Cot damn it dramo didn't tell me this was 40 pages lol. I'll see what I can do. I'm gonna be cliche and say that if anyone wants to direct me to a post/concern, I'll give thoughts on it, if it helps move the phase along. I'll do a pbp thing like tomorrow night. Probably won't get higher than page 10.kikuchiyo wrote:Kise should chime in with a day 1 analysis
Open 184: Friends and Enemies Mafia (Over)
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Kise Jack of All Trades
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They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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Kise Jack of All Trades
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Kise Jack of All Trades
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Kise Jack of All Trades
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It's kinda creepy when I click on a thread and see I'm being talked about... Chill, all. I'm making progress. My other games are in night phase mostly so I've been here all day.
If you all need an update, I'm on the page where ABR and hewitt are going at it. At least when they first start going at it since I'm not sure how long this keeps up. I'll post "content" when I've read up to the current page. I'm thinking in a few hours unless I'm tired.They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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Kise Jack of All Trades
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Wasn't online yesterday. Not even on youtube, promise.
No, from September to earlier this month, I've been in flooded with school work, and lurking hard on MS. School wrapped up and I had about a week before christmas. I don't celebrate any kind of special occasion, but I spent time with my family for the most part. Things have settled down so my activity pattern will be drastically different until I get back into school next month.Ellibereth wrote:I didn't formally get any numbers on Kise's games, but he seems to be far more active when given a town power role...too lazy to go get concrete numbers, maybe later.
And how come I'm not as active when I'm a mafia power role? *strokes beard* Better yet, show me where I'm less active as vanilla townie. I prefer if you pick a game of mine before September 17th.
In all my games with saber, I'm surprised he was considerate enough to do a statistical list about lynches/mislynches that were possible. Never played a game where he was anti-town but lining up mason-claims on consecutive days isn't something I'd expect him to do. Daytalking scum could have suggested this in the QT. If he's a mason himself and was just trying to throw everyone off, it's more understandable. Sorta like throwing out an idea for his partners in case he's not around. Pestering hewitt to make a [RVS] vote doesn't help me believing the latter.IGMEOwhoever replaced him. (will check later)
Kind of off-topic, but Neto and ABR would make great Jesters.
hewitt doesn't look too good, commentary-wise. Yet, I don't think many players with a scum role would flood entire pages like this day 1. I always thought the predictable strategy was to coast through day 1 and avoid attention.
DLA gives me bad vibes. Same with CSL. Not exactly diving into conversations themselves; simply commenting on what others talk about. Not saying they have to get into arguments with others, but have some 1-on-1s, or 1-on-many. Get gangbanged like hewitt if that's what it takes.
FOS:DLA & CSL, The Abbreviated.
LMFAO @ the mod asking for someone else to do a vote count.
Interesting that Neto earlier said he didn't like saber's attacks on hewitt. Later when it's hewitt-versus-Albert, Neto doesn't hammer and wants questions answered first. He request a deadline extension when hewitt is quite close to a lynch.. I have to wonder what it is he wanted to delay -- More specifically, I'm wondering if he wanted to keep hewitt from being lynched. He later doesn't even vote for either, instead going off to play with Elli'.
HOS:hewitt
I'll post more if the thread isn't locked.They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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Kise Jack of All Trades
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Ah, it works. ^__^Ellibereth wrote:I see your avatar and it makes me forgive you.
I'm good, thanks. I prioritize which game I give attention based on which one I haven't posted in a while. I'm caught up in all but 1 other game that I just replaced into.DarkLightA wrote:Don't overload yourself Kise, better to be active in 1 game than constantly lurking in 5.
{Self-Reminder: 19}They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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Kise Jack of All Trades
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Alright so I'm Yarmond & Kittomo; Serial is CSL; Scigatt is saberwolf; Ojajen is Konowa/someone else (yes?)
Even if Shotty flips town, I think SCkikuchiyo wrote:Kise: The main point I am trying to make is that Serial believs both Shotty and myself are scum. His case against me pretty much "requires" Shotty to be scum, while the case he made against Shotty stands fine on its own imo. For some reason, Serial seems reluctant to lynch Shotty. His main reasoning for this as I recall, is that he believes scumkiku is attempting to tie townSerial to scumShotty, and trying to lynch scumShotty to frame townSerial. Its actually a bit convoluted when you think of it, but now I'm off track.
The fact is, it reads as "self preservation" to me. Self preservation is much more of a scumtell than a towntell imo. Granted, roles like "cop" and "doc" are town roles which at times require self preservation type play. But this is an open set-up. There are still two townies out there who can confirm each other. There is no real reason for vanilla townies to act in an overly self preserving manner, especially if they think they have caught scum. If Serial really believes Shotty is scum, then he shouldn't be so hesitant to lynch him. But he is hesitant and he seems to have even had to talk himself into voting me instead of Shotty.is scumwith someone else.
Kill me tonight if you want a better chance of surviving tomorrow. I iso'd CSL for shits and giggles and he's as good as claimed scum. Then Albert psychology makes you admit to being partners with Neto. How that was passed off today, I don't know. It won't be overlooked tomorrow.SerialClergyman wrote:It's not a policy lynch if he's genuinely scummy. That sort of posting pattern isn't lurking, it's actively not posting. He's probably scum.
My predecessors look like George Clooney compared to CSL. Get real. Don't think I haven't noticed you're riding my back due to lurking.SerialClergyman wrote:Kise NEEDS to be grilled tomorrow no matter what the shotty flip.
having three separate people flake is much more scummier than one, and it's been for two copmlete days AND the content that we've had has been shocking.
We can do better than a policy lynch on hewitt. Don't try to excuse a hewitt-wagon as anything other than justified.SerialClergyman wrote:Albert is town.
I have no idea on hewitt. If I thought ABR was scum, I'd be sure Hewitt was town, but I'm almost certain he's not. The OMGUS is to be expected after an ABR rampage (especially if, as it seems from his post, he didn't quite get what ABR was about). Not the worst lynch in the world, actually. Deserved to have been policy lynched for quoting ABR's entire iso
No. He was scummy. And bad, sure. I'm pegging Konowa as a false suspicion... What, because Konowa attacked only a handful of players he's top 3 scum choice? Where was hewitt in this list? Better yet, where is hewitt now?SerialClergyman wrote:Top picks for scum, Shotty, Konowa, Neto.
Top picks for town, ABR, farside.
CSL was bad, not scummy. He's been replaced, get on with the game.
CSL did read like defeated scum. He had 3 other players voting for him before his self-vote.SerialClergyman wrote:Defeatist =/= scummy. It also isn't similar to when he was defeated as scum and was upbeat, jovially said that they got him and cheered on his team.
No, self-voting is the scummiest thing here. It's even worse when the replacing player (you) gets defeated in a game of mind-chess by Albert.SerialClergyman wrote:Actually, KittyMo replaced that guy who hasn't said a single thing all game and hasn't caught up, apparently. That surely has to be one of the scummiest slots in the game.
Oh, look. Neto's coming to SC's aid after Albert ethered him. And, then look right below that! SC is having a casual convo with one of his top 3 scumspects about Albert supposedly joking. I never joke with someone I think is scum.
Just sayingThey have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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Kise Jack of All Trades
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You two must have went over distancing in your QT last night . I also noticed you have a habit of getting cozy with SC here. Is there a story on you two outside of this game? I think that'd help me.Ojanen wrote:@Serial, thank you for that. Ugh. I hate that I really want you to be town this game. Symptoms of a white knight syndrome or something.
I actually sympathize with your scumread on Kise/Kittymo with a degree of caution, if I had to call it right now it would be Kise/Scigatt.
Was DLA in hammering range?farside22 wrote:I'm not sure why kise is focused on Hewitt as scum do to Neto withholding his vote. Neto withheld his vote on DLA< CSL and hewitt. Just saying
Nah I'm looking at SC based on his interactions & slips against Albert, plus CSL's behavior doesn't help. SC tried to lie to me and say that CSL self-voted when he wasn't in trouble... Well, hello!? CSL had 3 votes (iirc) on him before he self-voted. SC tried to mislead me at the end of yesterday and that only further digs him in the hole as far as I'm concerned.farside22 wrote:That's basically all I have from kise. He is attacking SC based on Hewitt being probable scum with Neto and pushing Hewitt as scum based on the L-1 where neto said he would hammer but didn't.
Scigatt/saberwolf isn't pinging my scumdar at the moment. DLA and hewitt make me cringe. I'd put Serial & hewitt together as the likelier team -- farside just pointed out Neto's neglect to hammer hewitt as he instead went off to vote for someone else AFTER saying he would decide whether he should pick hewitt or Albert's side. Right now we only need 2 more scum, so DLA is on the backburner a bit. Serial and hewitt are my bets. I'm not comfortable with your recent coming of aid to Serial, but I'll reserve judgment on that until you answer my above question.Ojanen wrote:@Kise: Your slot needs emergency content.What do you think about Scigatt, hewitt and DLA? Do you have other suspects besides Serial?
NO MORE QUESTIONS UNTIL I AM CAUGHT UP PLEASE
I'm in the page 20 mark and will be updating my opinions on everything done thus far in the game. I will let it be known when I am on the current page.
(That is correct, I didn't read anything overnight)They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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Then why was it a no-go, I have to wonder[?]Netopalis wrote:Since D1 lynches are traditionally worse than random, it would seem to me that the best course of action is to lynch a player that will be the least useful on D2, but will still provide reads on players. To me, DLA and Hewitt satisfy this bill.
Neto has since flipped scum. Thoughts on this, anyone?saberwolf wrote:To be clear, I've always felt Neto is the biggest pro-town player we have. He is really good at putting pressure and making good posts. Do not vote for Neto.
Page 33. What I've learned so far is that DLA's reads are not dependable and Ellibereth can't settle on his stance for anything in this world. And Serial is still scum.
Albert B. Rampage wrote:
Scummy as hell. Clergyman, you've been stroking my e-dick all game praising me as town and talented, and here you accuse me ofSerialClergyman wrote:Yeah, look, Elli just rained on my parade pretty damn hard to be honest... Are the mafia daytalkers in this game? I wouldn't put it past you to have organised that just to put me in my place...being scum with Ellibereth.For your information, there is no day-talking in this setup, but your quick, careless turnaround is proof that you're a scumbag mascaraing in sheep's clothing.SerialClergyman wrote:ABR - I was saying that the bus was MY bus of NETO, because you've been linking us together as scum. It was a JOKE, as indicated by the yellow grinning man.
Classic.Albert B. Rampage wrote:Albert B. Rampage wrote:You joked about bussing your partner Neto? Is that it?
So you're admitting that Neto is your partner.SerialClergyman wrote:Yes, I did.
So far, I feel like settling for an SC lynch. Neto makes a post sympathizing with players that replace in. It's laughable to think mafia have a heart. He's probably trying to tap into everyone's emotions and get them to back off of SC, at least for D1. A lot of things point back to Serial as scum from proven scum [Neto]. I can't wait to see why Shotty got strung up instead yesterday.Ellibereth wrote:Not sure if anyone's mentioned this yet, but CSL has self-voted as scum here
His tone is almost the same as here.
I'll be happy lynching Neto or SC today. They're both scum.
You would hate to lose a scum player here? Rephrase this as if I was a nuclear retard, because.. well, just type slow or something. Put this in other words for me.Ojanen wrote:Serialis prob town. I would HATE to lose to him if he's scum so I'm harboring an extra layer of paranoia to the guy.They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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Kise Jack of All Trades
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But why didn't Neto hammer him? Why did Neto instead go vote for someone else?farside22 wrote:Hewitt was almost strung up and neto talked about hammering him based on nothing at all. This has me leaning town on hewitt instead of scum.They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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You sure CSL and DLA were at L-1? I don't recall either being put in those positions. Thing is, Neto completely dropped the hewitt thing as if he forgot about it. He didn't even say, "well I changed my mind; I think hewitt looks townie." He just.... neglected it all together.They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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Kise Jack of All Trades
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OOOOOOOHHH. I thought you typed, "I would hate to lose Serial if he's scum." My mistake.
I took today off from catching up, tee hee hee. As you can see, I'm posting like crazy all around the site. In fact, I will not be online tomorrow or at least not while the sun is out. What I planned to do & have done today is position myself into the current convo so I'm at least apart of discussion going on. I like that feeling; not being stuck in the past and having people wait on you.
Additionally, I feel like I've read enough to know I want hewitt and Serial lynched. I want to see one of them flip scum so that (while I'm reading old stuff) I know whether I'm reading their posts from mafia's perspective. What I see happening is hewitt's replacement coming in and being met by my tunnel-vision. It's not so much about hewitt appearing like frustrated townie. It's that Neto didn't put him away after implying he would pick either hewitt or ABR's side while hewitt was at L-1, and vice versa.
Farside, you have to understand that mafia can give the appearance of genuine frustration also. If everyone here decided to have a hissy fit, would you read us all as frustrated townie? Mafia can AtE in ways that aren't even direct. It's their job to make you view them in a certain light.They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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This is another double-edged sword I'm not favoring: Hewitt as frustrated townie and Neto not wanting to be a part of the mislynch, while similarly at least one scum did not want to be apart of bussing Neto.
Farside, I respect any player who's been doing this since '07 or however long, but the gameplans change often. We treat it like protocol that mafia has to play the same every game, when really games are not as predictable as we'd expect. Far, are you sticking with the opinion that hewitt is town?They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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So... hewitt wasn't at L-1, again, you say?Netopalis wrote:Wow....Sorry, folks, I've been insanely busy as of late. Cases to come later tonight. Suffice it to say thta I really am not liking Ellibereth right now for her posts which just barely avoid replacement. I also don't like her putting Hewitt at L-1 without clearly stating a reason.They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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farside22 wrote:unvote
vote: CSLAlbert B. Rampage wrote:??
Unvote, vote CSL
(DLA accidentally listed saber so this quote is edited as it should be, FYI)DarkLightA wrote:Unofficial Vote Count based on Albert's unofficial vote count in post 369
CSL (2) - farside22, Albert
Shotty to the Body wrote:Ridiculous, fine. DLA tomorrow.
unvote vote CSL
There were others voting him, but they unvoted and went elsewhere. So, yeah, I'd say CSL is in trouble when he's got people that won't unvote for 4-5 pages.CSL wrote:Eh, I'd replace out, but it wouldn't do anyone any good, now will it?
The only way I'd get out of this game is if IUnvoteand quite possiblyVote: CSL
Raffle.danakillsu wrote:
Does that mean I can join the game?This is an open game.
I need to figure out whether the team is hewitt-farside or SC-Ojajen... remind me gals, why am I scummy to you?They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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Ah shit... just checked, you didn't lie to me. I mistook one of your old post (from December 11th, before I was even apart of the game) as something you recently said towards me to excuse CSL's self-vote.
That's why I hate reading old shit.Kise (Dec 28) wrote:
CSL did read like defeated scum. He had 3 other players voting for him before his self-vote.SerialClergyman (Dec 11) wrote:Defeatist =/= scummy. It also isn't similar to when he was defeated as scum and was upbeat, jovially said that they got him and cheered on his team.
RE: New Pairings: Isn't it obvious? Scum would want to keep their partners alive, so farside's revelationtodaythat hewitt is town makes my nose twitch. On the other side, Ojajen has been right beneath your wings, Serial. I tend to think scum wouldn't blatantly buddy up, but it could be one of those new mindtricks I've talked about.
What's to say Neto's weak reasoning for contemplating a hewitt-hammer wasn't a tactic to discredit the wagon? I don't see why it's so friggin' far fetched to believe that scum need sloppy reasons to bus their partners. I always see scum hammer their partners and at least recycle cases the other players make.
{Off-Topic}
Serial, what made you think I was a PR in that old New York game of ours?They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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I've suspected hewitt since the end of day 2:
Which reminds me, if hewitt is town, he would have died at deadline. Neto requested a deadline extension which would have prevented that. So if we're seeing this the same, Neto wanted hewitt-town to live? I don't see why he would give a crap when he could have just not even been bothered to request it. I can quote Neto's request for extension to prove this.Kise (Dec 28) wrote:hewitt doesn't look too good, commentary-wise. Yet, I don't think many players with a scum role would flood entire pages like this day 1. I always thought the predictable strategy was to coast through day 1 and avoid attention.
Interesting that Neto earlier said he didn't like saber's attacks on hewitt. Later when it's hewitt-versus-Albert, Neto doesn't hammer and wants questions answered first. He request a deadline extension when hewitt is quite close to a lynch.. I have to wonder what it is he wanted to delay -- More specifically, I'm wondering if he wanted to keep hewitt from being lynched. He later doesn't even vote for either, instead going off to play with Elli'.
HOS:hewitt
It's weird that you [SC] suspect hewitt also (as of today, you said?), but it's not deterring me. Looking at worst case scenario, town loses with two mislynches plus two nightkills. Compared to DLA, farside, OJ, Elli and Scigatt, I'm still leaning hewitt/SC as I don't see both being mislynches. Even with the little accomplished by Scigatt, the interactions of Neto don't make me view Sci as scum.
Vote: hewitt
For what it's worth, hewitt said a few days before D1 ended that he didn't find Neto scummy, then when the lynch is inevitable he kinda agrees with it, but doesn't drop the hammer.
Farside, you say I'm the scum that wasn't on Neto's wagon... Well, who's the scum thatwason the wagon?They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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Am I wrong in thinking that the rules say if no one has reached lynch-threshold, then the first person with highest # of votes is lynched at deadline? (this won't change my mind drastically about hewitt-scum but right now I'm thinking that hewitt could have been deadline-lynched unless I'm not understanding the rules)
RE: DLA:
He's been all over the place but English is likely not his 1st language. His opinions come across as genuine (from the heart) and not from the mindset of scum wanting to meet their objective hastily. In fact, if he was scum, I'd expect him to be the type to bandwagon rather than try and make a case. I don't think I'm wrong in saying he's been the first to vote for a player he thought was scum/scummy. Mind you, I'm taking into account that he's from Norway.
Your re-reads are kinda screwy, farside.
You forgot DLA. Keep scrolling down.farside22 wrote:Vote Count
Hewitt (3) - Shotty, Albert, Ellibereth
CSL places the 5th vote on hewitt, then Elli places the 6th vote, THEN DLA unvotes and votes for Elli AFTER Neto mentions DL-extension & hammering.Albert B. Rampage wrote:Hewitt (4) : DarkLightA, Albert B. Rampage, Shotty to the body, saberwolf
Why did you unvote? Please vote hewitt again.CSL wrote:...Unvote
You both are scumtells, and nulltells...Gah, I can't decide.
You know what, hewitt's play smells slightly like AtE...
I don't know what to think of ABR.They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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hewitt has 3 votes according to your votecount, farside, so still....Netopalis wrote:Oh, I should probably point out for everyone, this game doesn't follow the normal no-lynch-at-deadline rule - it uses the half-votes system, meaning that if any one player has 3 or more votes at deadline, that player would be lynched except in LYLO.They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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In other words, not fluent with an American-English dialect. Words are not structured the same. I remember seeing Albert & Neto joke about DLA's language earlier, and he kinda reminds me of mykonia.
Anyway, there are the 4 votes right there + CSL & Ellibereth. From here on down to post 286, Neto is doing all this hibbery jibbery which includes the request for extension to buy hewitt time.
This was after DLA pursued Ellibereth (so, again, kudos to DLA for starting a case and not following). To me, it looks like Neto won't bother coming back to the ABR-hewitt situation. But really, when he does make his next post, Neto decides to go against ABR and says that he'll reread hewitt. As you just said, Elli, Neto never gets back around to that reread.Netopalis wrote:Unvote, Vote: Ellibereth
Last few posts show a disconnect with the game, a borderline criminal lack of knowledge and a lack of original thought.They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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Well I will say this for those waiting on a replacement: I was personally asked by dram to enter the game, so it's likely that people aren't checking the queue out of interest to join an ongoing game. The best bet for replacements seem to be via referral.They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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Whoever unvoted SC earlier (and you, farside), would you consider hewitt or SC more? I didn't know SC is at L-4, so support for that lynch looks easier.
It's just like with SC. He replaced into the game and played the pimp to redeem his slot. Serial, just as Albert said, is a good mastermind when he's on a mafia team. Waiting for him to make scumslips will not help you lynch him if he's scum; at best, you have to determine a relationship based on dead scum like I'm viewing Neto-hewitt. Neto's interactions with Shotty appeared in a case used against him mid-day 2.Ojanen wrote:I'm sorry guys, when I read hewitt I just don't see that much scum. Just don't.
OJ, a few things stick out about day 2 now that I've read. My slot is being attacked (easy unresponsive target) by SC off the bat when there was nothing much said from my predecessors to warrant his labels. An interesting exchange with kiku leads to SC being attacked for not "engaging" KittyMo as he claimed to have done, as well as him stating his [heavy] suspicion of my slot is due to KM placing top suspicion on a current wagon (Neto) whichhedoesn't feel is a general action for townies replacing into a game -- on top of my first predecessor not posting at all and Kitty only posting content once.
Another thing, OJ, is your persistent aiding of Serial. There are times where you imitate him and ask me about my catching up when no one else relentlessly bothers me as much as you two, keep in mind. You mentioned earlier that you had a game or two with SC, but I don't get why that explains how you two are kind of buddying up here. On the surface it looks like Ether & Patrick, but since this relationship is only 2 games or so, I'm not comfortable with your trust of each other when there's only one mason left.
There were good suspicions and points raised against SC and hewitt by living players here, and I'm curious to know if they can be picked back up. It's rehashing, but if there's been enough said from other active players about other living players, go for it.
Serial disputes this. DLA, can you show where you say SC defended Neto?DarkLightA wrote:1. CSL gets in trouble. Neto joins the attack.
2. CSL gets replaced. Neto goes "Yay" and pulls away the attack.
3. SC is still in trouble. Neto goes "Don't lynch him!!"
4. SC is still in trouble. Neto goes "Is it fair to judge his character by the replacee? (LOL)
5. Neto gets in trouble for defending the band wagoned guy. NETO STOPS DEFENDING SC.
6. SC DEFENDS NETO.
7. Neto get's lynch as scum.
Lynching hewitt still holds weight but I'm thinking SC may hold more.-
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As a reminder, here's SC's reason for voting Neto:
Very likely to be the scum that was on the wagon. How much more until I can convince you about SC, farside?SerialClergyman wrote:
I gave some quotes afterwards to show what I meant. It was in my first content post. I believe it was also the first case posted on Neto, although nowhere near as extensive as Ojanen's excellent one. I'll take the hit to the ego and say he wasn't my top suspect and it wasn't the bullseye that Ojanen's was, but it'll go down in my little black book as a correct read, so can't complain.Neto is also a good chance of flipping scum. He's been voting the same lynchbait targets as would be expected. Suggested a policy lynch without having the balls to actually say lets policy lynch someone, which is a scumtell in my eyes. He did have the balls to vote Albert though, which redeems him slightly, because bringing blue-eyed wrath upon oneself isn't always the best option.-
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How long until you modkill a slot? And if you did make a modkill for inactivity, could the day continue going?
I'm willing to make a deal with ya, dramoderator. If I find a replacement for Scigatt, can you MK hewitt?
I want to put 'lol', 'j/k' or a smiley face but I'm.. serious.They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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It's not really dealt with because kiku still wanted to go after you. Shotty made a slip by showing how neglectful he was to the thread so he got jumped on, understandably. And again, there were great points used against you, but the curiosity of whether Shotty & kiku's point of views could be trusted got in the way.ScumClergyman wrote:Part of the motivation for me wanting to lynch Kise over Hewitt is that he's constantly bringing this sort of stuff up that is old and dealt with.
This will tell me something about DLA and his mindset back then. In case you missed it, I read the thread. If I saw it myself, I wouldn't bother asking. There was a time where you quasidefended Neto but it was before the sequence that DLA listed.ScumClergyman wrote:actually go do the work yourself rather than calling DLA out to back up a case he made weeks ago.-
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If DLA was unjust for making that order in his list, I'll know based on what he returns. If he does show that you defended Neto close to the end of the day, you're scummier, duh.
Two mislynches & two inevitable nightkills get scum a victory. However, if hewitt is modkilled and flips town and the day continues, then it'll STILL be two mislynches before scum can win, thus we won't have to waste a lynch on possible townie. I'd rather that slot be modkilled so these next two lynches can be used elsewhere.They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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It's day 3. There are 8 players; 6 townies, 2 mafia. A day 3 1 mislynch + N3 kill + D4 mislynch + N4 kill = 2 townies, 2 mafia = mafia victory.
A modkill puts us at 7 players. If hewitt is one of the town, then a mislynch + nightkillafterhis MK puts the game into 5-player lylo.They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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@farside - Out of courtesy. He probably would not have been lynched before getting a word out, but nonetheless I'll wait and hear Budja out. Hewitt is scum to me based on everything I went over with him and Neto's behavior -- Neto avoiding putting the hammer on hewitt, Neto requesting a deadline when "town" hewitt could have easily been plurality-lynched, and their minor references to each other where they don't view the other as scum.
On the other hand, I am extremely uncomfortable with this SC and OJ relationship, even if they're good friends. If both are town (not my thinking), then they need to ask themselves whether bias is influencing their opinion of the other. If one is town and the other scum, they are jeopardizing the game by using personal trust (white knight syndrome) and it's misunderstood by me. If both are scum, then they haven't been doing a good job of keeping their relationship away from plain sight.
Looking at Albert's efforts, I believe he was onto something with CSL/SC, and others shared thoughts that SC's slot was anti-town. SC has been picking at my slot easily when there was nothing to go on other than thatonemeaningful post from Kitty. Then when I become more active, he comes up with a new reason why he thinks I'm scum and I'm not buying it.
@OJ - My read of DLA changed when I saw hewitt and SC as the two living goons. My feelings that they are mafia is more confident than the bad feelings I got from DLA. As for why I'm speaking of voting SC instead of hewitt, it's because I recently read day 2 and I don't like how you and him practically co-op with each other. First SC asks me how I'm doing, then you ask me how my read is going right beneath him. Neither of you suspect the other and also neglect to mention your out-of-game relationshipuntil today, which I imagine mafia doing both while reviewing their posts overnight in a preemptive way to speak on their image before the town brings it up. I can see a connection with you and SC more than I do SC and hewitt.
The more I read back on things, the more I twitch.
I didn't even deliver my thoughts on the game so far and this came across to me as pressure. As a matter of fact, you were pestering me at the end of day 2 to post content. If you were fine with me hammering Shotty day 2 with no delay, then why did you later hesitate to hammer and insist that everyone should wait for me to post?Ellibereth wrote:Kise's on!
PLEASE TAKE THE WONDERFUL HAMMER WE'RE GIVING AWAY!!!!They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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I think those bad feelings are because I just don't favor his playstyle even though I'm not sure if his alignment has an influence. I have a nagging belief that he's town despite his "eccentricity."
And townies are uncomfortable with unwarranted public trust. If you say SC is town, then that's your belief. Stick to it.Ojanen wrote:Scum hates townies trusting each other
And then some. As a reminder, I told you I'm not going to wait around for common scumslips or the sort because I give SC credit when he's scum. We were both town in a large theme game recently and something just feels different about him here. Could be because he was a PR last game. I got a bad feeling about you and SC, and it's easy to pardon it by saying you two played a few games with each other, etc. Why does that eliminate the possibility that you're both mafia here?OJ Simpson wrote:A note: your scum suspects are based almost exclusively, as far as I can see, on relation to Neto.
This reads like scum, as opposed to bored townies, how? And actually, I don't know about Yarmond but it was already reported that Kitty had connection issues.OJ Simpson wrote:Let's not forget it's a Very Bad Thing to have a near to blank slot for 2 whole game days.-
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Am I right to think that if I'm lynched and flip town, you go after hewitt the following day?SerialClergyman wrote:I have, since the start of the day, been firm about Kise and Hewitt being my reads for scum. I voted Kise first. I made a case against Hewitt, but since then I've been put off by thinking that Kise seems to genuinely want Hewitt lynched and that's disconcerting to my game view.-
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I don't speak out on town reads ever since an earlier Newbie game where I put too much faith on a player not being scum. He killed me and everyone took my belief as fact and he would have survived/won the game had it not been mod-abandoned. I'm turned off by town-list, even though most of us were newbs. Giving town-cred is something I never jump up to do, and I've said that it's a nagging feeling that DLA is town and that the scum lies within Budja, you and/or OJ.
The scum team? Farside kept saying I had the votecounts wrong and I thought she was trying to discredit the reasons I was suspecting hewitt. I thought of them as a scum-team but I guess she's realized hewitt was in fact at L-1 when Neto avoided hammering and voted for Elli. I've also said I think the team could be you [SC] and Ojajen despite an impressive case against Neto. I don't know the history of you two so of course I'm going to question it until I fully understand the relationship. Even so, as many friends as I've made and played with on-site, I myself never do any co-op playing. If anything, I feel like I can read a friend better if I know how they play as town and scum.
Comparing how you & OJ interact to how the rest of us interact with each other gives me the impression that you & OJ trust each other's opinions and viewpoints in this game. Hewitt and Neto barely interacted directly, yet there is a connection with them based on what farside and I have gone over.
It could still easily be you [SC] and Budja which was my earlier/first suspicion when I read day 1. Did you say today's phase is when you began suspecting hewitt/Budja?They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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Here's the large theme, OJ:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12352
Um, what would happen with your view of hewittscum?SerialClergyman wrote:Kise, if you were lynched and flip town I don't really want to line up lynches and telegraph my next options. It's a definite possibility.
Yeeeeees. Why do you ask?Ojanen wrote:But those bad feelings still linger?
There are 2 goons, 1 mason, and 5 vanilla townies left. The VT's don't know who's town. The mason has no one to talk to. The goons will be the only two working together in some way to get this day how they want it. So with 2 goons confirmed to each other and 6 town who don't know each other, do you now see why I have questioned the way you're riding beside SC often?Ojanen wrote:You're uncomfortable with public trust, so... I should stick to it no matter what and not give a possibility for reevaluation?
This makes zero sense, it's in fact a contradiction.
Your townreads shouldn't be loony if you really believe in them.Ojanen wrote:Also I don't see your reason to call it only towards me and serial, you don't seem to have a problem with my other loony townreads.
It's weird that you don't suspect/vote me until SC does. Of course this is going to stick out to me because you're picking sides essentially.Ojanen wrote:You're going rounds and rounds with the argument of the 2 of us, but noone has ever spoke about it eliminating anything, you're the one constantly bringing it up, and the reasons to pair us are weak.
Well harro:?: You and SC are not my only suspects.Ojanen wrote:Also, if we're both scum again, why on earth are you voting Budja?
Or scum going for easy pickings because they know the blank spot won't bark back. Probably would have turned into a lurker-lynch down the road (not that I disagree with lynching lurkers before lylo).Ojanen wrote:You said it was suspicious we were both pestering you for content. I say it's undisputably pro-town to pester content from a near blank slot.
So because you have town reads on hewitt and SC, etc., mine is wrong?Ojanen wrote:none of your reads ringing true at all springs you to the scummiest person alive.
--->
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... st_Fallacy
Ojanen wrote:Noone feels like scum .
Do you think it's unfair for me to believe scum could be among this trusted group?SerialClergyman wrote:I think if you get a strong town-read-on-each-ther group it makes it almost impossibly difficult for scum. They need to manufacture mislynches out of a much smaller pool and are restricted in the NK choices they have because they need to cut down on the group.
OJ, during day 1, what was it that made you think your vote on Neto put him at L-1?-
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Ellibereth?
Kise wrote:
I didn't even deliver my thoughts on the game so far and this came across to me as pressure. As a matter of fact, you were pestering me at the end of day 2 to post content. If you were fine with me hammering Shotty day 2 with no delay, then why did you later hesitate to hammer and insist that everyone should wait for me to post?Ellibereth wrote:Kise's on!
PLEASE TAKE THE WONDERFUL HAMMER WE'RE GIVING AWAY!!!!-
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I'll pull it up in a second. There was this fiasco D1 when Serial wouldn't vote for Neto because he thought he was at L-1. You were flying across the world and I-I-I-I, I can't find my baby. DLA heckled SC about not voting and he was waiting for you to post before "hammering." Dramo does a votecount later on and it's revealed Neto was only at L-2.
Gimme a sec.They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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Did you miss the part where I said I don't favor his playstyle?Ojanen wrote:Because this turn of phrase+lingering bad feel doesn't feel genuine:Kise wrote:His opinions come across as genuine (from the heart) and not from the mindset of scum wanting to meet their objective hastily.
That hasn't change in the slightest, or are you choosing not to change it?Ojanen wrote:Oh, that's clear (although not what I was replying to), but I'll tell you what is reads as.
I have had a townread on Serial since catchup
Don't let Serial tell you who's town. You be the judge.Ojanen wrote:he expressed one on me after my Neto case. We have both also separately expressed townreads to other people. Serial is convinced Scigatt is town, for example. I have a bucketload of inflation suffering townreads.
You both attacked kiku, you both rallied for Shotty's death, you've defended SC at times, and I don't think I've seen you two disagree on matters up until today's phase [QT talking].Ojanen wrote:Now, there seems to be something quite obviously friendly between me and him, and there's very obviously some meta right since my first post where I apologize for getting in a game with him again. This type of obvious friendliness in thread has absolutely no added benefit to scumbuddies.
So who are they looney to, then? I never commented on your townreads -- to each his own.Ojanen wrote:That was self-ironical language, they aren't loony to me.
Nah, SC voted for me and you waited about a week IRL before voting me. I've pretty much been your only scumread today IIRC.Ojanen wrote:
I'm pretty sure that is factually false but I'm too tired to check.Kise wrote:It's weird that you don't suspect/vote me until SC does. Of course this is going to stick out to me because you're picking sides essentially.
You and SC pioneered it though. Everyone else stayed busy with scumhunting whereas SC kept reminding everyone I wasn't present.Ojanen wrote:And second it did take you the whole game day, and certifiably also dead town among others asked you for content, so it's hard to see how the 2 of us also pestering you makes us look like scumbuddies to you.
Wait what!? You didn't say my reads weren't townish initially. You said they weren't true. Now I have to question how you know about truth when, in fact, you're saying 7 out of 8 players here are likely town.(?) If you're saying I'm not true/townish (to you, meaning this is a relative fallacy), then elaborate on an example of what it is I'm doing that's not true/townish so I can understand your view.Ojanen wrote:
No. The argumentation hasn't rang townish to me. Disagreeing with someone doesn't mean they're scummy.Kise wrote:
So because you have town reads on hewitt and SC, etc., mine is wrong?Ojanen wrote:none of your reads ringing true at all springs you to the scummiest person alive.-
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Kise wrote:
So who are they looney to, then?Ojanen wrote:That was self-ironical language, they aren't loony to me.
Nothing specific I can put my finger on. Seems like his demeanor is different is all.Ojanen wrote:Kise, could you tell more exactly in which way SC feels different to you compared to the large theme you mentioned?
Bah.. To me it looks like Serial more than the rest, and probably first. Even outright saying SC wasn't acting scummy at a time when others/voters disagreed. I also had to suspect you for any time you switched from saying someone is probtown to declaring them town then reverting to prob again.Ojanen wrote:I've defended a lot of people at times (DLA, Budja, reads that I'm now also questioning more).
It seems like you suspect players a lot based on their inactivity. You had Shotty & kiku as scum reads since day 1 and stuck to your guns for most of day2 on those 2 being scum and everyone else as townish.Ojanen wrote:farside, kiku, Elli, Scigatt, DLA also rallied for Shotty's death (I'd say I was a minor player in that, also, which is not a townish thing but the access was stopping me.)
DLA and Shotty also attacked kiku. I had kiku as a scummy read since my very first content, that's not following.
Um, you bothOjanen wrote:The significance of QT talking baffles me since we would have both been in the game already on N1, and we didn't agree on everything D1.werehere in the game by the time N1 came.. And when I mentioned QT earlier, I was hinting at a discussion you two may have had as scum N2 to tone down the buddying.
For inactivity alone, or was there something I said at the end of D2, or other reason? I think answering farside's question ties in with this.Ojanen wrote:Nah, if you talk about suspicion of you, check my posts. I had you as no.2 already before anyone else had posted on D3.
Serial threw out a minor case against Neto before your vote D1, actually. He admits that he was happy with not being lynched D1 (survival) so, no definite way to tell if he followed you or not and I'm thinking about dropping this avenue since it's not concrete enough to prove either side of the argument. In the words of kiku, "Self preservation is much more of a scumtell than a towntell."Ojanen wrote:Serial followed me on the Neto momentum, for example, and we don't agree on everything.
Who was this directed at?SerialClergyman wrote:I gtg to work, but should be able to answer soon. In the meantime, why would you vote someone and often list them in your top suspects if you didn't undersatnd why they were scummy?
I had to ask who I was replacing because dram wasn't logging on often and I wasn't informed who it was I was replacing. I wanted to know from you all who I was replacing because if my predecessors said much of anything, I'd know they share my alignment and I'd believe their viewpoint rather than try and judge them.SerialClergyman wrote:Then Kise comes in at the START of D2 to say he's around and yet says NOTHING throughout the entirety of the day. We have kiku, shotty, ojanen and me all posting wall posts at each other, so there was no need for kise to come in and say something.
Didn't want to get ahead of myself. Catch-up came first, then talk about current affairs. I doubt you of all people ITT think blindly jumping the gun is a wise move for any alignment.SC wrote:If Kise is town, I'm sure he would have got involved in those discussions in some way - look how active he is today?
Misrep. I started posting my thoughts because I realized Shotty had been hammered -- wanted to get my words in before thread locked. If you think what I had to say about DLA, hewitt and yourself early on wasn't an interest in finding scum, then you're misrepping as I said.SC wrote:Kise's activity is worth a paragraph on its own - it has ramped up remarkedly since he started getting some attention. He showed no interest in finding scum D2, but plenty of interest in saving his butt D3.
I could care less if you targeted me/Kitty or not. Had no influence on my reading. I saw the same things Albert [and DLA] did about you D1. Giving me flak for referencing Albert's case is like saying Albert's case was useless.SC wrote:Finally, his attacks have all been mediocre. He attacked me both because I've been his biggest accusor throughout the game and because I've been attacked constnatly due to CSL-baggage. When he gave his arguments, there was nothing more concrete than continuing to mention CSL and invoking Albert.
I did? Probably thought you were talking about me.SC wrote:His play has gotten better, but it doesn't excuse the fact that he actually brought up my suggesting a policy lynch of Hewitt for quoting all of Albert's posts as a point against me!
I'm not buying 1537 as a response to Elli. It won't be the first slip SC has made (ie Albert tricking him into saying he's scum with Neto). Farside if you're willing to vote SC today, I'll make the switch as well. I know OJ won't do it and Scigatt's slot probably won't be around. Maybe SC can take a page from CSL and self-vote though.-
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For all I know, the Budja vote could be to make him look better if he's your partner. It's a two way street. Why should there be anything new to say when I've commented on 50-some pages of material to go off of
Way I see it Farside is that SC is more lynchable than Budja depending on how DLA and Elli feel. Serial's slip a page ago is hard to ignore. If Budja is your pick for scum, and he's either partnered with SC or me, then we can find out now whether it's SC or whether you should keep your eyes on Budja and me.
I can wait for DLA and Elli.-
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Yes because Farside won't make the switch I don't think. Yes I'm trying to coordinate a wagon on one of my suspects. Problem?
I just iso'd Scigatt to find out he was tunneling on you a bit, SC. FTR, this was before day 3 when OJ suspected saber/Sci's slot. I need to understand why he was #1 on your list [OJ].
An overview of my suspicions is that I see a link with Neto & hewitt. I see a link with you and OJ as well on top of every other scummy thing your slot is responsible for. You and Budja's votes on each other don't deter me because you even said you started suspecting him today's phase so I look at that as being out of the blue. Weak suspicions tend to be bussing. I'd rather today's lynch be on someone I'm more sure of being mafia than guessing between whether Budja or OJ is your partner.
You still haven't answered my question of what would happen to your view of hewitt being scum if I flipped town as today's lynch.They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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I didn't even welcome him to the game.
I'm down for a quicklynch, but Budjadidvote for SC, even if not a strong reason. I think that credits him more than OJ.
Scary..DarkLightA wrote:Hewitt + CS + Neto pair?
Who is Budja paired to, in your opinion?Ojanen wrote:I am not gonna switch my vote tonight.
If I had to do it right now between Budja and Serial it would be Budja, based on pairing possibilities inside Kise/DLA/Serial/Budja(/Scigatt).
Um...Ojanen wrote:Blah.
vote: Budja
(don't ask.)They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.
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