Open 284: Tit for Tat (Over)

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: AurorusVox

because bad vote reasoning is bad.

Who SERIOUSLY votes for a No Lynch? And the fact that you're still pushing it (in comparison to Uite who is asking other people different questions) allows me to skip RVS entirely.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm still liking my vote.

Vox, I see you trying to distance yourself from a mistake here, so I'm going to keep my vote on you. Nobody SERIOUSLY votes for an RVS No Lynch unless it's their first mafia game, and I can't believe that you taking that seriously wasn't you trying to push a lynch prematurely.

[DemonHybrid]

It has nothing to do with whether you mistook it for being 12p or 13p; regardless of the setup and number of players, it's strange that you'd take a No Lynch vote in RVS seriously and vote for it, pegging the player as scummy. I'm not buying the unvote and backing away from ConSpiracy's vote either. That's just how I feel.

[DemonHybrid]

I feel like you made an extremely scummy move and then you tried to distance yourself from it.

Right now, that's the scummiest thing I've found all game and that's where my vote is placed. I don't know why you're so frazzled at it.

The NL was an obvious RVS vote and you tried to pin it as scummy. After being called out, you've backed away from the vote. That's my argument, nothing more, nothing less.

[DemonHybrid]

EBWOP: There is NOTHING you can do at the moment to convince me that your play so far has NOT been scummy. Other people could be scummier than you; I would change my vote. Your play could improve; I COULD change my vote, but the scumminess of yout move will remain throughout the game. That will not change.

[DemonHybrid]

No.

With this logic, if you flip town, you'd shock me.

In fact, lets take a majority vote. Who here thought that ConSpiracy's NL vote was particularly scummy because he was trying to stop any and all voting analysis?

[DemonHybrid]

unvote

i actually like post 66, and it makes DH look pretty scummy.

i heart drk.

Because he's assuming ConSpiracy is 100% scum and is using No Lynch to confuse town? That IS the basis of his argument: That ConSpiracy is preemptively scum and is using No Lynch to confuse the rest of scum.

I want you to seriously listen to what you just said. Like, take a step back and listen to it.

[DemonHybrid]

EBWOP: rest of town.

My bad.

[DemonHybrid]

Vox, is that not the basis of your argument? He's scum and he's trying to confuse town by voting No Lynch?

[DemonHybrid]

There's a huge difference between building cases and pointing out suspicious acts, and saying someone is 100% scum. My point is that voting for no one has a scum motivation as I have already shown. Therefore I voted for the person who did it. I think the no lynch vote was scummy, and ConSpiracy is scummy for it, but I am not saying he is 100% confirmed needs-to-die-today scum.

Look at this post:

No.

With this logic, if you flip town, you'd shock me.

In fact, lets take a majority vote. Who here thought that ConSpiracy's NL vote was particularly scummy because he was trying to stop any and all voting analysis?

My logic is sound.

Scum know who is town and who is scum: Y/N
Scum do not therefore vote randomly: Y/N

A vote for no one prevents a vote on a someone: Y/N
A vote for no one prevents connections between the voter and a someone: Y/N

4 Yesses = A vote on no one circumvents scum's predicament of not being able to randomly vote

You take ConSpiracy's vote and you do not apply just scum motivation behind it; instead, you are using the basis of him being scum behind your core logic. You're saying, basically, "In order for Conspiracy's vote to be scum, he would NEED to have been scum in the first place, or else my logic doesn't make sense". It's circular logic.

For him to be scum,

he would need to have been scum

when making his "Random vote", so says you.

I'm asking for you to prove that bolded.

As far as my thoughts on everyone else:

aaah is alright; I'm keeping an eye on him but I think his shakiness of the english language puts himself into scummy positions. I've sort of ganged up on him in the last game we were in because his presentation of the language created straw man arguments and circular logic, so I'm being more careful when assessing him this time.

Antihero needs to post more. The lurkiness is getting to me; IIRC, he's not usually this lurky.

CES is biting on the aaah wagon due to scummy wording. It's a little alarming that he's discrediting our exchange as being worthless information, so I'm not so sure about him at the moment. He also needs to post more.

CS started out okay, but he's in the realm of picking out fake scumslips and tunneling where it's not needed. Under Antihero, he's probably my third suspicion. It wouldn't surprise me, as well, if you were scum and were RVS-bussing scum CS.

DRK is okay in my opinion. Nothing really has scum motivation, I feel. Same with RC.

Uite is like AV lite, only more lurky. I need more information and possibly meta on him; somehow, I feel as if you are scum, AV, then he wouldn't be, and vice versa. That's just a feeling, though, so I can just cast that away.

DJ is...alright, but he needs to give us more information too. Everything is an offhand comment or a criticism.

Don Johnson: can you give us a top 3 scumlist please?

mothrax, he said himself clearly that he voted him because he is scum, knows who scum and town is and tried to deny everyone information by voting No Lynch. So, how can you mistake that fact? Go back and read again.

SV is alright again, but he's another aaah biter. I don't think that means much in his case; he's doing decent scumhunting. Silver's also okay in my eyes, even though he might be on the wrong track with his scumhunting.

[DemonHybrid]

Sorry for not giving mafia the attention it deserves, my major work has been killing me, but I'll start to be on site more.

[DemonHybrid]

Then why didn't you say that in the first place? Hence why I'm voting you.

You started out, again, with this post, which uses the circular logic that you used which I placed in front of you and asked you to explain:

No.

With this logic, if you flip town, you'd shock me.

In fact, lets take a majority vote. Who here thought that ConSpiracy's NL vote was particularly scummy because he was trying to stop any and all voting analysis?

My logic is sound.

Scum know who is town and who is scum: Y/N
Scum do not therefore vote randomly: Y/N

A vote for no one prevents a vote on a someone: Y/N
A vote for no one prevents connections between the voter and a someone: Y/N

4 Yesses = A vote on no one circumvents scum's predicament of not being able to randomly vote

and took that and tried to run with it. But after I call you out, it's just "scum motivation". What gives?

Scum motivation means you had a null read on him before he made that No-Lynch vote, and you believe that him voting No-Lynch therefore incriminates him due to the scum motivation behind it. That's acceptable. But I'm voting you not for that anymore (My original vote was RVS and was because you found that scummy); but now I'm voting you because the above quote assumes that he was originally scum and that's WHY it's scummy. Because he knew who is scum and who is town and used that information to No-Lynch vote and to deny the players RVS information.

So, what gives? I'm not trying to tunnel here, but you can see my thought process, right?

[DemonHybrid]

Rephrasing this part: "Then why didn't you say that in the first place? Hence why I'm voting you."

to: "Why did you bring up the quoted post in the first place?"

because I'm hopped up on energy drinks like a boss.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm just confused as to why you guys don't seem to get this.

No.

With this logic, if you flip town, you'd shock me.

In fact, lets take a majority vote. Who here thought that ConSpiracy's NL vote was particularly scummy because he was trying to stop any and all voting analysis?

My logic is sound.

Scum know who is town and who is scum: Y/N
Scum do not therefore vote randomly: Y/N

The above assumes that he is scum. He is saying that ConSpiracy is scum and therefore knows who is town and who is scum and therefore can make a conscious decision to No Lynch vote and confuse the rest of he players.

A vote for no one prevents a vote on a someone: Y/N
A vote for no one prevents connections between the voter and a someone: Y/N

The above explains his No Lynch vote and applies it to the fact that he is already scum. Before this, he said that he has -scum motivation- in his No Lynch vote, but he never came right out and explicitly stated that he is scum.

4 Yesses = A vote on no one circumvents scum's predicament of not being able to randomly vote

Assumes that 4 yesses is the right way to go and that his logic above is true.

That red part is what I'm voting you for. How can you assume that he IS scum and that his move didn't just have scum motivation, and more importantly, why can't ANYONE see this?

[DemonHybrid]

Context: Voting for no one is scummy.
Cause: He voted no one.
Effect: Therefore I found him scummy.

Also, I get this point, but read my newer post. I'm not voting you because you're saying this, and I wouldn't be voting you if you said only this.

It's ironic that you're saying I'm getting cause and effect mixed up, because you added in a WHOLE new cause without either knowing it, or while slipping it, assuming you are scum.

[DemonHybrid]

Meh. If it's an in general thing, then I suppose it's just supplementary.

Unvote

[DemonHybrid]

Aye, I gotchya.

Trust me, I'm not like 99% of Mafiascum; I know when I'm wrong.

Antihero:

Top 3 scumreads, please.

What do you think of the AV/DH exchange?
What do you think of aaah and the heat on him? Please be specific on your thoughts of others' arguments against him.
What do you think of ConSpiracy?
Has anyone "scumslipped" in their play so far? If so, how?

And please explain your last post in greater detail. How did Shattered reverse his read and why is silverbullet scum to you?

[DemonHybrid]

FoS: silverbullet

Replacing out is NEVER indicative of malicious intent.

[DemonHybrid]

I see your HoS and raise.

Vote: silverbullet999

[DemonHybrid]

Oh.

Antihero's Replacement:

You are not exempt from answering the questions in post #158.

[DemonHybrid]

You know, the fact that you put your vote on me for defending who you believe is scum without even knowing the ALIGNMENT of said defendee really says something about your scumhunting, doesn't it?

[DemonHybrid]

You did something scummy. I FoSed you. Suspicion started.

You HoSed me for defending who you think is scum. I voted you for confirming what I FoSed you for. And then you voted me.

The BASIS of your argument against me is a fallacy; you should not know if aaah is scum at this point. Therefore, your argument against me is a fallacy, is null and void, and your vote should be on aaah.

So, please hang.

[DemonHybrid]

By the way, that's especially in lieu of the fact that the biggest wagon at the moment is on aaah.

[DemonHybrid]

I explained why I see scum motivation for replacement. I HoS you (hand of suspicion!) and you get scared and vote me in a sly poker way. I do the same.

Fear =/= suspicion due to your poor logic. aaah is playing his usual game. Not his usual town/scum game. But that "him replacing out in this game but not others" is awful because it seems like you're trying to reach out and grab anything that will take him down. It doesn't matter if he doesn't replace out of other games or not, in fact, that doesn't influence anything in this game at all. What if he had replaced out of his other game but stayed in this one?

The basis of my argument is that I saw scum motivation behind the replacement, you quickly misrep me stating that replacing alone does not give scum motivations... I reply and agree with what you state, and correct you by telling you what i actually said... and then you get defensive and vote me... how does any of this imply I know aaah is scum? Why are you even trying to manipulate the argument in question?

If it was JUST because you found scum motivation behind his replacing out, I wouldn't be voting you. But you pushed the issue and then HoS'd me for "protecting my buddy" without knowing anyone's alignment yet. Not only that, you VOTE me over aaah for that same argument, so either you know aaah's alignment or your logic is absolutely terrible. But I'd say that's safe grounds for a lynch.

I'm in no rush to end the day... why are you?

According to your logic (if you believe that I should die because I'm aaah's scumbuddy, and aaah has the most votes), your vote should be on aaah. I am not trying to rush the day. In fact, I can prove it as well: my vote is on you, not on aaah.

Basically, tl;dr overview:

You believe that I'm scum because aaah is scum and I'm his buddy, and I'm defending him.

aaah has the most votes.

You take your vote off of HIS wagon and place it on ME, saying that I should die because you think that I'm scum protecting aaah, my scumbuddy. Meanwhile, aaah's wagon sits there with the most votes.

What is wrong here, silver?

[DemonHybrid]

Is that why players that replace into a lot of games tend to have a disproportionate number of games as scum?

Replacing out is a mild scum tell. Considering how aaah handled the situation though, I would actually consider it to be a bit of a town tell here. As for his post, it does seem a bit on the IIoA side, but seems genuine enough.

Can you prove that with statistics?

Legitimate inquiry.

[DemonHybrid]

By the way, DRK, many +town points for you for looking it up and finding a solution.

[DemonHybrid]

Hmmm.... when was I on aaah's wagon? More slip-ups I see.

*Supports the ... (what's aaah's wagon called?)*

Oh, I'm sorry. I apologize, because you were talking so much about being glad that aaah was being wagoned that I just naturally assumed that you were on his wagon, like a good townie should. But you weren't, but that's okay; scum do that all the time.

Depends on if he's one of the leading wagons and is somewhat the focus of the town at that particular time.

Does DRK's revelation change this?

Once again you ignore my posts please read my reply to this once again.

I didn't ignore it.

Hell, if you want me to pick it apart more, I'd be glad to:

The basis of my argument is that I saw scum motivation behind the replacement, you quickly misrep me stating that replacing alone does not give scum motivations... I reply and agree with what you state, and correct you by telling you what i actually said... and then you get defensive and vote me... how does any of this imply I know aaah is scum? Why are you even trying to manipulate the argument in question?

1. It wasn't a misrep; it was a logical suspicion, for the reason that I posted.
2. What I posted was such: A replacement, in ANY context, is not indicative of any alignment. You think otherwise. I think that's scummy, so I FoSed/Voted you for it.
3. You imply that you know aaah's alignment when you voted me and completely ignored his wagon. If you think that he's scum, you should have put your vote on him the second you said you agree with his wagon. You should not have turned the guns on me. I don't even care when I get voted, but in this context, it's scummy of you, because you are creating the illusion of scumhunting while outputting inconsistent reads.
4. I'm not manipulating anything; you either misunderstand or you were caught in the act.

Nope I believe your scum for your over reaction to a simple vote and for ignoring basically all retorts that I've presented by trying to disclaim it on the above quote.

Now I said "replacement? But she didn't request replacement in my other game as of yet.... I sense evil motivations here..."
And she still has not requested replacement in said game. Thus reason number 1 is void.
There have been no indications of reason number 2 in her posts (even though you can still argue this) there is no hard evidence... thus I feel it's safe to void this as well.
This... by the amazing process of elimination leaves option 3...

I'll do you one better than an fos though..

you get the HOS... for trying to defend your buddy.

Funny...I must have been dreaming when this was posted.

Question
If I said guys.. I'm V/LA for three days in this game... and not in any others... and I'm perfectly active in said others... would you or would you not find it suspicious?

And to wrap things up, a straw man argument.

If you announce V/LA in a game but post in other games, you are lying.

If you replace out in one game but post in the others, that isn't indicative of a damn thing.

Pedit:

Doesn't see how answering a question like that = you get lots of town points... is this early buddying?

She took the effort and combed through Mafia Discussion. I think there's less town motivation in stopping at "Nah, I just heard from a ton of people and it's the general site consensus".

But yeah, way to throw out suspicions like candy.

[DemonHybrid]

-The Ever Arrogant Hybrid of a Demon

annoying

Yes one post where I actually state I approve the wagon def means I'm talking about it all the time.

You approve of it, though. And there was a post of you stating it. Therefore...as one of your main growing suspicions, especially with the replacement as so scummy as you think it is, don't you think your vote should be on him?

hah

Do I not prove a point though? That you're pushing wagon suspicion without voting?

no please read my iso number 20.

And I'm the arrogant one.

DRK posted sitewide evidence and you choose to arbitrarily believe what you think is right?

Let's not readily forget the order of events so quickly eh?
You fos me, I hos you, your reaction? you vote me in a sly way completely ignoring the retort so, I vote you.

But you're saying I voted you cause you HoSed me. I voted you cause you pushed the aaah suspicion very baselessly, and the vote for me is just icing on the cake. There's no correct logic in voting for me if you believe that I'm aaah's buddy and that's WHY you suspect me, as of your ISO post #20...yeah, that post. You remember it; you asked me to look it up.

No, I like that aaah is being put under pressure, for the 4th time AGAIN his wagon was high enough as is... AGAIN I ask you why you want this day to end so early?

And again, I don't. You've completely ignored my point.

What's that quote in relation to? My vote on you? wait.. nope.. it's what then.. an hos... oh yeah that's right.

Translation: "Oh shit, you're right." ? The quote was to show what you started suspecting me for. That's what a HoS is....hand of -suspicion-.

You've said nothing just now. Just the equivalent of dumbfounded babbling.

If you replace out of one game without mentioning anything prior to it then I'm going to find it suspicious, because as I stated in iso 20 there's mainly 3 reasons that I forsee for such action.

You completely ignored the fact that I called out your straw man argument.

A.

This is more suspicion cast on you... not her.

B. You asked her a question, she mentioned it was somewhere and did some slight research to find it cause she wanted to make sure she was right... she did... nothing overly special here.

Yeah, because when two people are scumbuddies, one is less scum than the other.

[DemonHybrid]

I forgot my sarcasm tag on that last point.

[DemonHybrid]

For the last time read my reply to this and at this point hell no i'm more than happy with the reaction you've given from my vote.

The fact that your suspicion was based on me being aaah's buddy and defending him still stands. Your words, not mine.

Do you just like to contionously ignore the reason i've stated for this already?

Actually, you haven't answered it at all. You just keep pushing the fact that your original suspicions on me were because of defending who you thought was a scum aaah to the side and claiming that you're suspecting me and have always suspected me because of my reaction to your vote, which doesn't make any sense.

The general consensus it seemed according to several people was that it was a null read (Upon skimming it)... and it's not under the specific scenario that we are in now, honestly her later reaction drops the whole thing completely and it's your reaction I'm more than interested in now.

It

is

a null read, that's my point. And it doesn't matter the specifics; replacing out will always be a null read despite the pressure, lack of or past history with replacing out.

Also, the fact that you completely dropped your suspicion on him (aaah is a male, check his gender tag) and won't even acknowledge it is what I'm trying to get you and everyone else to realize.

Then why did you not vote me until after I hosed you, why did you bother giving me a fos? I don't tend to bother with fos hos or whatever else there is and the hos was how I am as I've been throughout this game... your reaction you vote me... thus it's gladly returned and we get this.

If you had posted that without a HoS on me, I still would have voted you. It was your suspicion of aaah due to his desire to replace out that I was voting for, not your HoS on me. You don't seem to understand that. The HoS on me is icing on the cake and is proof that your vote shouldn't have stayed on me, IF we go by your original logic of "I'm suspecting DH because he's buddying with who I think is scum" instead of voting the person who you ACTUALLY thought is scum.

Your saying that I should add my vote to aaah... yet if I do that aaah get's rather close to a lynch... thus highering the possibility for ending the day early... this is inconsistent.

I'll say it again for like the 5th time.

IF you really did believe what you were saying and aaah was suspect to you, you should have voted aaah instead of going "OH, yeah, totally approve of that aaah wagon, but I'll keep my vote off of everyone for now! Yep, totally scumhunting." The fact that you voted ME instead is icing on the cake that you are doing no such scumhunting.

I don't get why you think I want to end the day early; I'm pointing out inconsistency in your logic and all you do is keep changing the subject onto imaginary scumtells.

Really? Someone's getting pissed... I wonder whyy...

1. Not one bit of that post shows anger.
2. You again ignored my point.

No I asked a question with a slight relation to the issue that was at hand.

Was your "V/LA" example a straw man argument or not?

Please learn the definition of buddying up to someone. (Maybe there's some special definition or some standard definition that you are following thus I'll give you mine)
Buddying up - The action of complimenting/praising/similar such action (ala buddying up) in order to gain "points" from that player.

Please learn the difference between "buddying" and "buddying up" then, in order to make your English more concise, readable and understandable. Consider that point retracted, now answer my other questions:

1. I know why you would suspect me now. But what gives, with your original suspicions? Why you originally voted me? Was that or was that not because of me "buddying" with aaah, who you thought was scum (this is a yes or no answer question)?
2. Was your V/LA example a straw man argument or not? This is also a yes or no answer question.
3. In fact, what the hell is up with you thinking that aaah is town now, or at the very least, less scum? And what reaction of his convinced you of such?

[DemonHybrid]

Initial suspicion, yes... your over reaction pushed that initial suspicion passed it

Still, what I am voting you for is that little bit of suspicion between your HoS and your vote for me. Such is my point.

I completely disagree with this quote... nothing's written in stone m8.

Then at least understand what I was saying. I'm sure other people here would also disagree with you.

No you keep ignoring MY own point.. I don't know what the vote count on aaah is or was currently (upon checking the last vote count aaah was at L-2...) Why the hell would I push aaah into L-1 or even hammer him by accident when it is not my aim to end the day asap.

IIRC, aaah was at L-2. I would understand if he was L-1. But there are no special roles in this game; he is not hated and surely a quickhammerer would be lauded for doing such. So, why were you going against what you were supposed to do in mafia? If you suspect someone and agree with the wagon, you vote for them. That's not what I want, specifically, but your suspicions of aaah and your actions don't match up.

*face palm*
You ignored mine...

I ignored your "Someone's getting pissed" point? Yeah, cause that's worth a comment. /sarcasm

the only difference is up... I quoted only your post and remarked on it... don't see how the confusion was made that I linked you as scum buddies at all in the post...

Buddying up implies that you are buddying with someone without their knowledge or consent whereas "buddying" with someone, especially in the context "This is early buddying" implies that both parties are involved.

no, you gained my vote by voting me.

Understood, but read the first point of this post.

no but undoubtedly you will disagree with your logicz

A straw man argument is taking a somewhat similar but not fully identical argument in which one is right and using their logic in that argument for their basis of the original argument, in case you didn't know.

For example...taken from the wiki page of Straw man argument:

Person A: Our society should spend more money helping the poor.
Person B: Studies show that handouts don't work; they just create more poverty and humiliate the recipients. That money could be better spent.

In this case, Person B has specified Person A's position (more funding) into "more handouts", which is easier for Person B to defeat.

Your V/LA example is superficially similar to someone replacing out, but does not prove your point at all; it only creates the illusion that it weakens mine.

Would you agree, then, after hearing this, that it's a straw man argument?

The only thing dropped for aaah is the replacement issue i had because he A. stated his reasons for replacement and B. somehow one way or another fixed it and is still in.

Noted. But you still like his wagon?

[DemonHybrid]

By the way, I apologize for the walls. I fucking hate them, too, but I have no choice.

[DemonHybrid]

A. I'm unpredictable >:D ?
B. "I don't know what the vote count on aaah is or was currently "
C. There were a few people mentioning their suspicion of aaah anyway

Well...that's easily fixed. You look at the last votecount, and count up to the newest post. Do your own vote count.

So what if other people mentioned their suspicion? If you had legitimately believed that aaah is scum, you should have at least considered voting him and before me.

Eh? You voted me after my HoS... upon which I voted you. I don't get your point.

The HoS was suspect because you suspected me for being aaah's buddy when you didn't even know aaah's alignment. You can talk about how you voted me for my vote on you till you're blue in the face but it doesn't change the suspicion origin.

No you ignored the point where I told you that quote was from the hos... not my vote.

And my point is that the suspicion started there. It was for something completely different.

Nonetheless this is unimportant

Correct.

I dunno... I don't really see how it's "weakened" your argument... it's more or less the same thing except the person requests replacement (and using my top 3 reasons)... you eliminate 2 of the 3 at the time thus leaving that.

It's not the same thing...V/LA still means that you're in the game. Replacement means you aren't. It is frowned upon if you request V/LA in one game but post in all of your others. It is not frowned upon if you replace out of one game but stay in your others.

Yes

And so, do you believe that we're buddies?

[DemonHybrid]

/shrug.

Sorry.

[DemonHybrid]

The tl;dr version:

He says aaah is suspect for replacing out in this instance.
I tell him it's null.
He tells me I'm aaah's buddy and HoS's me for defending him.
I vote silver.
He votes me for voting him.

Then we go back and forth a shitload. His arguments are pretty fallacy-filled, and I miss information now and then by assumption.

[DemonHybrid]

Sorry: I tell him it's null by a FoS.

[DemonHybrid]

No, it's fine. A lot of good information.

I think overall, I completely agree with you on the aaah wagon. I'm in class right now, so I need to take time later to analyze the rest of your post, but I think above all, you strengthen my Uite read (Uite has been iffy and seems to be coasting).

I'll get back to this.

[DemonHybrid]

You don't say. That's all you've been commenting on recently.

Do you seriously have no other thoughts about other back and forths? Even if they are boring? No information gained at all from them?

[DemonHybrid]

So, no opinions at all, and tunneling on aaah. Noted.

[DemonHybrid]

I don't like the way this aaah wagon started and I don't like how it's continuing, regardless of whether aaah has been scummy or not.

aaah is a solid null read; he played this exact way in the last game I played with him and he turned out town but I don't have a lot of meta on him. He seems to have a naturally scummy playstyle; I can't read him correctly.

[DemonHybrid]

*Will ask one single question in hopes that it doesn't become another face/off*

aaah is a solid null read;

... Then why did you want me to put him on L-1...

You're not the sharpest.

[DemonHybrid]

Fantastic way of avoiding the answer!
Huzzah!

I already explained it like 50 times, and each time, you paint the false picture that I want aaah lynched instead of me wondering why you didn't hop on his wagon if you liked it so much. I'm not sure if that's just you being dumb or you're feigning ignorance to misrepresent me, or both.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote, Vote: Cogito Ergo Sum

Absolutely tunneling with no logic behind it. No other comments except on the person who is an easy lynch, scum or town. This is not townie scumhunting; this is scummy tunneling.

[DemonHybrid]

My vote grows more confident.

silver, you are just beyond stupid at this point, so I'm going to stop paying attention to your votes. Maybe if you learned to read, then went back and actually read, I'd be inclined to perhaps read your posts, but until then, forget it. Someone wake me up when he starts showing intelligence.

[DemonHybrid]

*to your replies, EBWOP

[DemonHybrid]

Also, with the recent happenings, aaah is upgraded to misinterpreted and scummy town, silver is upgraded to extremely retarded town who doesn't read, CES should die and I still have a big eye open following Uite.

CES, really, read your own ISO. Please tell me where you actually made a conscious decision to scumhunt other than talk mindlessly about aaah after you hopped onto the hate brigade on him.

[DemonHybrid]

im calling CES scum 100% vote CES

Hmm.

Back to null again. You're absolutely impossible to read sometimes.

[DemonHybrid]

I can't help it if I caught scum early, DH. I might've had more to say if more interesting things had happened.

im calling CES scum 100%

vote CES

Do you disagree with the logic put forth in #291?

You do realize that my read on you doesn't stem from whether or not aaah is scum, but rather at your complete lack of doing anything BUT trying to get aaah lynched since you latched onto your suspicion of him?

[DemonHybrid]

Demon post 299... answer... now...

You've shown great stupidity so far and I honestly think you'd be more careful and more calculated and at least fucking read if you were definite scum. That's about it. I still don't think your advocation of the aaah wagon without action was a townish move but I have bigger fish to fry at the moment.

[DemonHybrid]

"

I'm not sure

if that's just you being dumb or you're feigning ignorance to misrepresent me, or both."

I am now sure that it's just you being dumb.

[DemonHybrid]

Then why is it an issue that I've decided?

Seriously. smh

[DemonHybrid]

Please stop. You're giving me a migraine from the annoyance.

[DemonHybrid]

...

Unvote

Prented that post never happened.

Were you drunk or something?

[DemonHybrid]

Don't worry, I just barely had to contain myself from drunk posting earlier. A little of the Song Contest thread got it.

[DemonHybrid]

The niggling doubt is:

if aaah was scum, she'd have no reason to make this proposal

. Hmm.

I still want to see her lynched

though.

Say what?

The wording of the first phrase is very strong; following that, you say you still want a lynch.

AV, can you do me a favor? Can you link me some of your scum meta?

[DemonHybrid]

Can't get into it exactly...

No, you are, or my vote will go right back on you.

[DemonHybrid]

None of this bullshit gut read stuff either. I want specific examples.

[DemonHybrid]

Yo people. I can give up my life and hammer myself if u guys think im mafia, if i flip town, then i would suggest to go for SV or DJ please.

Please do not self hammer as town. Ever.

everevereverever.

[DemonHybrid]

No, you are, or my vote will go right back on you.

Really... a threat of voting? Is this supposed to scare me or something?

I'm not going to willfully break rules to simply serve you demon... I've more than hinted at what you should look at if you care to put in any effort at all.

Idiot. I want an explanation for completely flipping your read from aaah scum to aaah town. You've given absolutely NO REASONING but "Oh...just cause. Nothing cryptic here, guys! Seriously."

[DemonHybrid]

Apologies.

I should stop looking at this thread for a little while so I can cool myself.

CES, silver and Uite are suspect. That is all.

[DemonHybrid]

Okay, I'm here and what the hell?

Catching up, Day 2 was a blur and I didn't know Day 3 started.

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: No Lynch

It's MyLo.

[DemonHybrid]

That's the worst fucking logic I've ever heard and probably the scummiest thing I've ever come across in mafia.

We'll no lynch and then I'm voting you, how's that sound?

[DemonHybrid]

So we lynch today and maybe we

give a doc a chance to give us an extra lynch

. Pure profit.

/facepalm

Look at you, looking for that quicklynch.

To the rest of you: you guys need to agree to no lynch. Before I bust my head open by headdesking so hard.

[DemonHybrid]

I really shouldn't forget I'm playing an Open.

Regardless, why don't you go ahead and explain how a no-lynch Today is useful given that we're lynching Hohum?

We can see a town flip and gain information from that. Narrow down the field, see if he really IS the right lynch.

How is it a bad thing, considering that if we lynch wrong, we lose?

[DemonHybrid]

You're missing my point.

No lynching gives us flip information. Information helps us in the lynch decision.

So, again, how the hell is no lynching a bad thing?

[DemonHybrid]

By the way, forget that there's even a jailkeeper in this game. That's a fuckload of useless WIFOM.

We are in a state where if we LYNCH WRONG, we LOSE. So what is wrong with obtaining all available information?

[DemonHybrid]

@DH
If you can think of someone don't say who, but can you think of any player in this game who, if they were to die tonight and flip town, it would change your opinion of whether or not Hohum is scum? (pretend the grammar in the previous sentence is correct)

Yes. It would solidify their reads.

No lynching gives us flip information.

1. WE WILL GET THAT INFORMATION AT SOME POINT. There's no point in getting it now since it

won't

help with the lynch

since we're lynching hohum

.

By the way, forget that there's even a jailkeeper in this game. That's a fuckload of useless WIFOM.

2. An extra lynch is the furthest thing from useless WIFOM!

So what is wrong with obtaining all available information?

3. Because the extra information is completely useless to us currently.

1. But it's CONFIRMED extra information from a townie! The analysis can help us much more than a shot-in-the-dark switcharoo backup-JK save can do.
2. All of this JK speculation IS though. It's too useless and enticing for town to make a conscious decision and I'd rather take the extra information to ensure that we don't mislynch, or at least have a smaller chance of mislynching. Perhaps hohum is a good lynch. Right now, I feel like I can't make that conscious decision since we're in MyLo and not LyLo, and that keeps playing in the back of my mind.
3. So, you'd rather bank on the miniscule chance that hohum is a scum jailkeeper and get the slight chance that the backup JKer will make a successful save over extra FREE information?

[DemonHybrid]

So DH, what do you think of the fact that Hohum hasn't posted yet?

Could mean a lot of things.

CES: If someone flips town, you know that they were at least being genuine and we could at least grasp something from their reads, that was my point.

[DemonHybrid]

Regardless, I'd like others' opinions, not just you two.

[DemonHybrid]

And his laptop dying doesn't support my call to No Lynch....how?

[DemonHybrid]

We don't need him to post to lynch him.

Seriously, does anyone else see what's wrong with this? -anyone-?

[DemonHybrid]

Well, look at that. Turns out I was right about rushing into the hohum lynch.

Wild ABSOL appears!

ABSOL uses headdesk! It's super effective! ABSOL faints!

[DemonHybrid]

jmj, your modding was fine. People make mistakes.

I'm angry at this game. Town's apathy and carelessness did them in.

[DemonHybrid]

Well, look at that. Turns out I was right about rushing into the hohum lynch.

Nope. I would've voted hohum tomorrow and we'd still have lost. No lynch was the wrong move.

Stubborn play. You and most of the town this game.

You can't be stubborn in mafia. This kind of stuff happens. hohum deserved a post, town deserved a no-lynch, but instead you guys went on a quicklynch spree and took out SV and hohum before everyone got a chance to weigh in. Mafia danced around the impulsiveness of town very easily and flawlessly.