Open 540 - a C9 + + (Over)

[Aegor]

Hi.

Hi.

[Aegor]

Hi.

Hi.

How's it going?

Great! How are you?

[Aegor]

I have not played this setup. In terms of variable setups, the last one was PIE when that was still being used for n00b games.

Are you scum?

(@Aegor)

No. VOTE: DeasVail for even implicitly entertaining the notion.

[Aegor]

So that I can compare your play there to your play here. If it was a long time ago though probably not going to be the best comparison material.

I think fake claims are common in this setup too. I think I had one when I played as well. People think it is a good way to take a shot as a villager but at the same time it does run the risk of having a PR claim thinking they might have caught scum in a fake claim.

q.v. this thread

[Aegor]

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VOTE: innocentvillager

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I like you.

[Aegor]

omg please no fakeclaims

[Aegor]

VOTE: Yiu113 in case your avatar is accurate.

[Aegor]

VOTE: Yiu113

Why not?
The rest of the town is doing it!!

Awesome reasoning!

[Aegor]

Need moar votes.

[Aegor]

FTFY

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[Aegor]

Why is someone at L minus 1 on page 3? Unvote before scum end the day in a hurry.

~Titus

Well now we won't catch them.

[Aegor]

Well, I was half suspecting DeasVail, but innocentvillager just strikes me as more scummy.

So there is no "other scum?"

[Aegor]

VOTE: cxinlee for an incredibly scummy vote. We will see what his analysis will bring.

Do not like MeowMix's posts. NJAC needs to post.

[Aegor]

Traveling tomorrow; will catch up tomorrow evening.

[Aegor]

My vote is staying where it is for the moment, but a few things that bothered me in the last few pages:

Yiu, why did you hop on the biggest wagon after yours when you started to get some actual pressure on you?

What kind of question is that? Regardless of alignment, why would Yiu not try to deflect attention from himself? That is just a scummy question because no answer will be satisfactory.

This is a notice to me that I have some work to do in terms of figuring out which is scummier DeasVail or MeowMix.
I kinda didn't like villager's last few posts however, I do not believe that it can warrent a vote.
UNVOTE:
Gotta start figuring out where to go from here.

Well then...

VOTE: Drake Crusader

I've found that talking out loud in thread to appear townie is scummy as hell (and to be clear this is what I think you're doing above.) You want to make a note to yourself, write it down on a piece of paper and tape it to your monitor. Start a word file and keep some notes. You don't post something in the thread that screams, "Hey, look at me, being all townie and shit and leaving notes to myself."

And your clarification/explanation is classic fence-sitting.

Oh yeah, and you're talking about doing something instead of actually doing it.

That's 3 classic scum behaviors, 3 strikes... you're out.

- Bauss -

GS's post is spot-on, even though I am not necessarily sold on DC being scum. If you are town, do not make posts like DC's.

Well, based on how bad that post was I am thinking you are probably scum.

Why that post is bad:
1. Just a question to anyone.
2. Very easy set up for you to agree with someone's reads.
3. You could have very easily given some of your reads.
4. Post seems pretty fence sitty to me since you don't commit any of your own info.
5. Seems a little to reserved.

1. God forbid someone actually ask others things
2. Lynching people requires agreement on reads. Talk about stretching. Moreover, sometimes someone else's case can distill your own vague suspicions.
3-5. You are correct.

I wasn't really "defending" him, more like "attacking your attack" on someone else...Also why would you think I'm sure of his alignment if I "defend" him lol.

Uh...


k, more votes on cxinlee please. I mean, his terribad ISO consists of two posts, the second of which promised to "analyse things"

yesterday

.

[Aegor]

That's nonsense. There are plenty of satisfactory answers. Quite simply, if he were Town he'd have no need to deflect and his behaviour would stand up to such scrutiny.

And yet mislynches still occur...

[Aegor]

And yet mislynches still occur...

Your point?

That your expectation is unreasonable given the reality of the game. That does not make Yiu less scummy, but it dos make your question silly.

[Aegor]

I’d like to single out Aegor ( Cos I will harass people that vote me, and I will show no mercy against those who oppose my survival)

=OMGUS, except worse, if such is possible

and his bullshit argument against me.

I mean, his terribad ISO consists of two posts

Which is essentially lurking? I have seen many inactive town, and I’m sure you have too. Lurking/Inactivity in general is a null read.

I policy lynch lurkers. Lurking is anti-town. Also, as you well know, my case against was based on the scumminess of your two posts, not only on the fact that you made two posts. Finally, process of elimination applies.

I acknowledge that I failed to meet my promise due to irl stuff, but you trying to scumread me for this is just more horribad than my terribad iso. I could even argue that as scum, it would make sense that I would be more pressurised to meet my promise than town.

And yet I was the only one who called you out on it until Drake Crusader's recent scummy post. If you start contributing, I will gladly move my vote.

[Aegor]

I don’t think the main reason it was OMGUS although it might have somehow contributed to your scumminess (You do realise that my bracketed comment wasn’t serious right?), the main reason why I suspect you is because you look like scum trying to pluck scumreads out of thin air.

Okay then, tell me why the two posts were scummy, and why they would be unlikely to come out from town.

I already did. Townies contribute and do not lie.

[Aegor]

There are malicious lies (scummy), non-malicious lies (For example, a fake claim for the sake of baiting scum NK), and unintentional lies (When you aren’t aware you are lying)

You cannot unintentionally lie. A lie by definition involves intent to deceive.

[Aegor]

Yiu & Aegor, why is it worth making a fuss out of disagreeing with cxinlee's terminology? It's obvious what he means.

He voted me for pulling scumreads out of thin air, even though his vote is ironically pulled straight out of thin air. That is why.

[Aegor]

Yiu & Aegor, why is it worth making a fuss out of disagreeing with cxinlee's terminology? It's obvious what he means.

He voted me for pulling scumreads out of thin air, even though his vote is ironically pulled straight out of thin air. That is why.

I meant the thing about the unintentional lie.

The "unintentional lie" was what I was talking about.

[Aegor]

Aegor explain how you came to the conclusion that I intentionally made a promise I knew I could not keep (Which is the only possible conclusion I can think of if you refer to my broken promise to be a lie and lies to be intentional).

The point of this game is determining motivation. I simply thought it was more likely you were trying to fly under the radar (which almost worked, by the way) than the alternative. My opinion, as always, is open to change.

[Aegor]

I know this is super-trite, but we need to get to a lynch, and no player has even half of the required votes. It is unfortunate that Hermy MIA.

The most likely lynches seem to me to be cxinlee, Hermy, and Yiu. BC and DC have votes but there has not really been an energetic case against them. Anyone willing to compromise or make another plug for their lynch candidate.

[Aegor]

VOTE: Drake Crusader

Hermy site flaked.

Lynch this.

Yiu was clearly town the last few pages before the lynch and I'm disgusted that the lynch went through.

Now we're going to get drake.

Care to explain?

[Aegor]

I explained it yesterday, which you ignored and then you lynched someone who made 5 obvious town posts in a row.

1) "You" is inappropriate here, since I neither ignored your non-existent case nor voted Yiu past the RVS stage
2) An examination of your ISO yielded this gem:

"I'm voting this wagon but I'm just going to talk about why other people are town/scum so no one follows my vote."

Unless I missed something, that is your "explanation."


Just so we are clear, you want the town to listen to you unconditionally and then lynch whoever you think is scum, correct?

[Aegor]

He was discrediting my reads without making any commentary on which I was town or scum,

What does that even mean?

and doing so for an absurd reason furthermore.

If I didn't want people to lynch my scumreads, what exactly would I want them to do?

What absurd reason? You are telling us that someone is

obviously

scum, that we should "lynch this now." Fine. You also say that there is no better case on anyone else. Also fine. But together, they are problematic: no one else is calling for an immediate lynch with total vehemence and no actual case. If you were not so extreme, the burden of proof would be less.

So I will do your job for you, since you are worse than useless.

Drake Crusader's post 49 is a terrible vote, as I pointed out in post 50. DC's post 113 is bad, as RC pointed out yesterday. In post 155, he expresses his desire for a Uite lynch but chooses not to vote for a bogus reason (it is not as if Uite was at L-1, so there was no reason to wait for him to come back from V/LA). There is subsequently total silence on Uite from DC. And now Uite is dead, so I guess we will never know what could have been.

VOTE: Drake Crusader

[Aegor]

Anyone who is voting Charizard right now is claiming scum.

His town/scum status will sort itself out.

Care to explain?

LOL. Good luck with that.

BC's reasoning is plausible.

[Aegor]

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I did not read any of the posts on this page for some reason. The answer is no.

[Aegor]

I am not understanding why BC is or ever was under suspicion. Can we move on, please?

[Aegor]

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But 0, 1, 2, 3, and 4 do. They are collectively more likely than five. Moreover, BC's kill did not succeed. BC knows this because BC knows whom he attempted to kill. And if there is no RBer, then the only other option (besides BC lying, which makes no sense) is that DC is a 1-shot Bulletproof SK. I suppose it is possible that there is a town RBer, but RBing BC would make zero sense as well.

CAN WE PLEASE MOVE ON.

[Aegor]

Do whatever you want. No one CCed the vig claim and BC has said he would have no problem getting lynched for the sake of providing info to the town. I suppose that is sufficient for me.

[Aegor]

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The odds of two vigs in my mind is negligible, but I have not done the math.

[Aegor]

k. I will start posting again when someone has something interesting to say.

[Aegor]

Drake is scummier than ever. Will explain later, as needed.

[Aegor]

Okay seriously.

VOTE: Drake Crusader

Aegor, get on this. I'm done pressure voting, this lynch needs to happen today.

I am with you. I even made the case you refused to make. Now other people just need to read my posts and vote Drake too.

[Aegor]

RC's play here is absolutely not out of the ordinary. I would kindly point people in the direction of my post 313, to which no one has actually responded and into which I actually put time and effort. DC is a great lynch for today.

[Aegor]

The popcorn massclaim wasn't a joke. This setup has a mathematical formula, so to speak, that determines roles. At this point in the game, scum know only slightly more than town about the roles/setup. Fakeclaiming is very hard to do, because as people flip, the truth comes to light for all to see. Therefore, scum are at a significant disadvantage by having to fabricate a claim without all the cards on the table, in a random order. We as town can then figure out who is lying, lynch them, and then continue on our way through nights and days using the claims and flips as a guide.

- Bauss -

Oooh...May be willing to vote Gunslinger. Anyone pushing for a mass claim now is hardclaiming scum. There is no reason whatsoever to mass claim. All that does is expose every PR to a night kill. Scum can just claim VT and profit. This is especially true if there are only a few PRs in the game.

[Aegor]

No. This is so stupid. Claiming is the dumbest thing ever. We should absolutely not claim right now. That necessarily involves outing the PRs, unless some of them choose to claim VT, which will be disastrous later anyway. Why on earth would we sacrifice the advantage that the PRs provide by outing them? If BC is telling the truth, then there is a RBer. The implications of that should be obvious. If a PR has not claimed yet, there is probably a very good reason.

VT is not a safe claim for Scum in this setup. No fake claim is.

VT is a pretty solid fakeclaim.

And, PRs don't win games anymore than VT's can. With our Vig outted, scum needs to RB him or kill him. Meanwhile, we work from a position that compliments our presumption of game setup. If you can't see how we can play a mass claim in our favor, that's fine... I see ways in which it works.

That makes no sense. You cannot possibly whether it works without knowing about the setup in the first place. The

a priori

bells are sounding. If BC is not lying, outing a cop and doc, for example, would be a total disaster and instantly neutralize both of them. That is hardly a good deal.

Don't insult my intelligence by countering my suggestion simply by stating you see a way that it helps mafia more than town. Use your imagination. Think outside of the box that you normally play mafia in. For every brilliant scum strategy you can concoct, there is a corresponding town play of equal awesomeness.

Do not insult our intelligence by simply asserting via handwaving that some magical imagination will turn a dumb idea into a great one.

VOTE: Gunslinger

There is really no excuse.

[Aegor]

Aegor, you can't cherrypick to ignore my posts when arguing against massclaim. Massclaim prevents scum from manipulating the setup.

The setup could be manipulated even with a massclaim.

If Beast or another PR claimer is scum, the numbers won't add up. If they do, we confirm people for the most part.

You are so, so scummy. There is no way to tell whether the numbers add up unless we have more than seven points worth of PRs or you happen to know

exactly

what the scum setup is. That is the entire point of this setup.

[Aegor]

@Aegor, you don't need to know the exact setup to know if there are not enough PRs. Look at the scum options. If town is weak, then scum will be forced to claim PRs to save Beast or suddenly bus him.

But if there are enough PRs, we have outed all our PRs. How is that helpful? All of this is assuming that beast is a maf. He could still be a Serial Killer for all we know, which would throw the numbers off completely. And if beast is actually a Vig, then there is an RB. That presents far too many options to do anything with. If every PR truthfully claims and we are left with some number of VTs, we have outed every single PR and have to hope to lynch the RBer today, otherwise the PRs will almost certainly become useless because they will be blocked and killed.

You are basically saying that narrowing down the lynch pool by an indeterminate amount is worth outing every single PR. I maintain my position that that is completely stupid.

[Aegor]

Aegor, so your reasons for voting GS is for supporting a massclaim?

My reason for voting GS is persistently pushing for a terrible idea that could devastate the town without actually justifying it beyond incredibly vague statements like "town can use it to its advantage" and "think outside the box." And painting any strong opposition as scummy.

Also why is it that you haven't mentioned me at all day 2, even though I was your vote for the entire day 1?

I would still be fine with your lynch. Other players deserve more attention and have not been pressed as hard. The day is not quite over yet. And I do happen to think that DC and GS are both scummier than you at the moment.

[Aegor]

Aegor, the statement, I have been vague is far from accurate. I have said that mass claim prevents convienent ccs in lylo and practically forces the hand of scum.

I agree with the concern about lylo. But tomorrow is not lylo anyway unless there are four scum. So we should wait until tomorrow.

[Aegor]

Not liking the lurkers (i.e. players who got prodded). Especially as lynches occur and deadline approaches...

Aegor, why are you telling scum what to do in 443?

I am not. Any scum not comatose would do what I said they would do. And stating the obvious and potentially helping really dumb scum seems worth it to me if it eliminates chances of a catastrophe.

Disagree strongly. RC is a competitor. Plays to win. Actually getting lynched, with a self vote, is against win con for scum. At L1, asking me for a hammer, with a self vote is not something scum RC would do. Doesn't fit the profile of RC play, based on my experience.

And yet the hammer never fell and RC is still alive. Meta is useless once the player in question knows how to game the expectations of others. I happen to have a townread on RC at the moment, but your reasoning is pure WIFOM.



Very reluctant to hammer without a claim; on the other hand, DDD's lack of claim does not look good. Could go either way...stay tuned!

[Aegor]

VOTE: DDD

If he had something to claim, he would have. Do not like this lynch at all, but I guess I am willing to roll the dice.

[Aegor]

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I would not make that assumption, because BC claimed he was being RBed. His power is verifiable by other means (i.e. not being RBed and NKing someone). But I do think that IV got a guilty result on someone.

The phrasing of that confirms BC is town.

What do you mean?

VOTE: DDD
I'm curious, is there a possibility that beast is SK?

Lynches for today: DC or cxinlee. DDD is clearly town.

[Aegor]

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1) As I said in my post, BC's vig claim is verifiable. IV may have decided to go with the obvious suspect, or he may have decided to not spend his investigation on someone whose claim was verifiable. IV may have received a guilty result last night, when he was NKed. I honestly have no idea why would you ignore that scenario or assume that I was talking about any other scenario, given how obvious it is.

2) You are more than welcome to ISO me to find why I think both cxinlee and DC are scummy; let me know if you have questions about my reasons.

[Aegor]

...IVE GOT THAT OFF-BLACK
CADILLAC MIDNIGHT DRIVE.

Please let us know your thoughts on the game so far. Quoting bad rap songs does not count.

[Aegor]

VOTE: cxinlee

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A) I never said that we did not need to evaluate BC, as I am sure you know. I was simply speculating about what the Cop did by using the reasoning that I would have gone through were I a 1-shot cop. That has nothing to do with whether we should accept BC's claim.

B) No, given that you yourself opened the door by asking whether IV had a guilty result on BC. If he actually had received a guilty result N1, he would certainly have come forward Day 2. There would be absolutely no reason to make a 1-1 trade because he was a 1-shot and turned into a VT after his investigation. Given his death post, I assume he got a guilty result N2.

C) It is good enough. The problem is that you are lazy and confrontational. I have already done the work. I would suggest making more of an effort given the number of players who want you dead.

[Aegor]

See my responses to DDD about why I am voting you. I re-read yesterday's game day and realized I was losing perspective and that there was a non-negligible chance that GS was really, really dumb town.

[Aegor]

Your next post better have meaty content otherwise I am voting you and not moving my vote until you are dead.

[Aegor]

VOTE: ~Jordan`

[Aegor]

I asked you if you could be an SK, and you said yes.

Aegor, can you be specific about which part of your iso we should look?

180ff. and 313 in particular.

[Aegor]

Yes. RBing (normally) affects any night action. For example, kills, saves, investigations, etc. Passive abilities like 1-shot Bulletproof are RB-immune.

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Because you realize it is your responsibility to read the posts in this thread and not the responsibility of the other players to repeat themselves because you want to expend as little effort as possible?

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Because you realize it is your responsibility to read the posts in this thread and not the responsibility of the other players to repeat themselves because you want to expend as little effort as possible?

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If you were actually reading the game posts, you would have noticed that I answered your question in post 585. Soooooooooo... you fail.

[Aegor]

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k. I never said that my posts would convince you. I only said that my cases on those two players existed and were in my ISO. Sorry you do not like good lynches.

I am literally not defensive at all and your inability to read the gamestate leaves me with no alternative.

Dayvig shot at BeastCharizard

Wut?

[Aegor]

Am I missing something? How are 1-shot cops not part of the C9++ setup?

[Aegor]

maximum is one per game
the other one is deaddd

Totally forgot about IV. Still not willing to lynch RC, who is obnoxious but probably town.

[Aegor]

k. Then vote me.

[Aegor]

VOTE: BoroPhil

Forgot he was playing and then ISOd him. Post 444 and following are especially terrible.

RC lynch makes no sense. Dude is obviously town and even if he is a VI, he should be a compromise lynch at best.

[Aegor]

This game is lagging hella. Will probably post tonight.

[Aegor]

Okay. A few notes:

No one is a strong townread. RC is the strongest townread based on meta; his play here is perfectly consistent with the other games of his I have seen wherein he is town. That does not make him useful. DDD is a weak townread.

This game suffers from a huge lack of scumhunting and is generally a lurkfest (from which I am not exempt).

We have only one lynch so far. I think my lynchpool at the moment is cxinlee, Jordan, BoroPhil, and DC. We have a week, though, so I really want to hear from BoroPhil and Jordan especially about their thoughts on the game. No one-line post thoughts; substantial thoughts on other players.

[Aegor]

Please explain the townread on BoroPhil. As in what actions seemed town v. null.

[Aegor]

So you refuse to vote for someone because he is voting someone you

think

is scum? The only reason you think he is town is complete speculation?

[Aegor]

It is not complete. Your entire argument for his towniness is that he is voting someone who MAY be scum. That is not an argument. If DDD were conftown this discussion would be different.

You still have not explained why BoroPhil is not scum.

[Aegor]

k. Use this opportunity to build a case on another player.

[Aegor]

Finally.
VOTE: Drake

[Aegor]

Aegor, the pile of my questions you keep ignoring is getting out of hand.

I am sorry that you think that. I believe you asked whether we could do better than BoroPhil. I would rather lynch Drake or cxinlee. It looks like DC is finally possible. If you consider that better, then I suppose we can do better.

That was your freebie. Start posting substance and you will get more answers.

[Aegor]

Aegor, you never push lynches. Ever. You move your votes, yeah. You even provide reasons for them. But despite these plethora of votes and reads, it's hard to find in this last game you actually tried to get a lynch. For someone so opinionative, that's suspicious.

I do not push lynches. I make my cases and go from there. If they take off, great. If no one listens, I at least try to make other wagons productive and vote or not vote them. I do not have infinite mental stamina to expend repeating myself if no one is interested in reading my posts or responding to them. I have encouraged other players to make a case, as I have. No one has. I cannot even respond to substance since there is none there.

And the fact that I have not pushed lynches is to my credit given this game's track record.

[Aegor]

He has contributed nothing. That is a pretty awesome explanation given that we are on Day 3. And you continue to avoid commitment to any lynch and have not even committed to a read.

[Aegor]

pretty strongly wanted Klick dead in Micro 279

Either Klick or I was dead. And there was a wagon on Klick. So pretty much what I said.

[Aegor]

This is the most stubborn and uncoordinated town I have ever been in. Can we please come to some sort of consensus?

Everyone, post the names of every player you would be willing to lynch today.

My list (in alphabetical order):

BoroPhil
cxinlee
Drake
Jordan

[Aegor]

Mod: Sure

[Aegor]

Why should we lynch the only living claimed PR?

[Aegor]

Why should we lynch the only living claimed PR?

Because the other real PR's are not going to speak up and be killed over night.
Why would they speak up ?

You did not answer my question.

[Aegor]

How did I not answer it in my earlier posts?
I do not believe his claim. I do not feel what he is posting is town. Therefore I find that he is scumlike.

You have NOT answered it. How do you justify taking the risk of lynching a PR, even if you feel he is lying? You have zero strong scumreads among the other players?

[Aegor]

Tomorrow could be lylo so I am fine with that.

[Aegor]

Scum win ? I think so.

What?

But, none of those will ever garner the votes needed. I would like to push a boro lynch just from his game play. However, BC posts are smelling like scum and with the false claim you can't go wrong.

Not true. Boro had as many votes as you not too long ago. I would be fine lynching him as well.

Becuase I do not believe he is a PR. What risk would I take If I do not feel he is a PR?

Unless he is

mod-confirmed

scum, you surely admit the possibility that he is a PR, even if you find the alternative more likely. Thus you are taking a risk.

It would be another townie lynch , which I doubt it will come to that. He is playing like scum and I just don't see why he is living even with his claims. If we lynch a power role then he would of fooled me. I just don't see it. It would give a look into possible alignment since that would make 2 pr's this game. However, I see him more as a scum then a town regardless.

At this point, lynching for information is a terrible idea. And he would not be a townie if he is being RBed and we lynched the RBer. He is probably being kept alive as a mislynch. And it is working.

[Aegor]

I am fine with a BoroPhil lynch. I plan to vote him tomorrow; I definitely do not want another no lynch.

[Aegor]

I think beast is a Vig.

[Aegor]

I intend to hammer BoroPhil. Will do so tonight, probably.

[Aegor]

interesting Drake that you jump from the person I'm voting for to me.

Scum are clearly all over this game - beast thinks scum want him dead so they can stop roleblocking him - that makes no sense - surely scum would be more than happy to RB him til the end? He's not the vig.

Of course the mafia would to RB him indefinitely until he is mislynched.

People voting for BC right now are so badddd.

But the idea that Boro and Drake are both top wagons and both voting for the same counterwagon is ridiculous. I need this to be clear to everyone for tomorrow:

Boro and Drake are not both scum.

I'm going to

vote Drake

though.

Deflection much?


VOTE: BoroPhil

[Aegor]

BC, you said that the Drake vote on Boro felt like a bus vote. Will you be willing to hammer Boro?

[Aegor]

Do you think me and Aegor make sense?

I can answer that on behalf of anyone: yes, it makes sense, if you are not actually a Vig.

No opinion change. Not willing to hammer borophil.

Gun sell me on Boro scum please.

Pretty sure Boro is already dead. I cannot tell whether this is oblivious or just carefully and obnoxiously constructed.

[Aegor]

Also, we massclaim tomorrow not today, unless a cop claim wants to guilty someone.

That makes no sense. We should massclaim the day before a day that could be lylo. That would be today. We want to restrict potential scum fakeclaims and narrow down options. Today is the right day; earlier, as GS was pushing, involves outing PRs prematurely.

[Aegor]

RC: who should claim next? Your turn. If you do not answer, I will just claim, so take advantage of this opportunity.

[Aegor]

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His claim is "refused to claim." He has forfeited his right to claim ever. Believe me, he is not getting away with anything. My townread on RC is disappearing rapidly.

[Aegor]

I think you were plenty specific. There is just nothing that we can do to force RC to claim except threaten death. Even that may not work, knowing RC. So if he is reading this thread, he now knows his options: claim truly or risk death.

[Aegor]

RC needs to get back here.

[Aegor]

k. BC's turn.

[Aegor]

I no longer know what is going on.

Claims, as far as I know:

DC: VT
BC: Some sort of Vig
RC: VT

BC clarifies his role and then picks someone else.

[Aegor]

DC: VT
BC: Full Vig
RC: VT
Gunslinger: VT
DDD: VT
Aegor: VT

DeasVail is next.

[Aegor]

Drake should respond before we proceed.

[Aegor]

I have only the most rudimentary understanding of what is going on.

It seems to me that the most productive thing to do is to ask these two questions to everyone:

1) Do you believe BC's Vig claim?
2) Do you believe Jordan's Cop claim?

Everyone: go

My answers:

1) Yes.
2) Meh; idk. I hate mylo claims but I will need to think about this for a few days. The timing bothers me and it could be a way to expedite a scum victory, but it hardly seems worth it for scum to gambit so unnecessarily. Of course, we could always no lynch, but some people seem bloodthirsty. And if Jordan is scum, we still are just postponing the inevitable anyway.

[Aegor]

Aegor does not. I feel that he has rigged the results to protect one of his scum partners.

What? How does that make any sense? I actually do not even know what you mean.

[Aegor]

So...we have all of the claims. We are waiting for RC's input. It seems like the consensus is that if we believe Jordan's claim, we should lynch today. Is that correct?

[Aegor]

Jordan may damn well be right, but I've used many of the same tactics to pressure as scum to win. So yeah, I don't like it. Do I think it's false, I'm uncertain. Yeah, I am totally fenceshitting but you just don't vote in Mylo unless you have a confirmed scum.

This is essentially lylo. A No Lynch today with a block on Jordan tonight, assuming both beast and Jordan are town, could result in a loss by the end of the night. I am not sure why I should forfeit the ability to affect the outcome instead of making tons of assumptions and optimizing expected value.

[Aegor]

That depends. If we No Lynch, will you Vig tonight? If yes, then there is no way I am going to forfeit a town consensus in the hope that you will shoot correctly.

[Aegor]

In other words, I fail to see how a desire to reach a consensus involving all town members rather than hoping you shoot straight is anti-town.

[Aegor]

If we lynch today, Drake is my top choice.

[Aegor]

This was just sad all around. I guess we wait for the flip.

[Aegor]

This lynch, I mean. It just happened abruptly and too early. Badbadbad. DV should feel bad.

[Aegor]

What's done is done.

VOTE: Drake in case something is off. We will see what tonight brings. Who are you vigging, BC?

[Aegor]

I will try not to take it personally.

[Aegor]

wh00t

[Aegor]

Yeah; he said he was having access issues, so I imagine if he could be here, he would be.

[Aegor]

Why would anyone doubt BC's claim? It was very obviously true. lol

[Aegor]

Yep; I definitely got sloppy with my voting record.

[Aegor]

I am willing. If neither Jordan nor DV objects soon, I will post it.