Open 317 Masons & Monks (Game Over) Finished: September 8

[Guido Crescendo]

VOTE: Don Josh

Yep.

[Guido Crescendo]

[drunk]

Vote: Darkcoffeejazz

For being the last one that posted. Must be mafia. No idea what's going on in this game right now.

[/drunk]

[Guido Crescendo]

Unvote

VitaminR is confirmed BB-aligned.

So a werewolf?

[Guido Crescendo]

Unvote

VitaminR is confirmed BB-aligned.

So a werewolf?

No, it's called being sexy. ^_^

What I want to know is why none of you clowns took the bait I left here; come on I faked a perfectly good mafia slip and absolutely no one noticed.

[Guido Crescendo]

What's the slip? Also, why would you fake a slip?

I specifically referenced BB and you being Werewolf aligned as opposed to being "scum"; the implication is that I'm Mafia and just Werewolf hunting. And I'd fake a slip like that to see if anyone would notice it, jump on it, etc just to get something usable in terms of reactions because this game is so rather unproductive right now.

[Guido Crescendo]

I think you MAY have accidentally slipped and then just pulled it off as "oh here look at what I did to catch mafia." If you were genuinely looking for reactions you wouldn't have posted as soon as you did and you would have actually played it out longer, i.e., continueing to look like you're only hunting for werewolves, etc.

It had been a full day and there had been only a dozen posts and absolutely nothing I'd consider useful content in that time; at least be revealing it I gave a few interested people something to talk about and thus something for me to evaluate. In the meanwhile let's throw some more rocks and see if we can't bring this game to life.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: DeityKabuto

Shameless bandwagoning ho!

*laughs*

[Guido Crescendo]

/did not read DCJ's epic wall of all walls. I hate walls. Kills interest in the game for the town. Suffocates them under too many words. Bad.

Through my most current reread, the thing that jumped out at me most were VitimanR finally jumping on that easy shot I lined up, voting due to my drunk post, but *only* after Cirno voted for me.

(Btw, the story behind drunk post was simple. Guido B contacted me while I was drunk, with friends, telling me post in order to drum something up or pick a fight, and me posting a completely arbitrary vote-post as a result that took all of 10 seconds to do. I think it fulfilled its role nicely.)

[Guido Crescendo]

@Guido, smallpeoples, cjdrum: If you had to lynch someone right now, who would it be and why?
@Guido: Who are you a hydra of?

1. Guido A thinks VitaminR is most likely scum circa our last post and I think his reasoning is solid; though I'm a bit annoyed he didn't vote since my previous vote was solely placed to stir things up. I will rectify that now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: VitaminR

2. If we see a benefit to revealing that information later then we will but we'd prefer to remain anonymous for now because part of the point of being a hydra (like using an alt) is to experiment without it reflecting onto and/or being judged based off our primary accounts.

[Guido Crescendo]

Can you tell me how many games your main has played on mafiascum?

I won't say that but I will say that both heads meet the requirements to IC newbie games here on Mafiascum if either of us so chose to do so which should be enough to let you know that we know our respective asses from a pair of holes in the ground.

[Guido Crescendo]

Post 96 (Guido)
Can you give an example what kind of reactions you would have expected and what they would have told you?

I wasn't looking for anything in particular; by noticing it someone wold show that they're actually paying attention. If a vote occurred based off it evaluating the second or third vote cast to see if they were especially shameless or not.

Post 113 (Guido)
Wait. You have something to evaluate, yet you then start to use a different way to get more information? Why? And what information had you gained up till this point due to your ‘slip’?

The something I had to evaluate was a singular town read on Blackberry based on his post a few before #113 in this case he got credit for actually thinking about the game even if he came to the wrong conclusion. However, a single town read isn't hardly enough to play off of so I took the opportunity to do something else to pick up more information.

[Guido Crescendo]

I need to hear from Deity about my previous request, Vitamin needs to explain the last vote and I need to look at Yank before I can say for certain which players are scummy to me. DCJ and Guido are on it for certain. I'm having doubts if Chevre should be put on my scummy list or my null list. Cj and SmallPeoples are null.

I would be worried if no one found me scummy at all.

And why would that worry you?

[Guido Crescendo]

I need to hear from Deity about my previous request, Vitamin needs to explain the last vote and I need to look at Yank before I can say for certain which players are scummy to me. DCJ and Guido are on it for certain. I'm having doubts if Chevre should be put on my scummy list or my null list. Cj and SmallPeoples are null.

I would be worried if no one found me scummy at all.

And why would that worry you?

Because I am always scummy, even when I'm town. For anyone to not have a single scum read on me would make me think they were scum trying to buddy with me.
The fact someone does find me scummy means someone is at least TRYING to play. Even if they're failing miserably.

Sounds like a convenient out. "Sure that was scummy, but I'm always scummy looking and not scum so you totally can't hold that against me".

[Guido Crescendo]

cjdrum lurked, responded to the prod, and lurked again, which basically means he is lurking on purpose.
He is confirmed scum as far as I am concerned.

So you call cjdrum confirmed scum, it doesn't get any more sure than confirmed scum, and yet you keep your vote on me for the nonsense below. Is cjdrum your scum partner, be honest now.

Keeping my vote on Guido for two reasons really:

-Voted someone with a 'drunk' post then later claimed it was part of his clever plan to catch scum
-Scum slipped then later claimed that it was part of his clever plan to catch scum

To clarify, I don't put much faith into 'slips' myself, rather I dislike the act of claiming it was part of some plan. Also, he is a filthy hydra.

I'm pretty sure Guido A was drunk so no need for the air quotes. And it was part of a clever plan in the "do something so we have something to evaluate because the game is going nowhere" manner.

The second point needs further detail as well. -"Scum slipped" then later pointed out the slip when no one else noticed it and then arrogantly patted self on back for such a clever idea. The fact that we chose to bring it to light is not insignificant.

And finally we're a very clean hydra thank you.

[Guido Crescendo]

EBWOP: Actually, now that I think about it, I wouldn't object to a Guido or Deity lynch. Deity mostly because of those recent posts of his and the OMGUS voting,

Guido mostly because of being a hydra and thus being in the position to blame any slips of any kind off on whoever was in control at that moment in time.

And the whole "lol it was a fake slip isn't this clever" post, of course.

So there, I AM thinking about it. I just haven't decided who I'm ultimately going to vote as of yet (as I'm still leery of the Deity bandwagon that quickly formed, but I also have no real way to get a solid read on Guido).

Really, that's basically a concession that you can't or don't find anything that actually happened in the game scummy and instead are willing to policy lynch simply for being a hydra. Eleven pages in, a fair amount of content finally and you're willing to policy lynch. Maybe you should skip the pretense and just say what you mean, "Hey guys I'm cool with lazily lynching the biggest wagon because he's not me or my scum partner".

[Guido Crescendo]

>Guido
>Sounds like a convenient out. "Sure that was scummy, but I'm always scummy looking and not scum so you totally can't hold that against me"

Why is "I would be worried if no one found me scummy at all." more likely to be said by scum than town in the first place?

Subconscious recognition of role manifesting in-game. For example, other than our intentional slip I believe our play to be extremely town. I'm not being funny; I literally don't understand the arguments about why we are scum; they seem like people repeating what happened without any actual analysis or critical thought as to why the behavior occurred. To simplify I'm town and I simply don't think my play is scummy because I'm town and thus my play can't be scum motivated; if I'm scum maybe I make the mistake of acknowledging my scummy behavior.

>So you call cjdrum confirmed scum, it doesn't get any more sure than confirmed scum, and yet you keep your vote on me for the nonsense below. Is cjdrum your scum partner, be honest now.

Yes he is. Also, there is no point in trying to pressure a lurker or leaving my vote to sit uselessly on one. I'd much rather leave it to sit on you and watch you try to attack it even though I just explained why it is still on you.

You said confirmed; confirmed literally means I am completely sure he is scum. If I'm completely sure someone is scum I'm moving my vote there in a heartbeat and hollering my head off to get them lynched; it's not as if we're a day away from deadline and you have to compromise to get a lynch you have all the time in the world to get a lynch of "confirmed scum". But apparently that's too hard or something and you'd rather lynch the hydra with the oddball playstyle because you don't quite get it.

[Guido Crescendo]

Yeah, I kinda was hinting at a policy lynch, Guido, but the fact I'm torn between voting you or Deity proves I'm willing to give you a chance. I just don't like the concept of never being able to get a solid read on you, since you could in fact blame it on the other person being drunk or something else. It's hard enough for me to trust ONE person, much less 2 or more sharing the same account (body).

You don't have to trust two people; you have to trust the one slot because all our actions reflect equally upon us. Furthermore, your argument is entirely hypothetical; sure we

could

use a complicated method of blame shifting to try and clear our name; just like you or anyone else

could

WIFOM every argument you make. "Oh, I did that because it was scummy and thus scum would never do it." But it's not a valid argument to lynch someone for that until they actually do it.

[Guido Crescendo]

Well I never said it was anything but hypothetical. I deal in the realm of possibilities. Being a thinker and all (even if not everything I think about is substantial).

But that's nonsensical; nearly anything is a possibility. Do you plan on lynching random player β because there's a possibility they might claim scum later in the game?

[Guido Crescendo]

@Guido: Is Dark's argument scummy or are you just nitpicking?

Yeah I think given the context it is scummy; it would provide theoretical justification to place a vote on anyone without having to have a valid reason. And considering he was setting it up to possibly place a vote on me it looks like to me he was trying to give himself space to slide on the biggest wagon. DCJ has steadily moved his way into my top three or so suspects, yes.

[Guido Crescendo]

Also, I was wondering if VitaminR is still your preferred lynch?

Four posts in the last eight days or so; and absolutely no content to suggest our prior assumptions were incorrect, he's certainly up there with DCJ.

DCJ's latest point is just a continuing development in his bizarre world; homie, I don't care where the hell you learned to play mafia. I do care that you're limping onto the biggest wagon of a pro-town player for the twofold reasons of "well he might do something scummy later" and "he's actually thinking about what I'm writing, oh shit, should probably get him lynched before he gets me lynched". I mean it's completely ridiculous that you seemingly granting Tomie town points and then admonish us for doing the exact same thing.

Yankcane and smallpeople votes are being wasted; they should tell me whether they prefer VitaminR or DCJ to lynch so we can get a counter-wagon going up in here. If all else fails I will suport a cjdrum lynch on lurker grounds, but that alone feels lame and it's a last resort for me.

[Guido Crescendo]

Guido, do me a favor and stop. Just stop.
Bizarre world? Well, real life is bizarre I suppose. But you should care where I learned to play mafia, since that would mean my playstyle wouldn't match up with someone who plays here all the time. It's meta. Deal with it.

Bad Analogy Time: If you were born on the island of Togo and then moved to the States and broke a law over here you don't get off if you argue, "I didn't know that was against the law". Same thing here, I don't care where you came from and you don't get a pass from doing scummy things because "I ain't from around these parts".

Besides, you can't honestly look me in the eye and tell me you haven't done a single scummy thing this entire game. Or rather, both of you.

We have not done a single scummy thing this entire game. Our actions have been pro-town in trying to draw a reaction in a motionless game and then evaluating the ensuing fracas. Our actions are being misinterpreted as scummy by players lacking in experience, intellect, or a town role PM. Why don't you tell me which category you belong in.

--

Guido: wat? I'm voting smallpeoples because he's lurking. If anything he should be included in your list. VitaminR was afk for a while but I want to see what his re-read brings.

You're clearly not getting a smallpeople lynch; hence it makes sense to consolidate on wagon that might actually do something productive.

--

Unless you want to claim that you tried the 'slip' twice, then he did respond to it. If this is the case, I'd love to hear why this should be believed.
Also, why no mention of me?

I didn't say he didn't respond just that his response didn't move my needle. Chevre already explained the point about the first slip,

VitaminR, about GC's apparent slip: interestingly enough, I've seen this done elsewhere and be a mislynch. If he had said "werewolf," I would be much more suspicious, but I see "mafia" as a generic term for anyone anti-town.

It's also the reason I specifcally used werewolf in my intentional slip because mafia is still used as a catch-all for plenty of people and could be dismissed while I wanted people to catch on to the intentional slip.

And why didn't we address you? Basic psychology. You appear to be emotionally invested in our mislynch and to argue with you would likely cause you to re-trench and defend your positions and thus become committed to them and that's the opposite of what we want. Thus my preference is to deal with the scummy players taking advantage of the wagon and hope in time that you'll take another look and the game and properly re-evaluate.

[Guido Crescendo]

We are the ‘easy’ lynch, that much is apparent, and the town is lazily trundling towards our lynch. Unacceptable. Step back and see how smoothly this disaster is happening, plz.

It’s rather boggling that we try something different and immediately there's much freaking out. It seems like those on our wagon that are town (if you are there) are trying waaaaaay too hard to see something that isn’t there. I feel that the wagon built on us is a combination of over-zealous townies who are *convinced* that they found something when, in fact, they’re latching onto the first thing that stuck out to them. I’d like to think that some of you are town, but the fact that this seems to be going off without much of a hitch, shows that it’s likely one, or maybe both, of the scum teams are neatly pushing the wagon along.

And that’s freakin’ frustrating.

So tell me if I’m wrong, but the case against us seems to boil down to one silly little drunk post, and one fishing-for-reaction post in early game?

Have you seen scum get caught in something like this before? Does this actually make sense that we are playing towards a scum win con? Or are you just jumping on us because our posts made you notice us? Don’t scum usually attempt to blend in to the crowd? I say in the posts that people are referencing most (drunk, fake-slip); we did the exact opposite of ‘laying low’. Think. There's still a lot of time before deadline.

As for Vitamin, he has parked his vote on us and given very little aside from that in the ways of scum-hunting. He claimed we’ve made both wolf and mafia slips? Lolwat? Lazy play often equals scummy play and I highly encourage more pressure on him. I'm going to reread and see if I can find anything I missed before.

[Guido Crescendo]

btw i'm gonna quickhammer Guido without a claim if he gets to L-1. You may attack me in advance for this if you like.

Horrible horrible horrible. How does this make any sense if you are town?

Yeah that makes sense, I suppose. I would prefer if you got a claim out of him instead of quick-hammering, but I can't control your vote I suppose.

Double horrible. Holy crap. I mean, I was kind agreeing with Guido B in thinking DCJ was scummy when he (Guido B) and DCJ were having their back-and-forth earlier, but DCJ just shrugging and going, “well, you should get a claim from Guido... but I guess a quickhammer is okay” cements it for me. The fact that there's no questioning or outrage in that decision at all is downright baffling.

DCJ: scum.
Vitamin: scum.
Kill them all.

[Guido Crescendo]

This game has been painful to skim and honestly, there isn't much substance. A lot of petty arguments and not much else. This game needs a flip more than anything right now.

Unvote
Vote: Guido

I agree with whoever said that claims in this game are generally fruitless especially D1.

The Scum Brosius credo in a nutshell; why be good when you can be lazy?

Someone hammer and watch him flip scum. O;

And you're just a fucking moron; but you already knew that. I bet you're just overjoyed you're likely to make it out of D1 for what's probably about the third time ever.

~~

Claim: Monk. Now who wants to set themselves up to be lynched tomorrow by hammering me, hmm?

[Guido Crescendo]

Won't everybody just claim mason or monk then?

At which point they'll be counter-claimed and lynched for being scum; did you really even try to think this through before you posted it?

[Guido Crescendo]

Just to reiterate about Guido (from reading Dark & Cirno's posts on this page)... the Werewolves will kill Guido anyways,

so there's no point in wasting a LYNCH on him

. I'm highly suspect of the fact neither of you care to realize this, or maybe you just don't want to point it out? X_x

Maybe if I make it nice and big they'll actually read it.

--

That puts him at L-1

since you said that they can be Werewolves or Mafia as well.

Wrong, I cannot be a Werewolf, that's whole point of claiming Monk. Essentially, unless you had some compelling reason to believe I was specifically Mafia the odds that I'm scum just dropped 50%.

--

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Darkcoffeejazz

I've already noted several reasons why I think DCJ is scum and his willful ignorance in continuing to try to lynch me doesn't help the matter. Since for some reason no one has any reason in VR and at least BB will support a DCJ lynch that's where my vote is moving to.

[Guido Crescendo]

I know for a fact that you being a Mason and Mafia/Werewolve chances are high.

My role says so, I won't go in-depth.

I know for a fact that your IQ is less than what my thermostat is currently set at.

Your role says nothing of the sort; unless you want to counter-claim Monk. Do you want to counter-claim my Monk claim? Please, feel free to do so.

[Guido Crescendo]

If incoherency and fraud were Olympic events we'd be playing the national anthem of DeityKabuto right now.

[Guido Crescendo]

Please explain the case.

Also we have 5 days. It's not like we have 10 hours to deadline.

Read the earlier posts in the game.

But this one post in particular made me chuffle.

Guido>"Because I am always scummy, even when I'm town."

You do realize that DCJ said that and not us? And that we called him out on that?

Care to try again, you chucklefuck?

[Guido Crescendo]

These Deity votes are scummy as hell. He obviously is super-confused about something and feels like a really easy target for scum.

Sadly, I have to agree, as funny as it is to watch him FREAKOUT~!

[Guido Crescendo]

WHY ALL OF YOU SHOULD BE VOTING DCJ:
1) He claims to always be scummy and thus gives himself a back door for all future scummy behavior. It’s also a mindset more likely to come from scum; we’re town and I think we’re simpy being misunderstood. DCJ thinks he looks scummy, perhaps because he is scum.
2) Inconsistent reasoning and poor logic in his cover when he throws down a vote on the biggest wagon.
3) This truly dreadful post where he completely fails to take a stance on the most important non-player related facet of the game. “Gee, I’d probably like a claim but you do whatever you want because I won’t get in trouble for it.”
4) I actually don’t have the town read on DK that Guido A does, but as far as I can tell this is another shameless easy vote on a bad player who seems to be under pressure from everyone.

Vote, vote, vote!

[Guido Crescendo]

I haven’t consulted Guido A recently but I really think that DK is a Werewolf-Mason and hence why he’s made so many bad assumptions. As far as I can tell the defense of him amounts to “too incompetent to be scum” and we all know that’s an invalid reason to clear someone. About the only thing stopping me from voting him is that there’s no backdoor win available in that he can’t be mafia.

I’ve got to say I agree with Cirno about cjdrum trying to push away blame for the mislynch being mighty scummy. In particular how he claimed to be enlightened and now he claims it was just to get any lynch. Cjdrum has to be lying in one of those two spots. I also don’t find his attempted wall post response convincing either.

VOTE: cjdrum

[Guido Crescendo]

I will blindly follow you everywhere you go, Thor. Someone has to have a better handle on this game then me. Not thinking DeityKabuto is scum, just a moron. Yank seems far too singleminded with his vote just lying about on smallpeople.

Vote: YankCane

[Guido Crescendo]

I will blindly follow you everywhere you go, Thor. Someone has to have a better handle on this game then me. Not thinking DeityKabuto is scum, just a moron. Yank seems far too singleminded with his vote just lying about on smallpeople.

What's your read on Scott? Why Yank over him?

Because you claimed that the vote on Scott was mostly just an OMGUS vote and we expected you to move your vote to where we felt most of your actual argumentation had gone. Coincidentally, the other Guido asked to vote Chevre after her attempt to find scum based off connections to one scum when there are two scum teams AND some of her suspects could not be aligned with the player in question. However, I told him that since he/we agreed to sheep you it would be tacky to immediately break that vow so I'm very pleased to be able to do this then...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Chevre

[Guido Crescendo]

I'm here, but I don't really have much to say. I feel like this game especially with all the claims out is completely based off of flips and not scumhunting (not just this specific game, the setup in general).

Chevre needs to die. That would help with the replacement problem too =)

I like this plan. Votevotevote.

[Guido Crescendo]

@Guido - you're ducking Cirno's question. She wanted you to state or quote your case vs. Chevre.

Chevre "found scum" in a two scum game based solely off connections to one scum player and two of those players couldn't even be partnered with them. Thus Chevre's attempt at scum hunting was blatantly fraudulent and just trying to earn town cred for scumhunting and not actually trying to hunt scum. The other point of the case is that we're following you blindly.

[Guido Crescendo]

Yes, and how many of those posts have been confusing to town? You claim mason and use that whenever you are really getting attacked. I see what you are doing as trying to confuse the townies by jumping around, making shoddy cases on people and then flip flopping on people knowing if they are scum or not, it amazes me that you weren't lynched when the town mason was discovered when it seems to me you are a mafia mason. Whether or not I am correct I don't know, but the way I look at it, you are not at all being very helpful to the town.

I am not a Mafia Mason, why can't you just trust me instead of floundering in pathetic theories. I never lie about anything in Mafia,

if you'd ask me to claim scum I would.

Please go ahead and claim scum.

[Guido Crescendo]

Actually, there's no reason both monks should have avoided both NKs from wolves that's idiotic.

Vote: Guido

Except we are the Monks (verified by the complete lack of counterclaims) which means we literally cannot be Werewolves. I have no idea why they've chosen not to kill us but it's irrelevant since we cannot be Werewolves. And the Mafia have no incentive to night kill us because they can always accuse us of being Mafia and presumably they want to kill the Werewolves at night which means killing players other than us. Hence, "Guido is still alive must be scum" is wrong on every level.

Real crap logic there Scotty-boy.

[Guido Crescendo]

I asked my other head to try and figure out who the mafia were and he has been sad and pathetic and not done so. I'm pretty confident that DK is a werewolf and his slip just seals the deal. That being said if we lynch him we start the next day in 3/2 LYLO and we need to lynch correctly twice to win; I don't like those odds so I think we need to bring down the mafia. I don't think Muffin is mafia because of his stupid claim and I don't think cirno and cjdrum make much sense as mafia together. From there I'm trying to piece together which team of cirno, cjdrum, SB, and andrew makes the most sense.

[Guido Crescendo]

In the first place blindly trusting anybody at this point is stupid. Secondly, blindly trusting

you

of all people is even stupider. Take this as me fully supporting a DK lynch after we kill a mafia.

Well yes, since he's the wolf. I agree with my other half that scum outing themselves as our monk partner would make very little sense and is enough to keep them off the block for now. Of the 4 remaining, we are disagreeing on SB. I feel he's phoning it in and his confusion with the setup a few pages back was indicative of scum not paying attention. My other half believes he is genuine/town, so I guess we'll table that for now.

That leaves 3: Cirno, Cj, and Andrew. I think andrew’s call of dissonance or whatever BS that is, is a fabricated argument. To be honest, my other half has played 90% of this game. You are waving your hands and trying to prey on the fear of hydras as something different and scary. And where’s your vote? If you think we are scum, then why are you holding on to your vote? You are waiting for a popular wagon to arise and jump on. Pair that with the fact that Yank was quite the ineffective player...

Vote: andrew94

[Guido Crescendo]

No.

If we lynch mafia, and two townies die tonight, then a townie volunteers themself for the lynch tomorrow. That is optimal play.

Muffin has it right and that's only if scum are too incompetent to score at least one crosskill when there's only six players.

Scott, I know you don't want to bus andrew but I think it's time you went ahead and did it anyways.

[Guido Crescendo]

Apologies about the delays. We have two points that we agree on.

1) Muffin is highly likely town
2) The player slots for cjdrum and cirno are not scum together.
This means that given we're town that Scott is scum with one of bvoight or cirno.

We'll be back sometime later with more and a vote.

[Guido Crescendo]

Sonofabitch, knew we shouldn't have written Muffin off so quickly. Well played. I'm guessing cirno/Muffin?