Open 199 - Friends, Enemies, and Enemies - OVER

[CryMeARiver]

Reporting in, also, have read the entire thread and my main suspect was Dana as Flare's scumbuddy...

This seems really strange to me. There are a few possibilities here:
1)He actually wants us to lynch him. This could mean:
a)He doesn't want to play this game. Seems very unlikely
b)He wants the other side to win. Also unlikely
c)He has a role that wins if it is lynched. Is there such a thing?
2)He doesn't want us to lynch him.
a)Reverse Psychology. A little blatant for that.
b)He wants to confuse us. I find this most likely.
I find 1c a scary possibility, and the second most likely possibility if there is such a role.

He took his overall statement rather seriously (as if he wast trying to accomplish something), not the part that he wanted us to lynch him...then he gets very defensive on Saint Kerrigan("Absolutely not. I did not treat him seriously...") ...so he is either a noob or scum dealing the noob card...it is proven by the date he joined (Dec. 2007) that he is not in fact a noob and should know the role of a jester since its speculated in like every open game

Proven scum, Flareonage, goes off and defends him...

Unvote

VOTE: SaintKerrigan

Dana brought up valid points thus your vote is pointless

They both vote the same...

Third Votecount of Day 1

1. yawetag (1): xRECKONERx
2. The Tracker (1): Shrinehme
3. cdubs (1): cdubs
4. flareonage (0):
5. SaintKerrigan (1): evilsnail
6. danakillsu (2): SaintKerrigan, RayFrost
7. RayFrost (0):
8. mavsfan41 (0):

9. xRECKONERx (2): danakillsu, Flareonage

10. Shrinehme (1): Fate
11. evilsnail (0):
12. Fate (0):

Then he goes and lurks for about 4 days I believe...

Then he posts this...

Mainly, I want to say before going back and reading it through, that anyone whose vote is still on me needs to ask themselves how much more serious I was in my post than xRECKONERx was in his post.

Wait, so you are saying that you weren't being serious in your whole post and you admit that REX wasn't being serious??? This is a contradiction because before you implied that your post was serious and that you took Rex's post pretty seriously...

Ahh...so the truth comes out...

Might have something to do with my newbie playstyle.

You admit that you act noobish even though you aren't...ok

Though this post is all over the place, I hope you get the points i made...

[CryMeARiver]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 69#2098469

[CryMeARiver]

Oh, I just realized my post did not include a vote...EBWOP

Vote: DKU

[CryMeARiver]

I'm just gonna point out... there's no way I'm Flare's scumbuddy.

Was that really necessary? All it did was make me consider you Flare's scumbuddy...

[CryMeARiver]

Wow...never mind, I totally misread the date which takes out pretty much my whole case...Shit, that looks bad...Screw every thing I said

Unvote

Now lets lynch real scum and yes, I'll attempt to defend SK's mistakes...

[CryMeARiver]

Yeah, if he doesn't post or isn't replaced by tomorrow, I'll have my vote on him...

He's either bad town or scum...either way it hurts us

[CryMeARiver]

This would be my case on SK being scummy.

For that matter, why is Flareonage at L-1? (The latter question is directed at the people who are currently voting Flareonage.)

I know you think he's scum. My question is meant to make you think why he is scum. Tracker's answer is the correct kind of answer I'm looking for. I want to know why it is you're voting Flareonage. By the way, Dana, what is

your

case against Flareonage?

I'm not yet sold on the idea that Flareonage is scum.

Flareonage is scum because he fail-flailed, pretended he was confused, and is now lurking. What more do you need?

How is he pretending he was confused?

I am suspicious of the flailing and the lurking, though.

In each quote above, SK is questioning cases against flare, even when his questions were easily answered in previous posts. Instead of trying to seem like he's getting information, he should have been reading previous posts. His constant line of questions tells me he's trying to defend the person, but it's hard to do that when you're simply asking everyone to re-hash previous information.

The only reason I can guess is as followed:
1. I think he thought that you were taking too big of a risk voting Flareonage so quickly (only 7 pages I believe: They usually go 20-30 pages) without much of a confirmed scumtell (if you relook at it, it could just be noobish play, which I can confirm is his meta). I for one would have voted for him after reading through the thread...he was either REALLY bad and noobish town or scum...With posts like this...

Flareonage says

im confused

I thought you thought I was scummy cuz you thought I was trying to defend Dana?

xRECKONERx wrote:
Guys, seriously, why the fook is everyone ignoring Flareonage

they are all scum?

On the 2nd and 3rd posts, he was pushing for more info for a Flareonage lynch...he obviously wasn't convinced...but I can confirm to you that I am not Flareonage's scumbuddy, but it is rather difficult for me to defend my replacement...hope I've satisfied you

[CryMeARiver]

Read the ruleset, guys. No one will be replaced because they're inactive, and if the Day ends before mavsfan gets a post in [and I don't think he has yet; correct me if I'm wrong], then he's modkilled and out of our hair anyway. We don't have to worry about him unless he

does

post, in which case I'm all for a lurker-lynch wagon.

Thanks for the heads up

[CryMeARiver]

When the day starts to stagnate, then it's lasted long enough. No point drawing it out.

Maybe I should have been more precise, he was

active

lurking.

... That makes sense.

Unvote

Err. Wait, who is Cry Me A River? And whom is s/he replacing?

Replaced Saint Kerrigan

[CryMeARiver]

Read the ruleset, guys. No one will be replaced because they're inactive, and if the Day ends before mavsfan gets a post in [and I don't think he has yet; correct me if I'm wrong], then he's modkilled and out of our hair anyway. We don't have to worry about him unless he

does

post, in which case I'm all for a lurker-lynch wagon.

And this is the reason we only have two choices today:
1. Lynch mavsfan
2. No lynch

If we don't lynch mavs and we mislynch, that puts us at four. If maf and werewolves hit townies, we lose.

Err. Wait, who is Cry Me A River? And whom is s/he replacing?

Posts like this crawl at me. First off, it's in the first post and it's in each votecount the mod is posting. Secondly, there has been enough discussion about CMaR having to defend SK's actions that it should have been obvious.

On a sidenote: I've found it VERY helpful to turn on "Always show First Post on every Topic Page:" in my Profile. When it's on, the first post is at the top of every page, no matter how many pages deep you've gone. In Mafia, it allows you to see the votecount and status of the game without having to go back to the first page.

Thanks...didn't even know that setting was there!

[CryMeARiver]

Fate

was

my number one person to trust after reading through the thread
Among the living, I trust Rex, though its a weird trust because he's definitely not off my scum list, and evilsnail seems trustworthy as he is always pointing out flaws in what people say and actively scum hunting (but wouldn't scum do that too?) I also surprisingly trust dana know that he pointed out the flaw in my argument...

Anything else I need to explain about SK's behavior?

[CryMeARiver]

Overlooked the past few days, and 1 person stuck out: Rex

I'm just gonna point out... there's no way I'm Flare's scumbuddy.

I'm gonna rehash this...the only thing this post did is form a chance that you are his scumbuddy...this is dropping hints and placing things in peoples' minds - very scummy

He then places this out there:

In any case, I'd like to see more than a general "SK's defense was scummy"... can someone put together an actual case?

So Yawetag provides the SK case and Rex's response is...

Everyone should quickly pile their votes on mavsfan.

Vote: mavsfan

Yawetag clearly didn't convince him

My vote stays there until he posts or is replaced.

Lynch mavsfan please.

But the next post...

unvote; vote: CryMeARiver
WHAT NOW SON

Didn't really understand this, possibly just trying to be funny, but its a huge contradiction

Then, not long after...

On another note, I finally learned to read, and I don't like my vote anymore. Let's quickly no lynch so Mavs can get modkilled. Easy peasy lemon squeezy. Vote: No Lynch

Wow...that was quick...

But, not to be outdone by himself...2 hours later

Hmm, you're right.

Vote: CryMeARiver

Then he gets mad that people are having a math fight (but doesn't provide his opinion on it) with posts like these

STOP MATHING ME TO DEATH YOU ASSHOLES

*snore*

You two have put me to sleep, gg

I'm about to fucking replace out if you guys don't stop.

Contradictions, waffling, hardly any explanation for his votes...with a small group like this, his posts on Flare might have been a strategic bussing or he could be a werewolf...I know I said I trusted him "with a weird trust", but after overlooking this, he seems quite scummy

@Dana- As far as I see, I'm at L-2...its hard without any vote counts, could you list the people who have voted me? I'll gladly claim, just don't want to hurt town with my claim

Also, didn't like your last 2 posts...

That's a dumb thing to point out. What if they're both scum???? WE WIN! So let's get rid of both and see what happens!

Now we wouldn't win, there would still be 1 scum out there...and since I'm town, there would be 2, maybe 3 out there...

Someone please hammer. I'm begging you. I want to make this a record for the shortest game ever won by the town.

Wow...I didn't get to defend myself or claim and your looking, not even looking, but "begging" for a quick hammer...hmmm...scummilishess post

With regard to the latest argument, I obviously think we should either no lynch or just lynch mavsfan as I'm the one in question...rather than kill 1 definite townie and possibly another, I say we take the chance with the inactive possibly another...he's either lurking scum or inactive townie that isn't helping the town...But I must say, you guys lost me with all the math stuff too...and I'm a wiz in math

Anything else I can do to explain myself, just ask away!

[CryMeARiver]

Overlooked the past few days, and 1 person stuck out: Rex

I'm just gonna point out... there's no way I'm Flare's scumbuddy.

I'm gonna rehash this...the only thing this post did is form a chance that you are his scumbuddy...this is dropping hints and placing things in peoples' minds - very scummy

He then places this out there:

In any case, I'd like to see more than a general "SK's defense was scummy"... can someone put together an actual case?

So Yawetag provides the SK case and Rex's response is...

Everyone should quickly pile their votes on mavsfan.

Vote: mavsfan

Yawetag clearly didn't convince him

My vote stays there until he posts or is replaced.

Lynch mavsfan please.

But the next post...

unvote; vote: CryMeARiver
WHAT NOW SON

Didn't really understand this, possibly just trying to be funny, but its a huge contradiction

Then, not long after...

On another note, I finally learned to read, and I don't like my vote anymore. Let's quickly no lynch so Mavs can get modkilled. Easy peasy lemon squeezy. Vote: No Lynch

Wow...that was quick...

But, not to be outdone by himself...2 hours later

Hmm, you're right.

Vote: CryMeARiver

Then he gets mad that people are having a math fight (but doesn't provide his opinion on it) with posts like these

STOP MATHING ME TO DEATH YOU ASSHOLES

*snore*

You two have put me to sleep, gg

I'm about to fucking replace out if you guys don't stop.

Contradictions, waffling, hardly any explanation for his votes...with a small group like this, his posts on Flare might have been a strategic bussing or he could be a werewolf...I know I said I trusted him "with a weird trust", but after overlooking this, he seems quite scummy

@Dana- As far as I see, I'm at L-2...its hard without any vote counts, could you list the people who have voted me? I'll gladly claim, just don't want to hurt town with my claim

Also, didn't like your last 2 posts...

That's a dumb thing to point out. What if they're both scum???? WE WIN! So let's get rid of both and see what happens!

Now we wouldn't win, there would still be 1 scum out there...and since I'm town, there would be 2, maybe 3 out there...

Someone please hammer. I'm begging you. I want to make this a record for the shortest game ever won by the town.

Wow...I didn't get to defend myself or claim and your looking, not even looking, but "begging" for a quick hammer...hmmm...scummilishess post

With regard to the latest argument, I obviously think we should either no lynch or just lynch mavsfan as I'm the one in question...rather than kill 1 definite townie and possibly another, I say we take the chance with the inactive possibly another...he's either lurking scum or inactive townie that isn't helping the town...But I must say, you guys lost me with all the math stuff too...and I'm a wiz in math

Anything else I can do to explain myself, just ask away!

Again, I forgot to include a vote...

Vote: Xrex

[CryMeARiver]

CMAR's complete lack of context for my posts only makes me even more sure he should be lynched. I don't give a fuck about the math... it makes sense to me that we could lynch AND get the modkill today and still be okay.

Where? I just copy pasted quotes...if you are talking about the WHAT UP one, that's because I don't understand it and was hoping you would explain it

[CryMeARiver]

CMAR's complete lack of context for my posts only makes me even more sure he should be lynched. I don't give a fuck about the math... it makes sense to me that we could lynch AND get the modkill today and still be okay.

Fine, let's go through each quote one more time...

I'm just gonna point out... there's no way I'm Flare's scumbuddy.

That's the exact quote, no context there...

In any case, I'd like to see more than a general "SK's defense was scummy"... can someone put together an actual case?

The whole post was...

Hence me saying "I'm not Flare's scumbuddy". I wouldn't be as brash to claim "Hey guys, I'm pretty much cleared town" because I'm not.
In any case, I'd like to see more than a general "SK's defense was scummy"... can someone put together an actual case?

The first part of the post had nothing to do with the part I was talking about, so no context there...

Everyone should quickly pile their votes on mavsfan.
Vote: mavsfan

No context there, not even a mention of mavsfan before this post...so now we know who started the whole mavsfan ordeal...just sayin'

My vote stays there until he posts or is replaced.

Lynch mavsfan please.

There is no context within these posts, but I did find on the page before this quote to support it...

Because he's lurking.

Big whoop...

unvote; vote: CryMeARiver
WHAT NOW SON

The whole post was this...

Why would he get modkilled?
unvote; vote: CryMeARiver
WHAT NOW SON
In all seriousness, though, with only two masons left, everyone should post the name of the person they trust the most. That way if one of the masons gets NK'd, we can clear the last mason without any pesty counterclaim problems.

I did not find the rest of this post having anything to do with the vote for me, therefore that is why I did not post the entire thing...Also, I still don't get this vote on me...

On another note, I finally learned to read, and I don't like my vote anymore. Let's quickly no lynch so Mavs can get modkilled. Easy peasy lemon squeezy. Vote: No Lynch

This is the whole post barring this small part

THAT'S ONE PERSON LRN2READ

which is irrelevant to anything...no context that I missed here...

Hmm, you're right.
Vote: CryMeARiver

Still kind of wondering how you flip flopped as fast as John Kerry (within a few hours) 3 times...the context for this was evilsnail's post of this:

We have that chance if we lynch twice as well. Except then we have an extra night phase tacked on, which means we lose.
Besides, just randomly, there's a 77% chance scum is either our lynch target, mavs or hit on a cross-kill after.
Optimal play is to let mavs get modkilled and lynch anyway. You can do the math yourself.

This was later proven wrong by yawetag, so the context is again irrelevant

Nice try Rex, but the little context I did miss didn't matter at all...

[CryMeARiver]

Yeah, it did. And your wagon isn't going to work, and your case is absolutely fucking horrible, so Im'ma just go back to playing BioShock 2 and lol at you

Wagon? I have the only vote on you...how ironic that the case that's on you is "absolutely fucking horrible"...but your case on Flareonage was golden, right? Obviously my SK didn't think so, and he is screwing me right now because that's the reason people are voting me

ON the yawetag/evilsnail argument, I agree that the possibility of town losing 2 bodies, and then possibly 2 more tonight too big of a risk...and evilsnail keeps bringing up that "lynching is the way mafia is played"...first of all, don't generalize this to the entire site, it depends on the situation...second, we would still be getting a "lynch" out of mavsfan...it just as normal as any other mafia game's day...What you are going for is a double lynch which is not usually "how the way mafia is played"...Also pointing out that if you look at evilsnail's argument as if he is scum, then it does match (trying to lynch two possible townies and try and put them at Lylo)

What do you think of the argument I posted about xRex and his counterargument?

[CryMeARiver]

ON the yawetag/evilsnail argument, I agree that the possibility of town losing 2 bodies, and then possibly 2 more tonight too big of a risk...and evilsnail keeps bringing up that "lynching is the way mafia is played"...first of all, don't generalize this to the entire site, it depends on the situation...second, we would still be getting a "lynch" out of mavsfan...it just as normal as any other mafia game's day...What you are going for is a double lynch which is not usually "how the way mafia is played"...Also pointing out that if you look at evilsnail's argument as if he is scum, then it does match (trying to lynch two possible townies and try and put them at Lylo)

lol

Not sure what that's about, but I do agree that the argument that you two are having is going nowhere else, you both have different opinions and nobody is changing... any opinion on my argument against xRex and his counter?

[CryMeARiver]

Lets go through why people voted for me

Evilsnail...

This is a strong chance that both of the trusted players will be townies, though. And, if someone fake-claims Mason, we'll soon find out who the real mason was. Honestly, narrowing down scum to two people is good for town. It increases our chances significantly.

That said, I'm not sure there's necessarily a point to this. Breadcrumbing is much more effective and masons can tell each other how they breadcrumbed during the night. That way, we can be pretty sure all the masons have info to back up their claim.

We should not NL today because of mavsfan. If we can get him modkilled, that's awesome, because it's like having an extra lynch. In no way does that motivate no lynching. Getting mavsfan modkilled means we can get two lynches with one night phase instead of two lynches with two night phases.

Pretty sure CMAR is the way to go today.

Vote: CryMeARiver

No folks he didn't provide any reason, but it did come right after this post...

Totally agree with this. His Day 1 posts were scummilicious. I toyed with the idea of voting him in my first post today, but I'd like to see him actually post first.

Dana...

I think that the Tracker is scummy. However, for reasons already mentioned, I find SK scummier. vote:Saint Kerrigan

Could you elaborate on this?

xRex...

Hmm, you're right.

Vote: CryMeARiver

This came after much flipflopping between me and mavs...could you elaborate on this at all

I just need to know why these votes are on me...neither of you gave any reason, so please fill in the blanks

[CryMeARiver]

Lets go through why people voted for me

Evilsnail...

This is a strong chance that both of the trusted players will be townies, though. And, if someone fake-claims Mason, we'll soon find out who the real mason was. Honestly, narrowing down scum to two people is good for town. It increases our chances significantly.

That said, I'm not sure there's necessarily a point to this. Breadcrumbing is much more effective and masons can tell each other how they breadcrumbed during the night. That way, we can be pretty sure all the masons have info to back up their claim.

We should not NL today because of mavsfan. If we can get him modkilled, that's awesome, because it's like having an extra lynch. In no way does that motivate no lynching. Getting mavsfan modkilled means we can get two lynches with one night phase instead of two lynches with two night phases.

Pretty sure CMAR is the way to go today.

Vote: CryMeARiver

No folks he didn't provide any reason, but it did come right after this post...

Totally agree with this. His Day 1 posts were scummilicious. I toyed with the idea of voting him in my first post today, but I'd like to see him actually post first.

Dana...

I think that the Tracker is scummy. However, for reasons already mentioned, I find SK scummier. vote:Saint Kerrigan

Could you elaborate on this?

xRex...

Hmm, you're right.

Vote: CryMeARiver

This came after much flipflopping between me and mavs...could you elaborate on this at all

I just need to know why these votes are on me...neither of you gave any reason, so please fill in the blanks

Oh, and in the 2nd post from evilsnail, he is talking about mavsfan

[CryMeARiver]

CMAR [...] NOT HELPING TOWN.

From where did you gather this? Have you read his posts? Why didn't you respond to his Post 182?

His case against Reckoner looks pretty genuine to me... But not in a way that it makes him less scummy. Since nearly all signs point to him being Mafia, I think it's a genuine Mafia-aligned Wolf-hunting attack.

Thank you for at least recognizing that I'm trying to help town...did you mean 282? I don't see how my case against xRex is weak as evilsnail says...
I was flung into a situation where who I replaced did a few scummy things...if Flareonage had turned town, he wouldn't be scummy at all, now would he? I think SK's problem was that everyone was calling for a Flareonage wagon without as much info as there usually is and with only 7 pages of info...I really don't know what else I can do to prove that I'm not scum, so I'll just leave it at that for now

[CryMeARiver]

So nothing I have done has given you a scum impression, just what you gathered from SK?

[CryMeARiver]

So nothing I have done has given you a scum impression, just what you gathered from SK?

That makes me happy that I'm playing good town, but pissed at SK for screwing me (and possibly town)

The only thing that will really save me is a lynch of mavsvan

Unvote
Vote: Mavsfan/No Vote

[CryMeARiver]

Come on guys, we only have a few days left before the deadline and we need a majority to lynch.

If CMAR is not today's lynch, he'll be tomorrow's lynch. It's really a waste to have an extra night phase.

Why are you so dead set on lynching me? Is it because of what I posted above...if so, why did you not even respond to my question...come on now

[CryMeARiver]

Tracker and Cdubs are lurking.

Note this!

Yes, I did notice this as well...Tracker was already a bit suspicious from his posts and now he's lurking...cdubs seemed to have informational, yet rare posts...one of which I really liked...but he's getting suspicious with is lurking as well..dang, everyone's being accused of scumminess

[CryMeARiver]

Shrine, I'm confused...You said...

I want to hear both Tracker's and Cdubs' thoughts before I re-place my vote.

Why do you think I am scum?

[CryMeARiver]

Well you just hammered your Paranoid Gun Owner

[CryMeARiver]

vote: crymeariver

There. I was gone all weekend on surprise double shifts, so I was literally either at work or asleep.

Oh, and I hope someone is going to look into this...he has been gone since the conversation about me and mavsfan started, then comes out and hammers with no reason

[CryMeARiver]

bah...I tried...SK screwed me, but whatever...

LETS GO WEREWOLVES!

[CryMeARiver]

Can the dead post yet?