Open 262-Hard Boiled!

[Shadow Dancer]

vote Screw (i.e. SchraubenSomenumber)

Because he is still alive in Newbie 1012.

[Shadow Dancer]

Some thoughts about the setup:

I must say I like this setup, may be pretty town favoured though, but I haven't done any math so far.

I asked the mod when Leto would have to decide about her/his (? - I don't know the flavour well) PR and he stated that it would be with fisrt night choice which means we can discuss the issue during D1.
Right now I am leaning towards chosing vig, because an extra kill/lynch every day is much stronger than a tracker. The drawback is that our cop roles are stalled a bit, but given that claiming Vig is a pretty suicidal act for scum I think it is worth it.

I also think it would be good to synchronize our two psychics, so we can know for sure if they could kill and if they have killed - giving us essentially two town cop roles.

The hider/hidertracker combination is alsmost like a cop mason, btw! If one of both dies there is still the other one (most likely the tracker) to give us the results. However, we can only find one scum this way, so the hider should try to hit a townie (and one that's unlikely to be killed) every night, so we can hopefully clear as many players as possible when claiming stage is reached.

Another good thing about assigning a psychic target beforehand is that the hider can chose a different target every night. With a bit of luck we can sweep lots of players before endgame.

[Shadow Dancer]

That's like saying:

Wow, Hop, trying to establish super hard that you are scumhunting - without any reason to.

Oh, wait, no, actually...
-->
It would not be the first time that scum tries to derail strategy debate that very moment some one/I brings it up. Keeping town dumb and uninformed is of course what scum wants. That you seem to have nothing to say about the matter itself does not help your case, either.

Unvote. Vote Hop

[Shadow Dancer]

:\ Forum bugs around for me today

[Shadow Dancer]

One of the main questions about whether to get a vig or a tracker is whether or not we're planning on leading the vig. If we did then we'd give scum additional power but if we didn't then we'd run the risk of one bad player ruining it for us and an increased odds of getting rid of our hider.

Everybody: Your thoughts on whether we should direct the vig or not (if we pick vig)

Tracker is quite a powerful role (though it doesn't have the game changing effects of vig) so I don't think we should be worried about wasting the vig/tracker if we move into that direction.

Yeah that is my only concern - that a bad vig fucks it up big time (I know what I am talking anbout O_o )
But on the other hand I don't like VI fear as reason for any decision - it gives power to the VIs, even if they aren't even there...
My best bet would be a general guideline for the vig when chosing targets along the lines of common scumreads > personal scumreads > neutral reads if no clear scumreads are available when it comes to target choice. Strictly guiding him might be a good choice when the situation calls for it (after some claims and stuff), but rathe not in general, since, as you said, it gives scum some power over the vig.

[Shadow Dancer]

I already feel more and more satisfied with my vote on hop. I see quite some scum mentality in some of his posts as well as some really forced and wrong arguments... I do not want to nit-pick it all apart, but even considering his problematic personality he is pretty scummy.

@SV: Wanna play the VI troll again? Mind to do us a favour and replace out?

A vig is free lynch every day, saying it is bad because it could fuck up the game is like saying we should go nolynch because we could mislynch.
I do not like the vig role much, at least in a mini game, since it has a tendency to make a game very short and potentially unfun, but objectively I consider it the better choice right now.
To make this clear: I do not want to impose a fixed strategy onto the town, I just think that duíscussing the pros and cons could be really beneficial and helpful to the player that has to make the choice during N1. Especially considering that a bad choice could screw us up, I do think that town/that player should make a decission as informed as possible.
And, by the way, the margin for mafia to bring up bad strategy propositions to mislead town is thin - it would almost certainly draw unneccesary attention towards them, so I would not worry about that.

[Shadow Dancer]

Cool, forum works for me again.

@mod: I revoke my V/LA PM since everything seems to work fine now.

@Hop: First of: Your premature claiming and your opne rolefishing are both really badly anti.town. I won't use that as scumtells against you, because I played with you before. But I told you in the other game I tell you here again: Learn when to just stfu. It is OK to have your own theories to work with, but before you blurt them out over every one (including scum) you better do something to verify or falsify them. No matter what allignment you are, your goal is always to outthink every one else. Blindly sharing all your thoghts with evetry one all over the place is the most effective way to counter that attempt if not for all townies then at least defoinitely for yourself!

As to the case against you: You are flooding this thread with stuff that mostly debunks itself. As long as you do not bring up anything significant and convincing I do neither see a reason to change my opinion that you are our best scum bet for today nor to adress your case in detail. Being flooded with more bloated WOTs is what this game in the current state needs as much as every one posting in pink.

One thing is right though: The Hop waggon grew suspiciously fast to L-1 and it is definitely not the time for a lynch, not even all players have contributed something so far.

The game just started, we got a lot of time to carefully watch oput for scum. Right now I do not see the need to put more pressure on Hop, he is delighting us with more then his fair share of posts at the moment, so I can just lean pack and watch what happens, no need to press him further into a corner right now. There are two other scum to catch, anyway.

[Shadow Dancer]

SD's post about the game play to start with seemed fishy but I wouldn't pin him as scum because of it. HOMJ challenging it has helped pull the game out of RVS and got conversations going. Neither of which is a lynchable offense as far as I'm concerned.

@screw:
So if "fishy" doe not mean scummy in your book - what does it mean?
If this is not just blatant buddying, what would you call it?

[Shadow Dancer]

I just realize I was wrong about the psychic stuff. There's only one of the two roles in game (thanks to implosion for pointing that out).

@mod:Could you please add an overview apout the setup in the first post? I mean one like in the queue.

@mod: One more technical question: Would the hidertracker always be tracked as targeting the hider?

[Shadow Dancer]

@ SD I was L-1 so not premature claiming

also not role fishing, not sure where you even get that. I HONESTLY thought you were claiming a role, that's not fishing, that's fail reading comprehension

You were in no danger of being lynched, no one wanted to hammer you, and having no PR to claim would mean you should me more than happy for scum quicklynching you.

Even if you think you have a PR read on some one

DO NOT BLURT IT OUT TO EVERY ONE, DAMN IT, ISN'T THAT OBVIOUS?!

Learn the basics - not the wiki but just some minimal common sense. Please.

[Shadow Dancer]

Hmm I guess the answer is obvious: Tracker/Vig will provide a result that fits the role that he/she actually chose...

@Mod: However - that brings me to another question - what is the night action resolve order? Will kills come before or after psychic investigation?

Overall activity so far leaves much to desire

I think I'll try and do some math concerning the Vig/Tracker issue before I render my final verdict...

[Shadow Dancer]

[...]I think this HOMJ wagon is kind of annoying and distracting[...]

Could you elaborate that a bit more?
It does not adress the issue of your vote.

[...]and someone who hates everyone might well be given to organized crime.

Totally arbitrary reason. Don't you think RVS is over?

[Shadow Dancer]

unvote vote sapo

If that is your reaction to simple questions you deserve to have some more serious pressure being tested on you...

[Shadow Dancer]

@SV: Wanna play the VI troll again? Mind to do us a favour and replace out?

Oh. Look who they let into games these days.

Sure, if it'll make you all better.

@Mod: Please replace me.

Weird...

[Shadow Dancer]

Look at the positive side of it: Replacements mean you have two independent reads on the same slot.

[Shadow Dancer]

I'm just not here to play your little "X is scumhunting because X isn't scumhunting game". You're rarely ever accurate.

The - what?! - game?!
Please explain - to me unknowing outsider - what you are accusing Emp of.

[Shadow Dancer]

unvote vote sapo

If that is your reaction to simple questions you deserve to have some more serious pressure being tested on you...

I asked what you meant by this. I'd like an answer.

Instead of just answering it you show a massive reaction of avoidance - going as far as placing a vote on a waggon that you seemed rather opposed to before.
That makes me believe you feel caught in something.

[Shadow Dancer]

@JS: Now your sentence at least makes sense.
Does not mean it is right.
Why do you think that the theory that some one who avoids scumhunting (in some way or another) is more likely scum doe not hold ground?

[Shadow Dancer]

I voted SV to be silly, because thus far I think this HOMJ wagon is kind of annoying and distracting.

=/= "I WOULD HATE TO LYNCH HOP." I think his playstyle's anti-town because he casts out accusations that are extremely ridiculous. What I am opposed to is pages and pages of clutter that keep us from focusing on any other players. He could very well be vitown, but if voting for Hop helps us move on with things better, I'm all for it. And honestly, I haven't seen enough from anyone else to have a feeling one way or another.

If you have any other concrete reasons to suspect me, I'm all ears.

Now we are talking.
Now answer me these two questions:
- Why did you not give me this answer when I asked the first time?
- Why did you consider it the right time to jump on the hop waggon?

[Shadow Dancer]

-Cuz I'm busy and cranky and I'm having female troubles? Mainly because I didn't think my vote for SV warranted much of a discussion.

I was adressing your

hop

vote.

Because, as I said, I've been busy, and I'm not exactly IN LOVE with lynching hop today. Also, looking back at the way the first wagon formed, he seems like a very convenient lynchpin that perhaps some opportunistic scum jumped upon. In light of this,

UNVOTE: Hop

Who is talking about lynching hop right now?
You basically say that you think hop is town (lynchpin must be townie) and still voted for him?

-Why is hops no longer scummy to you? Or, to ask another way, why do you think it would be a better idea to put pressure on others when you've seen that hops basically doesn't react in any way that's useful?

There are many aspects to this
- first of I never said I do not find him scummy any more, I said would look out for other possible scum.
- I playerd my last game with hop and know that he has a really problematic personality and an quite anti town playstyle. So much of the things he did are more a personality or playstyle issue as far as I can tell right now.
- I already said that I do not want to pressure hop further right now, because it would only result in more WOTs and post spam which would not be helpful at all at this stage of the game.
- The fact that he was waggoned very quickly to L-1 is ... odd. I am not sure what to think of it right now. But I'll definitely look at it when I have better reads on more players.

[Shadow Dancer]

Since "urgh" seems not to be a scumread - what are your scumreads so far? All your reads are either neutral, meta-ish ("urgh") or town.
I am not asking for whom you'd lynch but who you think is - even if only slightliest - scummier than the other players?

[Shadow Dancer]

@screw: There is a certain etiquette for this kind of situataion and blatantly breaking it is generally considered a strong scum tell - for good reasons.
Some one is waggoned to L-1, then some one announces he would hammer - meaning the waggon will really result in a lynch - and demands a roleclaim, then comes the roleclaim.
However, when it happened even waggoning him to L-1 was not really a brilliant thing to do.
Now we have an uneccesary roleclaim - we cannot trust it, but scum can (if hop is really town). All hop has done is increase mafia's information advantage.

And again: Always posting everything you think is a bad idea. Many of the things are not helpful at all or worse - only helpful for scum.

[Shadow Dancer]

[...] Have you played at least a couple games with Empking before? [...]

No, that's why I asked you in ther first place about what you meant with you comment about Emp's play.
I think you should explain it - to me unknowing first-time-with-Emp-player.

[Shadow Dancer]

Hmmm... Forum seems to run stable for me now... Yeeehaaa!

Hop is trying to be helpful - and ends up just terrible...
Sapo... i contributing nozhing at all...
Shotty is flaming.
SP is just plain right.
DJ is... whatever the fuck he is doing... Guess if you feel the need to answer hop there's hardly a way around sarcasm...
JS hasn't come up wioth an answer yet.
Emp is doing weird things to hop...
Every one else is...
Where the fuck is every one else?
Might be a good time to call out lurkers...
I'll think about it...

[Shadow Dancer]

?!?!??!!!?????????!!
._.
o_o
O_O
@_@
*_*

OK, some one write me a PM when hop has returned to planet earth so I can stop banging my head against my desk plate...

I think Hop is now the lynch of the day, I see nothing that could convince me otherwise, but maybe we can look out for ecentual scum partners before we drop the hammer...
I'll hammer, and claim's already done, but since there's "more than enought time" to DL and quite some people are still really low on post count/contribution I would like every one to post someting like a final opinion on D1.

I'll do mine when I have some more time at hand, likely tomorrow.

@Hop: Congratulations, you (and all your coming player IDs) just made it straight onto my modding blacklist.
*Wait, Shadow, you haven't modded any games, how can I be on your blacklist?!
- YOU GENIUS MADE IT ON THE LIST EVEN BEFORE THAT GODDAMN LIST EVEN EXISTED DAMN IT!!!

[Shadow Dancer]

...Which means we've got a tracker...

[Shadow Dancer]

shotty

Every time a waggon occurs I see shotty hijacking some one elses logic and hop on... To put it mildly - I detest that play style

JS:

On the other hand JS left me behind a bit perplexed in deed...
@JS:
1. You did not like the hop waggon - well and good - why couldn't you wait to hammer then?
2. After your last comment on Emp really want you to elaborate in depth why you hate Emp so much and what you think of his playstyle in this game...

Which brings me straight to my next problem case.

Emp:

There's this guy, is the seemingly most experienced player in this game, has an award for best town perfoemance... and nothing better to do than bullying some fucking narcistic jerk?
Seriously, he is an enigma for me.

I think that's enough to start the day for now.

[Shadow Dancer]

EBWODP:

shotty:

Every time a waggon occurs I see shotty hijacking some one elses logic and hop on... To put it mildly - I detest that play style

JS:

On the other hand JS left me behind a bit perplexed in deed...
@JS:
1. You did not like the hop waggon - well and good - why couldn't you wait to hammer then?
2. After your last comment on Emp I really want you to elaborate in depth why you hate Emp so much and what you think of his playstyle in this game...

Which brings me straight to my next problem case.

Emp:

There's this guy, is the seemingly most experienced player in this game, has an award for best town performance... and nothing better to do than bullying some fucking narcistic jerk?
Seriously, he is an enigma for me.

I think that's enough to start the day for now.

[Shadow Dancer]

More opportunism from shotty...

[Shadow Dancer]

Why would anybody pick vig and then not use it?
If one doesn't wanna take the risk one picks tracker.

[Shadow Dancer]

!!
Day so young and already a claim? This game's weird...
Little time... I'll try and post more tomorrow
Just one question: Why did you chose JS as night target?

[Shadow Dancer]

Rolefishing = trying to find out some ones role - I never did that, but this is an open setup, so we already which roles there are.
All I pointed out was the trivially obvious fact that we have a tracker and not a vig. Not for any particular reason - it's a useful information, but every one had figured that out themselves, I am sure.

The more importunate question now is obviously: What does it hurt? - Acoording to SB obviously a lot, though he entirely fails to elaborate on that opinion.
However, Scott's latest post is such a grave case of self-disassembly that I don't even want to further comment on it...

What bothers me is not so much that Scott pointed out my "rolefishing" - what really bothers me is that that's all he's done so far.
Scott's been lying low for most of D1 already.

vote Scott

What kind of convulsive tunneling is that, Scot?

[Shadow Dancer]

It's funny how Shotty's shotties hit his own toes every single time...

Anyway, I've thought about it and decided that Scott definitely isn't the lynch of the day.

unvote. vote Shotty

I've done some meta reading (thanks to Shotty's unequaled ... "brief" ... posting style that's quickly done ) and so far his behaviour in this game looks more like his scum meta to me.

[Shadow Dancer]

As far as I can tell by now Shotty tends to do more than waggon hopping in at least some of his town games...

[Shadow Dancer]

Also

major FoS Screw

He hasn't provided any D2 posts so far and D1 he did everything to lie low, playing some newb card, avoiding any stances, withholding his vote aside from his RV that he immediately withdrew when the first Hop waggon reached a critical mass...
His most concern seems to have been not to catch any one's attention or disgrace.

[Shadow Dancer]

Any way SD personaly I hate when people vote due to "meta"

your vote was a pathetic excuse to OMGUS me

+3 more scum points

To let you know, I mostly meta people with VI tendencies. Anhd you turned out to be one of those who willingly built a VI meta for themselves. The purpose of such tactics is obvious.

[Shadow Dancer]

Firstly I consider Shotty the most scummy player right now (but Screw is very close).
Secondly I assume that the playstyle Shotty is showing in this game makes it more likely he is scum.
I am far from convinced, but right now I consider Shotty my best bet to be scum.

[Shadow Dancer]

Cop-out?
OK that's really role-fishing... Only that there's no cop. Or maybe I do not understand what you mean...
And: NO! Where did I ever say it was a policy lynch?
Where did I even say it was a lynch?
So far it is only a vote - and for some one I consider scummy.

[Shadow Dancer]

In deed it sounds scummy!
Not that you unvote -
but your reason to unvote is

you cannot remember why you voted for Emp?

I get a growing impression that you do not pay attention to this game.

FoS SP

[Shadow Dancer]

@sapo: If some one builds a VI-meta for himself than normally to conceal his scum play with it.
And Shotty does not always play as VI, at least not as the kind of VI that he's showing us here.

How could I miss CA missing :\

[Shadow Dancer]

Yep... Stagnation. I hope we get some replacements soon :/

@mod: You did not state it esplicitely, but I guess CA will be replaced, too(?)

[Shadow Dancer]

Emp is confirmed town.
And you haven't even read this thread.
I like the idea of a pressure waggon on you.

Since nothing else important seems to be happening at the monent:

unvote.

vote SP.

FoS Shotty[/b]

[Shadow Dancer]

Then explain to me why...

1. ... you did not know he was confirmed town before I told you (or still try to frame him as scum if you actually knew).

2. ... you needed so long until you unvoted him.

2. ... you did not know your original reason for voting Emp any more when you unvoted.

[Shadow Dancer]

EBWOPDP: second 2. is 3. of course

[Shadow Dancer]

I doubt scum would fake claim hider. The real hider could safely counterclaim.
Also the Hidertracker could CC, though he might wait another day.
I consider it reasonable to assume that if scum would fake claim a role to force a CC it would be hidertracker.
Unless either Screw or CA is the hider there is no CC.
With no CC I take Emp (and JS) as confirmed.

[Shadow Dancer]

CounterClaim

[Shadow Dancer]

Even worse: Our policy lynch has pretty much been Hop. I don't think we can afford another one.

[Shadow Dancer]

@JS: Your case on CA?

[Shadow Dancer]

Hmmm... If we lynch CA we won't need a replacement...

I am tired of this stagnation. And since I basically know jack shit...

unvote. vote CA

Who said "*bumb*" was acceptable, btw? It was just another typical shotty post.

L-2 I think.[/b]

[Shadow Dancer]

You are confirmed town, so why should I mistrust your motives? You seem to have pretty strong motives and most likely very good reasons to keep them hidden.
Besides that I feel kinda stuck in this game... And with two people missing and no replacemant in sight... Only bad thing is that CA cannot roleclaim... But we aren't that far.

[Shadow Dancer]

I just thought you had a case and I had missed it.
And again: I cannot see scum Emp fakeclaiming hider and even less I can see him not being counterclaimed, especially considering there are two roles in this game that could CC.

[Shadow Dancer]

So we have reached the join-the-biggest-waggon-stage?
I guess lynching me has at least some effect then, it's really a dead point right now.
However, I thinki I was right about Screw being suspect - Admiral is scum. That's no scum hunting, that's finding a totally artificial explantion to join the leading town waggon.

Why is SP your second suspect, BTW?

[Shadow Dancer]

OK, let's say - I'll wait for 48h (time interval where every one is expected to check at leat once) and if we still aheve status quo I'll end this drama single-handedly.

[Shadow Dancer]

Am I really on just 2 votes? Then LOL about Emp's votepost...

[Shadow Dancer]

What about a CA replacement? We could really need it!

[Shadow Dancer]

Hmmm... If we lynch CA we won't need a replacement...

What about a CA replacement? We could really need it!

Well you've changed your tune haven't you.

The difference is just if we lynch him

with

or

without

a claim and

with

might be better.

vote Coug

[Shadow Dancer]

Am I really on just 2 votes? Then LOL about Emp's votepost...

Got you totally freaked out though, didn't it.

Maybe I should begin to actually care about the votes on me... But anyway they seem to have disappeared.

[Shadow Dancer]

My vote wasn't new, either. Just wanted to confirm it after player change.

I guess your last votecount was a bit sloppy. It's 10 / 6 to lynch, CA/Coug was at 5, so L-1, all the time.

[Shadow Dancer]

FoD DJ

I'll hammer ASAP.

Nothing more to say really.

Sapo, Shotty, DJ, any counter claims you wanna make first?

[Shadow Dancer]

So far so predictable... Emp would not hide behind JS another time.

No reason to wait any longer.

vote DJ

hammered

[Shadow Dancer]

you missed your own DL by almost 3h, gandalf

OK... Tracker dad = worst possible case
Admiral - cleared if no CC
Sapo - Heavy framing/bussing as scum gambit in case of a powerrole claim? Possible, but still rather very risky. I'd rather guess he's town.
Shotty - Still... Shotty... But the way DJ used him as kind of an all-purpose target D2 makes me rather think he's town.
Snake - Rather town read on D1 - but also clearly buddying up to me - D2 keeps voting cleared town... Rather dumb then neccesarily scummy... But his recurring thick-wittedness irritates me.
One question, Snake: Would you call yourself a newb?

[Shadow Dancer]

I am totes not scum, guys. [...]

??

[Shadow Dancer]

First thing Snake did D1 was dimissing giving his opinion who is scum.
From his very first post on he unequivocally refused to join the Hop-waggon - as if he knew Hop was town.
His buddying up to me in that regard (in the same post) was well noted.
I did not neccesarily consider any of thet scummy bacch then.
But now - what else has Snake done? Lurked, little participated, missed important developements in this game (such as hider claim), actively playing the newb card (finally found that post).
So on the one side there's the newb, who refuses to give his opinions for the most part and who does not even really follow the thread, on the other hand there's this seemingly "deep inisight" in Hop's case on D1 and his hard-boiled staying away from that waggon.
Snake joined both scum waggons of course, but in both cases only after a lynch seemed inevitable.
The whole picture just does not fit.

I am pretty sure that neither Sapo nor Shotty are scum at the moment. Admiral isn't, of course. That leaves only Snake, anyway.

So..

vote Snake

@SP: Anything you've got to say?

@Shotty: Why is Sapo scum?

@Sapo & Admiral: Why am I scum in your opinion?

[Shadow Dancer]

Did Sapo "pull" the CA lynch "out of his hat"? Where was that?

[Shadow Dancer]

Interesting point about Shotty. I thought just the other way around:
Shotty's waggon was quite big and popular when the day started out, saying he never was in real danger is definitely wrong.
And calling it a policy lynch obviously would have given DJ the possibility to say the next day: "What are you complaining, I said it was just policy."
If Shotty was scum I think he'd much rather called him scum and tried to earn the town credits for a scum lynch when it really came to it.

About SP: Definitely suspicious.

About me: Look at it this way: It's not really about me, DJ just thought:
"Oh, there's a bullshit waggon on [insert any name here], I can earn town credits for questioning it - and if some one really comes up with something solid I've got a nice town target to mislynch."

@Shotty: You promissed a case against Sapo today - where is it?

[Shadow Dancer]

That relation must have been pretty one-sided. You know, one-sided buddying up tells you very little about the buudied-up-to side.

But to speculate a bit - let's assume Sapo is scum and had the right idea about SB being the hider - suddenly it makes sense to frame his partner that hard, leaving behind one scum with heavy town credits and no town PRs left.
For a moment I even thought Sapo might be the tracker. He seemed just too sure for a mere VT.
And that neither Admiral nor Sapo was NKed strikes me as odd now, it definitely indicates that scum had a very precise idea that SB was the hider.

So, Sapo is number 2 on my scum list, much more likely than Shotty (as much as I would hate to lose against Shotty, I have to look beyond that).

@Shotty: You did not keep your promise, you did not post your Sapo case. Not a surprise, but still a letdown. Don't you dare to come with anything remotely "as you said" kind of stuff now! You've done that enough in this game.

drmyshottyizsik[0]
Shadow Dancer[0]
saporovirus[0]
ThAdmiral[0]
SnakePlissken[1]Shadow Dancer,
No Lynch[0]
NotVoting:drmyshottyizsik,saporovirus,SnakePlissken,ThAdmiral
With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

[Shadow Dancer]

I think I laid down my recent thoughts quite detailed. So generic prod dodge post, Shadow version, for now.
Hope there will have been a bit more activity when I look tomorrow...

[Shadow Dancer]

Day 1: Shadow Dancer kind of seemed to want a vig instead of a tracker.
#305 SD's first post: we've got a tracker
#314 SB wonders why SD is so interested in the role because he wanted to discuss it a lot yesterday and now he wants to lampshade that someone chose vig instead of tracker.
#315 SD says naw, vig would definitely shoot someone on d1 because if they weren't risk-taker's they'd choose tracker. Doesn't address why he's so curious about that role.
#317 Scott Bro is like "MAN YOU DIDN'T ANSWER THE Q I THINK YOU ARE SCUMZ."
#340 SD: Hark, a claim when the sun has scarce arisen o'er the horizon! Alas, why didst thou choose to hide with this mere twit of a JesseSheffield, young Empking?
#345 Scott Bro explodes rage at SD's "fishing" for info and wants to kill him.
#352 SD points out that Scott Bro's reactions are kind of silly (Ah, thou'st but a convulsively tunneling knave) and votes him.
#354 Scott Bro: idk man, trying to figure out the setup and asking ppl why they do stuff seems kinda scummy to me man. THESE ARE MY TELLS. I AM A FREE SPIRIT ON THE WIND.
#361 Shadow: OK whatevs I'm a talka bout shotty now

So the weird thing in this is-

I would peg scott bro as the scummier one in this exchange, because he appears to be labelling things as "rolefishing" that aren't. However we later discover that he is a power role, and other than this one exchange, he's been lying low and more or less reasonable. So...idk.

Very simple explanation: When Scott overreacted on my harmless opening remark on D2 was the point in time when I figured out that Scott was likely tracker himself.
Of course I could not claim that openly, resulting in my first throwing some dirt his way and then backing off his waggon, my exact words were "he's not the lynch of the day", which pretty much would have meant "I won't lynch Scott today under any circumstances" if any one had insisted on it.

And my theory that Sapo might be scum is partly based on these circumstances - if I could figure out SB was the hider, any one else with open eyes could, too - which pretty much even favours Sapo scum over Snake scum in this regard.

[Shadow Dancer]

EBWOP: not hider, obviously, but tracker...

[Shadow Dancer]

IDK where this "sapo's too sure" bs is coming from. Day 1 I was like WTF IS GOING ON, day 2 I was like MAN THESE PEOPLE ARE SCUMMY OBLIVIOUS TO SOFTCLAIM O NVM NOW I SEE SOFTCLAIM. Day 3 is the only day I expressed certainty that DJ was scum and that was because I was excited to have discovered his scummy behaviors. Kind of interesting that I have quickly turned from town in SD's eyes to his 2nd scum pick. TAIM TO READ MOAR.

Thanks for taking it out of context.
My remark was solely about your D3 behaviour and how it came out of nothing, before that you only mentioned DJ only exactly once and that was when you expressed your general suspicion against people on the CA waggon.

[Shadow Dancer]

@Shotty: BTW, you sa Sapo is scum, promise a case then don't post it. Now you say Snake is scum, promise a case (tomorrow) and [...]?!?!
Make a point, man, it's high time you deliver something useful.

[Shadow Dancer]

Where am I panicking?
And where am I flailing?

[Shadow Dancer]

It makes sense to distance to a town PR as townie for the same reason you distance to your scum partners as scum.
Also I needed a day or two to figure it out which pretty much meant I already had expressed suspicions against SB and just entirely backing off it seemed too obvious at the time since other players had also expressed their concern about that little confrontation between Scott and me.

My case was that if scum knew that SB was the tracker (enabling scum to eliminate the risk of raising the tracker's suspicion by havng the tracker nightkilled) keeping D3 short to avoid a tracker claim and heavy bussing to give the surviving scum some town credits would actually make sense.

And what PR would that totally be? And why don't you want to make a big deal out of it?

[Shadow Dancer]

OK, forget that last question...

[Shadow Dancer]

@Mod: Would you please prod SP? He hasn't posted since four (?) days.

[Shadow Dancer]

Wow. Geniuses in action... Now we get the fantastic endgame of Snake"IDoNotFollowThisGame"Plissken, "SeeHowUselessIAm"Shotty and Sapo who to make matters worse might be scum.
However, SP's hammer was more than scummy on itself... So maybe you wanna lynch him anyway...

Nothing left to say
You really let me down

[Shadow Dancer]

Damn that didn't work out...
Anyway, I still think (and hope) it is Snake.

But as last words: My Sapo-scum-theory in detail, again.

What scum knew (or could have easily guessed) after D2:
- Emp is hider (no doubt about that), but cannot eliminated actively and no idea who hidertracker is
- JS is psych (alomost certain)
- SB is tracker (very likely)

SB is mostly after townies (as me), so it's obvious to kill JS.

One scum has to do the kill

Considering possible nightactions:
I.) killer-scum tracked, non-killer scum hid behind -> scum screwed, so not worth further considering
II.) killer-scum tracked and hid behind -> one scum screwed.
III.) non-killer-scum hid behind (and possibly tracked), no action on killer-scum -> non-killer scum screwed, but less likely than case II.)
IV.) Both hider and tracker target town -> a ton of information for town.

Conclusion -> Frame killer scum for purpose of distancing, possibly town credits and to take the day short and avoid further claims if possible.

Obviously killer-scum = DJ and non-killer-scum = Sapo in this scenario.

Good luck.

[Shadow Dancer]

All of that with an almost guaranteed tracker kill in night 3 in mind, of course, leaving town with just a confirmable townie (hider tracker).

[Shadow Dancer]

3 alive, 5 to lynch? *lol*

[Shadow Dancer]

Hey you lazy arses, hurry up, we stomped Fates mafia in the meantime and you did not even produce one post. I am really upset with you.

[Shadow Dancer]

Almost perfect night actions - for both sides... So sad.