Open 562.1: C9++ endgame

[Riddleton]

Howdy. Pease do not hammer. I will post later on.

[Riddleton]

Venrob is my main and only scum read at this point in time. I have null reads on Reinoe and Gameplay. Everyone else I can see as town for now.

Venrob

-The setup speculation in #706 & #722 screams scum to me. It has no practical use to the town. I don't care what roles are in the game at the moment. We can find that out as the game progresses as we're only in D2. Too much speculation on SKs and RBs for my liking. Likewise, we've no way of knowing what the scum PRs are as we don't know many town PRs yet and whether they're confirmed or not. Therefore, can you please explain the town motivation behind this speculation because there's no information and it looks like a distraction tactic to me. I don't see the town motivation behind it.
-#681 looks like "Phew, I'm off the hook!".
-His vig claim at #662 is un CC'ed but I'm still not sure I believe it. Coupled with the setup spec it just looks like a clever claim by scum. Remember, scum will have PRs too so they will have a greater understanding of what town roles do and do not exist.
-Vigged a known town read (BC, #693) and when questioned, he responds with WIFOM (#696). Why would you do that as town?

VOTE: Vote: Venrob

[Riddleton]

I am interested in lynching either Venrob, Gameplay or Reinoe today. In that order, but Venrob takes priority.

[Riddleton]

Eh, what? Is that OMGUS? In order of priority I said. I would rather lynch Venrob first by a mile.

[Riddleton]

But whatever. When I flip town, please follow through on the above. Venrob is obvscum.

[Riddleton]

I know he did. I just don't believe him that's all.

[Riddleton]

You can't just look that scummy and then just say "Oh I'm Vig" to push away the lynch. There is more evidence to suggest that he's scummy than he's not. The only thing for him is the fact it's unCC'd but there just could be no vigs in this setup. Mafia would know that since they would know what PRs they have and could have a better guess at the town PRs.

[Riddleton]

I think he's SK

[Riddleton]

Also "Scum" is a catchall term, by the way. It refers to all kinds of anti-town including third parties

[Riddleton]

Venrob is my main and only scum read at this point in time. I have null reads on Reinoe and Gameplay. Everyone else I can see as town for now.

He is my only scum read. Reinoe and Gameplay as I said are null. I could see them as both town or anti town. Those two I will look at in more detail and establish which.

--

Look we cant risk it and lynch him. He can be Vig or Sk.

There's more scumtells than towntells. I would be extremely surprised if he flipped town.

[Riddleton]

Please trust me on this. He is SK I'm fairly sure. If you insist on lynching me this round at least get him next round. I have an extremely hard time seeing any of his posts from a townie POV.

[Riddleton]

Alright

[Riddleton]

My previous slot was lurking like hell not scum. I have no idea why though so I can not answer that. Maybe they forgot about the game?

[Riddleton]

Setup speculation helps us find out what scum we may have to deal with and how many. I have already confirmed that we have at least 3 scum as the town roles we have indicate that the only setups that have 2 scum are not possibilities. And that is scummy? The town motivation is "How many scum are there for us to lynch? When is LYLO?

To me it just draws wool over people's eyes and leads to WIFOM. Too many "What ifs" that aren't really necessary. It's usually something scum do as it distracts from the main focus of the game which would be scum hunting.
Please don't talk about setups - we don't need to worry about that as a town until the end of the game at LyLo stages. We're not there yet: we're only in day 2. Our priority so far is scumhunting. We can

not

determine for sure any kind of setup at this stage so any setup discussion is useless. Period.
I know some people will disagree with me there but that's the way I feel with it.

Just curious, but have you played a game with a variable setup before? If so, can you link me to some of your meta? This would help in getting a bigger understanding of your play. If you do setup spec as town I would be more convinced.

681 is not "Phew! I'm off the hook!" but rather "Well now I get to kill a scum read of mine!".

Alright. Each to their own. I interpreted it that way, though.

Vigged one of my scum reads. Considering the chances of roleblocker, if gameplay was mafia then when I shot him he would not have died (I would have been blocked as I had hinted toward shooting GP heavily). So I shot a different scum read of mine. If BC was still alive then more than likely scum roleblocked me when I "shot GP" and thus GP is scum. They did not though so GP is likely town and BC (one of my scum reads) is now dead.

But the problem I have is you go from saying "BC is definitely scum murder him" to "I think BC could

perhaps

be scum". It's not in a post but your tone acriss your ISO changes dramatically.

Alternatively, let me word it this way:

why did you kill

anyone

? Vigs don't blindly pick a random number and go with that as usually all Vig choices are all universally agreed to be scum. Unlike, say, cop or Doctor, Vigilante is serious business. Going off and doing your own thing isn't respected no matter what. The sort of behaviour you're doing is what an SK would do. To me, the random killing that hasn't been agreed upon by town is where I would draw the distinction between Vig and SK.
BC was obvious town. No-one else scumread him but you, I believe. So it just baffles me why you would take a leap and kill someone like that. Why not wait until the next day round so we could discuss him if you truly thought he was scum?

I still think you're the SK, I'm afraid. I'd like you to respond to some of these points though please

[Riddleton]

Sorry for the wall, by the way. ^

[Riddleton]

OK, I've meta'd your other C9++ Game. Thanks for the post. Please see here for the game and =19391]here for Venrob's ISO.

For the record, you did do a bit of speculation. I found post #738 (posted a week after the game started) which said you were going to roll 100 setups and comment on each. I consider it newbie play but it at least denies the theory you are doing this

because

you are scum.

I would like you to answer my question regarding the kill in #823 though, please.

[Riddleton]

I believe I gave the reason already, but I will repeat- I had hinted that I was going to shoot GP, so if I got roleblocked I would know GP is scum. To know if I was roleblocked or not, I had to shoot someone. Who? My other scumread. If GP was scum, roleblocker would have roleblocked me to stop his death- so I tried to pull a fast one on the mafia. They did not block me, so GP is, as such, likely town. My other scumread was killed by me. I said this all near the beginning of the day.

Why did you pull that kind of gambit? Best case scenario, you've got nothing but WIFOM as to whether you were RBed because GP is scum, or because of a double bluff. Worse case scenario you kill a townie.

[Riddleton]

What? ^

[Riddleton]

please don't replace out GP

[Riddleton]

personally think the Venrob wagon should die.

Why?

[Riddleton]

Sorry to hear that Venrob. I hope you'll be OK.

[Riddleton]

personally think the Venrob wagon should die.

Why?

Why do you think it should live and go through?

-There's also his post on #830 with his terrible gambit of sacrificing BC to determine if GP is scum or not.
-He's my biggest scumread. It makes sense for him to be SK.

[Riddleton]

Venrob, Gameplay, Reinoe.

In that order.

[Riddleton]

The other players I see as town.

[Riddleton]

Yes. Do you see him as scum?

[Riddleton]

Ugh, I meant why do you see him as scum.

[Riddleton]

Gameplay, why do you see elk as scum?

[Riddleton]

Almost 7 or so out of his 13 posts are about SG being scum. Yet he votes Venrob? What the actual fuck. Not to mention Venrob's wagon was just getting famous. Oh where is the town motivation in not voting your main scumread? Like

He votes Venrob because no one was voting SG. Which is worse to you: someone parking their vote on a useless slot that is not going to be lynched today, or someone joining a bandwagon. Even if his reasons for joining the wagon are a bit iffy (#681 wasn't my strongest tell on him) I still think he's town.

[Riddleton]

Another reason not to lynch Venrob is that there are a lot of lurky/unreadeble players. His shot every night can be extremelyyy helpful in sorting the game out. Like I was scumreading BC and his shot helped me.

You go from sdaying "Ugh, the venrob wagon is shit" to "I think he's SK but his shots will help sort the game out". What?

[Riddleton]

It's not a hardcore defense: I just think he'll flip town.

[Riddleton]

Hm is that scummy? Point me to the scum motivation there plox.

Can you answer my question instead of sidestepping it, please. Why do you think we should keep Venrob alive if you think he's SK? Why would the extra shots being fired sort the game out? I just want to know your reasons behind that post.

[Riddleton]

Also again his shots can be really useful.

You

want

more people to die? That's a terrible plan

[Riddleton]

Look, we find scum & SK during the day. We don't want more people dying during the night. SK is priority for now as there's only one (obviously) so getting rid of SK will mean less NKs.

[Riddleton]

HOW

do we control the SKs kill? It is

not

aligned with the town, remmeber?

[Riddleton]

The SK will do it's best to not cast suspicion on itself. It does its own thing.

[Riddleton]

More people die, and more quickly the game gets into LyLo. We get information during the day, not the night. The less day rounds we have, the harder it'll be to get information.

[Riddleton]

And also kill town quicker too. Why make blind guesses through the night when we get more vital information through the day? I don't like the plan as it's justy not going to work. For one, we have no way of knowing whether the SK will follow through.

Think of it this way:
-Let's say hypothetically we are in a game with 10 players. 2 of which are mafia and there is 1 SK.
-We lynch one player (town), and we tell the SK (go kill another player! (They're town as well))
-The mafia kill a third person who is also town.
-We now have 7 players. Repeat the process. 3 kills a night.
-SK will kill a scum to prevent a mafia win. We now have 4 players, 1 SK and 1 scum.
-and so on. We can't afford to be wrong many times under this idea.

In case you don't understand, the SK

is not going to kill scum straight away

.

Why am I afraid? Because I don't want to be in a game where people are

allowing

a SK to roam free in a game and cherry pick out players one by one. This is not how we play as town. I repeat: the SK is not aligned with the town. It is against US. It is against Scum too. Understand now?

[Riddleton]

It'd be harder for the SK to win if there are more day rounds. The SK wants to

survive

. The SK wants as many people to die as possible; why would the SK kill scum if they add an extra kill? The SK is avoiding day rounds, not night rounds. The more day rounds the SK has the more likely he is to win.

[Riddleton]

*the more likely he is to lose. Sorry

[Riddleton]

You need to die today. You're obviously the SK.

[Riddleton]

The SK isn't your ally. Why would Venrob shoot scum? Like I said, he wants to keep scum alive as long as possible so 2 kills can be done every night. It is not a double lynch.

[Riddleton]

Searching for a replacement Mr Escape

Huh? Didn't he just replace in?

Listen to me. We tell Venrob who to shoot. IF HE DOES NOT SHOOT THEM, we lynch Venrob tomorrow. If he does, we keep him around because then we control another shot. We kill him off when we need to or when scum gets around to it.

I just don't like the plan. I find it silly that we're giving control to an SK.
Look at #905 please; he

does not have to shoot whom we want to

. We lose an innocent confirmed townie and venrob dies tomorrow is what's going to happen under your plan. Why are we

going to lose that extra townie

because I can assure you the SK isn't going to play games and help us because SK is not aligned with us. Why can't we kill Venrob today so

we

the town are in control, and we have one extra townie in play?

[Riddleton]

Because he's been found out and done already? Venrob, obviously, isn't going to win. Why would he co-operate regardless?

[Riddleton]

Bullshit.

[Riddleton]

I'm psychic! :O
-I told you Elk was innocent.
-Venrob hasn't done what we said, which I told you would happen if we didn't lynch him.



VOTE: Venrob

[Riddleton]

Stop voting for other people, seriously. Venrob needed to die the previous day.

We can lynch Venrob today
Kill Gameplay tomorrow (I'll post a case on him later)

[Riddleton]

Actually, kill reinoe tomorrow, gameplay the day after.

[Riddleton]

Gameplay just pisses me off. If he wasn't scum I would policy lynch him anyway

[Riddleton]

Sorry let me translate:
OMG U RETARDDDED? GET YOUR FUKKIN VOTES ON VENROB K?

[Riddleton]

I'm a great impressionist I'll have you know ^

We should lynch venrob today, by the way. Yes, even you, Gameplay.

[Riddleton]

Angry

, Venrob has been proven to be SK.

[Riddleton]

I HAVE A FUKKIN PR OMG YEAH

[Riddleton]

Full SK

[Riddleton]

Venrob is clear unless someone else claims pr

Yes, I do have a PR by the way, but I'm not claiming which one at this point in time. It is important that I don't.

[Riddleton]

Claim: Not VT

That's as much as you're going to get from me. I'll claim my role & my night actions later. Now is not the right time to do so, sorry.

[Riddleton]

yes

[Riddleton]

I fukin ya she was town.
Venrob got obviously blocked. Why? Reinoe

He wasn't fucking blocked. He is V/LA remember?

[Riddleton]

Why would a mafia roleblocker block a SK if they help get their wincon?

[Riddleton]

And I should also point out that the mafia can not kill and roleblock on the same night

[Riddleton]

And before you (gameplay) say to me "It's a town RB", consider that you put Reinoe as a strong scumread and also said "Why? Reinoe". So your logic is wrong either way.

[Riddleton]

Hint: you are scum GP

[Riddleton]

Despite all that above, it's still more beneficial for us to kill the SK. He may pose an equal threat, but consider that once he's dead we only have to deal with one NK.

[Riddleton]

Yes. Read the wiki

[Riddleton]

I would eat my coat if GP is town

[Riddleton]

I skimmed a bit, I think GP looks townish.

I disagree:-
-Loads of ab hominem through out the thread. When he isn't flaming someone or being a VI he produces some interesting posts for filler purposes and to look town. It's alright on it's own but when you ISO it, it looks suspicious.
-Notice how he was behind Venrob until he claimed and then was insistent he was town? I guess he doesn't want the SK to die -- valuable asset to scum.
-#874 is flawed and is a push to start a counterwagon against Elk. He was obvtown as far as I was concerned.
-in #878 says he might be SK but anyone who doesn't want to lynch SK is scum
-IIOA in #880
-Actually

wants

more people to die in #898. Like, really?
-#999 and #1002 look more like fishing than scumhunting

[Riddleton]

Well I don't give a fuk. This game is cocky as hell. There are 6-7 players who are unreadable, lurky and unhelpful. I prefer to die. I also hope that venrob shoots someone who really is scum
So I am not hammering. Idk if he is sk, scum, vigilante or whatever

This post and some of the others from gameplay right at the end of day 1 come off kinda town.

True, but you've got to consider you're cherry picking one post out of another 250+ which are one or more of: flaming, VI, scum.

[Riddleton]

FOS: morththecat

. I think you are scum as well.

[Riddleton]

Obv town and you didn't even bother to stop his lynch. This is lacky. As hell.

See #889,#892. My efforts were focused on a Venrob lynch, not going around saying "Oh yeah X is town".

xD Does anyone see how Riddle is pulling arguments from his ass? Like why would I want an SK who can kill me at any single moment if I am scum? Don't you think that maybe I am afraid of going over a pr?

Scum get an extra night kill. More importantly,I'm pretty sure SK does not know who the scum are. When the scum no longer need the SK, he can easily be shot in the night. It's beneficial for scum to keep the SK alive.

Lol flaming? Acting VI? Pls, I have done tons more compared to you.

More posts =/= more content. Of course you would have made more posts anyway, as I'm a replacee.

[Riddleton]

I suggest we wait Venrob to tell us why there is only 1 kill.

I told you. V/LA

[Riddleton]

Oh actually there is a town RB

Indeed there is. But he wasn't roleblocked.

[Riddleton]

And you have also glossed over my points on #1017 -> #1022

[Riddleton]

Oh actually there is a town RB
Ok so yep
So guys voting Venrob today. Tomorrow Elmo. The next day reinoe. And I hope the game by then will be over.

VOTE: Venrob

Remember how you were saying in #956 "Venrob is town and a vig"?

[Riddleton]

Oh ok btw what if Venrob wasn't blocked. Instead Venrob shot SG and scum tried to kill Venrob but venrob chose bp. This makes more sense to me. If so reinoe is conf. scum.

Because Venrob is V/LA? He has limited access as he was kicked out of his house

[Riddleton]

He is? OK then, sorry.

[Riddleton]

There is a godfather, gameplay. I'm pretty much certain on that

[Riddleton]

There are 5 Ts. ..I really can't say any more without outing my role but that is true

[Riddleton]

Actually wait you're right,

Bulge

. I forgot Pigeon softclaimed a PR too unless he was trolling.

[Riddleton]

you can make as many posts as you like gameplay. IT doesn't mean you're town

[Riddleton]

So no godfather then? Bulge is innocent. Probably reinoe for last scum

[Riddleton]

yes I am sure. I want a SK lynch today regardless, though.

[Riddleton]

yes I am sure. I want a SK lynch today regardless, though.

Just lol. Get your thinking machine and tell me why I am scum. The reasons you gave earlier didn't say anything

Trust me, I have other reasons. But those I can not disclose yet.

[Riddleton]

I think that's correct

[Riddleton]

Take all the time you need.

[Riddleton]

Dont hammer yet please

UNVOTE: venrob

I'm a likely NK tonight so will be making some "last words" before I revote

[Riddleton]

Oh,we're doing ranked? If so:

Gameplay506
reinoe
morphthecat

Wait for my reads

[Riddleton]

I think those 3 are scum. That is in order of confidence

[Riddleton]

Gameplay506 in a nutshell

-See #1032 for my main posts
-See #1017->#1022 for my refutal of his "Venrob was roleblocked" argument.
-flipflopping. ( Venrob's scum! Venrob's innocent! Venrob's Vig! Venrob was roleblocked! Venrob's SK!). Just about every combination in the book was covered in his ISO.
-#707 "yay I'm clear!" (hint: no you weren't). Look at his interaction from that point on, especially #732, #741
-He started my wagon based on the premise "[fruit vendor] didn't do anything". There were a lot of lurkers - including elk & bubblegum (morphthecat).
-Loads of ab hominem through out the thread. When he isn't flaming someone or being a VI he produces some interesting posts for filler purposes and to look town. It's alright on it's own but when you ISO it, it looks suspicious.
-Notice how he was behind Venrob until he claimed and then was insistent he was town? I guess he doesn't want the SK to die -- valuable asset to scum.
-#874 is flawed and is a push to start a counterwagon against Elk. He was obvtown as far as I was concerned.
-in #878 says he might be SK but anyone who doesn't want to lynch SK is scum
-IIOA in #880
-Actually wants more people to die in #898. Like, really?
-#999 and #1002 look more like fishing than scumhunting

morph next

[Riddleton]

morphthecat

-Cherry picks out quotes for Gameplay's innocence (#1030). I'm aware he's made some townish posts but cherry picking out just 1 or 2 isn't going to do him (or you) any favours.
-I'm honestly shocked that an experienced hydra doesn't know about C9++, or worse yet, doesn't even know that mafia PRs can not be performed on the same night as a group kill. Seems like trying to feign innocence. I don't believe that you didn't realise the two could not be done at once. (#1023)
-criticises gameplay (#966,#972) but also defends him by saying some of his posts are town later on. Do you have a solid opinion on GP?

bubblegum

-Has a different meta to that of the previous game. Comes across as a lot more serious. Could be a different scum meta as she was town in the aborted game.
-townreads reinoe and gameplay (my other scumreads). Townreads venrob (the SK)
-IIOA overload in #282. Hoorah for one-line snippets of comments that tell the town nothing.

[Riddleton]

I agree with everyone elses Reinoe comments. I don't see the need in repeating what everyone else thinks there.

VOTE: Venrob

L-1.

[Riddleton]

Lynch those 2 please

[Riddleton]

-I'm honestly shocked that an experienced hydra doesn't know about C9++, or worse yet, doesn't even know that mafia PRs can not be performed on the same night as a group kill. Seems like trying to feign innocence. I don't believe that you didn't realise the two could not be done at once. (#1023)

A: Neither of us play opens unless begged to by mods. Opens are by far our least favorite type of game, with themes sitting in the forefront. Muffin asked us nicely.

B: You're completely incorrect about the way mafia PRs and groupscum kills work. The same SLOT may not do both, but a team can most certainly kill and use a PR with more than one living member.

A: Fair enough. I prefer closed setups too.

B: You are incorrect. In this setup, the same group may either roleblock or use their NK.

[Riddleton]

The wiki has ambiguous wording.

Mafia Roleblocker cannot kill AND block in the same night.

I can sort of see what you're saying though.

[Riddleton]

The c9++ games I've played on other sites always follow the roleblock or kill rule. I kind of expected it to be the same here. I kind of skimmed over the wiki article and did not pick up on the careful wording there.
I apologise for that, by the way

[Riddleton]

Is he posting in other games?

[Riddleton]

Hammer then.

[Riddleton]

VOTE: Gameplay

I'm cool with this. Reasons are stated in my earlier reads.

[Riddleton]

Massclaim now.

Let's wait for Wolfy to establish a good order. Wolfy should choose it so that his scummiest suspects claim first, and the most town read suspects claim last to prevent fakeclaims.

[Riddleton]

Least Scummy
reinoe
Wolfy
Angrypidgeon
TheBulge
MorphTheCat
gameplay
ElmoTehAZN
Riddleton
Most scummy

I don't like this post -- and no, not because I'm the most scummy in your list -- but rather because of the lack of justification. Anyone can throw a random reads list together like that. It is the justification that is most important.

[Riddleton]

FYI: I said wolfy above because he is unCC'ed and is universally townread by all.

[Riddleton]

Gameplay + Morph + Reinoe. You can thank me later

[Riddleton]

I know but most people have at least given reasons behind some of their reads.

[Riddleton]

That was post #791. I have obviously developed my reads on you and Gameplay since then.

You've done nothing to develop your reads. For example your read on gameplay and I went from null-reads to scum-reads based on what?

Have you not read my posts?

You haven't mentioned one thing I've done that's scummy: your just sheeping other player's reads (and they are also not mentioning what I've done that's scummy).

I apologise; that was more laziness on my part really, but my case on you is no different to other users. I'll post my case on you later, if you wish.

[Riddleton]

Yes, it's LyLo, and yes, I'm voting Gameplay. I don't have any intention of waiting to the end and quickhammering a townie, because I am not scum. Gameplay is, however.

[Riddleton]

I am not misreading your slot. It is to be noted though, that I think my case on Bubblegum (your replacee) is more substantial than your case, however.

[Riddleton]

Scum trying to rush things ^

[Riddleton]

Why are you sire there are 3 scum without knowing the setup?

-There can only be 7 numbers chosen
-To be 2 scum roles, there has to be 6 Ts.
-3 people have claimed PRs (me & AP & Wolfy)

[Riddleton]

^ Assuming there's no SK which is probably the case now that Venrob turns out to actually be the vig

[Riddleton]

Sorry. Let me ammend that:

CVV is confirmed. The 1-shot cop is unCC'ed, but probably valid.
AP and I have soft claimed PRs.

[Riddleton]

so 6Ts is impossible regardless. That's my point (even though I forgot to put down the vig flip for some reason)

[Riddleton]

I'm also having some trouble understanding why bjc would have been so disengaged as a PR.

Then go research that theory, instead of sitting there thinking. Meta bjc and see if he does sometimes idle when given a PR.

[Riddleton]

No condorset?

Sure we can do that:
Most recent tallies for each.

AP's tally

1 Elmo
2 Reinoe
3 Riddleton
4 Morph
5 Gameplay
6 Wolfy (in case he isnt actually just 1x or something, idk)
7 AP

Reinoe's tally

1 Riddleton
2 Elmo
3 gameplay
4 morph
5 ap
6 wolfy
7 reinoe

TheBulge's Tally

1 reinoe
2 Elmo TeH AzN
3 gameplay506
4 morph the cat
5 Riddleton
6 AngryPidgeon
7 Wolfy (not listed in original tally; but put last as he was confident in Wolfy)

-------------------

That means that (as of this post) the claims will be done in this order:
1. Elmo
2. Riddleton
3. Reinoe
4. Gameplay
5. Morph
6. AP
7. Wolfy

[Riddleton]

I've already said I think Riddleton is scum.

He still hasn't returned the favor and explained why I'm scum though. It's like he's been calling me scum for no reason...

I said I'll post my case on you later. Please be patient. There are other things to respond to first.

[Riddleton]

Sorry, the above needs clarification. It looked to me like morph knew for certain that I was going to die tonight.

Does anyone else find this odd?

[Riddleton]

Town.

[Riddleton]

Elmo is town. His meta is always the "Do little, but post in the background" strategy. Here are some posts which I feel are town:-
-#776 awknowledges we can't just keep flinging shit and need to come up with more conclusive cases. He wouldn't say that as mafia; it's hypocritical.
-Neither would he say something like #771 as mafia for the same reason
-Finally PoE. I have towntells on him, and because I scumread morph, Gameplay & Reinoe (all 3 scum), he can not be scum.

[Riddleton]

and them using meta is a towntell for those two.

I don't think using meta is a tell. At most, it's a nulltell.

[Riddleton]

still waiting for that Riddleton case...

Please have some patience. I'm writing it up as well as replying to some posts here as well. Would you be OK waiting another hour?

[Riddleton]

still waiting for that Riddleton case...

Please have some patience. I'm writing it up as well as replying to some posts here as well. Would you be OK waiting another hour?

OK. I'm not used to people posting and building a case. <----Not Sarcasm btw.

Yeah, I do it at the same time as it takes me a while to build cases.

[Riddleton]

still waiting for that Riddleton case...

I wanted to claim yesterday to avoid any possible confusion and he implied he had strong reason to think Venrob was scum (other than just having a role, at least from what I understood). I'm nervous about him calling Wolfy confirmed when Wolfy is most certainly not confirmed. I'm also a little wary that he instavoted in what he believes to be lylo.

Still, my gut kind of likes him for town for reasons I can't really qualify. I think his play is rather extravagant for a newer player if he is actually scum. I would be ridiculously impressed if he is. So I don't know what I think exactly. I really need to get a better grasp on him when I catch up.

I think he's played offsite. possibly extensively. He said something about having played this setup a few times elsewhere.

You are correct. I've played mafia since 2011 on various forums across the internet. I wouldn't call 2011 "extensive play" but at the same time I wouldn't class myself as a newbie either. I have also played this setup a few times before too - although with the alteration that the the mafia could either only roleblock or perform it's kill, not both - as pointed out earlier.

[Riddleton]

I think he's played offsite. possibly extensively. He said something about having played this setup a few times elsewhere.

Oh well then that would explain his confidence in this game at least and may change my perspective a little bit on him.

Knowing that, I think its more likely he may attempt to actively drop fake town tells. Still, looking back on that now..

It's not a fake town tell. I genuinely made a mistake. Offsite experience is quite different to MS and they have different rules, customs etc. That was how it was played where I was on various forums and it was how I (mis)interpreted that rule on the wiki.

[Riddleton]

2 out of 3 ain't bad. I was about to post my case against Reinoe as well but the topic was locked. Bit annoying, I realise now morph reinoe and Angry were just waiting to get online at the same time.

[Riddleton]

RIDDLETON WHY THE FUCK DID YOU CLAIM NOT VT

Gambit. I figured the setup was CVVTTTT for ages. I wanted to guages people's reactions to figure if anyone else picks up it's a fake or not.

[Riddleton]

It sucked in the end. I expected more reactions, to be honest.

[Riddleton]

I didn't do it in LyLo. I thought we would have been fine as I thought Venrob was SK.

[Riddleton]

Riddle well I dont want to blame anyone but if you figured the setup for ages why did you still push for Venrob?

I figurd the setup after Venrob died.

[Riddleton]

I take all blame for my play. I really should have picked up on Angry's softclaim as BS. I kind of glanced over it and never payed attention to it afterwards which is frustrating. My play sucked. :/

[Riddleton]

Lesson: don't do silly gambits.

[Riddleton]

It's annoying because I could have easily have figured this if I thought about Angry's claim more. I pegged Reinoe and Morph.

Gameplay's a difficult person to read. I know that now for future games. I thought you VI style (no offense) was fake as Reinoe said in a post.

[Riddleton]

I'd like to see the mafia QT as well.

[Riddleton]

Can I pre-in too? It sounds like a cool game.