Open 220 - Friends and Enemies - town wins!

[DizzyIzzyB13]

vote: SensFan

Hi guys!

[DizzyIzzyB13]

By the way, mod, you forgot to edit the title so it says that day one has begun.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Vote:Dizzy

for having a tengaged donation link in your sig, even though you haven't been on for 137 days.

Jealous that I managed to escape?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Vote: Dizzy

OMGUS. DIE FRIENEMY, DIE!

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I support this wagon.

Vote: Dizzy

Why are you following the OMGUS vote?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I do encourage a Dizzy wagon, since analysing it will provide good information as to where the scum is.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I support this wagon.

Vote: Dizzy

Why are you following the OMGUS vote?

More importantly, why aren't you?

Self-voting is for scum and fools. I am neither.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Fun fact: 11 people have posted in this thread so far, including the mod. Thus, there are two people who've not even posted yet and someone has had the genius idea of putting someone at L-1.

vote: OpposingForce

Empking is also looking interesting to me, since he's throwing around votes in an apparently serious manner for entirely nonsensical reasons.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Even if I were scum (not, btw), how exactly does a quicklynch help the town? You lynch someone based on nothing this quickly, and the town damages its own changes of finding evidence to convict buddies. Frankly, the speed of this wagon suggests that there's probably coordinating scum on it right now.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Dizzy: Why is putting a player at L-1 a voting matter but putting a player at L-2 (like you just did) perfectly reasonable?

a) I was under the impression that it was L-3, not L-2, since I missed a vote and b) L-1 is one mistake away from a lynch, which kinda makes it much more dangerous than L-2.

Even if I were scum (not, btw), how exactly does a quicklynch help the town? You lynch someone based on nothing this quickly, and the town damages its own changes of finding evidence to convict buddies. Frankly, the speed of this wagon suggests that there's probably coordinating scum on it right now.

Who said anything about quick lynching? Do you believe that was my intention? If so does this make me scum?

Uh, if there was a lynch (which is perfectly possible at L-1 without any intent), it would be a quicklynch at this point, which is why you should be more careful with your votes if you're town. I'm not entirely sure what your intention was, but if it was to quicklynch, you'd be a helluva lot more likely to be scum than town.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I do not disagree with you on the intention of a quicklynch looking like more scum than town. However I disagree with no information being garnered in the following day as people can reflect on how the lynch was conceived and how people reacted to the bandwagon.

You can and should do that with any and all lynches. Quicklynches, though, deny the town the mass of data generated by good discussion.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I have a question to the town. Does putting someone at lynch -1 give off a scum or town tell. If so why?

It depends on the circumstnaces. The act itself is a null tell, it's the who/where/what/when/why that can make it scummy.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Empking expressed pretty much teh same sentiment.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I have a question to the town. Does putting someone at lynch -1 give off a scum or town tell. If so why?

I'd say townish early on, then gets gradually scummier throughout the day.

Obviously, other circumstances affect this, etc, etc.

Wow, the stupidity contained within this poist is... mindboggling.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

No, you?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

And what possible motivation does town have to try and quicklynch early on day one? None. How much does Scum benefit from it, particularly in a smallish game such as this.? A lot.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Chevre: Who would you rather see lynched? OF or Dizzy.

OpposedForce. What about you?

Dizzy.

I am very curious as to why.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

That's it?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Nothing, but I kinda expected you to fabricate something else so your case didn't sound so weak.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Nothing, but I kinda expected you to fabricate something else so your case didn't sound so weak.

Why Opposed Force?

He's done something that's definitively scummy and out of the four pages of content, he's the most likely to be scum.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Dizzy: What's definitely scummy?

Uh, the L-1 vote, given the circumstances of it within the game? It's something that absolutely benefits scum without a benefit to town, which is the definition of scummy.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Muthaa, let's put things in order here.

This came first:

Oh, I didn't realize lynch was at 6. So I guess that was L-1.

Then I posted:

No, I just didn't want him to be at L-0 with my vote. I agree that this day should go on quite a bit longer.

Now that's cleared up, I knew:

a) this was Friends and Enemies, which has 12, so a lynch would be no less than 6
b) OF had 4 votes.

Therefore, my vote made no danger. Anyone who quickhammers OF now is facing some major scrutiny seeing how

1) This game is only 5 pages
2) OF hasn't claimed

So my vote is perfectly fine.

I find it interesting that you seem to be assuming OF will flip town despite putting him at L-1, since the circumstances you describe as making your vote "fine" appear to be primarily applicable to OF flipping town. I mean... lynching him before he claims doesn't matter if he's scum and the length of the day tends to be much less of an issue around these parts if scum is lynched.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Responding to prod. I have nothing more to sday, because I'm behind on the thread due to the hideous skin giving me headaches. I suggest if there's a deadline, it should be extended, preferably until soime point after a proper skin is introduced.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

We didn't. There was a no lynch yesterday. VOTE: MehPlusRawr for typical Mafia behaviour.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Vote: bv130

seems like a good initial gut vote for the day.

Any reason for this vote beyond "gut"?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Huh. I only went down as far as his claim yesterday to recap.

Why?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Dizzy is scum, Hito isn't.

Care to justify this?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Well, at least we know who dies tonight.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

[b}unvote,[/b] VOTE: Chevre[/b].

That stupid, poorly thought through plan smacks of scum attedmpting to look townish and proactive.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

unvote,

VOTE: Chevre.

That stupid, poorly thought through plan smacks of scum attedmpting to look townish and proactive.

EBWOP

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I'm not sure I agree with that, Starbuck. It's an extended V/LA statement rather than a request for replaceemnt. I'm more inclined to buy it as genuine since Chevre's given specific dates rather than vaguely said they won't be back for a few days or something.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Well, I don't think it was such a "poorly thought through plan". Anyway you look at it it's pretty town-aligned. If it works we get a chance to find scum, if it doesn't we know who's the mason and have more chance catching scum (which is the case). I agree with hito that chevre doesn't deserve those votes.

Of course it's poorly thought out. Chevre baited the Mason to claim, meaning we have one person who's confirmed and will die tonight. How exactly does that help town?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Once the final mason is out of play, any chance of mafia being trapped by claiming is taken off the table, since all that's left are mafia and townies.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Chevre baited the Mason to claim

Actually, I claimed because I knew that I would be driven to a claim anyway. rather than waste the town's time, I claimed straight away.

You would have done better to wait as long as possible before claiming.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

@DIB13: Ok so what you're saying is that the claim should have been done later?

It would certainly be more useful later.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

bv310 = scum.

Bank on it for the parrot of Moospiker.

Then why are you not voting for him?

unvote, vote bv

We're getting dangerously close to the deadline, with little activity. I suggest we try and come to a consensus even if it means voting for people who aren't our number one suspects. Right now, I'd prefer a bv lynch to a Chevre lynch, but I'd go for either in order to get a lynch today.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Not yet, Muthaa, he said he was delaying the deadline for replacements.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Finally.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Well, that was predictable. Nice work, Chevre.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Well, that was predictable. Nice work, Chevre.

To be honest, with how little moospiker seemed to care about the game, drawing the nightkill was probably the best use of his mason role. Kept it off of the more active players for a night.

Well, a) he could have been replaced and b) he doesn't have to care about the game to coast into LYLO or whatever and help win the game for the town.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I'm unconvinced by the case against Starbuck. If you're using the bv defence against her, all she seemed to do is defend him because of meta-knowledge of his lurker tendencies and then changed her mind when he showed up and acted scummy. I don't see the problem with this. Frankly, it seems like picking on an easy target, aka a scum driven wagon.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I agree with Starbuck. It's a weak wagon that I don't particularly buy, and the way Muthaa jumped on it with such little conviction just seems horribly scummy. VOTE: Starbuck.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

ACK, I MEAN VOTE: MUTHAA DAMMIT.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I don't know whather I should be annoyed you think I'm a liar or pleased that you think I'm far more competent than I am.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Lurking generally isn't any kind of tell at all, anyway. If anything, a lurker is more likely to be town than scum.

Who is everyone’s top suspect?

Muthaa, I guess, althought havingfitz is the one person trying to control the direction of the game right now and in these types of games, that behaviour always warrants further attention.

Would you support a no lynch, and if so…when?

No.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Dizzy quick to give Chevre praise after the bv lynch.

If you were paying attention, you'd clearly be aware that I was sarcaqstically thanking Chevre for getting the last Mason, Moospiker, killed at a sub-optimal moment by initiating his Mason claim. Frankly, if you weren't paying enough attention to realise that, I question the validity of aNY CONCLSUION YOU'VE MANAGED TO DRAW.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

VOTE: Muthaa

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I'm not avoiding this thread, I just haven't finished writing the post I need to make.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

As promised. I've been busy, which is why I've been doing this a bit at a time, so sorry if it seems a tad disjointed...

Firstly, an explanation for my Muthaa vote. I'd first like to point out that it's not like I just jumped on Muthaa to hammer him. In fact, prior to hammering him, my last vote was the unintentional hammer of Starbuck that was supposed to be a Muthaa vote.

I agree with Starbuck. It's a weak wagon that I don't particularly buy, and the way Muthaa jumped on it with such little conviction just seems horribly scummy. VOTE: Starbuck.

ACK, I MEAN VOTE: MUTHAA DAMMIT.

I maintained suspicion of Muthaa while not voting for him earlier in day four, too:

Lurking generally isn't any kind of tell at all, anyway. If anything, a lurker is more likely to be town than scum.

Who is everyone’s top suspect?

Muthaa, I guess, althought havingfitz is the one person trying to control the direction of the game right now and in these types of games, that behaviour always warrants further attention.

Would you support a no lynch, and if so…when?

No.

Muthaa just wasn't a particularly pro town player - as I noted, I found his actions re: Starbuck suspicious, and a further look back accentuated this - aside from RVS and a couple of earlier votes on Day Three, Muthaa's vote went pretty much unused. I found it odd that he'd feel the need to use it towards Starbuck, especially considering he changed his mind for weak reasoning which seemed to rule out that he was just being careful with his vote. This seemed more suspicious when Starbuck flipped town, and I probably would have followed up more strongly on this had I been less concerned with not getting lynched after my screw up with the Starbuck lynch.

Looking at the rest of his posting is kinda sketchy - there were long periods between some posts, and a number of posts that promise content at some future date. The majority of his posts were short and fairly lacking in content. It's certainly true he could just have been an uninterested townie (I mean, you can say that about several people in this game, probably, and clearly they aren't all scum), but it made him potentially scum, at least, and in tandem with the behaviour re: Starbuck, that's why I voted for him.

Moving on from Muthaa, I'd like to apologise for not being as involved in this game as I would like to be. The fact is, I've been bored by this game, and it's been a struggle to maintain interest in it. During the existence of this game, I've been involved in modding my first game, which has taken up more of my attention. In addition, I was involved in another, more interesting game that has since finished, in which I was playing scum and thus has more of an interest in playing it. this game has been neglected. I'm sorry, it's just been a dull game where I've been a vanilla townie and not put the effort into it I should have. But anyway, appeals to emotion aside, let's take a look at the scum lynches:

Vote Count 19:

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

As of Post 315, a lynch has been reached!

bv310

(6) - Chevre, Hitogoroshi,

DizzyIzzyB13

,

mothrax

,

havingfitz

, Starbuck

Chevre

(2) - bv310, Moospiker

havingfitz

(1) - inHimshallibe

Not Voting (1) -

Muthaa

bv310 was lynched on Day Two. He was

Mafia

!

Flavor to come later.

Notes:

- It is now Night Two. The deadline for the end of Night Two will be Tuesday, August 3, 2pm PST.

Vote Count 27:

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

As of Post 400, a lynch has been reached!

Muthaa (4) - havingfitz, Nexus. mothrax, DizzyIzzyB13
DizzyIzzyB13 (1) - inHimshallibe

Not Voting (1) -

Muthaa

Muthaa was lynched on Day Four. He was

Mafia

!

Notes:

- It is now Night Four. The deadline for the end of Night Two will be Monday, August 30, 2pm PST.

There are three people who were involved in both sets of scum lynches. havingfitz has flipped town. The others are myself and mothrax. In addition, the Chevre/Nexus role was involved in both of them. Aside from those votes, two things stand out - one, that Muthaa was not voting at all when either of these lynches went through and two, that inHimshallibe was voting for someone on his own for both of them. Think about that. Of the people who are currently alive only inHimshallibe hasn't been voting for scum on either of our successful lynches.

Interestingly, the only time Muthaa was voting at the end of a day was on Day Three, when Starbuck was lynched thanks to my accidental hammer. Where was inHimshallibe at this point?

vote: Muthaa

for never voting.

Quite the coincidence that around the time Muthaa was making the only votes he bothered to make out of RVS, inHimshallibe was highlighting his lack of voting.

Top scum candidates: Chevre, Sens, Meh, Muthaa

Chevre for carrying on about the mass-claim which actually outed our remaining mason, andth which was supposed to hinge on a counterclaim... Yeah.

Sens and Meh for some really bad lurking. Sens pop-in vote of Hito looks especially bad. He is my choice behind Chevre.

Muthaa for some poor self-defense early in Day 1, and he seems to be intentionally obtuse Day 2.

Slightly earlier than that, inHimshallibe posted a list of scum suspects, which included Muthaa tacked on the end with a relatively weak reasoning. That's pretty much the extent of his interaction with Muthaa - all in all, it consists of little more than gentle distancing that would certainly not be inconsistent with his being scum. There's also a Muthaa post that points this way:

Well whats been said about starbuck surely makes her seem like scum, though it's still a little too fresh to decide, so before deciding I'm going to ISO Starbuck (and probably inhim while I'm at it) and check out the defense.

Muthaa mentions a vague suspicion of inHimshallibe here, yet never follows up on it and hadn't mentioned it at all prior to that point. It reads to me like a throwaway mention of a fellow scum designed to be used later as evidence of distance between them. Then, of course, you look at inHimshallibe's interactions with bv310, the other confirmed scum. There, he's much more attacking, including making this statement:

bv310 = scum.

Bank on it for the parrot of Moospiker.

Curiously, he voted for him in his next post, and a couple of posts (roughly 3 days) after that, he moved off voting him for SensFan. His only other interaction with bv310 came a few days before he ended up voting for him, in teh form of this:

Fair enough, but I still think that in this case it's more of a "scum-seizing-an-opportunity-to-distract-everyone-else-from-scumhunting" sort of deal.

Well, this isn't how I meant my reasoning. And I'm not liking your posts so much of late, bv.

I meant that by bringing the massclaim up so much, it swayed our remaining mason's decision to reveal himself early.

In this case, I think we have another instance of clear distancing - he has voted for both scum without any real conviction - despite the strong, certain statement that bv310 is scum, he moved his vote off him very easily and failed to rejoin the wagon, and his Muthaa vote occurred at a time when Muthaa wasn't a focus of attention and coincided with a distinct change in the way Muthaa was treating his vote, the subject of inHimshallibe's vote against him. There's certainly a case here that he's distanced himself from both of the confirmed scum, without going as far as to bus them completely.

Then look at his other play. He's moved his votes around quite easily and with little explanation. Whilst that's not exactly damning (I freely admit that I've done the same thing a few times in this game, for example, and it's common in bored, uninterested townies), it is something that can be considered in the context of his other behaviours. He's posted very little (less than I have, even), and hasn't done much other than throw around statements that he hasn't done much to back up, then has turned around and tried to use similar arguments that could be made against him in order to push lynches on easy targets (i.e. me). I think there's a good chance inHimshallibe is the final scum.

vote: inHimshallibe

. I don't think there's any point going with a no lynch today - I don't want us to get into a Happily Ever After scenario, and rules of the game do not say that the scum has to perform a kill. So... let's just get it over and done with.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I don't understand why Dizzy would be against a no-lynch.

Why are you against a no-lynch?

Also, your hammer of Starbuck was a pretty epic fail. Why didn't you reread your post before posting it? /o\

Why are you for a no lynch? A no lynch offers no benefit for either side. The mafia role PM does not state that mafia must kill. One of the rules of the game requires that players play to their win condition. Given this, logic would dictate that if we no lynch, then scum will no kill, leaving us in the exact same situation tomorrow. I don't see the point of dargging the game out until we might end up in a "Happily ever after" scenario where nobody wins. I would like to win. Therefore I propose we lynch scum. Unless the scum is stupid, which inHimshallibe certainly is not, there's no way in hell we'd end up with the situation you want.

Also, how often do you reread posts you've just typed out on internet forums? I don't tend to. I scanned it for typos and posted it. It's an accident that happens. Meh.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I think there's a good chance inHimshallibe is the final scum.

These are scumwords, people. A good chance? And yet you still vote me. Feh.

It's become clear to me Dizzy doesn't want a No Lynch because she isn't comfortable with

any

of her endgame scenarios. In fact, her best bet was to probably kill me Tonight.

Pro-Town Dizzy would be all for increasing the chances of lynching scum, IE a no lynch.

Fraudulent and irrational logic noted.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

We have all of this game day. Why isn't that enough? You have three people to choose from. You will most likely have three to choose from tomorrow. I'm all for making well-reasoned decisions to ensure scum is lynched, but I'm also not a fan of the pointless meandering and indecisiveness that plagues losing towns.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Yes. I have had a strong townread on that slot since I replaced in and Nexus's play strikes me as town as well.
I am still not sure between you and dizzy, obv dizzy is a little scummier on my dar atm, but I see her points about nolynch. Smart =/= town however. I still dislike how quickly the counterwagon rose on OF D1 and

the fact that she and bv were pretty buddy buddy strikes me as odd

...

Where the hell have you conjoured this idea from?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Just posting to say that I'm kinda sick at the moment, so I might not be particularly engaged with the game for a few days. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Going back to where I was yesterday...

vote: inHimshallibe

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Going back to where I was yesterday...

vote: inHimshallibe

vote: DizzyIzzyB13

This absolutely seals the deal for me. There's no concern for the gamestate here. Just drop a vote and leave, it's one of the most textbook scum moves in LyLo.

mothrax, the fact that you came out thinking about your decision tells me you're town, along with the other reasons I've found before. Nexus is now confirmed Town because of the No-Hammer.

Nothing has changed since yesterday. Why should my vote suddenly move to one of the other two when you're still scum?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I explained why I voted for inHimshallibe, so don't act like I came in, typed that I voted for him and said nothing as to why.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

What else do you want me to do, beyond stop voting for the scum?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

What else do you want me to do, beyond stop voting for the scum?

LOL this is as close to an admission as you'll get, mothrax.

Why would Izzy need to prove anything to me if she thinks I'm scum?

That wasn't aimed at you, thanks.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Actually, you posted while I was posting, dude. Twist stuff all you want, it just makes you look more like scum.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Who do you think? There's only one person who isn't voting for the scum and isn't scum (Nexus).