Open 220 - Friends and Enemies - town wins!

[Empking]

Vote: InHim

If he was town then scum would've killed him.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: RF

Spamming.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: RF

Spamming.

How am I spamming? I made two posts so far?

Your second post was an OT reply to an OT post.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: Dizzy

Worst than RF.

[Empking]

InHim; Why is It scummy?

bv: How is it not productive?

[Empking]

Dizzy: Why is putting a player at L-1 a voting matter but putting a player at L-2 (like you just did) perfectly reasonable?

[Empking]

SOG: Did you prod?

[Empking]

Well, we're still kind of starting, I see.

I would vote OpposedForce, but then I would be doing exactly what I'm voting him for - and that's called hypocrisy. He's my top suspect now. However:

Vote: Empking

for his vote on Reality Fan - It seemed very serious, yet Reality Fan did not appear to be spamming. And then he votes Dizzy because he's "worse." Empking, could you explain both those votes?

You really should vote the person who you find scummiest rather than trying to stop yourself looking scummy.

Voted RF because he was posting posts (well one) unrelated to the game. I think I had the same reason for voting Dizzy.

[Empking]

I have a question to the town. Does putting someone at lynch -1 give off a scum or town tell. If so why?

The actual thing (barring special circumstances e.g a player saying thay'll hammer the first player to get to L-1) is null in my book.

[Empking]

MPR: You still alive?

Chevre: Who would you rather see lynched? OF or Dizzy.

[Empking]

Chevre: Who would you rather see lynched? OF or Dizzy.

OpposedForce. What about you?

Dizzy.

[Empking]

Chevre: Who would you rather see lynched? OF or Dizzy.

OpposedForce. What about you?

Dizzy.

Why?

Dizzy is scummier than OF.

She seems to be active lurking, and a second wagon was made ridiculously quickly in response to Dizzy's wagon.

[Empking]

That's it?

What else is there?

[Empking]

Nothing, but I kinda expected you to fabricate something else so your case didn't sound so weak.

Why Opposed Force?

[Empking]

Dizzy: What's definitely scummy?

[Empking]

OF: Please claim.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: OF

Does anybody know whether he's posting elsewhere?

[Empking]

Yeah can you prode or replace players.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote; bv

Go go go.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote; bv

Go go go.

Worried you're going to out yourself if we actually start talking?

Overdefensive.

Go go go.

[Empking]

SB: I can't make up my mind because I haven't decided who's scum yet. The scummiest person keeps changing and my vote goes with it.
I asked for a claim because the game stalled.
OT posts are both scummy and possibly active lurking.

Do you honestly not know how a quick opposing wagon reflects badly on dizzy? (The scum would build an opposing wagon in order to save one of their own.)

Hit: Do you honestly think that you have to have the same reason for everything you do. (I voted her for one reason. I kept my vote on her for another.)

[Empking]

Alright, let's take this one nice and slow.

You voted RF and, later, Dizzy for 'active lurking' when it amounted to a couple of off-the-cuff social posts. This is a non-bandwagoning vote - you're unlikely to sway others that affability is a scumtell, and so this basicially amounts to another random vote. Not the worst thing in the world.

Wrong.

But then you, when asked, said that the vote was for the quick swelling counter-wagon on OF. So you put the vote on for a RVS reason, and then

it was, by coincidence, turned into a real vote?

. While I can see that happening in some cases, your actions don't jive with what you're saying. If you have an arbitrary (non-bandwagonable) reason you're voting someone for, and a real (wagonable) offense comes out, you want to share that immediately. After all, a townie wants people voting for the wagon they're on, and when justification for a vote rolls in, you want to shout that to the goddamn rooftops.

BS

And as an aside on the argument "OF's wagon swelled so fast, Dizzy must be scum." When you look at the events in context, it basicially turns in to the claim "At least one of inhim and bv is scum with Dizzy." While I can see those events as possible, it makes enough sense that bv and inhim are both townies who just don't like early L-1 votes that it doesn't really lend any proof to that interpretation.

There's always an argument for a tell to not be conclusive. So, irrelevant.

But you already knew this, didn't you, Empking? After all, your very next vote cast is completely dependent on your 'wagon analysis' being wrong.

Fine I'll admit it. I don't think an early page 2 is conclusive and the end of all thought.

If scum-Dizzy gets a quick-counterwagon in her roundabout defense, the counter-wagoned party is a townie. That's the point of a counter-wagon. So when you voted for OF, you were saying that the quick of votes on him was NOT a counter-wagon to scum hitting L-1. The fact that you didn't say anything of the sort and apparently completely forgot your own 'reasons' for voting Dizzy lends a lot of credence to my interpretation - that your wagon analysis argument was really just a hastily provided justification for voting Dizzy, one that you yourself never put any stock in.

Fine I'll admit it. I don't think an early page 2 is conclusive and the end of all thought.

) The fact that you didn't label your vote as the penultimate one certaintly suggests you would have no particular qualms with OF being lynched.

I presume that all the players in the game can read. That's not scummy.

Which is why it's really weird you switched to bv. The certainty you'd need to have to so casually throw out an unlabeled L-1 vote would imply that for you to move your vote would take something serious. But you switched it for what? To smack the only player in the town not sitting around being worthless?

bv was trying to take us back to the RVS, that's clearly the scummiest thing that's happened so far.

How can you argue that bv was not worthless when he was actively trying to attack the chances town has of winning?

If that's enough for your vote, then it's very hard to believe that you honestly think OF is scum to the degree that you'd go with the herd and L-1 without any labeling or reasoning. You put people at L-1 when you're pretty sure they're scum, and you obviously don't think that about OF's slot or else you wouldn't have hopped to bv.

You seem to be confusing L-1 with hammering. L-1 is a vote for the scummiest player. Hammering is when you're sure of a player being scum.

[Empking]

Alright, let's take this one nice and slow.

You voted RF and, later, Dizzy for 'active lurking' when it amounted to a couple of off-the-cuff social posts. This is a non-bandwagoning vote - you're unlikely to sway others that affability is a scumtell, and so this basicially amounts to another random vote. Not the worst thing in the world.

Wrong.

But then you, when asked, said that the vote was for the quick swelling counter-wagon on OF. So you put the vote on for a RVS reason, and then

it was, by coincidence, turned into a real vote?

. While I can see that happening in some cases, your actions don't jive with what you're saying. If you have an arbitrary (non-bandwagonable) reason you're voting someone for, and a real (wagonable) offense comes out, you want to share that immediately. After all, a townie wants people voting for the wagon they're on, and when justification for a vote rolls in, you want to shout that to the goddamn rooftops.

BS

And as an aside on the argument "OF's wagon swelled so fast, Dizzy must be scum." When you look at the events in context, it basicially turns in to the claim "At least one of inhim and bv is scum with Dizzy." While I can see those events as possible, it makes enough sense that bv and inhim are both townies who just don't like early L-1 votes that it doesn't really lend any proof to that interpretation.

There's always an argument for a tell to not be conclusive. So, irrelevant.

But you already knew this, didn't you, Empking? After all, your very next vote cast is completely dependent on your 'wagon analysis' being wrong.

Fine I'll admit it. I don't think an early page 2 is conclusive and the end of all thought.

If scum-Dizzy gets a quick-counterwagon in her roundabout defense, the counter-wagoned party is a townie. That's the point of a counter-wagon. So when you voted for OF, you were saying that the quick of votes on him was NOT a counter-wagon to scum hitting L-1. The fact that you didn't say anything of the sort and apparently completely forgot your own 'reasons' for voting Dizzy lends a lot of credence to my interpretation - that your wagon analysis argument was really just a hastily provided justification for voting Dizzy, one that you yourself never put any stock in.

Fine I'll admit it. I don't think an early page 2 is conclusive and the end of all thought.

) The fact that you didn't label your vote as the penultimate one certaintly suggests you would have no particular qualms with OF being lynched.

I presume that all the players in the game can read. That's not scummy.

Which is why it's really weird you switched to bv. The certainty you'd need to have to so casually throw out an unlabeled L-1 vote would imply that for you to move your vote would take something serious. But you switched it for what? To smack the only player in the town not sitting around being worthless?

bv was trying to take us back to the RVS, that's clearly the scummiest thing that's happened so far.

How can you argue that bv was not worthless when he was actively trying to attack the chances town has of winning?

If that's enough for your vote, then it's very hard to believe that you honestly think OF is scum to the degree that you'd go with the herd and L-1 without any labeling or reasoning.

You put people at L-1 when you're pretty sure they're scum,

and you obviously don't think that about OF's slot or else you wouldn't have hopped to bv.

BS.

You seem to be confusing L-1 with hammering. L-1 is a vote for the scummiest player. Hammering is when you're sure of a player being scum.

[Empking]

Vote: Empking

Reasoning?

[Empking]

I'm a mason.

Unvote

Vote: Hit