Open 209: The Invasion of Liten (Game Over)

[Max]

So.

The following are scum:
Crypto
with
SFG
and
Steam-Powered Shovel
with
Nicodemus

Lynch them. Does anybody have preference of who to lynch first?

[Max]

@SFG

My meta is that I don't follow meta. I am pursuing a new kick every game, not becoming fixated. Consider that a meta in effect.

Also, that post was serious, take heed.

You ignored my question, I'd like you to answer it please.

@Pulindar

You ignored my question, I'd like you to answer it please.

I really dislike your first post, but I would like to hear your reasons for those pairs.

I think it's fairly obvious, the first two players are scum together, through post 90.

The second through posts 100 and 101.

@Nikanor

I would prefer Nico first, Max. He's my strongest read atm.

Who is Nico's partner?

And Max, I thought that crypto was scum for a while, but he's actually doing some decent scumhunting. Right now I have a neutral-town read on him.

Interesting...

@Haylen

Why did you ignore my post?

[Max]

I'm glad you find my reads interesting. Why do you think crypto is scum?

ISO me and I refer to 2 posts, go to them and read them. You will find scum.

[quote"Aldusk"]Reasons...? [/quote]

Glad to see you're reading too.

ISO me and... Just look above it's there

[quote"Slax"]without ever going out on a limb as to why.[/quote]

Incorrect... I can't be bothered repeating myself

If this is the question you are so fond of yelling at people for not answering, may I suggest that the reason you aren't getting answers is because people are still sorting out their scum lists?

People still have preferences. If they are limited to 4 players they will probably have a preference who to lynch first.

What do you find interesting about Nika's response?

The "oh-I've-changed-my-mind-but-I-never-posted-either-the-original-or-new-opinion-nor-is-their-any-evident-change-in-my-posts-of-opinion" hypocrisy of his view. Of course that is if you ignore the votes against crypto when they evidently had no info from one perfectly acceptable question + not-scummie post.

[Max]

Max is also under a bit of pressure already and I'd like to place some pressure on lesser suspects.

Hi, this is pressure. Max has not met me yet.

Where is this pressure you so speak of?

Also,

Alduskkel's repeated post about why people are scum

I think it's fairly obvious, the first two players are scum together, through post 90.

The second through posts 100 and 101.

Sniper is evidently an alt. So, you need to let him be an alt.

Also. Whoever said that this playstyle isn't good is lying. It sure is more fun than most. It has a twinge of some aggresive players and a sprinkling of some fun players.

[Max]

Eh... you banned dark red not ooc tags.

Oops...my mistake. Consider the warning rescinded, then.

[Max]

Max: No, really, why do you suspect those people? You haven't given any reasons of your own. At all.

Do you want me to go get some more posts to lead you to? Because here's some (all are after my initial post for any before refer to my iso where I highlight my reasons):

Crypto: ISO 49, 47, 41 (Useless Filler, Meta-Obsessing, Meta Obsessing)
SFG ISO 23, 26, (obv. 21) and appears to be an activity whore.
Nicodemus hasn't actually posted much since my post but is on V/LA
SPS is all IIoA. I don't need quotes for that.

And for before my post I one again refer you to my own older post.

Also... I will vote when I'm ready to lynch I have a few people to hear more from before they are lynched.

[Max]

FoS: Max, refusing to vote on day 1 is anti-town.

No, incorrect voting when you aren't willing to lynch someone is scummy. For example unless you are willing for at this very second nicomedus to be lynched you shouldn't be voting him.

[Max]

Also Max, you also might want to consider that voting can be used as...say...a scumhunting technique? Or even just a threat to get someone who needs to talk to talk. There are like 200 ways of using a vote and only about 50 of them involve actually getting the person you're voting lynched.

Pressure voting is inherently flawed, in the fact that in about 48 hours I know that I'll have a lynch target. Voting them to get them to speak is pointless as it makes them change their actions to avoid lynch. If the person I want lynched doesn't make serious changes soon they will be victims of my wrath.

3. Why do you hate meta so much that the discussion of meta made you decide that crypto is scummy? Meta is extremely important, if for no other reason, then because it keeps players from making the same mistakes every single time (like lynching me because I crack under pressure. Cus of course no townie ever cracked under pressure ever ever ever.)

There is a difference between advancing/improving your game than inter-game dependence. I can link you to a game of mine from a long while ago where I used this play style. It failed far worse than now, Two of Four
Several players since linked to that game, lynched me, discovered I was again town. Meta is weak and ill-conceived, relying on it to such an extent I believe to be anti-town. As you could link to any of the games I've played and discover different conclusions based on which ones you post.
I could manipulate my meta (e.g. Pooky Town Guarantee), I could link to games where I played poorly as town. I could link to games where I played exceptionally as scum. It doesn't work to the extent crypto is claiming and the tunneling on sniper is not helping town.

[Max]

ok. Post 90 wasn't even my post so I cannot say why crypto did that. That's the only of the three posts that really has anything to do with me and I can't honestly see why crypto, for all practical purposes, FoSing me is a conclusive buddying case between the two of us.

It was more of what he was fossing you for.

[Max]

On a side note, why have I not appeared in one of these mini-flavour texts?

Don't worry, your time is coming...

[Max]

Don't worry, your time is coming...

I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not to be honest... do you know something I don't.

Hmm...

To All

:

Q1

: Who do you believe is the partner of the player you are voting for?

Q2

: If the player you are voting is town would you consider their possible partner is clear?

This is a question just to gauge a few responses.

[Max]

There is zero justification to holding onto your vote, being afraid of a quicklynch doesnt count since you should be voting who you want dead at the current point in the game.

Correct, and I shall vote when I want someone dead. So when I want someone dead you'll be first to know... along with everyone else when I vote them.

And @ the other bit
YES, knowing if someone thinks they have found the partner(s) is always good. If scum kill them off it gives us information. If scum

And @whoever it was that asked who I want to lynch...

I want to lynch Alduskkel. I have seen absolutely no accusing of anybody being scum. Not even listing scummy activities, obsesses on other peoples views with never even providing his own people to lynch, the closest to accusing someone of being scum he's been is saying pulindar is buddying which I've seen none of particularly.
I've been attempting to get any feedback from my line of questioning but he's not posted an iota of anything useful to the town. Fillers that make him look as though he's scum hunting but genuinely he isn't particularly doing much of anything.

Vote: Alduskkel

Meaning I'm happy for everyone to lynch him... I'll move or unvote when either I think he's town or someone else is scummier.

[Max]

No, im a three shot day cop. He came up town. Max and Crypto came up scum. That means im just a VT now. Lets lynch one of them, will tell you which one of them later.

You told me in our mason group that you investigated Alduskkel and found him to be scum there's no need to distance yourself from me the town has always known of our Mason Group

[Max]

I was waiting for LordChronos to post his read-through opinions.

[Max]

I don't particularly see a case.

Your evidence is circumstantial at best. Also, bear in mind that I've asked all players that question.

Remember even mafia members have to scum-hunt so you can't solely work on who's scum-hunting. Which appears to be what you're doing. Though scum will be less likely to lynch their scum and kill them at night instead

[Max]

Also I would like to say, I'm willing to give our closed-mouthed Max another Day to give more reasoning, because I have seen a player whose scumhunting relied so heavily on secrecy of intent that he nearly got lynched Day 1 for the exact same reasons we are now thinking of lynching Max. Then he got NK'd Night 1, which should tell you something about both his accuracy and his alignment...

You do realise how much wifom this induces? If scum wanted me dead they would push for my lynch, I'm not so townie that the majority would oppose my lynch, they wouldn't

need

to use their NK. 4 Votes of 10 tomorrow is what they control, so two people need to think I'm scummy it isn't that much of a bandwagon they'd need to get going.

Oh, and Max doesn't address or even acknowledge Alduskkel's defense. Scummy.

I acknowledged it by reading it here is my formal response:
- Both of the posts you have quoted do not say that you find a person scummy beyond the most feeble arguments even a three year old could make
- Quote two cannot be serious, he's calling him out on commenting on the newbieness of a player, (it's evident that nobody's going to claim doc *round of applause*) then states that he is the scummy one for wanting a sniper lynch and nobody else is, because he wants a policy lynch on sniper... yay?
- Quote one isn't calling him scum, it's just stating that it's evidently wrong with the "I don't want to look like I'm OMGUSSING". IIoA

I haven't seen anything that looks remotely useful to the town just quote after quote making side notes, either contradicting or agreeing not actually attacking any scum. Is voting sniper while opposing him being placed at L-1 when he's responsible just as much.

[Max]

If you were referring to the first part of my post, it seems almost as though washing the hands of me dying before it actually happens.

[Max]

Re-reading, probably will post tomorrow don't have much time for games just my modly duties

[Max]

These are some of the WORST possible things that scum can know the answers to. It lets them know who they can pull down with them or who they just barely need to change interactions with to frame if they get lynched. It lets scum know what specific interactions people are looking for. So it not only lets scum know what they need to do in order to ensure mislynches, but also it lets them know what they need to do to NOT get tied to their partner.

I'd disagree, if people believe they have found scum they believe they have found their partners. If they do not then they cannot believe they've found scum. They would believe they've found an SK, and as there is no SK then they must be bandwagoning for no evident reason.

This is passive scumhunting. The case that normally will get pushed through is the one that is fleshed out with quotes so everyone knows exactly what is going on. I can live with "player X did A B and C" without quotes. But not "Look at X post". This is just looking like you are pushing lynches, not pushing them.

No it isn't... passive scum hunting is like what JDodge does:

Y is scum, lynch them

I provide evidence in the form of post references. You then go and read them and jump to the same conclusion that I did.

Furry, what do you think of competing Nicodemus/Max wagons? i would prefer only one of them paired with Nikanor to be honest.

Considering at this time I had only one vote (from Furry) how can you consider it a wagon?
Were you paying attention to the game? Or jumping to conclusions without checking.

- Haylen - Obv Town
- LordChronos Neutral
- Max Scummy
- Pulindar Slight town read
- Alduskkel Slight scum read
- crypto He exists? Umm...dunno
- Nikanor Neutral leaning scum
- SFG Leaning town
- Steam-Powered Shovel Scummy. Instinct.
- Slaxx Town read
- Furry Neutral
- Nicodemus Scum read
- Sniper Scum read

Meh, I think that most are fairly accurate to an extent, not how I'd define all of them but similar. Main discrepancy is with the leanings and slights. I'm not sure how you have Nik leaning scum when you have Crypto as neutral.

On a side note, Haylen has done absolutely nothing all game, yet has attracted little attention for behaviour. It interests me that really above is the only post with opinions the rest might as well be blank.

At the point I voted Sniper I hadn't ISO'd Max yet. If you actually read the rest of the post you quoted, I believe I did give reasons for voting Max.

Scummy, you should never vote for players until you have read the whole game.

Have you read the same game as me? Quote one points out that SFG was thinking like scum, valuing looking Town over voting for a suspect. The second one says that Slaxx's L-1 seemed rash and bandwagony in light of the fact that it seemed like he just wanted to policy lynch him (i.e., he didn't have a scum read on him). I've explained this before.

Yes I have, I presume, unless you're reading an edited version I would disagree. You never followed up either argument, you highlighted them then ignored the topic entirely. Say if I self voted now it would be held against me, and probably earn a vote, the fact you firstly say that SFG is scummy for doing so, yet you don't ask any questions of her nor do you add a new line of questioning at other people.

This is what you've been doing. Commentating about what is good and bad play, which is not scum-hunting.

[Max]

I thought I'd posted this ages ago but it turns out I didn't this is all in response to SPS I wrote this at like 3pm so it doesn't respond to anything else.

This is a ridiculous position. There are plenty of ways to find scum which work just as well for mafioso as for SKs. It's perfectly possible for a mafioso to not give a significant hint as to who his partner is despite screwing up enough to get lynched.

Yes you are right, the night kills. As there have been no nightkills thus far.
As for providing examples, no need. I believe that I have read enough games to see how really, to find scum you need to have ideas of who the partners are. Even if you aren't right if you see evidence in game for you to suspect they are distancing

Lies. He's essentially just giving us extra information by voting at that point. The risk of premature lynchings is easily averted by a quick glance at a VC, so there's no real downside. It's only scummy if it can reasonably lead to a mislynch.

He's misleading the town. He's voting misinformed. He's using partial information therefore any information the town could gain is apparently negated by using a lame excuse for not having voted.

Say I began to be pressured for a vote, it's a cop out to say, "Oh I hadn't finished reading". He's intentionally making himself not accountable for his own vote.

[Max]

Sorry not really had a good chance to read through properly but. Meh. I'll post properly later/tomorrow.

[Max]

I think Max' lack of activity is more relevant, seeing as he doesn't have his vote on either of the two serious candidates.

Yes, but considering I don't want to lynch either Nico or Sniper my vote is in the correct place.

On a side note I'm not liking how a bandwagon has just appeared on Sniper in a few pages. I'll re-read the two of them. But seriously though if sniper is scum I'll eat my hat.

[Max]

Sniper appears more incompetent than actually scummy. For the sole reason I don't want a sniper lynch, and believe instead that sniper will probably leave the game at some point, he evidently doesn't like the pace of our games so why play them?

Unvote

,

Vote: Nicodemus

Though I doubt that Nico is scum either, sniper lynch can be used as a scapegoat and scum can easily not be held accountable to their lynch.

[Max]

I seriously would reccomend quick lynching Max if Nico is town.

Weren't you advocating my lynch anyway?

This is like me saying you should lynch Alduskkel if Nico is town. I'd endorse an Alduskkel lynch if he's town or scum.

On another note, I don't see how Nico town links me to him when most people seemed to believe I'm his scumpartner?

On a third note ^He's manipulating the town

[Max]

Pretty much the same for me. I thought he was townie until that last post.

[Max]

What would you have said if I had voted sniper?

That I'm evidently trying to distance myself from Nico?
I'm bussing? I'm trying to deflect attention.

The only reason for my Nico vote is because I don't want sniper. I think Nico is lurking but I don't think he's scum.

I'm opposed to both of the main wagons. Ultimately however Lynch>No Lynch. Especially Day 1.

[Max]

Because of that, I dont think any active players voting "other" could be a Nico-partner. I would say a Nico-partner is on the tail end of his wagon, or on the sniper wagon.

Right, so until I voted Nico I wasn't his partner?

[Max]

I'm up for an Alduskkel or Furry Lynch. I'd prefer the first though the actions at the end of Day 1 definitely set Furry back quite a bit.

[Max]

On a side note sniper has been replaced in a newbie game I just did a quick search

[Max]

Max/SPS is my favored scumpair at the moment. Both had motivation behind the nightkills, but they've also both been doing some really awkward distancing. Max starts off the game with an unfounded "knowledge" that SPS is scum, and again in ISO 5 his weakest case seems to be on SPS. Nevertheless, he never votes for SPS and SPS begins the day with a completely unfounded vote against Max.

You do realise on my list I voted none of them until after I'd voted alduskkel?

And I'd kill Furry over anybody else as he's the only person to actually develop a case upon me. LC/Sanhora didn't. As scum I would either kill someone I thought was scum. (I admit that I thought crypto was scummy)

And for LC I think that would have been an achievable lynch so no adept scum would kill him. So we're looking for a weak scum-pair with little scum experience.

Also, I dislike the way SFG is going with this line of thinking in a twofold game it's harder to read into nightkills like he's trying to. You could find at least every player is somehow implicated in at least one nightkill. However the analysis of the all against SPS is quite impressive I knew they (dragon/crypto) were against him but not that much.

I looked at the SPS/LC then SPS/crypto Multi-Player Iso to see whether any of them were particularly interesting pieces of "banter". Now the SPS/crypto was not providing of anything really they pretty much ignored each other with once or twice crypto attacking him. Then SPS/LC was pretty much the same.

SPS did not kill them because of anti that and I will admit that SPS is sort of acting weird with me. It's what I like to describe as back-seat scum-hunting. He makes many cases against me and even when there was a bandwagon on me he remained on his Nicodemus bandwagon. He only today began genuinely pushing for my lynch.

IIoA is what I accused him of yesterday and it's still the same, the only bits I've seen him thrive on are the anti-me-not-voting posts, which is general theory and not analysis. Also, accusing me of being scum based on a case on Alduskkel is ridiculous, have you read him in Iso?

Also whoever wanted a link to the game with sniper being replaced I would like to Highlight Ctrl+F. Go to the Newbie queue search sniper and there is a line that says (XXX) replacing Sniper. Click the link and there's proof.

[Max]

aaaand finally they both ended up being on the same wagon.

This is null, it wouldn't matter which wagon I'd ended on if I were his partner as both would result in a non-us pairing.

[Max]

Wow, that's a pretty impressive wagon that happened quite quickly, on a serious note, I don't like Nikanor's "Max needs to vote for his prime candidate" thing.

I'm not voting now because currently I can't decide whether to vote Alduskkel or Furry.

On the sniper front I think it's interesting he didn't play the newbie game he was replaced in. And I'd argue that he's playing this game because he is scum and therefore finds it more interesting though I still think he'll get replaced out. What is more disturbing is the fact that both games started at the same time.

[Max]

I also dont like how defensive he got when he was under pressure.

I don't like being accused of being scum with someone I have said is scum all game.

On a side note I think that was L-1. Notice in relation to the Nico wagon how quickly this one has grown.

[Max]

Ever heard of active lurking? Oh good, then Iso yourself.

On a serious note me going:
"I don't like this person or this post, I think that this post is ridiculous"
is different to
"I think this person is scum"

I would be willing to lynch him. Though I'd still rather lynch Furry or Ald

[Max]

Then there's the countless posts of "I'm sad today".

[Max]

^See

Then there's the PBPA you promised.

[Max]

EBWOP:

I understand you were never going to do a 20 odd page one but you had said that you'd started

[Max]

I'm starting to despair a little bit about this game, with so few people actually contributing and so many active lurking or lurking, or just plain being the VI. Furry can you explain again why it was advantageous to keep the VI around?

He thinks sniper is town.

On a serious note I'm going now so while I'm gone I think you should lynch Furry, upon ISO of Furry, he is manipulative, and well generally manipulative people are scummy.

If someone hammers me while I'm away scum are:

SPS, Furry, Alduskkel and Someone else, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Haylen or Slaxx.

[Max]

Max, the reason I want you to vote for someone is because I want you to put up a fight. The more struggle you put up before your death, the more info and interactions we have to analyze after you're gone. And the best way to put up a struggle is to push for a competing wagon.
I want to see you fight for your life, Max. I want to see you sweat, scream and bleed all the way to the noose. And the only way you're going to have any chance to survive this day is if you start and push a competing bandwagon.
Make it happen, Max.

So, you are tunneling on me openly... right, how incredibly townie of you.

Vote: Furry

Also if you want more information that Max is scum, on his OWN speculation, you can say that LC dying means Max killed him. He specifically said that he would of killed me (WIFOM) because I wanted him lynched. LC also wanted him lynched though, and shockingly got killed. Weak I know, but if he is going to defend himself on WIFOM, I can use the exact same thing to show him as scum. This can also include that I specifically said to lynch Max if I died, but im just going to stick with the more "concrete" WIFOM.

Did you see what I said, anybody competent could go for an LC lynch. I'm a competent mafia player, read games I've played if you want. I win as scum, because I know who to target. I would have probably killed you as you are the only one making a case against me. Everyone else is just "wtf".
Also, does anyone really pay attention to dying wishes, tomorrow people aren't going to vote to lynch the people I say. Night Kill victims are being paid attention to more than normal. And mafia need someone to lynch at day right, so they kill people who are playing well, k? Once you've got that idea we can move on.

Yeah, I am a bit. This game is just as much about making sure your case gets noticed and listened to as much as it is getting correct reads. I know there are some games where people didnt listen to me and town got crushed, so I do whatever I view as the right move to get the moves that need to be done, get done.

Right, so straight from the furballs mouth. He's not saying the right moves to get the scum lynched. He's saying he'll do the right move to get the moves "that need to be done, get done". Eh?
Is it just me or is that like when people say: "I'll do anything I can to win" in regards to a lynch, it's not lying but it's disassociation from alignment claims.

Yeah, yeah I am. I do that quite a bit regardless of my alignment.

Again, sweeping statements that are disassociation from alignment.

Surely you'd say "I do that as town"

Slight town if anything. I like the fact that he is willing to lynch Max and listening to me is, as we all know, a towntell.

contradicted by

I was saying that A) Max is scum and B) if A is true then LC is most likely his partner.

You never said anything negative about LC, at all. I think that this is somewhat of a scum-ploy. "Admitting to Error",

Acutally as I said, Nico-scumA makes you less likely scumA then others given the massive inefficiency, yet blatantness of defending him going on.

You accuse me of poor scum-hunting yet I've yet to be proven wrong about any of my candidates (well, crypto, but once I got used to him he warmed).

Right, because im catching up. When I have a case I will have A>B(>C) laid out.

And you say this. Which never came really it was I want these two lynched and I want this other player alive.

[Max]

I saw what you said and its a WIFOMy way to try and clear yourself claiming "I would of done something else". Depending on the town, killing me could easily of resulted in the extra push needed to cause your lynch. Lets also not forget LC who showed some interest in your lynch DID die. This is basically a null arguement from me in a response to a null defense from you, attempting to show you that it means nothing except an attempt to get something going for you being town.

I repeat, LordChronos could have been lynched. Read him in ISO and you could easily make a case against him, why bother nightkilling when you can lynch him?

Saying "anything that needs to be done so town which I am" would be better then from now on? No need for redundancies when they are not needed.

I'm sure there was something looking into this a while ago, but in general people who refer to their townliness in posts (not the way sniper does, that's more of a claim) are townie. I can't remember when that was done I'll try and find it, alone it's not strong but combined with your general scummy play it can be added.

Yeah, I do that as town and I do that as scum. It has led to a whole lot of success as both factions.

Again, not reassuring on a town perspective. You manipulate the town into doing what you want them to do. I just don't like this "so what" attitude. It's almost treating it as a none issue, manipulating the town is inherently anti-town.

I actually dont know what I was really saying there since it should of been "If Nico is scum LC is his partner". I think I just had a few wires get crossed in my suspicions here since you can see all through late D1 I had Nico-LC as scum together then Max-? as other scum. Put a wrong name down and ran with it.

Okay. Everyone can name slip.

This is me saying I dont think you are partners with Nico... where are you getting that defense-attack?

I also dont really disagree with too many of your suspicions, and scum does have to scumhunt in this setup. I have been in a 8:2:2 open as scum and caught more other scum then town did. What point are you trying to make here?

It was the wrong quote. I'll try and find the other one soon. In effect though I remember a post saying that I'm not scumhunting. I'll find it.

Well I did come out with: I want max lynched, if not him crypto or Nico. I also have come out with: I want Sniper and SPS alive

That isn't A>B>C case that's:
A>B=C>D=E

[Max]

That quote is from Nikanor, which you must have been aware of, but the vote suggests it's from Furry. Scummy.

Eh, no. Why would I vote someone for tunneling? It's the choosing to tunnel that is scummy, and alone tunneling is not a scum tell.

Replace Sniper

I find SFGs post quite good pointing out all logical consistencies. Even own. Ill explained or not explained at all votes.

I think his first and extremely controversial post was actually intended to do two things

I think this is the first person who has actually said the truth

Ald, Furry, Nikanor, SPS

Can I get a prize here as I highlighted SPS as scum yesterday as well as Ald. Furry towards the end of Yesterday and today. Meh, I didn't put Nikanor but after this post I feel uneasy:

Can we please agree on someone to lynch?

The whole way you get information is by players not agreeing. Not by players agreeing.

tl;dr: Lynch Furry over your current candidate. Then we can get to the others tomorrow.

[Max]

I'll post properly tomorrow.

[Max]

Now I'm going to inform you in advance that I'm away between the 4th of April and the 12th of April so at that point I'll be completely invisible.

During that period I will either A) find a temporary replacement for myself
or
B) (if that isn't amiable) A permanent replacement.

It'll be up to you/the mod. To decide which you'd prefer.

Post properly in a minute turning off electricity for a while (Long Story)

[Max]

Max, I'd rather just lynch you.

Since that's not going to happen on my watch we should lynch Furry. Proper post to come in a minute thought I'd respond to that first.

[Max]

I disagree with Max on a whole range of issues regarding playstyle, so I'm certainly not going to assume he decides who to kill in the same way as I would

I like to be... in charge. I would go as far as contravening my partner's wishes if I thought that I would be better off doing something else.

The issue here is that this discussion is getting nowhere, as you seem to be tunneled into believing that I am scum by faulty logic.

No, I think you were leaving your options open for whichever vote was most convenient for you to take.

I disagree. It isn't the fossing of all people that is concerning it is the fossing of all people and not comparing any players as more/less scummy.

Do we need to send Haylen our roles or does she already have them?

[Max]

P.S. You're scum.

Where's the case?

PS. You, Furry, Ald and I can't remember who the fourth person was I specified.

[Max]

I wouldn't say I stepped in for Alduskkel. I first asked you to clarify what you found suspicious, then I stated I disagreed with your assessment after he responded to your accusation, and then we had a little discussion. I made my opinion clear, but I didn't pre-empt Alduskkel.

I need to check back on this but I believe you did the same when I attacked him, though it could just be faulty memory.

[Max]

Sniper. Either post some case or go away. You *are* not helping your side: *regardless* of alignment:

- We may lynch you (which is bad for both [all three] alignments)
- We are ignoring you (Bad if you're town)
- You aren't reading the game, so can't make informed decisions as scum, nor make informed lynches as town.

On a side note. I'm willing for an Ald lynch if people feel that they'd rather see that than Furry. (I'd also go for SPS, but you know, he's not my first 2)

[Max]

Wagon-Jumping is common early game, I did re-read there's something odd about it. I'd definitely agree that it's scummy, but not necessarily scum tell.

I do find it interesting the "Rebel (Arkon)" thing you highlighted, would you mind which group you were with Haylen as long as you were scum? I think it's definitely bizarre, though I highly doubt that St. Kerrigan would have manipulated chances...

[Max]

On a side note Would anybody have anything against a temporary replacement or would you want me to leave for good?

[Max]

Deadline is an always has been March the 27th lol.

Do you/St. Kerigen have a problem with a temporary replacement?

[Max]

A week. Easter Monday till the Monday After. (I'm willing to search for one myself if you'd prefer)

On a side note, SNIPER get your finger out. I think your town, and just not playing. You shouldn't vote just for self preservation. You aren't playing the game so you can't be deriving pleasure.

Unvote, Vote: Alduskell

It appears nobody's bothering to lynch Furry, so candidate no. 2 is being voted for. Which does have some support.

[Max]

SPS is reading this thread lots but not posting how many times have I seen his name at the "currently reading this forum" and not posted... I don't know but quite a large number

[Max]

If we mislynch today there has to be at least one cross kill tonight or town has next to no chance.

Would you be willing for a Nikanor lynch? That seems as likely or more than an Ald lynch to happen.

I'm happy for any lynch to go through over my own. I'm the only person I know is town so it's a 50:50 chance to hit scum voting for anyone else. (Just under)

I'll change my vote Tuesday unless either the Ald or Furry wagon that I want picks up big time.

[Max]

Yes. I cannot guarantee that any other player is town. I can prove to myself that I am town.

Therefore though I would rather press a button on one of my scum list I would still choose any other player over myself.

[Max]

Why does Sniper have to be paired with SPS?

Where is the link with sniper to anyone.

[Max]

That's a very short-term way of looking at things. Avoiding getting lynched today is pointless if you get lynched tomorrow, so there should be people you don't want to lynch even if it means getting lynched yourself.

Well. If I'm lynched today town are pretty much out of the contest (unless NKs go their way), I don't like putting things down to chance. And as I think I've found scum I don't trust that they'll cross kill each other entirely. And if those players are town I don't trust they'll kill scum.

[Max]

So why do you think sniper is town? And do you think that he is a useful asset to the town?

Because currently I have a null read on him.

[Max]

I reported Sniper to mith and the response was along the lines of "he isn't enough of a problem to be forcibly replaced out yet."

*Head -> Brick Wall*

Also, if we don't lynch sniper today scum should completely kill him. A) He's sucking the fun out of the game. B) he goes along with whatever he's told.

Unvote, Vote: Sniper

I would rather lynch Sniper than Nikanor. Because nikanor can be lynched tomorrow, and might be night-killed at some point. That's not going to happen to sniper.

[Max]

Was there anything you particularly felt I needed to comment on?

The game?

That generally helps. If SFG is V/LA we need to get people to move to voting Nikanor over Sniper otherwise I'm dead.

Unvote; Vote Nikanor

[Max]

SPS, why haven't you asked your scum-buddy furry why he thinks sniper is town. More precisely why can't SFG agree with the crap-logik provided when you accepted it?

[Max]

SPS has had it out to get me since I called him scum day one.

[Max]

I think that was an intentional "lets not use the name of max" before you get on your high horse about it.

[Max]

SFG is evidently not lurking, Nikanor is... (though I haven't checked other games)

[Max]

It's deadline tonight and I haven't heard from Haylen whether I'm meant to be finding a replacement or she is. It's okay though because the night will run to Midnight Monday I'm only missing 6 days, considering the pace of the game I'll be able to catch up with ease.

Lynch SPS, Furry, Ald and A Nother.

[Max]

Eh... I was right...

Interesting read.