Open 218: Two-fold C9 - Game Over

[Equinox]

Hello, hello. I'm replacing Karma. I shall begin reading momentarily.

[Equinox]

Oh, ho, ho. I don't mind a good challenge.

[Equinox]

Mod: Do we have a deadline?

[Equinox]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHH sorry this is taking so long, but I'm in pain reading some of this, THANK GOD beefster was killed, except for that he was town.

Thread barely opened this morning... you're reading in good time if you've gotten that far. No need to apologize.

...okay, I'm done fluff-posting. /seriousgamefacenao

[Equinox]

XScorpion: No offense taken.

Korejora: Awesome. Thank you!

Tazaro: His vote was on Karma before game suspension.

Whoop-de-do. Two votes on me. Would it make me read any faster, I wonder...?

[Equinox]

If you think Equinox's slot is scum, by all means, vote and put pressure. It's a good way to get someone

to make scum slips

to respond and clarify your read on them. It's 5 to lynch anyway, so I'm not particularly worried.

[Equinox]

You noted that I'm suspcious? I'm town in at least one of these games with you, scorp! I maintain I'm town in both.

WIFOM. You could have drawn scum in them. Also... ongoing. Tsk, tsk.

[Equinox]

unvoting WAS to be more reserved.

The question, then, would be, "Why?"

You've stated that you wanted to give the replacement a chance. I appreciate that you did that, but I was in no danger of being lynched. (Apparently, now I am.) You didn't particularly need to be reserved in that situation, especially when you already had a strong enough gut feeling to place a vote.

That said... I didn't get the chance to do a full read yesterday, so I'm going to try out a new approach. Day 2 seems to be a shorter read that will allow me to jump into this game quicker and start running with it, so I'll do that and post as I go. When I'm done, I'll go back to Day 1 and read. Hopefully, this will eliminate the need to wait 3-4 days while I trod through stuff.

Regarding the votes: I cannot explain Karma's actions, for I am not Karma. If you feel this slot is the correct lynch for the day, I will not object. What I ask is to give me a chance to at least post my impressions and pressure whomever I feel needs pressuring, and when I'm done collecting data, I'm fine with being lynched to give the rest of you the confidence to go on with the game. kthx

[Equinox]

I can understand being cautious for that reason. On the flip side, you don't want to be the person who was right all along but held back. Stick to your guns. If you were disturbed by Karma's play, lay it out, pinpoint why you think Karma is scum, and clarify your gut read. Vote. We're not at a stage where we're going to get quick hammers yet, with half the game still reading. Your vote will help amplify the pressure against me and against possible scum buddies (or, as I see it, scum looking for a mislynch).

[Equinox]

Oh, hey. I just realized something.

9 players -- 4 scum, 5 townies -- 5 to lynch.

One vote on a townie, and you'll have 4 people from both scum teams jumpin' on.

Excellent...

I'm not actually certain of this, as those 4 will go under fire tomorrow assuming town isn't decimated overnight. Still, it's something to think about.

Unless you are absolutely certain you are comfortable ending the game day right now, I suggest unvoting. If you're town, you want to hear me out; I know you do. If you're scum, well, stay there and wait for Animal Control to come pick you up. <3

[Equinox]

No one is going to lynch you before a) Easjo's spot is filled and b) everyone has posted a reasonable amount of content. I'm not going to unvote you. If you want to say something, say it.

Can you say this with absolute certainty? I have reason to fear a quick lynch. (Upon reflection, though, yeah, it probably wouldn't happen. I forgot that easjo682 doesn't have a replacement yet. More on this in my catch-up.)

Well... even if a quick hammer does happen, I can still post content, and town can still use it tomorrow. All of that assumes I beat Korejora to the punch.

I'm not one to hold back what needs to be said, so don't worry about that. The only delay is me catching up. (I'm multitasking at the moment, so this is going to take a while even though Day 2 is a short read.)

[Equinox]

Equinox (2) XScorpion, Mr.Sandman
(No vote) Chronopie, Scott Brosius, Equinox, ODDin, Hinduragi, drmyshottyizsik, Tazaro
9 alive. 5 votes lynch.

I'll take you at your word.

/resumes reading

[Equinox]

Immediate, short thoughts based on Day 2:

Chronopie: Other players' accusations that Chronopie lurked for almost all of Day 2 is noted.
Karma: A few of you were hounding this slot based on playing style differences. I don't condone Karma's actions, but I don't like some of the attacks that were made, either.
Mr. Chaos: Scott Brosius brought up a really big strike here. It's a bit coincidental that both scum factions' targets' suspects included Mr. Chaos, however, so I need to delay judgment here until I read more of this slot.
ODDin: The defense of Chronopie suggests some information. It's impossible to tell whether or not Chronopie is intentionally lurking, yet he wrote it off as Chronopie being "lazy." There is no way to know this for sure short of giving Chronopie veritaserum and forcing him to 'fess up, but ODDin seems a bit too... sure. Do not like.

If I were to vote right now, I'd vote ODDin or Chronopie, in that order of preference.

On to reading Day 1...

[Equinox]

That came out of the blue, Tazaro. The only suspect you mentioned was Karma, and that was a gut reaction. Where did this suspicion of Mr. Chaos come from? What is the difference between placing the second vote on Karma and placing the second vote on drmyshottyizsik?

[Equinox]

Did you read Mr. Chaos's posts yourself before following Hinduragi's reasoning? Do you have a reason to trust Hinduragi when it comes to these things?

[Equinox]

Scott Brosius's suspicion of Mr. Chaos was there prior to game suspension. I'm not surprised that he voted.

I'm not convinced that you were suspicious of Hinduragi before I pointed it out to you. Do you have reason to believe they are trying to lead a mislynch?

You say you've read what other people said about Mr. Chaos. What about Mr. Chaos himself?

[Equinox]

Well, those people referred to the words of Mr. Chaos. And I've read Mr. Chaos's posts of course, but he doesn't explain himself really.

Those people think what they think. Since you voted drmyshottyizsik based (purely?) on other people's suspicions, I wanted to know what you thought of Mr. Chaos, not how he explains himself...

Do you have reason to believe either Scott Brosius or Hinduragi are scum? What makes you think Mr. Chaos's buddy is bussing him? Scum hunting in this setup isn't limited to town.

Am I being cross examined?

Perhaps. Do you fear it?

[Equinox]

Where is your vote, drmyshottyizsik? Weren't you the one who just zoomed through the thread yesterday, glad that Beefster was lynched? Opinions on everyone else, and opinions on the cases against you?

Tazaro, you think Mr. Chaos is being targeted by scum, yet you're voting him anyway...? What? Since when did easjo682 become a suspect in your eyes? That was unexpected, too. Also, instead of asking for others' opinions, maybe give us some of your own.

[Equinox]

I don't like this at all. I understand the first sentence. Most of the rest seems illogical. If it will give you confidence to lynch me, then go ahead? That looks like an attempt to appear pro-town but misses the vital point, that the town don't actually want to lynch a townie, therefore it would be a much more townie thing to do if you defended yourself rather than giving yourself up for a lynch.

We return to the first point in which everyone on my wagon is on the Karma wagon, not the Equinox wagon. Ridiculously difficult to build a defense against a wagon like that. If I had intended to give up, you'd have seen it. I'm not giving up. Whether or not they still want to lynch me after that is up to them.

Tazaro follow's up Hindaguri's suspicion of Chaos nicely, with that vote out of the blue, as pointed out by Equinox, ironically. Steals one argument from Hinduragi, and the other one about L-3 isn't even that scummy to me.

So, do you think it's

normal

to give Equinox the benefit of the doubt and remove an L-3 vote yet deny drmyshottyizsik the same privilege? Neither of these two have finished reading.

[Equinox]

Mr.Sandman: That was not the question I asked. I asked, was it normal for Tazaro to unvote Equinox out of some chivalrous intent and deny drmyshottyizsik that same benefit? Tazaro's vote would have put Equinox at L-3; Tazaro's vote put drmyshottyizsik at L-3. There's a double standard here.

XScorpion: I'm not done reading the thread. I have my suspects (ODDin and Mr. Chaos), but as it's based on an incomplete picture, I'd rather not vote. I'll still question however I feel is necessary, though.

Tazaro: I apologize if my questioning is irritating, but I am not singling you out specifically. I question where I feel I need to push for more.

[Equinox]

Sorry, guys. I've been out yesterday, so I haven't had a chance to finish. Give me a few hours, and I'll be up and running.

...apparently, I'm looking at a doctor claim, L-1, and a hammer. This will be fun.

[Equinox]

I AM DONE. FINALLY.

While beefster looks like obv. scum at this point, the people who are hurriedly jumping to his wagon could easily be on the other faction.

what does it matter if scum are on the wagon of other scum? it still eliminates more scum which is a good thing.

I retract my slight scum read on ODDin and make it a neutral read. ODDin seemed fairly pro-town to me on Day 1, yet he went on defensive for certain players on Day 2, which doesn't sit well with me. I'll need to keep an eye here.

Why are we still arguing about Chronopie? The guy is like the dictionary definition of "lurker." The fact that he's posting elsewhere and not here makes me wonder if he's deliberately staying under the radar. Bad, bad, bad. The fact that he posted an L-1 vote with, like, no opinions whatsoever despite a complete reread seals the deal. Can we lynch it?

Tazaro is difficult to read. I suspect this is his playing style, but it comes off as scummy to me. I'll need to keep an eye here.

Scott Brosius came in with NK speculation, basing his case against Mr. Chaos on the fact that the three dead townies all suspected him. Quite odd, really. I'll need to keep an eye here.

drmyshottyizsik, you should have known better. The first thing you do when you replace a PR, whatever it is, is to ask for your predecessor's night actions. Immediately. It's common sense. Also,

asking

for counterclaims? You don't ask for counterclaims... when you know you are what you are. If you're town doctor, scum doctor isn't going to counterclaim you; if you're scum doctor, asking suddenly makes a lot of sense. Your response is also horrible. The onus is not on us to prove you are not the doctor; we have already taken that step by calling you scum and bringing a case forth. That responsibility is yours. You're the one who claimed, after all!

All right. Chronopie needs to die, but so does drmyshottyizsik. Since we already have had a claim and discussion about it, I think a hammer is appropriate.

Praise me if he is scum. Scorn me if he is not!

VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

[Equinox]

I apologize, but I'm having issues with access at the moment. Posting will be limited.

Good news: With the ratio at 2:4, I am now much more likely to hit scum than to hit town.

Bad news: I have town reads on too many people, and the fact that I'm not dead yet despite posting the IGMEOYs makes me wonder if I'm having off-reads. FML.

Mass claiming isn't going to help, Chronopie. We're all going to end up claiming vanilla townie, especially with that botched doctor claim (*grr*). You're probably scum, anyhow, so... yeah, definitely a "no."

I'm going to go reread and pick my scum target of the day.

[Equinox]

Funny you call XScorpion's case "not really popular." The only reason drmyshottyizsik got lynched instead of me was I hammered, and Scott Brosius didn't.

You're doing a lot of fence-sitting there, ODDin. What happened to the town player you were on Day 1? What happened to all the defending you did on Day 2? Can't find a stance to safely take now, eh, scum?

Mr Sandman pinged my scumdar on D1 but

I

didn't continue pinging it on D2.

Oh, I'm sure you can ping your own scumdar. Nice morning slip there.

You know what? I don't know who the town player is, but it sure ain't ODDin. I'm sure now after reading 563. Let's get this moving, guys. Town, other scum, pile on.

VOTE: ODDin

[Equinox]

Oh, I'd be more than happy to lynch you. I just don't want to vote because lynching a townie today may well mean we've lost. And although I seriously suspect you're scum, I'm not 100% sure you're not the second townie, and so I prefer to be careful and wait with my vote.

I wasn't talking about your lack of a vote. I was talking about your stances. I felt you were a solid town player on Day 1 because you took stances and stood by them. You reversed it on Day 2 when you were less scum hunting and more town defending, which... isn't scum hunting. On Day 3, you just sit on the fence. Most excellent.

I think you're seriously forcing a case on me here. I wonder why. Perhaps because chrono is your scumpartner and so you can't vote him, so you're forced to fabricate a case on somebody else?

Am I forcing it? Eh, not really. Day 1 versus Day 2 behavior was already strange, but you changed gears again on Day 3. Quite odd. Not very townish.

[Equinox]

Mass claiming isn't going to help, Chronopie. We're all going to end up claiming vanilla townie, especially with that botched doctor claim (*grr*). You're probably scum, anyhow, so... yeah, definitely a "no."

Just because there's a 2/3 chance of any player being scum.

Wait a sec.

How is it 2/3? It's actually 4/5.

NOW I CAN'T CHOOSE. CHRONOPIE OR ODDIN?

BRB. Playing with dice.

[Equinox]

ODDin: See, this is what I'm confused about. You were pro-town on Day 1, then you went on defensive mode for a couple of people on Day 2, and now you're back on pro-town mode on Day 3. Sorry for not having specifics; I was working with what I remembered from your play. I'll go do a PBPA.

As for the slip, is there something obviously scummy I can point out? No, not really. But the wording is

odd

. Why would you ping your scumdar when someone acts scummy? It could be as you say, that you were screwing around while editing and forgot, but that excuse is so ridiculously easy to use. It reminds me of one time when someone said, "Maybe the doctor thought that I would..." and used the very explanation you gave me. He flipped scum. YAY FOR ANECDOTAL STUFF.

While I do that PBPA thing, here, have some obvscum.

Unvote, Vote: Chronopie

Remember this when I get quick-lynched, other town player. If the other two scum teams don't gun for you, that is.

[Equinox]

For the record:

Chronopie and Mr.Sandman are most likely scum.
Hinduragi and ODDin are probably scum.
XScorpion is probably town.

I have come to this conclusion based on game play and some process of elimination. So, anyone I have pegged as at least probscum, I'm willing to lynch. I've promised to look over ODDin and explain why he's probscum. After that, I'll go through Mr.Sandman to explain why he's scum. Everyone else... by request or whenever I get around to it.

[Equinox]

Equinox (1) XScorpion
Chronopie (1) Equinox
(No vote) Chronopie, ODDin, Mr.Sandman, Hinduragi
6 alive; 4 votes lynch.

They're not teams. They're my reads.

XScorpion, I know I'm town. I happen to think you're town based on your play on Days 1 and 2. That just rules everybody else out, doesn't it?

Case on ODDin is coming, but as for Mr.Sandman, I'll give you a quick line now and promise details later: Look at Day 2, post suspension. I got the impression he was playing "follow the leader." Laid low for the most part.

[Equinox]

ODDin, thinking that I'm distancing Chronopie is

really

pushing it, and it's borderline tunneling. I've already stated that I'm willing to lynch anyone ranked at least probscum on my list, and I mean it. I would have lynched him on Day 2, except drmyshottyizsik was both obvscum and a viable wagon. Turns out I was wrong on the first count.

What changed my mind, you ask? I've already explained. I'm flip-flopping on my read of you -- one day you're town, one day you're not, and then you are. Confusing the hell out of me. The one thing I am sure of is you're not town because I have my other town (I think).

As for defending people, it was the degree I felt you were doing it. BUT YEAH. LESS BICKERING, MORE ISO-ING.

BRB.

[Equinox]

I screwed up so badly... At least I can hold onto one little shred of pride, knowing that I called 3 of the scum. Not that it means anything, since it was just process of elimination at that point.

Well played, mafia, well fucking played.

The way I see it now, it's game over. Funny, though, that you lot take the more interesting route for this endgame. I'LL BITE. LET'S DO THIS.

VOTE: No Lynch

[Equinox]

XScorpion, a

werewolf

, was killed.

YOU'RE KIDDING, RIGHT?

Wow.

My reads were totally off. FML.

That said, very well played, mafia. Same to the werewolves for throwing me off on Day 2, as well, though the events after that were rather unfortunate.

All I can say is, lurk less and lie less. That shot town in the foot. I was cussing at the screen when drmyshottyizsik flipped townie. I was headdesking when Chronopie flipped townie. Argh.

Good game. Hope to see you lot again.

Korejora, great modding as usual. <3