Open 252 -- Whoniverse Jungle Republic Game Over!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Vote: JesseSheffield

Djelibeybi, are you a werewolf or a mafioso?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

No, but I am implying that we policy lynch anyone who claims anything, ever.

I claim that fezzes are cool.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Anyway, I'm bored now.

CommieX, what were Marx' last words?

Djelibeybi, please identify the scum. You may use that I am town.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I don't think a test of the lynching procedure is necessary here. The rules are very clear: we can prove that statement.

Anyway, are you voting for me because you didn't think it was a very good joke or do you have a sillier reason?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Yes: why are you not voting for the person I'm voting for?

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Let's get a JesseSheffieldwagon going.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I'm noting that none of these posts contain votes.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Then vote for him.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Fine.

*hops*

Unvote, vote: dry-fit

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Is dry-fit your scum buddy, Djelibeybi?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Why are you unvoting and not revoting? Get on the dryfitwagon.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I'll vote for Jesse day 2 if you help me lynch Dry-fit today, CommieX.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Well, what are you looking for? My day 3 vote is still on the market.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Cogito Ergo Sum reminds me a lot of zwets, (for the record, are you the same person? wouldn't know, haven't been on the site for a while if using an alt)

There's no need to be abusive. Hint: alts are rarely 5 years old.

meaning he seems like he's not going to be of any help, has rigid methods of doing things (no matter how inane and pointless they are), and plays with a strategy that is anti-town.

Holy unjustified generalizations based on early game play, Batman!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Unvote, vote: Furcolow

Jesse, why are you not voting?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I believe Cogito Ergo Scum, Nightson, and PetroleumJelly are mafia.

Man, that would be ridiculously awesome.

Oh that is funny.

I would love to hear what it is that makes me a werewolf.

You're not cool enough for our little mafia group, obviously.

CES, why are you voting for Furc?

I am bandwagonning.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Looks like we caught ourselves a werewolf. Sweet.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

...or a mafiate... what makes you think he's a werewolf?

Because outing the seer helps the werewolves, duh. Why would mafia help the werewolves?

@CES: It actually is a somewhat valid strategy in this setup for mafiate to pose as seer. Outing the seer early leads to a scum-dominant game provided that the rest of the team keeps invisible.

Explain.

Hammer the fool, Jesse.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

You seem to have missed the part where the werewolves don't get a nightkill. And your entire analysis kinda falls apart because of it - outing the seer is a bad play for the mafia.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

EBWOP: You seem to have missed the part where the mafia don't get a nightkill. And your entire analysis kinda falls apart because of it - outing the seer is a bad play for the mafia.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

The counterclaimer is telling the truth 98% of the time in this type of set-up. There really is zero motivation for scum to counterclaim there. (If there were 2 clear suspects, then I suppose the second suspect could reasonably be scum and counterclaim.)

Anyway, playing a Whoniverse game is a lot less fun once the Doctor dies.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

A fake counterclaim by dry-fit in that situation really would've been a completely unnecessary suicidal play.

Re 2 factions:
If you're a werewolf in that situation and the claimant is mafia, then you wait for the real counterclaim as that results in the mafia getting lynched and seer getting nk'ed.
If you're a werewolf in that situation and the claimant is town, then counterclaiming means the seer is lynched, a random person (not you though) is nk'ed and you get lynched the next day, which helps the mafia a whole lot and doesn't help the werewolves in any way since the claimed seer was going to die anyway.
If you're a mafioso in that situation and the claimant is a werewolf, then you wait for the real counterclaim as that results in the werewolf getting lynched and seer getting nk'ed.
If you're a mafioso in that situation and the claimant is town, then you counterclaiming is just a waste of your life. A mafia counterclaiming is probably the most reasonable scenario out of all of these, but that doesn't depend on there being 2 factions, so this is just the familiar scenario and we all know that this is the wrong move.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Oh snap. In post #184 (my last post) I mixed up the mafia and the werewolves. Sevei, it really was a slamdunk. The quickness of the lynch was not detrimental to the town.

Anyway, post 145 seems genuine enough for me to tentatively declare Katsuki not-mafia.

Also,

Vote: Djelibeybi

.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

This attack on Sevei is silly. Zipper and Jesse are not on the same scum team though. Djelibeybi, which of the two is your scum partner?

We COULD have had this discussion BEFORE the hammer, you know.

We could have, yes, but it would've been pretty much the same discussion.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Don't ignore me, Djelibeybi.

Anyway, scum groups are:
Jesse & FiliusNocte
Djelibeybi & zipperflesh

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

CES is voting via a nickname of a player I haven't learned

Petroleumjelly -> Jelly baby -> Djelibeybi

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Firstly, my gut (which is as infallible as the pope) tells me so.

Secondly, your switch to Sevei strikes me as fairly opportunistic (I certainly don't see anything incriminating in Sevei's posts that occur between your vote for me and your vote for Sevei.)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I didn't miss it, but you never really tried to get a wagon on me going - if we disregard CommieX's V/LA notice, only Jesse, Sevei and I posted between those two posts of yours.

So how does my actions toward Furcolow factor into you thinking I'm scum? Do you think I was busing him from the start?

I doubt it was bussing, but distancing which accidentally helped lead to his lynch is very much possible. There certainly was no reason to suppose that he would end up getting lynched at the time of your vote.

There has to be something to back up your gut, otherwise you're guilty of the same thing Sevei is and deserved to be lynched.

My gut is quite reliable, thank you very much and Sevei doesn't deserve to be lynched, but, as it happens, my second point does back up my gut.

please connect the dots on how I'm partners with Jelly.

That's just me having some fun. I have no intention of looking for pairings at this point in time.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Well, I certainly didn't push it because all I've got is a vague gut suspicion.

Nice little jab here.

I hardly call outright attacking him "distancing." I had plenty of time to unvote before he even became close to being lynched. Furcolow was making baseless attacks against people, much in the same way you and Sevei are doing, and I attacked him for it.

If it was "outright attacking", then you certainly couldn't have unvoted without it drawing a lot of attention. Anyway, I do not think your actions are inconsistent with the possibility that you're mafia in any meaningful way.

You still haven't proven how I'm mafia. All you've done is provide a hypothesis where I was scum distancing himself from his scum buddy.

Proof does not come into it. And I certainly don't consider the Furcolow-vote to be relevant to my argument, which I made in #223. Your subsequent attempts to undermine me serve as further evidence.

You think baseless accusations are fun?

They certainly can be, but I was merely referring to the method of presentation of my accusations here (i.e. in the form of pairings.)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Those actions? No, not at all. You're the one who brought up your Furcolow-vote. I don't consider it to be significant.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Try reading my posts.

Firstly, my gut (which is as infallible as the pope) tells me so.

Secondly, your switch to Sevei strikes me as fairly opportunistic (I certainly don't see anything incriminating in Sevei's posts that occur between your vote for me and your vote for Sevei.)

Your subsequent attempts to undermine me serve as further evidence.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Point #1 - Gut
Rebuttal - Gut means nothing, prove it or quit mudslinging

Gut is awesome and is a completely valid method scumhunting if a not particularly convincing one. You keep asking me why I think you're scum. The notion that me answering truthfully could in any way constitute mudslinging is laughable.

Point #2 - Voting Sevei
Rebuttal - Since you're both guilty of baseless attacks, I could care less which one of you is lynched first. If it were possible to lynch you both today, then I'd be all for it.

I probably wouldn't have batted an eye if you had started the day voting Sevei, but the timing of the switch seemed highly opportunistic to me. I get the feeling that you switched to Sevei because Jesse was already pushing the Seveiwagon for you. I'm also not entirely clear how I'm supposed to be "guilty of baseless attacks" when I'm fairly sure all I did was fun bandwagonning (the advantages of which are aptly demonstrated by Furcolow's breakdown).

Point #3 - Undermining CES
Rebuttal - You have to have a valid case before I can undermine it. As of right you've got nothing on me except null tells and gut. If you really think I'm scum quit toying around and prove it. Otherwise you're just slandering.

Then what is the "vague gut suspicion comment" about? What purpose does it serve? I do have more on you, but you're obviously not going to agree with me.

If you really think I'm scum quit toying around and prove it. Otherwise you're just slandering.

You'd have to be a fairly crappy player for me to be able to "prove" that you're scum by page with any regularity. That's not how mafia works. Also, calling people scum in a game of mafia is just part of game and not slander.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

What I have a problem is you attacking me without reasoning and blaming it on gut.

I put you on my scum list. That might technically constitute an attack, but only barely.

Chances are if you truly have a gut feeling that I'm scum then I've done something to provoke that response. If not then you are lying scum.

I form my gut reads through reading ISOs (I ISOed each player at the start of the day.) and they tend to be based on the totality of a person's posting. I wouldn't be surprised if there were specific elements that triggered, but in that case I didn't manage to isolate them.

I came back later once the Jesse/Sevei discussion was underway and voted Sevei based on his response to Jesse, in fact I was the first to vote him.

Good thing you pointed that out, because this is what you said earlier:

...for some reason (perhaps you are scum?) I can't get a wagon started on you, so when the Sevei wagon started I hopped over since I was just as suspicous of him.

You've just given two contradictory explanations of the same event.

Unvote, vote: zipperflesh

I was going to respond to the rest of your post, but screw it. Die, scum, die.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I think you missed the part wherein I just caught zipperfleshscum and should be voting for him, Sevei. (Note also that zipperflesh hasn't posted in this thread since despite posting elsewhere, an abrupt to our discussion.)

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Damn. You really are his partner, huh?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I'd be very much interested in seeing these, and I'd like to know your thoughts on each player based on them. Unless, of course you want to be caught in a lie...

You seem to have misunderstood. I simply read each player in ISO. There's nothing for you to see. The only meaningful conclusion I drew from it I've already shared: that Djelibeybi is harbouring a dark and terrible secret.

The first quote comes from #224, which was a response to #223. What I say there is correct, but I did use the wrong words. This was a result of me not fact checking, because when I replied Sevei already had some votes. I wasn't concerned about voting order, and what I should have said there was Jesse/Sevei discussion. It seems you believed Jesse had been the first to vote as well, since in #234 you said, "I get the feeling that you switched to Sevei because Jesse was already pushing the Seveiwagon for you." When I answered that, I did go back, and I fact checked. This was where I saw that I had in fact placed the first vote, which as you can see I hadn't realized myself. In all honesty, I thought I had voted after Jesse, but the truth of the matter is that while Jesse was "pushing a Sevei-wagon" with their discussion he was doing so without a vote.

You're not addressing the central issue, which is that you have posited two wildly different motivations for your Seveivote.

So, I made a poor wording choice and a mistake due to posting based on my memory of events rather than what actually happened. Mistakes happen, and that doesn't make me scum. What CES has failed (and still refuses) to do is show reasons (prior this discussion) that make me scum. Why has he done this? I suspect it is because he is scum. Is it unreasonable for me to ask CES why he found me scummy, and is it unreasonable to expect a valid answer from him?

I most definitely have explained why I think you're scum (gut + Seveivote). You just seem to think that I need to provide a convincing case (which my gut is unlikely to provide) merely to include you on my scumlist, which is simply false.

This just shows how callous you are. If you are town, you are doing a poor job of it. You refuse to acknowledge my points because you know they prove you wrong. For some reason you are reluctant to admit you have nothing to hold against me. For you're convenience, I'll repost the specifics:

Just fyi, conciseness is pro-town. But, sure, I'll respond to it as soon as I have some time.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Response to 240.

You are guilty of "baseless attacks" because you continually say people are scum without showing a shred of evidence. Need I remind you this is the same tactic Furcolow attempted to use which resulted in his lynch. If you think people are scummy then you need to put you money where your mouth is, otherwise you're mudslinging.

I'm fairly sure Furcolow got lynched because he fell apart. Guilt by Association isn't going to work here. And putting people on a scum list =/= baseless attacks.

I've already explained what my gut feeling is based on --> Your baseless attacks, and the way you hopped wagons on Day 1.

The gut referred to in "vague gut suspicion" was mine. You may try again.

If you've got more on me then POST IT! I can't very well properly defend myself from a guy calling me scum for no reason, but perhaps when you provide your evidence (I'm doubting you have any...) I'll be able to defend myself.

I have provided said "more". Note that "more" was in response to "null tells and gut".

Are you saying that mafia isn't a game about collecting evidence on a player to convince the town to lynch that person? I don't think so, where I come from we have to prove our accusations or be held accountable.

I consider mafia to be first and foremost a game about finding out the alignment of players. And you're certainly holding me to a ridiculous standard in regards to evidence gathering considering we're discussing a Top 4 suspect (at the time, you've jumped to the top since then) on page 9-11.

Calling people scum without providing a reason is slander, not a part of the game. Proving someone is scum via a presentation of the facts is a part of the game and how you play mafia. Otherwise you're playing WitchhuntTM or GuessTheBadGuyTM.

Nopes. Calling people scum is a part of the game.

I thought you said you were joking when you called Jelly scum. Can you explain why you feel he is scum?

When I presented my Top 4 of suspicions in the form of pairings, the pairings weren't meant to be taking seriously, but I wasn't joking beyond that. Note also that I was voting for Djelibeybi. I am of the opinion that Djelibeybi is scum based on gut and meta. I've played quite a few games with him in the past and I've always found him personally easy to read, remarkably easy considering that he really is a very good player who you're unlikely to catch making plays like your Seveivote.

What do you mean? I was suspicious of both of you for baseless accusations, but I choose to switch my vote to Sevei because of his reaction to Jesse's attack. How is that a contradiction?
Your first explanation didn't mention Sevei's reaction at all (and there's no reason why you'd have forgotten.) It stated quite simply that you switched because there was more support for the Seveiwagon. That is quite clearly a contradiction.

A gut call is not a valid reason to cast suspicion upon anyone. In order for it to be worth a damn you have to validate your gut with evidence. The fact that you continually fail to provide a reason for why I am scum proves to me that you scum just looking for an excuse to lynch someone.

Putting you on my scum list hardly constitutes casting suspicion on you. I'm just signalling how my suspicions lie.

Dodging accusations and questioning is anti-town.

Not responding to more of the same, however, is not.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Welcome! You're either replacing into a great situation or into a slightly sucky situation depending on whether Two Sheds and Djelibeybi are Werewolves or Mafia. (I'm sure someone will be confused by this statement, so I might as well clarify straight away: if they're Werewolves, then it turns into 7-player nightless once we've lynched them; if they're Mafia, then we get 3 lynches (not 2 - we can force the Werewolves to kill the remaining mafia if we screw up a lynch) to lynch both werewolves.)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Question: why is Jesse a werewolf and not mafia?
Question II: why aren't you voting for zipperfleshscum?

Also, Two Sheds is zipperflesh and who Djelibeybi is should be evident if you pronounce it.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

You're making the doubt Djelibeybi as Two Sheds' partner here, Jesse. I would like to know how you stand regarding zipper's changing motivation for the Seveivote in detail.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

All CES's nicknames are from Terry Pratchett. That much I know.

Wrong. "Two Sheds" is from Monty Python.

The two following quotes are why I'm confident that zipper "Two Sheds" flesh is scum.

...for some reason (perhaps you are scum?) I can't get a wagon started on you, so when the Sevei wagon started I hopped over since I was just as suspicous of him.

I came back later once the Jesse/Sevei discussion was underway and voted Sevei based on his response to Jesse, in fact I was the first to vote him.

He gives two very different explanations for the Seveivote. If the second explanation is in any sense true, the first explanation pretty clearly isn't true. And since he gave the first explanation a mere day after placing his vote, the only logical explanation for him getting it wrong is that he made both explanations up - it really was just a vote of opportunism and the dude's scum twice over.

I don't particularly think Sevei's town by the bye. I mean, she's not in my top 4 of suspects, but that's it. No one has struck me as particularly pro-town (although Katsuki struck me as not-mafia.)

Why is PJ scum?

It's hard to quantify but Djelibeybi and I are both mafiascum veterans and my experiences here have taught me that I have a really easy time reading his alignment, identifying him as scum in games wherein he pretty much escapes suspicion otherwise. My gut tells me he is scum in this game too.

Would eliminating the other scum team be especially advantageous? As a wolf you would be down to 6 town vs 2 wolf. Wolves would just have to escape two lynches/ make two nightkills to win. Killing mafia and preserving the "herd" of town would be advantageous, because then you could hide in the herd/ take down town discretely/ cast suspicion on members of town.

I'm not entirely sure, but I'll just give a full answer. Mafia don't want all the werewolves dead too soon since they need the wolf's nightkill to thin the town a bit. Werewolves want the mafia dead since they need the mafia dead to win. Town wants the werewolves dead since that removes the nightkill and gives them extra lynches to hit the mafia with.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Is there any argument for Jesse being a wolf beyond "he voted for Furcolow"? 'Cause that one is terrible.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

The moment dry-fit counterclaimed, Furcolow was for all intents and purposes dead. I wouldn't even count is as bussing - voting for Furcolow in that situation is the only logical move. But no, I don't have any evidence to suggest he is mafia - the only mafiagroup-specific evidence I have is a not-mafia tell on Katsuki.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

In particular, I am not a fan of the attack on Sevei for Sevei’s vote switch to dry-fit when Furcolow claimed Seer. When you unvote a player, it is better to vote for a new player than to sit around without your vote on anybody. One does not need to have a fantastic case to switch votes, especially on Day One, and especially when your unvote is prompted by a power role claim. I do not think Sevei’s reaction was the best, but I also disagree that it was “Furcolow all over again” (as Katsuki claims). I actually think Sevei is probably Town.

Zipperflesh went along with that attack, yet you don't seem to count that against him.

For those among us that are lost: Djelibeybi and zipperflesh are one scum pair. Jesse is probably scum too and Nightson looks like a good fit for fourth scum.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

And CES is pretty easy to convince

Just fyi, I've been suspicious of those 4 since page 9. So, uh, not exactly.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Sure, zipperflesh and Jesse have acted similarly. I don't see how this constitutes an argument for them being buddies - they strike me as the type of player that would avoid that.

I think Djelibeybi is scum with zipperflesh because of the "I thought he was town before"-comment of his which came out of nowhere earlier and the fact that he thinks Jesse is a wolf. The combination of these allows him to distance from zipperflesh without ever having to explicitly choose Jesse over zipperflesh. He's set it up so that Jesse is clearly the better lynch from his "point of view".

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

"He seemed town before" is not scummy in and of itself, no, nor is him thinking Jesse is a wolf. It's just way too convenient that he thinks both those things in terms of what it allows him to do.

[quote="sapperprion']Do you think maybe you really want Jelly to be scum so you're grasping at straws to make it seem so? Do you have a more sinister reason? DUN DUN DUN[/quote]
I believe I'm reasonably good at avoiding tunneling.

Preview edit: I see PJ is defending his opinions. I'm not surprised that you can back them up, Djelibeybi, that's how you play. That doesn't really change anything - judging the actions of quality players on the results, not the motivations, is good practice as they'll fool you consistently otherwise.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

OMGUS FoS: Djelibeybi

Djelibeybi, do you disagree that a naive approach to reading your posts would, in general, not catch you as scum?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I've already answered this question and I think the fact that you need to ask me this is telling.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I am of the opinion that Djelibeybi is scum based on gut and meta. I've played quite a few games with him in the past and I've always found him personally easy to read, remarkably easy considering that he really is a very good player who you're unlikely to catch making plays like your Seveivote.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I'm doing this for emphasis.

It's hard to quantify but Djelibeybi and I are both mafiascum veterans and my experiences here have taught me that I have a really easy time reading his alignment, identifying him as scum in games wherein he pretty much escapes suspicion otherwise. My gut tells me he is scum in this game too.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

All of your first 17 posts, I think. My gut isn't that specific, so there may be a few that aren't among them.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Although I obviously agree with your vote, may I ask why you think zipper is a wolf specifically?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

"Now" implies that I didn't before, which would be false. As I'm a gut-based player, it shouldn't surprise anyone that this suspicion too is gut-based, although in this case I can point to his posts pushing the Seveiwagon as standing out.

Anyway, shotty's reasoning sounds reasonable (Zipper's switch to Nightson stands out here) and someone should hammer zipperflesh since zipper "Two Sheds" flesh is scummity scum.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I suppose we could have another 5 pages of discussion which are then made irrelevant due to zipper's flip and subsequent nightkill telling us so much more. The notion that we should wait till deadline is pernicious and tends to lead to less activity in the long term due to waning interest on the part of players and increased difficulty in obtaining replacements if necessary.

Cogs: I don't think Zippers has two reasons for the Sevievote. He said her day one vote for dryfit was suspicious, he said he didn't like you or Sevie, and he said there was a better wagon against sevie so he hopped on They are all parts of the same explanation. I think his pattern of voting seems a bit suspicious and I don't like his tendency to vote the same as Jessie/ the way he chose to jump on the nightson wagon.

The reasons you're giving here do fit together; this isn't surprising since you're missing a vital one - that Sevei's response to Jesse was supposed to be suspicious suddenly making her more suspicious than me and that one most definitely does contradict the stated reason that he was just going with the wagon that had more support.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

CES has already explained his reasoning ("gut").

Wrong. That was merely my initial reason to suspect him and my initial suspicion has since been almost entirely overshadowed by the Seveivote-contradiction.

also, it should be noted I have tried to get CES lynched

Hardly.

because I remember you saying I had to be scum because I didn't push any lynches... (horrible logic btw)

He said it made you more likely to be a wolf, which is a good argument - mafia need to get the werewolves lynched much more than vice versa, so you'd expect mafia to care more about getting their top suspects lynched.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

EBWOP: Djelibeybi also forgot about my accusation of opportunism re: the Seveivote.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

[quote="I (addressing Two Sheds)"I probably wouldn't have batted an eye if you had started the day voting Sevei, but the timing of the switch seemed highly opportunistic to me. I get the feeling that you switched to Sevei because Jesse was already pushing the Seveiwagon for you.[/quote]

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

EBWOP:

I probably wouldn't have batted an eye if you had started the day voting Sevei, but the timing of the switch seemed highly opportunistic to me. I get the feeling that you switched to Sevei because Jesse was already pushing the Seveiwagon for you.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I'm confused as to why people keep up bringing Furcolow. It's not like a scum tell becomes stronger once we've caught one scum doing it in the same game.

P.S. Shotty's "cases" are pretty sucky. He makes just 1 or 2 points I agree with.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Come on, shotty, vote for zipper! You said you thought he was a wolf and we should definitely try to hit a wolf today.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

This page is sleep-inducing. I might even call it somniferous.

Can we get back to lynching zipper "Two Sheds" fleshscummity scum?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

There was a second there where I thought you had done something bad ass, Djelibeybi, but this was fairly lame. If you had really wanted to pull that off, you should've (and maybe you would have if you were town) waited until the hammer was at least somewhat credible instead of completely out of the blue.

Time for a real hammer.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Everyone was calling for my hammer, so how exactly can you deem Jelly's hammer as anti-town? IMO, this just proves that you think your own vote is anti-town.

This quote is why:

I just read zipperflesh's posts in isolation, and I am reverting back to my opinion that he is Town.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

People unvoting him is not nothing. That's actually pretty much exactly what he needs.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

No. We are lynching Djelibeybi.

Vote: Djelibeybi

(I don't think Jesse has it in him to make a kill that so clearly points to him whereas this is exactly the type of move I see Djelibeybi pulling off.)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Second (and this is a question for both Cogito Ergo Sum and JesseSheffield), why in blazes would I kill saporovirus overnight? Last I checked, saporovirus pretty much said I was the most likely player to be Town (he was 80%) sure.

Well, see, I hadn't noticed that.

Unvote

Going to give this some thought.

On Day One, Cogito Ergo Sum tried to connect me to Dry-Fit

Come on, Djeli, you know better than this. This was on page 3; I had to look it up. Bringing up that question now as if it were serious is disingenuous.

Now he is just voting for me, and to my knowledge, he has not even deigned to a give a reason beyond "gut and meta," when he cannot even point to a single post he thinks is scummy, but instead effectively claimed that all of my posts are scummy.

You say that like it's a bad thing (and I would single out your appeal to the werewolves earlier as a non-scummy post, just fyi).

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Yeah, pretty much that.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I am. I don't know about him; there are still 4 scum in the game.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Upon further consideration I'm thinking PJ makes most sense as a Mafia, so

Vote: Nightson

.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I was actually thinking JesseSheffield made perfect sense as Mafia.

There are two mafia left. I don't see a problem here.

And it's not uncommon for PJ to stay off the lynches.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Nope. That's a valid observation on Sevei's part.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Your whole argument there was that in the end the point of your plea would be that it would help the town...the wolves do not want that! Why would they want to benefit the town in any way

He was advocating for a play which benefits

both

town and 'wolves, at the expense of the mafia of course.

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WHAT TO DO

Vote for Nightson!

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1.) I know why I have not been posting these last couple days, but what's the deal with everybody else?

I'm waiting for more people to vote for Nightson.

Jesse, you're not engaging Jelly's argument at all. There's no reason why Town and Werewolves can't work together to some extent; rejecting it out of hand is completely unreasonable.

I tend to think Jesse would be aware of this if he were werewolf by the bye (note that sapperprion was one of his suspects), so, werewolves, he's your responsibility.

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Maybe it's a difference of game theory then but I don't believe the werewolves would give a crap about anything someone who's alignment they wouldn't know says.

The werewolves would naturally be skeptical, but the argument PJ put forth is solid to the extent that it should be able to win them over regardless.

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Yeah, well, no one else seems to be agreeing with you.

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Colour me thoroughly unconvinced. Can the first post of the game even be IIoA?

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Nope. A hammer would've simply been more opportunistic. That said, this seems to be fairly normal for your play and unlike DGb I do think the iso shows precedent.

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Extreme opportunism detected from drmyshottyizsik who isn't exactly dripping with nightson suspicion, when read in iso.

I didn't have time to iso Drmyshotty yesterday, but CES is correct.

Explain.

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There's nothing to claim, shotty.

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Please respond to #645, DGb.

@Nightson, Page 9, Gut (I certainly don't hold the zipperlynch against you; there was a good case against him).

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DGb, you first claimed that shotty's switch was inconsistent with an iso of his posts and then that you hadn't had time to iso his posts. I'm not sure how my post is supposed to explain that inconsistency.

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I haven't really seen any points made against shotty that went beyond the fact that he's a VI. I don't like this lynch.

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Do you trust DGb to not hammer, Djeli?

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drmyshottyizsik has a an objective 4/7 chance of being scum, and the entire day he has avoided actually making a case against me despite constantly calling me scum, followed by me constantly asking him to explain himself. If he is scum, good riddance if DrippingGoofball (or anybody else) hammers him. If he is Town, then one of the two of us was probably going to be mislynched at some point, and if that is the case, I would rather it be him.

So he's a VI and you're a fan of self-preservation? Yeah, I'm not convinced. Plus, 4/7 chance is bogus since lynching a mafioso doesn't really help us at this point since it just frees up the werewolf kill.

Furthermore, if DrippingGoofball (since you have used her as your example) simply decides to drop a hammer, then she will die either through a nightkill or lynch. This would simply be an added bonus, so far as I'm concerned.

It wasn't meant as an example. I can see DrippingGoofball dropping that hammer regardless of her alignment. And if you're scum, having a good reason to go after DGb does indeed qualify as an added bonus.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

This was so predictable.

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Agreed. Want to lynch Djeli?

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@Djeli, DGb has been somewhat inactive site-wide. This strikes me as an equally valid explanation of the observed behaviour.

Setup now is 2/2/3. Our priority is to lynch scum imo. Why?
If we lynch wolf, then we get 2/1/3, and after NK, either 1/1/3, or 2/1/2.
If we lynch mafia, we get 1/2/3, and after NK, either 0/2/3, or 1/2/2.

Way to ignore pretty much the entire set-up. Lynches are the only tool we have to deal with the wolves. If we lynch a mafioso today, then we'll have to lynch the wolves the next two lynches or we lose (and odds are we'll have to correctly nab the final mafioso the final day too since the wolves have far less motivation to kill the mafia). If we lynch a wolf, the mafia will become a far more significant threat to the remaining wolf (note that we'd still be trying to lynch the wolf at this point, so killing someone like Jesse who we consider likely mafia but not likely wolf is just a good play for the wolf), so we have a good chance of ending up in 1/1/4 at which point we have two lynches to nail the final wolf and depending on circumstances 1 or 3 lynches to nail the final mafioso.

WE ARE LYNCHING A WOLF, OKAY‽

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

He went after you pretty hard just now.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

He also got mad at you, but he most definitely attacked you. If things had turned out differently, his recent push could well have resulted in your lynch.

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*agrees with Djeli*

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¡Stop! Hammertime.

==========[]

Unvote, vote: shotty

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It was the only viable lynch and the questions you asked were pointless.

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You can still post it, just fyi. I don't really care.

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Boo.

P.S. I don't blame you, Haylen. Couldn't have won, realistically speaking.

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Shottylynch was horribly by the bye.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

It's even more obvious if he's told you in the past.