Open 266-Pie E7 Mallow's Manor GAMEOVER

[Uite]

/confirm

I hope I won't have too much trouble keeping this game and Open 265 apart. I hope the same for the other players who are in both games.

[Uite]

VOTE: bv310

Last to confirm is always scum.

[Uite]

VOTE: andrew94

If even

I

can see that was an obvious joke, there's something wrong here.

[Uite]

I do have a sense of humour, but I've found out that it's decidedly different from other people's, especially on MS. I suspect it's a cultural thing.

And I have a history of looking too deep into jokes. They often have at the very least a grain of truth, so I like to analyse them.

bv310's obviously didn't contain anything, since he was obviously one upping me. The fact that Andrew decided to cast a semi-serious vote based on something without meaning worries me.

[Uite]

Personally I am liking charter or bv for scum, not shotty.

Interesting. Why are you still voting for Shotty then?

[Uite]

You didn't answer my question. Please do.

[Uite]

forgot, probably. I'm actively posting in like 6 games right now.

That's not an excuse. Being in that many games doesn't make it okay to "forget" about one of them.

Uite, what's your read on chesskid?

Kinda scummy. I've let him off the hook before on account of his obvious newbieness, but that was different than I'm seeing here. His "lurking" accusation is ridiculous, and I'm not sure I agree with his voting strategy. Normally I'd vote him for it, but seeing as he's at L-1 and the day is still young, I don't want to hammer.

uite, was ur vote a classic voting for buddy in rvs mode? then chainsaw defending him?

I'm not liking how that question presupposes that I'm scum. If I say yes, I'm admitting that I'm scum, if I say no, I'm still saying that I'm scum, just notvoting for my buddy. I don't like your disingenuousness. Scummmy.

as i said i dont get wth the joke is on about, so explain pls.

Just look at posts #16 and #17; bv310 basically echoes the reason for my vote, but with an extra qualifier. Since I, and I presume bv310 as well, know neither of those "facts" are real, bv310 is obviously joking when he explicitly claims his is.

[Uite]

Kinda scummy. I've let him off the hook before on account of his obvious newbieness, but that was different than I'm seeing here. His "lurking" accusation is ridiculous, and I'm not sure I agree with his voting strategy. Normally I'd vote him for it, but seeing as he's at L-1 and the day is still young, I don't want to hammer.

Upon rereading the game I referenced (Open 254), I see that what I said here is not entirely true. In that game, I let his

predecessor

, who he replaced shortly after, off the hook for obvious newbieness. That turned out to be the right call, as he was town there.

Also, I like my vote for Andrew more than a potential vote for Chesskid, what with Andrew's frivolous and disingenuous accusations.

[Uite]

The longest amount of time between posts was between #21 and #22, 5 hours and 36 minutes. The longest amount of time between any of your posts was between iso #4 and #5, 11 hours an 18 minutes. What is that figure of 16 hours based on?

Also, you have 17 out of 50 posts as fo this post. That's nowhere near "greater than everyone else in this game combined," though it does make you the most prolific poster.

Activity has been good and steady in this game so far. Perhaps you're forgetting that people have to go to school/work/bed every once in a while?

[Uite]

*shrug*. I like irl mafia. Forum mafia is often too slow for me.

Boo hoo. I come from a background of playing RL Mafia too. You don't see me whining about a "slow pace" when there is none.

Not sure what 16hour thing you're refering too

You make me go 16 hours without a post, I'm going to be pissed.

Seriously, do you read your own posts?

I feel like this is a massive sidetrack that doesn't go anywhere.

Actually, it's not. I'm pointing out how you're just making stuff up as you go along. Town has no need to do that.

[Uite]

I pulled a number out of my ass. That's probably how long I'm up each day, IDK. Seriously though, we're arguing about a number now. W.T.F.

Even if you did, that still means you're unaware of the content of your own posts. Also, confirming my point about making stuff up as you go along.

......Nice AtE there, and appeal to "town has no need to do that". LULZ

You can't refute that it's true. Your activity expectations are unreasonable, and town should always be speaking the truth.

[Uite]

Your activity is also paltry compared to mine. BOW BEFORE ME.

Also, this is ridiculous. With 12 to your 21 posts, I'm the second most active in this thread. Besides, high activity does not make you more valuable or a better player. This is an obvious logical fallacy. Scummy.

[Uite]

Way to not adress any points I made.

[Uite]

@chesskid3:

I don't care for your use of the number 16 in particular, but I do care for the way you're making stuff up as you go along that it indicated. It shows me that you're not interested in the truth of this game, which is definitely a scum trait.

p.s. what do you guys think of a mass claim?

Bad idea. It would just tell the scum who's who, and since we know there's a roleblocker, it will mean that the town PR's become ineffective. If it doesn't lead to the lynch of the RB, he will just kill the doctor and block the cop.

@Mod:

I will be V/LA Friday through Sunday.

[Uite]

scum has to claim too uite..
and can start from the most suspicious ppl

True, but catching scum in a massclaim this early is almost certainly not going to happen. Unless there are three cops or something. Massclaiming at this point is going to benefit scum vastly more than town, and suggesting it gains you a lot of scumpoints/

p.s. read the previous pie e7 game

I'm too tired to do that now. Maybe tomorrow, or after my V/LA.

unvote
vote let'smassclaim

Scumpoints for Shotty too.

Also this is what, your 3rd,4th post?

How does it matter how many posts he has at this point. He's not lurking or anything.

ITT: errybody gets suckered by charter, and nobody actually adresses Chesskid's points.

And which points would that be exactly? It's hard to separate out from the useless banter.

[Uite]

Chesskid, chill. I don't know how you got it into your head that charter is "SUPER AGGRESIVE TOWN," because really, he isn't agressive at all.

I'm not entirely sure how many votes he has at the moment, and even though lynching him is fine, I think it's too early to hammer.

[Uite]

Vote Count:

drmyshottyizsik (1)-2003041
Andrew (1)-uite
bv310 (1)- andrew94
Charter (1)-chesskid3

chesskid3 (3)-drmyshottyizsik, bv310, Charter

Bold indicates L-1

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Deadline is Nov. 23rd.

From what I can see, this votecount is still correct.

right, because he totally didn't make one post, sit back and come back with me at L-1. mmkay.

Uh what? How does "sitting back" make him "super aggressive," because I don't see it.

[Uite]

Andrew that rolefishing of yours is really geting out of hand. Massclaiming does nothing but paint huge targets on anyone who claims a PR. Yet that's exactly what you want to do. Can someone string this guy up?

[Uite]

have u read the previous E7 game?

Not yet. Why are you so hung up on this?

No offense, but that's literally the dumbest logic I've ever seen used in Mafia. Ever.

Also, I love the passive-aggressive threat. If you think I'm scum, then say so. Don't try throwing out vague threats thinking it'll turn me off of you. If I didn't think you were scum before, I sure as hell do now.

QFT. Cheskid is definitely my second suspect, behind Andrew.

Uite and Bv, whats your read on Shotty?

Null. He's pretty much lurking, but I'm not seeing anything overly scummy from him. My only other encounter with him was in Mini 1015. His behaviour here is definitely different, but not in such a way as to help with a read. It somehow seems more mature.

an inexperieced person

aka the number dude

This is such utter bullshit. It can't possibly be true, yet you advance it as a legitimate theory. Your lack of regard for the actuality of this game is troubling. This guy needs more votes.

[Uite]

But who exactly is he sheeping then? Give me a name.

[Uite]

/confirmification. And, HAY MALLOW!!!!!!!

vote: drmyshottyizsik

I can't wait long enough for him to be modkilled.

These are all the posts from "number dude." What exactly is he sheeping?

[Uite]

That's not what sheeping is. Sheeping is blindly following a player, without a reasoning. What you're thinking of is signalling. It doesn't necessarily point to 2003041 either. And how do you know scum like claiming PR in this game? Do you have inside information?

Please explain clearly why it is so important for me to read the previous game like I asked you. Which game is it exactly?

[Uite]

@Andrew:

All right, here's the hole in your theory: you think Shotty and 2003041 are the scumteam, and that Shotty told his partner to claim VT. You also want to massclaim, in the hope that scum will counterclaim. Now, since you've already noted that the scum are of the opinion they should claim VT, you still hope they won't? Claiming a PR as scum is stupid. It just means either an immediate lynch, or a lynch the next day if we mislynch the real PR. That's pretty risky, don't you agree? Here's what happens if the scum claim VT: there are two confirmed PR's; the Doc will surely die, while the Cop will be blocked. On the off chance that we get the Roleblocker today, the Cop has one shot to investigate someone, and will surely be killed the next night if we don't get the other scum.

[Uite]

@Charter:

Why the switch from Chevre to Shotty? If they're both scum, it doesn't matter who is lynched first, unless we can figure out which one the RB is, right?

Also, I disagree with your point A of why Andrew isn't scum. I've often seen scum go counter to their immediate interests in an effort to appear more town. Besides, the massclaim isn't the all-powerful weapon he makes it out to be, and surely he'd realise that as scum? It's an excellent way to manipulate us. Point B might have something to it, but it's conditional, as you noted. It also presumes that he would hammer on page 2 or 3, and I don't think that's very likely, even for him.

@Andrew:

Why didn't you change your vote until it was pointed out to you that you still had your RVS vote on? You obviously had strong scumreads, but you didn't actually act on them. How so?

[Uite]

Not really, but I don't know which is the RB, do you?

I don't, but that was kinda my point. I don't see a reason for switching unless you've figured out something like that. So why the switch?

[Uite]

Cause Shotty has more votes. The only reason I didn't vote him in the first place was I didn't know if he was at L-1 or not and I didn't want to hammer right then.

Fair enough, but really, it isn't that hard to keep track of the votecount.

If chesskid is town (which I think he is) then him not getting hammered when there was a perfect opportunity makes me think that either both scum were voting him, or one was and the other wasn't around to hammer. I don't think both scum were voting him, I think one was, and he wasn't hammered, so that's points against the MIA player, 200.

Do you really think a quickhammer that early is likely enough to factor in it's absence?

err uite, cos u guys never listened to me, i pointed out shooty + 2003 scum team ages ago, and your still going about something else

How is this relevant? You pointed that out based on very shoddy reasoning, and I still disagree. I could see Shotty as scum, but you are a lot scummier than either of them.

diaf

WTF does this mean?

[Uite]

I think it would have been a good move for scum and not so much for town. If I was scum but not with Chesskid and I wasn't voting him at that point, and he was at L-1, I'd have absolutely hammered him. Chance to hit a PR and there would be minimal flak to take the next day.

I initially disagreed with this, but after thinking it through, I see that you're right. Usually quickhammering that early means that the hammerer surely gets lynched the next day, because really, only scum would want to let the day end that quickly. But if scum quickhammered, depending on whether the Doc was succesful or not, tomorrow would be LyLo, which would mean that such arguments become less important than other scumtells. Though it's still not something town should do, which kind of lessens that reasoning.

I'm not exactly enamored by you saying that you's hammer on page 2 if you'd gotten the chance. Town has no benefits to ending the day that early, even if chesskid turns out to be scum. Especially that last sentence really reads like a scumslip. You want to lynch a PR? WTF?

[Uite]

Yeah, I was so struck by the obvious scumminess of that statement that I glossed over the "if I was scum" qualifier. My apologies.

[Uite]

This game is in need of some serious reviving. Therefore, questions for all!

@Andrew:

You're accusing Shotty of active lurking, but can you point me to your actual contributions?

@bv310:

You haven't really contributed much scumhunting of your own. Why are you so reluctant to share your thoughts?

@Charter:

In your iso #9 you say "Andrew and Chesskid. That's game." In #23 you say "I think that's a wrap. Shotty and Chevre." That's twice you've declared with certainty that you've found the scumteam, accusing four people in all. Both of these declaration were mostly based on the intereactions between the two players. So I'd like to ask you, how certain are you really about this, and do you have anything else to back it up? I'm dismissing your vote analysis here, because it's based almost entirely on assumptions.

@Chesskid:

Your last post was 37 hours ago. Why the change from your earlier spamming? I'm especially interested in why you're not clamouring for more activity like before.

@Chevre:

You said upfront that you're not good at opening posts, and you defend yourself with it when people call you on it. Why is it that you find opening posts hard?

@Shotty:

You're obviously letting this game get to you emotionally, and you haven't contributed anything at all so far. Why is this game so troublesome for you, and have you considered replacing out? Why/why not?

[Uite]

my contributions = suggesting mass claim, caught shottys flip flopping, voting shotty

How would you rate the usefulness of those contributions?

Eh, because absolutely nothing is happening. Shotty is scum and he's not even trying to defend himself, he just disappeared.

If nothing is happening, make something happen. It's not that hard. By the way, you didn't answer my second question.

Clearly I'm not 100% absolutely certain. At the time, if I had to put money down on two people, that's who it was. If I had to put money down now, I'd put more money down on Shotty and Chevre. I feel like I've already given quite a bit to back it up, I can't think of anything else right now.

I couldn't really find it. You've given several reasons, but they're all interaction related. Why do you put so much stock in that particular type of scumhunting?

please read my sig

Please answer my question.

Uite: I tend to find that I can't really analyze the game that has already happened. That's why I limit myself even further to joining games with less than 10 pages; if I tried to jump into something on more than early Day 2 or such, I'd be lost. I prefer to just jump into games from where I replaced.

Can you share your insights on everything that's happened since you joined in then?

[Uite]

I see you all want Shotty hammered, but I'm not going to do it. There are some lines of investigation I want to pursue first. Besides, Shotty is away, and I don't want anyone to hammer before he gets back.

@Andrew:

Why didn't you answer my question? Please do.

@Charter:

I'm not disputing that what you're doing can be useful, but your approach has already given us false results, since you dug up two different scumteams. Why are you sure that this time you're right?

@Chesskid:

I'd really like to know why you aren't asking for more activity like you were at the beginning of the game. You say you're waiting for the hammer, but what are you doing to make that a reality?

@Chevre:

Who do you think is scum, and why?

[Uite]

my contributions i rate is better than chesskid shotty chevre

I was going to call you out on active lurking, since really that's what you've been doing, especially with the massclaim business, but sadly what you're saying here definitely has truth to it.

[Uite]

I lied, I think Uite is his buddy. Couldn't prove it without him flipping scum though, but now I think Uite is more suspect than Chevre. The past few pages, you can tell Uite has been desperately trying to latch on to ANYTHING besides Shottyscum. Chevre is still scummy, but I can't shake my feeling that Uite is actually his buddy. Regardless, I'm pretty sure the four of us voting him are town, so yeah..

I knew there was something fishy about your Shotty/Chevre scumteam. I could see Shotty, but I really didn't get why you were suspicious of Chevre. And the last few pages I'd been trying to revive a dead game. How is that "desperately trying to latch on to ANYTHING besides Shottyscum"? Seriously. It's true that I haven't asked Shotty that many questions, but that's because he wasn't here, so how could I?

[Uite]

What about Andrew and/or Chesskid? They've been scummy too. Frankly, the way you insist on relationship tells to the exclusion of all other scumhunting without even having seen a flip worries me. It reeks of active lurking, and your logic is seriously lacking.

FoS: charter

[Uite]

Not much happening right now. Unfortunealtely I've been sick the pasdt few days, and I can't really think straight, so I'm not much help right now.

[Uite]

I'm thinking whether the Cop should claim or not depends on one thing: the investigation result. On a guilty: definitely claim, on anthing else: don't. Claiming means that the Cop will be neutralised next night, so if he doesn't claim, he gets another inestigation then.

@Charter:

Why are you FoS'ing Chevre for that, when it's essentially the same as what I said during twilight? Seriously, you've accused everyone alive but yourself, and with essentially the same deeply flawed reasoning.

[Uite]

What you're saying is more or less correct, but have you considered what would happen in case of a counterclaim? One of the two gets lynched, and it's either game over, or the other bites it at night. In case of a guilty, claiming isn't so bad, because then we get to nail at least one scum, but otherwise there's no solid information to go on.

[Uite]

What you're saying is basically correct in case there's no counterclaim, but if there is, nothing is confirmed at all, at least until the flip, and by then it could be too late.

Seriously, there's only one thing for scum to do in that situation, and that's fakeclaiming.

Why do you want a claim so badly anyway?

[Uite]

I'm not misrepping you at all. I get that if there's only one claim, it's legit. That's exactly why there won't be one claim, unless the scum is really stupid.

[Uite]

It's not me.

[Uite]

So, are we still playing?

[Uite]

Actually, no. I've been feeling sick again the past few days, so that caused low my level of contribution.

@charter:

To answer your question, I didn't really think too much about Shotty's scumclaim. It was nice to have lynched scum, but honestly I was more concerned with you calling me (and a lot of other people too) scum, and with very flimsy reasoning too, when I obviously wasn't.

Why did you choose bv310 to investigate?

[Uite]

Elaborate?

Of course, this is coming from my own perspective, but I was busy hunting scum, asking everyone questions, trying to help the town, yet he could only see me "desperately trying to latch on to ANYTHING besides Shottyscum." Since his scumhunting had already delivered demonstrably false results well before the end of the day, I was becoming suspicious of him. That is moot though, as of the claim.

[Uite]

Also, with the claim, I can narrow down the scum to two out of Andrew/Chess/Chevre. It's a shame about the investigation, or we might have been able to narrow it down further.

Out of those three, I think Andrew is most suspicious, with the whole massclaim affair and the fakeclaiming. If that isn't rolefishing, I don't know what is. His weak accusations towards me don't help his case either. I'm not sure about the second scum. It could be either Chess or Chevre. I know I wasn't really suspicious of Chevre before, but the lack of content is starting to become troubling. Chesskid's start left a bad taste, and though he has improved since then, I'm not sure if it can excuse his earlier behaviour.

I think for today, Andrew is our best bet though.

[Uite]

Interesting. How did you come to that conclusion?

[Uite]

How so, because I'm not seeing it.

[Uite]

@Chevre:

Yeah, you're right. I'm not confirmed to anyone except myself. Still, all of us have more information now than he does, and I stand by my statement.

@Charter:

I don't get how you see that as pro-town, since to me it looks like a prime example of rolefishing. Could you explain more?

[Uite]

I definitely disagree. Especially Day 1, I don't see town benefitting from a massclaim, while it helps the scum hugely. That makes it very scummy in my eyes.

[Uite]

Is this the only thing you see wrong with Andrew?

No, though the rolefishing is probably the worst thing in my eyes. Beyond that, I also don't like how he's been insinuating that I'm scum pretty much all game. His accusations of 2003041 weren't based on anything either. To me it looks like he is just accusing everyone in the hope that something sticks instead of actual scumhunting. I'd accuse him of active lurking too, but unfortunately he's not very special in that regard.

What's interesting at this point is that I seem to disagree with the majority of you. You apparently think Andrew is town and Chevre is scum, while she is probably my best town read out of the three suspects. We do all seem to agree about chesskid though.

@Everybody:

Can you explain your reads of Andrew and Chevre?

[Uite]

For one, I'm actually thinking about this.

[Uite]

I remember questioning him about that at the end of Day 1, but he never really gave a satisfying answer. I'll just pick up where I left off:

@Chesskid:

Why the change from your earlier spamming? I'm especially interested in why you're not clamouring for more activity like before.

[Uite]

Earlier, it was in part because lovely and charming people were finding everything I did scummy.
Now, it's because this game is basically over.

As to why my activity is lower, some games I enjoy, others I don't. Activity is low in ones I don't enjoy.

What do you mean? There's still scum to find. Surely you have reads? Or have you given up because you can't seem to get a mislynch today? Also, why don't you enjoy this game?

ok im gonna vote uite in 24 hours

Why? Not so long ago, you were all "alright, i think chess is scum. maybe with cheve as partner." Why the change? And if you want to vote for me, why announce it like that, instead of just doing it?

At this point, a Chesskid/Andrew scumteam seems very likely. I'd also like to ask why nobody answered my question about Andrew and Chevre.

[Uite]

Seriously, why? You haven't given any explanation about them so far. Please state your reasons clearly in your next post. If you don't that will confirm to me that you're scum, and I will vote for you. And while you're at it, you can respond to my other questions as well.

[Uite]

Chesskid, I see you posting elsewhere on the site, so you're apparently trying to lurk this through. Get in here and do what I asked of you.

[Uite]

Wrong answer. You're scum.

VOTE: chesskid3

[Uite]

I think you already know. I don't think a quickhammer is going to happen, unless you self-vote.

[Uite]

Go ahead Charter. I think it's pretty obvious at this point.

[Uite]

Yeah, I can get behind a Chevre lynch.

VOTE: Chevre

[Uite]

No

[Uite]

It's Chesskid I tell you. I was writing up an analysis of the votes, and it was leading me to the same conclusion. One in me/Chess, one in Andrew/Chevre. When I saw your vote, I thought I might just as well go ahead and hammer. Chesskid tomorrow, and we're golden.

[Uite]

I apologise for my behaviour in twilight, but I have it as a personal policy to not break character until the game officially wraps.

Some thoughts: I really was surprised that nobody counterclaimed Charter. As you can read in the QT, I already told Chesskid not to do it, but I was keeping the option open for myself. What made me decide not to do it was Charter's behaviour surrounding the claim. I actually bought Andrew's wifom based on a post much earlier in the Day, so I knew that he definitely got a result. He also said during twilight that he would investigate me, so I was very worried he had a guilty result on me. However, the way he hesitated told me that he didn't really have anything, so I decided to take the gamble. Turned out I was right, and 50/50 between four people is a lot more comfortable than 50/50 between two.

Then came the time to engineer a mislynch. I really wanted to push Andrew, because I do believe what I accused him of made him look that bad. I wasn't sure if I could convincingly switch to Chevre, so I settled on bussing my buddy. I was genuinely prepared to lynch him, and I think it would have made Day 3 very easy for me. Charter's vote was a stroke of luck, and of course I took advantage of it.

[Uite]

Looking back, the crumb in your second post is pretty blatant, but I'm not really seeing the other ones. Still, I'm not sure if I would have been lynched. You would need both Andrew and Chevre along for that, and I'm not sure which way Chevre would go.

I think what hurt you most was your insistence on relationship scumhunting. Seriously, I think you missed stuff you could have seen if you hadn't. The most obvious example was of course not investigating me like you promised. Stuff like that also makes you fairly easy to manipulate, so you really should be more broad in your scumhunting in my opinion.

[Uite]

Yeah, we complemented each other well during Day 2. I didn't quite get why you didn't vote for Chevre when you were last on though. You could easily have done so, and I wouldn't have had to rely on Charter's vote.

Interesting factoid: in the whole game, there has been only one player who never recieved a vote, namely me.

[Uite]

I must say that cases actually help town. Try and use them instead of just trolling at each other.

Seriously. If scum is genuinely asking you to provide any case at all, you know something is wrong.

[Uite]

Yeah, I won't be playing with him again. I know I've said it before, and I gave him a second chance in 265/266, but he's not getting another one from me.