Open 209: The Invasion of Liten (Game Over)

[Slaxx]

Well Puli, first of all, scum jump on scummy things just like townies do. Thats how scum force MLs. I guess it is just the way I argue. But you have yet to really do much besides continue to vote sniper and go back and forth with me, which I think is a good reason for suspicion. Last game you kind of held back on reads too, which was suspicious, so I tried to force the ML.

I don't feel you're offering as much content in this game as in Jekyll.

And the Science game though, I felt you were kind of obvious and you insisted multiple times as a defense "you knew you were blue". Not feeling that this time.

You're somewhere in between.

I never said anything about that game (or rather intended to), I was talking about the one with you and flare, sorry. The Science one where you and him were maf. It was short and I decided to read it to get a better feel for your scum meta.

[Slaxx]

Interesting. Lynching correctly (rebel) would leave us in mylo tomorrow. Not cool. I agree, we should try to find the other faction.

unvote

[Slaxx]

Deathnote, you, like Pulindar, need to give some additional reads.

My case is on mainly Haylen and not you.

[Slaxx]

Sorry for lack of contribution. Currently getting hammered by all my classes. However I think Its calmed down now so I will reread the whole thread and see what I am missing. My pre-read FoSs are SPS/Al for a scumtean (I will explain why) and Nikanor/Pulindar or Deathnote for the other one. I think I've kind of went over that.

[Slaxx]

I've been reading through the thread, and I imagined what it would be like if Sniper came in and gave irrefutable logic and reads as to who the last 3 scum are. I imagined the reactions of everybody, and laughed out loud.

Just thought I'd share.

[Slaxx]

On all this gameplay mechanic: If we can lynch one scum on the opposing side today, there's a decent chance they will cross kill tonight and hit another scum, although they have sucked so far if this is what they are aiming for. If they hit one, it leaves 4:1, giving town a mislynch. I think this is probably the most plausible optimistic outcome.

[Slaxx]

So I read the thread over, and I'm still debating stuff. No one said this was going to be easy. I'll prolly reread it a few more times tomorrow and start taking notes. Prepare for the ultimate post.

inb4 i get sidetracked and post small blurb

[Slaxx]

Okay, I'm going to spend my botany class looking through this thread instead. On Puli's post: This is why its a little less risky to try to lynch Nik's partner. I think we have a better shot at it because we do stuff we're used to: looking for connections.

[Slaxx]

Posts 0-300

Haylen/Deathnote

In

Post 34

Nikanor actively advocates a Haylen Wagon. I don't feel that Nik would advocate a bandwagon on a scumbuddy that early in the game, although it is possible.

So why don't you jump on the Haylen wagon, Slaxx?

I must agree with you here. Go for it.

Defeatism won't save you, scum.

horrordude, why did you not respond to what I said about you?

Posts 145

and

146

kind of make my gut cringe. She doesn't even have a general clue? Come on, we're over a 100 posts into the game and not even a inkling of a suspicion. However, in

Post 147

, she votes Nikanor, confirmed scum.

Pulindar

Post 19

still reads as an attempt at subtle distancing.

BTW St. Kerrigan I know we talked about it before, but I'd still really like to be a rebel with Haylen. I know you can still switch things around and make that work.

In

Post 43

Pulindar knocks Haylen from L-2 to L-3. Haylen is one of my scum reads and we've already discussed concerns of a Puli/Haylen pair, so this worries me a little bit. However, I don't think its enough to act on. We shall keep reading ^_^.

Haylen's at L-2

Unvote

Strike that, Haylen is at L-3

I don't want some Sniper coming in and Steam Powering the Hammer down.

Vote Nikanor

because she's trying to buddy up with me by saying I'm town

Ah, screw it I don't think Nika is scum yet

Unvote

I'll

vote Slaxx

He wants to have a bandwagon go, I started one I can start another on him and we can have two competing ones rolling.

Post 80

is giving me a town vibe, though I don't know why.

@ Nika: Because you're the person I'm most concerned with responding to.

Post 92

.

Why were you most concerned about answering to Nikanor?

In retrospect, the buddying does seem a little excessive.

Post 153

I have mixed feelings about. Everyone knows I hate his defenses on Haylen xD. So I'll just go ahead and point out that I still dont like how is explanation is he likes the lightheartedness of her posting. To me, someone who is trying to hunt scum, its annoying. And I feel like town Puli would feel the same way, but I don't think I've played with him quite enough (nearly enough, really)to say for sure.

Post 207

makes me think Puli is either keeps slipping on the rebel thing, he is WIFOMing big time, or he's just a really unlucky guy.

Since it is needed
[joke="Having fun with Nika"]
Nika I think that this post points out that you are in a powerful position. This flavor shows, that as Chief of Security you obviously have access to many varieties and classes of weapons. Some of those same weapons were used by the rebels. Are you affiliated with the Rebels Nika? I ask you this with trepidation, but it is a question that must be posed.[/joke] (Nikanor flipped Rebel)
In

Post 231

Nikanor randomly expresses concern two votes on Pulindar.

Post 299

makes my gut cringe too. Instead of just saying the defense was strong, he had to add like 3 qualifiers onto the post.

That defense just seems a bit strong to me. I see Sniper as a possibility, I don't see the need to defend someone so much. But I have no other reason to suspect Nika, which means that even if sniper flipped scum I would probably be unsure and would not be confident in my suspicion of Nika. I'd probably just go from town read to null read. And that's only IF Sniper flips scum.

Aldusskel

Al makes his first appearance in

Post 73

of the game. He just answers the RQS and jumps on a bandwagon. This doesn't sit well with me.

I get town vibes from his

Post 171

. I wish he would have voted someone else, however. HE seemed to have a stronger read on Puli than Haylen, but either way I don't find this highly suspicious.

Town vibes from

Post 225

and

226

.

SFG

In post

149

SFG gives some good and not so good reads, the one problem I had with them I had already stated. However, her actions following that I have been content with. I feel SFG is town, but I won't be paying any less attention to her as I continue through my reading of the thread.

I'm kind of lazy, do you mind giving me a quick rundown of SPS's meta?

SPS

Post 100

is where SPS appears on the scene. He kind of makes a reach at Nicodemus and the post is overall scummy, as Nic pointed out. However, Nic's same post at that time made me think NIC was scum, just his reaction to the vote. I don't know what to make of this occurrence, but SPS's reason feels forced. By

Post 164

he claims to still not have reads on anybody when many people have sorted out all theirs.
Its 250 posts into the game, and SPS is still commenting on game play mechanics and only has one scum read.

Post 262

seems a little timid. He also passes off on his meta.

Note: Horrordude and Sniper aren't on the list, but please do take note of their lurking.

Questions for anyone I have are italicized within their Read.

Right now, SPS is Arkon along with an unknown person. Puli is the other Rebel.

[Slaxx]

Additional Notes: There is 1 broken quote in the Puli section.

Haylen/SPS scumpair is possible.

[Slaxx]

Ugh I can't possibly do that for another 800 posts. Maybe later. Anyway, town reads are Aldusskel and SFG. Neutral Reads are Furry and Sniper. Scum Reads are SPS, Puli, and Haylen. Think I got everyone.

I'll look for some connections between Haylen and SPS later.

Puli is my strongest scum read, but I don't want to vote because it seems we're going to try to lynch an Arkon. The thing is, I think Puli is scum/was scum with Nikanor. However, SPS's defense yesterday of Nik makes me not think that. I want everyone's opinions. Motivation for SPS to not lynch Nikanor either means it was his scumbuddy, he honestly thought Nik was town, or he was trying to push a lynch on someone of the opposite scumteam.

Help me guys =(

[Slaxx]

Could you give me a post number Puli?

[Slaxx]

For that first quote. Apologies for ambiguity.

[Slaxx]

Deathnote, give me your opinion on Puli and SPS.

[Slaxx]

Someone say something?

[Slaxx]

Nah i need Deathnote's opinions and actually Al's opinions before I go any further.

[Slaxx]

Oh and as a heads up finals week is in like 3 weeks, so i might disappear off the face of the Earth that week.

[Slaxx]

I want to hear what other people have to say, quite frankly. I'm pretty sure me and you have done all the back and forth we're going to do thats productive, unless by some miracle i find something conclusive, which I won't either in favor of Puli-town or Puli-scum. There are still 3 scum out there and they cant hide forever. I want someone whose not SPS and SFG to comment on what they think of my analysis, and also our back and forth's.

I still need a suspect list from deathnote.

Also feel free to ask me stuff too, no one has questioned my thought processes in a while. It helps me find flaws within my own arguments.

[Slaxx]

You're missing a few scum in there.

[Slaxx]

No Puli, I have a case on you. That is all. Its not pressure if no one agrees.

Deathnote, many of times I have tried to get people to interrogate me and question my thought process. Consistently, throughout the whole game. Just because I'm doing some indepth scumhunting doesn't mean I'm trying to run the thread.

Deathnote, give town your other scum reads, since you have failed to do so multiple times.

[Slaxx]

Nah, I didn't always think you were scum Puli. I'm pretty sure I didn't suspect you until mid day 2. Maybe even later.

[Slaxx]

Thats 1 scum read. There are 3 in the game. Try again.

[Slaxx]

vote deathnote

Get more.

[Slaxx]

Idk if that was noob town or noob scum, but its funny either way.

[Slaxx]

SPS if you are so avid on lynching him, why aren't you voting him?

Furry, opinions on Deathnote?

Al, opinions on Deathnote?

SFG, opinions on Deathnote?

[Slaxx]

Gah more votes on Deathnote.

[Slaxx]

SFG...you think puli is town? lmao.

[Slaxx]

Didnt you say you thought I was scum with Furry? When are you gonna post a case so I can defend myself?

[Slaxx]

Well not in this case. I'm not overeager scum, I'm town and I've had a bad read on your slot forever. I'm tired of this slot slipping by with this kind of scum play. I don't know what SFG is seeing in you, but this is one of her reads I disagree with. (Along with her read on me, if she thinks I'm scum with Furry, of course).

[Slaxx]

Yes, it does.

I'm just going to be totally open here and say that people probably trust you the most and your opinions and reads, for good reason too (See: Nik) but if its too late in the day i might not have adequate time to defend myself.

[Slaxx]

Sorry to report i'll also be flaky the next few days. RL stuff. Not going to need a replacement but don't expect me to be quite as active.

[Slaxx]

Deathnote, whats your opinion of SFG and why?

[Slaxx]

Where did the SPS town read come from?

I still wish you'd post your case on me soon.

[Slaxx]

It shows your not reading the thread.

[Slaxx]

I think i said that also, SFG.

[Slaxx]

kk i'll iso myself later.

[Slaxx]

I am pretty sure Ald is town, i wanna see his post soon to be for sure. Don't agree with the Puli town at all though.

[Slaxx]

Actually I was having the same problem Furry.

SFG would be my only real guess, but I think SFG is town and she voted him recently which makes me doubt it even more.

[Slaxx]

Pulindar's lack of vote and lack of reads doesn't worry anyone but me?

[Slaxx]

Why?

[Slaxx]

Ever member of this community should stae Disagree or Agree with these statements, and give brief descroptions as to why. No maybes.

Sniper or Pulindar is/was scum with Nikanor.

Deathnote is part of mafia B.

Deathnote is not Nikanor's partner.

Pulidar is part of mafia B.

It is possible for Pulindar and Deathnote to be partners.

I think I've summed up my case based upon these questions well, but I want to see what EVERYONE has to say about them. Obviously Puli and Deathnote will disagree. Btw, I'm not trying to stab at Puli or Deathnote, I'm trying to make everyone give straightforward direct answers. Everyone should answer these.

[Slaxx]

First of all, Puli, stop using the Jekyll game as your crutch. Anyone who actually reads that game will see a difference in my Meta. Regardless anyway, my meta is changing because I'm still a fairly new player.

Show me similarities between those questions and the game I was scum in. I said I wasn't trying to lead an attack on you, I said that I was trying to bring other people out of the shadows and forcing them to take a stance on our back and forths and on the Haylen wagon. That is not scummy and not anything like I did in Jekyll mafia.

I'll answer more in a little bit, my original computer is fried so I have to share with parents or be on campus to be productive with this.

[Slaxx]

Ugh puli you picked the wrong time to rebuttal but I'm glad you finally did. I'm feeling a little bit better about you now. This is more like town you...I feel like it took longer than last game. Maybe its because we were later in the day. Anyway, I get bad vibes from Sniper's last post. Especially the part with the "win condition thing". He's finally putting up almost passable arguments but they are incredibly weak. I think it might be more possible than Puli Nik....But that one post with all the qualifiers is just kiling my gut from Puli.

SFG...How is Puli so obviously town?

I'm not really getting SFG's NK analysis. I mean, scum could easily kind of target one or two people they think is scum during the day, then turn around and kill another one of their suspects at night to not be obvious. However, I saw her post on a topic in the forum so I think she legitemately feels it is a valuable source, so idk.

[Slaxx]

So my laptop should be back mid next week or by next weekend, until then content will be more based on recent stuff. I can't do my big read throughs because the computer locks down with more than one or two windows up, and I'm not on campus long enough to use one of their computers to get a nice long one done.

Puli, what do you think about SFG's NK stuff?

[Slaxx]

I don't like how many people are clearing SFG. Its making me second guess things to be honest. Are people seriously leaving her (and apparently a few people might be doing this to me too) out of their reads, or just completely nulling out any possibility of her being scum? Keep in mind this is a game where both sides have to scumhunt. She has a very good position in the game and could probably afford to bus her partner if she was scum at this point in time. I'm not saying she is scum, I'm telling you guys to keep all options open. No tunneling, its bad for town.

I can see an Al/Haylen scumpair...I might have mentioned it as a thought earlier, idk.

Town Read is SFG....No, she's not clear, shes just a town read.
Teetering Reads: SPS/Furry (Slight Town)/ and Puli.
The active lurking from DN/Al and Sniper's last post make me think these are our remaining scum. I realize my opinion's changed a lot today.

[Slaxx]

I'm feelin better and better about Sniper being scum A after a reread.

The 1 kill...His last post...Puli's looking more town...IT makes sense.

[Slaxx]

Oh we simo-posted. Cool. Sorry if youve already posted a link, but would you mind supplying one?

[Slaxx]

Ah tyvm.

[Slaxx]

...Nice catch with the Scum A thing with Furry...Will be interested in hearing an explanation.

[Slaxx]

Random Slaxx Fact: This is the longest game I've played in.

[Slaxx]

Pages...This is like maybe the 8th game or so I have been in.. I've done 3 newbie games, 1 other fire and Ice game, and 2 mini theme games. This is probably one of the funnest too, although Jekyll Mafia was really cool.

[Slaxx]

So why are Puli and Haylen not scum again?

[Slaxx]

SFG's defense of Puli worries me a bit.

[Slaxx]

I'm still trying to make sense of the NK.

Why are people voting Sniper...Furry thinks Puli is scum A, right? Shouldn't we be lynching B? Same wit Al, except idk what his thing is with Sniper.

[Slaxx]

unvote

No. Not yet.

[Slaxx]

Ive got too much to do to reread over the thread before deadline.

I might as well try

Request Deadline Extension

since the majority of players have been very active and our mod has made it harder on us with the lack of vote counts and the like.

[Slaxx]

If you had Slaxx and SFG behind you then you'd have a solid hold over the Town, more than if you had any other 2 players behind you.

Ok, I can see that. What I don't see is how that is an argument that I'm scum. No matter my alignment I want to convince people I am town, correct? If I'm scum I do it to hide and survive. If I'm town I do it to survive and not cause a mislynch.

My point is that you

could

be scum buddying up to key town members (or even opposite scum team members, hypothetically) to gain a hold over the Town.

I'd be willing to change my vote to Sniper, but I'm not convinced anyone else has the guts to vote for him too.

vote Sniper

I think it would take more guts to risk a townie/Scum B choice than a Sniper choice. If Sniper flips town, one of SPS or Puli is the other Rebel, IMO. But my intuition says Sniper, I feel Puli has gotten more town and besides right before Nik's lynch I have no reason to think SPS was his partner either.

[Slaxx]

Thank You

Will catch up. I uh, HAD to go fishing today, so you know.

Seriously though, Late this week I'll be freeee. I'm in the same

[Slaxx]

-same boat as SFG with school and stuff. Sorry I'm realy tired lol.

[Slaxx]

No one unvote. We're being duped.

[Slaxx]

SPS. What happened last time he voted himself when there were votes on him?

[Slaxx]

unvote

We have a week. Lets hunt for B a bit more.

[Slaxx]

Puli was threatening to hammer, Furry.

[Slaxx]

Sniper was my top pick when I only had a day left to decide. However, I have more time now, so I get to review more.

[Slaxx]

I already said Puli was threatening to hammer, correct? There is a difference between saying " keep the bandwagon as it is" and "hammer and end the day". The bottom line is Puli was going to end the day premauterley and I'm not ready to end the day yet.

[Slaxx]

You guys are trying to associate his replacement with my unvote, or at least I think thats what you're doing. Its not his replacement, it was Puli debating whether to hammer or not. I took my vote off him so he couldn't do that. If I'm still uncomfortable with a scum B lynch by the next deadline, back to Sniper shall my vote go.

[Slaxx]

I think its just that time of the semester. I'm slowly swimming back up to the surface of my homework.

[Slaxx]

For now I don't mind an Ald BW. Still need to reread -_-

vote Ald

[Slaxx]

I thought you copied and pasted everything onto word?

[Slaxx]

SPS, you thought Nik was town =P

[Slaxx]

And if you're not against the lynch, why aren't you voting?

[Slaxx]

Uh, who cleared Furry?

[Slaxx]

Bleh I kinda was hoping for a modkill.

Is that bad?

Anyway it will be nice to have a fresh perspective on the game. Speaking of which, does Deathnote still exist?

[Slaxx]

lmfao i thought i was modkilled for asking about a modkill and almost flipped shit. way too much effort put into this game. Btw idk if its time yet, but

request prod on Deathnote

as well as an informal "remind slaxx to get his hw done so he can focus on this game" are both in order.

If you look on the top of the page, you'll see that I've given a prod to both Deathnote and Pulindar.

Also, get your homework done.

[Slaxx]

SFG, he has been tunneling on scum A almost completely. This makes him a good scum B candidate, tbh.

[Slaxx]

You seem awfully apt to come to his defense. Let him respond to the accusations.

[Slaxx]

A. Puli's partner persuades him out of it
B. Puli is using Sniper as a crutch (what an easy target, right) and going after other people at night to cast suspicion away from himself


...SFG, you really seem to be playing the NK analysis up.

Behavior>NK

[Slaxx]

SFG is a general consensus of town view, which means nothing really, but at the same time everything. Right now the only way I could see SFG as scum was if Puli flipped scum B. Maybe Haylen, but I think Haylen/Puli is more possible than Haylen/SFG.

[Slaxx]

No, it doesn't. Because the job of scum is to deceive, even with their NKs. We can't ranke them over behavior, or on the same level. To me, it makes sense for Puli to be tunneling on Sniper as an easy target and then knocking out his actual suspects during the night. It seems more of optimal scum play than actually killing him during the night then having to find a new tunneling target.

[Slaxx]

unvote

I want to hear Furry's opinion on all this, although he/she might have already expressed it before.

We've got 5 days.

[Slaxx]

Bleh. See, I think due to those reasons we should lynch Puli. He could be on either side. Its like a gold mine of new info and connections if he flips B.

[Slaxx]

Why is SPS scum?

What do you think of Puli and SFG?

Do you agree or disagree with Furry's sentiments on Puli?

If none of these are scum B above, who is scum B?

[Slaxx]

I'll get to puli's monstrosity when I can.

Deathnote...*facepalm

[Slaxx]

Ikr. Two weeks of classes left for me. If I'm still around I'll be able to put a lot more effort into this.

What does Ald think of SPS and vice versa?

[Slaxx]

any particular reasoning?

[Slaxx]

I would agree that Deathnote's playstyle is...frustrating.

[Slaxx]

Right now I'm fighting to keep a scholarship, so I understand. School>Mafia. Sometimes.

[Slaxx]

Interesting how Deathnote votes Al when there are competing wagons on Puli and Al.

Why Al>Puli?

[Slaxx]

That's pretty convincing stuff. I too was suspicious of Al/SPS, which is why I asked that question a while back. Neither of them justified their town reads too well.

[Slaxx]

I'm starting to think both. I already made my case on Puli for scum A quite a long time ago. The only other real possible partner is SPS or Reconer. SFG brings up good points in her points against Al. He has been hypocritical, pushed for policy lynches, pushed on now what I'm beginning to think you guys were right about as a fat mislynch target (Deathnote). However, Im torn in between who we should lynch today. I am okay with SPS, Ald, and Puli, in order from least to greatest.

[Slaxx]

Aldul is my second choice, as I said in my post. I would rather lynch Puli because I think he could be either scum, but am pretty sure he is scum. Ald is choice 2 because I am pretty sure he is scum B, and SPS is 3 because I think he can be either but not as much as the first two. SPS did some defending of Nik if you look back. I thought I was on Puli for some reason.

Furry, were you the one who said lynching scum A was better?

[Slaxx]

Honestly I wouldnt out town reads. Especially day before possible mylo/lylo. You'll start WIFOMing the shit out of yourself if you wind up being in that situation.

[Slaxx]

Al, I dont have the time nor the energy to make a full written up case on you. Maybe you consider a cop out, IDC. I just don't.

Anyway, apparently Furry is going to have an awesome revelation or something after I vote, and I'm pretty eager to see such a revelation.

vote Pulindar

[Slaxx]

Yeah pretty much, except notice my vote isnt on you, its on Pulindar, so why do you even care? I HAVE written up a case on Pulindar and I HAVE express concern on him for a while (although there was a point where I thought he might be town again, but it didnt last long). Overreaction much?

[Slaxx]

I do too, I'm curious about his revelation.


Idk why he wanted me to vote though. It shouldnt make a difference.

[Slaxx]

I'm experienceing similiar frustrations. I'm just going to throw this out to Furry. Have you considered SFG/Puli at all for B?

[Slaxx]

Puli is a good lynch. He works very well for either scum team. I'm fairly confident in his lynch.

If he flips B, SFG and Deathnote are likely partners.
If he flips A, then town has more work to do tomorrow.

[Slaxx]

Damn. I saw that coming after SFG flipped Town.

[Slaxx]

Gimme those quick topics. Lol.

[Slaxx]

LMFAO! I thought Furry was with Puli and Shovel was with Nik...LMFAO

[Slaxx]

SPS's eagerness should have been a hint. Furry played good scum.

[Slaxx]

This was my funnest game so far, I thank you all.

[Slaxx]

To me, the games with no investigative roles are funnest. This is why I love these setups.