Open 323: Murder at Happy Sunshine Hospital (Scum win!)

[farside22]

I endorse the product and or service above ^
I think having everyone state there top 2 scum reads at the end of the game with reason would help determine the fakers (scum).
This will work only if all town doctors are alive. If the RB is lynched or killed by the doc's then it will work with 2 doctors.
The less players for the scum to pick the more they can narrow down doctors.

vote: Sundy

[farside22]

NStride's proposal makes sense, but can have really bad side effects if/when we are wrong about players....I mean considering it's very likely to mislynch day one, then accidentally kill night one, plus the mafia kill. I mean it definitely narrows down the numbers and therefore the possibilities but it also gets them steps closer to their win condition. It's basically the same way we always play just a quicker version with us picking off ourselves, I mean we still have to be good at finding scum and this plan just gives us less room for error.

VOTE: tclawren

This is why I want everyone to have a reason. There is a possible mislynch but the more informative a player is with reasoning.
2 weeks is good time to feel people out see what they have to say. I already have a feeling on what I expect from this game, but I'm going to see if I catch a few scum before I point it out.

[farside22]

If the doctors just heal randomly, we're essentially giving the mafia a second kill. All the mafia doc has to do is correctly guess who's being protected, and bam, second nightkill.

Even if the agreed-upon doc kill ends up being a misvig, the fact that we all agreed that player needed to die means we probably would have just mislynched them the next day anyway. I still say the benefits of a town-controlled vig far outweigh the drawbacks. Plus it gives a second wagon of sorts for VCA, for any of you who are in to that.

Damn I was think just the mafia RB down would help. I forget about the mafia doc.

As for the mislynch comment, aren't you mr. negative.
We keep talking like that mafia will be calling the shots while the doctors a paranoid about whether they should listen or not.

[farside22]

The fencesitting in Teamsleep's post 16 is making my ass hurt just reading it.

Considering he stated he was in the middle on the discussion that's that a stretch.

@silavor: I'm not the biggest cheerleader of VCA. So far in my time here I don't always see it working out. I have seen a few times it did (when it first got looked into by DGB in a game I was amazed) but as time has gone on I have grown cynical of VCA. I've seen all town vote on a wagon day 1 against a town player.
I do see 1 pro to VCA, but I'll keep that pro-side secrete for now. Don't want scum knowing what I'm looking for.

[farside22]

@Sundy: Lets say we mislynch today and if we went with Nstride's plan and the doctors targeted who the majority felt was scum and they both flipped town, would you say that doing it another day may actually hurt the town? Would you not be more cautions the next day?

[farside22]

@ Team - My point is, of the responses made before Nstride revealed his 'plan', yours was the worst by far. Using other peoples logic to further your own response does not impress me.

The only person prior to Team who mentioned concern with the kill was Silvor, soooo wouldn't that mean that Darth is comping what others already stated?

[farside22]

@Sundy: Lets say we mislynch today and if we went with Nstride's plan and the doctors targeted who the majority felt was scum and they both flipped town, would you say that doing it another day may actually hurt the town? Would you not be more cautions the next day?

It makes sense to be cautious. But the pool of potential suspects is dwindling. And at the same time, the likelihood of doctors targeting the same person by accident increases, which kills someone anyway. So why shouldn't we direct it?

Or as Nstride pointed out if the kill flips 2 town the doctors could chose to do nothing that night for the safety of the town.

[farside22]

I'm not talking about the plan itself. I'm talking about peoples

reaction

to the plan.

His reaction was MOTR. He admitted it as much.

@ Team - My point is, of the responses made before Nstride revealed his 'plan', yours was the worst by far. Using other peoples logic to further your own response does not impress me.

The only person prior to Team who mentioned concern with the kill was Silvor, soooo wouldn't that mean that Darth is comping what others already stated?

I am doing what now?

I thought newman was referring to Team's comment about caution.

I find it more interesting that since Newman doesn't mention his issue with Team's comment prior (like his first post) and other people bring it Team's comment, suddenly Newman is there BW vote and all. Very scummy.

unvote:
vote: HelllooooNewman

[farside22]

Oh hey, this person has a Best Town Performance to their name. Could they, possibly be... beneficial to the town?

Sure it's a nice thing to have and all, but you don't know my alignment so why feel better about me being here?

(though farside probably doesn’t remember it was sooo long ago)

Sadly no, but if you tell me the game it was it may ring a bell. There are some games I do completely forget due to embarresment or the game wasn't much fun.

My wife's health is better and the baby is healthy from what we can tell, as some of the above are aware she's had complications.
No further complications and 4 months to go to a baby girl!

Congrats!


@Sundy: What is your thoughts on Newman/Team debate?

@Newman: The third quote about a newbie game is a stretch. I took that as in he's going to play in Rome in his other game.

Newman can you please explain why you didn't mention your issue with Team's post in your first post of the game.

@Team: That vote on Newmann looks OMGUS. What is your thoughts on Sundy's vote for you? What do you think Newman is trying to do with his points and why does it see scummy?

[farside22]

@Silvor: What do you think of Nstride and his attack on you?
Nstride: Anything you want to add to the game beside your plan and Silvor vote there?


First of all there were a few people that called out Team for his middle of the road comment. However Glow as about as wishy washy as Team

NStride's proposal makes sense, but can have really bad side effects if/when we are wrong about players....I mean considering it's very likely to mislynch day one, then accidentally kill night one, plus the mafia kill. I mean it definitely narrows down the numbers and therefore the possibilities but it also gets them steps closer to their win condition. It's basically the same way we always play just a quicker version with us picking off ourselves, I mean we still have to be good at finding scum and this plan just gives us less room for error.

VOTE: tclawren

IE: it makes sense. Has bad effect. Could cause a problem. He is pointing the negative while saying it makes sense.

How does it make sense if everything you post about it is negative?

Tclawren is the first to mention Team's post

The fencesitting in Teamsleep's post 16 is making my ass hurt just reading it.

I call this testing waters. Pointing out something without really saying much (IE: doesn't call it scummy and doesn't vote for Team)

Then we have Sundy's reason and vote:

Hello everyone, especially Q, Teamsleep, and Farside.

W/r/t game mechanics: I agree that we should openly discuss the best possible course of action for the doctors, and weigh out the pros & cons once we determine how many serious scum-suspects we have.

vote: Teamsleep

I liked Nstride's little experiment deal, but I feel that he went into it with pre-conceptions about what kind of a response was scummy or town-ish, and I think he's a projecting a little to achieve the case on Silavor, and Teamsleep's response was worse. Sentences like this don't seem to have the bloodthirst of hunting scum to them:

I guess what I'm saying is, I do want to try it once, but if it backfires, I don't want to do it the upcoming days.

This is highly, highly inaccurate. I just got thru explaining caution if there is a mislynch and the doctors all target a town player with 3 town dead and he's saying Team should be more bloodthirsty. Ummmm no.

I really don't like players that keep a vote on RVS while pointing out scummy things about others tcl

Then I question Newmann who state something that was brought up already. Newman and team's argument look petty. Newman is attacking things I find questionable but his response to my question actual made sense.
I just don't like that people pointed to Team and then ignore Glow's response completely. The BW on Team looks scummy.

That said Newmann went from scummy to null. I found a few high's and lows.
Tclawren went sky high on the scum meter for testing waters and riding low under the radar while saying next to nothing in the game.

unvote:
vote: Tclawren

fos: Sundy

Pinkyfloyd needs to post more content.

[farside22]

So basically, you want us to lynch off of reads that tally up the most.

Do you know how easy it is for scum to manipulate this feature?

I did state everyone one puts a post with reasoning on for their suspicion. Mafia can't manipulate that. They could fake it and I suspect some false comments, but majority is town.
hypoclaim is bad if the doctors target players just to save them. The scum doctor will just help the town doc in killing said player.

Lets theorize for a moment
Say I'm town doctor and I hypoclaim saying I'm saving player Y (Play Y is town).
Scum doctor takes a shot protect player Y too and walla you have player Y dead.

I like the idea of everyone having their views on who is scum with reason why. Top two with valid points and then questions there after. The top player whom most find scum should be targeted by all the doctors.

Example here:

I find
tcl and sundy top two scum suspects at this time. I posted a reason why just last page
Others put their points with reason's then we look at it all together and discuss everyone's reasons. Town being the majority gives a powerful vig weapon for the night.

Glow was talking about the negatives of Nstrikes plan. If you don't have a plan the scum will just mow the town over. Talking about all the negative aspects may cause people to be paranoid. How does that help? The doct's protect the same person out of confusion (killing someone they have town read on) more then taking out a player that the majority believe is scum +++ point.
Either the person is scum that the doctors target or the person flips town. If the person is town the scum team would just keep them alive anyways as it takes pressure off of anyone in their group.

[farside22]

Hirk:
You have 4 doctors in the game. Saying have them do nothing is useless.
I see no reason that have you given so far as to why not use the doctors as a vig. At worse you kill a town player that majority found scum and would mostly like target tomorrow. At the very best it's a scum kill.

No I don't say surrender and have no view. Being paranoid can cause confusion. If you don't have a plan for the doctors and you make them fear whether what is the right idea then the wrong idea can happen and the doc's decide to ditch everyone's thoughts and use it as a protect. Which is bad till. Most will protect the most protown.

As scum, I thrive off of the opportunity to make people crumble.

I'll keep that in mind.

So your saying that if the majority agree that 2 players are scum that scum will manipulate it and push their views above everyone else?

[farside22]

Also hirk: Town doctors can look at the views of all the people and they have their own views in the mix. There is nothing wrong with a town doctor targeting whom they believe is scum and hope other town doctors agree with their view.

[farside22]

Perhaps I'm just not used to the whole mentality of the name meaning something different, but doctors should be used more to protect than to vig. My thoughts at the moment, also spontaneous, is that two of the docs should vig while the other two guard the first two docs. This would cause two docs to claim, and settle out the odds to a 1/3 shot of hitting doc, but I like it better than the plan of manipulation.

first
3 doctors are town and one is scum
second if 2 doctors target the same player, the player dies.
3rd there is a scum RB who will stop most like a town doctor.

Only way the above works in theory is if we get lucky and lynch the rb today. However it still leaves one of the doctors in the game as scum.

[farside22]

As for my current opinions from the reaction fish. I've got a feeling of town from HelloNewman (I think he's being a tard though...) and I think Glowball's vote was terrible. Really, really terrible.

Why was it terrible?

@Farside: If I could have I would have voted for Teamsleep, but my vote was already on him. Soooooo....... yeah. Maybe should have been clearer that I thought it was scummy. *shrug*

What made Glow's post better then team? Why not call teamsleep scum in your post when you point out what he did. Your comment came off as uncertain but hey lookish.

hirk: Do you have issues answering questions?
I find your question with a question and actions towards the discussion manipulative. You stated you could manipulate the situation as mafia when the majority of the discussion is town. However when I ask you about it and in what way it could be done, you dodge the question to ask a question the clearly looks like your trying to turn a player who answers the question into someone scummy.

[farside22]

Darth.

Most notably, 57.

That looks like a classic FoS/Vote scenario when he flips scum.

Explain.
I don't get what you mean at all.

I could understand if you hassled me on it multiple times, but just asking once really isn't the best way to go.

You answered my question with a question. You didn't miss the question.

Why are you hardcore defending him?

I find Tcl scum. You declare him town for suggesting using the doctors as vigs and then not really contributing to the conversation is highly suspicious view in my mind.
1 comment does not = town that is a suggestion.
And finally I'm not defending Newmann by the way. I find others more scummy then him.

[farside22]

To Hirk and team:
I'm not a fan of repeating myself. So with the question you asked I put a link where I put my comments about the subject:

Whom, pray tell? There's nothing beneficial to hiding information. We're all opened up (pun not intended) around here.

post 66

That said I find hirk scummy. I find his push on NH going for the easy lynch while saying next to nothing about whom else he find scum.

So, is he scum or town?

That said Newmann went from scummy to null.

As of this post he's reading a bit VI'ish with a splash of bad posting that isn't scummy just bad posting.

I also don't like the free pass he's giving tcl. I don't give pf (pinkfloyd or quath) on ignore. I expect the them, when the read to post content in regards to the game thus far. I did, darth did, majority has given more views then others in this game. Saying it's only page 5 and having no view and no content = town is BS.

Fixed a quote tag.

-Amrun

[farside22]

Glow: Can you explain your reason's for thinking tcl, darth and silvor are scum in your view?

[farside22]

@Sundy:
Please explain how those 2 quotes are lies or me being dishonest.

1) is calling glow negative and causing paranoid feeling. she never mentioned caution. She talks all about the bad.
Where as team meantioned concern and talked about doing it for only 1 day if it caused the problem of 3 dead townies.
2) the other is calling you out for voting for Team for being too cautions.

Now that you mention that you see glow had her own concerns about 3 dead town, why did you single out Team?

[farside22]

Sundy's catch up post is awful. Reads that mean nothing, and goes on too long complaing about Farside's play without calling it scummy.

+++ point.

Still don't like how hirk calls you town on post 7. Your also pointing things out but I feel like I don't see the usual push I expect from you when your town. It's been bothering me since the start of this game.

unvote:

I have NH as town and I don't care for the way Hirk tries to dismiss the doc vig. I would see more concern from scum then town on this. His attack on NH is in my view looking for an easy lynch and although NH has some aweful, I mean horrible reasoning and posting I don't read it as scummy just bad, bad logic. Also hirk forgetting to vote when he's making a case in the post makes no sense to me. How do you not know when your presenting a case on a player that you forget to vote them. Hello I have an 8 hour job, a little boy that interupts me every few minutes when I read and then post and still know where I am and what is going on in this game.

vote: Hirk

[farside22]

I'm sorry I am over committed. I really wanted to play this game but I'm falling behind in another game and I'm going thru a transfer of mod duties currently.
Something has to break and it's this game. It was the last game I committed to and I would rather have someone come in before I fall behind.

Mod: Please replace me.

Before I go.

I find the following players town:

Darth
Team
Newmann
Quaroath

Null
silavor
tcl (do to recent post)
muffin

Scum
Hiraki (He pointed out that tcl was town do to posting the idea of vigs but calls Stride null for coming up with a plan and how it works out. This makes no sense. Keeps poo pooing the idea of doctors as vigs, uses hyper claiming, which helps scum over the vig idea. If he doesn't get lynched I think all town doctors would be best to target him)
pinkfloyd (this isn't because he's lurking. It's the lack of contribution. PF comes from another site and knows how to scum hunt. He's using weak reasoning, not engaging in the discussion and I find his vote and reasoning to vote hirk to be weak scum bussing)
Sundy (I see Sundy following others. This is a big scum tell. He votes Team saying

Sentences like this don't seem to have the bloodthirst of hunting scum to them

This is weak reasoning and looks to be jumping on a BW his latest vote on silvar doesn't win me over either as he has 2 lines and again looks to be following others reasoning.
NStride - Yes the person who came up with the idea is on this list, but what else has he done this game? I feel like scum would make a great idea and use it as town cred and disappear with little else said. His reason's for not coming in and posting or commenting are highly questionable, but i remind myself he's a newb and I haven't found time to look to see if he is posting elsewhere on MS