Open 470: Cat's Eye (Masons and Mafia)

[Cheery Dog]

/doesn't confirm

VOTE: Venrob for being the only person that's replace out of a game that I've also been in.
and a [b[FoS OM[/b] for doing the above but in a hydra.

[Cheery Dog]

Speak English you damn potato!

[Cheery Dog]

but for now
VOTE: Hyperion
last to show up diescumdie

Obv lying scum, you're the second last to show up.
UNVOTE: VOTE: hyperion

[Cheery Dog]

Discussion was already happening, the started end to rvs wasn't needed.

[Cheery Dog]

You never cease to confuse the fuck out of me cheery. I have no idea why you would latch onto this "last to show up" thing to rvs, ignoring everything else thats going on, when a better argument is that he self voted which denies us interactions :/

I haven't decided what to make of the other discussions yet. (which mean if I ever do it will only be to refer back to them later when we're in a different stage of the game, now of those current wagoning reasons sound good enough to join yet.

[Cheery Dog]

What's not good enough to join about Venmar's townie point appeal and defenses only valid from his point of view?

What's to say they're not valid from my point of view as well?

[Cheery Dog]

Is it possible to ever get valid defences before the end of the game in that case?

[Cheery Dog]

Look, I'm not here to argue semantics, just look at Venmar's attack and you'll see he's implying that my attack is bad because he's town.

I wouldn't actually say you've got the best attack going on either. I believe his reasons for voting Reverend instead of Venrob are valid, I wouldn't have stayed on my RVS wagon if there were votes joining it because someone else said something about it. (I left it anyway)

[Cheery Dog]

Someone call me scummy so I can feel more motivated.

This post has scum motivation behind it, it's like you want to be accused of something crap so you can gain town points for a good defence.

VOTE: Bitmap

(did I do it right?)

[Cheery Dog]

He's only got 2 completed town games, so you never know

[Cheery Dog]

Agreed. If your town, you shouldn't strain to try and get brownie points.

That's odd, because I don't actually believe it has that much scum motivation behind his post, I actually find it null because some town to get motivated by being pressured. (and I find that the case for myself as well if I'm low on motivation for a game) It seemed like something better to comment on than his continuation of RVS with voting you for being 4th or somewhere on the wagon.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dannflor

[Cheery Dog]

K... Well it seemed odd to me. If you're town you shouldn't need to strain to get brownie points and do things to attempt to "look" town, if your scum you need to worry about these things to be considered a town player.

While yes, you shouldn't strain, I don't actually know if that was his plan or not.

I actually think I'm obvious town compared to my other two recent plays of this setup. And now that I've said that, it doesn't apply.

Your last two plays of this setup where you were obviously town, you were actually scum right? At least you were in the 7p versions. Does that mean you're actually scum here as well?

[Cheery Dog]

It took so long for this game to start that I almost forgot about it.

You were in the queue thread getting whiskers to start the game an hour before the pms were sent out, how did you manage to forget it in that hour?

[Cheery Dog]

Have you expereinced this "memory loss" issue about setups before? (especially when you had already shown you knew the amount of scum was different from normal 13 player games)
#31 & 33 ("forgetting" happens in #60 & #66 a mere two hours later)
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Om

[Cheery Dog]

Yes I have I'm seriously not good with memory unless I'm paying full attention to things. Venmar had taken my full attention and I had basically lost memory of everything else.

I went researching your open games and found two occasions where you claimed previously to have forgotten the setup you've been playing in (383 and 397); these both happened after a new day started and I saw no mention of you actually knowing the setup beforehand. (though you only had 3 posts in 397 since you had just replaced in). There were also mentions of you forgetting to read the thread/vote/scumhunt, but those are different than a set-up you're playing.

Cheery, what are your thoughts on Venmar and Dann?

Dann's probscum after jumping on my fake reasoning I used after bitmap asked for some to be motivated.
I believe venmar's alignment can be found via Om, if Om is scum then venmar is town, possibly vice-versa, but I'm not entirely sure about it currently.

[Cheery Dog]

Seriously, this shit is nothing new for me and the fact that this is the only thing you seem to be voting on right now is not looking good at all.

Then do other stuff so I have better reasons to be voting you then. Currently all I have about you is that you think venmar is scum because of the bounce back to your orginial attack of him and then this apparent forgetting of the setup.
I just don't like that as a defence, when my post before your 60 makes it much more interesting to look at as to why you asked the question.

[Cheery Dog]

@Mod replace me

The only reason I wanted to play this game was Whiskers as a mod.

Why would use go with crap excuses like this, it's bloody obvious you're replacing out because you don't like being attacked in this fashion. (and I don't care if you want to blame it on your ADHD either, sign up for games you want to partake in, not just because you believe they have good mods, when you replace out it just makes the mod more annoyed)

[Cheery Dog]

oh just checked my role pm... Now i have to say om is town....

Unvote

hehe....

Why does your role pm make you have to say that?

>No activity for 2 hours

Note to mod: it WAS in a spoiler [trollface]

What was the point of this post? Why should anyone care about a small gap like 2 hours in the conversation?

because it has nothing to do with playstyle. Masons should not make lists on page 3 or whatever page it was. Town shouldnt be 'confident' anyone else is town for reasons so weak that theyre changed after a single vote. Mafia have plenty of reason to do so though.

Can you explain why mafia would have reason do such a thing?

Looking at those links DoubleJD just posted, the #106 statement about only scum wanting townreads on themselves explained doesn't fit into logic for me. You're telling me, scum who want to look as town as possible, want to discredit town reads given on them and town who don't actually care about being lynched as much just except any town read given to them and move on even if from their point of view it's a crap reason for someone to have a town read on them?
(I've done ignored and attacked town reads placed on me as both alignments, so I fail to see how it is even a tell)

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery doesn't do bad humour? Venrob got replaced before the time limit, this is his attempt at being funny. And I think his 193 is a lame attempt to confuse the scum. You're confused are you? Maybe you're scum trying to push him to explain further.

I have experience with venrob being scum, I'm seeing if he is likely to react the same way. (though based on how he acted before he had his role, that's probably actually null, but I felt like trying to see what happens)

[Cheery Dog]

Im also very suspicious of venrob, cheery, and JF too. Cheery tried to break my argument on ven, Venrob posted nonsense around it and voted venmar's initial attacker Om, and JF just isnt here at all.

I was seeing how strong it actually was, when I hadn't read through the links you posted yet, and then I looked through the links and left the question there as I don't think through my thoughts again after I've written them and moved onto the next post to comment on. (a effect that happens a lot more when I have to catch up on lots of posts I would have commented on if I were not busy elsewhere at the time)

I was also going to attack his case on you, but trying to understand the level of crap to actually have it make sense and not just more crap was too hard)

[Cheery Dog]

Don't like this post by CD. Lining up lynches.

Does that matter when at least one of them is scum?
At that stage I had leaning scum reads on both of them, with the edge going onto Om, however I didn't think both were scum.

So any votes that late in the wagon are totally irrelevant?

They're as relevant as any other votes on the wagon, I would also say that if it was a L-1 vote by a buddy with reasoning of sheeping, then he would know he is toast.
Though greygnarl's L-2 vote is about the same. (and my last paragraph though I never changed my vote)

Still going to work off my own reads and not move into trying to find association tells.
VOTE: havingfitz

[Cheery Dog]

You also have to take into account that I didn't read the game at all after p2. Those were my first impressions. Then I saw the flip of Venmar which changed my read on DJD.

You linked stuff from after page 2, so how are we meant to teahouse you had only read up to there?

Cool, that wasn't just aimed at you. I'm trying to be crytic so my role is constantly questioned by scum.

don't try to be cryptic, that will just ruin hire other town that may our may not know your alignment will read you instead of reading your normal self.

Based of reading when marten shot in om's 7p micro, we can't know if he shot venrob our not, but I have a town read of him. (being stupid town, but town nonetheless)

And why do you people keep having to make me review

[Cheery Dog]

I should stop trying to write walks on my phone, I can never access what I've written at the bottom of the posts if I accidentally misclick and scroll the reply box up.
Anyway the part word in the above post was meant to be revote.

VOTE: havingfitz

P-edit; post above the above post.

[Cheery Dog]

Our actual p-edits would be that I didn't join either of those wagons because I wasn't convinced of their individual scumminesses, and had I voted them I would just have been sheeping.

[Cheery Dog]

I skipped out on the context (and the start if your replace catch up post)

So I don't know why I was taking about that, but anyway, whether a person reads when they replace in is up to the person and the length of the game.

Your reaction to my question that I should have read more context surrounding what I was questioning, means you're still high up my town reads list

[Cheery Dog]

I'm shooting people as fast as I can!

McStab was mainly chainsawing Om, his attack on Dann is on a different level which I believe is possibly bussing.

[Cheery Dog]

Still awaiting CD's answer from earlier with a comment I made towards him regarding Venrob.

The one I answered before you posted it? (eww who let me spell McStab's name that badly on my phone)

Based of reading when mcstab shot in om's 7p micro, we can't know if he shot venrob our not, but I have a town read of [Venrob]. (being stupid town, but town nonetheless)

I'm not seeing the same thing I saw when Venrob was scum in newbie 1276 (though since he replaced out of there it's a bit hard to tell), however he does look like the Venrob I saw when I went researching his previous newbie game before that during that game. (which he was also replaced out of, so it's not 100% reliable)

btw I'm still shooting everyone as much as I can and will continue to do so even after I'm dead if I die

[Cheery Dog]

It would have hit you as a ninja post, so you missing it isn't that bad. (plus I did just change my own quote so it made more sense for those not me)
Though you responded to the other part of my post, so maybe it is bad after all.
(but then I didn't notice part of an earlier pot when making that post, so I'm equally bad, plus it didn't actually answer the question, just stated my read, and then again the posted you asked me about I'd already in that post dismissed that information.
and then the circle repeats and people reading this post just get confused.

[Cheery Dog]

An Update to the rules has been made!

1.b) Players may not continue to shoot everybody as much as they can even after they are dead if they die.

But it will remain to be true, you're no fun. (but I'll stop telling everyone that's what I'm doing)

[Cheery Dog]

I possibly should have done this earlier (but I didn't since I'm not actually V/LA until probably 12 hours time I guess it doesn't matter when I'm still going to be able to post here at some stages during it.

V/LA until the 28th

[Cheery Dog]

That's a weird argument. It only works if CD is scum. Otherwise there is zero motivation for him to suddenly be cleared.

Are you accusing me of being scum with someone clearing me for no shoots having gone out?
If so, which person?

UNVOTE: VOTE: Johnny
Just making sure I remember you're in this game.

[Cheery Dog]

UNVOTE: VOTE: Johnny
Just making sure I remember you're in this game.

I don't understand

I don't have any sort of read on you at this stage you haven't really been active, I'm therefore forgetting your here.

@DJD, I have more than just three town reads. (you, Mala, grey, venrob and rev)

[Cheery Dog]

@cheery dog: Who do you think is scum?

I had Dannflor/havingfitz as scum, but with all of my town reads now calling him out, I'm reviewing that situation (well at least will be when I'm off V/LA)
I'll also be looking at their seemingly apparent scum reads of you and Bitmap.
Not sure what to make of Hyperion yet, in the same boat as Johnny, but I can at least remember something he has done.

[Cheery Dog]

Calling me out on not paying attention to who the flipped had been attacking.
I wrote thinking about myself and not how it actually flowed for others.

[Cheery Dog]

VOTE: cheery
read johnny's post.

I seriously hope I'm right with my read of you, you've been sheeping people like crazy.

@fitz, reviewing my post on a computer instead of the phone where I posted earlier, I actually meant that my town reads were all calling you town.
I failed to look through the rest of my own post and managed to think I was explaining my thoughts in a different fashion. (same result, but this option is what I meant to type)

@Mala, since I haven't got around to reviewing the thread yet, fitz's slot would still be my biggest personal scumread, but that' based on information that isn't up to date.
Johnny is possible scum by PoE, but otherwise still null.

[Cheery Dog]

Aww I'm the only dead town
But had I been scum (and had the same reads I had as a VT), they would have been at least one dead mason, I saw grey's sheeping as something coming from someone who knew more of the setup than I did, looked into it and decided it was more likely he was a mason. (may have had something to do with the 2 scum flips)
When I unvoted fitz, based on the responses received by people, I'd also placed him as a mason, which then linked him to Mala. - I was needing to reread that to check that dannflor's actions were actually because he was a mason, pity I went onto a different mason (who after sheeping DJD's reasoning on me, was quite possible one, but I left my vote there as I also needed to check him.
I did have earlier possible masons reads of Rev and DJD though, but those slowly moved into just obvtown reads instead.

Excluding my first three votes, I only votes masons though, which means I was going after the wrong set of people that knew others alignments (I believe I would have noticed this had I not been lynched and actually had time to read back through the thread properly, but I was lynched after I decided to go to bed and deal with this game in the morning. (don't you know that location: Australia means I'm not going to be on during the time you had the countdown going, Venrob? - that was like 2-5am for me, and I went to bed at midnight.)
Though it turns out my skim reads of the few ISOs before I went to bed would have been correct, but I didn't feel it was really be listening to myself but rather other people. (I looked though fitz, Johnny, Bitmap and Melmond - Melmond was the only one that looked possible scum then, but I didn't feel up to changing my vote based on skimming when I was near lynch myself, weak reasons would have just been discarded and I was growing tired that I wasn't going to pull out slightly stronger reasons.)

[Cheery Dog]

@Whiskers, why did you stop me from softclaiming town by saying I was shooting as much as I could (aka none)?

[Cheery Dog]

So why didn't anyone think I was a mason?

Masons don't need encouragement to get into the game.