Open 191 - Paris Mafia II (Game Over!)

[XScorpion]

I like bandwagons, and I also hate when people don't have avatars .

vote: cat

[XScorpion]

What?

unvote
Vote:Kise

[XScorpion]

Vigilante is going to kill Kise then? OK.

unvote
Vote: Kyle99

Ah, didn't realize Mime's were like jesters, unvote.

Major ignorance and/or feigning ignorance are not cool in my book.

[XScorpion]

@all references to previous 141:
I honestly don't know what the hell was going on in that game. From my perspective, there were about 6 mimes (all from SA), hence my withdrawal from that game. I really don't see how being in a game that didn't even get to day 2 makes me any better at telling mime from scum than anyone else?

[XScorpion]

In that game my "analysis" was of a bunch of SA trolls.
I'm really not eager to repeat the same things I did last game, given that they didn't even help.

[XScorpion]

So just to be clear, you're voting me because I haven't made an analysis of the players I find scummy yet?

[XScorpion]

We don't need to lynch Kise though, the vigilante is supposed to shoot him (right?).
I'm really not comfortable voting anyone right now...unlike rhinox's "let's just lynch and forget the mimes" policy, I want town to win first.

unvote

[XScorpion]

Way to totally not answer my question, Flinter.

[XScorpion]

Well, here is my thought process.
I think Kise is mime.
The vig is supposed to shoot him tonight.
When he gets shot, if he is mime, all mimes are dead (cannot fulfill win condition).
I don't see a point in "finding anti-town players" when we don't want to lynch half of them. I'd rather wait until the mimes are dead, THEN go scumhunting.

[XScorpion]

Actually I wouldn't mind a no lynch until mimes are dead, but whatever floats your boat I guess.

[XScorpion]

Actually I'm just really bad/lazy town but ok lol.

[XScorpion]

Actually I'm just really bad/lazy town but ok lol.

Nice. Those are great qualities for a townie.

I never said I was any good at this game

[XScorpion]

I did too but then flinter reminded me that the person with the most votes gets lynched even if its not a majority
And if everyone unvotes, a mime just votes for himself and lols at us

[XScorpion]

I guess the last game just made me feel that scumhunting with mimes around is a waste of time :/
Hence why I'd rather wait for the scum or vig to kill one first.

[XScorpion]

@Looker: I'm curious as to why you've already switched votes away from Kise even though he didn't vote anyone? This looks like wishy washy voting to me until you hit a bandwagon, giving you an excuse to keep a vote there.

But if you are so insistent that I vote for someone, then OMGUS I guess.

Vote: Looker

[XScorpion]

So, you don't believe there is any chance whatsoever that I'm just a bad, lazy townie who got frustrated with the last 191 and doesn't feel as confident anymore about games with mimes?
Well on the bright side, at least if I get lynched today you don't hit a mime...

[XScorpion]

@rhinox: Post 149

[XScorpion]

A towny wouldn't say this, as the lynch is town's tool against the mafia.

I still don't agree with this. Although obviously no lynch isn't an option, there's a reason it isn't: It allows town to completely shut down the mimes. Given what happened last 191, I feel that mimes are scarier than scum, hence why it makes sense to me for town to let the vig do the killing for town until the mimes are gone, THEN start lynching.

[XScorpion]

Scorp's not scum, he's just failtown, like I

usually

am. But we should really lynch Kyle.

Emphasis on usually...this implies that xRECKONERx is not a town in this game. Scumslip, or mime?

[XScorpion]

And this brings me back to why I'm really not comfortable here...if this was a regular game I'd just vote xRECKONERx and not think a second thing about it, but he could be a mime and then I would be helping him.

[XScorpion]

Nope - I meant I'm usually failtown, but I

might

be goodtown in this game.

yea ok

[XScorpion]

I like how there's a 4 person bandwagon on me for being lazy, yet Looker is just behaving randomly (literally). That definitely makes sense. </sarcasm>

[XScorpion]

The difference between you and me is, I don't care if people see me as town or not.
If I am scum, why are you not voting for me? Why are you voting Kyle based on very weak evidence and randomness? If you are so eager for a lynch today, why don't you just stick to my bandwagon and get more people to join? What I see from you is someone who is basically jumping a vote around because you don't care who gets lynched today. Town don't want to lynch PRs or Mimes, and Mimes want to make sure they are the ones getting lynched, but you are just placing random votes on people without good reasoning. I don't know about you, but I think that's more scummy than a lazy town.

[XScorpion]

And you still haven't explained why you unvoted Kise to vote for me?

[XScorpion]

We need to rally up a bandwagon/lynch of some sort or we'll get nowhere.

Let's lynch some scum

I don't like how Looker is desperately looking to push a bandwagon on

anyone

that he can.

I wouldn't call it desperate, but there's only one way to start the game. You know that.

We'll see how that plays out. We need a lynch.

Who should we lynch?

I never implied I was eager for a lynch, etc, etc.

...RIGHT.

[XScorpion]

I didn't imply I was voting Kyle on evidence,

And this is exactly why you are scum.

And how long are you going to keep dodging my question?

Why did you unvote Kise?

[XScorpion]

I didn't imply I was voting Kyle on evidence,

And this is exactly why you are scum.

And how long are you going to keep dodging my question?

Why did you unvote Kise?

Because I saw a jalapeno.

Someone please help me just lynch this guy?

[XScorpion]

So why would you vote LOOKER of all people?

Maybe because Looker is the actual scum here? I'm really not seeing how you think I'm so anti-town when Looker hadn't really contributed any more than I had for the first half of the game.
I also think it ironic that Looker is questioning dry-fit's seriousness after posts like "Because I saw a jalapeno".

[XScorpion]

@kyle: If I'm scum here, why don't you vote for me already? Also I don't remember what game I was in with you, would you mind refreshing my memory?

[XScorpion]

OK, how about,
Why are you dodging questions?
Why don't you actually pick someone who looks scummy and vote for them?
Why don't you stop wishy washy voting and give reasons for your vote rather then just as an accompaniment to the question "who do you want to lynch"?
Why aren't you scum?

[XScorpion]

1. I've asked you at least 3 times know why you unvoted Kise and you still haven't told me. This is dodging.
2. So you are basically saying that everyone who is voting based on evidence right now is stupid and should re-evaluate their accusations?
3. And flinter calls ME scum for not scumhunting and desiring a no-lynch...sigh.
4. I'm actually asking you to tell me what you've done so far that has helped town.

[XScorpion]

Hey hito, wanna help me lynch this scum?

[XScorpion]

Yeah because we have 3 mimes. Kise, you are so useful to town. </sarcasm>.

[XScorpion]

Why should Kise vote? He nor his mime buddy are at L-1 yet.

[XScorpion]

Got any reasons for why I'm mafia or is it just OMGUS?

[XScorpion]

I like bandwagons, and I also hate when people don't have avatars .

vote: cat

Randomness, okay, cool.

In RVS, randomness isn't the worst thing in the world. By page 10, it's time to stop.

What?

unvote
Vote:Kise

Opportunistic response to Kise's joke, okay, still cool.

I'm still of the opinion that he is anti-town and should die. (This is still the plan, right? Vig tonight?)

Vigilante is going to kill Kise then? OK.

unvote
Vote: Kyle99

Ah, didn't realize Mime's were like jesters, unvote.

Major ignorance and/or feigning ignorance are not cool in my book.

Voting someone cuz of

ignorance

? Not really...

Did you think there was someone better to vote for at the time?

So just to be clear, you're voting me because I haven't made an analysis of the players I find scummy yet?

The reason you

claim

you're voting me

It's a pretty fair reason. I never contested it.

@Looker: I'm curious as to why you've already switched votes away from Kise even though he didn't vote anyone? This looks like wishy washy voting to me until you hit a bandwagon, giving you an excuse to keep a vote there.

But if you are so insistent that I vote for someone, then OMGUS I guess.

Vote: Looker

Then the hypocritical OMGUS.

The thing is, if you were so convinced I'm scum at this point (which must be true, else why would you stop interrogating me) then why did you remove your vote?

---

I'm pretty sure you're Mafia and was actually looking for your partner, someone who would stick up for you with no real reasoning; however, I didn't anticipate Hito. (Thanks alot, btw) I'm still confident you're scum but'll just have to find your partner some other way.

Either

way, I'm still sticking to my process of trying to get everyone to vote and get actively involved before we fall prey to the Spotlight Effect.

I'm not buying this: if you are looking for my partner, then why did you only vote for kyle afterwards, knowing that he wasn't going to defend me? Why did you just reveal that you're looking for my supposed scumpartner? Why aren't you voting for me?

[XScorpion]

...did I just suddenly hit L-1 in a matter of minutes?

[XScorpion]

@Reckoner: if Kyle and I are both scum why is he pushing my wagon?

[XScorpion]

@kyle: also if Kise is mime, why is he pushing my wagon?

[XScorpion]

Looker is trying to say that Reckoner thinks the reason you are voting me is as an opportunistic bus, because that's what I asked Reckoner. He does not necessarily agree with this.

[XScorpion]

@kyle: If I'm scum here, why don't you vote for me already? Also I don't remember what game I was in with you, would you mind refreshing my memory?

It's here.

Ok, here's my case against XScorpion.

First, he get's mad at me for being ignorant about mimes. He says:

Major ignorance and/or feigning ignorance are not cool in my book.

Then later, he says that:

Actually I wouldn't mind a no lynch until mimes are dead, but whatever floats your boat I guess.

He says this despite the fact that he knows that you can't vote no lynch, hence the reason why he just

said

he wanted the town to vote no lynch as opposed to actually voting for it.

Or maybe I actually didn't know that you can't vote no lynch, and I simply wanted to gouge people's interest in the idea before I help support it?

Then, he says that:

@Looker: I'm curious as to why you've already switched votes away from Kise even though he didn't vote anyone? This looks like wishy washy voting to me until you hit a bandwagon, giving you an excuse to keep a vote there.
But if you are so insistent that I vote for someone, then OMGUS I guess.
Vote: Looker

This post reeks of scum/bad logic. He votes for Looker because he says that he unvoted Kise. However, there was actually a quite good reason that I think he XScorpion already knew. Mostly everyone here agrees that there's a decent posibility that Kise is mime, which seems like a great reason to unvote Kise. Then he says, oh, and in case that reason sucks, then it's an OMGUS, not the reason I just listed.

Except that Kise was considered to be a mime BEFORE Looker made this post, so why vote him in the first place? "Because he's a mime" was not Looker's reason for unvoting.

Then there's this post:

I like how there's a 4 person bandwagon on me for being lazy, yet Looker is just behaving randomly (literally). That definitely makes sense. </sarcasm>

No, people aren't voting for you because you're lazy, there voting for you because you're acting scummy. Also, acting lazy and being random are completely different things.

They accomplish the same thing: Nothing. And yes, people ARE voting for me because I'm lazy, and because I admitted it. That laziness is what makes me scummy in the first place - because I was too lazy to actually get up and scumhunt, and because I had lost a lot of motivation to do so after the tragedy of the first 191.

[XScorpion]

And on the subject of no lynch, wouldn't your logic also make Reckoner scum for his post where he also advocated no lynch and didn't vote for it?

[XScorpion]

What makes you think he is mime?

[XScorpion]

Is it not just as likely that he's mafia pretending to be mime?

[XScorpion]

Yeah because as the goon, I've really tried hard to look pro-town/obvmime in this game </sarcasm>
@Everyone: who IS the vig supposed to kill tonight? First it was Kise, now it's supposedly Looker? Is there a confirmed target or are we just gonna let the vig swing around where he/she wants?

[XScorpion]

@Kise: Would you mind explaining to me why you voted me in the first place, and then why you just unvoted me now?

[XScorpion]

Told you so.

[XScorpion]

directed @hito

[XScorpion]

Kyle claims you to be vig target in 276.

[XScorpion]

Actually the "told you so" applies to you too. Everyone else ok with vig killing Kise?

[XScorpion]

Then hurry up and hammer me.

[XScorpion]

Why? Just do what Kise says and hammer me and get it over with.

[XScorpion]

Yeah but I'm tired of waiting around to die so just do me a favour and kill me.
Don't make me do it myself, it really won't help town that much -_-

[XScorpion]

Doesn't help town: tomorrow town will want to be questioning everyone on my wagon when I turn up vanilla. Voting for myself means that's one less mafia who needs to help get me lynched.

[XScorpion]

But I still think you're the mafia, so why don't you help me out and vote me so they can lynch/kill you tomorrow?

[XScorpion]

looker is obvscum.
I'm hoping that by dying today, the other scum will be revealed to the surviving town. So by all means, go ahead and hammer.

[XScorpion]

Going to sleep, if I die before I come back I sincerely apologize for my horrible play as VT to both town and to VP Baltar.

[XScorpion]

Why am I not dead yet
Vig Kise
Lynch me
Get this over with plz.

[XScorpion]

I don't follow scum's advice.

[XScorpion]

Really? Which scum was that? Flinter? Cuz I don't think flinter is scum.

[XScorpion]

Alright looker, then who are you referring to?

[XScorpion]

Quick question, Scorp. What was your role last time this game was running?

VT as well. Which of course makes everyone think I'm not VT here, so it will be a shocker when I flip

How exactly would your death as VT help kill scum better than trying to lynch properly today? Also why are you trying to get killed as VT in a game where we have mimes who have to be lynched to win?

My death will almost certainly give good information about scum to town. I'm trying to get lynched as VT in a game with mimes so that if we fail to find scum today (at this rate, we will), at least we don't lynch a mime or PR.

[XScorpion]

1) True but I'd rather not give the mimes any chances at all.
2) Yes, but at this point I don't see my position as salvageable given my terribad play for the first few pages, so for the sake of keeping the most pro-town people around it makes logical sense to get rid of me.
3) Why are there votes on me then?
4) It won't help you get rid of scum at this rate, but if I suddenly get hammered out of nowhere or people start jumping on my bandwagon with poor reasoning (or people stay on my bandwagon with poor justification) then my death should hopefully help to determine who actually voted me thinking I'm scum and who voted me because I'm an easy lynch. Add onto the fact that mimes are trying not to get me lynched and I see a veritable mine of things you might be able to determine when I die.

[XScorpion]

I suicided as scum in that game to defend my partner...I knew that one of us was going to get killed for sure, so I pushed hard for my partner's lynch, which bought him another day. Unfortunately, he made a poor choice for NK on the second last day and it cost him the game. I can link if you want.

[XScorpion]

I'm up for reckoner's plan, but it will suck if the Vig and watcher get sent after...the vig or watcher << Just pointing that out.
Unless there is someone who is REALLY obvscum I don't see why anyone other than Looker should be lynched today? Unless there's a really good reason, I doubt that myself or my wagon are gonna change any votes around, and I don't really see any other potential wagons at the moment so at this rate I'm still dead.

[XScorpion]

Scorpion, if we lynch and vig other people tonight, I assume you would stop this 'lynch me' stuff and actually get back into the game, yes?

If I magically survive to the next day then sure, I'll play harder. But from the perspective of the rest of town I really am the logical choice for lynch.

[XScorpion]

Please stop alt posting or I will lynch you out of spite

[XScorpion]

unvote

scorpion is town. Looker is town. Kise is still probably town.

vote: kyle99

vig: reck (gut feeling)

Care to explain your thoughts? Or is all of this just "gut feeling"?
I'm still not seeing why Looker is town and Kyle isn't.

[XScorpion]

this wagon is so obviously badly formed. Look at how people get on, what reasons they use. This lynch is not formed out of believe that Kyle is scum.

There was a big bandwagon on Xscorpion, based on a good case. It disappeared. ok, fine. But this wagon is not close to as well formed that one was. People just hop on. It should ring some alarmbells with you how it is formed.

Kyle is a bad lynch. This was first gut on him, now I absolutely don't like how this wagon came up out of nothing.

and did you notice? Nobody knows anymore who is going to be vigged/watched. We made chaos. Well done town. Now get your heads together.

I propose this plan: I'll choose a player who will call the target for the vig and watcher. If I'm scum, I could choose my partner to pick it, but it would me and my partner away. So even as scum I would have some incentive to pick a towny and hope for the best. By not picking the target myself I have far less (dangerous) influence.

Agree with this except your plan.
The problem with your plan is that if you're mime, you choose a mime to pick the target, and neither of you die. Also, if you aren't a mime, you still could pick a mime by accident.

[XScorpion]

Or how about just...you choose the target?

You would prefer another target, a military target? Then name the system!

[XScorpion]

I don't have a second choice besides Looker, but Looker wants a Dry-fit lynch, so I will work against you and him.

Unvote
Vote: Kyle

[XScorpion]

Hehe...getting annoyed at me yet, Flinter?

[XScorpion]

Or I won't defend because I don't care about defending? Of course I know you're right, but since I'm not actually scum, I don't care if people think I have connections to other players, and I definitely don't care if you don't approve of my pushing Kyle over Dry-fit.
Gerty, if I'm annoying you so much, why don't you join with Flinter and push my wagon again? Between you two, Kyle, Looker and maybe Rhinox you can try to get me lynched, so why not give it a shot?

I am very much up for vigging Kise, as I have been all day. Tomorrow if I'm still around, I will be pushing looker's bandwagon again and looking for scum amongst whoever is defending him, Rhinox being my current #2 after his lack of explanation for why both Looker and I are town.

[XScorpion]

Wouldn't the obvious answer have been staying on Looker? No, because you are trying to force a mislynch here.

My vote on Looker wasn't doing anything. I will return to it tomorrow.

I want dry-fit alive because he's one of the very few people who actually has shown support to lynching Looker.

[XScorpion]

FoS on Reckoner for suggesting the vig claim.

[XScorpion]

Actually I think a more appropriate idea is (if both vig and watcher live) is for everyone, as soon as day 2 starts, to say a player's name they trust. Just one player. So, later on, if the watcher dies first, then he would have breadcrumbed who the vig is.

Fail idea. Later on, if the watcher dies first and breadcrumbs the vig, the scum learn who the vig is and kill him as the mimes roleblock him. Epic fail?

[XScorpion]

Denied.

Unvote
Vote: Dry-fit

[XScorpion]

No

Unvote
Vote: Kyle

[XScorpion]

I'm just going to vote against you, I don't care which one of them it is.

[XScorpion]

No!

Unvote
Vote: Looker

[XScorpion]

Like hito said, it is quite weird that I'm not killed. I have tried my best to actually get killed, and gerty, while playing well, did a bit of hiding. This would mean that or they had found gerty out (I doubt that) or I am wrong, or supposed to be wrong about the game.

I'm town and you were dead set on killing me, so why would scum want you to die? lol.
I'm thinking Looker was able to count votes and knew he was hammering, so FoM (finger of mime) at Looker.
Flinter is obv. town and I like Flinter so I will push her wagons.

Vote: xofelf

[XScorpion]

So who are we lynching? Town or mafia? Cuz if we're lynching town today then you can all just vote for me lol.

[XScorpion]

OK So are any mafia willing to suicide? If not we're gonna have to lynch town

[XScorpion]

Please don't try to lynch mime, that's just stupid.
Lynch town or scum. Period.

[XScorpion]

Or maybe the mafia will say "screw you" to the rest of town and let the lynch go through and then the mime dies and we lose.

[XScorpion]

Oh ok.
Lynch me then, I look like mafia but im actually town but mafia doesn't know that i'm not a mime so they might claim.

[XScorpion]

Mafia counterclaim, or we kill Mylynes.

unvote
vote: Mylynes

[XScorpion]

Pretty sure Looker is the scum, please kill him after I die.

Vote: Looker

[XScorpion]

Sorry Looker, I never liked scum. I always hate playing scum on this site, it's usually pretty obvious when I am.

[XScorpion]

Oh I was worried you hammered there for a second. Nice job paying attention.

Xscorpion:

Sorry Looker, I never liked scum. I always hate playing scum on this site, it's usually pretty obvious when I am.

rephrase this.

OK.

Though I want XScorpion , it's probably due to personality conflicts and perceived incompetence as opposed to perceived scumminess. Quite frankly, I don't think he likes me Sad.

No, Looker, I don't like you, because you are scum. I am not scum because I would be already dead if I was, given that I am very obv. scum when I am scum.
My closing argument is that Looker is scum because he is not mime and not town. When I die, please kill him.

[XScorpion]

BTW WTF @ Reckoner suddenly a) no longer pushing like crazy for a kyle lynch and b) thinking Looker is scum out of nowhere.

[XScorpion]

To be obv. scum, I'd have to actually be scum lol.

[XScorpion]

Yeah because in your first FIFTY posts you totally voted and scumhunted other people </sarcasm>
You never voted looker. That is a lie. Lynch all liars.

unvote
Vote: Reckoner

[XScorpion]

No point, deadline isn't for a while and I'm not gonna kill kyle unless it comes down to me vs. him. I'd rather a looker or reckoner lynch atm

[XScorpion]

Reckoner is scum for sure. After that hammer...yeah...
Looker is probably the other one.

[XScorpion]

And conversely, if you lynch Reckoner and he flips scum, I am confirmed town.
Not to mention, if I do flip scum, Reckoner just gets Nkilled anyway...
Why are you voting so early on LyLo? And why have you been tunneling all game?
FoS: Flinter.

[XScorpion]

Lylo is also a time where you have to be extremely careful, because if flinter is actually town then the scum just have to place 2 votes on me and it's gg. I am extremely wary of someone who doesn't even hesitate to place a vote, when most people during Lylo take the time to evaluate everything and only place a vote when they have looked everything over. Flinter has been tunneling me since day 1, has only NOT voted for me when people thought I was mime, and is not scumhunting whatsoever. I dunno about you, but I definitely have lost my faith in Flinter being town.

[XScorpion]

At least I pointed out the scum (Looker) and later the other one (Flinter)