Open 528: The Room of DOOM! GAME OVER

[Hiraki]

AIGHT FUCKAS

dis is my first game back and I'm ready to nail down some scumlords

[Hiraki]

Did you really vote and then unvote immediately? I get that you were joking, but it could have been just a RV. "it's better than NOTHING"

So are you complaining or are you commenting on the action for the sake of commenting?

RVS is RVS. It has no significance until someone tries to take advantage of it and cut the day off with a mislynch that it holds any actual reads on people, which as also useful for finding chainsaws.

This implies that a D1 lynch cannot be a scumlynch. RVS doesn't have any significance until RVS ends. It doesn't have 0 significance.

If we lynched people for promoting lynches that were in cause of RVS, then I guarantee that 99% of all games would be scum wins. People can be mistaken. It does not have an alignment toward being town or scum.

That being said, you are definitely able to tell if someone has bad or good intentions through their posts, that's why he have scumtells and towntells. However, saying that any information will not be important, and especially in the context you are twisting it in, his highly fallible.

I read about RQS, and became very interested in it, so I think ill try it out here:
This a question to all of you, awnser however you want to.

You read up about it, eh? I can't say I like it or dislike it but that doesn't mean I don't have a decent understanding of it.

Like the mafia tactic to seem busy when giving out these questions but never actually answering them. I hope you do answer them in the next four pages though or else my vote will probably go here.

Our odds as town aren't that great at first I have to say. Each person assuredly has 4/11 chance to lynch a scum today. Admittedly it's not THAT bad as that's just over a third.

At this point, I'm doubting myself. I'm not sure if this is newbie talk but I'm definitely willing to nudge that to the side.

So I have another question: with two mafia factions, does that mean we essentially have two kills per night? If that's true then God this should be interesting.

Correct. Unless they target the same person.

VOTE: Skelda
I like bandwagons.

The second vote is a bandwagon? Let's get serious here guys.

Yes, there are two kills a night, but I suppose there is a chance of both factions choosing the same person, in which case there will just be one death I guess? Unless the second faction to choose is told that person is already dead, but I doubt that somehow. I've never played a game with two Mafias before. And I mean, odds of hitting a scum a Day 1 are better than the odds in an average game, since we have 4 scum, while most games with a single faction of similar sizes only have 2 or 3. Why did you feel the need to even bring up the odds, if we have decent town players this will not turn into a numbers game.

Best newbie in awhile. Welcome aboard.

And since we are asking random questions, I suppose I'll try that as well. Do you all think it would be logical for the Masons to all claim Day 1 and why or why not? Also, under what circumstances do you think Masons should claim in this setup?

That question isn't necessarily random.

I need to look up about this one. I hope we didn't do anything rash in between this time and then though.

I like cats! They're awesome.

Horrible.

So if I did this...

VOTE: Skelda

...you would like it?

If YamiNoKira is scum, then JKLM is scum. The inverse works correctly as well.

This is mainly based off of these two buddying posts and only focusing on Skelda, who just happens to be JKLM's target at the moment, and not discussing anything that Dessew stated.

Now, then... hello, Brian Skies! Fancy meeting you here.

Why did you say this?

And then this happened. Damn it Dessew!

Huh? Really?

I like this BW better. Tell me what you think of it, phokdapolees.

VOTE: Dessew

Getting horrible!

Then what's the point of your vote? And I've already given an explanetion.

This is good and basically puts Dessew in the townpile.

I don't feel like dessew has really done anything scummy. Yet. Well except

Eh

Oh, yeah. That thing, right. How could I forgot? Explain this.

The way you said that you didn't know about scum seemed like you were distancing yourself and scum. It reminds me of saying, "If we try to think like scum..." when you are scum and know how to think like yourself.

Contextually, this is good thinking but the statement itself doesn't parallel this thinking as much as you are believing, in my opinion. He was already voting you. The point of his post was that he liked more votes on his target. That's not scummy, that's just a reassuring factor that other people may go along with your thinking or they don't like the person that you don't like. Either way, it's not scummy.

And JKLM, like you are doing more to get the game started. I don't care if it has been a day or a week since Day started, I like my vote to be on people I find scummy, and if the instant I vote for someone you act like we are causing a huge scene and try to stop it when all we are doing is generating discussion, what is the point of you? The more we fight, even if it is over nothing, the more we know about where loyalties lie. I doubt a town ever won without a little argument or two, so shut up and find something useful to do or we'll lynch you. That is all.

When I die, follow this man.

Oh come on dont pull te stupid policy thing on me skelda.

Yet he's not even voting you or even administered a drop of suspicion on you. He's just asking you to stop fucking around and start playing the game or we'll make you get out (i.e. instead of doing a modkill, we lynch you). A bit hasty on page 2 but I'm OK with it.

I never said we shouldn't argue this entire game, that's stupid.

Stopping any discussion is scummy, no matter the circumstances.

But as far as I see it this argument looks like its going nowhere fast. At least for now.

The argument on Page 2? The one that barely has 10 posts? Didn't you just say that a small amount of the game has posted so far? So they can't comment about it because you're being a little pantsy about it?

I'm more concerned with why you even bring up the idea of a threat of a policy lunch on PAGE 2. We have 2 weeks. Policy lunches have their place but NOT THIS EARLY.

It's not a policy lynch. I really hope you two don't argue about this for pages on end and I sincerely hope that you drop it since I have faith that based Skelda has already done so.

You're not making a Scene and its not the argument that's te problem it's the fact that it sounds very dead settness on each other to me.

Idk how to put it, it rubs me all kind of wrong.

It's a very common thing for newbscum.

That's all you have to say? I know we just started, but really? Nothing else?

People do this all the time. There's no reason to comment on this (I even just skipped it) because there's nothing there.

If by Page 4 this is the same shit we're getting from Saki, then sure. Let's bring it up then.

So... what's the point of this vote? You just wanna bw but not lynch? *reads next post* Yeah, that. Kinda.

Is there something wrong with being uncertain?

Of course it wouldn't but I don't need to be threatened,

2 people saying they want to policy lynch you for fooling around shouldn't be a threat. It should be a wake-up call since these are the only two people here right now, so I presume (I'm not checking time stamps)

It seems oddly reminiscent to me as both of them don't seem particularly town, but idk.

Reasons.

Looking back I guess I shouldn't have been so antsy about it. It still rubs me all kind of wrong.

Reasons.

If I'm going to be completely transparent (which I usually am) I guess I just felt so jarred that we already were debating who to wagon and the legitimacy of a scum read just as page 1 ends. It's nothing big but it's a different tempo than I'm used to.

And do you think being transparent will help anyone?

You aren't really allowed to use the newb card here, that was better left in the newb games themselves. If you want or need help, just read the wiki over once or twice. It really does help get pas those learning stages. But let's just void that newb card Kay? I don't favor that argument for very long but I always give it one chance at the very least.

This game isn't like you beat the tutorial and now you're a pro. Please don't tell me you think that. You're incoming from this year and you reek of newbiness. Reek.

Other than that from the small amount said you do seem to come off to me as town motivation, but it's too early to tell.

Reasons, please.

I don't really know what to say to you other than I don't feel good, but it's only been a page so i wont jump to conclusions. But as of now it's not very townish to me. Yet.

But you've said the same thing about Skelda, basically. Except he's a little townier.

Absent from this first list is: Phokdapolees, YamiNoKira (figures!), and Brian Skies. (I don't mind that Saki is absent at this point) Hey kiddos. I've never tried this but let's have fun! I'm going to vote Skelda and I want to say that most of the people who call me out for it are town. I don't expect most of the idiots to get to this point. I'm really just looking for the lurkers. If you're a good lurker, you win!

Not gonna vote cause its too early for my liking, I'd rather have most others start posting in this thread. Seriously: if anything scum might be sitting back and just laughing while we create paranoia among ourselves (unless one of us is scum, then oh well but it's too early to tell). The point is I don't want things going until EVERYONEs on this thread, so we have more logical reasoning behind everything.

You're posting this on Page 2 and are already trying to act like a leader. You're definitely my top choice today.

Not to mention, why would you comment on things if you actually held this theory dear?

If you've never played with Saki before, then you probably wouldn't understand.

Don't answer for other people, please. I understand that it's not a question that will crack the case but don't do it regardless. Commenting on them are good.

We just went over why you voted for dessew, so what changed in your read? Details please.

It really isn't that hard to see why Skelda would vote Dessew.

Can you answer that alt question as well?

This has nothing to do with RVS; I've already said I have no issue with the post itself. However, there was more that could have been commented on, and the one post that player made ignored what happened so far and made absolutely no attempt on trying to contribute (outside of RVS).

You posted this 6 hours after Saki posted and before half of the game has posted. Can you stop being this butthurt over a few posts? It'll actually help, as much as that seems like a hardhit criticism.

Dessew hasn't posted in a while, and so there is no real reason Dessew became less suspicious other than JK becoming more suspicious and, the fact that I don't picture them as scum together, from what they've posted so far. I dislike how you are forcing me into a box where there is no evidence because it is page 2.

Based newbie, don't make me hop on this as well. You had an alibi.

@Brian Skies

Okay, I get that. I would still like -Kubbs- to contribute more than RVS, especially at that point when there was at least something -Kubbs- could have commented on.

@Skelda

I think you're misunderstanding the purpose of my questioning. ...I also think I'm looking for more reasoning than there is. I can accept that you're not as concerned with Dessew now that someone else has come along.

► P-Edit: Yeah, I get it.

---

Now then...

-Kubbs-:

Made one post unrelated to anything in the thread so far. Not very helpful, but not alignment-related, either.

Brian Skies:

Town. Explains his thoughts on various topics and not afraid to confront me. I'm slightly curious about his defense of -Kubbs-'s post, but I have no reason to believe it is scum-motivated at this point.

Dessew:

26 showed thoughts along the same line as mine, but I still have no idea what he meant in 19. Definitely needs to be more involved in this conversation.

phokdapolees:

Needs to comment on what's happened since his last post.

Skelda:

Town. Despite my questioning, he has responded well and is still trying to contribute to the game elsewhere (as in providing reads of other people).

Claim hydra heads now please.

For the umpteenth time, Dessew is not not a scum read, just less of a scumread now that JK came along. My goodness!

We're asking for the reason why. Based newbie, you're slipping.

Yeah, sure, all of them should breadcrumb, so scum can easily find all of them...

Masons should be breadcrumbing. That is essential right now. Scum/Werewolves are probably doing it now too (if they're smart and lucky).

Never announce that you're pressuring somebody, it's stupid. Also, I don't see why would JKLM act so indecisive as scum. And you initially mention lynching him, but doesn't call him scummy, but later you correct yourself that you meant voting. If there're some votes on him, then what? And now he's your top scumread, because he's voting his top scumread. This is my case.

"I don't know about scum, but...": I wanted to be a little theatrical.

I like Kira, he's asikng a lot, and then states, too. Not afraid to get engaged with players, very enthusiastic. He's making a really big deal out of activity. It's okay that you want to use all our time until deadline, but calling out somebody only because he made only one post (his RV) in the first 24 hours of the game is way more than necessary. What past experience do you have with mafia?

This is fantastic...what changed?

I know Yami from Epic Mafia, and he's one of the main reasons I joined this game. I wanted to vote him in the RVS stage but what I quoted came off as scummy to me.

I joined an EM game.

Oh great.

Sorry, I didn't specify. I meant: please explain why you found the quoted part so scummy that you didn't RV as you initially intented.
Also, if you know Kira from EpicMafia, then what did you ask this?:

@Yami: Are you an alt account? Do you play on other forums?

I grant you the title of based Newbie (stripped from Skelda for being fake)

To avoid having to give clear reads that can be used against him later? It's fine if he's indecisive, but using that as an excuse to not give clear reads (even after being called out on it) is not okay.

Let's play, Follow the Logic.

If he thinks that he's indecisive, then Dessew thinks he isn't scum.

Now, after looking at JKLM's posts, do you think that he's indecisive? (Yes!)

So do you think that Dessew probably thinks that he is indecisive? (Yes!)

What does that mean folks?

Dessew probably thinks that JKLM isn't scum! Logic!

Okay, I went too far. I felt that since I had found something game-related to talk about (setup theory and Dessew's bw), just posting an RVS post and ignoring all of the game-related content was something to be called out on. Admittedly, it was still page 1 and nothing at that point really required anyone to respond to it.

Ugh. Why is Yami getting townier and townier?

68, by Stubbs (Stubbs), is good.

Page one or page 30, there was legitimate discussion, which you promptly ignored.

Yet, even Yami said he was over-reacting. You're reaching out for air, Skelda.

That isn't fair. Those were taken out of context. In the second I was trying to explain the first's admittedly poor wording after you all attacked me because of it. I've given my explanation for this many times and I'm getting tired of repeating myself.

Kill him. You've repeated that you've switched voting and it's NBD. We're telling you that it is a big deal.

but its not like I have much to say.

You have an absolute shitload to explain.

Metaphors are not a good way to argue anything. At all. In fact Im pretty sure it's similar to a particular logical phallacy which name I can no remember. Although I do see your point skelda, don't use metaphors. It's bad debate skills. Metaphors often come off as purposely misleading in general, so I don't really favor them at all. Your use was kind of fine but it still bothers me in general.

Remember the whole, you're not really experience yet? You're not really experienced yet and please don't act like you do. Something that

you

do not favor will not effect the entirety of the game. In fact, this post is pretty pretentious so good job on you for that.

I forgot who said it but someone mentioned what was the point of my Mutley vote if I didn't exactly favor RVS it was a joke as it was the first page. Please note that I literally unvoted in the same post. With broken tags of course, idk what I was thinking.

As much as I don't care about this, this isn't the point of the question.

I get better, I promise you.

I urge you to replace out. I'm really not in the mood for cellphone posts unless they're good. I've seen good cellphone posts. I've made good cellphone posts (though it sucks). I want actual content and right now you need more than the minimum and you're giving less than the minimum.

As for Yami, I play EpicMafia with him sometimes, but I don't know anything about him other than that. His current play-style betrays the idea of him being a player who has never played on a forum (or some other medium that's not EpicMafia) before.

Is this the first time you've played with him here?

I know it takes away from the pacing to ask a question but, what are the major benefits of being a hydra, as well as downsides? I just want Roget an understanding.

Please don't do this. You're the one who told other people to look at the Wiki. I need some legit content from you fast. I'm sure that the next page will be roars toward you about not answering things (I sincerely hope).

Yes I do think that scum very much like cutting off RVS, but it's only a conjecture, especially in a rival mafia setup. Essentially it's VERY easy for scum to act pro town as well because they essentially ARE hunting down the opposing mafia (or werewolves, I'm not sure how mafias and werewolves are opposites but whateves).

So, basically it holds no credence here. Good to know.

That being said my weakness is my mouth, as I shouldn't make every speculation known, otherwise the reasoning becomes circular. Or I guess WIFOM. I think I used that term correctly.

Or, as I believe, you just don't have good/any reasoning and that's why you're being hushhush.

After 79, the original scum bond that I paired JKLM and Yami with is now severly weakened. If JKLM flips scum and I have no other real leads, Yami will be my first target. In addition, Yami flipping scum has no deterrence on JKLM's faction (nor do I want Yami dead).

I'm not opposed to Lynch all (Active) Lurkers.

It's still only Day 3 of the game.

Yes and you find me scummy, because...?

This is good and I would enjoy an answer from Brian Skies.

For your point on me trying to look town: unlike you I'm trying to address concerns of people rather than ignore them.

Oh shut the fuck up.

da list:

Skelda

-Leaning Scum

Dessew

-Based Townie

JKLM

-Scum

Mutley

-Null

Phok

-Null

-Kubbs-

- Town

YamiNoKira

-Town

Blue Bonnet

-Null

Saki

-Null

Metal Sonic

-Null

Vote: Skelda

[Hiraki]

Also, I definitely do not like the post about grasping at straws, simply because doesn't it help the town to keep everyone talking and try to get people to reveal themselves? How does that hurt us, bringing up little things that are likely of no significance?

You're going to have to identify what portion of my post you're talking about here.

What? Why are you concerned with JKLM not answering his RQS question?

Two-fold. A) It shows that he's just making himself busy. B) It shows that there is actually no reason for the RQS, since he didn't answer it.

If it's an RQS and he knows the "correct" responses, then where's his correct response? Not that it matters anymore since he's going out.

That's not buddying. That's me jumping on a BW to see how phokdapolees reacted.

But meanwhile, you've said nothing negative about JKLM at this time and were much more friendly to him than anyone else in the game. It's not a huge thing going as of now but it's notable if a flip occurs on JKLM.

What?

Are you telling me that you made ISO 11 and ISO 12?

True. (Assuming you meant Page 3.)

I meant Day 3 of the game starting (as in not the game day) but same difference.

Hopefully if JK's replacement is town he/she will prove him/herself as such, since this does not change my JK suspicion particularly.

My vote is definitely staying here.

[Hiraki]

I see, though I'm not sure that's particularly scum-motivated.

It's definitely not town-aligned.

...what? I'm definitely not a hydra.

Okay...

Tbh, I don't understand the people who refuse to RVS, but his vote&unvote made even less sense.

You don't even think it could've made a little bit of a joke from previous experiences?

[Hiraki]

This was the post was referring to.

How is that grasping at straws? Yami admitted that he was over-reacting to one post before you posted that.

[Hiraki]

I'm not sure that's even alignment-relevant.

It's anti-town which is null or scummy at best which means it's relevant.

[Hiraki]

Looking busy is something that scum like to do. To confirm that he's looking busy and not just actually trying something neato, there'd have to be a reason for the RQS (never given) and he would need to answer his own question.

P.S. The RQS had nothing going for it. It's almost always a scum tactic.

[Hiraki]

People inflect their voice in there writing differently when lying through their teeth (unless they are a skilled editor and go thrrough each post diligently).

What's your favorite Pet and why?

Because you easily tell if someone is lying about liking a pet.

[Hiraki]

I am very concerned with the state of activity in this game (not from us but from everyone else)

[Hiraki]

At the moment, pretty well.

[Hiraki]

Now. It seems that it is still in the early stages in the game, so I am going to have to formulate some reads.
Unfortunately, this will mean that a majority of the players are Null, as there are no significant happenings or events as of yet.

I am going to put Stubbs and Mutley pre-emptively in my town pile because I WANT THEM TO BE TOWN.

If they really are town, they will be great assets towards our goal and we 3 will lead the town to victory.

So basically you haven't read any of the game and you being prodded just means you just needed to post this?

You realize that a prod is there for a reason and not to just get you to post absolute shit, right?

[Hiraki]

This game has 6 pages, read them and post your reads.

There's no way you can't have no reads or literally anything important to say,

That goes for everyone who has been lacking.

[Hiraki]

I hope there is more to come, no?

[Hiraki]

A 2 letter first post and then a random vote on the town as fuck hiraki, it's hysterical that you have the gull to call me scum.

You are scum. You don't need to write more.

Doesn't this look like scum panicking "oh shit someone came in and pegged me who the fuck is this guy"

Not really.

Lmfao you aren't even TRYING to engage in a 1v1. I'm perfectly ready to, but that doesn't mean I won't push your lynch hard as fuck. And now, you're misrepping saying I'm not.

And now you're coming up with bullshit reasons.

You're definately scum, I'm debating Hiraki still.

You are dumb town.

[Hiraki]

That's pretty harsh Hiraki. notscience just potentially found us some scum.

notscience has pushed words into Red's mouth all the way to market.

The reason why Red is scum has absolutely nothing to do with notscience's investigation.

Instead, it lies in the core of three details.

1) Red does indeed have the option to post more (aka he was pressured and talked but just asking him to talk more won't do anything)

2) Red pulls a completely hypocritical move by calling BlueBonnet out for having a "2 letter first post", fails to introduce why we should care that this happened, and then goes accusatory on the idea that placing a

random

vote on me is bad because he thought I was town.

First off, it's self-explanatory how having a "2 letter first post" is hypocritical. His first post was a few days into the game and his first assessment of the game was two days ago.

Second off, Red fails to say why it's bad to have a two letter first post. This sort of ties in with the first point that he never realized that he was being super hypocritical here but is worth mentioning because stating something and giving nothing to back it up is not a good idea.

Third off, Red finds something wrong with putting a random vote on someone that he thinks is townie and forgets the definition of townie. By that standard, it just looks like Red doesn't understand what he just said.

Fourth, and the biggest one, he thought I was town. I don't have a huge problem with Red's read list (excluding the enormous lack of information and content) except for me.

Pushing skeld town. Scumteam or mason? Investing a lot for town which is town. After all the skeld town stuff he votes him lol.

Yet, you never even thought for a second to question whether or not I was town after 180'ing on my Skelda read?

Here's what I'm going to need to even think about changing my read. Full in-depth reviews of why X is town and Y is scum, and they better not contradict what you have already posted.

Otherwise, I'm changing my vote.

[Hiraki]

Because it's not in a scummy way.

[Hiraki]

(after 20 minutes of writings 5 sentences)

If it takes you five minutes to write five sentences, you will still lose a 1 v/s 1.

MetalSonic, please explain your reads. I can make lists too, it's really not that hard. Making lists and not showing where your reason comes into that list is lazy and helps no one.

[Hiraki]

1. Pushing cases via semantics

It'd be great if you could emphasize what points you're talking about because then I'd be able to respond to them, as I've been trying to do.

2."notscience has pushed words into Red's mouth all the way to market."

I can't believe I actually have to demonstrate this but okay.

Doesn't this look like scum panicking "oh shit someone came in and pegged me who the fuck is this guy"

Pushing thoughts point 1.

And this, he trieds to equate content to scumhunting ability while ultimately ignoring my points. "Oh you have two posts lol u suck nub"

While noting that he has ignored Notscience's points, which is a good point in itself if he was just exclusively ignoring notscience and just not playing the game, this is pushing the idea that he is doing this just to notscience in the same post where he questions that Notscience is in this game. This is pushing words and ideas point 2. Red did not ignore notscience for the point of exclusively ignoring notscience but because he has barely addressed the game in and out.

Also, his reaction was extremely over the roof towards a naked vote that the person it was on had not even responded yet.

This is blatant pushing. I would've given the same reaction if someone randomly joined the game without giving previous notification why they were posting.

183 is completely fine. I have no greivances with it. In fact, I agree. Red is just not keeping up with the game and is not giving a damn to do it either. That is not scum or town inclined either. That's just bad playing.

"How could anyone consider this person to be scum"

Is not a townie thought.

This, however, is pushing.

He's doing EVERYTHING in the scum-caught book.

"I'm not doing it, you are!"

"Um who is this guy"

"Ugh my life sox coz people found out im scumz"

Because the scum-caught book is definite and he's completely following the code of these thoughts. Post hoc anyone?

I love how you scumslipped and now are whining about it

He did not scumslip in any way, form, or fashion.

The nulls had less posts than one of his biggest scumreads.

I'm not saying that I agree with this premise but the point in fact that post count is somehow addressing how you read people as town and scum in this game is pretty horrible.

His townreads were very buddy-like.

And his scumreads were shit.

I'm trying to engage him in a 1v1 and he has yet to vote me or push Yami.

Also known as: I don't like these things so let me complain about them but micmic how badly in context that he's doing and just try to make myself look better :):)

what ever i'll refresh the reads list at around like... page 17 or so?

If you're going to sit behind and not do anything until Page 17, I will request the mod to replace you. Your posting is completely unacceptable. If you don't have the time or the want to play this game, then I suggest you think if you actually have that want and time and leave quickly if you have a doubt about it.

Hiraki could clear things up about his Skelda-read, to.

You're going to have to address specific issues you have.

I like MS's case on Hiraki, it's logical. He doesn't over-emphasise it, though, actually says that his read can change.

But yet he explained none of it and threw out scary words for someone who would be scared. Do you really find any basis on MS' case for anyone to follow it? There's no reason to. If you want someone to do something, then you have to give reason for those people to do so.

[Hiraki]

Forcing words down peoples throat is something EVERYONE does.

If you're not going to address something because I'm against you in an argument, I'll be sure to blacklist you the next time I even check up on a game. It's absolutely absurd and rude to say anything of this sort.

And no, it's not. You don't see anyone accusing me of this? Why are you the only who is accused of this? It's quite simple. You're the only one who's actually been doing it.

[Hiraki]

Can you counter my arguments then and tell me what's going on?

Calling me out for doing things isn't worth it unless you tell me what I'm doing wrong exactly.

[Hiraki]

he doesn't stick to his reads, he's flexible.

This is not a town thought.

[Hiraki]

I'm in complete assurance that your scumtells and towntells are absolute bullshit so please, be sure to just give me that giant towntell now.

[Hiraki]

Correct, and that is how I interpret it. What's your point?

Pushing, yes, but reasonable (in this particular case).

There is no reasonable pushing. Pushing is misrep.

And now you are just being hypocritical.[/quote[ Huh?

[Hiraki]

Skelda, I've been caught as scum for not being a scumspect.

And you seriously wonder why you're in the dumb town pile?

[Hiraki]

I'll make note to never play with Viera again because his playstyle is to not play at all.

[Hiraki]

I'll make note to never play with Viera again because his playstyle is to not play at all.

You try being me.

Oh no! You have a busy schedule and you signed up for a game that requires

time.

Maybe you made a mistake?

Do you have any particular reason to interpret it like this, other than thinking Dessew isn't town?

No, you are misunderstanding what I mean. I am saying that what Dessew is saying doesn't contribute to someone being town not Dessew himself isn't town.

You accused notscience of "pushing words down peoples throat" (in ns's words), but twisting his words and giving them a negative connotation is no better than what you are accusing ns of.

If I'm twisting what NS is saying then I implore you to tell me where I've twisted the meaning because I'm pretty sure I didn't.

sorry hiraki i'll write the case tmr

i was super busy today


and its actually <work> so yeah dont expect me to rush it in a day

Yup, sure. Etc. etc.

Unvote, Vote: VieraAssassin

[Hiraki]

but not at the moment

[Hiraki]

As for VA, there is nothing alignment indicative and lynching him doesn't give us any information. I'm willing to let him slide for the first day because that's what he wants, but if he keeps it up, I will push a policy lynch on him.

D1 is the best day to do a lurker lynch. D2 might lead to a scum faction victory.

[Hiraki]

But you're willing to go for policy on D2 because...?

[Hiraki]

You're still not getting the point that you're contradicting yourself.

[Hiraki]

In the biggest self-contradiction in the whole of this game: "This is not a town thought" is pushing.

This is my opinion and you have every right to disagree with it. I'm not pushing anything. I'm saying that "(I think) This is not a town thought." Pushing, on the other hand, would be putting words in someone elses mouth. Those words are from me and are my opinions. There is absolutely no possible way I could be pushing unless I am now bipolar.

hypocritical to the max

Saying the same words in a different situation is not doing the same exact thing. Find where Red said these exact words:

"How could anyone consider this person to be scum"

The point is that Red never phrased it that way. He was just saying that I was one of his town reads, admittedly in an odd way, but he didn't say that I had to be a town read for everyone else. Having a emotional response and then being pushed on it, because emotional responses almost always look bad and can be manipulated by town or scum, is pushing because notscience is performing that said manipulation (i.e. you could twist it into thinking that he meant that he thought that everyone should think I was town which again is just a thought and isn't scummy). He's doing it as town but anyone can still manipulate in order to fulfill their own agenda.

He calls notscience out for saying Red's posts are bullshit; yet Hiraki himself calls my posts bullshit.

No, I called out Notscience for pushing words into Red's mouth. I do think the reasoning that notscience uses is pretty much bullshit though yeah. I never said his posts were bullshit. Meanwhile, you've been delaying this post(s) for a few days now. That's something to question whether or not it'll come. That being said, this is pretty disappointing for a case.

There's more. He contradicts himself when he calls red "you're scum. you don't have to write more."; in his next post bashes notscience for calling Red scum.

What's your point? I can't have a scumread on a person who also has a scumread? Not only is that highly illogical but that's hysterically illogical considering this is a mutli-ball setup and Notscience could be on a different scumfaction that Red. Not only that but Notscience could be bussing Red just to get town credit and making a case that would work under normal circumstances isn't a bad attempt (assuming they're both scum here of course).

Pause for a moment if you will:

The good part comes in his meaty posts

However, all of the posts that you've quoted from me (201, 256, 278, 276) only one of them consists of an actual meaty post.

Not to mention, now that I've done that digging done, I'm going to call you out for your post manipulation. See here kiddies, watch and learn!

Is there any reason why you have blue text in those posts?

Could it be that you separated some of my posts to make your case look stronger to other people? 201 and 256 both come up twice but they skip a few posts before coming back. Is there any reason for this other than post manipulation? My bet's on no.

I haven't even written my explanation on why "being hypocritical is scummy" or "which scumtells he has displayed in my scum-catching book" yet, all I have just proven is that Hiraki self-contradicts and displays "scummy behaviour" as defined from his own "scumtell book".

Oh, don't worry. Not only did I completely disprove you here, as in you found common words through them at the poster board and hoped they made a collage, but get ready for the firing squad.

The proof lies herin:

@4th point, how the hell does thinking that you're town makes him scummy? That makes 0% sense whatsoever.

The quote was to support the claim. I know

now

that you were just looking for petty words to incriminate me and that's without bringing forward my own evidence without the support of this post.

At the end, this wasn't a case and I expect more later because finding some posts like that out of the blue isn't very good. But here's the fun part.

town

Notscience
Brian Skies
Skelda
Me a-duh

not town yet but if they were town it would be really good

Mutley
Kubbs
Vierra??

Scumz

Reledelphic
Hiraki



The rest null


according to math that makes 3 null(6 if you consider the "not town yet" part)

By

this post

you nailed me as scum. Please explain why.

(But Hiraki! He just posted a huge post--)

The precipice of your case lied at the point where I said "This is not a town thought" at post 276.

I want to know why you thought I was scum before that point in time. Taking a post that was meant to inform Yami, and not just help newbies, is taking a post out of context (haha, what a coincidence! How could Metal Sonic do that???) and having one post for a scumtell is absolutely awful.

So, I want more details please. Why did you think I was scum before Post 246, please and thank you. There will be no dancing here. You don't have feet to stand on.

[Hiraki]

EWBOP: I didn't really understand how to respond to his remarks on 225, which is before 246 to be fair, so I didn't include them in my big post. But now I understand that Metal Sonic edited my part out.

Metal Sonic: In the future, do

not

edit my posts in a manner that makes it look like I wrote those things. ESPECIALLY, DO NOT edit my post in order to put your words in it, bold or not bold.

I'm OK with commentary in bold. I am NOT OK with what you did. Especially in the third-off part. It was highly inappropriate.

[Hiraki]

My point was that you called notscience out for the above post, including the words "This is not a townie thought". That was notscience's opinion on what he interpreted red's post to be. Yet, you post the exact same words later? Pardon me, but I find this highly hypocritical considering that apart from notscience's tendency to repeat and miscontrue(as you claim) red's words based on his own opinion, you post the exact same abrasive phrases as he.

But your point is an incorrect view of the situation. That's what I was getting at.

Just because we said the same words doesn't mean that we have the same meaning.

I agree that Red never phrased it that way. Question is: So what?

So what? That's the basis of Notscience's point there. He thinks that and I think this? How could you just play it off as a so what? I was addressing that he was wrong and furthermore it was pushing words into his mouth. That sole claim wasn't the only point I had you know. I didn't just say "notscience did one bad thing and therefore he's done it waaaaayyyy too many times." He did it almost every time in that post(s) except for maybe twice, if my memory serves me correctly.

So isn't that an emotional response that you capitalise on as well?

No? I'm looking at the whole statement while Notscience focused on the "town as fuck" part. When I examined that particular phrase further on, I didn't talk about how he said it. Notscience did talk about that. What I said was a completely different subject matter (how/why could he think I was town?) I absolutely did not take an emotional role into my assessment and if you feel that I did I would expect you to quote where I did it and explain how I did it. Again, you're doing the same thing here. Throwing words at a poster and hoping they'll form a collage. The problem is that it's not working.

What I mean is that what Notscience was doing was to input his own intepretation of what Red was saying, and comment on it. If you find that scummy... well, you've done it too.

For like the fifth time now, I do not think the thought was scummy. People can think and can write down their thoughts in the thread, that's fine. But when the thought manipulates the thought of another person, i.e. what Notscience did, then that thought can be considered scummy. You're trying to make it so that I'm saying that all thoughts are scummy which is absolutely not the case.

"Pushing words into Red's mouth" is not valid anymore; in lieu of the nugget I found above.

I'm glad you're able to explain it but it's so obvious that you don't need to?

However, you didn't state that in the previous posts and I had no way to figure out that that was your intention.

Huh? I wasn't even thinking of factions right now. I'm just looking at reads. I would be OK with finding someone who I think is scum that also thinks my other scumread is scum. Haven't you heard of bussing? I mean, really?

I consider those relatively meaty.

I'm glad relatively was used in this scenario.

To highlight the similarities in the blue posts I quoted. I'm sorry for not being clear.

Right, OK. Totally believing this.

Remember my initial statements for "scumreading" you? The fact that you were "arguing based on semantics"?

You do realize that in order to find scum you absolutely need to understand the terminology of other players in order to realize that they're slipping rather than I(you) think you're slipping because it doesn't work with my standards of communication that you could make that statement and be town?

This is a perfect example: in no way do the above two questions show that I am scum, nor does the line of questioning elicit a specific alignment-indicative tell from me; more of discrediting my case than proving me scum, which should be the goal.

I don't think you're scum. You're leaning dumb town at this point. That being said, I'm not here to figure out your alignment yet. I'm satisfied with two scumreads. If I find something that piques my interest, I'll bring it up. So far, I have been discrediting your in case in my viewpoint. Since you are stubborn, and I know this now and it's regardless from alignment, I know you will never cease trying to find me as scum. So eventually I'll just "give-up." Not yet though.

And you're not going to tell me that my reads are bullshit, because that's ad hominem and is not a valid argument.

Woah, huh? Are you planning out what you think I'm going to say? Not only is that pretty dumb but that's actually scummy.

That was a question. Answer my question. Instead of posting snarky bullshit.

No, that's seriously it. The quote right after that should explain it. You just didn't read the entire post and now it's completely clear. Sorry to embarrass you but it's the truth.

And, in response to Post 251, what did I say?

1. Pushing cases via semantics

It'd be great if you could emphasize what points you're talking about because then I'd be able to respond to them, as I've been trying to do.

Oh right, yeah. I did say this but I

totally

regret it now because I know you're just picking and choosing posts to take out-of-context.

Uh yeah take a chill pill this is a game

For the purposes of this game, noted.

And

now

you're on my shitlist. Fuck off.

[Hiraki]

So, your point is that Notscience is wrong and it is miscontruing Red's words; did I understand you correctly?

Correct. I have actually made a mistake and would like to rescind the statement that Notscience is scum. That was a mistake due to me doing a bit of fast thinking. Technically, in this scenario and if notscience was someone else, I would think he is dumb. Due to meta and in-game reasons, I think he is just being dumb town but for the purposes of explaining these ideas are one and the same.

(Just to clarify one more time, I do

not

think Notscience is scum. I think he is dumb town but there's is only a minute difference between the two.)

Town can be wrong. Town can manipulate phrases.

Good, I'm glad you're learning. Now, let's take the next step. If scum can do everything that town can do, disregarding power roles and such, then how do we tell who is scum and who is town? It's by how they do things. In this scenario, Notscience has picked out every single post and found wrong with just about everything with Red's play. I'm not saying that Red is infallible but picking apart everything in his post is scummy.

And before you say "but town can do it", that's why Notscience is in the dumb town pile. Because I don't see him pulling off this form of manipulation.

9 words. Describing an obviously emotional statement; and concluding he is scum. Explain this for me.

The emotional aspect of his post is not the entirety of the post. The important part that notscience sees is "town as fuck." This is the emotional aspect. There's nothing emotional about "A 2 letter first post" or "gull to call me scum."

I see the entire phrase and that's why I took it apart.

My intepretation is that scum tend to discredit a case by harping on the semantic aspects of it instead of rebutting the main points. You showed behaviour of this in quite a few of your previous posts, therefore it pinged.

Sure but if you're just going to take things out-of-context then you'll just get a grab bag of town and scum. You were just looking for the same words, don't deny it.

Just to clarify again, who are your two scumreads? Red and who?

I apologize again for being a bit daft then. It's Viera and Red. Not Notscience. It's easier to call him scum than dumb town.

No. I meant if you called my scumreads "bullshit" once more I would have put you on my shit list.

Considering you've only explained me to satisfaction, I'm still pretty content to call them bullshit.

You're too abrasive.

I don't care what you say about me anymore.

[Hiraki]

How many people are you reading as "dumb town" right now?

Just notscience.

This stood out to me as going to far... especially when you say "And before you say "but town can do it"[...]", which say different things but the intention behind them are similar (to preempt a specific response).

Predicting someone's next question and someone's next move are two very different things.

[Hiraki]

That looks like feigned scumhunting.

You can't be serious.

[Hiraki]

I hope you're going to give a bit more later.

Au contraire.

Paschendale alt confirmed then. You haven't improved at all. You've gotten much worse than what I remember. I'm going to label you as dumbtown and kind of sort of just ignore you for the rest of the game.

[Hiraki]

Unvote, Vote: Skelda

[Hiraki]

Anyone who's sensible should blacklist notscience for just being an overall douche.

We understand who you think is scum, you've said it at least 3 times this page. That is the last time I will address him this game and he'll quote this with a "scumcaught" thing.

[Hiraki]

I would like an extension.

12 hours isn't much though. Can we have 24?

[Hiraki]

Skelda didn't claim. Extension isn't needed.

[Hiraki]

still not claiming

[Hiraki]

...dessew was scum.

Fuck, that was fantastic. Major props.

Debating the idea of masons claiming and I am super for it. Right now I have a 1/8 shot (everyone does) of guessing right. Meanwhile, if masons claim and there is no CC (which there shouldn't be) that would decrease the odds to 1/5.

Any objections?

[Hiraki]

Let's play a game.

I'm a mason.

If I'm false, then a Mason and his three cohorts should come out and play. Either I'm a trolling town (not likely) or scum (more likely).

Why am I claiming? Figure it out yourself. No, seriously. I want 0 talk about Masons after this. The only way this can fail is if the scum target me and a Mason bud. Then I'd still be a mason claim and we should still have one mislynch. GG, I/we win.

That being said, let's make this fast.

Vote: Redelphic

If I die tonight, my next targets would be:
VieraAssassin
Luigi

And anyone who discusses this claim after this post is scum. Don't even care if it's the tiniest detail. Don't care where they are on my books. (n.b. Don't twist this. It's just for today.)

[Hiraki]

Fuck that. I'm not letting this happen.

Unvote, Vote: VieraAssassin

[Hiraki]

Does Viera look like a partner to Dessew or Skelda though?

Viera looks like scum.

[Hiraki]

>has a leading wagon
>does a prod dodge

Unvote, Vote: Red

VA dies tomorrow though. No exceptions.

[Hiraki]

Still makes little to no difference about my previous statement.

[Hiraki]

@Hiraki: Are you going to make a case for Red, or are you just going to twiddle your thumbs and threaten all prod dodgers with a lynch?

He was one of my top scumreads yesterday.

[Hiraki]

I don't understand what we are doing, at the beginning of the day didn't we decide the masons were going to claim?

This is scum searching right here. And he obviously hasn't been reading.

[Hiraki]

That vote count just isn't right.

[Hiraki]

No.

This is VA.

Vote: VieraAssassin

[Hiraki]

I'm unsure about my reads, I'd maybe go with a VA lynch. I though if MS was scu, he would've just found a major "towntell" for Hiraki, so yes, he's most likely town. I'm losing certainity in my Skelda-read, though.

Dessew knew that VA wouldn't die.

[Hiraki]

This is easy guys.

My mason buds will claim tomorrow when/if I die.

We kill VA today.

[Hiraki]

Mod: Can you update the alive/dead list?

[Hiraki]

2) VA because Hiraki says so

notscience dies tomorrow, if there is a tomorrow. I can confirm that he is not a mason.

The case on VA relies on the idea that he was inactive for most of the game. This is bad for three reasons.

A) Lurkers on LYLO.
B) Reads are currently unreliable because he can't post more than four lines.
C) Overall willingness to be helpful anyway.

He's garbage. He might be God's gift to mafia but he sure doesn't get the social interaction portion.

That being said, the connection to Dessew is critical enough for me to warrant a want for a lynch.

[Hiraki]

He's garbage. He might be God's gift to mafia but he sure doesn't get the social interaction portion.

PL, amirite

At this point, yes.

[Hiraki]

Tell the scum who not to kill in our townbloc why don't you

Because telling one person that another person isn't scum is really helpful.

[Hiraki]

notscience do you ever make any sense?

[Hiraki]

Props for Dessew. Make sure to blacklist VA/Saki.