Open 242 - Friends and Enemies Mafia (Over!)

[molestargazer]

What's with the poems?
I think I'll change things a bit.
Haiku!

Vote: gandalf

[molestargazer]

Unvote, Vote Haylen

Until I get some ice cream
I'm not unvoting.

[molestargazer]

I don't get how scum
Can find masons easier
In the RVS.

Although on that note
I think it's time to move on
Connections or not.

Gandalf, I don't get
Why BM's vote for DarkLight
Is a scummy thing.

Unrelated, yes.
But how does it make him scum?
Doesn't seem important.

[molestargazer]

B-But I enjoy it!
Also it saves me from my playstyle which involves lots of quoting and boredom.

But if difficult
Or irritating to read
I'll stop - just tell me.

[molestargazer]

Fair enough. BM - Do you have a reason for that vote?

[molestargazer]

Of course we should wait, hammering him's out of the question this early on.

[molestargazer]

@BM - You should put some completed games in your Wiki, it would make looking for meta on you so much easier.

@DarkLightA - Why's BM digging his own grave? I see nothing wrong.

[molestargazer]

I've not been around for all of my 4 years and I've not played that many games. Just saying it would be nice to have some reference.

[molestargazer]

You honestly think that makes Haylen scum?
Apart from self-voting (not a scumtell in my book, especially in the RVS) and joking (not either), do you have anything?

[molestargazer]

*hands molestar some ice cream*
Do you have any suspects yet? Because you're still on this random vote and haven't talked about who could be scum.

No, to be quite frank, I've neglected this game. Will spend some time catching up.

But, until I do,

Unvote

. Because the RVS vote is, well, pointless.

[molestargazer]

My condolences, CSL. Don't rush back for us.

[molestargazer]

Just skimmed the game. My gut says

Vote: Gandalf

.

Now, here's the reasons my brain can find for why my gut thinks he needs to do the hemp fandango today.

- Original vote for BM is OK, but the fact he continues the case after BM explained both why he did it and the reasoning behind the vote that he didn't post in the first place...
- Followed by a quick "Oh, I agree with Haylen" then a backtrack because he can't continue the case. His next post is also "I agree with Haylen", whilst being completely pointless.
- "I agree with Zwet."
- Zwet's 106-111 discussion with Gandalf makes perfect sense to me, but he's acting confused.
- "I agree with SSBF."
- "I agree with DarkLightA."
- I don't know what this is called, but it's scummy. "Every time I've been lynched for this before, I've been town" doesn't mean you are this time.

[molestargazer]

*Sigh*

Unvote

[molestargazer]

why did you think gandalf’s agreement posts were scummy? People had already recognized him as a follower. Did you consider his motivation to do this as scum? Because you didn’t explain it like you did for the other tells in your case, and I don’t know why.

I would have thought that was obvious. It's not doing any scumhunting himself, and just tagging along to what other people said to try and look pro-town.

Just because people had already recognised it doesn't mean I can't bring it up when I read him over.

[molestargazer]

My 2 top suspects went up in flames with the mason claim. I don't feel that SSBF is particularly lynchworthy at the moment, I don't really see why he's scummy. I'm quite open to changing my mind though.

@Non-voters who is your top suspect and would you compromise for either/both of the biggest wagons?

I would be happy to compromise and vote for Zwet. I find a few of BM's points on his "Why zwet is town" post to be a little dubious.

In fact, since this is probably going to be the last chance I get to vote today,

Vote: Zwet

It's not ideal, I'd like more time to get my scumhunting on, but I don't have it - and a lynch is always preferable to a no-lynch.

[molestargazer]

Mole is my top scum pick. It doesn't look like he tried to understand the SSBF wagon at all, just discounting it for as long as he could. Meanwhile he doesn't go out and say he finds zwet suspicious when he votes him. Just a comment on how BM's read that doesn't mean anything and doesn't make mole stand a stand on his own.

Vote: molestargazer

1. I didn't completely discount the SSBF wagon. I didn't have much time, but I took a quick look at each.
2. I found Zwet the more suspicious of the 2. Hence the vote.

[molestargazer]

It looked like you had plenty of time on August 20 to post in another game (that was not close to deadline BTW). Why couldn't you have spent an hour looking at the SSBF and zwet cases, and commented on them directly?

Because I'm lazy and I procrastinate.

You had previously agreed with zwet's case (106 to 111) on gandalf. Then you say BM's reasons for finding zwetscenwasser were dubious? Can you explain that now?

I can't change my mind?

So how are you not a hypocrite here?

I probably am. It happens quite a lot - I don't keep track of what I say about things, I come back on a different day and interpret things differently.

[molestargazer]

Hi afatchic. I think there's a good chance mole is scum because he seemed to have time to read the game and make a real post before deadline, but instead made that post where he just voted zwet over SSBF without saying what he felt about either player. Getting a majority lynch on day 1 was looking kinda iffy, so scum could have easily stalled or avoided the thread in order to get no lynch or push zwet over SSBF (if zwet is town, which I think he is).

Before the deadline I was lazy. By the time I posted, I didn't have time to look over them properly, so I did the best I could with the time I had. That's the truth of it, believe what you want.

and now, i believe my strongest read is mole, so

vote: molestargazer

Could you please link me to / restate your case on me so I can defend myself, please?

[molestargazer]

admit to neglecting the game

I can't see how this is a scumtell, both town and scum can do this.

minor points because you side on the zwet wagon, and don't give much attention to SSBF at all.

What are your reads on Zwet / SSBF? Do you think that I'm siding / going against one because I'm scum with them or something?

[molestargazer]

EBWOP: Ignore that second bit, I'm an idiot.

[molestargazer]

Sorry folks, been a little busy. Got myself a new laptop and I'm posting from that, so apologies if I make typos, not used to this keyboard.

Someone asked me for my top suspects, so I'll have a re-read and present my thoughts.

The Thoughts:

I'm still of the opinion that Zwet-scum is a distinct possibility.
- He continues to attack the masons after the claim. Originally this might not be scummy in itself, but it could be seen as a scum motive to legitimately kill off masons.
- He backpedals and changes to Jahudo after he realises no-one's going to follow the plan. He doesn't give any reasoning when he first makes the vote, and then later claims that Jahudo's "vote-hopping" was part of the reason for the vote. Now, looking at Jahudo's ISO before the date of Zwet's explanation (August 20), I see 4 different votes in the whole game - 2 of which were on Zwet and BM during RVS. Doesn't really seem like vote hopping to me.

His hammer on SSBF can't really be taken as a tell either way.

Any other reads? Honestly, it's tricky to find any right now.
I'd like to hear more from Haylen and Jordan (Sorry to hear about your Uni place by the way, hope it's all sorted).

Then you say BM's reasons for finding zwetscenwasser were dubious? Can you explain that now?

I figured I'd comment on this a little more rather than my earlier passive-aggressive-seeming response.

This is the post in question.
- Note points 2 and 3, which in large talk about scumhunting. But really, any scum who don't want to die would attempt to 'scumhunt'.
- States that he isn't scum because he continues to hunt the masons, calling it the 'scum's wet-dream'. Which brings in a lot of WIFOM.
At the time I made my zwet-voting post, I had read the above post and found the reasons a little weak, so I figured I would vote for Zwet, because it could have been scum covering each other - and I hadn't seen much from SSBF that was lynch-worthy.

Since I'm not voting,
VOTE: Zwet

[molestargazer]

I thought it was scumhunting - or at least, it looked like it. I

don't

think that's a reason not to lynch him.

[molestargazer]

Oh, sod.

[molestargazer]

VOTE:mole

CHOO CHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL SC- oh, wait.

There's much I can say in my defence to that other than make more silly noises, which I'd rather not do. Let's not just make a wagon for the sake of it which scum could jump onto and finish the game, eh?

[molestargazer]

Oh, yeah, I forgot we got one already.

I can assure you you're not targeting scum.

Oh, and EBWOP: There's

not

much I can say to your ridiculous attack on me so far. How about giving me something I can defend against?

[molestargazer]

/Prodded.
Still kinda stuck as for who to vote for, I may try and go with Jahudo's suggestions and look at Haylen & afatchic when I get the chance.

[molestargazer]

The other game I was in has just finished, hopefully now I'll stop procrastinating between the two and actually focus on this one. Looks like my limit of games is... 1 at once.

As much as I'm guilty of hypocrisy (nothing new there), I agree with Jahudo.
Left alive, there is:
- gandalf5166
- molestargazer
- Battle Mage
- JordanA24
- Jahudo
- Haylen
- CSL

Let's discount Gandalf (mason), and myself (obviously).
- Battle Mage
- JordanA24
- Jahudo
- Haylen
- CSL
We have 2 scum in these 5.

Jahudo

- Seems pretty town to me. I've not seen anything in his play which suggests that he's scum, and he seems to play generally well.

Battle Mage

- Ugh. Heavily defended Zwet during D1, who later turned out to be town. Had a mega debate with SSBF, and really gunned for his lynch (See ISO 22, 29-31), which I don't think a scumbuddy would do. I'm going to discount him.

So, 3 are left:
- JordanA24
- Haylen
- CSL

I would be quite happy to bet both scum are in here.

Jordan

- Has had a lot of RL issues, as far as I can make out, but either way, it's led to lurking and him being essentially unreadable.

CSL

- Between replacements, I can't see enough from either his or afatchic's ISO to merit a read either way.

Haylen

- Now it's been pointed out, the vote switch does concern me, seeing as it was shortly after my Zwet vote put the Zwet wagon into the lead. Also, in Post 329 Haylen could "see a scumteam made of zwets and BM". 3 posts later, she switches to SSBF who she hadn't commented on at all earlier. It makes little sense to me why she would switch away from someone who:
a) Had the most votes
b) She really seemed to think was scum at the time (see ISO 13 and 14)

VOTE: Haylen

[molestargazer]

mole, I have had RL issues too. Me and Jordan have been through everything in the past month together and tomorrow we're moving in together. Moving house is one of the most stressful events I've ever experienced. That's why I've been gone.

Pretty sure I've mentioned that before and yet Mole only excuses jordan for it because of this, I can see a Jordan/Mole scumteam pretty easily. His reasoning for voting me, is that I votehopped to SSBF, I have already explained this. It was less than an hour to deadline and I wanted to see a lynch because that's the only thing the town has to go on. Are you saying that you didn't want to have a lynch yesterday? You're also making me look bad for not answering a question that I haven't even seen til now.

Vote molestargazer

I'm sorry to hear about all your RL stress, and I hope everything gets sorted out - but inactivity isn't the reason I'm voting you.
I'm not sure I believe your explanation - like I said in the post, Zwet was still (IMO) a more likely lynch had you kept your vote on him.

If Haylen was scum:

A. Wouldnt i be dead?
B. Wouldnt CSL be dead? lol

A, B: I have no idea, why would you 2 be dead? Could you explain this?

Okay, mole is not only scum, but BM is his buddy. CSL, unreadable? He's the most obv town player in this game aside from me.

What?

[molestargazer]

Ok done. mole is a good lynch

Whyzat then?

[molestargazer]

If Haylen was scum, she would not want to get lynched by me, would know im probably going to keep a closer eye on her than most, and would therefore probably kill me asap. I guess she can elaborate on B if she wishes to defend herself in this way. It's not really appropriate for me to do so.

BM

You haven't attacked Haylen once throughout the whole game, so I'm not entirely sure she'd have reason to kill you.
But we are straying into WIFOM here.

[molestargazer]

Throwing accusations about with nothing to back them up isn't going to convince anyone. WHY am I scum?

[molestargazer]

Because your ISO is basically fluff, and scumreads that aren't backed up properly.

VOTE: molestargazer

Your ISO isn't any better.

Well, it appears to be L-1. Claiming seems silly, but I may as well say that I am a Vanilla Townie.

[molestargazer]

If mole ends up town, haylen is scum.

I can run with that.

[molestargazer]

Hammer time.

If you are not Haylen, gandalf, mole, or me, hammer mole in your next post.

Fine, as long as that person follows Jahudo's idea of lynching Haylen tomorrow.

@Gandalf - I hope my death shows you that being confirmed town does not mean you're always right, nor does it mean it's any more acceptable to vote for people without any form of case. Hypocrite I might be here, but your play today's been frankly godawful.

[molestargazer]

Hopefully with me out the way the scum can't pin it on anyone else.

Go town.

[molestargazer]

What would be the point in that? I'm dead now, nothing's going to change that.

[molestargazer]

Gah, I should've pressed Haylen-wagon more. Well played though, good game.