Open 209: The Invasion of Liten (Game Over)

[Alduskkel]

1. Do you prefer town or scum?
2. Is lurking a scum tell?
3. Do you prefer town hunting or scum hunting?
4. How active do you normally consider yourself, in-game?
5. Policy lynches—good or bad?
6. Lynch All Liars—good or bad?
7. Is it scummy to vote without immediately giving the reason?
8. Is it bad to out your town reads?

1. Depends on my mood. Most of the time scum, though.
2. Yes.
3. Whatever floats your boat. Personally, I tend to scum hunt rather than town hunt though.
4. Pretty active, unless the game bores me.
5. Depends on how bad the player is, and how many mislynches are left. I'm not against it, but not gung-ho for it either.
6. How good lynch all liars is is inversely proportional to the complexity of the setup. In a simple setup like this I support it.
7. No.
8. Yes, but it's quite hard to avoid.

Vote: Haylen

. Go bandwagon go!

[Alduskkel]

This is what happens when the game gains ~4 pages.

Re: Bandwagoning on Haylen. I am a fan of L-2 wagons on people in the RVS.

Re: Meta. I have an extensive wiki entry. Feel free to check it out.

I was going to keep some pressure on Haylen to see what happens, but I think that if Haylen is going to make herself super-obvious by active lurking all game (which she usually does as scum, iirc), the best thing to do to encourage that behaviour is to relieve the pressure on her.

Way to tell Haylen how not to get on your scumdar!

@ Nika: Because you're the person I'm most concerned with responding to.

honestly I didn't see the need for a response to the post where I said you were buddying with me. I voted you, then unvoted you in the same post. It wasn't a big concern of mine.
You found it something you needed to defend against, and I find that interesting. I LOVED your defense though. You said the perfect things to say, I just didn't think you needed to say them. I was relooking at it in that post. I'm still not sure how I view it, but as I said it didn't stand out as particularly scummy to me.

On the Nicodemus note: I hadn't thought of it that way. well, obviously. I liked that he caught onto it. I had left it there for people to see obviously, but I also liked that he wanted my reasons. hmm I guess I'll see based on how he reacts to my answers. Still, I do get what you're saying. That's something I'll have to keep in mind on his future posts.

BTW I love your new avatar.

Smells like buddying.

Tastes like chicken.

You "loved" his defense. You "love" his new avatar.

Pully

I'm trying to learn from Battle Mage. I like his style and even though he was scum, he played such a pro-town game that I'd like to use his scum play a bit in general. I stated that at the time in my second open science game.

Did you just claim scum?

Doesn't sound like it. Where are you getting this?

You found it something you needed to defend against, and I find that interesting. I LOVED your defense though. You said the perfect things to say, I just didn't think you needed to say them. I was relooking at it in that post. I'm still not sure how I view it, but as I said it didn't stand out as particularly scummy to me.

I just like to make sure we're on the same page. Mutual understanding and all that. Getting accurate town reads on the town is just as important as getting accurate scum reads on the scum, after all.

BTW I love your new avatar.

Thanks!

Looks like you guys are good pals! And by that I mean you guys are really buddying up to each other.

I don't feel like posting anything useful right now.

Okay then! Happy with my vote!

5. Refuse to answer this question. If I ever vote based upon a policy, my answer could make this vote meaningless. Now, that player don't know.

How do you feel about this response to your 5th question, crypto?

The following are scum:
Crypto
with
SFG
and
Steam-Powered Shovel
with
Nicodemus

Reasons...?

ATTENTION SCUMBAG LURKER

2. Is lurking a scum tell?

. . .

2. Yes.

Oh shit I've only been posting once a day!! Scummy scumbag lurker here!!

Nika's reasoning was good. She was trying to explain away the slanted accusation I put at her, and she explained it well. She felt at the time that I was town because my answers were fully explained which makes me seem open and honest. It was a solid answer to a foggy question. I didn't feel it was needed, but she came out with it anyway without any real provocation. I like that.

Even more buddying.

Why does SPS need to be dead now?

His single post consisted of answers to my survey and an unreasoned wagon vote.

His Nico case looks so opportunistic my head asplode.

That second quote sounds like it's about me, not SPS.

I still enjoy haylens posts. I can't explain it, but I really do.

@ Crypto, Mind telling me what's so interesting? BTW I like this avatar best of all your avatars so far

on a side note: I'm really enjoying this game so far. It seems like a generally good group, a group I could be comfortable with.

MASTER OF BUDDYING HERE

Need more content from:
Haylen
horrordude0215
Max
Sniper

FoS: All of them.

Haylen gets the vote for active lurking.

FoS: Pulindar

. Guess why. I'll give you a hint, it starts with a B and rhymes with muddying.

[Alduskkel]

Mod: Spoiler Haylen's flame image on the previous page. If anyone ever rereads that page it'll be a pain in the ass.

Spoilering doesn't work in this case (as all it does is blacken out text). Sorry.

Max:

The following are scum:
Crypto
with
SFG
and
Steam-Powered Shovel
with
Nicodemus

Why do you suspect these people?

Unvote, Vote: Sniper

. His posts are even less content-filled than Haylen's.

[Alduskkel]

im not going to vote Max because it could be misconstrued as OMGUS

vote:SPS

Eh? If you suspect Max, vote for him! Are you so worried about looking scummy that you'll refuse to vote for one of your suspects?

FoS: SFG

.

[Alduskkel]

Mod: Spoiler Haylen's flame image on the previous page. If anyone ever rereads that page it'll be a pain in the ass.

Spoilering doesn't work in this case (as all it does is blacken out text). Sorry.

Would you mind replacing it with a link to the image, then?

Also, what Slaxx said.

[Alduskkel]

She's just being BA. Don't worry about it.

Bad-ass, or Bachelor of Arts degree? I think I know which one you mean, but I want to make sure. Or do you mean something different entirely...?

crypto clearly means Haylen's the Bird of Arkham, the oft overlooked brother of Batman!

Alduskkel, are you just going to hunt lurkers all game?

Is that all I'm going to do? Probably not. Hunting lurkers is a pretty good idea though IMO.

SFG: Your rule 2 should not get in the way of your scumhunting!

[Alduskkel]

Max: No, really, why do you suspect those people? You haven't given any reasons of your own. At all.

SFG: Your reads list is okay I guess.

Some reads I don't like, in varying degrees:

Haylen: You say you're a bit frustrated with her for lack of content. Of course I feel more strongly on the matter, so I find Haylen scummier than you do.

Alduskkel (that's me!): Dunno if you still feel I'm kind of scummy (that's the vibe I got off your post, anyway), but I explained that I have no qualms putting people at L-2.

Steam-Powered Shovel: Yeah, I think he's tunneling a bit maybe, but he has raised interesting points about Nicodemus. It's definitely worth keeping an eye on where it goes.

Slaxx: Your read is made before he made that long post, so the "lack of content" accusation doesn't really hold water anymore.

[Alduskkel]

Hi Furry

Can't say I agree with your reads ATM. Will wait to see what you think after you finish reading the whole game.

Q1

: Who do you believe is the partner of the player you are voting for?

Speculating on scum partners before a single scum has died is jumping the gun.

And guys, stop posting page-stretching images.

[Alduskkel]

OK, just reread the thread, and here are my scum reads:

1. Nikanor

I'm pretty sure that Nikanor is scum. Voting for horrordude for accusing slaxx of naming his scumpartner seemed really off compared to how defensive she got over crypto's RVS case against her. I realize that it won't carry as much weight when I say this, since I'm the one who she attacked, but the way she voted for me seemed suspicious too. She posted once, saying I looked scummy, and then posted a second time with the actual vote. We were so close to the start of the game there (page 4 iirc) I see no reason to refrain from voting for someone that you see as scummy. Various posts throughout the day have struck me as suspicious as well.

[snip]

3. Sanhora

Not nearly as confident on this one as I am of the first too, but I'm getting scummy vibes from Sanhora as well. The catch-up post that he posted just seemed off to me.

4. Slaxx

Basically see above, and substitute Slaxx in for Sanhora. I'm not feeling like I'm getting the full story in Slaxx's posts, and I'd like to see more from him.

You're going to have to flesh these suspicions out for me to give them much consideration. Where are your quotes? What "various posts" of Nikanor do you find suspicious, and what is it about them that is scummy? What is scummy about Sanhora/Slaxx's catch-up posts (since you are lumping them together)?

Honestly, I'm starting to thing Haylen is town because she's playing so badly

Give me a break.

That being said, every game I've been in usually winds up being a policy lynch D1 due to on Village Idiot, but as you know from another game keeping them around for D2 so they can fake claim doc as townie...cough...is more troublesome for town anyway. This being said, I will vote sniper to L-1

This doesn't apply at all. NO ONE is going to claim Doctor in this game, at least not seriously. Don't care if the person is a complete VI, they won't seriously fake claim Doctor. Plus this seems like a pretty weak case. It sounds like you just want to policy lynch Sniper actually. Not a very good L-1 vote.

FoS: Slaxx

.

[Alduskkel]

So Slaxx, since apparently your answer to my question was a joke, care to post a serious answer?

[Alduskkel]

I dont think [Alduskkel is] scum.

I think that one of Aldukkel or Max is probably scum

So you think Max is scum?

Sniper is officially mega-newb-town

Everyone should unvote him now. Have a midterm tomorrow and quiz thursday so expect a case thursday night at the latest.

That is incredibly drastic! I think you're letting Sniper slide too easily.

But... [Sniper] is town

@slaxx - Yes, it is a sure statement. He is town. Seriously.

Can't imagine how you could possibly be so sure he's Town. Even if you're scum he could be scum. Hmm.

Ardunkel

Worst misspelling of my name ever. There is no R or N. And you lost the S.

Adustkel

Nice try Haylen, love your addition of a T. If you hope to beat Slaxx though, you're going to have to add more random letters. I suggest an X or a G.

do you like SFG's move on removing the vote from the wagon?

I'm neutral towards it. I guess I'd put it down as a weak Town tell. It IS a bit early to be lynching, although on the other hand I think having Sniper at L-1 is worth it for the reactions (unless he self-hammered... that'd suck).

I want to lynch Alduskkel.

I have seen absolutely no accusing of anybody being scum.

Not even listing scummy activities, obsesses on other peoples views with never even providing his own people to lynch, the closest to accusing someone of being scum he's been is saying pulindar is buddying which I've seen none of particularly.
I've been attempting to get any feedback from my line of questioning but he's not posted an iota of anything useful to the town. Fillers that make him look as though he's scum hunting but genuinely he isn't particularly doing much of anything.

im not going to vote Max because it could be misconstrued as OMGUS

vote:SPS

Eh? If you suspect Max, vote for him! Are you so worried about looking scummy that you'll refuse to vote for one of your suspects?

FoS: SFG

.

That being said, every game I've been in usually winds up being a policy lynch D1 due to on Village Idiot, but as you know from another game keeping them around for D2 so they can fake claim doc as townie...cough...is more troublesome for town anyway. This being said, I will vote sniper to L-1

This doesn't apply at all. NO ONE is going to claim Doctor in this game, at least not seriously. Don't care if the person is a complete VI, they won't seriously fake claim Doctor. Plus this seems like a pretty weak case. It sounds like you just want to policy lynch Sniper actually. Not a very good L-1 vote.

FoS: Slaxx

.

(Underline added by me). Damn Max, I am obviously not scumhunting anyone! I am caught scum!

Not to mention my suspicions of Nikanor and Pulindar, though those are stashed away for the moment.

At least you spelled my name correctly. Or you copy and pasted it.

[Alduskkel]

Nice try Haylen, love your addition of a T.

I'm dyslexic.

Umm...

Mostly I just get tired of my name being spelled wrong more often than right.

[Alduskkel]

Just noticed the "Adel" thing.

Hope you guys don't find the avatar change too startling.

[Alduskkel]

Overall Read:

Only scummy thing I can find is the contradiction between the policy lynch on Sniper and the comment about hunting lurkers. I guess I just want an explanation on the difference from his point of view.

What do you mean exactly? I'm not sure what you're referring to.

Also, I love how you have some

Code: Select all

[color=black][/color]

tags in there.

[Alduskkel]

Is that all I'm going to do? Probably not. Hunting lurkers is a pretty good idea though IMO.

It sounds like you just want to policy lynch Sniper actually. Not a very good L-1 vote.

They are different indeed, but I just want to know why hunting lurkers is any better than policy lynching.

I have no problem with policy lynches. But, it bothers me if someone is putting another person at L-1 this early in the game and they just seem to want to lynch them solely for bad play.

[Alduskkel]

You like policy lynches, but it was too early, is what you're saying? Because "lynch them solely for bad play" is a policy lynch, unless I'm misunderstood.

Yeah. Basically I thought your vote was kind of tacked on (i.e., bandwagoning) and coupled with the fact that it was early in the day and an L-1 vote it seems scummy.

Bumping for a vote count.

lol

Yeah, yeah, laugh it up. That was hilarious, though, which is why I'm not modkilling you for making the mod look fail.

[Alduskkel]

Oh, and Max doesn't address or even acknowledge Alduskkel's defense. Scummy.

I acknowledged it by reading it here is my formal response:
- Both of the posts you have quoted do not say that you find a person scummy beyond the most feeble arguments even a three year old could make
- Quote two cannot be serious, he's calling him out on commenting on the newbieness of a player, (it's evident that nobody's going to claim doc *round of applause*) then states that he is the scummy one for wanting a sniper lynch and nobody else is, because he wants a policy lynch on sniper... yay?
- Quote one isn't calling him scum, it's just stating that it's evidently wrong with the "I don't want to look like I'm OMGUSSING". IIoA

I haven't seen anything that looks remotely useful to the town just quote after quote making side notes, either contradicting or agreeing not actually attacking any scum. Is voting sniper while opposing him being placed at L-1 when he's responsible just as much.

Have you read the same game as me? Quote one points out that SFG was thinking like scum, valuing looking Town over voting for a suspect. The second one says that Slaxx's L-1 seemed rash and bandwagony in light of the fact that it seemed like he just wanted to policy lynch him (i.e., he didn't have a scum read on him). I've explained this before.

I think its obvious he thinks your scum Max, but I would have to ask why his votes still on someone he thinks is inno, as you said.

Who are you talking about here? Aside from Max obv.

Alduskkel, would you mind giving your reads on people?

Here are some:

-Haylen's been failing to produce much content. It's not as bad as with Sniper, so I'm not voting for her yet.

-And of course then there's Sniper himself, who I suspect for very obvious reasons.

-Pulindar is either buddying or just really friendly. He kind of bugs me.

-SFG for thinking like scum (see quote 2, though it isn't in this post).

-Slaxx for reasons in quote 1, but again you'll have to look back for it.

-Nicodemus for active lurking really hard. His most recent post also basically said nothing. Who does he really suspect???

That's 6 people, which is of course more people than there are scum.

Except for Nicodemus, I've stated all of this before, and gone more in-depth. If you really need to, just reread my posts.

Who is scum, Haylen?

How am I meant to know?

- Haylen -

Obv Town

- LordChronos

Neutral

- Max

Scummy

- Pulindar

Slight town read

- Alduskkel

Slight scum read

- crypto

He exists? Umm...dunno

- Nikanor

Neutral leaning scum

- SFG

Leaning town

- Steam-Powered Shovel

Scummy. Instinct.

- Slaxx

Town read

- Furry

Neutral

- Nicodemus

Scum read

- Sniper

Scum read

Could I see reasons for at least the scum reads?

Slaxx: Looked like you were pressuring Haylen about the lack of reasons, but then you mysteriously backed off after Haylen gave a completely unsatisfactory answer that happened to be kind of funny. What gives?

If Nico is town, Slaxx gets lynched.

I'm constantly lamenting my inability to find an image of Jon Stewart with the caption "

Go on...

" I'd like to see your reasoning for this, Haylen.

Sniper: Pretty much confirmed town by the mod

'fraid not. Self voting goes against your wincon no matter what (well, unless you're a Jester).

Sticking with my Sniper vote still. He's played before but he's still trying to use the newb card. I, for one, am not buying it.

[Alduskkel]

Hey Slaxx, answer this:

Slaxx: Looked like you were pressuring Haylen about the lack of reasons, but then you mysteriously backed off after Haylen gave a completely unsatisfactory answer that happened to be kind of funny. What gives?

@Al. Wow, that's a mess up. I thought Nik was on sniper wagon but looking back he wasn't.

IIRC, Nikanor has actually been defending Sniper.

Interesting points about crypto in 515. Would like to see a defense from him.

[Alduskkel]

Starting with post 513...the only thing I like in there is Pul's case on Sniper, and as I said before, I think we can drive him out of this town (or, if the scum want to do us all a favor and kill him, its better for them to use their NK on him than on a productive player). Everything else I see here smells strongly of sheep >_>

Why? What do you specifically dislike about 513?

[Alduskkel]

Everything else I see here smells strongly of sheep >_>

Why? What do you specifically dislike about 513?

I think that should answer your question nicely.

I mean, what about it is sheepish? I can take a guess, but I'd like to hear your answer.

[Alduskkel]

Where is Nicodemus?

[Alduskkel]

Though I'm very upset with Haylen and Nicodemus's (active, in the case of Haylen) lurking, I'm willing to see their play on Day 2. I don't see Sniper improving anytime soon though.

[Alduskkel]

Nicodemus's vote is very convenient for him, but honestly I do not know who else I would have expected him to vote for. On the other hand he really hasn't come out with any of the content he promised.

I don't know what Furry is trying to say about Max not being Nicodemus's partner. He said that Nico's partner is likely to be on the tail end of his wagon (take note, that's where Max is right now) or on Sniper's wagon.

Also, if my activity has waned it's because this game is starting to bore me, since discussion is petering out but we haven't had any flips yet. Mostly I'm just waiting around for Dragonfly.

[Alduskkel]

716 is :goodposting:.

My opinion of Nicodemus? I thought he was pretty scummy for active lurking, as well as a few other less important things. I wanted to see if he improved at all on Day 2, though.

Slaxx: Wish you hadn't hammered, I would have preferred to have heard more from Dragonfly13 before the Day ended. I think it would have been particularly interesting to see who Dragonfly chose to hammer. Also, obviously I wanted a Sniper lynch, not a Nicodemus one.

[Alduskkel]

Who do you think the scum are, Furry? I want four names from you.

Max with... Haylen I think, there are a few who work here

and two of

[Adul/nik/slaxx]

At this point im most sure of Max-scum, SPS-town and Sniper-town, I like deconstructive reasoning most. Given the dissent on my town reads I believe a Max lynch and subsequent NKs, would narrow this down quickly enough. I realize this leaves out Plundir and SFG, who are both between the threesome and town reads.

Hmm, why me?
---
Haylen, it's Day 2 and the Scummies are over. I DEMAND CONTENT. Until then,

Vote: Haylen

.
---
I'm also curious to see whether Sniper will be replaced.
---
NK WIFOM is a waste of time. Discuss real things guys.

[Alduskkel]

There are cops...oh...I get you sorry did not know.

Unvote

Vote: Max!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Copper!

I don't know whether to lynch you or Haylen. You're positively driving me insane, Sniper.

[Alduskkel]

The Max-Furry thing is getting ridiculous. There arguments against each other just seem to make them seem scummier to each other. Right now I am of the opinion that Max has a play style that is just different and also that he disagrees on theory with Furry. Example: Max asked about scum partners. Furry disagrees with asking that question. So, Furry puts that down as a scum tell on Max.

Also, I noticed that SPS's case on Max amounts to this:

Gut. Also, his "case" on Alduskkel.

And also that Max doesn't like to put out votes much, which is again a play style difference that's being interpreted as a scum tell.

Seeing one of my scum reads (Max) going after one of my town reads (Alduskkel) warms the cockles of my second heart.

Being wrong isn't a scum tell, if you think that Max attacking a Town read of yours is scummy.

Haylen voting Sniper is like the pot voting for the kettle. It's laughable at best.

The NK speculation is getting us nowhere, like I've said. Furry called it null in 831, but apparently he thinks there's something to it. Is anyone basing their vote primarily on NK speculation? I don't think so. Has it really told us anything? No.

By the way, I recommend checking Sniper in iso every so often to see when his most recent post was. If we can rack up enough prods on him we can get him replaced.

That enough, SFG?

[Alduskkel]

Furry, you're a piss-poor manipulator if you think telling people that you like to manipulate them will allow you to manipulate them.

If that makes sense.

Unless this is some sort of Xanatos Gambit thing (not going to link to TV Tropes... that thing is a time black hole).

[Alduskkel]

Mod: If every single living player (except Sniper) requested his replacement, would you replace him?

[Alduskkel]

Furry, regardless of your read on Sniper, would you like to see him forcibly replaced or not?

[Alduskkel]

So basically you've FoS'd every living person except for SPS and Nikanor, and no dead person. This is making me ve-ry uneasy about you. Also at the end of Day 1 you wuzzled around carefully not making cases on anyone but being "unhappy" with prime lynch targets. I am not surprised that you are still alive toDay.

Big deal. Everyone commits scum tells, even townies. If not, then scum tells would be 100% accurate, which they are generally not. Couple that with the fact that I've been FoSing anyone who commits anything above a small scum tell and you get a boatload of FoSes. I also do not recall being particularly unhappy with the lynch candidates (Sniper and Nicodemus, I presume), although I would have liked to see if Nicodemus would have done anything differently on Day 2.

New list of scum suspects: Ald, Furry, Nikanor, SPS
Actually, Ald, you lucky bastard, I was trying to decide whether it would be more productive to vote for you or for Nikanor today and realized I was already voting you. So you get to keep my vote

So, is that list in order? Because, if so, you should have been deciding between me and Furry, not me and Nikanor.

What is making you uneasy exactly? That he hasn't FoSed/voted dead people?

The fact that he threw mostly ungrounded suspicion at almost everyone, and the few people he left out died. So basically he had "prior support" to lynch any one of the living people today, depending on which way the wind blows.

Ungrounded? That's just slander. When have any of my statements been ungrounded?

[Alduskkel]

There's an easier way to get through all this. Let's find all of my FoSes.

Need more content from:
Haylen
horrordude0215
Max
Sniper

FoS: All of them. Haylen gets the vote for active lurking.

FoS: Pulindar. Guess why. I'll give you a hint, it starts with a B and rhymes with muddying.

I've already said lurking is a scum tell.

At the time

I'd say all of those 4 people fit the bill. I don't think I need to explain Sniper and Haylen's presence on that list. horrordude0215 and Max simply hadn't racked up many posts at the time.

If you disagree with my Pulindar FoS then go back and read that post and tell me with a straight internet face that Pulindar wasn't being disturbingly friendly.

And by the way, if you think that a FoS is a warning that I might someone soon, then I can't imagine what you thought of this post. Did you think I was a quintuple voter?

im not going to vote Max because it could be misconstrued as OMGUS

vote:SPS

Eh? If you suspect Max, vote for him! Are you so worried about looking scummy that you'll refuse to vote for one of your suspects?

FoS: SFG

.

This is still a valid point against you SFG. I haven't followed up on it since you've been pro-Town otherwise. Your defense was basically a meta defense -- I don't mind that, but you a) pointed out that you often look scummy, so me finding you scummy shouldn't surprise you and b) you said that early on "do not let yourself be lynched" was a priority for you, which is a scum's way of thinking.

That being said, every game I've been in usually winds up being a policy lynch D1 due to on Village Idiot, but as you know from another game keeping them around for D2 so they can fake claim doc as townie...cough...is more troublesome for town anyway. This being said, I will vote sniper to L-1

This doesn't apply at all. NO ONE is going to claim Doctor in this game, at least not seriously. Don't care if the person is a complete VI, they won't seriously fake claim Doctor. Plus this seems like a pretty weak case. It sounds like you just want to policy lynch Sniper actually. Not a very good L-1 vote.

FoS: Slaxx

.

You FoS'd Slaxx for reaction-testing, a form of scum hunting.

No, I FoSed him for what I considered to be a hasty L-1 vote that looked like bandwagoning to me.

Anyway, that actually covers it all. I haven't FoSed anyone since March 2nd either.

[Alduskkel]

I've already said lurking is a scum tell.

At the time

I'd say all of those 4 people fit the bill. I don't think I need to explain Sniper and Haylen's presence on that list. horrordude0215 and Max simply hadn't racked up many posts at the time.

And I'm telling you that was like...what, 27 hours after Day started? Oh noes, only posted three times within 27 hours thats like *gasp* ONLY ONE POST EVERY 9 HOURS how incredibly scummy.

*shrug* Haylen and Sniper still count. Also, in addition to a low post count, horrordude0215 and Max weren't posting much content either (especially horrordude).

If you disagree with my Pulindar FoS then go back and read that post and tell me with a straight internet face that Pulindar wasn't being disturbingly friendly.

I do believe I just did that in my last post. I honestly don't see anything scummy there and I don't think anyone but you did either.

Last time I checked buddying is a scum tell.

And by the way, if you think that a FoS is a warning that I might someone soon, then I can't imagine what you thought of this post. Did you think I was a quintuple voter?

No, I think you were leaving your options open for whichever vote was most convenient for you to take.

You can think that if you like. There's no reason to take your explanation over mine, though.

The point is that I firmly believe that one of the most disrespectful things I can do to my town is to make them waste a lynch on me. Nico is in absolute disgrace for breaking that rule right now. At any rate, if you try and tell me that as town, my policy should be to get myself lynched, I am going to smack you with a giant salmon. Therefore I still don't see what it scummy about me stating this.

Not saying that getting yourself lynched is at all pro-Town, but not getting lynched should never take precedence over scum hunting.

No, I FoSed him for what I considered to be a hasty L-1 vote that looked like bandwagoning to me.

Which he said was reaction testing. Which is townie. Also if you think about it for perhaps three seconds, any player that was stupid enough to hammer that would get instalynched the next day (barring a scum flip), meaning that it also could have easily been a scumtrap which is ALSO townie.

Except that Slaxx revealed that it was reaction testing after I FoS'd him.

[Alduskkel]

Last time I checked buddying is a scum tell.

Last time I checked, being nice was not the same thing as buddying. Would you rather everyone was always flaming each other or would you use that to make a blanket attack about distancing?

I don't want flaming, but a bunch of random complements makes a bit suspicious of possible buddying.

My theory is hardly out of line with your current behavior and furthermore exposes your scumminess, so if you want to let your scumminess stand in the open I suppose that's fine with me.

So you can't explain what makes your theory any more likely than mine.

I believe I explained this before but since you didn't get it then either, I can try again. Because my scumhunting is notoriously weak that early in the game and also tends to lead to mega-tunnelling that is highly detrimental to the town, I would say that me trying to scumhunt just then would be nearly antitown. Therefore ensuring that I don't waste a lynch, a protown sort of goal, WILL take place over the nearly antitown behavior of scumhunting until such a time as scumhunting becomes protown.

*shrug* Sounds like a play style difference. Let's get to the point though. As a player with no previous experience with you, was I at all justified in FoSing you for putting "looking Town" before "finding Scum" given that that is common scum behavior?

[Alduskkel]

Last time I checked buddying is a scum tell.

Last time I checked, being nice was not the same thing as buddying. Would you rather everyone was always flaming each other or would you use that to make a blanket attack about distancing?

I don't want flaming, but a bunch of random complements makes a bit suspicious of possible buddying.

I actually like this post. It shows that Ald is continuing with the same kind of reads he used before. (he attacked me for the same reason) I completely disagree with him, but it's good that he's keeping the same motivators.

Stop buddying up to me.

P.S.: Insert a "me" between "makes" and "a".

[Alduskkel]

Current thoughts on a sniper wagon?

I've been seriously considering changing to it if we're going to get someone better than Haylen replacing her.

I don't see much as far as the second scum team, but Al looks like a good candidate at this point in the game along with one of Max or SPS.

And why's that?

Suppose that we have lynched Max and he flipped town. Who do you now think is scum? If you are not on the Max wagon, insert the name of the person you are currently voting for instead.

If Haylen's Town, I'd head for Sniper, unless we get cross kills, in which case I'll probably examine those and give those more thought than Sniper. Whoever is then implicated would be my suspect.

Quick Lurker List:
Haylen (obvious reasons right now, but also before she became Mod too)
Sniper
Nikanor
Pulindar

Mod: Requesting forced replacement of Sniper based on violation of site rule, and I quote:

Play to win the game.

Further request: Deadline extension until a replacement for Haylen can be found.

Yet another: Prod Nikanor.

[Alduskkel]

As for why I think [Haylen]'s town? Meta partially, but also because I always think she's town. I've read through over half of her games, and I have yet to believe she's anything but town when reading blind.

You make your Town read sound so reliable.

I still think Sniper is town (only way I see him scum is with SPS who I also think is town so im discounting that).

Why does Sniper have to be paired with SPS?

Puli, about your long rant post, I think that you're being seriously impaired by your tunnelling on Sniper. I've reported him to mith for trolling and I can only hope that something comes of that.

Currently I'm fine with a Nikanor lynch. I'll switch my vote if I have to, since I don't think Max is scum.

[Alduskkel]

I reported Sniper to mith and the response was along the lines of "he isn't enough of a problem to be forcibly replaced out yet."

[Alduskkel]

Unvote, Vote: Sniper

. Been there, posted that. Also, I don't think Max is scum.

4 - Max - Steam-Powered Shovel, Furry, Nikanor, Sniper
3 - Sniper - Pulindar, Haylen, Alduskkel
2 - Nikanor - Slaxx, SFG
1 - Alduskkel - Max

[Alduskkel]

Sniper, I'm a Cop with a guilty on you, and I'm sanity confirmed. Quick, vote for yourself!

[Alduskkel]

Hey, SPS, I see you lurking there. Planning on posting something?

[Alduskkel]

Hey Sniper, I'm a sanity-confirmed Cop with a guilty on you. Vote for yourself.

[Alduskkel]

God I knew this would happen. Stupid site.

[Alduskkel]

Sniper keeps voting with whoever claims to be a Cop.

Deadline is today but...

Mod, please extend the deadline on the basis that DeathNote can't possibly do anything useful in 24 hours in a 42 page game.

[Alduskkel]

EBWOP:

Mod, please extend the deadline on the basis that DeathNote can't possibly do anything useful in 24 hours in a 42 page game.

[Alduskkel]

Unvote, Vote: Nikanor

.

[Alduskkel]

I'm a bit unsettled by the fact that Nikanor is lurking even when (s)he's up for a lynch.

[Alduskkel]

Vote: Sniper

. Nikanor's definitely defended him before. That and other things I've mentioned.

I'm hopefully going to do (or at least work on) a reread/skimming looking for Nikanor connections. For all of you who are trying to figure out whether we should be lynching Rebels or Arkons, well, I'll just settle for lynching any scum at all. The remaining Rebel might become clear if we just do some hunting. If anyone has any good theories for Arkon scum though, I'll hear them, I just think they're less likely to be caught at the moment.

[Alduskkel]

P.S. What is the case on SPS again?

[Alduskkel]

I think we have a lot less control over which scum type we're going to lynch than you all think. About the only control we have is whether or not we're looking for Nikanor connections, which should increase our chances of hitting scum A (rebels). We have no other control aside from that.

Personally, I'd PREFER to lynch scum B (arkons) since then we can hope for cross kills. On the other hand I think we have a better chance of lynching the remaining scum A by supplementing our suspicions with Nikanor links. It's a toss-up really, but like I've said before, I'd prefer to just lynch any scum at all and not worry so much about the type.

[Alduskkel]

Was gonna post but my browser froze and it's gone...

[Alduskkel]

No, I mean, I was doing the PBPA but that gets really tedious so I goofed off from it and then it froze.

[Alduskkel]

This game has Town metas on me and Deathnote, and is only 23 pages long, and fairly recent. May be a useful read for the meta-inclined.

Currently I think it is too early to say if Deathnote's meta is matching up. I'd say he's likely scum though, mostly because he replaced Haylen.

I'd rather not lynch anyone until I've reread though, so I'll keep my vote where it is ATM.

[Alduskkel]

By the way, I highly recommend reading the quicktopics in that game, especially the one between me and Kast. Otherwise some of my later actions may not make much sense.

[Alduskkel]

Sorry, spent half of today working on a Health class project. (Not an exaggeration). I promise to post something tomorrow, regardless of whether I ever reread the game.

[Alduskkel]

So, scum:
DeathNote: Look at his and Haylen's contributions to this game. Especially Haylen. Does anyone really see much substance here? I could forgive it if it was just DeathNote. Having played with him, I know that his current play style isn't really that different. Haylen has meta too, but the fact that she obviously put time into this game (re: the charts) but still didn't actually give us much to work with is active lurking at its "finest."

DeathNote should be Scum B, and that's because...

Sniper: is Scum A. I'm quite sure Nik defended him at some points, and Sniper is also an active lurker. From what I reread before the part of my PBPA I was working on earlier was eaten, Pulindar is another possible Scum A if Sniper isn't. I'll (hopefully) get around to rereading and coming to a firm conclusion which one it is.

I haven't looked for links to DeathNote to figure out the second scum B. I'm pretty sure there are a few players out there who called Haylen town for no reason at all though. Maybe one of them.

With regards to Furry: Being wrong isn't a scum tell, and it doesn't mean that you shouldn't listen to that persons arguments.

Also, I know NK speculation isn't all nonsense, but too much of the Furry case is based on it for my liking.

[Alduskkel]

I followed the Nikanor case because Nikanor was a lurker and a Sniper-defender.

Also, I am talking about the case for Furry being scum.

[Alduskkel]

Town do that as well.

Slaxx your most recent post seems very townie to me, that one word lol.

Regardless of whether or not Town ever rush the day, I don't think it's pro-Town.

Also, I don't see how asking "Why?" is a huge town tell. It's just curiosity.

[Alduskkel]

Simulposted with Slaxx; didn't notice his post.

Sniper or Pulindar is/was scum with Nikanor.

Deathnote is part of mafia B.

Deathnote is not Nikanor's partner.

Pulidar is part of mafia B.

It is possible for Pulindar and Deathnote to be partners.

1. Strongly Agree (Sniper, with Pulindar as a fairly distant second)
2. Agree (Could be Mafia A, we could be wrong, but he's probably Mafia B)
3. Agree (Since Sniper is probably Nikanor's partner, DN isn't, but I won't rule out the possibiltiy)
4. Disagree (Pulindar is Mafia A if anything)
5. Disagree (Not out of the question, but unlikely)

[Alduskkel]

Ugh. Walls. I've only read up to 1260, will try to muster up the courage to read more. Reason for my lurking is that I'm bored with this game. No offense to anyone, but imo we're not really going anywhere at the moment.

Ironically, I usually feel more energetic about a game after I do a PBPA but I'm not actually energetic enough to do a PBPA...

Although we'll see about the weekend.

I'll see about reading 1260 and after and I'll respond to everything I reasonably can, in the interest of producing content (any content).

[Alduskkel]

Okay this post is long but about half of it is quotes. Sometimes I wonder if I influenced Mastin or he influenced me... probably both (FYI I was in his first game... replaced in for him as scum). Although I do owe you guys some content, I know.

Also, this post may come across as anti-Pulindar. This is just because I'm only quoting things I have a problem with -- there's no point in me quoting something and saying, "This is pro-Town." or, "I APPROVE OF THIS STATEMENT."

DN

Initial Thoughts: Thought Haylen was town, she was playing her town meta. DN is also playing his town meta... The problem is I don't like DN's way of doing it. I guess it's true that I always think Haylen's town, so... who knows. If scum I think he's probably partners with Ald. Though I guess with his inactivity he might take sniper's spot??

You think I'm scum with him? I've been saying Haylen/DN are scum for a while now. Though from what I've seen in this thread recently (I'm self-centered and scanned around for my name) someone has raised the concern that I'm not actually pushing a DN lynch. Well, I'm sure I'll get to that.

Initial Thoughts Everyone knows I think he's Nika's partner. My big thing on sniper is I think he's trying to give everyone null reads on purpose. I view it as a different way to active lurk, and concidering how well it's worked...

People are absolutely terrible about people like Sniper. "Oh, he's just newb Town..." when in fact you can't get any better than a null read, and if anything it should be a scum read. But enough ranting.

There is a lot of subtle pushing of the Max wagon, although he has set himself up in a position where he can not hop the Max wagon too easily due to past comments, and that the person he is tunneling on happens to be Sniper, who is voting Max.

How do you figure that those two quotes are pushing a Max lynch? I’m saying I’m accepting of a Max lynch. I was accepting of it, but I also said I wasn’t convinced it was true. AND I said I wanted a sniper lynch. my acceptance was that you people weren’t all scum.

Well, first of all let's find those two quotes.

That's all scummish behavior in my book, but later he's gotten better, and moved more in line with town behavior. I could condone a lynch of max (only if sniper is not the choice) but I won't get on the wagon.

Max is the one who will die as of this point. I can accept that, though I'm not convinced in any way that he's scum, I realize that no matter what he will be a distraction if this game gets to LyLo

It sounds a lot like, "Hey guys, I don't think Max is scum, but you can go ahead and lynch him." Which does sound scummy.

Later [Furry] said I boxed myself in by saying Max and Nika were the same [i.e., not scum] in my book. How in the world do you figure that is a box in? I could have voted either Nika or Max. I put myself in a position, where if I wanted to, I could have leaned either way.

Well, if you suddenly switched to someone that you weren't convinced was scum that would draw attention, right?

Well im going to go against the popular opinion and say that I think Pulindar is Niks partner

On top of all that, he is now calling for a lynch of scum B, when a lynch of scum A is going to put him right in the crosshairs of the town. He says its due to chances of scum cross killing, but in this situation a lynch of scum B will result in both scum shooting for town, probably hitting, and we are still in basically lylo for the rest of the game. It can even create a very worst case scenario in such that we lose three more town, almost making it unwinable.

Thus, if it is against popular opinion that I am Scum A. It goes to show that my asking for a scum B lynch for the day means that I am actually putting myself up on the block as a possibility, because at this point, my being a partner with Nika had not been explored. So, your last quote argues against your first.

I don't follow you, Pulindar. Could you explain this?

Furry ignored my defense, and just keeps repeating that I must be scum. These are the exact same actions Furry preformed before when attacking Max, and Nico.

Could you back the second sentence up?

Killing SFG would have been better, because as things stand SFG is the last person to get lynched.

Personally I think the scum teams are trying to cross kill at this point, so that's why players who most people agree are Town are still here.

I always think of bussing and distancing and even I don’t think SFG is reasonably scum. Looking at what SFG has said, and how she has to go back to thinking of it differently for scum has proven that.

My mind must be fried right now or something, because I can't figure out what you're saying here.

I also find it funny that you [Furry] said you completely disagreed with all of SFG’s points. Only because I completely agreed with her points.

How do you know that Furry disagreed because you agreed?

1266 reminded me of all the buddying between Pulindar and Nikanor... I really should reread Day 1 at least. *sigh*

174: I wasn’t tunneling you, though I was tunneling sniper. also note

174 isn't one of your posts Pulindar, it's a Nikanor post.

(Funny thing: I iso'd Pulindar to make sure he didn't have 174+ posts in case that's what he was referring to.)

WAIT NO IT'S A SLAXX ISO POST. DEAR LORD YOU HAVE SO MANY POSTS SLAXX.

[Slaxx, I assume] 207: I was just unlucky  who knew. It was a flavor thing and I just gleaned it from the flavor. I was messing around wtf… BTW I was wrong, found my post about asking to be partners with Haylen, I didn’t ask for rebel I just asked to be partners. I had thought rebel cause Slaxx and I talked about the flavor a bit earlier, but didn’t ask for it.

Are you sure that Slaxx iso 207 is the correct post here? I think you mean 208.

Now, call it paranoia, but I get an overall buddying feel from Pulindar's 1266. Read it again if you have to; note how he's constantly comparing him to SPS and Furry in a positive manner. Pulindar likes Slaxx's questions, likes that he is responding to him, etc... if Slaxx is the main attacker (Pulindar's words) then of all the people to buddy up to he's probably the best. Also, Slaxx has a lot of influence on the town, for better or for worse. Meanwhile, SPS is under suspicion by some and Furry has been wrong all game so Pulindar keeps trying to basically brush him aside.

I think you need to consider that as far as I'm concerned, Alduskkel, Slaxx and SFG are cleared.

I have no commentary, but it's very important that we keep this statement in mind, at least as long as SPS is alive. I've enlarged it so that it's easy to pick out in the mess that is this post.

Puli is officially obvtown now. Still catching up on reading but Puli is town.

Uhh... you haven't even read everything and you consider someone obvTown?

Too many strong Town reads are going on here. If we get too many on one person and they're scum... well then.

Thanks for the support SFG.

More buddying. At this point Pulindar has buddied to Slaxx and SFG -- critical players right now, just based on # of posts and length.

The fact that Max got killed by A

actually makes the four of the Max voters very unlikely A. I would say there is a high chance that BOTH scum B are in [Slaxx/Adul/DN], confirming Max as town makes town who decides to go for A ignore these three players, there is your motivation right there.

Okay the bolded part really sounds like a scum slip. How do you know Scum A killed Max?

I dunno. I don't set much by Night Kills myself, I talk about them and discuss possibilities, but ... eh. I dunno I see it as everyone finds different things scummy. SFG obviously has had some pretty good reads so far so the NK analysis works for her. I'll read through it, but I just see so many other possibilities than the ones she suggests that I don't really understand how she narrows it down. Does that make sense?

Still, I realize it's her reasoning and she has been pretty spot on so far and this is not a game where scum naturally know all alignments so... I guess it shows that she really does glean who scum is from it. So yeah, I trust SFG but don't understand how she gets to her conclusions.

Don't blindly follow people. That's really all there is to say on the matter.

The only people who aren't wagoning on DN are DN himself and Ald

This doesn't make any sense. Even if SFG is not listing himself, that's still 5 people left who are implied to be wagoning on DN -- and it's 5 to lynch.

SFG, I'm not voting for DN because I don't want the day to end too soon. I'm hoping to get some more work done on this game during the weekend, maybe even reread and do a PBPA.

@SFG - Would you rather Adul wagon? Im more then happy to go along with that wagon today as well.

This sounds really sheepish.

How does confirming Max-town cause Slaxx/Me/DN to be ignored?

I can see an Al/Haylen scumpair.

Comedic gold. I hope you're prepared to back this up.

By the way, in this game I also got bored and started being lurkish after too many walls of text were thrown around. I believe I even wanted to reread in this one too but kept putting it off.

If you value your sanity, you'll skip the walls of text between me and Mastin. Come to think of it, that's why I didn't want to reread in that game.

[Alduskkel]

Also, this post may come across as anti-Pulindar. This is just because I'm only quoting things I have a problem with -- there's no point in me quoting something and saying, "This is pro-Town." or, "I APPROVE OF THIS STATEMENT."

Although if it wasn't clear, I am more wary of Pulindar now. Still think it's DN-? and Sniper-Nikanor though.

[Alduskkel]

Personally I think the scum teams are trying to cross kill at this point, so that's why players who most people agree are Town are still here.

Do you really think that after that Nika lynch, Max could possibly have been conceived of as Scum A? I don't think there was a snowball's chance in hell that anyone who was paying attention to the game would reach that conclusion, therefore this statement of yours leaves us with an entirely unexplained kill by Scum B.

Considering the number of people who were voting for Max, I would not be surprised if Scum A thought Max was Scum B.

Uhh... you haven't even read everything and you consider someone obvTown?

Considering that I'd read his full posts and the ones I hadn't were by, if I recall correctly, modHaylen, Slaxx, and SPS...yes, I do.

Well, thanks for clarifying then... your previous statement sounded like you had just taken a half look or something.

More buddying. At this point Pulindar has buddied to Slaxx and SFG -- critical players right now, just based on # of posts and length.

Right now, it looks like you ran out of good points against Puli and decided to go back to your old one that since Puli is not an asshole, he must be scum.
I apologize to people as town all the time, I also see merit in peoples' posts even when I disagree with them all the time although I tend to be more focused on tearing apart their mistakes so that they can refine their reasoning. I promise you, I don't metamorphosize into scum every time I say something nice.

"Ran out of good points against Puli"? So, my previous points WERE good by your implied admission. Noted. Anyway, consider just how powerful Pulindar-scum would stand if he had you and Slaxx backing him up.

Okay the bolded part really sounds like a scum slip. How do you know Scum A killed Max?

Consensus at this point is that either Scum A clear forgot to kill or BOTH scumteams targeted Max. Furry has made it clear that he believes the second option, therefore Scum A would have killed Max, as would Scum B.

I don't really believe in NK analysis much. I see what you're saying about Furry though.

This doesn't make any sense. Even if SFG is not listing himself, that's still 5 people left who are implied to be wagoning on DN -- and it's 5 to lynch.

I had myself as an implied hammer refraining from voting until I'd done all the analysis I want to. As you would know HAD YOU BOTHERED TO READ THE GAME. Or did you not see when I clearly stated that I was going to temporarily unvote to make sure that DN didn't get lynched before I'd utilized the time to analyze? That combined with the fact that DN was at basically l-0 with Sniper, SPS, Slaxx, and Furry stating intention to vote, along with my also stating intention to vote, which leaves you, Puli, and DN as not being on the wagon...okay you're right, but I'm still convinced that Puli is town because the only possible Puli partner is Sniper and Sniper is Scum A.

More to come when I read the next page

okay you're right

Thanks, although you didn't have to bury it in a bunch of text that makes it seem like you're trying to say I'm wrong anyway.

It sounds a lot like, "Hey guys, I don't think Max is scum, but you can go ahead and lynch him." Which does sound scummy.

Eh... I see what you're saying, but I disagree. It's true I was saying, Max isn't scum, but feel free to lynch him. I also said I feel the same way towards max that I do towards Nika, and That as I only had two people I even suspected then there were obviously people I didn't think were scum who were. Really though I saw that Max had done some scummy things so I was saying that I was not condemning people for thinking he was scummy. There are times where I do condemn people based on their votes. I was telling people that voting Max would not make me do that.

I don't agree with it either, I was just defending Furry's position, explaining how he could have come to that conclusion.

Furry ignored my defense, and just keeps repeating that I must be scum. These are the exact same actions Furry preformed before when attacking Max, and Nico.

Could you back the second sentence up?

Eh.. that'll take a good bit of ISOing and quoting. I'll do it, but a bit later, ok? Please remind me if I forget.

Quoting this because I'll probably forget too if I don't put it in this post too.

Unvote, Vote: DeathNote

. Furry, just because it seems that someone has been abandoned by everyone (and thus scum aren't helping them) doesn't mean there isn't bussing going on or something.

Two votes on me without explanation is getting ridiculous. Pardon me, but since when are me and Slaxx a scum team? What links between us are there? What individual scum tells are there? I haven't seen much in the way of cases being brought up.

[Alduskkel]

Anyway, consider just how powerful Pulindar-scum would stand if he had you and Slaxx backing him up.

Important point. It gives Pulindar a motive.

SFG, I don't have the time for meta unless it's fast. Plus, ongoing games should not be brought up.

But then why would Scum B have killed Max? Or do you think Scum B nokilled?

I doubt Scum B no killed unless they were framing someone. I didn't get the Max suspicions either, but obviously he was suspicious to some so if Scum B were looking to off Scum A and they thought Max was Scum A then they'd kill him, right?

[Alduskkel]

Link. Contains Town-me and Town-DeathNote. Just iso'd DN, seems really similar to this game actually.

Unvote

. Anyone have Scum-DN meta?

I didn't push a Haylen case yesterday because IIRC I wanted a Sniper lynch more than a Haylen lynch.

Furry, I don't think you can base a whole scum team theory off of one night kill. If me and Slaxx are scum, why don't you go and iso one or both of us with your newly found "knowledge" to verify your suspicions?

[Alduskkel]

Ald, why were you voting for DN when you already had access to this game of yours where he was town and played similarly, if it could persuade you to unvote now? You gained 0 new information but somehow it was enough to convince you.

I'm very skeptical.

vote: Ald

I forgot about how DN played in the game I was in with him. So yeah, I could have read it before I voted for him and then I might not have voted for him.

Also, I'm think you already voted for me.

[Alduskkel]

EBWOP: "I think..." Reason for the typo was that it was originally "I'm pretty sure..."

[Alduskkel]

What is my scum motive for voting for DN and then unvoting?

Motive for what Ald? I wouldn't want to be lynched no matter what my alignment?? I must be reading something wrong.

If you had Slaxx and SFG behind you then you'd have a solid hold over the Town, more than if you had any other 2 players behind you.

[Alduskkel]

What is my scum motive for voting for DN and then unvoting?

Didn't ask this so you could ignore it, SFG.

[Alduskkel]

You tried to push a mislynch, and then the town realized it was a mislynch, so you are now trying to sneak your vote off of him while you try to find a new mislynch to push.

So clearly the Town realized it was a mislynch between posts... 1319 and 1324. Wherein only you and Furry posted (and me). You two are neither the entire Town nor did you invalidate my DN suspicions.

Some key points against adul

1) Behavior at end of D1 suggested voting was utility lynch as opposed to scumhunting.

Though I'm very upset with Haylen and Nicodemus's (active, in the case of Haylen) lurking, I'm willing to see their play on Day 2. I don't see Sniper improving anytime soon though.

Like most of the posts, it seems that Adul just wants sniper dead to get him out of the way

No shit. I desperately wanted him out of the way. I still do. I don't know if you support policy lynches, but I do, and we don't agree that doesn't make me scummy. Also, Sniper was scummy anyway. I can reiterate points I've said before... or you can do some homework and find them yourself. Pulindar has provided evidence against Sniper as well.

also is setting himself up for a town [Nicodemus] and prob-town [Haylen] wagon the next day.

Okay, Haylen/DN is not prob-town. I'd put him as neutral right now, and Haylen was DEFINITELY scummy due to active lurking. As for Nicodemus, you have to view this with the knowledge of Day 1. Namely, there was none, at least there were no flips. A bunch of people thought Nicodemus were scum. That's why he was lynched. Do you suspect those people?

(7) Nicodemus: Nikanor, Steam-Powered Shovel, Sniper, Haylen, Furry, Max, Slaxx

That's a lot of people to suspect! In fact, it includes 5/8 of all live players, including yourself.

[2) Early D2 again centers around policy as opposed to scumhunting.

Haylen, it's Day 2 and the Scummies are over. I DEMAND CONTENT. Until then, Vote: Haylen.
---
I'm also curious to see whether Sniper will be replaced.

Odd that haylen is chosen over sniper, but again we are paying attention to lurkers.

Haylen was chosen because, as I said, I wanted to see improvement in play from Haylen as IIRC she said she played better later on and the scummies were over.

3) Insistant lurker hunting - I have zero clue if this is meta, but you have done nothing but try and get the lurkers lynched as opposed to actually forming a case.

Accusing someone of lurking is a case.

4) Adul day three fits scum B motive.

I'm hopefully going to do (or at least work on) a reread/skimming looking for Nikanor connections. For all of you who are trying to figure out whether we should be lynching Rebels or Arkons, well, I'll just settle for lynching any scum at all. The remaining Rebel might become clear if we just do some hunting. If anyone has any good theories for Arkon scum though, I'll hear them, I just think they're less likely to be caught at the moment.

This is very likely coming from scum B. Remember what I said about if we decide to lynch A there are going to be a couple people who we dont pay any attention too? Remember who is one of those people? Yep.

Yeah I don't really follow you at all. How is the quoted post relevant?

Personally, I'd PREFER to lynch scum B (arkons) since then we can hope for cross kills. On the other hand I think we have a better chance of lynching the remaining scum A by supplementing our suspicions with Nikanor links. It's a toss-up really, but like I've said before, I'd prefer to just lynch any scum at all and not worry so much about the type.

Suddenly there is a clear interest in B lynch, even though it continues to be stressed that an A lynch is the safer option of the two.

Scum A is not "safer." It's easier. And we SHOULD lynch Scum B today, if we can. Do you disagree? If we lynch Scum A today we're headed for MYLO tomorrow.

DeathNote: Look at his and Haylen's contributions to this game. Especially Haylen. Does anyone really see much substance here? I could forgive it if it was just DeathNote. Having played with him, I know that his current play style isn't really that different. Haylen has meta too, but the fact that she obviously put time into this game (re: the charts) but still didn't actually give us much to work with is active lurking at its "finest."

Ultra weak for this late in a game. The case literally is "not contributing, active lurking". Thats it, in a position where if there isnt a scum lynch town cant win without help from scum. This does not fit the bill of how town would go about it.

But lack of content late in the game is even worse. It means that you've squandered a bunch of posts but still haven't given much analysis, and haven't given others something to analyze. Just as an example: Has Sniper ever analyzed anything? Have we ever analyzed him? We never quote Sniper and argue with him. We just let him be, annoyingly enough.

Right now adul is firmly planted on the DN wagon

Right now? No. You should know that.

Im done moving my vote.

Translation: I've decided to retunnel on Alduskkel because Pulindar posted too many walls at me.

[Alduskkel]

Sorry SPS, but that vote count is wrong. I believe DeathNote is actually up for a lynch -- Sniper's voting for him.

[Alduskkel]

Vote: DeathNote.

I have to do this before he votes for me; I don't know about him, but I know I'm Town, and Haylen was scummy, and DN was kind of neutral... still would prefer Sniper, just for the record. He's the only one I'm really sure of right now.

[Alduskkel]

Triple post but: Pulindar, don't vote for me before we can talk it over. I'd like at least one post warning me that you're going to vote for me -- just so I'm clear on why you think I'm scum (if you do indeed decide you want to vote for me).

[Alduskkel]

Sniper, Furry is just manipulating you for his own purposes.

The funny part is that it's true.

[Alduskkel]

I never said DN was probably Town. The town meta upgraded him to about null.

I do not think I am "distracting" the Town. SFG and Furry are not the Town, as I've said before. You guys just need to open your eyes.

Normally I do not lurker hunt so much, but we've had a lot of persistent lurkers in this game, so it's really been bothering me.

Anyway, if I went along with my mislynch and two more townies get killed at night then it's curtains for the Town. I consider this possible LYLO today. I'm not going to take the risk and let myself die.

I don't think that I have been pushing lynches based ONLY on policy. Lurking is a scum tell, and the people I've been pushing to be lynched are lurkers.

[Alduskkel]

If you had Slaxx and SFG behind you then you'd have a solid hold over the Town, more than if you had any other 2 players behind you.

Ok, I can see that. What I don't see is how that is an argument that I'm scum. No matter my alignment I want to convince people I am town, correct? If I'm scum I do it to hide and survive. If I'm town I do it to survive and not cause a mislynch.

My point is that you

could

be scum buddying up to key town members (or even opposite scum team members, hypothetically) to gain a hold over the Town.

I'd be willing to change my vote to Sniper, but I'm not convinced anyone else has the guts to vote for him too.

[Alduskkel]

Unvote, Vote: Sniper

Pulindar, why do you suspect me? I've been defending against everything.

@SFG: Do what you gotta do.

[Alduskkel]

No one unvote. We're being duped.

unvote

We have a week. Lets hunt for B a bit more.

You already knew we had extra time in the first quote. What on earth changed your mind in the second one?

[Alduskkel]

No-voters should do something to kick the game's activity up. Namely, vote.

[Alduskkel]

Hey, Slaxx and SFG, you can't just vote for me without saying why. I daresay that's as bad as Sniper does often, possibly worse since most everyone seems to give you guys more credit than anyone gives to Sniper. At least Furry is apparently working on it.

That said, I'd like to note that no one really has presented a case on me, yet I'm in the lead for being lynched right now. It's absolute nonsense...

Furry, what makes you think I'm not possibly scum with DN and Sniper? I could be bussing them for some reason (though that's not my scum style, especially with a killing group out there).

[Alduskkel]

:/ man it looks like everyone in the world dropped off the surface of the universe at the same time. I have a presentation and two essays due tomorrow, after that I should be able to spare a minor amount of time before my other two essays are due and I have to study for juries and finals.

No-voters should do something to kick the game's activity up. Namely, vote.

vote: Ald

Hey, Slaxx and SFG, you can't just vote for me without saying why.

urdoinitrong.
I mean seriously, I SPECIFICALLY SAY "I don't have time to explain diddly squat" you say "vote anyways and maybe stuff will happen" I vote and you say "no you can't vote." CUS THAT MAKES A TON OF SENSE GUIZE

I'm saying that it's highly illogical to vote for me when you haven't responded to my defense.

That said, I'd like to note that no one really has presented a case on me, yet I'm in the lead for being lynched right now. It's absolute nonsense...

If there is no case, what is this about?

I've responded to ALL of those accusations, and if you still think I'm scum after that then you need to explain why, and failing to do so is ridiculous.

Also I didn't make this point yet but blatant misrepresentation is scummy.

It was a misunderstanding. At that time I was out of touch with the game, and that's what that post shows.

Best part is that I haven't said Furry is scum, and I have specifically said that just because he has been wrong doesn't mean he will continue to be wrong (though he is continuing to be wrong currently). So what's my motive for misrepresenting Furry?

[Alduskkel]

By the way, am I the only one who thinks that Slaxx and SFG are voting for me because they don't have the time to actually investigate real suspects? I don't blame them for being busy IRL, but I think it's severely affecting their gameplay.

[Alduskkel]

SPS, why are you buddying up to me so much? It's getting on my nerves.

[Alduskkel]

Furry, what makes you think I'm not possibly scum with DN and Sniper? I could be bussing them for some reason (though that's not my scum style, especially with a killing group out there).

This I can answer though. You have been ignoring cases based on scummy behavior for the most part in the place of policy lynches. I dont see you bussing your partner on policy when there are quite a few other options.

Active lurking is scummy behavior.

Reckoner: Here's a way, way way way better summary than what SFG gave you. Day 1, competing lynches were mainly between Sniper (you) and Nico. Nico gets lynched, flips Town, we get some odd Night Kills that make it look like Scum were trying to cross kill. Day 2, we lynch Nikanor for lurking, he flips Scum A. As it stands Sniper (again, you), Pulindar, and maybe SPS (I don't really get the case on him, no one is voting for him so whatever) are probably Scum A (only one of them, obviously). Max alone gets killed Night 2, much speculation abounds as to whether or not someone no killed (intentionally or not) or if both scum targeted Max. Currently, DN is under some suspicion for Haylen and his lurking (and FYI Haylen actually made GRAPHS for this game but still failed to come up with content). DN has been somewhat let off the hook for meta, but for me that just puts him down as null. Sniper is still under suspicion for consistently failing to do anything useful, as well as having incriminating interactions with Nikanor (Nikanor defended Sniper). I am inexplicably under pressure based on gut and cases that I've responded to, and no one has a good rebuttal it seems.

That's not the full story, but there it is.

P.S.: People, stop trying to clear someone as Town. It's just setting yourself up to fall into those people's hands if they're scum.

[Alduskkel]

Bleh I kinda was hoping for a modkill.

Is that bad?

No.

This extremely informative post brought to you by Alduskkel, Inc.

[Alduskkel]

Tired right now, have a bit of a headache. Any post I make now will be kind of lame. I'll get to this game soon, promise (unless a bunch of walls pop up, but I hope not).

I can answer something right now though -- I have a slight Town read on SPS. Basically I don't buy the case on him, and I haven't really spotted anything significant from him, although speaking of which I'd like to see more content from him (yes this is a bit hypocritical coming from me).

[Alduskkel]

Do you support a policy lynch of [Reckoner] at this point in time? If you still want that lynch reitterating the points would be nice.

Probably not a policy lynch. As it stands I think I will

Unvote

.

also is setting himself up for a town [Nicodemus] and prob-town [Haylen] wagon the next day.

Okay, Haylen/DN is not prob-town. I'd put him as neutral right now, and Haylen was DEFINITELY scummy due to active lurking. As for Nicodemus, you have to view this with the knowledge of Day 1. Namely, there was none, at least there were no flips. A bunch of people thought Nicodemus were scum. That's why he was lynched. Do you suspect those people?

To an extent, yes it is a tell on the wagon. It doesnt detract from the fact that you were visably setting up for getting on two wagons, one which is proven town and one which is my second strongest town read at this juncture.

I don't see how you can call DN your second strongest town read. And yes, I was basically fueling Nico/Haylen lynches. That's a fact, I can't dispute that. I've given my town spin to it, and if you think it's unlikely I'd like to hear why.

[2) Early D2 again centers around policy as opposed to scumhunting.

Haylen, it's Day 2 and the Scummies are over. I DEMAND CONTENT. Until then, Vote: Haylen.
---
I'm also curious to see whether Sniper will be replaced.

Odd that haylen is chosen over sniper, but again we are paying attention to lurkers.

Haylen was chosen because, as I said, I wanted to see improvement in play from Haylen as IIRC she said she played better later on and the scummies were over.

So it was a pressure vote? Sniper was the "better" lynch?

It was definitely for pressure. Didn't work though, and unfortunately some people are just very annoying about never posting much content. I think you have to try, though.

3) Insistant lurker hunting - I have zero clue if this is meta, but you have done nothing but try and get the lurkers lynched as opposed to actually forming a case.

Accusing someone of lurking is a case.

More of a supplement then anything else really, some players will always lurk, although on some occasions it is a tell. Is it meta for you to lurker hunt?

Well, let's dig around a bit. It's been a while since I've been Town in a normal game, but here are some examples:

Unvote, Vote: VertFire. Of all the players you are contributing the least to discussion (purple princess is excused because she can't be doing it as a strategy; she is getting replaced after all) and you're setting yourself up to pile onto YankCane, who probably just can't express himself that well.

In short, I think VertFire is lurker scum who's poised to bandwagon.

I'd like to see how he's going to follow up on 139 though.

(Vertfire was Town).

Vote: YankCane151. He basically claimed Vanilla, that's all I was waiting for. He's not contributing, and that's anti-Town.

Kind of similar to what was happening with Sniper IIRC, although YankCane was better. He was also Town, though.

Socrates: I like his posts, but he's also lurking.

Zhero: Like Socrates except I don't like his posts as much. They're less substantial IMO.

Socrates and Zhero were the scum team.

Aaaaand Snow_Bunny apparently browsed this very section of the forum and then decided to NOT POST because she is not in the active users list.

FoS: Snow_Bunny.

Active lurker hunting. Snow_Bunny was Town.

However, I will Vote: gocanucksgo for what d3x said in the post right above this (lurking and bandwagoning). I'd much rather off inactive players than active players, as long as they have similar amounts of scumminess. Finally, FoS: Zeofar for lurking. Consider this removed if he gets replaced.

gocanucksgo was scum, Zeofar was Town.

That should be plenty! I have a whole wiki entry with links to all of my games, feel free to go crazy with the meta.

Come to think of it, not a terrible hit rate. That's what, 3/7 scum there accused of lurking? Small sample size but that's kind of interesting.

There are other ways to catch lurker scum, like ties to dead scum, and PoE of other players.

Well, right now I think trying to tie people to Nikanor will result in Sniper or Pulindar coming up as scum, at least that's my guess. I don't really feel comfortable crossing people out to do PoE right now.
---
Right now SFG and DN really need to explain why my defense is inadequate. DN hasn't even accused me of anything.

[Alduskkel]

We all know how this is gonna go down. Pulindar will vote for me based only on gut and the fact that he doesn't want to be lynched, and I'll get lynched instead.

Meanwhile, two of my attackers (SFG and Furry) are too damn busy to respond to my defenses in time for them to realize they should unvote, especially SFG. DN is just doing whatever.

[Alduskkel]

Ald I still believe that the only person more likely to be scum is reck and I already discussed why i would prefer your lynch to his. I'm sorry that I'm too busy dying over here to give you a definitive "why" but there isn't anything I can do (other than miss my deadlines for my projects).

Well, I've already defended myself and it is VERY frustrating to see you say, "Well, you're still scum!"

PS - was my predecessor scummy because he was lurky mclurkerson or was he scummy because he played like a fucking idiot?

He was specifically scummy for lurking, that and he just conveniently threw out votes onto whoever he felt like.

Your predecessor was scummy because he is connected to Nikanor aka the dead scum A guy

This too.

People who were/are suspicious of my predecessor: what do you think of my play (in iso) so far, independent of my predecessor's play?

*shrug* I don't think you've given a whole lot yet, I don't really mind, even zwet would have been better than Sniper.

First four posts sling mud on half of the players for "lack of content" and admittedly a sort of decent one at me for worrying about being scummy.

Sling mud? You're going to have to back up that statement or you're the one slinging the mud.

There is a noticable paucity in the number of times that Ald mentions SPS, and most of them involve either defending him, calling him a town read, or in once case, this. It looks somewhat like scum interaction to me, although I'd have to also look at what SPS said about Ald.

Hunting for scum pairs is futile without confirmed scum, and in this case since you're accusing us of being the Scum B team and only Scum A is dead... well then.

I'm having a real problem finding where you decide that Nik is scummy enough to be lynched Day 2; you spent most of the day discussing lynching Sniper and Haylen, and then pop up in the eleventh hour to vote for Nik.

Take it how you will, but my Nikanor vote was consistent with my lurker hunting.

Oh btw, Ald, if activity levels are indicative of scum, lemme go over the total number of posts in each living player-slot, shall I? I'll even arrange them from least activity to greatest activity Very Happy

Sniper/Reck - 43 from Sniper + 15 from Reck = 58 posts
Ald - 87 posts
Puli - 114 posts
horror/Furry - 7 from horror + 110 from Furry = 117 posts
Hay/DN - 104 from Hay before she became mod + 24 from DN = 128 posts
SPS - 130 posts
SFG - 217 posts
Slaxx - 287 posts

Therefore by your own logic, you are the second most likely scum after nearly-confirmed-scum xReck.

SFG, you have no concept of what lurking is. Lurking is not low post numbers. Lurking is lack of content. I do not lack content. So, I'm not lurking.

That's pretty convincing stuff. I too was suspicious of Al/SPS, which is why I asked that question a while back. Neither of them justified their town reads too well.

Summarize the case on SPS then. I can tell you why I don't agree with it. Plus, you don't have to justify Town reads. Town read is the default read. You have to justify

Scum

reads.

Furry: Absolutely nothing to say about all the meta I gave you? Lame.

IT IS MY TOWN META TO LURKER HUNT.

Got it, people???

SFG brings up good points in her points against Al. He has been hypocritical, pushed for policy lynches, pushed on now what I'm beginning to think you guys were right about as a fat mislynch target (Deathnote).

Thank you for contributing absolutely nothing to the case against me. I haven't been hypocritical, pushing for policy lynches isn't a scum tell, and DeathNote is at best a null read.

Feels like I'm pushing against a brick wall here. I've responded to all the accusations against me, what else is there to do?[/quote]

[Alduskkel]

Ald, do you believe scum or newb/badtown are more likely to lurk?

It requires analysis -- is the person lurking as a strategy or because they are genuinely inactive? If they get prodded a lot, or are replaced then you can let them off the hook. If they just barely escape prods and don't post any content (as with Sniper) then they're scummy, because I believe it was a strategy from him.

Note that Sniper was force-replaced, not inactivity-replaced.

[Alduskkel]

Just got time to look at it a bit.

You do seem to be concentrating a little more on lurkers then normal in this game. Not sure what type, if any, of a tell this is, but it is somewhat to town meta.

Okay... do you have a case at this point, then? If so, what points are left that I haven't responded to adequately (in your opinion, at least)?

Also im still trying to figure something out. Something recently just really started bugging me, like really really bugging me.

Not a lot of time left Furry, you're going to have to tell us what this is about soon, unless for some reason you want to leave it for Day 4... and I can think of no good reason to withhold information from the Town.

[Alduskkel]

Just got time to look at it a bit.

You do seem to be concentrating a little more on lurkers then normal in this game. Not sure what type, if any, of a tell this is, but it is somewhat to town meta.

Okay... do you have a case at this point, then? If so, what points are left that I haven't responded to adequately (in your opinion, at least)?

Ive seen the responses and it shakes confidence a bit, but I dont see a much better case.

...

What is wrong with my responses? They're enough to shake your confidence but not make you realize you're wrong? If my defense is bad, you should say why and it shouldn't shake your confidence. If my defense is good you should unvote.

Is there some sort of gray area I'm missing here?

Al, I dont have the time nor the energy to make a full written up case on you. Maybe you consider a cop out, IDC. I just don't.

Translation: "Whatever Alduskkel, I just think you're scum, I don't have to given any original opinions of my own or explain myself to the Town!"

[Alduskkel]

Yeah pretty much, except notice my vote isnt on you, its on Pulindar, so why do you even care?

I care because you are obviously still suspicious of me for reasons I cannot fathom.

That and I'm pretty frustrated with everyone who suspects me without addressing my defense.

Furry's offline right now... hope he logs on soon.

[Alduskkel]

The Final Day 1 Vote Count

(7)

Nicodemus

:

Nikanor

, Steam-Powered Shovel, Sniper, Haylen, Furry,

Max, Slaxx

(5) Sniper:

Pulindar

,

Alduskkel, SFG, LordChronos, Nicodemus

(1)

SFG

:

Dragonfly13

Final Day 2 Vote Count

(5)

Nikanor

:

Slaxx, SFG, Max, Alduskkel

, DeathNote
(4)

Max

: Steam-Powered Shovel, Furry,

Nikanor

, Sniper
(1) Sniper:

Pulindar

The Final Day Three Vote Count

(4)

Pulindar

: xRECKONERx, Steam-Powered Shovel,

Slaxx

, Furry
(2)

Alduskkel

:

SFG

, DeathNote

Not Voting:

Pulindar

,

Alduskkel

Town in green (from my perspective, I'm obvTown), Scum A in red, Scum B in orange, unknowns in black.

Some thoughts:
Sniper and Reckoner have, interestingly, never been voted for by anyone who is even possibly Scum A. Based on the Day 2 count, DN is probably not Scum A. Furry is probably not Scum B because he tunneled on Pulindar a ton. Pulindar's tunneling on Sniper could have easily been bussing -- look at how it never really went anywhere. Furry's effort into trying to take down Pulindar is different though. Also, Furry could have taken me out in lieu of Pulindar yesterday, but didn't. Anyway, SPS and Sniper voted together twice, making it difficult to discern between the two based just off these vote counts. SPS, Furry, and Sniper all participated in trying to save Nikanor... oh well.

Furry is not Scum B, based on how aggressively he tunneled on Pulindar. DN is not Scum A based on the above day 2 vote count.

So, let's take a look at possible scum pairs...
Furry - Nikanor
SPS - Nikanor
SPS - Pulindar
Reckoner - Nikanor
Reckoner - Pulindar
DeathNote - Pulindar

So what I'm going to do is start trying to cross pairs/people off. If you want my current opinion, I'd say it's probably DN-Puli and Reckoner - Nik. However, while I wouldn't be uncomfortable about putting Furry on my probably Town list, the possibility of SPS scum is messing me up a bit. Best thing for me to do right now is iso/skim Nikanor and Pulindar. I'd suggest everyone do the same.

[Alduskkel]

Sniper and Reckoner have, interestingly, never been voted for by anyone who is even possibly Scum A.

Oh man this is actually a really terrible statement. Sniper and Reckoner have never had votes on them from people who are even possibly Scum A at the end of Day rounds.

Obviously Sniper and Reckoner have been voted for before.

Reckoner: Elaborate. I want to hear the specifics.

[Alduskkel]

Fuuuuuuuuck.

Town loss and Scum Draw, right? Sigh. Also Day 4 was way too quick. And no cross kills was vicious.