Open 317 Masons & Monks (Game Over) Finished: September 8

[Cirno]

Cirno in this piece. Victory guaranteed. I'm replacing CSL.

Wasn't this supposed to be a night start?

Here are my thoughts:
Yank,Dark,Fighting,Blackberry are town.

Guido is scum.

Deity is an easy wagon. Leaning scum on Chevre for his participation in it.

Leaning town on VitaminR, but his join date makes him scary.

Null on everyone else.

VOTE: Guido

Disclaimer: Victory not guaranteed.

[Cirno]

>I'd like to hear a few more reasons for your other reads as well, if you don't mind Cirno.

In exchange, gimme your reads so far.


Yank and VitaminR seem like straightforward town trying to move the game along.

Reluctance to join in on the random wagoning at the start of the day is a newbie town thing. A quick (and admittedly non-thorough) look through Dark's post history seems to support this theory.

Blackberry shows a similar reluctance to wagon, and his posts seem to have a 'newbish' quality. Disregard that he has been around longer than I have.

I am currently in another game with DietyKabuto where he has been wagoned for similar play. Admittedly, he has not flipped yet in that game, but his ability to get wagoned is consistent between both games.

Guido's drunk post seems like an excuse and I don't buy his "Joke 's on you, I was just pretending!" thing.

The others haven't left an impression in my mind.

Formatting may be broken due to copy and paste.

Also,
>Mist's rules from this game: "I will not accept insulting behaviour in my games"
>Mist from my last game with her: "Fuck u", "I think Fuck u"

I lol'd.

[Cirno]

Have fun suffering from wounds sustained from high speed cement fragments launched at you from fireworks that aren't actually legal in your neighborhood, everyone.

[Cirno]

>Please give me reasons why a person should be voting DeityKabuto.
They shouldn't. He hasn't done anything warranting 4 votes. Why exactly are you voting DK?

[Cirno]

I'm assuming by 'irritate' you are referring to the fact that I find you scummy for participating on the wagon. I dislike the wagon because it is weak, relatively large, and on a person who I don't find particularly scummy. You, in particular, are the fourth on the wagon and have avoided explaining your vote on DK at least twice now.

[Cirno]

>Finally, this vote does not need explanation.

Why doesn't your vote require explanation? Are you voting DK because you find him scummy or is it a random vote? If it is a random vote, why is it still on DK? If it is not a random vote, what led you to vote DK in the first place?

My reason for suspecting you is your participation in the DK wagon. If you help me to understand why you are on the wagon, maybe my suspicion will go away. As it is, you are outright refusing to answer a simple question for no reason and it is only making me more suspicious of you.

[Cirno]

>cjdrum
>hasn't posted since thursday.
>online a moment ago
>doesn't post

Found another scum.

Yes, my hyperactive nitpicking is going to continue all game.

[Cirno]

>My vote on DeityKabuto is not random. My random vote was on Forest_air.

You won't explain your vote. You won't explain why you won't explain your vote. Is it your opinion that refusing to explain your vote when asked can help town in any way? Is it your opinion that such behavior is townie in any way? Is it your opinion that players in mafia should not be required to explain their actions?

Guess we'll have to continue with the baby steps. Your vote is not random. Therefore there must be a reason behind it. Did you vote DK because you found something he did scummy or did you vote to pressure him?

>Why are you voting Guido? Simply because of his sketchy "slip?"

>Be Chevre
>refuse to explain your vote
>ask someone else to explain theirs

I voted Guido because "Guido's drunk post seems like an excuse and I don't buy his "Joke 's on you, I was just pretending!" thing.". Why did you vote DK?

>it is totally possible that cjdrum just doesn't have this game bookmarked or something.

I know he was online because his name was down there in the 'users browsing this forum' area, which means he was browsing central park. His only game in central park (or on mafiascum altogether, as far as I can tell) is this one, on the front page.

In a couple days when you begin complaining about me tunneling you, I want you to recall that you could have avoided all of it if you had only explained your vote.


Anyway, Chevre is now 'scum' rather than 'leaning scum' in my head. Not gonna change my vote until I have a go at Guido, however.

[Cirno]

>one that would've lost all effect had I revealed that it was such. I was hoping DeityKabuto would react more to it, but Cirno went strangely overboard on an early-Day 1 randomwagon.

I went 'overboard' on a person who repeatedly avoided explaining their vote. The thing about pressure votes is that you still need reasoning behind them for it to be effective, otherwise it is no different from a random vote and will be treated as such. Instead you voted someone without explanation, refused to give explanation when asked, and then went 'its strange that you are frustrated with me!!!' when I attacked such behavior.

Now that you don't have to worry about disrupting some 'clever' plan, can you answer some questions?
1. Has my attack on you and DK's subsequent vote changed your opinion of either of us. If so, how and why?
2. What is your current read on Yank, cjdrum, and Guido?
3. Also, if you

had

to vote right now, who would you vote and why?
Basically, please tell me your thoughts on the game so far.

[Cirno]

DK, you are very skilled in making me reluctant to share the same reads as you.

[Cirno]

>mishmash forum
>Last post by:cjdrum
>Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:24 am
>also posting yesterday

@mod: Please prod cjdrum.

[Cirno]

What's up with all the >?

In theory, the > is used before quoted text, for example here. In practice, I abuse it. It comes from spending too much time on certain websites.

[Cirno]

@Guido, smallpeoples, cjdrum: If you had to lynch someone right now, who would it be and why?
@Guido: Who are you a hydra of?
@cjdrum: Why weren't you posting in the thread even though you were reading it?
@Blackberry: Can you be more specific in what you what to know about my vote?

I don't think mafia would bother doing a pbpa. Neither do I think scum would bother responding to one with a megapost unless it was targeting them specifically. I especially don't think scum would bother defending another player's actions (as Dark did my attack on Chevre).

[Cirno]

Hydra is two (or more) people using one account.
The wiki is probably the best place to look up all the terms.

[Cirno]

Can you tell me how many games your main has played on mafiascum?

[Cirno]

v/la until sunday

There will be less than 15 new posts when I return on sunday. Prove me wrong.

[Cirno]

cjdrum lurked, responded to the prod, and lurked again, which basically means he is lurking on purpose.
He is confirmed scum as far as I am concerned.

Though smallpeoples is a bit more active, he shows similar behavior. The posts that he does bother to make seem to be active lurking (221 for example).

@smallpeoples

: Asking again, if you had to lynch someone right now, who would it be, why? Ignoring Cirno
doesn't work.

Disappointed that Tomie joined. I was looking forward to having my way with the game.

Dark seems to only be defending himself lately and needs to do some scum hunting.

Keeping my vote on Guido for two reasons really:

-Voted someone with a 'drunk' post then later claimed it was part of his clever plan to catch scum
-Scum slipped then later claimed that it was part of his clever plan to catch scum

To clarify, I don't put much faith into 'slips' myself, rather I dislike the act of claiming it was part of some plan. Also, he is a filthy hydra.

scum:
cjdrum
guido
smallpeoples
chevre

That is a list of people I find particularly scummy in order of certainty. Not a 'these are our four scum' list.

Formatting may be broken due to copy and paste.

[Cirno]

Just want to point out that purpose of scum hunting is to

find

someone to vote.

[Cirno]

>Not hiding your online status
Some annoying person will make you regret this some day. Mark my words.

[Cirno]

Keep in mind, masons are not confirmed town in this setup, DK.

[Cirno]

>Guido
>Sounds like a convenient out. "Sure that was scummy, but I'm always scummy looking and not scum so you totally can't hold that against me"

Why is "I would be worried if no one found me scummy at all." more likely to be said by scum than town in the first place?

>So you call cjdrum confirmed scum, it doesn't get any more sure than confirmed scum, and yet you keep your vote on me for the nonsense below. Is cjdrum your scum partner, be honest now.

Yes he is. Also, there is no point in trying to pressure a lurker or leaving my vote to sit uselessly on one. I'd much rather leave it to sit on you and watch you try to attack it even though I just explained why it is still on you.

>cjdrum
>Also, I am suspicion of Cirno. I have no idea how many times ze has changed a list of four people to lead the town, as if like sheep.
Taking advantage of town following any reads anyone gives? Badbadbad.

[citation needed]

Alright, check it bro. Initially my suspects were Chevre and Guido. They are still on my list. I then began to show suspicion of you do to your blatant lurking. When you responded to the prod, proving that you are around, and then went straight back to lurking I became certain you were scum. Lastly, smallpeoples is not even trying to find scum in the slightest, so I've added him to the list.

1. Show me where I was sheeping.
2. Show me where I have changed my reads.
3. If someone had to be lynched right now, who would it be and why?

[Cirno]

Also, DK's playstyle is
1.Be useless
2.Get voted
3.roflmao why are you voting me

It's gonna be like that all game folks

[Cirno]

>Guido
>You said confirmed; confirmed literally means I am completely sure he is scum. If I'm completely sure someone is scum I'm moving my vote there in a heartbeat and hollering my head off to get them lynched;

If you park your vote on a lurker on day 1 with several days left before deadline and scream for a lynch you are either an idiot or scum. There is absolutely nothing to gain by voting cjdrum at the moment. Neither is there anything to gain by ending the day right now.

If your argument is "you should only vote for the person you most believe is scum", then I can only say I disagree. I am more concerned with you right now and so my vote is going to remain there.

>you'd rather lynch the hydra with the oddball playstyle because you don't quite get it.

You say 'oddball', I say 'scummy'. Also, honestly, I really would rather lynch you. Your wagon would provide more information than that of a lurker and you are more dangerous to keep around for another day.

[Cirno]

>1. If I'm confirmed scum, then there

is

something to be gained from voting me - lynching a scum, duh.
It's almost as if you are just looking for something to attack rather than actually reading my post. Also, you still haven't answered my questions.



>USE THE FREAKIN' QUOTE TAGS! It is

extremely

hard to get what's happening on the first read-through of your posts. It looks, on first glance, like you're having a freaking conversation between two sides of yourself!

>implying you going to be around long enough for it to matter.

[Cirno]

>cjdrum
>Cirno: Which questions? I'll read back and see what you mean, but maybe a friendly nudge towards them please?

I get the feeling you aren't actually gonna go look back for those questions, so I'll just repost them.

1.Who is the best lynch right now?
2.You claim I was sheeping, please give an example.
3.You claim I repeatedly changed my list of scum, please give an example.
4.Why weren't you posting even though you were reading the thread?
5.What do you hope to accomplish by insisting I vote you?

>Make your mind up. Do you want me gone as soon as possible, or do you just want to leave a hanging vote on a hydra?

Well, I don't really need you gone as soon as possible because you have zero persuasive ability. But since you are actually around to attack my vote, I can't really go "it's useless to pressure a lurker" anymore.

VOTE: cjdrum

[Cirno]

@Guido: Is Dark's argument scummy or are you just nitpicking?

[Cirno]

Also, I was wondering if VitaminR is still your preferred lynch?

[Cirno]

>Tomie
>You were questioned why you didn't vote CJ and you mentioned that you didn't vote him as it has no use to pressure a lurker. However, post 242 mentions that Small Peoples is showing same behaviour, but with more activity. Why not pressure him instead?

That was an explanation of why I was voting Guido over the person I am most certain is scum, cjdrum. I have no reason to vote him over either Guido or cjdrum.


>Do you share the same feelings I have about Deity not doing so at the start of this game?
No.

[Cirno]

>another vote on the Guido wagon
>Now that I've switched, people will flip a shit if I go back
>Meanwhile, cjdrum ignores me even though he was around this morning

god damn it

[Cirno]

>playing sims 3 instead of sims 2

[Cirno]

@cjdrum

>1. Best lynch right now is... Well, with a week left available in the day, you can't say X is the best lynch. To lynch someone

right now

is crappy, limits discussion, whatever.

If you play with wording like that, I'm just gonna reword the question. If deadline was right now, who would you vote and why?

>2. Not sheeping. Herding. You posted nice long analysis-looking posts, which Town just subliminally follows.

Huh? Why is posting "nice long analysis-looking posts' scummy?

>How many times do you want to suddenly add people?

Why is it scummy to find more people scummy as the day progresses? How many times do you believe is acceptable to add a new suspect in a single day?

>Also, questioning two believed scum and one probably town? Why would you do that? That's what threw me off.

...Please tell me why anyone

wouldn't

do that. Questioning people is mafia 101. And you don't just ignore someone because you believe they are town.

>4. Because I wasn't.

But you were browsing central park. You don't have any games other than this one in central park. What were you doing? Keep in mind, even if you lie and say you weren't in central park because I can't prove it, denying this is proof of your guilt to me. Also, you were posting in mishmash. If you claim that you weren't reading the game, then why were you

ignoring

the game?

>5. I wasn't telling you to vote for me, I was just saying that it was odd that you weren't. If I'm

confirmed

scum, then you could lynch me today and question Guido tomorrow.

Why should I have immediately voted a lurker instead of keeping my vote on another person I find scummy who is actually around to be pressured?

Why should I wait until tomorrow to question Guido, even if I believe you are confirmed scum?

>In #244, you say that the purpose of scum hunting is to find someone to vote?
>You found me, yet did not vote me.
>You voted me, THEN questioned Guido.
>This is not what you said.

The purpose of scum hunting is to find scum, i.e. someone to vote. However, Finding one person scummy does not exclude you from questioning or voting someone else. Rather, you keep scum hunting to find either a better vote or the rest of the scum. Why shouldn't I pressure one person, even if I believe another is more likely scum? Why would changing my vote have been more pro-town?

Also, please give me your thoughts on the following people: Guido, smallpeoples, chevre, dk, darkcoffee.

[Cirno]

>cjdrum doesn't realize the time of his last visit is shown on his profile page

[Cirno]

@cjdrum

: Why don't you have anything to say when I just asked you a ton of questions?

[Cirno]

Quote wars are fun, but only when you're the one doing the warring. Skip to the bolded section below if you don't wanna read the whole post. cjdrum has to read the whole thing, though.

>cjdrum
>Doing stuff is Townie. Looking like you're doing stuff is scummy. In your read posts, you've given little to no reasoning, but have fleshed the post out so it looks better.

Please choose one of my posts that you feel falls into the latter category and explain why you feel it does.

>You're allowed to add people. I just don't like the

suddenness

of it. It comes out of the blue, basically - they say maybe one or two things, and you say "they are definitely scum".

You do realize that the two people I added, yourself and smallpeoples, weren't added suddenly because of one or two posts, but because they were lurking and/or active lurking over long periods of time, right?

>Yes, but you don't ask a single question to two people you believe are Mafia and one you believe is Town. That's just plain stupid - especially if the "Town" player answers first.

I don't actually see a problem with that. But I don't seem to have ever addressed the same question to two people i find scum, and one person I believe is town at once. Can you show me where you see that? Or are you just trying to attack without reading the thread?

>I was reading the game.I was not posting in the game because I wasn't.

You weren't posting in the game because you are scum and wanted to slip by.

>After I was "around to be pressured" again, why didn't you vote for me?

I actually did vote you when you showed that your presence would be consistent.

>I'm getting the strangest distancing feeling from your "I'm voting Guido for pressure" - he currently has the most votes. He is most likely to be lynched. If you did not want him lynched, DON'T BLOODY VOTE FOR HIM WHEN HE'S GOT THE MOST VOTES ALREADY!

I'd like to bring your attention to exhibit A

"Also, honestly, I really would rather lynch [Guido]. [Guido's] wagon would provide more information than that of a lurker and [Guido is] more dangerous to keep around for another day."

Further evidence you are more concerned with attacking your attacker than actually reading the game.

>Impatient scum. Awkward.

Impatient.... to question people? Also, you are gonna have to explain why it is more pro-town to wait another day to question Guido.

>>Why shouldn't I pressure one person, even if I believe another is more likely scum?
>>Why would changing my vote have been more pro-town?
>Your argument is invalid


In order words... you can't actually answer the questions, can you?

>Either Guido or nobody, because voting for anybody else right on deadline with these votes would be useless.
>Finally, because of Ye Olde reason "I found someone scummy": vote: Cirno

TL;DR - You imply that a no lynch is acceptable. You admit you were reading the thread but not posting. You've not actually read my posts, but still try to attack me. You resort to "impatient scum" and "your argument is invalid" when you can't answer a question. You claim voting anyone other than Guido at this point in pointless, but contradict yourself by voting me.

However, your "Doing stuff is Townie. Looking like you're doing stuff is scummy. " is straightforward enough, so long as you explain why my posts fall into the latter category.

[Cirno]

@smallpeoples

: You haven't given any opinions all game. Why do you prefer DK over the other wagon (presumably the Guido wagon)? If you did not feel that you had to choose between the "two people who are going for a lynch", would you still prefer a DK lynch?

[Cirno]

This is gonna get impossible to follow soon, so let's organize things a bit. The "you" referred to below is

cjdrum

if that isn't already obvious.

You have three main arguments against me:
1.That questioning a wide range of people is scummy.
2.That questioning and voting Guido over you (who I referred to as confirmed scum) is scummy.
3.That I haven't been explaining my reads.

The first argument is worthless because there is no reason why questioning any combination of players, even if they share no "common trends", is scummy or anti-town, especially when said question is "Who do you find scummiest?".

The second argument is worthless because there was no benefit in voting a person who had not posted in

9 days

. And when you did begin posting (on july 9th) I voted you (on july 10th). Note that you only stopped lurking after I called you confirmed scum for lurking. Also, I never wanted to lynch Guido purely for information (In fact, he was the first person I called scummy and never changed that read) and "I prefer lynching Guido over my top scum read" and "I disagree that you can only vote your top scum read" are not contradictory.

The third argument is worthless because you don't have a single valid example to back up the argument. While I didn't explain my reads in my initial post, I explained them when asked. My read of Chevre went from "leaning scum" to "scum" after a lengthy argument when he refused to explain his vote. My reads of cjdrum and smallpeoples were explained in the same post in which they were made. Yes, that very post you just linked to.

Also, about your "questioning Guido is anti-town because he'll still be around tomorrow or he won't be". That shit was dumb. Real dumb.

[Cirno]

I've two main arguments against you (cjdrum).

1.Blatant lurking. Posting in mishmash while ignoring the thread. Reading the thread and not posting for what you claim is no reason. Responding to a prod and immediately going back to lurking. Active lurking when he finally begins to post.

2. OMGUS. Immediately appearing upon being called scummy for lurking to attack your attacker. Refusing to explain why behavior you believe is scummy

is

scummy with phrases like "Your argument is irrelevant", "impatient scum", and most recently by calling the questions irrelevant. Attacking me for things like changing my read of Chevre despite my argument with her, keeping my vote on Guido despite your 9 day absence, and

questioning multiple people

despite the fact that that is how you play the fucking game.

Dropping the No Lynch thing. I took "Guido or Noone" to mean "I would vote for Guido or I would vote for a no lynch".

[Cirno]

btw i'm gonna quickhammer Guido without a claim if he gets to L-1. You may attack me in advance for this if you like.

[Cirno]

He is at L-2 by my count (Darkcoffeejazz, VitaminR, Tomie Uzumaki, BlackBerry, DietyKabuto)

[Cirno]

@cjdrum: I've refuted your main arguments. I've shown that I had good reason to continue to vote Guido over you. Your response is "This is saying nothing." I've shown that I had and gave good reasons for changing my votes on Chevre, cjdrum, smallpeoples. Your response is basically "that is not a good enough reason". Addressing the same question to multiple people is not and never will be scummy. You continue to argue the contrary while refusing to explain why such behavior

is

scummy. I don't think there is anything to be gained from us continuing to go back and forth, so let's leave it at this.

Your line about waiting until Day 2 to question Guido is retarded because there is absolutely no reason questioning him now is scummy or anti-town.

Don't know what you mean by that "And that second last paragraph..." line. Can you explain?

in other news,

>Guido
>Horrible horrible horrible. How does this make any sense if you are town?
Consider the following:

1.I think you are scum
2.Masons and Monks can still be scum.

Where is the value in a claim in this setup?

[Cirno]

>changing my votes
that should be changing my

reads

[Cirno]

>implying anybody who comes out of lurking to attack somebody for asking three people the same question is town

[Cirno]

>we'd at least be a bit more informed as to whether or not this is a good idea.

How would his claim (mason, monk, or town) influence your decision?

[Cirno]

Well, I think vitamin or someone posted this already, but let's make sure everyone understands the setup.

A 12-player open setup probably proposed by Fiasco.

There are 2 Mafia Goons and 2 Werewolves. Arbitrarily two players who are not mafia are Masons who can talk at night but don't know each other's alignment. Similarly arbitrarily two players who are not werewolves are called Monks.

Night start.

Masons can't be mafia but can be werewolves.
Monks can't be werewolves but can be mafia.

The game was supposed to be a night start, which means 1 or 2 people were supposed to already be dead.

[Cirno]

are you guys retarded?

VOTE: Guido

If only I had returned sooner.



@cjdrum: Just repost the question.

[Cirno]

Voting Guido again in an attempt to lynch him by myself.

VOTE: Guido

[Cirno]

If I go back to that post and answer a question and then you come back and say it is the wrong question I am going to ignore you for the rest of the game. Deal?

[Cirno]

@cjdrum: btw is Guido town or scum?

[Cirno]

By saying he is a monk, you are saying you have a town read on him and believe his claim, right? I'm trying to get you to take a stance one way or the other before his flip.

Looking back for whatever question you are talking about in a moment.

[Cirno]

my double voting plan didn't work

[Cirno]

The question: Why did you neglect that part of my post?


Context: Cjdrum is arguing that it is scummy to pressure Guido after referring to cjdrum as "confirmed scum in my opinion". In my reply to this argument I asked "Why shouldn't I pressure one person, even if I believe another is more likely scum?". cjdrum is arguing that using "more likely scum" and "confirmed scum" makes a difference and is asking why I "neglected" the phrase "confirmed scum".

I neglected it because it makes no difference in my argument. It is not scummy to pressure one player even after calling another player confirmed scum.

Happy?

[Cirno]

Theory: Scott was bussing Guido who was at L-2. yankcane's argument gave him an excuse to hop off. Now he is trying to save Guido by voting cjdrum.

Discuss.

[Cirno]

...Wanna help me get a flip then?

[Cirno]

Won't everybody just claim mason or monk then?

[Cirno]

Okay guys, I have information that blackberry's next post will be ground-breaking and will actually revolutionize the way mafia is played on mafiascum. My sources have referred to it as "Spell-binding", "An inspiration to all scum-hunters", and "one long fucking post". Blackberry's post will settle once and for all what should be done about Guido's claim and who should be lynched today. No one is allowed to argue with that post. The master is about to show us how it is done.

[Cirno]

Welp, this game is going to deadline. Hit me on my hip when the flash wagons begin.

[Cirno]

If Guido can't be lynched (no, I don't care about his claim), cjdrum or smallpeoples are good enough.

VOTE: cjdrum

DK is either 1) lying or 2) misunderstanding a role pm as a monk/mason.

@Scott: Is that a vote for a policy lynch or is that a vote for behavior you find scummy?

[Cirno]

>DK is mason/werewolf

[Cirno]

That post is why I made the comment. He might think Monk/Mason have to be scum as well because he got such a role in his pm.

[Cirno]

That last post was in response to Vitamin, if it wasn't obvious.

[Cirno]

I AM NEITHER MASON NOR MAFIA,

UNVOTE; VOTE CIRNO

THIS IS FOR PROVOKING ME TO CLAIM, BECAUSE NORMALLY I WOULD CLAIM AND CLAIMS ONLY BENEFIT SCUM EVEN IF I WAS VT, THEN SCUM WOULD KNOW WHO NOT TO LYNCH SINCE THEY TARGET MASONS AND PRS.

The reaction image I am seeking is not on my computer.

[Cirno]

I'm probably gonna disappear for a day and a half. I'll be around for a few more hours if anyone has something to ask me.

[Cirno]

Restating my case on cjdrum before I go. He lurked 9 days with no reason, returned only when attacked,
only to attack his attacker, and hasn't done anything else but attack said attacker since.

I'll check in again this evening and then v/la until saturday night.

[Cirno]

Simple way to settle this DK role pm thing.

@MOD: Can you add the role PMs to the OP (with names and links to QT removed). This is common practice in open games. See just about any other game in central park for an example.

Also,

v/la until saturday night

[Cirno]

I'm back. Good to see absolutely no progress has been m-

ROFL, YOU JUST SAID. "HOW DO I KNOW YOU ARE NOT SCUM". I FREAKING HATE THAT SUCKISH DEFENSE.

Only scum are interested in the roles of others

so they'll know who to lynch and who not to

DK, I understand Amrun's feelings right now. The whole game is built upon the fact that townies do not know the roles of any other player. "I don't know your role" is not a suckish defense. For a townie, it is a fact. "I'm town so stop voting me" is a suckish defense. Townies are also interested in the roles of others "so they'll know who to lynch and who not to". Scum don't care who is lynched. Accusing other players, even other townies, is not a scummy act in itself. In fact, town on town attacks and votes are pretty much guaranteed to happen in any given mafia game.

Also, fuck letting the game sit until deadline.

@DK:

You are not a monk.
You claim not to be a mason.
You claim not to be a werewolf.
You claim not to be mafia.
Therefore, you can only be vanilla town. You are claiming that the role PM of a vanilla townie gives you insight into Guido's role. You are lying. Why are you lying, DK?

@DCJ

: You complained about town not wanting a lynch. How does unvoting and going v/la even though you are clearly around playing in other games helping town get a lynch?

@Guido, BlackBerry

: Can you give me the bullet points on why DCJ is the best possible lynch today? As clearly and concisely as possible, please.

@VitaminR

: Why are you complaining about pointless votes, when your own vote is parked on Scott, somebody that very few people have shown any interest in lynching?

@cjdrum

: Why are you lurking again now that the attacks against you have stopped?

@smallpeoples

: You are voting Yank because he is tunneling you. What makes Yank's suspicion of you tunneling rather than a valid suspicion?

Nothing I really care to ask the rest of you.

[Cirno]

Active lurking is basically posting without adding or doing anything of significance to the game. Go back and look at your posts when first stopped lurking for an example. Lurking is basically a prolonged period of inactivity. Pretty much your behavior before I attacked you and when I stopped. As for the No Lynch thing, I dropped it and explained why awhile back. Guess you missed that while you reading the game.

[Cirno]

Not gonna waste time arguing with you about the reading/not reading nonsense or whether "I'm dropping that" is a good or bad way to drop a subject.

As for active lurking, basically every one of your posts that doesn't have to do with me attacking you is active lurking. You haven't done a single useful thing all game other than attack the person calling you out.

[Cirno]

Links to your other games, please.

[Cirno]

Town. I want to see if you consistently lurk because there is nothing to comment on.

[Cirno]

Looks delicious from a quick glance. I'll make a proper post comparing behavior as town and in this game, tomorrow. A concise one, not a megapost.

[Cirno]

"The lynch wasn't happening so I did everything in my power to make sure I cannot contribute to a lynch"

Anyway, how about voting someone?

[Cirno]

So you gonna help us get a lynch or are you gonna whine?

[Cirno]

I'm okay with lynching DK.

[Cirno]

Done looking through cjdrum's games. He does show a bit more initiative by actually voting without being provoked, questioning other players, and building cases. And in his scum game he has several absences of around 3 days each. The contrast in his play from his town games and this one is less incriminating because he seems to be the type to just respond to posts directed at him most of the time. However, I think the similarity between this game and his scum game is notable.

Anyway, other than cjdrum, I'm okay with lynching smallpeoples, who alternates between lurking and active lurking and has actually contributed much less than cjdrum, and DK, who does nothing but OMGUS and has now suggested a no lynch.

Also, I just realized cjdrum's signature says 'hardcore pornography'.

[Cirno]

His claim doesn't clear him in the slightest for me, especially when I take into consideration

every other post of his

.

Also, to be clear is smallpeoples 100% confirmed town in your eyes?

[Cirno]

Well no, but I think he's highly likely to be town.

Why doesn't it clear him? What's the scum motive in doing it?

He has shown himself to be clueless and I don't think being clueless is exclusive to town. I also think basing your read on someone on a single post early in the game is a terrible idea, especially when he is scummy if you ignore that one post.


Not hopping on that DCJ wagon. DCJ is a bro. Also, if he claims mason I will laugh hard.

inb4 "it was deadline and I had to vote someone" on Day 2.

[Cirno]

I, uh... Wow. I feel enlightened.

And a whole lot safer knowing that we're a lot less likely to not No Lynch.

UNVOTE: Cirno
VOTE: Darkcoffeejazz

Also, to add to that, that claiming that he had no Fs in his username? Scumscumscum.

btw, this was posted by scum.

[Cirno]

It's a scum post because it is essentially "I agree" even though you've shown no suspicion of DCJ in the game so far.

[Cirno]

Scum Check List
[x] Suddenly agreeing with a case you have ignored all game
[x] Using the deadline to excuse such behavior when called out about it

[Cirno]

You have ripped off all my gimmicks so far, cj. Don't rip off my checklist. Don't do it.

[Cirno]

DK, I'm interested in your response to Chevre's post.

Yes, I am blatantly ignoring your last post.

[Cirno]

I cannot express in words how stupid I believe waiting for scummy people to be nk'd is.

[Cirno]

Well, I guess everybody has to get that one self-hammer out of their system at MS.

[Cirno]

>stopping before developing carpel tunnel syndrome

You call yourself a programmer?

[Cirno]

I was joking, DK.

[Cirno]

>Lion cage full of dismembered corpses
>Lion nowhere to be found

[Cirno]

I only voted DCJ because WE NEEDED A LYNCH.

Called it. Let the shirking of responsibility begin. Also, didn't you say you voted DCJ because Guido's case "enlightened" you, that you "now see where Guido is coming from"?

Add "immediately trying to deflect responsibility for his vote on anybody else the second he is voted" to the reasons cjdrum is scum.

VOTE: cjdrum

Also, you are gonna have to explain two things:
1.Why is it scummy to not vote for a person I have called town from the moment I replaced in?
2.Why is any quote in 706 scummy?

Is english your first language? I'm asking this seriously, not as an insult.

Other people I find suspicious:

DK - Lying about his role. Constantly accusing people of rolefishing when they question him about it. Attacking cj for the sole reason of being on dcj wagon (even though DK was on it himself) and then changing his vote when he is unable to explain why cj's vote is different from any other vote on the wagon. Also, his behavior in the last two pages is very different from his 66 pages of being town (before being modkilled) in our other game. Yes, i went out of my way to mention that he was modkilled.

smallpeoples - Lurking, active lurking, ignoring questions, shamelessly bandwagoning

Ignoring Guido. Moving Chevre to null. Plotting ways to get Thor killed as is my duty. Not bothering with the rest of you unless I find reason to.

[Cirno]

DK, I am assuming your "if you are town say so now" is referring to "vanilla townie". We already know who the monks are and you are claiming mason, so EVERYBODY ELSE is going to claim vanilla townie.

No, I will not refrain from attacking my suspects.
No, your claim does not change my opinion of you and neither will my opinion change based upon your suggestion to do so.

[Cirno]

GUIDO AND SMALLPEOPLES ARE THE MONKS. YOU ARE THE MASON. THEREFORE EVERYONE ELSE WILL CLAIM VANILLA TOWNIE.
GUIDO AND SMALLPEOPLES ARE THE MONKS. YOU ARE THE MASON. THEREFORE EVERYONE ELSE WILL CLAIM VANILLA TOWNIE.
GUIDO AND SMALLPEOPLES ARE THE MONKS. YOU ARE THE MASON. THEREFORE EVERYONE ELSE WILL CLAIM VANILLA TOWNIE.

I do believe you are mason because VitaminR's behavior towards you on day 1 would suggest as much. However, your claim of mason does not explain the additional information you claim to have and have refused to explain. Therefore, my suspicions of you do not change. Also, the setup has been explained to everyone time and time again and I refuse to believe you still do not understand it

[Cirno]

Cirno, the additional information was that Vitamin was town xD.

[Cirno]

Chevre is now null because of her behavior at the end of Day 1. No, I am not required to interact with her to change my opinion of her. You suggested that the fact that I did not vote DCJ at the end of day 1 was suspicious and your post consisting of nothing but my quotes lends to that suggestion. I will certainly look into smallpeoples. Doesn't mean I'm not gonna keep attacking you as well, though.

I'm asking if english is not your first language because you constantly misinterpret posts or events whose meanings should be obvious. For instance, when DK said "I'm not a cop" and you replied "There are no cops in this game if that's what you are saying" or the fact that you still cannot fathom why I called Chevre scum after I had just spent several posts attacking her.

[Cirno]

Also, that "wait for tomorrow" shit

was

dumb.

[Cirno]

>cjdrum
>If you could rid the town of three people who you think are most likely scum, who would you kill?
cjdrum,smallpeoples,Guido

Who would

you

choose?

[Cirno]

Did you find DCJ scummy? Who do you find scummy now?

[Cirno]

There needs to be at least one town monk/mason

No there doesn't. You fucked up the setup.

[Cirno]

Presumably, the argument is that DK is the last mason, so mafia will kill him tonight. You know, the same argument you were making about not lynching a monk yesterday?


>Umm who's the mod here?
Mods are not infallible and if I think you are doing something incorrectly I'm going to complain, mod or not. But if that is the official setup, then I take back what I said. It would be helpful if that was added to the wiki. Not knowing that one mason/monk has to be town in an open setup kinda makes the setup not so open.

Posting this anyway even though Scott posted while I was in preview.

[Cirno]

Deadline is august 14. Don't know why you are worrying about it this early in the day.

[Cirno]

So Vitamin and I are the town Masons, what I want to know if Guido is a town monk or scum monk.

Just want to make sure you are understanding what Mist said. One Monk and One Mason is required to be town. VitaminR flipped town, so the requirement for masons has been met. There is no guarantee that you are town. Also smallpeoples and Guido are monks, therefore one of them is guaranteed to be town.

[Cirno]

No, I am not being misleading. Mist just posted the set-up she is using.

1-2 Mafia Goons
1-2 Werewolves

1-2 Town Masons (not Mafia)
1-2 Town Monks (not Werewolves)
0-1 Mafia Monks
0-1 Werewolf Masons

6-8 Vanilla Townies

There is no requirement for a Monk or a Mason to be scum, however

at least

one Monk AND one Mason are town. Remember, there is only one monk team and only one mason team. If a Mason/Monk was guaranteed to be scum, then the other mason/monk would have confirmed scum at the start of the game (their partner). Also in that case, VitaminR's town flip would guarantee you as scum.

[Cirno]

>cjdrum not even trying anymore

Go back, read my first post to DK again, and reflect on your actions in a corner.

@DK

: Yes, both masons (and both monks) can be town. My point is that you are not confirmed town and that your alignment has no influence on that of the monks.

[Cirno]

I was referring to my first post to DK on the subject of making sure he understood the set-up (#774), which you didn't even try to understand in your rush to derp as hard as possible, hence the remark that you weren't even trying.

>I want to know why you think I am Mafia or Werewolf

What you want is to start a another quote war so you have an excuse to not do any scum hunting like on Day 1 and I'm not going for it. I spent a lot of time on day 1 explaining my suspicions of you. If you somehow can't remember those suspicions then scroll to the bottom of the page to "Display posts by user:", choose Cirno and hit go. There you will find all my suspicions of you. If you are too lazy to read through the iso, you can find a summary of my suspicions of you near the end of Day 1. I also found your behavior at the start of Day 2 suspect. You can find those suspicions in my iso as well.

[Cirno]

Because you did all those things I find suspicious and absolutely nothing to lead me to believe you were town.

[Cirno]

>If he hasn't yet - the last mason should claim. I legitimately believe this. Discuss.

DeityKabuto is the other mason. Discuss.

[Cirno]

Tomie was replaced by Thor, guys.

[Cirno]

Looks like this game is really slowing down. But don't worry, Thor is here and I've received word that his next post will blow the
game wide open and as you well know my sources are very reliable. I know I hyped blackberry and he turned out to a werewolf, but werewolves look like normal people a lot of the time and I had no idea he was into eating people's arms and that kind of thing, so it's really not my fault. Anyway, just sit back and relax because the easy road to victory is about to open.

[Cirno]

@smallpeoples: How can you suspect cjdrum when you lurk just as much? And what exactly do you dislike about DK?

[Cirno]

Why smallpeoples and Scott?

[Cirno]

Gimme an explanation of why Scott is scum other than "Thor is voting him", DK. You can't claim that you want to be helpful and then do shit like this.

[Cirno]

Call him my scumbuddy all you want. I still want you to explain why he is scum. Why is he on your suspect list?

Also, look through my iso and tell me again that I've never posted reads.

[Cirno]

@DeityKabuto

: So how about that explanation of your Scott read?

[Cirno]

@DK: So it's just because he was on the wagon? Same for cjdrum and smallpeople? Is the only reason you are voting Scott rather than those two Thor's vote?

[Cirno]

@Cirno - who are you advancing as scum currently? It's cjdrum, yeah? What flavor of scum is he and why?

>Asked why I dislike cjdrum
>Point out that there is a summary in my iso
>Immediately asked why I dislike cjdrum again by another player

Up to date summary of why cjdrum is scum:

-Lurking (for 9 days) in this game while being active elsewhere on the site
-responds to prod, goes back to lurking
-lurks as scum in meta
-only attacks the person attacking him, while showing little knowledge of the context of the things he attacks
-Does absolutely nothing unless he is answering a question or responding to an attack upon himself
-Suddenly votes DCJ at the end of Day 1 after becoming "enlightened"
-Uses the "it was deadline I had to vote" line when questioned about it the next day

For details or examples, go read my iso.

Also, you guys keep saying this game is a trainwreck. I've seen some bad games and this one is nowhere near a trainwreck.

[Cirno]

Pretty much null on both of them. I'd call Chevre scum before Scott. I don't have any problems with Scott myself.

[Cirno]

>Thor
>There seems to support for a Chevre lynch, wanna get on that instead of cjdrum? I think the lurk tell on him is pretty weak since, as far as I can tell, he's always kinda fail lurky.

I won't just vote Chevre over cjdrum or smallpeople. I might give him a vote if neither of those two can be lynched, but it is too early to start compromising for a lynch.

Also,
>DK laughing at people not understanding the setup

[Cirno]

Can I get a summary of why Chevre is scum? I understand Scott's vote but I don't understand Thor or Guido's.

@cjdrum

: So are you down with a Chevre lynch?

[Cirno]

You know, when you asked for my case on cjdrum I repeated it for you even though I'd made it several times.

[Cirno]

Just trying to understand your case, dude. Calm down.

You are voting Chevre for:
-His refusal to explain his vote on day 1
-His DK vote on day 1
-His listing of two monks as suspects for being werewolves.

Is that correct?

Also, what is your opinion on Guido's strategy of following you blindly?

[Cirno]

v/la until saturday

[Cirno]

Back. Just gonna comment quickly so I can move on to the next game and then get out of here.

-I don't understand why Shion is not voting Chevre after making a huge wall of text attacking him.
-DK's confirmation of the monks is stupid.
-I disagree that smallpeople's claim makes his slot confirmed town
-I think the "listing two monks" thing is not behavior exclusive to or even more likely to be done by scum, so I find those votes weak.
-I find blindly following anyone not only anti-town but scummy and a hydra doing so particularly ridiculous.

This essentially means I don't agree with a single vote on the Chevre wagon, so I'm not joining.

Back to regular play sometime soon.

[Cirno]

@cjdrum: I take it you support the Chevre wagon?

[Cirno]

@cjdrum: I take it you support the Chevre wagon?

[Cirno]

What is so difficult to understand? I think you are scum. I dislike the Chevre wagon. The reasoning behind both of those statements has already been given. Similarly, an explanation of what I consider active lurking has already been given. As far as playstyle goes, it boils down to one thing: Either play is pro-town or it is not. And while I can list many things I find scummy about your play, I cannot list even a single thing about it that I find pro-town.

No idea what you are referring to with "that last one".

[Cirno]

@DK

: I don't understand how Guido's post influences your opinion of Thor's alignment. Also, give me a summary of why Thor is scum.

@CJ

: Can you clarify post 944? Are you willing to lynch Chevre/Descent or not? If so, why and why aren't you voting him? You are active lurking because you are "posting without adding or doing anything of significance to the game.". Also, look where your vote is, look at those last two lines you posted, and reflect on your actions in a corner once again.

[Cirno]

>Constantly call people scum out of nowhere
>Get asked repeatedly by multiple people to explain why
>Refuse to do so
>Go on a rant about no one taking the game seriously when no one listens to you
*insert reaction image here*

@Thor

: What are your complaints about Scott? And while we are at it, why do you dislike Yank?

For the record, I'm opposed to a Scott lynch.

[Cirno]

If I had to choose between pro-town and scummy, then yes I would choose pro-town. But like I said earlier, he is null. He doesn't really stand out as town or scum. But as I really don't have any problems with his play, I'm against his lynch.

@DK

: Okay, DK. Tell me, in a calm and concise manner, why Scott is scum. HARD MODE: Don't use any reasoning invalidated by his last post. NIGHTMARE MODE: Logically sound arguments only.

[Cirno]

@MOD: Please prod cjdrum and Shion.

@cjdrum,Shion,Descent

: Vote someone. Whoever you most think is scum. There is still time to start alternative wagons if you don't want to follow Thor.

Now, I want the day to end. So I am willing to change my vote. But first, I want these guys to commit their votes somewhere.

Also, just ignore DK. There is nothing to gain in arguing with him except more frustration.

[Cirno]

Why don't you vote? Seems suspicious to want to essentially feel out which wagon will work by telling other people to vote.

Alternatively, I want everyone to commit to a vote and I want to see if there any viable wagons other than the ones I've expressed disapproval of.

[Cirno]

What about yourself? Who do you find most scummy?

The same person I've been calling my top suspect for the entire game. Use your fucking brain.

[Cirno]

>can I get a what-what
Killing you tonight.


Disclaimer: Joke.

[Cirno]

I think Thor's problem with the post is the "[voting] a Mason while two mafia are still alive" thing.

[Cirno]

Also, why are you abandoning your vote so easily?

[Cirno]

Will that affect the deadline?

[Cirno]

Well, i said I'd change my vote to get a lynch so here it is.

VOTE: Descent

[Cirno]

Okay, I'm gonna go v/la tomorrow night but I'll be around until then. Here are my thoughts on the game.

Concerning The Remaining Werewolf
1.Start with the remaining players
2.Subtract those that cannot be werewolves (muffin,guido)
3.Subtract those parking their votes in the middle of nowhere (DK,Yank)
4.Subtract myself

The remaining werewolf is Scott or cjdrum.

Concerning The Mafia
1. I agree with Scott that one of the Monks is mafia, so Muffin OR Guido is mafia.
2.DK cannot be mafia and I think yank (now andrew) is town.
3. Subtract myself

Mafia is Muffin OR Guido + cjdrum OR Scott.

Which means both cjdrum AND Scott are scum, so I'm willing to lynch either of them.

Discuss.

>disconnected 3 times while trying to post this.

[Cirno]

fel·low

/ˈfelō/
Noun: A man or boy.
Adjective: Sharing a particular activity, quality, or condition with someone or something.

You used it in the adjective sense. Therefore when you call someone a fellow scum, it implies that you share that "particular quality or condition". Especially considering the "my" you forgot to erase.

Guido is right about the monk thing. But that doesn't really change anything for me. However, I'm re-thinking DK, not just because of this "fellow scum" thing just now, but also because I think he is the only person who would kill Thor as werewolf when Mafia have a greater incentive to do so (only one mason that is already in a bad position). I've not checked his interaction with blackberry yet.

@Scott: Yank seems like the most straightforward townie to me. He hasn't done anything in the least bit scummy all game (in my opinion). Andrew just happened to replace into his slot.

[Cirno]

Alright, I'm outta here until Sunday.

v/la until Sunday

[Cirno]

Back in theory. In practice, I won't be posting anything significant until tomorrow.

[Cirno]

>nobody told bvoigt about the claims
DK is mason. Guido and Muffin are the monks. Chevre was

not

a monk and never claimed to be.

@DK: You are not cleared. Guido is not cleared. There is only one monk and one mason guaranteed to be town. Your partner, VitaminR already flipped town. Therefore there is no guarantee of your alignment. This has been explained to you repeatedly. When next you get the urge to post, I want you to stop and think "Does what I've written make

any

sense whatsoever?". If the answer is no (and it will be), then don't post it.

Not sure I understand andrew's logic entirely.

Other than that, not much has changed since I went v/la.

[Cirno]

SO UNTIL I AM DEAD AND MY ROLE IS REVEALED YOU CANNOT PUT TRUST INTO FELLOW TOWN PLAYERS? IF YOU CANT TRUST IN MAFIA, YOUR CHANCES ARE SLIM.

>implying a person who constantly claims they are confirmed based on nothing is trustworthy
>implying a person who blatantly lied about their role giving them inside information is trustworthy
>implying a person who omgus anyone who suspects him is trustworthy
>implying a person who insists anybody on a mislynch but himself must be scum is trustworthy
>implying a person who pushes lynches with no logical explanation is trustworthy
>implying a person who hasn't been the least bit helpful all game is trustworthy
>implying a person who can't even remember which players are the monks is trustworthy
>implying a person who insists that people blindly trust him is trustworthy
>implying a person who argues with caps lock instead of logic is trustworthy
>implying a person who has done all of the above should be trusted in even the slightest bit

In the first place blindly trusting anybody at this point is stupid. Secondly, blindly trusting

you

of all people is even stupider. Take this as me fully supporting a DK lynch after we kill a mafia.

[Cirno]

>andrew
>bvoight didnt include himself in both lists, and scott said 'correct'.
Because no one expects bvoigt to list himself as a suspect

>Scott
>I don't understand the specific scumhunting here. If you think DK is scum, you should be voting him.
I'm using Guido's logic. There are 4 possible setups at this moment.

1.2 Mafia, 2 Monks, 1 Mason, 1 Wolf, 1 VT
2.2 Mafia, 2 Monks, 1 Wolf Mason, 2 VT
3.1 Mafia, 1 Mafia Monk, 1 Monk, 1 Mason, 1 Wolf, 2 VT
4.1 Mafia, 1 Mafia Monk, 1 Monk, 1 Mason Wolf, 3 VT

DK being werewolf requires 2 or 4. Lynch him, add in a night kill.

2.2 Mafia, 2 Monks, 1 VT <-- 3/2 lylo
4.1 Mafia, 1 Mafia Monk, 1 Monk, 2 VT <--3/2 lylo

So unless I'm making some kind of mistake here, then Guido is right.


>DK
>Hey weren't you on the mislynch wagon both days?
Nope.

[Cirno]

>Cirno looks bad on the GC wagon
And why is that exactly?

Anyway, I'm voting. Adding DK to my wolf suspects eliminates the situation where both Scott and cjdrum must be scum. I don't think you all want to lynch a monk yet and I've always suspected cjdrum far more than Scott, so I'm putting my vote there.

VOTE: bvoigt

[Cirno]

Looks like we are goin into night anyway, but I haven't posted in awhile so I'm checking in.

[Cirno]

Got prodded. My obvious first choice would be bvoigt. After that Guido. But frankly, I should look back over the game and I won't really have the time until Wednesday.

[Cirno]

Scum is Guido + bvoigt. I don't believe scum would cast the first vote when they can quicklynch if even one townie casts a vote before them and if Guido was town, he would have been quicklynched in the 24+ hours since Scott's vote. And Guido's partner can only be bvoigt. Not only did Scott just vote him in lylo, but he also put Guido at L-1 during my "I'll hammer if Guido is put at L-1" thing. Muffin and Guido cannot both be scum as one monk must be town.

VOTE: Guido

[Cirno]

So what happened with the werewolf night 1 kill? Yank wanted to kill VitaminR at first, but he agreed to kill a monk in the end and Blackberry was under the impression that someone else was targeted. Was that a mod mistake or did they miss the deadline or what?

Looking back at the QT, I was pretty rude to smallpeople, so sorry about that.

Also, I asked Mist to kill Thor in the most gruesome way possible but all he got was a bullet and a few bite marks. Frankly, I was disappointed in the lack of disembowelment and missing limbs and I strongly encourage Mist to increase the brutality of night kills in the future. Unless the reader immediately vomits all over their keyboard after reading a death scene and is unable to sleep for days afterward, it cannot be considered satisfactory.

[Cirno]

Yeah, that probably had something to do with the fact that DK told you that Chevre was a monk.

[Cirno]

Also people on the Now hate Forever! List are blacklisted from my games.

Well that's dumb.