Open 201 v2.0 ~ F&I Mafia ~ Game Over

[JacobSavage]

/confirm

[JacobSavage]

Wee Random votes:

Vote: The Longing

Because no one else is voting her!

[JacobSavage]

@DTM/Faraside

Missed like a day or so, then took a long time to get through the discussion so far.

This is probably my 3rd post so far. And to be honest, I may just stay away from jumping to conclusions *remembers how he got the Doctor mod-killed last game*

And yes it has been a while, although most of the discussion has been between Farside/Lacey, which, just to help build a meta, I notice she does a lot. I seem to remember looking through a few games before this started and coming across, another one of her games where she behaved just like this, maybe my meta is wrong of her, but we shall see how that game turns out.

Current scum reads are most likely:
Spring-for lurking, a bit hypocritical, I know but something deals me it is.

Current Town reads:

do you normally add apostrophes where they don't belong?

Goro- I cannot see why scum would be so nit-picky about something so trivial and make enemies amongst the town.

@Goro

On that topic, capital letters and other punctuation are also important.

In terms of the general discussion regarding Lacey's and KMD's deal,

@Mod

(can't remember is referring to on going games against the rules, did look but couldn't see it their)

That's all I have got so far, Will try and be more active over the next few days

[JacobSavage]

@Farside.
I was referring to Lacey's Meta.
@DTM
1. One no, I was mealy making an observation that scum, would not try and make enemies amongst the town at this early stage, and especially over such a trivial matter.

2a. I have a relatively weak scum list, as by examining what little meta I have seen of hers, she does seem to like arguments, and their is nothing wrong with that.

b. And yes I do think that Gorro is town (see post 1), and was merely using his post as my reasoning, rather than directly replying to it.

c.I am inclined to believe that Lacey is town and KMD is scum, given the completely different reactions he placed compared to last time

[JacobSavage]

@ Lacey
During the original Open 201,

[JacobSavage]

@DTMaster

So far in that, I am more cautious towards going down defiantly.
And for the record, I don't think that KMD is defiantly scum, I was just commenting on the subtle change in attitude between this game and last

[JacobSavage]

Current scum reads are most likely:
Spring-for lurking, a bit hypocritical, I know but something

tells me that he is scum

.

(Bold=Just clarifing what I said)
I love it how both Me and Gheb think that Spring is scum and vote for him at around PS 160 ish and then suddenly:

unvote:
vote: Spring

80 posts later after 1 more post...
Anyway I will act on my fos, and vote, if Spring hasn't posted by, oh... lets say Tuesday.
Not voting him just in case scum decides to hammer

[JacobSavage]

Also, I find it interesting that both Jacob and TheLonging are hopping on that wagon.

Although when I got on it was just Gheb, and I didn't realise he was on it.

@Sando: Not a point just the first example I came across.

[JacobSavage]

And anyway, just meta purposes
Lacey lynched d1, had massive argument etc.

flipped town

Damn I need to find more games she has partaken in but just comparing her meta at first glance, I think she may be town.

[JacobSavage]

@CSL:

I wouldn't have noticed It, she hasn't posted enough for me to see it .

@Farside

Although we do need to concider the replacee, as well as the replacer, It could be easier to get reads of Goro than Spring, prehaps Spring is better at hidding it

[JacobSavage]

@Farside

Oh, I thought Spring had replaced Goro

[JacobSavage]

@Yellow: I am not saying that I don't support the wagon, I am just pointing out that it wasn't a wagon when I first got on it, way before you arrived (page 7/8, I think) and ages before anyone else joined.

[JacobSavage]

@All, Did you all get a pm with a note of apology from Lacey?
and is Spring being replaced or what?

[JacobSavage]

Right as Spring is being replaced, I am not him.
He has also flaked out of a newbie game as IC... don't know whether this is a pattern with him, get's role he doesn't like and flakes

[JacobSavage]

*voting him

[JacobSavage]

Two top suspects, are: -Col Cathart and Gheb

[JacobSavage]

a) Why me?
b) Why Gheb?
c) Why you are voting TheLonging then?
d) Bonus question: What are your thoughts about kmd? I remember you suspected him at the beginning of the game. Anything changed?

a) Just general vibes I got from Lacey and you for some reason compounded that. I suspect It was that you are very vocal, and controling of the discussion [asking long lists of questions to player's ect] . This I find is usally a scum tactic, to try and manipulate the conversation.

b) Gheb was scum all of last game, and I didn't suspect anything from him then, and this time he is following the same play style.

c) That was my RVS vote, and have yet to change it, and quite a few people have commented on that. It is mearly that all I have got at the moment is feelings, and feelings aren't enough to get someone lynched.

d) Can you give me a post number, I don't remember so, but last game he was doctor and I read him as scum, and promptly got him modkilled, not a good move. Although his last post made him suspious

@ KMD

[quote="KMD"Jacob is starting to seem scummier than I thought originally. Maybe TheLonging too.[/quote]

Is their a basis to this or is it just a feeling?

Let's see. Col-wagon is bad cuz Lacey was town.

I agree, I think much of this is just based on the prinicple that she aruged with farside. This does not make her scum, It is her town meta.

[JacobSavage]

No what changed is that she got acted like this is another game (that I was reading, I like reading and I like the title. This was before I realised she was in this game). That was why I was very cautious about jumping on the bandwagon, I was waiting to see what she flipped. She flipped town, and hence my stance changed. I now need to find one that she was involved in that she was Mafia

[JacobSavage]

I never said that the meta was soild, although when she is mafia she does tend to suck up to people, which I didn't see her doing in this game.

Also, my meta is about 1 year old, and is only based on what Lacey has given me to read. Because she only has played one game has scum- which was her first, and she won. It has also told me what an "ISO" is , thanks .

Just as and Example

Hey guys, this Lacey is about to turn into a Pumpkin, as it's 1:25am, I'm in a strange city, stranded in a storm, and I have a long drive tomorrow. I'll have limited access tomorrow morning as I slog through the snow, but I'll be online when I get to Indianapolis, off and on. I'll be on more regular tomorrow night.

Nighty night! Sleep tight! And thank you boys for such a fun night of logical discourse. I could really come to enjoy this if it doesn't eat too much time!

Hey guys, this Lacey is about to turn into a Pumpkin, as it's 1:25am, I'm in a strange city, stranded in a storm, and I have a long drive tomorrow. I'll have limited access tomorrow morning as I slog through the snow, but I'll be online when I get to Indianapolis, off and on. I'll be on more regular tomorrow night.

Nighty night! Sleep tight! And thank you boys for such a fun night of logical discourse. I could really come to enjoy this if it doesn't eat too much time!

However, I have not seen any of the tatics she employed, being very friendly, asking how people are, generally not making arguments, generally playing on her feminity etc. Read it yourself or ask Col:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=550

However something about Col. makes me think that my Lacey meta was to do with her being a new player at the time, It is his controlling attitude. But I am not sure, I think he is scum, but don't think he is a candidate for the lynch. A bit hypocritical, I know, and anyways, I wanted to get my suspions out their before I left for School, so It was rushed.

[JacobSavage]

@KMD

[quote="kmd4300]Jacob, I wasn't looking at the accuracy of the meta. I was looking at your change in back-to-back posts in your stance. You said the meta was your reason for doing so, but I showed that you were aware of the meta long before the change took place.

Unvote, Vote Jacob [/quote]

It was only know that I find Col.Cathard very suspious in his controlling way that he took over the game. I tend to find this type of play very anti-town, except when it is a confirmed power role. it is usually a sign that he is trying to steer the votes towards a specific target. Who is me, hence the large amount of questioning.

@Gheb

It's called "being consistent". I'm sorry I don't get suspected too much even when I'm scum. Saying I'm suspect based on that is pretty weak. Were you trying to soft-parrot Col.?

More a reaction tester, best way to pull someone apart when they are consistent, is to apply a small amount of pressure, and see how they react. Simples

[JacobSavage]

Lets deal in simple maths
[---------------------------------------------]
Town Scum

With Lacey I got:
[--------------I------------------------------]
Town Scum

But With Col. I got:
[------------------------------------I--------]
Town Scum

Overall:
[---------------------------I-----------------]
Town Scum

[JacobSavage]

@KMD

Finally, what I have been saying is that my Town tell on Lacey was weak, because the majority was based on an meta, which is out of date!

However my gut is telling me that Col is acting very scum-like. And I don't know about you but I rate my gut over my out of date meta any day.

How that clarifies it.

@CSL

More of a personal question, what happened to Luigi? and why have you and animorph have the same style of Avatar?

[JacobSavage]

Anyway, just as I side point, what I view as scummy or not, is entirely based on experience, although most of it is RL and most are not as good (remembers the time vanilla claimed doctor and day vigilante, *sigh*). However what I have learned is that I am a very odd player, I am scummy when town, but innocent when mafia, just a side point.

@Farside: In that case DTM is scum with Yellow.

@Col: My opinion is flexible, and changes depending on the game, I was looking at each person in isolation, gives a far more accurate impression of their character rather than looking at the role slot as a whole. Only after you have your first read do you combine the two.

Also being vocal isn't anti-town, however controlling the conversation is. Suddenly forcing me to give my top suspects, without much consideration.

Also, your hesitancy to vote anyone after your RVS one is scummy to me. I was hesitant to vote in my first game as scum, and I managed to find a couple more of them thanks to this. If not for Gheb around, you would have my vote right now.

1. Well I will bare that in mind when I get the scum pm.
2. My hesitancy to vote is nothing to do with that, it is to do with being unsure with who the scum are, and given that their is two teams, it is a completely kettle of fish, all scum are in affect "townies".

Fine looks like I am having to give my FoS again.
Scum team 1:

[JacobSavage]

EBWOP:

@Star

-> Just a technical note, I am not on the wagon
->Second when I "got on", it wasn't a wagon, it was just me and Gheb, hence not a wagon.

@Farside

In affect yes, I am saying Goro isn't scum because of his grammar corrections.
Scum tend not be so happy about making enemies over pointless things

And just to keep the Col Happy:

Unvote

[JacobSavage]

@DTM:

1. Out of Site-Meta, and old 201 was my first game on this site so, I am not sure how to help yo :S

2. Not an accusation, more that Farside said that either me or you where scum with Farside, and fmpov, it was you if Farside was correct.

3. Sorry, I found it better to do it the other way around.

[JacobSavage]

Jacob continues with the somewhat weak logical capabilities as far as I have read backwards. Not liking him at all.

Not weak logical capabilities, just bent ones

[JacobSavage]

Wall of Text Ahoy!

@ farside and chauchaudotcom

I say unless you can gain infomation from which ever why they flip, It is best not to lynch them. And anyway when I flip town, as I will, what will that tell you? Other that you were wrong, and that you have done exactly what many people have done before, and say I am obvscum, and then are shocked when I flip town.

Oh wait. There's suspicion on Col now! So he switches to Col being a top suspect because.....

I look at a player as a person, rather than looking at the player slot, first and foremost. It is how I play, and It means that if a person replaces in, I tend to base my reads, I case the player they are replacing, is like me and has a scummy meta (read last game). You may not like my playing style, but it is how I roll.

Jacob wrote:
a) Just general vibes I got from Lacey and you for some reason compounded that. I suspect It was that you are very vocal, and controling of the discussion [asking long lists of questions to player's ect] . This I find is usally a scum tactic, to try and manipulate the conversation.


Oh shit! Cuz he asks questions! Damn scum questions! (And if you can't get my sarcasm that is NOT a scum tell). Furthermore, he says it's because of vibes that he got from both LACEY and Col. Oh but wait..he thought Lacey was town....whaaaaaaaaat?

No, being vocal and attempting to steer the conversation is generally a scum tell in my books, sorry if you dont agree, then tough. Scum want to steer the "sheep", towards a player, and being vocal often helps them in this.

Wait..huh? Now he goes back and agrees with KMD? But no..he must have some explanation...

I do actually, I prefer to trust my gut, but in this case, as It was a very weak read overall, it would be better not to lynch until I was sure.

And perhaps I missed something but what was the reasoning for your unvote?

Oh, only this:

Also, your hesitancy to vote anyone after your RVS one is scummy to me. I was hesitant to vote in my first game as scum, and I managed to find a couple more of them thanks to this.

It was more of a jokey unvote, because I hadn't changed it since the RVS stage.

[JacobSavage]

All lynches provide information. This is a weak defense, in fact there is no defense.

But some provide more than others.

So simply, why are you town?

Because I am. That is what Mafia boils down to, one persons word over the other, and because we have a sheep town, I will be lynched, and you will question yourself when I fill town.

So simply, I am town because I am 100% sure I am town. Take it or leave it.

[JacobSavage]

Jacob: how did Col steer the conversation? Why is this a scum tell in your book?

Lets look back:

Yellow, Jacob/TheLonging seem town to me.

(Post 324)

Just a few examples of what I was before Col (it is interesting to note that one of them is from Lacey, who Col replaced)

Then:
[quote="Col]

Jacob:

I'd like to hear your top 2 suspects. I have a feeling you completely avoid talking about it, and I have a problem with getting read on you. [/quote]

I answered

Wed Mar 17, 2010

7:40 am

Post subject: 346
Two top suspects, are: -Col Cathart and Gheb

Notice the time. I leave at around 7:40am, and was just giving and answer to Col before I left for the day, because I understand this is a predominately US-based site, so I chose what my gut reads where from my most recent memory to give the town something to work on. However, the reaction that I got, made me even more sure that my Lacey meta had been completely wrong, and that Col read was correct.

I say that Col/Farside scumbuddies (reverse bussing) and Max/DTM (More Guess work)

[JacobSavage]

Vote: Startransmission

Vote of Self-preservation and Starting to think the he could be scum with DTM or Max?

[JacobSavage]

+ If I am going to be lynched, can I at least know who my supposed partner is?

and

b. Mafia is a team game . It seems you don't quite understand this.

A team game for scum, sure. But town, it is more working out who to trust, so for town, on the simplest level it is trust me because I know who I am not scum

[JacobSavage]

One of Star/Yellow/DT

Hey my fellow scum!

[JacobSavage]

If you are town. Why would you want to know this? Besides the possibility of you throwing a bunch of wifom into the mix and confusing town when you

do flip scum

.

Thank God, I wont be confusing the town, when I do in fact flip town, 100% cast-iron guarantee, with no hidden scummy ness

Jacob, WTF is with asking for who your partner is? This serves literally no purpose if you're town, and gives scum a lovely bit of information. Unless someone can't rationalise anyone being your partner, there's not a lot of reason for town to state this on D1.

Personal Interest, and gives more of a help to the town

post 588 reads like a soft claim.

You actually think I would soft claim!, we may have what is called a "stupid" town.

[JacobSavage]

I have in fact explained all of these points, just you haven't looked at them because they aren't set out o

Jacob: how did Col steer the conversation? Why is this a scum tell in your book?

To put it bluntly, it is, its how I play. And in terms of how did Col steer the conversation *looks at all the votes on him*

[JacobSavage]

But even more so is his reactions so far after being bussed.

Right, Chau has just founded some new rules, townies can get bussed by their scum buddies! Yay! Oh... wait... crap they don't exist

Vote:chauchaudotcom

[JacobSavage]

So chau admits to bussing and jacob is the scum partner. Hey it works lynch one jacob flips scum, lynch the other. We have one less kill to worry about as of night 3

You seem to be missing the point, I will not flip scum. So...

[JacobSavage]

So chau admits to bussing and jacob is the scum partner. Hey it works lynch one jacob flips scum, lynch the other. We have one less kill to worry about as of night 3

You seem to be missing the point, I will not flip scum. So...

[JacobSavage]

/Late Bah

May I say:
The Quintastic One

Ice Mafia

DTMaster

Fire Mafia

farside22

Ice Mafia

Chronopie

Fire Mafia

Max Zang

Ice Mafia

Sando

Fire Mafia

startransmission

Ice Mafia

Gheb

Fire Mafia

<__<