Open 199 - Friends, Enemies, and Enemies - OVER

[Shrinehme]

Post #24 feels off to me.

why.

[Shrinehme]

Oh, nevermind. I see now.

But look how quick he is to deny that he treated xReck's questions seriously. Doesn't that feel slightly off to you?

I don't see why it would.

Why

does

it "feel off" to you?

Do you think Scum would more likely post a serious response than they would continue joking in order to prolong the RVS?

Looked newcomertownish in my eyes.

[Shrinehme]

It's not "hurts town" so much as "taking something seriously that is so completely obvious in its lack of sincerity and then pretending that you didn't in order to avoid suspicion that has been placed upon you rather than attempting to actually defend yourself from the reasoning put forth"

*eyebrow raise*

I've never actually seen an instance of this before. I'm assuming you have?

[Shrinehme]

Dana, I honestly don't see how the heck that couldn't be an RVS joke. Maybe the one trying to confuse the Town is you. Those questions seemed serious enough to me.

unvote

Since RVS is over.

You spend a post chastising Dana and then

unvote

? What?

RVS being over does not mean you should stop using your vote to contribute.

Vote: Tracker

. I'm preeeetty sure about this one.

Also, I apologize for the multi-posts. I'm accessing the internet not via my laptop, which is currently broken. Soooo I can multitab or copypaste. I'll try to snatch other's computer's and post more often from them for efficiency, but unfortunately you're stuck with hideous multi-posts for the time being. Sorry.

[Shrinehme]

It's not "hurts town" so much as "taking something seriously that is so completely obvious in its lack of sincerity and then pretending that you didn't in order to avoid suspicion that has been placed upon you rather than attempting to actually defend yourself from the reasoning put forth"

*eyebrow raise*

I've never actually seen an instance of this before. I'm assuming you have?

Variation...

"doing something that is considered scummy and then attempting to backtrack to get out of the situation rather than actually respond to the case put forth"

Oh I see.

Pretty sure already, hmm? I think this is Tracker's playstyle. He's always careful with his vote, sits back and tries to gather information first.

Always

? May I see which game

you've played with him?

Vote: Shrinehme

Who is pretty sure about anything D1? Oh yeah, that's right. Scum. They already know 2/12 roles...

I added that tidbit to ensure that it wouldn't be mistaken for a less serious vote... I think it's scummy and hasn't gained nearly as much attention as it should. Sigh.

How does the setup relate to my confidence of my vote? Why is mentioning my confidence in my vote more likely a Scum move than it is a Town move?

@Shrine: Chastising and voting for me based on how I play? How is that a scumtell to you?

Because you were sticking nails into Dana's coffin [so to speak], by instilling possibilities and suspision into other player's heads [quote: "Maybe the one trying to confuse the town is you"], and then immediately backed away from the wagon. Looks like you want other people to push the wagon for you, so you don't get your hands dirty or attract attention.

[Shrinehme]

That kind of "confidence" is scummy because there's only 1 party that can be confident, and that's scum.

Well I disagree.

Why can only scum be confident [especially in this specific setup, where Scum, as Cdubs said, are

less

informed than usual]?

Instilling possibilities and suspicions is what this game's all about, friendo. You didn't miss that memo, did you?

I don't think so.

I'd prefer to have seen your opinions and thoughts on Dana rather than "Maybe the one trying to confuse the Town is you". You explicitly sidestepped giving the Town

your

thoughts on him [I still don't even know what they are. You bring up points against him, but don't have a vote on him or mention your stance on him.

Is he suspicious to you or not?

]. Just sprinkled suspicion and doubt over someone being already looked at. I don't consider that to be "what the game is all about". It just reads scummy to me. P:`,

And who said I backed away from the wagon?

That's how I interpreted the Unvote and lack of given opinion on him. See bold above.

[Shrinehme]

Hmm.

I would mind hammering Flareonage, even though Tracker still appeals a lot to me and I'm sort of angry that no one has even bothered to look at him. At first I was more convinced that Flareon's just a newbie-town whom scum are scapegoating for an easy wagon... But I pretty much agree with Ray's 163 a lot, especially that leaving him around will basically just allow him to skate through the game providing little/no content until we get doomed with him at lylo.

But first I want SaintKerrigan to respond to my Post 55.

[Shrinehme]

I think the day lasted long enough

What is your definition of "long enough"?

Flareon has been lurking

Flareonage's last post before this one was post 138 (Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:36 pm). 20 posts before his!

Just 20 posts [and a little less than 2 days] before yours, and you consider it

lurking

?


Would like to hear opinions on The Tracker.

[Shrinehme]

Read the ruleset, guys. No one will be replaced because they're inactive, and if the Day ends before mavsfan gets a post in [and I don't think he has yet; correct me if I'm wrong], then he's modkilled and out of our hair anyway. We don't have to worry about him unless he

does

post, in which case I'm all for a lurker-lynch wagon.

[Shrinehme]

When the day starts to stagnate, then it's lasted long enough. No point drawing it out.

Maybe I should have been more precise, he was

active

lurking.

... That makes sense.

Unvote

Err. Wait, who is Cry Me A River? And whom is s/he replacing?

[Shrinehme]

Err. Wait, who is Cry Me A River? And whom is s/he replacing?

Posts like this crawl at me. First off, it's in the first post and it's in each votecount the mod is posting. Secondly, there has been enough discussion about CMaR having to defend SK's actions that it should have been obvious.

... I swear it wasn't in the OP yesterday, when I'd checked [and forgotten to mention in my post then, so I did today...].

It was more of a rhetorical/double-checking question, since I didn't see [missed?] any mention of his replacement, didn't see him mentioned in the OP, and didn't think there were any replacements in this game...

It was a silly question though.


I'm not sure about your analysis of the setup and possible early win for scum, though. Don't the factions have to completely eradicate each other in order to win, as well?

[Shrinehme]

The wasn't mentioned in the case against SK/CMAR that I just read over and agree with, but Flareonage's vote on him early in that Day Phase...:

Unvote

VOTE: SaintKerrigan

Dana brought up valid points thus your vote is pointless

... his dramatic response...:

SERIOUSLY?!? Doesn't it bother you that DKU took seriously what xReck put forth as a joke?

... and Flareonage's lack of committal with the vote...:

I remember now. Why did he do that?

Unvote

VOTE: xReckonerx

Why were you trying so hard to put suspicion on me?

Looks very VERY much like distancing.


Needless to say, I like this wagon, and I support having a pseudo- "double lynch" with mavsfan's modkill.

Vote: CryMeARiver

.

[Shrinehme]

Unvote

Until I get a better handle on the math. I haven't bothered reading those posts yet.

[Shrinehme]

The percentages [chances of hitting Scum] aren't important to me [we aren't lynching randomly!] I reviewed these two, specifically...

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 72#2102672
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 88#2102688

... and yawetag is correct. The Town is set to a losing situation one Phase earlier if we double-lynch than we would if we were to only lynch on person [at Night 3, we would have ZERO chance of winning in the former; the chance still exists somewhat in the latter].

BUT, I think that the chance is worth taking. Mind, they compared only worst case scenarios. We're hitting a mystery-flip mavs and a likely Mafia-aligned CMAR [Mind, no more

Mafia

= one less kill!]. Next Phase will likely be even easier to sort out if our Masons make it through. The worst scenario isn't a very likely scenario at all, so I feel comfortable with offing CMAR and mavs.

[Shrinehme]

Yeah, it did. And your wagon isn't going to work, and your case is absolutely fucking horrible

Insulting a case won't null it.

[Shrinehme]

I want to hear both Tracker's and Cdubs' thoughts before I re-place my vote.

[Shrinehme]

CMAR [...] NOT HELPING TOWN.

From where did you gather this? Have you read his posts? Why didn't you respond to his Post 182?

His case against Reckoner looks pretty genuine to me... But not in a way that it makes him less scummy. Since nearly all signs point to him being Mafia, I think it's a genuine Mafia-aligned Wolf-hunting attack.

[Shrinehme]

Thank you for at least recognizing that I'm trying to help town...

It's hysterical that Reckoner and Dana think people will be stupid enough quicklynch you just because they keeping shouting for it in all caps/exaggerating to the point of basically lying.

I see a very viable wolf team in them.

[Shrinehme]

Tracker and Cdubs are lurking.

Note this!

[Shrinehme]

Reckoner, what's your read on Dana?

[Shrinehme]

Deadline is hitting closing in...

Vote: CryMeARiver

Still would like to hear from Tracker or Cdubs before Day's end, though.

[Shrinehme]

Sorry, I had limited access for a bit, but I should be alright now.

To compensate, I did one of these vote count coloring things. Never did it before. Let's see what we come up with.

Final Count Day 1

2. The Tracker (1): Shrinehme
4.

flareonage

(6): evilsnail,

xRECKONERx

,

danakillsu

,

RayFrost

,

Fate

, The Tracker
6.

danakillsu

(1):

SaintKerrigan

9.

xRECKONERx

(3):

Flareonage

, yawetag, cdubs

Final Count Day 2

5.

CryMeARiver

(5):

danakillsu

, evilsnail,

xRECKONERx

, Shrinehme, The Tracker
8.

mavsfan41

(1): yawetag,

CryMeARiver

What we can gather from this:
Tracker hammered both scum! However, remember the conditions for CMAR in particular; Tracker hammered him on the last day, when deadline was coming up, after having been lurking intensely prior. If he were CMAR's buddy, it seems silly for him to jump in and hammer when he could have stalled until the deadline [under the lurking guise!] and let a No Lynch go, seeing only the death of mavsfan be. Soooo I don't think he's a Werewolf.

I think EvilSnail is Town. Very town. It's highly disadvantageous and risky for scum to bus one other in this game, and he was on top of both scum wagons.

Cdubs lurking selectively during Day 2, when CMAR was under heavy suspicion, gives me the impression that they're the Wolf buddies. Buddies want to avoid giving commitment for or against a partner. Lurking is a good way to go about that. He also lurked a bit on Day 1, but not to the same extent... just enough to park his vote on Reckoner and disappear.

Then there's Yawetag, who not only argued very strongly against CMAR's wagon, insisting that offing only mavsfan was the way to go, but also tunneled in on Reckoner for most of that Day.

...

Oh, wait. As I started typing this I realized that I made a mistake and the final wagon is actually this.

Actual Final Count Day 1

2. The Tracker (1): Shrinehme
4.

flareonage

(7): evilsnail,

xRECKONERx

,

danakillsu

,

RayFrost

,

Fate

, The Tracker, yawetag
9.

xRECKONERx

(3):

Flareonage

, cdubs,

SaintKerrigan

I'm going to leave the above there so that I don't feel like I've wasted my time. And maybe it will give you guys insight into my thought processes. Or something.

... Well, the only real difference is that Yawetag did get his vote in on Flareonage and hadn't tunneled on Reckoner as much as I'd thought. And Tracker didn't hammer both scum. Just one.

I'm pretty sure EvilSnail is Town, though. He's the only one I would strongly object to lynching.

[Shrinehme]

I'm pretty sure EvilSnail is Town, though. He's the only one I would strongly object to lynching.

With that said, do you have any opinions on any other players?

I think Tracker is the other Town.

I don't know which scum I'd place you or Cdubs, but I don't think it explicitly matters either. Lying either scum yields the same result.

[Shrinehme]

Noted that Cdubs hasn't posted.

So that kind of waters the lurking accusation a bit, but it gives us a new dilemma... If lynch someone else, he gets modkilled, and if we didn't hit both scum then and there, we lose... with at most 2 Townies entering the Night Phase. It limits our options.

Though... it's sad that this whole game kind of hinges on his alignment at this point. If he's Town, and doesn't post, we essentially lose [barring one teeny chance: both scum hit each other overnight].

Thoughts?

[Shrinehme]

By the way shrine, what made you suddenly decide I was Town? The last two days you were after me pretty hard.

I just think Yawetag and Cdubs are more likely scum. In my book, there's almost no chance that you're a Wolf [see post 331], and while it's possible that you bussed Flareonage, I think Cdubs [who parked his vote on Reckoner and avoided the wagon] or Yawetag [who jumped on the wagon only at the final second] are more likely to be his buddies.

[Shrinehme]

I was thinking requesting the Mason to claim, but I figured that, since no one had mentioned it, there must have been a good strategical reason why... I was trying to figure that out.

But I agree with it, anyway, since I can't think of a real disadvantage.

I am not the Mason.

I was under the impression that Tracker is the Mason.

[Shrinehme]

Shrinehme, why did you think The Tracker the mason?

I held off on saying why until I heard Tracker confirm. Didn't want scum using what I said to back a fake-claim...

Anyway.

Based off of one of Fate's posts Day 1... his reaction to my offense on Tracker mainly: here, where he attacked me for [what I thought was] very poor and not very well-thought-out reasoning, all in Tracker's defense. I thought it was scummy at the time, but after Fate flipped, I'd thought it was Mason-Mason defense..

Also there's this post. Which was extremely weird to me. He avoids the question, which, again, I kind of thought was scummy. But it makes sense if Tracker and Fate were Masons...

[Shrinehme]

The thing that concerns me though is this... http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 59#2102459

Is what Cdubs said when Reckoner scoped out "trust" lists to make narrowing the Mason down easier.

Did he lie to avoid being caught?

[Shrinehme]

EBWOP.

Upon re-reading that page, I'd just found that Dana had posted one also! Cat was replaced by Yawetag [he says this in following post too].

Is this why you thought Yawetag was Mason, EvilSnail?

[Shrinehme]

Not so sure I believe yawetag to be completely honest. His gambit appeared to look a bit like rolefishing to me, actually...

Role-fishing for... what? The Mason? I wanted the Mason to claim also. Was I also role-fishing? You you don't believe Yawetag, then who is the Mason? Cdubs?

I think this post is scummy.

[Shrinehme]

Still would like The Tracker and Shrinehme to post their thoughts now that yawetag has claimed.

I buy his claim, if that's what you mean.

I'll also back away from Cdubs today, since neither of you are really interested and the fact that he is trying to cast suspicion on Yawetag's claim when he's confirmed by Dana's post I linked to bewilders me.

I think Cdubs and Tracker are the way to go.

Vote: Tracker

[Shrinehme]

You guys have to promise me you'll be online to hammer tomorrow. I don't like this stalling for Cdubs. P:`,

No Lynch = high loss likelihood.

[Shrinehme]

I changed my avatar to depict my reaction to this turn of events.

[Shrinehme]

I hope you accidentally mistype "Shrinehme as "EvilSnail".

[Shrinehme]

If only I'd come a few minutes sooner! Oooh, you'd have been sorry!

[Shrinehme]

No it didn't. All my effort! Down the drain!

And you're not supposed to be alive! Dead people can't talk! They can only SUFFERRRRR.

[Shrinehme]

Also.

Shrine, you killed me and you know it.

[Shrinehme]

WhaIdunno.

Anyway. Good game! I liked the player cast, mostly. Would gladly play with you guys again [except mavsfan. o;]. Even Reckoner even though he frightens me.

It's a shame it was wrecked by modkills.

And by Cdubs not killing EvilSnail or Yawetag for me on Night 3 [grrrrrrr.]

[Shrinehme]

I think Fate should be modkilled for violating Rule 7.

[Shrinehme]

EBWOP

And that the modkill should take place before he voted.

[Shrinehme]

Wait, not Rule 7.

Gee willikers! Where's that rule that says the dead can't post in-thread?!

[Shrinehme]

I love my QT [all of you better read it or I`ll come back from the grave and nkill you again] and would be more than happy to show it to everyone. Dr. Zito, could you post it for me?

[Shrinehme]

This is a fair point, and one I didn't really consider. I was more relieved to have a replacement and get the game back underway than anything else.

Shrinehme should take that up with farside if he feels strongly about it. No hard feelings from me if he does.

Normally I would have. But it didn't really affect the game here.

All it really did was confirmed Yawetag/Fate as Mason [why else would a former Mason be allowed to replace?]. But everyone already knew he was Mason.

I gave up because there was literally no way to pull anything against EvilSnail, who was on top of both wagons and basically obvtown. I decided it would be cooler to at least die in humor. Or something. <_>

[Shrinehme]

DKU

The biggest problem I saw was referring to me as Cat when giving your trust list. It didn't escape my notice, so I'm almost positive it didn't escape other's. It still surprises me that you were killed that next night.

Oh my gosh! Discovery!! Discovery!!

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 60#2101560

Look at this! Look at it! Dana used "Cat" which was the original player name, even though Yawetag had posted several times up until that point! How could he "trust" "Cat", who had never posted, HMMMM?

-

!!!

He doesn't genuinely [vanilla-ily townie-ly!] trust him, that's why! He named the person who was in his role PM!

oh my gosh!

-

oh my gosh!

-

KILL HIM GRAAAAAAA

And that's the story of Dana's death. *closes book*