Open 192: SCIENCE Mafia, Finished

[Pulindar]

Shoot, I got pushed into a hard spot as VT.

OK, Let me reread through this and give me a bit to come up with a good post. I'm leaning towards Flare being scum as well, but I'm thinking I'm going to hold off a bit, longer days always better for town.

[Pulindar]

Wolf, I replaced Cat, not Malp. As for Stranger and Malp/ToD both being Masons, I'm tending to agree, but I know I'm VT, which would make Flare and you Scum. Bussing much?

Still, I think longer days are best for town, and I want to hear from everyone before I hammer your buss. I'm still not 100% sure that those are the real masons, mainly due to the activity amount I saw on the forum so far. Malp never even confirmed that they were daymasons, AND neither "Mason" died during the night. That seems a bit suspicious to me.

[Pulindar]

So you claim, Wolf. But it's a back and forth, we can do it all day. Right now I'm trying to understand why a Mason wasn't killed if they are the real masons.

[Pulindar]

I mean, the scum know who the masons are, well, they know whether SC's claim was true.

SC was definitely protecting Malp, but Malp was never on to admonish the claim. Could that have been expected, SC quick voted Flare with you, which would say that either he's fully confident it's flare as scum, or he's partners with you.

I'm having a hard time believing that you two would go there as you're accusing Flare and Me Wolf. Why are you so dead set on both Flare and me, Why Flare first?

Ok, I need to think again. This is turning circles. You're going after Flare.
Reasons from Wolf:
Flare seems scum due to Hammering quickly.
I don't see any other reasons, but I do see that as scummy.

You're claiming I'm scum.
Reason: You say you believe wholly in the Masons.


Why believe so fully in the masons?
Either you are scum and know whether SC would fake claim, and are going for SC's easier target, or
It goes off my earlier thought were you and SC would be scum but not expecting a Malp reply.

You can't count on something like that though, especially on not getting a replacement like ToD

As for the other mason, Perhaps Pome was a mason and her partner and her didn't want to claim. I don't know. but just a thought.

Still, That doesn't make sense, a counter claim would be best. But with Malp not confirming.... well then it leaves to many things open.

ToD/Malp I'd like your confirmation on whether or not you are masons.

[Pulindar]

Ok, Wolf, you're attacking Flare and me. I Know for a fact I'm VT. and while I'm not 100% sure that SC and ToD are masons, I think they are.

As I've said before, that leave you and Flare as Scum. Why are you attacking Flare, your scum team would win if you got me right now. Flare has an attack on you, you have one on him. I think it's a distancing think, but this is a LyLo situation, as is tomorrow. I prefer to play a cautious game. UGH I should vote Flare. If those tow are mason then it's a sure thing that you two are scum. With Malp/ToD not confirming it just makes me a little nervous. Especially with Wolf Teaming with SC.

Still, I think SC lead the attack on Flare with his post

Considering I want the town to lynch Flareonage if you are town and I die tonight...

But SC didn't die....

Still......

I need that mason confirmation.

[Pulindar]

Sorry for triple post, I'm new to the game in general and this one specific. (I'm in two games right now including this one, and have yet to finish a game) I'm just thinking out loud.

I just read through my other two posts, they are extremely confusing.

Ok

Masons

I believe yes, but am awaiting confirmation.

Flare & Wolf

I believe are the scum team.

Still, why did Wolf not aim for me right off the bat? Killing me would be an instant win with the masons being real.

Fortunately for wolframnhart, Flareonage hammered mykonian very sloppily and never really gave us an adequate explanation for the vote.

Vote: Flareonage

Questions for SC

SC I know you said you were bothered by Flare's hammer, would you have voted for me as swiftly as you did Flare?

Looking at it backwards I think not, but from Wolf's direction, could he have gotten that good of a read on you?

Scum

Flare's defense is terrible, all he did was a OMGUS vote on Wolf, and a Why am I scummy??

Wolf's only really been attacking Flare, focusing on Flare and just lumping us together.

Two LyLo situations in a row give Mafia the power, definitely. Still, it's a sure thing with Flare.

At Mason Pair

I think I'm getting a good understanding, as soon as ToD confirms that you two are masons I'm ready to end the day.

[Pulindar]

Quad post

Ah Duh

I just realized that none of that confirmation was needed. My only reason for thinking you may not be Masons was that I was thinking Malp/ToD may be mason with Pome. animorpherv1 already revealed that Pome was VT. So with no one else claiming then there are no doubts.

Vote: Flare

There's no reason to vote wolf before we vote flare, we need to kill both.

[Pulindar]

Anyway, Flare is L-0 now so I guess we're in twilight.

I'm going to be going on V/LA early tomorrow morning, and it will last until Saturday or Sunday depending. If it lasts longer I'll make sure to put up a message. So, until twilight ends I think we can still talk, anyone have anything they want to say.

[Pulindar]

Oh, really? Interesting.

[Pulindar]

I'm Alive!!

Then again, Wolf you would have been a fool to kill me and leave both masons, that would have led to a definite town win.

Well, Good Game Wolf, I'm enjoying it. I'm voting for you though, and just hoping that StrangerCougar sees the truth.

Vote: Wolf

I think this would have been easier for a town win if Malp had been a bit more active.

Vote count

wolframnhart (1): Pulindar

Not voting (2):StrangerCoug,wolframnhart

With 3 alive it's 2 to lynch!

[Pulindar]

Sorry StrangerCougar, give me a minute to look through the thread again.

[Pulindar]

I'm trying to post, but it's not working!!!

[Pulindar]

It's a little bit difficult for me, I'm new to the game, and Wolf replaced in kinda late. The game's been short so... I'm going to put in everything I think I can. Bare with me though, please.

Before I start on my attack, I would like to defend myself though. You said that Cat was a lurker, I don't really feel that that's true. A lurker is someone who is on, or who is reading the thread and trying to stay passively out. Cat straight out quit. Granted he wasn't nice about it like SK who gave up his role, but Cat was a quitter, not a lurker. I can't help the moment I was brought in. In fact he posted page one, there was a prod at the end of page three, and then cat posted page four and stopped. Your own partner did the same thing. And while it made me nervous about you for a second, well I explained my thoughts in my previous posts, I've been thinking out loud pretty constantly.

Anyway, my attack:

Page four and previous was all SK, I'll do something separate with that. Page five Wolf was misunderstanding who people were, and frankly I don't think it's a page that matters in any argument against him. He was confusing your initials with the initials of the person he replaced.

Page six the Scum (confirmed after death) asked for an explanation and said he didn't intend to read the thread. I think he was asking wolf for one and whether he got one through pms or not I can't know, but there are three hours there so their was time. Wolf, I feel began using the play to distance himself from Scum.

Then Scum got suicidal and random hammered. Myko blamed cat and pom as the two possible scum with Scum, but earlier said they were the scum pair. I'll get into defense again with that later.

Page 7 Wolf quick claimed VT and voted Scum. You already agree Wolf has a good read on you, I feel that he used his skill to make sure that you trusted him by taking out Scum early. In addition even though cat only posted 4 times this whole game and 3 were on page four after a prod and the first was on page 1 to confirm and RV, Wolf Solidly lumped Scum with me to ensure that you would think of us as one and the same.

Also on page 7:

Hmm so the scum waited to the last minute to send in a kill

I can confirm this part, but not the rest.

LoL you don't even have to confirm this part.

Noting that Deadline IS TOMORROW, at about 4:00 PM EST. And the mafia STILL HAVEN'T SENT ME AN ACTION.

Had you not posted that I would have never known.

To me, this seems like he's trying to deny this too strongly, honestly. At this point there were no living accusations on him, yet he went out of the way to point out that he wasn't scum. A good move to make you feel more comfortable, but still.


There are two things I must do that I don't want to, I am going to analyze SK and try to find proof through him, and I am going to analyze the night kills.

[Pulindar]

SK analysis first:

I think a little more caution is called for simply because its already an endgame situation with only 7P.

How is it already an endgame situation?

Unvote: Cat. Vote: MrWhereItsAt.

I think that this was a slight instance of distancing from Scum, but it could have been random. Still it smells like distancing, why else do an inconsequential vote on your partner. No one else took it as big, so what were the real chances that SK considered it a big deal?

Small obviously because SK then jumped quickly from Scum to start the Myko wagon, still she did explain a decent reason and honestly reading it I would have been suspicious of Myko. At this point I would have thought between Myko, Malp, SK, and Scum.

Still page 2:
Cat definitely seems lurky right now. I find it interesting that two of my suspects, Malp and Myko, would have been on SK at that time, both flipped town. as well as yourself. If SK was indeed Town, and three town were on SK, couldn't Cat have hammered? Then again I guess the Scum could have as well.

and wait a minute:

myk votes StK
StK votes myk
StK asks the rest of the town what they think of it.

which is making me like SaintKerrigan more and you less.

Unvote: SaintKerrigan since it was missed not once, but twice (it was in post #44)
Vote: mykonian

This difference between the Town member, Myko; and the scum member, SK. They were opposed. Though to be fair this is grabbing at straws. I've seen townies go at each other before. Still, SK was pushing at him yet trying to not vote for him and make it all her fault.

Mr's post which only answered a question, after which he went out again.

Again, nothing strange with it, especially since I understand the urge of football myself. On an unrelated note, GO PACK GO!!!

Pome's voting density argument

Personally, I think Pom's argument is not a good one. Scum may be trying to hop on wagons, but just because a person slaps his vote around doesn't mean that he's scum.

Another question for you: How was my vote against MrWhereItsAt opportunistic? He didn't have any votes on him at the time, and I've already explained the reason why I voted him (and how it since became pointless).

I think this is a clearing of both Scum with a setup for a townie lynch day two. After the distancing earlier with the Scum through the vote, SK then was trying to make the Scum seem innocent. At the same time SK set up Pom to be the object of suspicion. I feel that the only reason this didn't work out was because of the two replacements.

On the other hand, you're starting to look less like conniving scum and more like overaggressive town.

Unvote: Mykonian.

I'm not inclined at the moment to vote anyone else.

Pomegranate has some explaining to do regarding her vote spread argument. Just what made you think that the vote spread argument was a good reason to vote Mykonian, Pom?

Not wanting to be a strong proponent of a townie lynching wagon, and a setup for the next lynch in my opinion. This also made Myko feel SK was townier, and start to suspect Pom more. A dying townie’s last suspicions are often listened too, I’ve read past games, and it seems like a common occurance, it at least casts suspicions on the person. While SK was able to protect himself by already planting the seeds of doubt in everyone else voting, which kept you on Myko without suspecting SK for starting it and then for leaving to place doubts on another proven townie.

[Pulindar]

The main reason for a vote on Cat from both SK and Myko on was for lurking, and for agreeing with Pom, a declared townie. The page they voted for cat was page four, The only page other than page one where he actually posted. Yes he agreed in general with Pom’s argument, but the lines SK drew and Myko commented on, with them as a scum pair was obviously false, because Pom was Townie. Then Cat just plain quit the game. Because he never answered Myko’s questions Myko kept suspecting him, but Cat wasn’t there to answer them. Everyone was also suspecting Malp, who only survived because you claimed Mason with Malp. I, as VT, Unfortunately, don’t have anyone to back up my claim.

Then on page five, after all this was drawn by SK:

SaimtKerrigan has reuqested replacement. Hoping to get someone soon

Night kill:

Hmm so the scum waited to the last minute to send in a kill

I can confirm this part, but not the rest.

Let's put it this way, they are the real masons.

Why?

because no one counter claimed them

The most likely situation of why they were not killed?
Because Cat was not around to tell Flare what a mason means. Flare barely sent in a night kill in time, and picked a random person, completely missing the obvious kill of a mason he should have done.

Get rid of Pom early makes it so that there is only one townie to focus on. Everyone knew that the Scum was scum, so Wolf had to go along with that. Like I said earlier, I think he read you on that and went full forward with a strong buss. It was a good play, Wolf’s a smart cookie for sure. Still, earlier you asked why would Wolf kill Pom and not you or Malp. Well, because even though you guys were Masons, he knew how you would play. I don’t think he felt as confident about Pom’s play. Also, if he didn’t kill Pom then there would be more suspects for later. We would take more time discussing things. Pom’s presence would take away from a case against me, and my presence from a case against her. Still, Cat was weaker than Pom, so it was obvious, kill Pom not Cat.
Also, I think he wanted to be able to point at the kill and claim it wasn’t him. Obviously couldn’t have been him. Etc etc. Say that it was scummy for not being on and blame Cat for his lurkiness based on the later submission. But the Scum was on, Flare could have voted any of those days, at any point along that deadline, why didn’t he? Flare cast his die quickly earlier, someone must have been holding him back, someone smart must have been controlling the action. Since I know that Wolf is remaining scum, I know that he was probably the mastermind.

Second NK was your partner, Wolf already has you more convinced of his innocence than I do, I think he left you alive because he believed that you would follow his lead. all Wolf needed to do was manipulate the you, and with cat quitting without warning (Just like Malp) he had the game in the bag. I believe he’s trying to rush through the game now that I’m here so that not much can be brought up. I hope you make the right decision, for Town’s sake. Good luck on this StrangerCougar (btw do you prefer StrangerCougar, Stranger Cougar, or StrangerCoug?)

[Pulindar]

Hello mod, everyone. Sorry for so many posts in a row.

I tried to get 205, 206, and 207 in a single post.

I've literally been working on posting that single post for over 3 hours. and worked on it for nearly an hour, since post 203 to be exact

Mod please delete the repeat posts of 210, 209, and 208. They're all just repeat of 207.

I think this site and firefox have some issues, I'm going to find a new browser to use for this site, this was ridiculous. It seems if I try to make a long post it never works

[Pulindar]

Yeah. The VT knows everybody at this point.

Yeah, you're the only one out of the loop, unfortunately.

I have to go to work, so let me think this over and I'll vote when I get back.

I'm leaving a day late for Cally, so I'll be on, but today is my final day on till Sunday or Monday

[Pulindar]

. It's a pointless post and the "I'm Alive!!" part screams scum.

Mmm too true. It was pointless. Honestly I see what you mean about it seeming scummy, and in SC's shoes I think I'd suspect it as well.

We both knew that we both would live through the night, I don't have any excuse for why I said it, because I didn't expect to need an excuse. I didn't even think about it really when typing it. No scum would actually leave both masons alive, unless he counted on Malp never showing and a no lynch due to the deadline.

but yeah, it was pointless, I know that, but it's not something I can take back, so I guess I just have to accept your point.

I have a question Wolf

Wolf, can you think of a good scum reason for either of us to kill StrangerCougar instead of Malp?

you can answer or not as you choose, I feel that for this specific game we already know we're not aligned, and you may just wish to focus on answering StrangerCougar's questions.

[Pulindar]

hmm, good answer. I like that logic.



I must say, I'm enjoying competing against you Wolf. I'd like to join another game with you in it. You're very clear, and logical. I'd like to have you as either an enemy or an ally, or even not know whether you're that. I'm new, but it's definitely a learning experience playing with you guys.

[Pulindar]

@ Wolf: I think I explained myself, I was thinking on the page pretty openly. A big part of my questioning the mason was that Malp never backed it up, and I wasn't thinking clearly. I even said that I thought one of the mason's may already have been dead, then later when I hammered Flare, I said that I realized it would have told us if they were masons.

it is difficult to tell a person to go with their gut (assuming your gut means to vote Pulindar) and ignore logic.

Yeah, I think gut means that he'd lynch me. SC is asking you to help him go with his gut after all.

If for some reason one of my posts has made you think scum in your logic please point it out so I may explain before you drop the hammer on either of us.

Likewise please. Also, as far as everything goes it seems better just to do this anyway. We are all players, and allowing explanations keeps people from getting mad at the player.


@ SC
Um, any questions you do have for me could you ask tonight? I leave for LA in the morning and won't be able to access this till I get there if I don't post tonight. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[Pulindar]

Yeah, you not having much material to work with is also what gives you the advantage in StrangerCougar's gut. Cat wasn't on. It puts you at a disadvantage logically, I'll admit I had tons more to work with than you did. Still, it puts me at a disadvantage from an intuition stand point.



A Question Wolf, If you were in SC's exact place, do you know how you would vote?

Honestly in his place I'm not sure where I would vote. I might flip a coin to decide, but that would bother me because then I'd just be going with a coin and I shouldn't bet a game like this on chance like that.

Still, it might help me choose which one I was truly leaning too, whether I accepted the coin result or not.

I'm asking otu of pure curiosity, because I tried to think of it from his perspective and I really have no idea which way he'll lean.

[Pulindar]

Sorry, you were wrong

Scum won.

[Pulindar]

You guys should have Read Ani's flavor text from the first night, that basically sealed the deal against me.

As for why I killed Malp/ToD rather than Stranger, well two reasons. Number one I didn't want anyone else to read through the flavor, and neither SC nor Wolf had. And number two it would have been two random. and I wouldn't have known when he was going to join. I'm moving tomorrow, and just couldn't spare the time to wait.


@Flare: Thanks for letting me hammer you.


@Wolf and Stranger: I hope there are no hard feelings. In my mind you both did well, and I was having an extremely difficult time.

oh and btw MY FIRST MAFIA GAME COMPLETION EVER!!

So that's one, just one more game aand I can sign up as SE

[Pulindar]

Sorry again StrangerCougar I prefer to be town or third party to being scum. I've not played them, but I'm sure I prefer them. I don't enjoy the lying.

During the night, the 2 remaining mafia huddeled to decide their kill for the night. Should it be StrangerCoug, the claimed mason? malpascp, the lurker? wolfamnhart, the newbie, or Pomegegranate, the girl?

Still, it was a fun experience. I want to be on your guys' side next time

[Pulindar]

Oh, by the way, I always post like that, I sorta had an advantage with my posting style. You see I have an English degree, and it's taught me to make my faulty logic seem better.

Also, Wolf, I tried to be polite when arguing against you. This is my first finished game; I really tried to keep my decorum when lying about your motives . I felt you did the same with me. Sorry for exasperating you so much.

While we're on this, do we get a rematch? This WAS a fun setup.

I call VT or Mason.

I know another person on this site who hates being pretty much anything but VT.

I'd like to have a role, not cop usually, but doctor, doctor would be a fun role to have.

And if I have hard feelings against anybody, it's myself. I must be cursed with being a bad Mafia player or something like that.

I've read some of your games, I did the homework on you, and Wolf as well. I sorta used it against you. In the end though I really was not sure which way you were going to go. I would have had a difficult time if I were you as well. As I said before, I'm not sure which way I would have went if I were in your same position. I would have tried reasoning it out both ways.

[Pulindar]

I merely created false logic, but yeah, I guess it did work out in the end. Still, next time you're scum kill a known mason.

Hello Pom, Sorry I didn't get to actually play with you, I replaced in to late

[Pulindar]

/in as well, it should be fun.

I should note that I leave early tomorrow morning and won't be back until sunday or monday, So take that into consideration for acceptance.