting people, and they'll follow you. This activity level is not any one person's fault but any one person can help it. And I do take some responsibility for the slight apathy I've had this game compared to my others.

Why is there probably scum between us, I find people presenting either or cases scummy. You are setting up a double mislynch.

It's not hard to see why people suspect either one of you, so to say one of the two is likely is a fair statement to make.

Why is either more probable than both or neither.

I don't see neither of you being scum. Hey, I could be wrong (usually am, in fact), but you are both playing a hinky game.

Both is possible, I guess?? But I think it would be more telling to see who would actually push that theory.

I can easily see where an either/or theory came from. Maybe you could too if you weren't one of the potential lynches being discussed.

Either or with no case being made just sets up future mislynches with scum picking two townies and building a case against both. Early day one either/ors are a play. There is no associative tell day one. It all can be faked.

[GGG]

I'm out until replacements come.

@Mod please pm me when the game is ready to be played.

[GGG]

Woohoo we are back playing.

[GGG]

Post 323 from GGG is a really odd line-up of reads that clash at points. The notreallygood scumread clashes with the nullreads on MathDino and Gravity and the scumread on Rudolph. The comment about townreading acryon for his readslist (post 149) is also strange given that out of 11 slots, he agrees with acryon on only 3 of them. I'm also not sure how the notreallygood vote follows from the reads list.

I'm still thinking about what kind of logical framework could have been used to obtain this reads list, but there isn't an obvious one.

The answer is no logical framework. I had never replaced into a game before and did a very poor job of it. 388I did a read through made some notes and posted without checking any kind of logical consistency between early reads.

[GGG]

I've got few things to think about, but in the meantime, the only way to go is forward.

VOTE: GGG

Can you outline your reasons for voting for me? From what I can tell you didn't like my first post and you didn't like my NRG push.

I agree my first post sucked and have addressed it. I also stand by my position that the correct play if the day wasn't going to be paused lynching the scummiest inactive was the right play. I should have pushed it harder, instead we got the acryon claim.

[GGG]

I also stand by my position that the correct play if the day wasn't going to be paused lynching the scummiest inactive was the right play.

This sounds a lot like choosing the path of least resistance to me, which is what many as scum see as the best way to lock in mislynches. Didn't you have any scumreads on the players active at the time?

Yes Anen, the train was and still is going nowhere. It was also the correct play until the game was paused. Trying to lynch an inactive certainly isn't the path of least resistance as you can see no one was interested in doing it and rarely is. Also I heavily defend Acry which definately wasn't the path of least resistance. The path of least resistance would have been voting for him.

[GGG]

VOTE: Rudy
No, but you're scum for trying to lynch a claimed PR (which would make the cop macho if he's telling the truth).

Has scum ever tried to lynch a power role after a claim? I've seen town who are com biased do it because they are so sure on their read but never scum, it's too obv scum.

[GGG]

There's probably scum in {Rudy, 3G}. Thoughts?

Or do you really have a grand total of one (1) developed read?

Complaining about the rest of the town doesn't do anything. Instigate discussion and scumhunting by doing it yourself, interrogating, prompting people, and they'll follow you. This activity level is not any one person's fault but any one person can help it. And I do take some responsibility for the slight apathy I've had this game compared to my others.

There are 2 other scum and I'm not feeling a C+A lynch today. Who else is scum?

You're the closest we've got to a confirmed town, you noping the hell out of this thread because people don't believe your one (1) scumread is not helpful.

Pushing others to make cases for him but also narrowing parameters. This allows him to get discussion going on his suspects without him starting it

[GGG]

Aggressive defence of who? C+A?

Definitely see why you may have issues with me this game. I need a perceived townsperson to talk to if there's no one already confirmed. Wisdom was it in 575 (yes I know I was wrong) and C+A is it this game. I will say that I'm much more confident in this read than the Wisdom one.

Why do you need a perceived townie to talk to. This goes back to the post above where you are pushing Arcy to make the reads for you. I will have to read your meta you are referring to but it seems like a good way to absolve yourself from doing the dirty work

[GGG]

Other reads. I have TTH as leaning town, boo kitty leaning town, really like boos read of texcat. Not sure if it's quite scum yet but it's what was bugging me about his play.

Really want milk to post as NRG was a early scumread for me.

[GGG]

Misrep isn't a scumtell. It's a "I'm not properly reading the game" tell.

Who even does NK speculation anymore? As Orc says, it's a very safe fakeclaim for scum to make.

All these new rules! What exactly is a scum tell these days? Whatever happened to the easy rules of lynch all lurkers, lynch all liars, and third person on the bandwagon is scum? And I always do NK speculation, though I will admit that it seldom leads anywhere.

I'm giving acryon's read of Rudolph credence because macho doc is a stupid fake claim coming from scum imho.

There is no way he's living until lylo with that out there, and I don't see scum cutting their own life span like that.

Am I mis-reading this? Just because Acryon is alleged town doesn't make his reads any better than yours or mine, it only makes them sincere.

house do you have a finished scumgame?

Please tell me that you are not going to read some old game to do meta on House before you even bother to read this game!
Do you have any actual interest in scum hunting this game?

Don't like, this is an active lurking post. I'm sheeping boo kitty and getting on board this wagon

VOTE: textcat

[GGG]

@tex

For me it was your 918. You hadn't posted in a while and the post just had no content then you left. So it appears you were trying to look active while not having to make any arguements

[GGG]

Math, I thought I answered in post 943. I'm pretty sure that I've told you before that getting indignant is not a scum tell, but you should judge for yourself.

GGG, 918, is the same post Math is agitated about, and that I tried to explain in the above link. Rudy laughed. At least one person thought it was funny. I mean, really, does anyone think that the third person on a bandwagon is scum?

Is post 918 somehow "active lurking"? I still don't get what that means. You say that it had no content, but I thought it did. Granted that I

tried

to make a joke about scum tells, but I also did try to make a point about Orc not scum hunting and asked question about C+A's post that didn't make sense to me. I wasn't trying to look active, I was responding to the new posts in the thread.

I know you were joking with the reads thing. That's where I picked up the active lurk from. I thought your second point was just stating the obvious and the last just appeared to be frustration. None of it appeared to be advancing your reads.

[GGG]

I was serious about it and it was an indirect question of "can you point it out where he active-lurked?"

918 was the obvious active lurker post 200 posts had elapsed from his last post and you get 918

Previous to that tex had been very inactive poping in to post a quick read and then out. Since the call out after 918 his play has changed and now is actively scum hunting.

I don't like the Rudy wagon. The push to lynch the doctor is null as combiased town will continue their push. Why else are people not like Rudolph?

I don't get the Orc/gif thing

Gif I didn't see a reason but why the random vote. You allude to it being because no one questioned your 1 word town reads but this doesn't make sense.

[GGG]

What's the Orc /gif case?

-orcs an ass
- gif random vote thing?

[GGG]

As for Rudolph, I've already explained a couple of times that even if Acryon lies, lynching him could be greater loss if he's a Doc for real than gain if he's lying (he'll get caught because of his lie later anyway.)
As for GiF, I wrote something a couple of posts ago.

As for the other posts: BooKitty and C+A are giving me town vibes and I'm start thinking that TexCat might be town too.
Milky is still not here. I'd like to see more posts from IdiotKing,

he's been producing even less content than me which is surpris

ummm, he could produce more content. (Oh whew, fortunately noone has noticed the part I striked out. Had they been, they would have found my Un-lynchable 79-shot-Bulletproof Vigilante Ninja SK slip. ^_^ )

I understand why lynching Acry is a bad idea right now, however. Rudy pushing to lynch him is just as likely combiased town as it is scum. I'm wondering what else is scummy about him because I don't see it

[GGG]

OK, so I think I was wrong about my GGG scumread now that I reread his ISO. My now revised scumreads are MathDino, Texcat and Acryon

Going back through your ISO why did your read change on me? Early on you consistently had me on your scum list.

[GGG]

Vote Count 1.15
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Rudolph the Reindeer (4)

- acryon, Idiotking, Cain + Able, TellTaleHeart

texcat (4)

- bookitty, GGG, Rudolph the Reindeer, Mathdino

GuyInFreezer (4)

- copper223, texcat, My Milked Eek, Aneninen

(expired on 2014-12-09 14:00:00) until deadline

Edited as of post 1235 to fix a mistake

This is an interesting vote count that makes me have to revisit my reads.

I have thought the milked eek slot was town, texcat, and Anen were scum but there is no way they would let themselves all be on the same wagon so my reads are certainly wrong right now. There is probably one scum on each wagon but without gif voting there could be a wagon without scum on it.

Looking at the texcat wagon of boo, myself, Rudy and math Dino. I am reading md and boo as very town. So that leaves Rudy as the scum on this wagon. I like TTHs confidence thing and after re isoing Rudy became more suspicious of him.

unvote

VOTE: rudy

[GGG]

1 day and a bit to deadline.

Of the existing wagons I prefer Rudy right now and would also vote texcat. I don't like the GIF wagon. I will move close to the deadline to the leading candidate to assure a lynch.

[GGG]

VOTE: Rudolf

I still think that

Orc

GIF is scum, but it doesn't look like that lynch is going to happen.

TTH made a pretty good case in 1157 and 1256. I'm assuming that scum started pushing me because they thought I would be an easy target. Orc was the leading wagon when I suddenly got two quick votes from GGG for active lurking and Orc who was just sheeping GGG. Then later Rudy and Dino voted for the same active lurking case.

Pedit: We'll miss you, but just focus on getting and staying healthy, Wake.

This post is real scummy, it's got all the bases covered, if Rudy flips scum there is a scum read, if Rudy flips town there is reluctance.

[GGG]

I don't get how you are reading this as "real scummy". Because I explained that though I am moving my vote off GIF I still find him scummy? If I were scum I would know how Rudy was going to flip.

Tex / Rudy both scum, tex moves the vote to gain town cred as he only moved after Rudy moved into the lead.
Tex scum / Rudy town, tex moves from towny to towny while maintaining her scum read.
Town tex moving to ensure lynch occurs.

It's sets up justification for both outcomes so that it looks natural when we go back. Essentially she is trying to slip on the wagon without being noticed. I think it's the way she sheeps TTHs read to make the justification is what pings it for me when it was originally posted it was ignored by tex.

Essentially if Rudy flips scum tex is real scummy, if Rudy flips town I still don't like the post but it has far less implicating value.

[GGG]

Vote Count 1.15
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Rudolph the Reindeer (4)

- acryon, Idiotking, Cain + Able, TellTaleHeart

texcat (4)

- bookitty, GGG, Rudolph the Reindeer, Mathdino

GuyInFreezer (4)

- copper223, texcat, My Milked Eek, Aneninen

(expired on 2014-12-09 14:00:00) until deadline

Edited as of post 1235 to fix a mistake

This is an interesting vote count that makes me have to revisit my reads.

I have thought the milked eek slot was town, texcat, and Anen were scum but there is no way they would let themselves all be on the same wagon so my reads are certainly wrong right now. There is probably one scum on each wagon but without gif voting there could be a wagon without scum on it.

Looking at the texcat wagon of boo, myself, Rudy and math Dino. I am reading md and boo as very town. So that leaves Rudy as the scum on this wagon. I like TTHs confidence thing and after re isoing Rudy became more suspicious of him.

unvote

VOTE: rudy

This post is almost surreal.

The "there's exactly one scum on each wagon premise" is incredibly specific without much logical backing. What would be unreasonable about two scum being on a wagon, especially if one of the current wagons is

on

scum? The implications aren't applied evenly across the vote count either. Is GiF actually scum, and if so, which wagon is all-town? The logic here is very cumbersome because such a drastic change in reads is accompanied by such bizarre reasons. The conclusions even collapse on themselves. It seems like now you think that texcat and Rudolph are both scum, but somehow you still think that scum would be evenly spread over all three wagons even though 2 out of 3 are on scum? Why would that be?

So this started with my scum reads being Anen, tex, my milked eek

Can we agree that is not possible given the vote count?

If 2 of 3 leading lynch candidates are scum I do think it is probable that there is 1 scum on each wagon. Otherwise when we start flipping suspects the vote patterns are going to sink them very quickly. At a minimum 1 of the scum will have voted for 1 of the other scum.

Why have you taken my quote of there is probably one scum on each wagon to misrepresent it into there is exactly one scum on each wagon. I mean your are quoting the post

[GGG]

Why have you taken my quote of there is probably one scum on each wagon to misrepresent it into there is exactly one scum on each wagon. I mean your are quoting the post

You said yourself that unless GiF is scum, in which case there would be an all town wagon, you think there's one scum on each wagon.

What's being misrepresented?

Your are increasing the surety of my statement. Probably contains less surety then exactly. However, It is fair to say that I am basing my scum hunting on finding one per wagon.

[GGG]

Where did you post that you kept finding rudy scummy but wrote it off as playstyle. I don't see it. Certainly you didn't mention it between when TTH made his posts.

[GGG]

@GGG
1111

Thanks, will have to revisit this tomorrow

[GGG]

Vote Count 1.15
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Rudolph the Reindeer (4)

- acryon, Idiotking, Cain + Able, TellTaleHeart

texcat (4)

- bookitty, GGG, Rudolph the Reindeer, Mathdino

GuyInFreezer (4)

- copper223, texcat, My Milked Eek, Aneninen

(expired on 2014-12-09 14:00:00) until deadline

Edited as of post 1235 to fix a mistake

Looking at the vote on texcat is interesting. Following my logic of one scum per wagon this means Math Dino or I are scum. The alternate that TTH was saying you could have no scum on a wagon especially if texcat were scum which may be possible. So the choice for me today (knowing that I am town) is between Math Dino and Texcat. The math Dino and texcat is also a possibility. I hate doing the either or is scum because it's easy for scum to set that up to lynch two townies. But in this case I don't see that is possible for 4 townies to vote for another townie without scum being involved.

[GGG]

@matt You always switch doors, has nothing to do with this 1 per wagon thing.

Texcat or you is scum, question is which one.

[GGG]

I still think it's you, GGG.

VOTE: GGG

Well at least you aren't disagreeing with the premise.

[GGG]

You missing the fact that it isn't random. I'm not using math or probability to prove anything. Math is essentially useless in mafia because human behaviour is involved.

Take the texcat wagon. Show a game where a wagon on a townie has 4 townies and no scum when there are two other competing wagons. Because that is what you are arguing right now.

You see the word probable and think coin flips unfortunately human behaviour isn't governed by coin flips.

[GGG]

You pull a RVS wagon vote to prove me wrong. Really??

You think that has any similarity to the situation.

Again I am not using math I am using behaviour to analyse voting patterns.

Pedit:

Scum want to avoid wagoning together, note I said probably, not there definitely is one.

Do you believe that on a four person wagon on which two people have flipped town that either the wagon target or one of the remaining two is scum.

Because I believe 100% of the time this is true. So it's me you or texcat.

[GGG]

Do you read the posts

Initially I said 1 per wagon, now with the flips I am more focused on the wagonee plus the wagon. Which is a different case.

It's fine if you ignore my arguments today but my focus will be between you and texcat as one of you is scum.

[GGG]

GGG made the bolded statement.

[GGG]

GGG made the bolded statement.

Read the

entire

post.

So why did you bold two statements.

[GGG]

Also to me that reads like a texcat confession.

vote:texcat

[GGG]

Math Dino, in a lot of ways your flip out looks a lot like scum freaking out for being caught for what you see as the dumbest logic ever. I have to reread c+as terrible math stuff early on to see how your reaction comoares

[GGG]

GGG made the bolded statement.

Read the

entire

post.

So why did you bold two statements.

You really don't pay attention, do you?

I didn't bold either of them.

It doesn't appear so.

[GGG]

Math Dino, in a lot of ways your flip out looks a lot like scum freaking out for being caught for what you see as the dumbest logic ever. I have to reread c+as terrible math stuff early on to see how your reaction comoares

You've managed to trip almost every single one of my pet peeves in one go with worse logic than C+A's. Hell, I think if IK or C+A end up being scum you have a damn good shot at being right about the wagon shit... but only because it was likely to happen anyway. Let's take a look:
1. Shitty math, pisses me off because I'm a nerd and my biggest problem with Interstellar is they fucking CAN'T GET MURPHY'S LAW RIGHT IT'S ONE OF THE MOST SIMPLE THINGS EVER WTF (otherwise a good movie)
2. Hypocrisy, "I don't want to make 'either/or's, but SCUM IS EITHER X OR Y GUYS", which I feel would be a damn good excuse for pushing that kind of logic anyway and not getting scumread for it.
3. Tunneling based on said shitty math without even having legitimate reasons for these reads
4. Not even scumhunting (no, fairy dust doesn't count as scumhunting, sorry) and clearly not paying attention enough to scumhunt outside of said shitty math
Oh also in that game STD got to L-2 with my vote and IIRC 4/5 of those votes weren't RVS, so fuck that.

Furthermore my frustration stems from the fact that logic says to keep pressuring texcat so I can get a read, but gut and emotions say to vote you since you're very clearly aware of how your argument sucks and why lining up lynches is bad but you do it anyway. This isn't even newb ignorance, this nears self-admitted bullshit. I find it difficult to believe you believe 1 scum per town wagon holds ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE TIME.

I will sheep C+A, he makes a compelling argument above.
VOTE: 3G

So what your saying is I am right that me you or texcat is scum yet you rail against how I got there.

[GGG]

So Matt you spent a lot of posts and time on a meta analysis of copper and got nothing out of it. This type of meta read scum hunting is often scummy because reading meta you can find exactly what you are looking for.

[GGG]

So it's like your towngame but minus the analysis. Is that a euphemism for 'That's my scumgame'?

Nope, this happens sitewide. While I don't suck at live interaction with players, it doesn't show my thought process nearly as well as reads lists and cases, and the more I completely bare my thought process, the more I get townread.

If you find any patterns that don't have to do with less time, orcinus, feel free. This is just a basic PSA to anyone metareading me.

Bunch of self meta, again easily manipulated.

[GGG]

@MD. Your ISO provides no basis for your scum read on texcat. You have a point on active lurking which you can't define and one comment where you played with scum tex before and this feels like scum tex

What's your texcat case?

[GGG]

Doc in this game is a role that can't be CC'd. What you did just gave me an inkling of worrying that you/acryon were scum together. That said, currently townreading your behaviour this page, so it's good.

I'm scumreading Rudy and GGG. Rudy for continuing to try to lynch acryon after he claimed (and being the primary pusher of his wagon), and GGG for reasons that I'm gonna have to write a mini case on later because that'll take at least 10-15 mins.

Scum reads Rudy for pushing Acry after claim. This was clearly null at not scummy.

[GGG]

The more I read Matt Dino's ISO the more combiased I get. Essentially, despite posting prolifically in the game he has very little real content in terms of reads. Essentially every read is a wifomy little thing. There are no cases being made by him. Twice he has argued with people over math which again is null to wifomy.

vote: math dino

[GGG]

So you didn't have time to present a case on texcat but had time to go brought a meta read on copper? This is an odd choice of priorities. Your case on texcat should essentially be able to be made in a few minutes. If someone asks why you are voting for someone you should be able to answer.

You miss the point on self meta. I am saying you are picking a few things out and presenting them. This way when we look for it we will find what you told us to see.

1) all reads are combiased
2). On reads I should clarify you do present the odd reads but in terms of reasons to back it up it's worse than my entry into the game.
3) I will start work on this.
4) what cases have you made prior to the one on me. Quote from your ISO please, it's all non committal half assed reads. Not compared to any meta. Your case on tex consists of active lurking which you can't define and you played with scum her.. Where's the rest. This was good for your day 1 vote?
5) You spent a page or two arguing with C/A over math. It didn't matter, none of it was allignment indicitive, none of it furthered reads, it was all null. Look at your statement here about math, yes it is objective but behaviours are not. The number of scum on a wagon is not subject to random distribution.

[GGG]

GGG:
The problem I have with your 1 scum per wagon read, is that to me it kind of makes sense only if we had 3 town wagons yesterday, and how would you know that? Moreover if that's the case why is Texcat a scumread of yours? If we had at least 1 scum between the three the 1-1-1 split makes much less sense to me, I think in that case a 2-1-0 or a 3-0-0 is more logical, it's likely scum want to avoid their partner getting lynched D1 much more than being afraid of long term associative reads.

This is what TTH was saying yesterday and it is a possibility and I do consider it. Disagree that their would be three scum on one wagon though.

I'm more interested in math Dino now as he appears to me to be scum mad at getting accused for what he sees as his pet peeve, stupid logic and bad math. Rather than a townie defending himself

[GGG]

@copper

1438 in particular this section.

Right, okay, so you're saying I'm lurking sitewide to make way for lurking in this one game as scum for no reason?
Your buzzword doesn't work. What am I doing here as scum? Because I find the first statement to be absolutely true based on other players' behaviours in my games.

[GGG]

@GGG
You're right, I missed that post from TTH because I was focused on Rudi at the time.

Your reply makes little sense to me though, first you change your scumreads, Tex Anen and MME based on the all-town assumption and then you give scumreads that directly violate said assumption by including Tex in them.

Further you can argue you said probably but if you base the whole gameplan on it, you are arguing semantics, why is it probable that the 1-1-1 split happened and and that Texcat is scum?

If your defence is Dino is the scum here I can respect that approach, can you make a post that summarizes where he reacts as scum being caught today?

I changed my town reads based on all 3 scum being on the same wagon being highly unlikely.

[GGG]

The GGG wagon being completely unopposed isn't a good sign.

Hmm. This could be explained by texcat bussing, methinks. texcat has a history of hardbussing, and 3G's not only probably the weakest link on the scumteam, but his flip also half 'clears' her.

How does this work when I flip town? Your using pre-flip associative meta to confirm scum reads.

Basically you are saying that because scum tex would bus her partner that I must be scum so the vote makes sense. This only a day after you were arguing that either myself or texcat is scum. You're overplaying the lynch with the nice unvote.

[GGG]

I won't be self hammering, how this vote plays out I think is important to finding scum. I don't think I will be escaping lynch though.

The problem with this game has been it has been very disjointed so it's made it difficult to get good reads.

[GGG]

Given the activity level of some players (Acryon IK MME) it's possible/certain they haven't seen the thread yet, I'd like to give them time to post their reads and/or get substituted before lynching someone, so please give them a few days to do so before stating intent if you want to do so.

This to me looks scummy. I have town read copper all game but this post has a look at me I'm so town feel to it.

[GGG]

Looking at my wagon

C/A kicks it off with no reason
Math Dino votes with cause
Copper sheeps c/A
Anen jumps on with a terrible, I just like the people on the wagon read
Idiot king jumps on for a bizarre reason of me saying texcats post read like a confession
MD hops off the wagon
Texcat hops on to put it back at l1

So TTH where is the opportunistic scum? Idiot kings l1 vote looks like someone trying to find a reason for getting on the wagon.
Anens looks pretty bad as well. I'm omgusing everyone right now so my thoughts right now aren't that useful.

[GGG]

@GGG

what a bizarre read.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If it looks like it has a town feel it's because only town can profit from it and I'm also wondering at the lack of resistance, so I'd like to have the full picture before committing.

It's a post that appears like you are trying to appear town. It's purpose is to make you look town.

[GGG]

@C+A
Ok, I'll roll with this for now:

VOTE: GGG

Here is the post you voted for me

If I am misinterpreting can you point to your posts which do outline your case?

[GGG]

It's a post that appears like you are trying to appear town. It's purpose is to make you look town.

The purpose of the post is to avoid a quick end to the day allowing people to get away with minimal contribution, if it shows my alignment as well that's good news.

I have a case on you, you can argue I was sheeping TTH but I think that if you read carefully the two accusations you can see they are indipendent of each other, why do you say I'm sheeping C+A? The only thing I got from C+A is Tex is slightly more likely to be town which means you are also slightly more likely to be mafia.

@Dino
If someone quick hammers I'll be happy to lynch tomorrow, if GGG self hammers as mafia I'm also fine with that.

Your logic fails though.

If I am scum I just quick hammer to end the day if I want to end discussion, if I am town and someone quick hammers you lynch them for it. So your post isn't neccessary

[GGG]

I see IK as a white knighting. He was called out by both myself and TTH for getting on the wagon. When I flip his bad entry immediately becomes suspect. If we are scum buddies he would have been better off just focusing on one of his other scum reads than me.

His calling it a gambit is so poor as the results of his gambit were to scum read math Dino who got off the wagon and copper who was posting for patience. He practically states that these were the town reactions he was looking for, gets them, then scum reads people for them.

[GGG]

Edit sorry I misread iks post he has moved texcat down to scum not math dino. He still has math as town.

[GGG]

It's scummy to try to keep the wagon at L-1, not to get off of it. Copper's "let's wait" thing is unconvincing to me. Rather than "why the hell are we at L-1 already!?" as it should have been, he was outright OK with the lynch; he just wanted to pay lip service to giving people time to chime in. Math backing off (while still keeping GGG as a scumread) is townie to me; it's avoiding a quicklynch and examining why we headed for one. TTH examining my reads is townie. My problem with the post I quoted is not that I see TTH's argument as scummy; it's just ineffective if you point out what you're looking for. It's like voting someone to pressure them, but then saying your vote is only to add pressure and that you wouldn't be willing to lynch the person. It negates the point of doing it in the first place.

And I don't think I should have to point out how texcat's vote to put you back at L-1 is scummy.

Whyd you move to l-1

[GGG]

Huh?

In 1471 you put the l-1 vote on me.

[GGG]

Yes I did.

The question was why did you do that?

[GGG]

To see how people would react.

Were you concerned that someone would derp hammer?

[GGG]

Not really. It'd make for an amazingly easy lynch tomorrow.

But you didn't declare it was l-1. So it seems like you were baiting someone to derp hammer, then lynch them tomorrow as well.

[GGG]

One other question IK, you got reactions from copper, tex and Matt. Why not wait for Anen or any of the others to chime in. Why end your so called gambit prematurely

[GGG]

I am off of Matt Dino after his hatred of a Abacuses.

I'm not sure on idiot king. I would still like my question answered of why he didn't keep the gambit going beyond tex and coppers reactions.

I am back on the texcat wagon.

vote texcat

. That's l-2

[GGG]

The amount of suspicion for IK's lies is not matching the number of votes on him. Meanwhile the strength of the texcat case in comparison isnt matching the difference in votes.

Calling shenanigans. Vote stands.

Why is idiot kings gambit anything more than just bad town? Are you putting a lot of stock in the intent to hammer thing?

[GGG]

Tth when you say obvious answer that no one will believe who are you referring to?

[GGG]

I really like TTHs post. I am going back to read coppers town and scum game to see if he is flawlessly logical in all games.

(I realize I am flip flopping around)

I do think IK is town though, it feels like one of these that's sooooooo scummy everyone vote type wagons.

[GGG]

@GGG
What TTH is implying there is everyone on your second L-1 was a potential mafia, with the possible exception of Aneninen who as per her last read on him is lynchable due to Boo's NK. You previously told me it was very unlikely all 3 mafia would group up and be on the Rudi lynch and you changed your scumreads accordingly, because they didn't make sense based on that.

So, have you now changed your mind about that belief? If so why do you think scum targeted you in particular at the start of D2 and why did the lynch stall out?

It's really the scumread on you I was referring to. When I jumped into the game the reason I read you town because you were contributing with every post. The logic being almost too perfect. Even here I am your scum read and instead of pushing me as scum for doing this you point out the logical inconsistency. This sounds ridiculous but it's too town. Hence me wanting to look at your meta.

I think that there is 1 maybe 2 max on my wagon. I don't see three bussing me.

[GGG]

@GGG
What TTH is implying there is everyone on your second L-1 was a potential mafia, with the possible exception of Aneninen who as per her last read on him is lynchable due to Boo's NK. You previously told me it was very unlikely all 3 mafia would group up and be on the Rudi lynch and you changed your scumreads accordingly, because they didn't make sense based on that.

So, have you now changed your mind about that belief? If so why do you think scum targeted you in particular at the start of D2 and why did the lynch stall out?

It's really the scumread on you I was referring to. When I jumped into the game the reason I read you town because you were contributing with every post. The logic being almost too perfect. Even here I am your scum read and instead of pushing me as scum for doing this you point out the logical inconsistency. This sounds ridiculous but it's too town. Hence me wanting to look at your meta.

I think that there is 1 maybe 2 max on my wagon. I don't see three bussing me.

The fuck?

What's wrong with this. There won't always be one scum on every wagon at all times and copper seemed to be trying to push that read on me.

[GGG]

Actually forget I asked that. Us arguing is anti town at best.

[GGG]

@GGG
How long have you been playing this game (hold on Dino)?

On this site I have 2 completed games, overall about 10 completed games. This is by far my worst game I have played.

[GGG]

How familiar would you say you are with the jargon?

Acronyms are hit amd miss but intent to hammer os pretty clear after your first newb game.

[GGG]

@texcat: Yes. If he flips scum, his 3 partners were on his wagon.
Legit.

i think i was using the term wrong as i was using it to mean all voting for me. Which should have been wagoning.

Now i dont expect anyone to believe me but in a game with 3 scum posting that 3 scum are bussing me doesnt make sense unless i am using the word wrong.

As an aside do scum slips actually work to catch scum. I have found when someone says something is a scum slip its usually pretty null. Do you guys have any examples of it actually working?

[GGG]

@GGG
Many times, the last I remember was wgeurts in newbie game 1543, he said

kill

instead of lynch.

Really because I have lynched town with this exact slip.

[GGG]

@GGG

Now i dont expect anyone to believe me but in a game with 3 scum posting that 3 scum are bussing me doesnt make sense unless i am using the word wrong.

Yes but you posted 1 or 2 max, not 3. What do you think of Texcat's bad logic then?

@Tex
If GGG flips scum there cannot be 3 bussing him (unless he busses himself) as there are 3 in total, it looks like you are assuming GGG is town while making a statement about what to think if he will flip scum, which could mean you know he is town to begin with and that's why your logic was bad.

What's your read on C+A?

I said I don't see 3 bussing me which makes no sense if it's a scum slip.

Tex's post assumes I am town when she says 0 or 3 bussing. This doesn't fit her current read of me. I would like an explanation. There is one I can think of that makes sense to me.

[GGG]

Drunk right now. Will try to catch up tomorrow.

Drunken gut says coppers scun

[GGG]

@copper

Read your micro 415 - couple of things. You were town read early by most people, you hunted by pointing out logical inconsistencies and pushing them.

Still have to read your town game

[GGG]

@GGG
Did I give my scumreads the benefit of the doubt?

No more than this game.

[GGG]

@GGG

Anyone reading that game know you are full of it.

Quick summary of 415:
- I threw everything and my kitchen sink at Lia D1, in fact Alchemist almost turned on me for over pressing.
- I tried to bury alchemist/FG D2.
- D3 town outplayed scum so I couldn't really do much.
- I started my lylo by insta voting Cephrir and confirming Mollie D4.

Let's see what you come up with after reading my town game.

I see that you are self metting to get a town read on yourself. I don't like it. I will find what I find the fact you are trying to lead me to look for certain things is scummy.

[GGG]

VOTE: GGG
1. You give me a retarded scumread that I'm too town to be town because I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt when a townie wouldn't and say you will meta read me.
2. I know that if you do that you will find among the available scum meta that I did the exact opposite.
3. You reply that I behaved the same in both games
4. I tell everyone why you are full of shit

That's not use of self meta, that's showing why you are a liar.

Where did I include in my scum read of you that "giving you the benefit of the doubt" was the basis for my your too town case. It seems you are creating this strawman meta case you want everyone to look at.

[GGG]

Okay What you are calling benefit of the doubt what I am calling looking at the logical consistency of posts. What I see in that game is you logically attacking all the arguments. And you don't just tunnel lia in that game. At one point you switch over to fake god as your read.

Now you're calling me a liar for not agreeing with your self meta. I think in your scum game you use the Same approach you do here.

[GGG]

@GGG
I switched to FG, and notice he was not a scumread, he was someone I wanted to end up reading as null, only because nobody was following me on Lia and I never changed my read on her like I did with BMWS/Boo and Texcat already this game nor did I give her the chance to explain herself like I did with you.

The rest was me trying to look town by appearing to scumhunt as usual, if you hadn't blatantly lied about my scum meta I would have waited for your read on my town game, but there is no need now as I'm pretty sure you are scum.

You have one scum game.
You are pushing this said meta as the way you always play scum
You are misrepresenting what is actually in that meta and my case. I still don't know what you are talking about with your boo/BMWS case
You are accusing me of lying when I am not.

Essentially you are trying to say that when you're scum you always tunnel and never reverse a read and your one game shows that. First your one game doesn't show that and that approach to playing scum would be the dumbest long term play on this site.

[GGG]

@GGG
No, I never claimed to always play as I did in 415, that's why this has little to do with meta, I claim that the meta you just said to have done on me cannot yield the results you imply and thus you are lying.

I don't see why you would as town, so my conclusion is you are trying to misrep me here as mafia because painting me scum is a way to discredit the push on you.

Why would I lie about my meta read on you if I am scum when anyone can go check. It's just dumb.

You stopped tunnelling lia in that game. You evaluated logically information and choose the conclusions that most helped your position. This is no different then here.

[GGG]

Also

VOTE: copper

[GGG]

@GGG
You are likely counting on most of town being too lazy to do their homework. Let's see what TTH has to say about it.

Isn't that exactly what you're doing with your self meta defense.

[GGG]

For those who played with him, does GGG OMGUS a lot as town?

I don't have much for finished games here just the one scum and town game. House played my scum game which was OMGUS free. I would say I generally don't OMGUS at all in fact I am more suspicious when people town read me. This game being an exception as the entire game has been outside how I normally play. This is likely because it's my first replace in. And I started out being heavily scumread which is unusual for me.

[GGG]

I believe that post to be genuine.

Though replacing out when on the block should not be permitted.

[GGG]

Idiotking L-1

Wait for a role claim from the replacement.

I'm happy to unvote depending on what is said.

Why are you pushing for a role claim when no intent has been declared.

[GGG]

pretty obvious, 1 vote away from death, another game on here I was in they never even got to claim their role before someone took them down.

If you're worried about that then you shouldn't have them at l1 an get a second person with you to form intent. But unless there is a lynch ready no one should claim pre maturely

[GGG]

I believe that post to be genuine.

Oh yeah, why?

Because the gambit made no sense and he's been talking replace out on day one well before he was a suspect.

[GGG]

So I think idiot kings wagon is town driven.

The choice for scum and town yesterday was between me and idiot king. That leaves texcat, me, and copper.

Can we lynch texcat today

VOTE: texcat

[GGG]

So I think idiot kings wagon is town driven.

The choice for scum and town yesterday was between me and idiot king. That leaves texcat, me, and copper.

Can we lynch texcat today

VOTE: texcat

Why is it likely to be town driven? You know something we don't know? Maybe you don't want us looking at the wagon info?

It relies on me being town, why are scum driving a second townie wagon.

[GGG]

@copper

Why didn't you protect boo kitty if you were drumming specifically to her. Could you also explain how boo kitty would have been able to pick up your crumbs and validate them.

@Arcy. Who did you protect last night and why?

[GGG]

I don't see why copper scum claims today.

They have an easy lynch in me or texcat to take to Lylo, leave Arcy alive again, then claim at Lylo. You could even bring up how our second doc shouldn't claim until later as if he gets night killed it implicates Acry and as the number of people drop the probability of saving someone increases.

Also scum is kicking our ass this game right now so why take a risk. You lynch me today kill Arcy at night and you have 3 shots at Lylo. That improves your odds of victory. Even if this gambit played out perfectly the end result is a 5 person Lylo.

Scum claiming copper is a bad play and does not make sense

[GGG]

@copper

Why didn't you protect boo kitty if you were drumming specifically to her. Could you also explain how boo kitty would have been able to pick up your crumbs and validate them.

@Arcy. Who did you protect last night and why?

I protected TTH again. I think TTH's analysis has been some of the best stuff brought to this game, even if we never found scum before now. She provides a unique perspective that I think is very important for town, especially in a game where the town seems to be struggling for leads.

If this is the case why did you kill Anen last night instead of TTH.

[GGG]

@GGG
I was trying to protect the player I thought had the best shot at being cop and based on D1 play I thought it was Aneninen.

Boo being alive would certainly be a plus but not as important, I also thought she wasn't a PR because of her efforts to give reads and defend players, so it seemed unlikely she would be targeted.

Being in the other game with me and with that discussion about PR's fresh in her mind, I would have first started to hint at my role and if she picked up on it she would have probably backed me up when I claimed later during the day, maybe getting some more associative reads on the scumteam as well.

Why not protect Anen again last night

[GGG]

@GGG
Because after the cop died my job became trying to save the townie that was most likely going to be targeted by scum to get a save and a confirmed and after going over her ISO to make sure she was town during the night I thought TTH would most likely be targeted, I thought about switching to someone less likely in case of a medic dodge but keeping her alive if she is town seemed valuable per se and I did not want to outguess myself especially after completely missing the mark with the Boo N1 kill, if scum went after her.

How do you know I did not target Aneninen twice by the way?

I was going to say because he died, then realized the whole macho thing.

[GGG]

Even if they planned on sacrificing copper to get to 5 player LYLO, they would still need to get the additional mislynch to win. Is anyone in a better position than

copper

to do that? I don't think so.

I don't know. Maybe copper is the only one that could sell the CC. But I definitely think taking an assured 2 shots at LyLo over no assurance is the play as scum, so it isn't as ridiculous as people seem to think it is.

I don't see how people aren't getting that an assured 2-shot LyLo (with any 2 half-decent scum) seems so much better than the alternatives. And concerning the level of play of the other scum, copper is the only one that "crumbed", so he is the only choice for the fake-CC, and the other two haven't been caught by now, so they must not be that bad. You are acting like the scum-team is copper + 2 people unable to play a decent game. Winning a 2-shot LyLo isn't exactly rocket science.

How is it assured. There is a risk that the counterclaim is not believed as we are seeing right now. So it's possible the net result is just a dead scum. It's a bad play.

[GGG]

I still don't think it's a bad play. I think there was a

very

high chance of it working out, especially since the only thing keeping me in better standing with town this game than copper was my claim. I think it's the right play as scum, but luckily for us, I think it's going to turn out badly for them.

How is it going to work out badly for them. Your position is copper is scum. I think that if we all voted now outside of c/a you are going down.

[GGG]

@Copper
You actually played this pretty well for the most part, but I think you got a little greedy today. You could have played it a little more conservative and probably convinced the town a little better, but instead you tried to misrepresent me and catch me on technicalities that don't actually mean anything, which are just cheap plays. I'm actually a little bummed that you resorted to that, because you had played really well up until now.

Going with a copper / texcat / ??? Scum team why wouldn't the question mark guy post the counter claim. Outside of me, the easy mislynch, I think no one has been scum reading copper (correct me if I'm wrong) so why would a highly town read person do this gambit when the outcome is losing your town read person.

[GGG]

Can we do a straw vote of where people stand.

Currently I would

vote acrynon. (Intentionally not an official vote)

[GGG]

Copper and Arcy. - since you guys are both dying if you are town can you provide as in depth set of reads as you can.

[GGG]

I'm ready to vote unless people want to discuss further

[GGG]

Essentially one of Arcy and copper are scum

[GGG]

Could you identify these mis reps for us.

[GGG]

Thanks for that,

The only one that jumped out to me during my initial read was the doc / cop thing that was real reachy.

In your role description dead it explain what macho meant?

[GGG]

Copper what did your role description in regards to being macho

[GGG]

VOTE: Rudy
No, but you're scum for trying to lynch a claimed PR (which would make the cop macho if he's telling the truth).

As an aside I want to add this to my ISO for tmw.

[GGG]

We are probably going to end up losing this game, because 90% of this town is sheep that follow people doing blatantly scummy misrepresentation, but whatever.

I'm town macho doctor

. And now I get NK'd tonight anyway, but this probably isn't a town I would want to continue with anyway. For the love of all that is good, at least look closely at C+A and Rudolph when I die. One of them is scum, and the other is either scum or terrible sheep town.

The bitterness in your about to be lynched posting here is missing from your current about to be lynched posting. Why this time are you using a positive appeal to emotion instead of just calling us idiots

[GGG]

UNVOTE:

Mathdino, your idea is bad.
As one of the Doc-s dies the Cop becomes Macho.
Plus, it's a source of WIFOM, I mean, what if the scum intentionally Nightkill someone else?

So,

Cop, other Doc, DO NOT claim!

Anenimen knew the cop/doc mechanics.

[GGG]

Ahh.

Huh.

Yeah Mathdino/myself thought the same thing earlier until someone pointed out that the cop becomes macho when one doc dies, so it doesn't work.

Arcy did not know the mechanics hence he excludes it from his role description

[GGG]

The only issue is that it assumes that you're telling the truth with your claim. Did you breadcrumb at all?

Edit: Oh damn never mind. SORRY FORGOT SETUP

No, I didn't crumb. And I didn't realize that happened to the cop. I only read my role, so I figured it would say it there. But I suppose it is set up that way to avoid this scenario.

He does cover for the potential slip two post later

[GGG]

Never mind all of the role pms are as per the wiki

Town Macho Doctor
Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Macho Doctor.
Abilities:
Each night phase, you may attempt protect one player in the game from being nightkilled. If you target the same player as the other macho doctor, both of your protectiosn will fail.
Any protection targeting you will fail.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

Neither slipped up.

[GGG]

VOTE: arcyron

Sorry if I'm wrong here.

The nice thing here if you reread the run up to lynch it seems pretty clear that copper and MD are a scum team or Texcat and acryon are a scum team.

[GGG]

That's L-2

[GGG]

VOTE: arcyron

Sorry if I'm wrong here.

The nice thing here if you reread the run up to lynch it seems pretty clear that copper and MD are a scum team or Texcat and acryon are a scum team.

Re-read GGG. Come on. I get that at least 2 other people are going to be agreeing with copper and voting me, but it shouldn't be more than that. Open your eyes town.

To me this seals it. You honestly believe there is no case for a townie voting for you.

[GGG]

Seriously please people. Look at copper's play today compared to other days. It's like he is a different person. Today is all cheap tactics and pedantry, because he has no other option.

It doesn't make sense copper would be the toughest lynch of anyone here. Why would scum give him up so easily.

[GGG]

VOTE: unvote. I don't like coppers naming of the scum team need more time to think.

[GGG]

VOTE: copper

Copper is the scummier player overall. (Sorry about the combias)

Also as copper posted above the Arcy scum wagon is pretty obvious so if we end up in 5p Lylo texcat gets lynched. We get to 3p Lylo and figure the last one out. Coppers ISO is much cleaner with associations. So if he his scum, he is playing this gambit because the rest are well well hidden. So in the end the downside risk of lynching copper is lower.

[GGG]

My scumread is voting my scumread... <.<

I'm the easy mis-lynch

[GGG]

GGG, what made you switch? You were voting Acryon and now Copper is suddenly scummier overall?

I'm going down a gut read, combiasy rabbit hole but here it is

Initially I was looking at it from if this gambit makes sense for scum. I still think it isn't optimal scum play for copper. I was scum reading copper yesterday for his too logical play as well. And I have town read Arcy from the start.

Then I started the role fishing digging through the Iso's and I found something I didn't like. It was MathDino pushing Rudy after he wanted to lynch the doctor. This never really made sense from a town standpoint. Then I looked at the idiot king lynch. TTH and I looked at my wagon and found IK to be the most suspicious. This led to the IK gambit and intent to hammer lie that Matt Dino again pushed. Then today TTH and math Dino start the whole bond level villan stuff defending copper. Then I had a look at my 1 scum on each wagon thing that Matt Dino got pissed about and wouldn't you know TTH, MD and Copper are all on separate wagons.

Then I decided the above was all stupid and this gambit still doesn't make sense and voted Arcy. But when copper made his drunk post it was just a little too much of a push like he is eager for his gambit to work. But he is right that a texcat, C/A scum team is the obvious choice and on the other side trying to get TTH lynched at Lylo with her universal town read would be real difficult.

Anyway, I have been pretty poor this game but a TTH, MD, Copper scum team is what seems to make sense

[GGG]

What do you think of the theory?

[GGG]

I am scum with TTH? I'd say you are out of your mind, but more likely scum yourself.

So what GGG likely did here was appear to actively support my claim and the benefits he got are:

- He created the impression that people were behind me because scum can't really avoid showing their association with Acryon here and save him at the same time.

- He waited for 2 people to commit to the Acryon wagon, I suspect Texcat may be the dupe for that crap about lynching her at lylo, (if so wtf are you doing Texcat?) before switching back over.

- He just blew some of my credibility because after the support I got from him I had to think he was town.

The idea is pretty solid but the execution was pretty poor if that's what he is doing:

- Not having anyone strongly supporting me like on the Acryon side he has to make up my scumbuddies with what he has and this means saying TTH and I are scum together, how the fuck does that make any sense, and my other partner is the guy on LA, yes very credible.

- But the key point here is the switch back he made, I think there's a clear mistake he made there. He uses my naming of the scumteam for

both

scumreading me and for saying why I'm a better lynch if I am town later, again how does that make any sense.

I also think he found a certain amount of gusto into throwing back at me the mental adaptation about his play I had to make in order to town read him, that he was confbiasing yesterday. Now he is using it himself to justify this horror show, but apparently yesterday he was the most confbiased free player on the planet if you read our meta interaction, for the final time, how does that make any sense?

Finally notice the panic his switch is creating on the Acryon supporters side, that reads very much like: hey what are you doing here, you were supposed to stay away. I was asking myself why both on my and Acryon's list GGG is given a townread, and this is likely why.

So you are reverse OMGUSing me. You only town read me because I town read you. That's crap logic.

Where you get this idea that I have ever said I am free from combias. I know I suffer from it. When I was scum reading math Dino on day 2 I blatently stated i was combiased. Why the misrep, you did this at the end of the day yesterday around IKs death bed plee.

How does my play here make sense if I am scum. Essentially by flip flopping I put a big bullseye on my back. If I was scum bussing Arcy, the right move was to shut up and get the town cred that the dead town doctor copper gave me. Push the not scum out of texcat and c/a tomorrow and then go into 5 man Lylo in great shape. Flip flopping like I did would have undone all the work you are saying I put in today.

I might be wrong with my theory, but what I'm doing certainly isn't scum motivated.

Your terrible logic on my motivation here seals my read.

[GGG]

So, to summarize.
You don't like copper theorizing about scumteams.
And you then proceeded to theorize about a scumteam.

I didn't like that copper is trying to give that one little extra push to get everyone to vote Arcy. He overplayed it. All he had to do was wait but then he posts the one little extra thing that's supposed to make everyone think this all makes sense the scum team is right here.

[GGG]

If this is such an impossible play for scum to do, doesn't that kind of make it the

perfect

play to do as scum? It's insane to me that people are ignoring this angle and possibility.

This is terrible. Im almost switching back.

[GGG]

Your only at L-2

[GGG]

Wait for Dino to post and for C+A to commit before putting Acryon in hammer range.

Waiting on little old me?

VOTE: copper

Die, scum.

Nothing you have seen in copper v Arcy has made you reconsider anything.

[GGG]

Of course it did, but just because I'm rethinking matters doesn't mean I'm going to automatically change my mind.

I'm happy with my intial read of the situation, and you... I think you're distancing from copper to eat up town cred when acryon flips town because it's looking like he's the likely lynch.

If you think he's flipping town why afe you voting with him.

[GGG]

Also C/A your combiased as he'll against me right now. I could have just voted Arcy, flip flopped or just voted copper and either Arcy or copper could have flipped scum and you'd have found a way to find it scummy.

[GGG]

We actually should give them both time to post any thoughts as one is scum and the other gets night killed.

[GGG]

Ollies replacement becomes the swing vote

[GGG]

There thoughts on others in the game not on the arcy copper choice.

[GGG]

@mod - how is the Ollie replacement coming?

[GGG]

Im switching back.

VOTE: arcy

Coppers scummier overall but the timing doesnt make sense. Flipflop number 2

[GGG]

Thats also L1

[GGG]

Everyone should probably give their reads list out because if I get lynched, somebody that isn't copper is dying tonight.

Or you are trying pick the best kill.

The one I think based on today's play is scummy is MathDino. Came out early with a read then didn't engage after that.

C/A outside of me trying to get caught as scum I don't see any motivation for my play today from a scum standpoint. I suppose if copper is scum I could have done the straw poll, see where the votes were at, then vote my buddy, wait long enough to build some cred and the flop back without endangering the mislynch but if I was doing that I would have just not voted Arcy as the first flip would have brought unwanted attention.

If Arcy is scum and I'm scum I think sitting on the copper would have been the right choice and hope the replacement lynches copper. So at least the second flip flop would make no sense.

So the only scum case on me that makes sense would be intentionally bad play going for to scum it's town cred.

[GGG]

So the key thing to decide today is which doctor claim to believe.

Arcy claims doctor in post 510 page 20. Starting about page 16 is the original Arcy case.

Night 1 our cop dies
Night 2 our 2nd doctor dies
Day 3 early copper counter claims last remaining doc claiming he crumbed things boo kitty the dead cop would pick up.

[GGG]

If Arcy is scum and I'm scum I think sitting on the copper would have been the right choice and hope the replacement lynches copper. So at least the second flip flop would make no sense.

Except Acryon isn't scum, which you're conveniently leaving out in your self-analysis.

Why is that?

Read three lines above where I say if copper is scum.

[GGG]

I believe Mastin to be scum. MathDinos slot was scummy.

He essentially ignored the entire Arcy/Copper day.
Buddied TTH throughout.
Blew up over my terrible 1 on each wagon case day 2 (scum caught for wrong reason)

We have DGB, TexCat, Mastin, Me, House.

Would house or texcat get in early on the copper train for town cred to let us lynch Arcy. I don't think so but given copper counter claim was pretty ballsy I don't want to rule out tex and House by default.

[GGG]

That, plus if the kills are as random as textcat is saying they are, then randomness = DGB's style, her alignment regardless. But weird kills certainly fit her modus operandi.

I'm not exactly sure how long DGB has been in that slot, but I don't think she was here on N1 when scum left the claimed doc alive.

The claim doc alive was clearly copper as he had his fake crumbs planted early

[GGG]

^ I mean clearly coppers strategy.

[GGG]

I believe Mastin to be scum. MathDinos slot was scummy.

He essentially ignored the entire Arcy/Copper day.
Buddied TTH throughout.
Blew up over my terrible 1 on each wagon case day 2 (scum caught for wrong reason)

We have DGB, TexCat, Mastin, Me, House.

Would house or texcat get in early on the copper train for town cred to let us lynch Arcy. I don't think so but given copper counter claim was pretty ballsy I don't want to rule out tex and House by default.

Want to give us a case on Math?

Like a fully quoted up case. Maybe I will have time for a small one tonight. The gist is above.

[GGG]

What else other than tunnelling Arcy yesterday makes DGB scummy

[GGG]

Also Matts push on idiot king for a lie that didn't really exist

[GGG]

WOW

C&A is scum.

Because there is no way in hell that copper is scum. Voting copper is a scum confession.

That player slot is total scum is cutting its losses.

You're on crack.

Hey that's my line

You're still scum

Why wait? You have plenty of time. Give your perspective and we can lynch you right away.

We might just have to forgo your scum insight, then.

Here is the DGB house interaction.

If copper was willing to claim they were playing pretty aggressive scum. In that case I think it's more likely to put a vote on each wagon. Now house votes early meaning time will show us that at least one of them is scum.

[GGG]

Also Matts push on idiot king for a lie that didn't really exist

Care to clarify?

Idiot king stated that he didn't know what intent to hammer meant and MD pushed that as a lie and a reason to lynch him independant of how he got on to my wagon.

[GGG]

vote:dgb

[GGG]

UNVOTE:

Whoa... 2 votes on this early in MyLo is reckless.

Funny house, one is just as wreck less. You just voted your scum buddy and got caught.

[GGG]

You can't say that 1 vote is safe when scum will have agreed upon a quick hammer time last night in the Scum pt.

[GGG]

Sure was but with a dgb/house cross vote occurring at least one of them is scum or the town has lost. So it becomes just picking between them.

[GGG]

I'm going Mastin, DGB. Especially the whole if you weren't scum and I was you'd be dead.

My play this game has been erratic, unsure, flip floppy, non committal etc. which is nothing like my scum games where I have strong reads and in control of the narrative. Basically I'm town because I suck at being town

[GGG]

GGG for sure. DGB, I kinda am/was due to yesterDay's shenanigans... but maybe she really is just that bad?
I can't picture them being scum together unless GGG knew I'd get paranoid and unvote.

I do agree on GGG being really,

really

obviously scum, here, but DGB is

NOT

"that bad". She's one of the best players on the site as both alignments as far as I'm concerned. So if she seems "that bad", scum.

I think GGG was just bussing.

Bussing makes no sense there though, it was still early and build a C/A scum case would have been much less dangerous. Kind of like your doing on me instead of bussing DGB.

[GGG]

What else other than tunnelling Arcy yesterday makes DGB scummy

vote:dgb

What was said between these two posts that made you decide to vote DGB?

You guys voted eachother.

At that point it's pick between the two people because as soon as designated vote time comes in the game ends. And as much as I dislike your playstyle you are less scummy than dgb

[GGG]

Im annoyed at myself.

I had copper as scum in the gambit based on his actual play and switched based on occam. I had mastin at lylo as my strongest read and went dgb.

Sorry guys. Well played copper.

I had difficulties in this game as usually as town or scum im town read and that didnt happen this game as scum picked me as a lynch target. Learned a lot. Should stick to my gut and quit over thinking games.

[GGG]

Also house good play overall.