Open 566: Murder on the Oriental Express (Game Over)

[Riddleton]

What part of that is 'over the top'? You've just quoted a bunch of my posts.

[Riddleton]

You should all vote CKD, trust me on this. For one, we're not leaving him to LyLo (easy mislynch) and for two, he's the most likely scum contender.

It's not worthwhile to think about who else you think is scum at this stage. Don't worry about it. Don't forget, if CKD flips town, 2 more people as well as CKD will die before LyLo so additional time spent quabbling about whether you think Farside, CDB etc is scum is wasted.

a) If you think CDB is scum, vote CKD
b) If you think GC is scum, vote CKD
c) If you think Farside is scum, vote CKD
d) If you think I am scum, vote CKD
e) If you think Titus is scum, vote CKD
f) If you think CKD is scum, vote CKD

[Riddleton]

With Riddleton not willing to vote my conftowns and me not willing to, they are in zero danger of getting lynched. Yet Riddleton over defends.

I'm helping others get onto the right track.

[Riddleton]

When CKD flips town, Riddleton fakes a reset and just votes whoever is most suspicious to the group. It is so badly telegraphed.

Are you implying I'll just quickly derpvote on LyLo? Really?

[Riddleton]

Let's theorize for a moment. We both know scum bus. How often do you see scum defend not just one but both buddies

Once, and it was a similar situation. An experienced player as scum gambiting the whole "oh god my reads suck" stance.

I will concede it's rare though, as you're right in that scum bus most of the time.

[Riddleton]

Riddleton has not provided analysis. Saying xyz is town is not analysis. Buddying is not analysis.

Are you dense?

[Riddleton]

Let's theorize for a moment. We both know scum bus. How often do you see scum defend not just one but both buddies

Once, and it was a similar situation. An experienced player as scum gambiting the whole "oh god my reads suck" stance.

I will concede it's rare though, as you're right in that scum bus most of the time.

Defending both scum is a hallmark of scum Titus.

This is completely 100% false.

[Riddleton]

I think GC is scummy, too, but would prefer a CKD lynch. I think I said in earlier posts if you have CKD as a scum suspect, even if not the #1 choice, we should lynch him today so he isn't a liability in LyLo.

CKD's push on GC is quite bad even though I do suspect GC myself. I've never used magic 'phrases' in my scumplay but not in my townplay. He's trying to make a case out of thin air and see if it sticks.

[Riddleton]

Farside, hammer please

[Riddleton]

Thanks CKD. I just hope I can rely on someone to vote, like, GC or Titus in LyLo.

[Riddleton]

LyLos are fun in mafia, I think though. It's kind of like the nail-biting finale to a good book or film. You've come so far, you've met many aquaintences and enemies alike, and all your work so far rests on one final encounter. Will you survive victorious or ultimately fall at the last hurdle?

[Riddleton]

If he's scum, he's literally relying solely upon WIFOM to stop his lynch.

There's at least one more likely candidate for today - myself - that he could probably convince at least Titus to join over Riddle, to add to his and farside's votes.

Well, yeah, that's what I've been saying with CKD pulling the hardcore "please don't lynch me" stuff.

Like, it's a pretty bad scum strategy.

We had a discussion earlier about scum play, that I recall. Just because action XYZ isn't

optimal

scum behaviour doesn't mean it;s

impossible

scum behaviour.

The last time I witnessed scum do this, it was a similar situation. It was a scum win because he managed to WiFOM himself out of a lynch like CKD is doing.

[Riddleton]

Riddle if you do end up

being scum, well played.

Thanks CKD

. I just hope I can rely on someone to vote, like, GC or Titus in LyLo.

also, if this ends up being a stupid slip, I might just quit for good.

lol, it was a joke.

[Riddleton]

The last time I witnessed scum do this, it was a similar situation. It was a scum win because he managed to WiFOM himself out of a lynch like CKD is doing.

and since I havent been hammered yet. for shits and giggles, provide that game link that is giving you that point of reference.

Sorry, not going to do that. I don't want to provide my off-site games.

[Riddleton]

unvote.

What happened to this 'I'm a threat in LyLo' stance?

[Riddleton]

The last time I witnessed scum do this, it was a similar situation. It was a scum win because he managed to WiFOM himself out of a lynch like CKD is doing.

and since I havent been hammered yet. for shits and giggles, provide that game link that is giving you that point of reference.

Sorry, not going to do that. I don't want to provide my off-site games.

thats convenient. why?

Because I don't want to.

[Riddleton]

unvote.

What happened to this 'I'm a threat in LyLo' stance?

are you against titus and CDB contributing before I go?

No. But Farside and/or Titus arenn't going to hammer before they contribute their thoughts. Surely, you know that too.

[Riddleton]

didnt say anything about farside...and you can speak for titus now? how about you hang on for bit there. also dont bully me, clearly I didnt have an issue being at -1...but lets get some more info out there first. you so confident on your reads on everyone?

Yeah, I'm pretty confident I'd say. It's either you or GC. I'd be utterly flabbergasted if it was anyone else. There's like a small outside chance it could be farside or titus (probably like 0.1%) and close to 0% chance it's CDB.

[Riddleton]

you dont say. man you must be feeling confident on your position in this game. so we are to take your word on this then?

Yes, you're meant to take my word for it.

I'm not providing off-site meta because I don't want it to be used against me in a scum game in the future. I like this anonymity; not many people know whom I am, even fewer still know how I play.

[Riddleton]

Sorry.. work has been bitchy.

We are still lynching Riddleton or GC.

Not today.

[Riddleton]

You should all vote CKD, trust me on this. For one, we're not leaving him to LyLo (easy mislynch) and for two, he's the most likely scum contender.

It's not worthwhile to think about who else you think is scum at this stage. Don't worry about it. Don't forget, if CKD flips town, 2 more people as well as CKD will die before LyLo so additional time spent quabbling about whether you think Farside, CDB etc is scum is wasted.

a) If you think CDB is scum, vote CKD
b) If you think GC is scum, vote CKD
c) If you think Farside is scum, vote CKD
d) If you think I am scum, vote CKD
e) If you think Titus is scum, vote CKD
f) If you think CKD is scum, vote CKD

[Riddleton]

if I flip town, you provide everyone that link were you witnessed a situation you are referencing here, so people know that you are not lying.

No. I'm not providing it to anyone. No ifs or buts. See here for why. If you want to think I'm lying about my off-site meta, then whatever floats you boat I suppose. I've no intention of 'proving' this.

[Riddleton]

(Insert Riddleton backpedal post here?)

(insert CKD's "boo hoo I can't see Riddle's offsite meta. " post here)

[Riddleton]

Yeah, same username.

[Riddleton]

I see CKD isn't getting much traction. I suppose I'll compromise.

Sigh. Farside is correct now that I see it. The interest in the CKD wagon seems artificial.

VOTE: GC

[Riddleton]

You suspect everyone.

Yeah, that's what i think you did.

[Riddleton]

You're right, sorry. Scum never bus their budies!

I've made cases on scumbuddies before. What's your point?

[Riddleton]

It's "more possible", and I think that's the deciding factor for me in this stage of the game.

[Riddleton]

It's not anti-win condition at all. There are cases where this is a plausible scum move, such as an inexperienced buddy you wish to bus (ie. scrambles) and make a huge case on so you can get towncred and live onwards.

[Riddleton]

If you knew the gamestate pointed to your buddy being pinned later on in the day, you figure you may as well be the one to break the news

[Riddleton]

If you knew the gamestate pointed to your buddy being pinned later on in the day, you figure you may as well be the one to break the news

Are you saying this was the gamestate?

Possibly. Scum are more aware of what's happening in the game than the town are.

If, hypothetically, you had knowledge that scrambles easily broke under pressure as he did in D3, you knew he would be pinned and caught at some point. Ticking time bomb.

[Riddleton]

I think you are scum for my case. The bussing does fit in as scum motivation:

Green Crayons

Sorry if this becomes wall-y. Two main issues with GC:

1) The scrambles vote in #1060 is strange. I think that he made the case & post in the right time where scrambles wasn't under much suspicion, so that the wagon won't take off much. And he's right -- it didn't. The main thing that fuelled the wagon was scramble's defensc and lies about his experience & his meta of 'not talking to scumreads', and finally his comment about how he groups scum with doctor. I'm also speculating that GC, despite his wall post being 100% correct, specifically made the post incredibly long and drawn out as if to discourage people from reading the whole thing. That's my paranoia speaking, though.

a) He aggressively pushes Scrambles for most of the way there -- saying that his defence of 'WiFOM' isn't accurate, among other things -- until he just decides to abruptly stop once Scrambles pushes out these weak defence posts that don't actually mean anything. The way I see it, GC's suspicion of Scrambles rises and rises, so I don't understand what's so special about scrambles' posts that makes GC just step down from all suspicion and unvote in this post. The transition is awkward and feels forced. Most of Scrambles' responses were talks of his own meta as scum, and lies about experience and playstyle of 'not responding to scumreads' that were all quickly unearthed. What part of these responses did you 'Like' in that post enough to unvote him?

b) His further interaction is more awkward, still. We see GC ask me why I don't like his responses, despite me saying so in the exact same post. I assume he then realises in #1445 his unvote starts to look bad w/r/t how bad Scrambles' defence was. From here, GC's push of Scrambles starts again. Just out of nowhere, at Scrambles questioning whether my comment on him is valid on this post. Long story short, these spasmodic pushes on Scrambles result in a revote on him, followed by an unvote, and finally we see GC finally stick to Scrambles here, with his last justification on the vote being that he trusts my judgement.

Conclusion is that I think GC's push and posts on Scrambles were awkward. We see unusual interaction with this slot, as GC quickly changes his mind time-after-time again depending on whether the gamestate is pushing for scrambles lynch, or a mislynch on someone like CDB. In a nutshell, the original justification of the unvote on Scrambles is what I don't like the most, as it seems very strange that an experienced player would believe that an emotional, ab hominem type-defence is town. I just don't buy that after all your pushing, you think Scrambles is just 'Frustrated town' in this post, seemingly to undermine all your effort in bussing your buddy until now.

---

2) Day 4's play is very different. Late day 3, we see justification of how he trusts my judgement. Perhaps because that he's the only scum left, and sheeping me on pushes on CKD for instance won't draw any attention to himself. I theorise that he will use my push at Scrambles as an excuse to set himself up to follow onto a CKD wagon. We get another post from him on here that despite him disagreeing with my case earlier, he's happy with it now and 'gives it more credit'. All of a sudden, GC is more malleable because of how I was correct with Scrambles. That doesn't make much sense to me, and reads as scum trying to jump onto a wagon without too much responsibility for it afterwards.

a) In this post, we see he's looking at CKD and then Amy (I was, too, for CKD), and then comments about how the no majority isn't no lynch in this game. That's fine, because it's an impression I, and pretty much anyone was under as it's the norm here. What bugs me is it seems this is an excuse later on in the next post to say it's CKD and then Farside and then amy. From this point, I think we see a notable change in stance over CKD, and he's preparing himself up for an easy wagon on farside or amy later on. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but I don't like how this change of stance comes at a similar time to when I start to feel less confident about CKD, also.

b) I don't like the farside case that stems out of this, as I've discussed earlier. I don't think V/LA is scummy, and I don't think it's unusual that a reasonable portion of her ISO is catch-up posts. You say in #1777 you're not willing to do a meta argument for Farside, but yet in #1781 you do just that, as I more openly explain my suspicions on your slot. Why is that?.

Royal Ape

1) #141 really just says absolutely nothing. Does nothing but point out the obvious by saying "I prefer real reasoning, and not arbitrary reasoning". Gives the impression of 'activity' but accomplishes nothing; so I don't like seemingly obvious/vague posts like this.

2) #144 and #145 are really on-the-fence regarding Skelda. This is the first time we see RoyalApe fence-sitting, and he does this a lot. He claims here that "Skelda's towntell on NJ wasn't valid, ergo scummy", but later says in the next post "But the rest of his ISO is good. He's null!". Following up on this, I find it strange how he talks about saying "I've no reads/no idea" is null-scum behaviour, but he does this himself in #158.

3) Speaking of the above, RoyalApe's play is very cautious, similar to that I'd expect of newbie scum. An example of this is how scarce RoyalApe is with his voting; he fence-sits a lot and says people "might be scummy", but actually only votes for Skelda (not counting RVS votes) in 32 posts from #73 to #748. Acryon's criticism of his play in this post is valid, and RoyalApe dismisses it as 'Oh, cool that's a neat term I'm not familiar with', not responding to any accusations.

4) #189 is basically "Whoooooppps, I'm still on my RVS vote, but I don't want to admit that". I don't like how, if he was scum, casually unvotes his buddy saying "I think he's town". I should point out it's common scum behaviour to vote their buddies in RVS. It doesn't get much suspicion from other townies, as the 'interactions' between them can be faked. In this post, we also see RA categorise people as either 'townie ISOs' or 'Null ISOs for lack of content'. Why did he forget to mention his buddy, Beli in this list? Beli's content was questionable and a big heap of WiFOM. Why is that not 'Null' or 'Scummy' by his definitions?

5) Attacks NJ's reasoning for voting for RA in #202 as 'Silly' and 'We're not in RVS anymore'. Gives a justification that 'XYZ reason is great, but your reason is crap, I don't accept your vote', which doesn't sit well with me at all. RoyalApe later backs down from this stance, after NJ questioned him, by saying "I didn't think it was exactly scummy, per se....", starting again with the defensive play.

6) Starts a useless line of interrogation with Amy in #204, midly suggesting that 'Counting votes yourself is scummy'. When Skelda questions this, RoyalApe responds in #214, with another very defensive post, saying that 'It's not useless until we find out', which reads as sort of desperate to me. My theory is that RoyalApe is trying to pursue Amy of Beli onto a mislynch like Skelda (which he does later). At least with CKD, it's that he thinks Beli was town, and not dragging all votes away from the slot.

7) Basically fence-sits the way through with Beli, questioning others reads with him in posts like #317, but not actually having a solid opinion on him. Never once in his ISO does he state he thinks Beli to be town or scum. Tries to divert focus away from Beli in this post saying we should be focusing on 'EVERYONE!' and not just two suspects, which reads as desperate scum trying to get attention away from his buddy.

[Riddleton]

lol

I have super powers as scum under your theory about this "possible" gamestate of scrambles somehow getting suspicion on him at a point later in the day that I replaced in, and about scrambles playstyle (even though I think there was this huge discussion in this game about him not having many games on mafiascum?).


Okay, Riddle.

I'm not saying you foresaw the future, I'm saying you could have spotted that he broke under pressure elsewhere.

For example a typical conversatino in a QT:
GC: "Hey! Scrambles! Hey Beli"
Beli: "Philoxene, ut GreenCrayons!"
Scrambles: "Hey, I'm still a little new at this.. sorry if I make newbie mistakes"

[Riddleton]

ie. You knew he was new, you knew he hadn't done many games, you knew he got a little flustered when talking about experience. Hence you knew he would be caught. That's the ticking time bomb thing you caught onto.

[Riddleton]

If you knew the gamestate pointed to your buddy being pinned later on in the day, you figure you may as well be the one to break the news

Are you saying this was the gamestate?

Possibly. Scum are more aware of what's happening in the game than the town are.

If, hypothetically, you had knowledge that scrambles easily broke under pressure as he did in D3, you knew he would be pinned and caught at some point. Ticking time bomb.

why is GC guilty of this and not farside?

Farside didn't write a huge case on Scrambles

[Riddleton]

It's called www.

whoops gotta go

[Riddleton]

I'm not telling you. for the fourth (?) time.

[Riddleton]

riddleton,

what about this?

it feels like GC left the CDB wagon at a pretty pivotal point.

Vote Count 3.11

Titus: (2) acryon, scrambles
acryon: (1) Farside22
ChannelDelibird: (3) Curiouskarmadog , Kalimar, Amy Farrah Fowler

(L-2)

scrambles: (4) Titus, Riddleton, ChannelDelibird, Green Crayons

Not Voting:

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-10-18 20:47:00)

Mod Notes:
None

[/area]

I agree with that analaysis

[Riddleton]

I'm not showing you the other site (nor to anyone) as I don't want my off-site meta to be shown.

You're more than welcome to check my MS games out, however:

Scumgames:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=58899
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=58599

Towngames:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=58778
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=59430

[Riddleton]

Regarding "I am doing X because I have seen Y happen"; I don't think I've mentioned my off-site meta (beyond the brief 'oh yeah I've played offsite') in any other games. Tellling you what I saw doesn't expose my play; showing you the games I've played off-site DOES as one can simply just view the rest of my games by clicking on the mafia forum. I don't want that. I like having some form of relative anonymity on MS while I'm still considered 'new'. It's almost like using an alt account, except I'm not.

[Riddleton]

I'm surprised you haven't seen that. I've played roughly 24 games since 2011 and I've seen it myself so I don't think it's all that uncommon.

I'm willing to bet I can dig out similar games on MS with such a situation happening.

[Riddleton]

No one's willing to join me on CKD. Thus, my options are stay on CKD and be a stubborn person; or compromise. You even awknowledged this stance yourself with Farside/Amy yesterday.

I already said that CKD and you are my main suspects. Voting CKD first is safer, yes, in the rare event both of you are town. But no one is willing to join me on it (bar GC who doesn't seem to be really buying CKD as scum which farside pointed out)

[Riddleton]

Yeah, I acknowledge all of that, and I don't find that scummy.

(Hilarious though that the line of logic you just embraced about your own vote decision making is part of why farside suspects me.)

I found you seizing upon farside's bad justification for a vote as additional justification for switching from CKD to me to be suspicious. You've already laid the non-alignment indicative groundwork for you voting either CKD or GC today. Making a last minute grab for "oh and this other stuff" as you switch your vote strikes me as attempting to preemptively - but unnecessarily - CYA.

It's not bad justification, it's whats happening in this game.

Comments like "Let's go with Riddle's intuition" etc -- certain points in this game you've acted as if you needed my go ahead to vote someone. Particularly of note is the Scrambles wavering D3 (solidifed your vote on Scrambles because you 'trust me') and the retreat from CKD to Farside D4 (which came after I presented my case on you.)

[Riddleton]

In the meantime, just going over some more recent stuff and picking out random bits to which to respond.

If, hypothetically, you had knowledge that scrambles easily broke under pressure as he did in D3

...why would he know that? GC, have you played with scrambles-scum before?

He would be able to figure that out from interactions in the thread and possibly in the QT.

[Riddleton]

How many people has he listed as scum? Do you know I have seen scum do the exact same thing not to long ago.

Oh, a meta attack without citing the previous game.

Quick, Riddle, get in here and make sure to be as critical of this meta attack on me as you were of my "meta" attack on farside!

(insert critical non-approving post here)

[Riddleton]

I'll be doing some analysis tonight so stay tuned for that.

[Riddleton]

farside

, you have one scumread correct, in GC? Whom would you think is scum should GC hypothetically flip town?

[Riddleton]

Hey

CDB

, I noticed this and I want you to clarify:

Most questions are about farside, though, really. Again, will definitely be rereading around those things but, combined with the stuff I raised last night, this is starting to feel like something I want to explore.

I definitely want the farside-v-GC argument to go the fuck away because it's obnoxiously loud and long, and right now I'm definitely inclined to want farside gone first.

This seems to imply you see the final scum in the farside vs GC argument, correct? That it's not just town vs town noise?

[Riddleton]

CDB

, so was your lynch order in a later post ("Farside > Riddle > GC > CKD > Titus") a typo considering you think the likely final scum is in the GC vs farside interactions?

---

Anyway, I need to rethink about the game. I'm not so sure of the gamestate as I initially thought.

[Riddleton]

You should vote GC

[Riddleton]

Can I gloat about how wrong you are before the farside flip?

[Riddleton]

awww

[Riddleton]

Darn, you caught me!

[Riddleton]

I don't want a titus replacement

[Riddleton]

I don't want a deadline extension, I want a GC lynch

[Riddleton]

CDB & CKD, switch please

[Riddleton]

Yes you will, move please

[Riddleton]

someone needs to move to GC because I'm not letting this day end in a no lych

[Riddleton]

and I'm sure as hell not moving to farside today

[Riddleton]

I;'m talking abuot tied wagons (2 vs 2)

[Riddleton]

Ooh, first active vote. Gotcha

[Riddleton]

As an aside, I don't really like the majority rule in this game and will likely talk about it postgame. It loses the motivation to lynch for us. We've no reason to be as active as we do in other games and get our votes together because there's always this safety net here to help us if we miss out on the deadline.

[Riddleton]

Now town have a passive "oh, we don't have to lynch today, just have the wagon with highest votes!" thing which bothers me

[Riddleton]

I don't think farside is scum for reasons I've said before. I do think GC is scum. Let's talk about that though; why don't you see GC as likely as farside? Why is GC town from your POV?

[Riddleton]

Summerise for me when you get back.

[Riddleton]

We don't neeed to drag the day out any farther. We need to lynch GC

[Riddleton]

Yeah, presume we're back to where we were before you voted. Please do that again, without the unvote. I'm going to be really annoyed if we mislynch

farside

.

Just corrected for you

[Riddleton]

I read it and I disagree with it. I wanted your viewpoint to understand your point of view on the situation

[Riddleton]

Waiting for replacement too

[Riddleton]

Welcome, Ironwood!

Vote GC and you're good to go.

[Riddleton]

Because he's scum, obviously.

[Riddleton]

Is anyone confirmed town?

No

[Riddleton]

obligatory vote GC post

[Riddleton]

What, Riddle, no attempt to persuade Iron that CKD is totally and absolutely the last remaining scum?

Only if you flip town

[Riddleton]

CKD, want to join me on GC yet?

[Riddleton]

Uhm, that's still true. Reread my post. My main suspects are you and CKD, I'm voting you today for reasons I explained in the quoted post. Obviously if you flip town, CKD will be my main suspect

[Riddleton]

It's still uncertain why you aren't trying to convince Iron to suspect your #1 suspect.

You know, because you obstensibly ~*~ could ~*~ be dead tomorrow.

a) My #1 suspect isn't going to happen today whether I convince Iron or not. It takes 4 to lynch, and last I checked, Iron isn't a triple voter.

b) Nah, I'm goikng to be alive for LyLo. It's highly unlikely I won't be.

[Riddleton]

Well, obviously we can all agree if someone else gets lynched and is town, I'll be in LyLo to decide between GC and CKD.

By extension of that, if one of GC/CKD gets lynched today and is town, the remaining scum will have me in LyLo followed by their #1 'suspect' to convince me to switch to them -- which will probably be farside. That's just the way I see the gamestate. It's either a CKD-GC-Riddle LyLo or a CKD/GC-Riddle-probably farside LyLo.

I

[Riddleton]

In LyLo, I honestly see a Me vs GC vs CKD LyLo if we accidentally mislynch someone else, as I suspect them both.

I don't see how my logic is inconsistent. Obv, Ironwood isn't going to make it to LyLo, as he's universally townread. CDB is in a similar position. Not impossible that I'd get night killed, no, but unlikely.

[Riddleton]

Ironwood, do you not have a scumread on GC? I

really

want him to have the rope today!

[Riddleton]

I explained a possible theory in a post of mine D4

[Riddleton]

Green Crayons

Sorry if this becomes wall-y. Two main issues with GC:

1) The scrambles vote in #1060 is strange. I think that he made the case & post in the right time where scrambles wasn't under much suspicion, so that the wagon won't take off much. And he's right -- it didn't. The main thing that fuelled the wagon was scramble's defensc and lies about his experience & his meta of 'not talking to scumreads', and finally his comment about how he groups scum with doctor. I'm also speculating that GC, despite his wall post being 100% correct, specifically made the post incredibly long and drawn out as if to discourage people from reading the whole thing. That's my paranoia speaking, though.

a) He aggressively pushes Scrambles for most of the way there -- saying that his defence of 'WiFOM' isn't accurate, among other things -- until he just decides to abruptly stop once Scrambles pushes out these weak defence posts that don't actually mean anything. The way I see it, GC's suspicion of Scrambles rises and rises, so I don't understand what's so special about scrambles' posts that makes GC just step down from all suspicion and unvote in this post. The transition is awkward and feels forced. Most of Scrambles' responses were talks of his own meta as scum, and lies about experience and playstyle of 'not responding to scumreads' that were all quickly unearthed. What part of these responses did you 'Like' in that post enough to unvote him?

b) His further interaction is more awkward, still. We see GC ask me why I don't like his responses, despite me saying so in the exact same post. I assume he then realises in #1445 his unvote starts to look bad w/r/t how bad Scrambles' defence was. From here, GC's push of Scrambles starts again. Just out of nowhere, at Scrambles questioning whether my comment on him is valid on this post. Long story short, these spasmodic pushes on Scrambles result in a revote on him, followed by an unvote, and finally we see GC finally stick to Scrambles here, with his last justification on the vote being that he trusts my judgement.

Conclusion is that I think GC's push and posts on Scrambles were awkward. We see unusual interaction with this slot, as GC quickly changes his mind time-after-time again depending on whether the gamestate is pushing for scrambles lynch, or a mislynch on someone like CDB. In a nutshell, the original justification of the unvote on Scrambles is what I don't like the most, as it seems very strange that an experienced player would believe that an emotional, ab hominem type-defence is town. I just don't buy that after all your pushing, you think Scrambles is just 'Frustrated town' in this post, seemingly to undermine all your effort in bussing your buddy until now.

Hey, you. You've chopped off half of my awesome GC-is-scum case.

[Riddleton]

No, that's not my priority. It helps though, as I don't want to be in LyLo deciding between my two main suspects

[Riddleton]

GC is my #2 suspect, so I'd say I am reasonably confident in him being scum. If it isn't him, then it's CKD

[Riddleton]

Well, that's the first time I've read 1783, Riddleton. I guess you must have made it deliberately (and self-consciously) long to put me off reading it.

It's nonsense. Note that GC's post

did

convince me on scrambles rather than anything scrambles was posting at the time when I got off my arse and read, and every player expects their posts to be read so the idea that he intended for it not to be noticed doesn't tally up with how people actually think when playing this game.

That's only one tiny part of the case, if you disagree with that statement.

[Riddleton]

CDB is in a similar position. .

say what?

CDB is widely regarded as town by the majority of players.

[Riddleton]

Can I put down £100 on that bet, Farside?

[Riddleton]

farside, you're not doing a very good at concealing your scumminess at this point.

She has nothing to conceal. She's been town this entire game.

[Riddleton]

I highly doubt she is scum.

[Riddleton]

14 minutes to deadline...

[Riddleton]

Twilight WiFOM, or are you serious?

[Riddleton]

Twilight Trolling, rather. I'm tired. *yawn*

[Riddleton]

If you're town, then sorry.

[Riddleton]

Obviousky, it'll either be CKD or Farside. I'll reread this game during the night phase

[Riddleton]

[Riddleton]

I'll win this for us, GC! I will do it, I promise

[Riddleton]

I think GC is town. I saw Beli online and he would have posted if he knew the game had ended

[Riddleton]

Shock!

VOTE: Green Crayons

[Riddleton]

I'm the towniest town that ever towned

[Riddleton]

I swear if someone derp votes me. *angry glare*

I wouldn't bus both partners as scum D2 and D3, neither would anyone. It's a simple assumption, but if you accept that, then Titus amd I are town.

[Riddleton]

I don't suspect CDB.

[Riddleton]

I think Titus is right in that he's always the town counterwagon to the scum wagon.

[Riddleton]

I'm a paranoid person. I didn't like the way you presented it as my intuition was responsible.

[Riddleton]

I'm guessing it'll be a CKD-Riddle-Farside LyLo

[Riddleton]

I also thought you stance on CKD today was a little iffy too... I guess I was wrong.

[Riddleton]

farside... I think it might be you. I say this after considering what CKD-scum's motive would be today, his play towards the latter part of today, knowing GC is town, points to a slightly lean-town mindset. Scum-CKD would have kept his vote on Farside

[Riddleton]

I know. I was wrong.

[Riddleton]

It's got to be farside.

[Riddleton]

CKD, are you around? Talk to me

[Riddleton]

I've made my mind up.

VOTE: Farside

If I'm wrong... then sorry. Going through CKD-scum games, he's not the one to try and do the crazy gambits; he likes to play safer. Maybe I was giving CKD too much credit earlier.

[Riddleton]

The

only

thing on Day 1 that makes farside look plausible as a buddy is her inclusion in Blonde's list of five null-scum reads, three of which are confirmed town and one of which I know to be town (Chaos). Ordinarily I would subscribe to the theory that scum would include a scumbuddy in such a list but I don't think that is anywhere near enough to contradict the obviousness of the interactions listed above.

Just putting this out there, this is a theory I strongly believe in, as well. In a list of scum suspects, there's usually one scum -- at least -- in there.

[Riddleton]

Well if CKD is scum he could hammer for the win.
If this is it for town please let me know.

Indeed. But we all know that isn't the case.

[Riddleton]

YES YES YES

WE WAS RIGHT!

[Riddleton]

I KNEW CKD HAD TO BE TOWN AFTER YESTERDAY!

[Riddleton]

Thank you green crayons <3

[Riddleton]

looking at the kills.....it just doesnt seem to be coming from team Riddlescum.

Riddle's entrance into the game doesnt look like scum.

what do you meazn by this?

[Riddleton]

Well at least I can now focus on one person today.

I can ask one simple question here

Riddle: why did you vote for me after claiming for days to scum read CKD?

vote: riddle

Have you not read the thread? Specifically the part where Isaid yesterday's play from CKD is lean town?

[Riddleton]

That case on me is hilarious. 5 stars for effort, 0 stars for accuracy.

[Riddleton]

WHOO SCUM WIN

[Riddleton]

[Riddleton]

I'm only trolling CKD, it really was farside.

[Riddleton]

Oops, ninja'd

[Riddleton]

Good game, everyone!

[Riddleton]

I got to say though, I really enjoyed playing with you all! Maybe we can play again sometime.

Farside played well to last this long, regardless.

[Riddleton]

Thanks for modding this game, Baezu! Can we have the dead/scum QT links?