Open 395: Carbon-14 (Game Over-Scum Victory)

[Moneybags]

AY GUYS.

VOTE: TvK

For not confirming yet.

[Moneybags]

VOTE: TvK for voting me.

[Moneybags]

Woah. Why is someone at L-1 already?
UNVOTE:
Cause we're out of RVS I guess.

[Moneybags]

I don't see why he got put up at L-1 so fast >.<
Not that I think scum would of hammered, but you never know. Someone could of troll hammered. I've had that happen to me before.

[Moneybags]

[Moneybags]

LV, I don't think Chrimi has done a whole lot to be called scummy yet. RVS can be used to find scum, but I don't think him saying you already had a vote on you when you didn't is what should make him scum.

Emp, on the other hand, has my attention. Why did you put him at L-1 so soon? Were you joke bandwagoning, or what?

[Moneybags]

Yeah well at least we can agree that Emp and Chrimi aren't partners. I highly doubt Emp would put Chrimi at L-1

But I seriously don't think there's enough to go off of. I mean, we're only on page 3.

Elmo, why did you vote him?

[Moneybags]

AAAAAAAAAAHUFGHKEFEFYEGF.

SOMEONE GET CHRIMI OFF L-1.

KTHX.

[Moneybags]

I'm thinking there's scum between LS and Emp. They are continuing to keep their vote on Chimri waiting for a misslynch.
I think the other scum might be TvP. Unless he's been V/LA too. I don't think a LS/Emp team is very likely

[Moneybags]

Ok, so glad we're off that wagon. A quicklynch 4 pages in would not of been cool >.>

Chirmi, who do you think is scum? Any ideas?

[Moneybags]

1. Yes it is So is my name

2. To be honest I agree. For TvK to be as quiet as he was and then show up and 'parrot everything', I wouldn't mind a TvK lynch either. Emp has been rather quiet too. Lets wait for everyone to get off of V/LA before we make a final decision though.

LS, what do you think of TvK?

[Moneybags]

I haven't played with him enough to know. If that's what you think then I guess we can let this "slide" until he does something else scummy enough =/

[Moneybags]

Why would Emp be bussing his partner by leaving him at L-1 though? That makes no sense =/
I'm sort of neutral on Emp now.

[Moneybags]

I'm honestly a little torn. Emp is kinda scummy but I really don't think he'd let his partner be at L-1 twice.
I don't think Elmo is scum either. He seems really pro-town.
I think I'll be willing to vote TvK soon. I think I'll read over everything first though.

[Moneybags]

Yeah... I'm good with this.

VOTE: TvK

[Moneybags]

I know. I thought about it and I'm much more comfortable with this than with Chirmi.
TvK you want to claim?

[Moneybags]

Om, really? I voted TvK because I'm comfterible with the lynch. And if I'm scum for sitting on the sidelines then what's TvK?
I'd still like to see a claim out of TvK =/

[Moneybags]

Everything exploded o_o

I think Elmo's townish.
I don't even know what to think about Emp or LS.
I'm still for a TvK lynch. And I still don't see a claim from him.
Chrimi wanting to hammer before TvK claimed isn't good.

I don't know much else besides that right now.

[Moneybags]

Chrimi declaring intent to hammer without a claim is quite bad too, now that I think about it. He's falling out of my good graces.

Made me laugh.

I would only claim once somebody declares a hammer. That's why I declared, so we could get a claim out of him.

Since when did people claim when they were at L-1 but nobody had declared an intent?

Yeah this makes sense.

Also I do not support this Elmo voting =/

[Moneybags]

Elmo just has this town-ness. And your case isn't really cutting it.
I don't quite think that makes Om scum just for that though. What else made you vote him Chrimi?

[Moneybags]

@Om: Elmo is town because he's not scum. And by that I'm sayin he hasn't done anything scummy enough.
Also I've noticed we're pretty much evenly spread out vote wise. I know we have 7 RL days left, but in general who do we think the best lynch for today is?

[Moneybags]

I just seriously can't find Elmo to be scummy. Is that so hard to believe?

[Moneybags]

The primary thing is probably when I asked him to unvote Chrimi he did promptly. I don't see why scum would unvote.

Also where did TvK go? >.<

[Moneybags]

TvK is feeling more like a "lazy town". I think he would of been more active defending himself if he was scum.
UNVOTE:

Not quite sure who I suspect right now. LS and Elmo seem town. Tvk seems town but not too helpful.
This leaves Chirmi, Emp, and Om. I think I'll look into things a little more later.

[Moneybags]

So I was going through MB's meta to find a town game of his.
Here's one right here.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3446239
Newbie 1152, he replaced into a town slot (JK to be exact).

Now as you should be able to notice here he is a whole lot more wordy, and actually gives a shit about doing stuff. He isn't waiting on the sidelines and is being active in the discussion.

@LS: Is this enough to convince you?

Seriously? Look at the date on that. That's September. 9 MONTHS AGO.
Look at the games I've been in recently. It's the same posting stile I do here. Not only that but I believe that was my second game.

And to be honest I don't quite have any scum reads. In fact I have too many town reads. If it makes you feel better later today I'll go over the thread and ISO everyone.

[Moneybags]

Alright Om. I did some scumhunting.

Alright, kinda just glossed over the game, which in turn made me forget some of what I just read, but my gut reads shouldn't be affected by it.
In other words, UNVOTE: .

LS is super duper obv. town, and I share basically the same reads as him (except I'm leaning null-scum on Emp and null-town on Elmo). C'mon LS! Lets go buddy buddy and power through this game!

I wanna wagon TvK.
VOTE: TvK

TvK wagon. Alright

I don't find Moneybags very pro-town either, but I completely forgot why.

"Oh MB might be scum"

Wow, I was not expecting a TvK wagon that quickly, I still need to do my more thorough reread. I will UNVOTE: for now because I don't want a hammer while I reread again, but I will

FoS:TvK

so consider my vote on him.
@TvK: My reads were mainly gut, something about your posts felt scummy, plus you weren't very memorable and to me it felt like you blended into the background (which is a good position for scum to be in).

"Whoop! TvK has too many votes!

Alright, sudden reads change (shock horror).
TvK shouldn't be our lynch choice today. The sudden wagon makes me think he is town.
My current scum reads are Moneybags (who literally just hopped on the TvK wagon without thinking and has basically done nothing but sit on the sidelines all game), and Chrimi (his posts are terribad and I don't like it one bit. Also he seems to be taking advantage of the TvK wagon to try and score a potential mislynch).
I'm getting bad vibes from both Emp and Elmo now, it could possibly be the lack of anything really substantial coming from them though. Not too sure on that.

tl;dr TvK is town due to his wagon, Moneybags is scum because of it.
VOTE: Moneybags

Well, I'm scum now.

Hey Emp, do you wanna wagon Elmo instead?

Oh? So Elmo is a more acceptable wagon?

Okay, UNVOTE:
VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN

And there's the vote

At least Im generation discussion and putting people in awkward positions.

Wow this is so bad it's re-vote worthy.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN

Everything exploded o_o

I think Elmo's townish.
I don't even know what to think about Emp or LS.
I'm still for a TvK lynch. And I still don't see a claim from him.
Chrimi wanting to hammer before TvK claimed isn't good.

I don't know much else besides that right now.

Why is Elmo town? Why should TvK claim now that he's not at L-1?
This is a perfect example of Moneybags doing nothing but standing by waiting for a lynch. This is why we need to lynch him tomorrow.

What even is this.

Why is Elmo not dead yet? Also I'm still waiting on an explanation as to why he's town.

@Om: Elmo is town because he's not scum. And by that I'm sayin he hasn't done anything scummy enough.

Wow, just wow. He can't even fake a reason for Elmo being town. Sorry Elmo, I'm leaving you for a better life.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Moneybags
That post was the breaking point to Moneybags' scumminess. This will be my last votechange for this day, and I will stick by this vote no mater what. We will definitely lynch Moneybags today, and after this we lynch Elmo.
Get this wagon going now.

Again, you want a wagon. So basicly TvK gets going, and he hops off. Elmo wasn't going to work, so he hops on me. And he set up for it so he could even say "Oh I suspected him all along!"

So I was going through MB's meta to find a town game of his.
Here's one right here.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3446239
Newbie 1152, he replaced into a town slot (JK to be exact).

Now as you should be able to notice here he is a whole lot more wordy, and actually gives a shit about doing stuff. He isn't waiting on the sidelines and is being active in the discussion.

@LS: Is this enough to convince you?

I've already addressed this, but yeah. That's stretching it.

Lol waffles.

Wtf.

VOTE: Moneybags for not taking his vote off me even though I confirmed now.

Interesting. I know it's RVS but I felt this to be noteworthy.

TvK,

I could also have placed a vote on him, but I know I would get the same reactions as Elmo got when he put him on L-1.

You never mentioned this part in your reexplanation of your vote. Was it not important?

The only reactions Elmo got were from you saying that nobody could hammer and from MB who just said "pls unvote kthx".

Also, are your thoughts on everyone still the same that they were when you last mentioned it?

Yes. In fact, every morning I wake up, my thoughts about moneybags are confirmed even more. He still feels like wagoning me, but he still hasn't said why "he is still for a TvK lynch". Do you only want to get a claim from me?

LS, Elmo and Om I consider town. Chrimi and Emp are somewhere in between. I'm not too sure here.

Anyway Om, why should we postpone the moneybags lynch to tomorrow?

VOTE: Moneybags

This sort of speaks for itself no?

Also where did TvK go? >.<

Here I am.

Om really desperately wanted an Elmo lynch today, but the wagon he started didn't take off. Nobody was really convinced after the case he started. But Om absolutely didn't show any sign of changing his mind. The only lynch that he would see happening was an Elmo lynch.

And now suddenly he changed his vote. And it even is a vote that will stick (pretty much what he said about Elmo as well). My opinion on this is that Om's play is really confusing. I even asked him why he wouldn't vote MB today and then he said that MB was the lynch for tomorrow.

@LS: thoughts?

@TvK: Do you find Om's confusing play scummy?

At first I didn't really think it was scummy, but more like overeager town. Really trying hard to show everyone how scummy people are...

But I'm not sure what he's trying to do now. It is clear that he couldn't convince anyone with his Elmo case and after that not with his MB case as well. And then that meta he tried to show us.

To answer your question, he's moved to my sus list.

And a sprinkle of bussing in case the Om ship sinks.


I normally don't do a huge wall of ISOness, but I'm glad I did. I feel pretty strongly that it's Om and TvK.
VOTE: Om

[Moneybags]

What a lovely defense.

[Moneybags]

......
What questions have you asked me? Sorry if I missed any but I don't recall seeing any.
And I hate it when someone can just go "WELP, OMGUS!" and completely render a case useless. It shows there's no retort.
If I was OMGUS don't you think I would of been doing this a lot sooner? You've been voting me a couple days now.

PEDIT: Oh look a question. And to answer, by you trying to make me look scummy for pulling a case on you is a lot worse than me pulling the case in general. It's like "Oh guys, it's OMGUS. Oh guys, that's not even scummy. Look at how he's framing me!" I never once called you scum for first making a case on me.

[Moneybags]

EPWOP: Thanks Chirmi.

[Moneybags]

Chirmi, I already said I suspect TvK.

And I was wondering if my Avi was broken! I thought it was just this computer. Off to fix it.

[Moneybags]

... Chirmi has already been voting you. He didn't hop on the wagon.
Does anyone have an intent to hammer?

[Moneybags]

......
PEDIT: Oh look a question. And to answer, by you trying to make me look scummy for pulling a case on you is a lot worse than me pulling the case in general. It's like "Oh guys, it's OMGUS. Oh guys, that's not even scummy. Look at how he's framing me!" I never once called you scum for first making a case on me.

[Moneybags]

I'm going to bed.

[Moneybags]

I'm sorry. If laying out scummy quotes isn't enough for you, later today I'll lay them out again and add my personal opinion at to why they're scummy. I can't do this right now but it will come later today.

[Moneybags]

Ok, lets try this again. Comments are in bold.

Alright Om. I did some scumhunting.

Alright, kinda just glossed over the game, which in turn made me forget some of what I just read, but my gut reads shouldn't be affected by it.
In other words, UNVOTE: .

LS is super duper obv. town, and I share basically the same reads as him (except I'm leaning null-scum on Emp and null-town on Elmo). C'mon LS! Lets go buddy buddy and power through this game!

I wanna wagon TvK.
VOTE: TvK

TvK wagon. Alright

I think this is scummy because: See quote 3

I don't find Moneybags very pro-town either, but I completely forgot why.

"Oh MB might be scum"

I think this is scummy because: I looks like he's prepping to say "I fos'd him all along"

Wow, I was not expecting a TvK wagon that quickly, I still need to do my more thorough reread. I will UNVOTE: for now because I don't want a hammer while I reread again, but I will

FoS:TvK

so consider my vote on him.
@TvK: My reads were mainly gut, something about your posts felt scummy, plus you weren't very memorable and to me it felt like you blended into the background (which is a good position for scum to be in).

"Whoop! TvK has too many votes!"

I think this is scummy because: It looks like he's backing off of TvK because their possibly buddies

Alright, sudden reads change (shock horror).
TvK shouldn't be our lynch choice today. The sudden wagon makes me think he is town.
My current scum reads are Moneybags (who literally just hopped on the TvK wagon without thinking and has basically done nothing but sit on the sidelines all game), and Chrimi (his posts are terribad and I don't like it one bit. Also he seems to be taking advantage of the TvK wagon to try and score a potential mislynch).
I'm getting bad vibes from both Emp and Elmo now, it could possibly be the lack of anything really substantial coming from them though. Not too sure on that.

tl;dr TvK is town due to his wagon, Moneybags is scum because of it.
VOTE: Moneybags

Well, I'm scum now.

I think this is scummy because: He now says TvK is town, and I'm the scum instead. Taking the heat off his partner and on me

Hey Emp, do you wanna wagon Elmo instead?

Oh? So Elmo is a more acceptable wagon?

I think this is scummy because: It looks like he's taking the heat off of his partner still by moving it to Elmo this time

Okay, UNVOTE:
VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN

And there's the vote

At least Im generation discussion and putting people in awkward positions.

Wow this is so bad it's re-vote worthy.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN

Everything exploded o_o

I think Elmo's townish.
I don't even know what to think about Emp or LS.
I'm still for a TvK lynch. And I still don't see a claim from him.
Chrimi wanting to hammer before TvK claimed isn't good.

I don't know much else besides that right now.

Why is Elmo town? Why should TvK claim now that he's not at L-1?
This is a perfect example of Moneybags doing nothing but standing by waiting for a lynch. This is why we need to lynch him tomorrow.

What even is this.

I think this is scummy because: Now Elmo is townish? And I'm scum again. Elmo didn't work apparently.

Why is Elmo not dead yet? Also I'm still waiting on an explanation as to why he's town.

@Om: Elmo is town because he's not scum. And by that I'm sayin he hasn't done anything scummy enough.

Wow, just wow. He can't even fake a reason for Elmo being town. Sorry Elmo, I'm leaving you for a better life.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Moneybags
That post was the breaking point to Moneybags' scumminess. This will be my last votechange for this day, and I will stick by this vote no mater what. We will definitely lynch Moneybags today, and after this we lynch Elmo.
Get this wagon going now.

Again, you want a wagon. So basicly TvK gets going, and he hops off. Elmo wasn't going to work, so he hops on me. And he set up for it so he could even say "Oh I suspected him all along!"

I think this is scummy because: ^

So I was going through MB's meta to find a town game of his.
Here's one right here.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3446239
Newbie 1152, he replaced into a town slot (JK to be exact).

Now as you should be able to notice here he is a whole lot more wordy, and actually gives a shit about doing stuff. He isn't waiting on the sidelines and is being active in the discussion.

@LS: Is this enough to convince you?

I've already addressed this, but yeah. That's stretching it.

I think this is scummy because: He's stretching it to get a case on me

Lol waffles.

Wtf.

I think this is weird because: It has nothing to do with anything.

Is that better?

[Moneybags]

I don't see a Om/Chrimi team whatsoever. They're obviously not both scum.
And + towncred to Elmo. If he was scum why change wagons when you can keep on the one about to happen.

I honestly think Chirmi is town, and Om is just pushing the attention over to him. And I don't get why he would switch to TvK. I thought Om was a pretty obvious lynch for today.
I'm keeping my vote where it is.

[Moneybags]

Because towards the end of the day at L-1 with little time left I would stay away from my buddy.
If he seriously got himself there I would probably hammer. But it doesn't seem to matter at this point. What do we have left a day?

[Moneybags]

14 hours. That's less.

[Moneybags]

......
I don't even know what to think of this.
I will not be hammering Chirmi. I think a NL would be better than a misslynch.

[Moneybags]

If we seriously lynch the cop.
I will take a potato.
And shove it up my computer monitor.

[Moneybags]

Sorry I'm kind of V/LA. I have a couple games to catch up on and day just broke for 2 more. I'll try and be ready for things later tonight, but I just thought I'd let you all know now.

[Moneybags]

Also I'm fine with massclaiming.

[Moneybags]

It's obvious we have mafia and not wolves imo.

Wait this just set in.
Just because the cop died doesn't mean we have mafia 0_o. But then again the Seer hasn't outed with anything so it's possible.

[Moneybags]

You know I see no reason why I shouldn't just claim first.
I'm actually the Seer, and I got a not WW on Elmo. Which is why I was a little suspicious why he would assume there was maf.
And at this point everyone else is just a VT right? So I guess that's out of the way.

[Moneybags]

Wtf is this.

Did either of you two breadcrumb?

Not really =/ In the post where I said "The Seer hasn't outed, must not have report" I sort of 'set up' for a claim but then decided to just come out with it.

MB, why did you inspect Elmo? You constantly said he was townie throughout the day, the most recent time being here:

And + towncred to Elmo. If he was scum why change wagons when you can keep on the one about to happen.

Looking at this post...

Not quite sure who I suspect right now. LS and Elmo seem town. Tvk seems town but not too helpful.
This leaves

Chirmi,

Emp, and

Om.

I think I'll look into things a little more later.

(Color added by me)

I would think the most logical investigation for you would have been Emp, ya?

I know and I thought about it, and I wanted to get a clear today. For some reason it didn't occur to me that if we had Maf it wouldn't matter.

Anyways I like how TvK's selection was me. That's cool.

[Moneybags]

Oh yeah and VOTE: TvK

[Moneybags]

Sorry I'm lost. He counterclaims me and I vote him, which prompts a facepalm.
Why the facepalm?

[Moneybags]

Yeah I know >.< I realize that wasn't smart.

[Moneybags]

Also Elmo who would the Seer be then?

[Moneybags]

I know if we have maf it doesn't matter, but to have TvK say "Oh guys, I checked the guy who claimed my role!" is a classic scum move. The only thing is he claims to have not WW on me just because he knows we have maf.

[Moneybags]

I know but it seems too convenient for me =/

[Moneybags]

Sorry, more life V/LA stuff. I've been trying to keep up. I should be back to regular Mafia maintenance in a few days.

As for everything I'm not quite sure right now. I haven't been able to ISO TvK yet so I don't really have anything solid on him other than I've had an odd feeling about him (which is often right with me aside from Om =/) and that he's cc'd me. I'll try and work up a response to his walls.

I wasn't expecting a cc and I haven't been in LYLO sense my first game. So I'll try not to totally blow this =/

[Moneybags]

I've just fos'd him a lot D1. As in the early vote, matching him as Om's buddy (despite the fact Om actually flipped town), etc. And I know that can look like "HAY GUIEZ, SEE I FOSED HIM ALL ALONG!" But what are the chances that I've had this feeling, and then he cc's me. It's just one of those things you know?

[Moneybags]

I'm not too sure, but by a matter of elimination I think it'd be Emp. I'm sort of 'whatever' on him but you seem town and Elmo seems town. So I'd have to say it's those two.

[Moneybags]

Well if I'm wrong about either of them town just lost.

[Moneybags]

Well LS is confirmed town. Glad to see that.
I'd just like to see a post from Elmo now.

PEDIT: There he is. Awesome.
So then it's Emp and Tvk.

And @LS: I don't really know, but by putting me at L-1 it left room for one of you two to hammer. And thankfully you guys are both town.
It's pretty obvious now.

[Moneybags]

I think they're both confirmed scum, but because TvK has cc'd me that makes him "more confirmed" than Emp. If that makes sense.

[Moneybags]

I have to leave for somewhere pretty soon but I'll make a post when I get back.

[Moneybags]

Ugh, sorry. Stuff just got bad. This might come off as stalling but I seriously won't be able to post anything substantial until later on. I hope to make a post tonight but I might not be able to until Friday.

[Moneybags]

Thanks for giving me a chance to defend myself >.>

[Moneybags]

Well nothing matters because you guys let him hammer before I had a chance to even get to a computer <.<

[Moneybags]

So Emp I guess you killed TvK because he was confirmed town. I personally would of killed LS, because TvK probably would of voted Elmo right out of the gates.
But it all worked out anyways.