Open 203: C/9 Mafia Wins!

[danakillsu]

Sorry for not posting yet. I'll read through and be back shortly.

vote:Gayle

for showing up in another game with me.

[danakillsu]

Yeah, the post that reeks scum to me right now is post 7. I know everyone has drawn some battle lines and stuff, but I don't really buy into any of it. I don't think anything of value has really happened since the RVS.

unvote vote: wdjat

[danakillsu]

Elaborate

Alright, and btw, I'm a guy, which I have to point out in every game despite the fact that my gender is below my avatar. I think it's very scummy to immediately say the RVS is over and to back it up by saying that the RVS is useless to town. I don't believe it's useless to town at all.

Really, in the last 2 pages of posts, nothing is giving you any tells? Perhaps you should reread.

Yes, really, and I don't need to reread. I think what has happened recently has been mostly people teaming up against others without any proof.

[danakillsu]

Why didn't you mention this then, it is scummy to try and get someone lynched without evidence?

I thought it was understood without explicitly being said. The post I mentioned almost seems self-explanatory in its scumminess. I completely agree with and endorse Max's overall reads of people thus far.

[danakillsu]

Oh boy you're one of "those" people. RVS is random. I mean, it's in the name. When you try to discuss those votes and get crap like this defense. And all these benefits of RVS you're talking about sound suspiciously like discussion, something that questions are going to spark. Like the way you're talking about RVS as opposed to RQS, you'd think that we put random crap in bold letters and then magically we are playing mafia. No, we do have to actually discuss things at some point. And what are we going to discuss based on the content of the following posts?

Dude. RANDOM voting stage. It is for shits and giggles. That's why it's worthless.

These two posts show your real intent in post 7.

Elaborate

Fine. You and Max seem to mostly agree against kyle99 and Gayle, who also mostly agree with each other. There's been a lot of trying to pick apart useless statements, and not a lot of actually bringing up anything to do with scumminess.

[danakillsu]

You mean the votes on Max from Gayle and kyle99 and my vote on Gayle are just there for funsies? You don't think there's suspicions about alignment based on this argument?
_________________

You guys might have some reason that only you know for drawing battle lines, but I don't see any of them. That's what I'm saying. Now let's stop discussing what I don't see as tells and start trying to actually find someone scummy.

Have you considered the post in the context of posts 5 and 6? You know, the jokes?

Absolutely. But I see you true motives in post 7 from the posts I quoted earlier. You weren't just saying "let's stop joking", you were saying "let's leave the RVS".

[danakillsu]

Why is pressuring you for your reads not searching for scummy? As it were I find that you trying to diverge away from that point is suspicious, as it can be a scumtell, you might be avoiding the situation because its your partner under suspicion. Just because you might not see a scumtell in it doesn't mean others might not, and trying to just get away from it doesn't look good.

You've got to be kidding me. wdjat was NOT pressuring me for reads on other people, he was pressuring me for why I was voting for him. This looks like a bad excuse to continue exactly what I just said was pointless. I'm going to leave wdjat for now, though, because I'm really annoyed by JacobSavage's lack of involvement here.

unvote vote:JacobSavage

[danakillsu]

Well, look. Suddenly "reads" changes to "read". And you call it the same thing. Pressuring for a single read on him is not the same as pressuring for all of my reads. I already have explained my reason for voting for him originally. Stop making such a big deal out of this. You're making yourself look scummy by trying to make me the focus of everyone's attention (not that I mind that so much, I have nothing to hide).

[danakillsu]

ok, JacobSavage is obviously going to actually play this game now.

unvote vote: wdjat

your pressuring of me is ridiculous and you're not helping town at all. A lynch of you would also help prove my alignment, I believe.

[danakillsu]

Dana's OMGUS vote from 156 is duly noted. FoS for that.

Perhaps if you read the thread you would discover that I voted wdjat before he voted me.

[danakillsu]

No, it's not. The only reason I left wdjat to vote someone else was that I thought he should be pressured to post. The first and prominent scum-read I got was wdjat. Your continual accusations without basis earn a big fat

HoS

from me. His vote on me was OMGUS, if anything.
@all
what impression do you get? does it look like OMGUS for me to return my vote to wdjat?

[danakillsu]

Danakillsu's OMGUS on wdjat was terrible

Ok, why was it OMGUS and not a return to a person I already found scummy, and why was it "terrible" OMGUS? Just because I found his pressuring me to be ridiculous doesn't mean that that is why I voted for him. I voted for him because I didn't want to vote for JS anymore, and I had already found him the scummiest.

I was about to jump on the wdjat wagon but some sketchy people have beat me to it. Hard to say why, but 149 really rubs me the wrong way, as does much of the tone wdjat has taken here. Questions like "what would my flipping scum reveal to you?" are really not helpful. Call it "defense by diversion" if you will.

Does anyone else notice how scummy this is?
@Lowell
If wdjat is the best vote, should your read of the other people on his wagon keep you from voting for him? This seems like blatant self-preservation rather than anything that will help town in the long run. Obviously, if your town you want to not appear scummy, but at some point, you're going to have to vote for someone based on how scummy they are, not based on who's on their wagon.

[danakillsu]

ok, an iso-read of lowell shows me that he is more scummy than wdjat. He has told people to stop voting for him because he "always gets lynched" and his vote on me is obviously just an attempt to get someone else lynched. My vote can leave wdjat because there's no way now that they're both scum.

vote: lowell

[danakillsu]

Uhm, did you earnestly just put Lowell at L-1, dana? I mean it's OK if you think he's scum but that's a bit drastic. Deadline's only on Saturday - no need to rush things

So, basically, you didn't want me to put him at L-1, but it's OK? What?

[danakillsu]

my vote is on two people, too.
@all (and I want everyone to answer)
do you believe Lowell's claim?

I, for one, do not.

[danakillsu]

I do enough to not risk lynching a cop on day 1.

Actually, yeah. That's true. Let's give him a chance to tell us what he finds in the night.

unvote

And I think I shouldn't vote for wdjat, because I don't believe lowell's claim and I don't think they can both be scum. (THIS IS WHY I DROPPED MY CASE ON WDJAT IN THE FIRST PLACE).

vote: kyle99

in hopes that he will start contributing to this game.

Vote Count-Sho
Lowell-kunkstar7, kyle99, danakillsu
danakillsu-Lowell, wdjat
Kunkstar-Gayle, Gheb
Wdjat-Tatetothetot
Kyle99-Max, danakillsu

[danakillsu]

So you don't believe the claim, but you unvote and believe that those who belive in the claim aren't scum, excluding the possibility of wdjat being scum, after he pressuring you. Plus you ignored his acusations in his post, made 1 hour before yours.

This makes absolutely no sense! I didn't vote for wdjat because I still believe that lowell is scum, and I don't believe they can both be scum. I didn't vote for lowell because he might actually be a cop, and I want to give him a chance to investigate. What about that is hard to understand, in words that I can understand?

[danakillsu]

@fifi
You haven't answered my question.
And those bolded quotes...
If you're trying to say what I think you're trying to say...
you're not too smart or your trying to ignore the obvious truth.
Just because I believe someone is scum doesn't mean they can't be a cop. On the off-chance that he is a cop, I don't want to be responsible for his lynch.

[danakillsu]

He was scum so this new player is scum... Where has my logic gone wrong? I'm not voting him because he lurked, I'm voting him because he's scum.

No, you're right. I still think kyle is somewhat scummy. However, his non-contribution has been explained, so I'm ready to take my vote off if his replacement can make a good case for himself.

[danakillsu]

Lowell and wdjat can't both be scum because of an obvious buddying move here:

unvote, vote danakillsu. Change of plans, I think some pressure is due here.

The quotes wjat brings up are good, particularly the strange reaction to pressure. I'm also not thrilled with the wjat wagon. It seems like just a lot of people congratulating themselves on their votes. At least wjat looks like he's trying.

Lowell would have to be the worst mafia player in the world to post something like this about his scumbuddy.

[danakillsu]

@ Dana : WIFOM...

Not at ALL. There's just no way someone would draw that much attention to his connection with someone else if they were both scum. I just couldn't imagine someone doing that.

[danakillsu]

All those "ifs" you use in these hypothetical situations are what makes it WIFOM.

What? WIFOM is when you present a situation that could just as easily be the opposite of the way you take it as the way you take it.

[danakillsu]

no, I do not. When I use if, I introduce a situation which I find likely, but not confirmed.

[danakillsu]

@lowell
sure, go ahead and investigate me tonight.

[danakillsu]

I'm still here, so there's no need to replace, but there's not much to comment on. I agree with Max about the kyle wagon, but I'm not going to unvote, because I don't want any pressure taken off of him.

[danakillsu]

No, it's not.

[danakillsu]

kyle's logic is:
This guy isn't making any worthwhile discoveries.
yours is:
This guy never helps town, whether he's town or not.

Your logic suggests that no matter what lowell does, we should lynch him. Kyle's says that Max is a worthwile lynch for now. There's a huge difference.

[danakillsu]

EBWOP:

Post 298 should read:
"hewitt's is:"
instead of "yours is:"

[danakillsu]

If that was my logic I'd still be pushing for a Lowell lynch.

That just means your contradicting yourself. The logic you used in that post still says what I thought is said.

[danakillsu]

Now I'm very confused. Are you still under the impression that I want to lynch Lowell even though he claimed cop?

NO. I'm saying that the logic you used would lead to you lynching lowell under any and all circumstances, but you didn't. That means you contradicted yourself.

[danakillsu]

But you can't explain why?

[danakillsu]

alright, so you started off saying you want to lynch Lowell early on, then vote for him for the same reasons you want him lynched early on. Then, you suddenly change your mind and say that it's not important to lynch him now.

[danakillsu]

So confused. It looked like dana was defending hewitt, but now its an attack?

I think we're all confused here including me. I wasn't ever trying to defend hewitt, but my analysis of his logic may not have been correct. I'm willing to just drop it, as I don't find any huge significance in it, anyway. But I don't see how being wrong about this really makes me scummier.

[danakillsu]

Man, what have you actually held up?
_________________

The fact that kyle99 needs to get involved. It's important that I not try to hold on to weak cases. If I did hold on, I would be scum trying to get a player lynched for no reason other than that they are town.

[danakillsu]

@all
Is kyle at L-2?

[danakillsu]

What exactly makes him a better lynch than someone like hewitt?

That he has no interest in this game so he can't help town.
That hewitt isn't scummy....

[danakillsu]

WHAT? I finally get back and someone's hammered kyle? I didn't really want him lynched, I just wanted major pressure. fifi gets huge scum points.

[danakillsu]

Right, I would go for Cops claiming with guility.
No claim if no guilty.

Is that alright with everyone else?
_________________

? Don't know what this means...
@Lowell
Your results?

[danakillsu]

I'm not going to reveal what I have unless needed. If I had a guilty I'd tell you.

Otherwise I agree with following kunk's lead.

Wow. That's sad.

vote: lowell

What town motivation could a regular cop possibly have for not revealing his results? Answer: NONE.

[danakillsu]

danakillsu wrote:
WHAT? I finally get back and someone's hammered kyle? I didn't really want him lynched, I just wanted major pressure. fifi gets huge scum points.

vote: danakillsu
_________________

In usual wdjat style, he doesn't give any explanation for his vote, nor does he address the main issue of the day.

[danakillsu]

There's no reason for Lowell to reveal his results yet.

Yeah, sure. proving his innocence isn't a reason at all (rolls eyes).
And way to dodge the thrust of my post. You still haven't given a reason for voting for me (other than maybe the fact that I'm not voting for fifi, who I only said got some scum points).

lowell-1- danakillsu
danakillsu-1-Wdjat

[danakillsu]

I think that if lowell wasn't scum, he would have died last night, that's what I think about the night kill.
I didn't want kyle lynched, that's what I think about the lynch.
I think kunk's post was weird, but not necessarily scummy, I think lowell is scum unless proven otherwise, and I think wdjat needs to make a case against me if he's going to vote for me, that's what I think about the players in this game.

[danakillsu]

What are you high? Did you forget day 1?

No and no. What part are you referring to (out of 14 pages)?

[danakillsu]

I know that this is going to sound ridiculous, but I'm not going to be able to post for 8 more days. If that means you need to replace me, do so.

[danakillsu]

Will post soon on any new content.

[danakillsu]

I don't feel like this game needs to be abandoned unless everyone else that still cares leaves. So you could say I'm voting to continue playing this game. To maybe get some discussion going, I'll pile on kunk, too.

vote: kunkstar7

[danakillsu]

Lowell, I know you're on right now, so please post. This game is dying.

[danakillsu]

Anybody against lynching Jacob?

No actually not. I was thinking the same thing. Only scum would want to try such a terrible plan. Why would we lynch someone who is probably town just to have a chance of figuring out the alignment of one person?

unvote vote: Jacob Savage

I would say that kunk is confirmed townie.

[danakillsu]

Yeah, let's lynch Jacob Savage to keep this game alive. Come on, other players, jump on the bandwagon for some real info!

[danakillsu]

If you flip scum then we lynch Lowell, far out I know.

And if he flips town (which I find much more likely) we're back to the same position we're already in. Sounds to me like you're practically suggesting a random lynch, since that lynch would only help us if he was scum (just like a random lynch would).

JacobSavage-3-Kunkstar7,Gayle, danakillsu
ksen-2- JacobSavage, Lowell
danakillsu-1-Wdjat

[danakillsu]

After reading through the full game and reading through his posts in iso, he's easily the scummiest person partaking in this. He's almost never given any justification for the logic behind what he does, and every fourth post or so is a completely unjustified vote on a person he's never seemed to pay any attention to.

Not much of a case you have there. Care to give a couple of examples. It's hard to defend at all against such generalities. I don't see how I "stand out" for that stuff so much. Can we just lynch JS to get this game going? I'm gone over the weekend, and not even a page of material has been posted.

[danakillsu]

I have already explained why I wanted JS lynched.

No actually not. I was thinking the same thing. Only scum would want to try such a terrible plan. Why would we lynch someone who is probably town just to have a chance of figuring out the alignment of one person? unvote vote: Jacob Savage
I would say that kunk is confirmed townie.

And if he flips town (which I find much more likely) we're back to the same position we're already in. Sounds to me like you're practically suggesting a random lynch, since that lynch would only help us if he was scum (just like a random lynch would).

That second quote was directed at JS himself. That's my case on him. So I don't really know why you essentially ask three times in the same post for me to give my reasons for voting for him.

Basically, this is saying that you don't need to give evidence, because you're automatically right about whether any post is scummy.

No. The quote you posted clearly said that I didn't think AT THE TIME OF VOTE that I needed to give evidence. And the reason for that was because I thought the case was OBVIOUS not because I was automatically right or whatever you're saying here.

1. Scumhunting is pointless?
2. You really seem to want JS dead for some reason. Mind elaborating?

1. No. I don't know where you would get that idea.
2. See top of post.

If you had really had nothing to hide, you wouldn't have to say so.

Also, if you didn't mind it, why are you trying to remove yourself from the spotlight?

ORLY? Care to explain that first sentence? I really don't see how my complete lack of anything to hide would keep me from needing to say that I have nothing to hide.
I already said why. It was because that conversation was not helping town, not because I was afraid to keep talking about the subject.

Interesting wording. So you wouldn't have minded lynching Lowell, you just didn't want to be responsible for it if he flips cop?

That's not what I said. I would have minded lynching Lowell because I didn't want to be responsible for it if he flipped cop.

Without you, kyle probably wouldn't have gotten lynched. Don't try to shift your blame.

The first sentence is true. But that doesn't mean the blame didn't fall on fifi. He was the one who actually lynched kyle, which wasn't my intention.
And that leaves nothing, as far as I can tell. Even if your points had been valid (which they weren't), I'm not sure you would have had a great case against me. But at least you got someone to post content.

[danakillsu]

All lynches only help town if the person being hanged is scum. Your... interesting wording on this suggests not that you oppose the idea of Lowell being scum if Jacob's target was scum, but that there's something in it for you if Lowell isn't lynched.

Okay, yeah, so I left out a little bit about chance of being scum and whatnot. But his reason for voting was essentially: we might hit scum, and that will help us.

Just because you feel something is obvious doesn't mean you don't have to give evidence. You know, giving evidence. The thing you never actually did to support that case?

I'm pretty sure I did give evidence, but can't find the case you are referring to. Could you point me to it?

If you have nothing to hide, then why are you denying that you do so vehemently?

Vehemently? Whatever. I don't see where you get that.

It's not that the conversation wasn't helping town, it's that it wasn't helping you.

Your assumption again. You can't prove that. And if you can't prove it, you can't use it in a case.

So, the only reason you minded lynching Lowell is that you didn't want to be responsible for it if he flipped cop. This implies that you wouldn't have minded lynching a cop, but you would have minded being responsible for it. Interesting.

Wow. Nice. Would you like to distinguish between lynching a cop and being responsible for lynching a cop? I think lynching someone and being responsible for it are one and the same, barring special situations where someone on the wagon did not actually want the player lynched.

If you really didn't want kyle lynched, then you would have taken your vote off of him when you saw that he was at L-1.

If you really wanted to make a case, you would read the thread. Mind going back and reading my original post on which you base this part of your case?

First section: You're basically saying "Let's stop scumhunting and start agreeing with me".

Another assumption. You're pretty good at those.

Second section: Because leaving the RVS is totally a bad thing.

It can be a bad thing because scum can be trying to get someone lynched before any good evidence arises.

[danakillsu]

Azelf's case is simply one of repetition. I've shown clearly that he has nothing but assumptions of my motives in certain situations on which to base his argument. And btw, your "vehement" proof is sad. I could show you posts five times more vehement than those. And only your point about the cop thing would make me scum even if it were true, which none of your points are. I'll be V/LA as noted in my sig.

[danakillsu]

Observant players will notice how, despite all these attempts to make me sound like I don't have a case, dana was completely unable to argue against a single point that I made in my previous post.

More observant players will notice how I'm done defending myself because Azelf has not brought up anything that I haven't dealt with. He is repeating assumptions. That is all.

[danakillsu]

Yeah. JacobSavage isn't the vote anymore since people are thankfully actually playing again. It looks like I might have to try to break this game open or get lynched. Will iso Lowell, JS, Gheb, and Kunk.

[danakillsu]

I don't know, I just automatically included him. I didn't actually iso him and got kind of side-tracked, but here are my results.
Gheb and Lowell are essentially active lurkers. Neither has posted much content in this game, and both have been known to buddy/ask for other's opinions instead of making their own. I find both mildly suspicious.
Kunk, however, I find scary, mainly for one thing. He is constantly saying, "Dana is suspicous" "Dana is scum" "Dana should be lynched" and doesn't do anything about it at all until recently, when everyone starts voting for me. That's a really scummy thing to do.

unvote vote: kunkstar

[danakillsu]

It's "active lurking", when you stop in once in awhile to say who your top suspect is or vote, but don't actually make a full case against someone. This always results in very short posts. There's no need to swear, though. I didn't even FoS you....

[danakillsu]

Even though I'm a VT, it might help town to lynch me. I don't know. Anyway, I can't say anything in my defense that I haven't already said, so I'll just wait and see. It's sad that eloquence, length, and repetition are all it takes to get me lynched.

[danakillsu]

I'm VT. Lynch Kunk. Goodbye.

Bye?
danakillsu-6-JacobSavage, Wdjat, Azelf, Lowell, kunkstar7, lobstermania
JacobSavage-1-Gayle
kunkstar7-1-danakillsu
lobstermania-1-Greb