Open 187- Silence of the Yams! Over!

[Starbuck]

Page 1 to Caught Up

Unvote: whoever Ecto was voting for

On my predecessor, Ectomancer

I disagree with his active lurking strategy, as it is a strategy that I do not believe in, no matter what role you are in.

I also disagree with his point about EB's complaints because it is the holiday season, and with as slow moving as this game has been thus far, I really don't see the issue concerning EB's supposed complaints. I do see contradictions and distraction elsewhere though.

On ElectricBadger

It seems rather hypocritical to me that EB tries to call out Ecto for distracting the town with his conversation with Parts about FOS's, but EB was definitely distracting from scumhunting when he was trying to lead Ecto and the rest of the town into a conversation about lurking.

Added to the game...we're barely on page 2 and I've got you squirming like a hooked fish. I'm thrilled.

This post sounds a bit overconfident for me.

Parts - Do you think that taking 24 hours to post is lurking?

I know this is directed at Parts, but I wanted to give my opinion. People can easily go and look to see if you have been around and posting in other games. If so, I definitely feel that pretty much whenever you are on the site, you owe the game a post or two, but if nothing or barely anything has been added since the last time you posted, then I can see why you wouldn't add another post if it won't have any substance. Does that make sense?

Because he immediately got two votes for it.

This is just reaching now.

And yes, I did look in at one point and decided not to post - I was giving you a chance to push your case on Parts, which you failed to do. Distracting from that would have been counterproductive. Spamming is no more help to town than lurking.

I'm not Ecto, but as I read it, he really wasn't trying to push a case on Parts. He was just asking him a question. Nice misrep here.

Post 72 - Wow, overreaction much? Just the whole post reads as super overaggressive.

EB's constant requests for Ecto's definition of lurking when Ecto gave it on the first page of the game, bothers me. It's just another way to distract from scumhunting.

As for Parts - do you find it good play to ignore someone who is using hypocrisy to push a lynch? And no, he's not scum because he disagreed with me. He's scummy because you were coaching him, and he's bad because he saw the contradiction but chose to ignore it - not a good move for scum or town, just lousy play. Interesting you again dismiss his play and jump to his defense, though.

Please show some examples on how Ecto was coaching Parts, because I really didn't see it.

Vote: ElectricBadger

For continuing to distract from scumhunting with conversations about lurking and for misrepresentation.

On XScorpion

Electric badger is my new buddy.

Unvote
Vote: Ectomancer

Also I'm kicking off all the bandwagons. Lol.

The word "buddy" is not really a good word to use in a mafia game.

The point I'm trying to make here is that RVS votes are intended to be catalysts for discussion, not pieces of evidence that indicate scum.

Why couldn't they be? Scum could make a slip at any point in the game, why couldn't they do so in RVS?

On kunkstar

He comes in and seems to step up and defend EB.

Post 76 just jumps out at me. You can definitely feel his defense of EB here. He also supports EB's lurking subject, and doesn't see that a conversation like this will detract from scumhunting.

On Josh Lyman

Starbuck, if CSL is not your scumbuddy, who is?

No one is.

[Starbuck]

Why couldn't they be? Scum could make a slip at any point in the game, why couldn't they do so in RVS?

In my experience, first page RVS votes almost never indicate scum...it is the reactions to said votes that lead to slips.

I have no argument with that. I just wanted you to elaborate.

Thank you.

[Starbuck]

He did not state he was away. I did.

It needs to be stated that people are going away over the holidays? Come on dude, seriously, think logically.

[Starbuck]

So Parts, do you have any case based on what I have said? Or only on Ecto?

[Starbuck]

Also, how can you find CSL (with 9 total posts) suspicious for non-contribution when kunkstar only has 6 posts? Explain this hypocrisy to me.

[Starbuck]

Badger, you are at L-1.

Claim time.

[Starbuck]

It's premature to claim when you are at L-1?

How does that make ANY sense?

[Starbuck]

It seems rather hypocritical to me that EB tries to call out Ecto for distracting the town with his conversation with Parts about FOS's, but EB was definitely distracting from scumhunting when he was trying to lead Ecto and the rest of the town into a conversation about lurking.

Distracting from what scumhunting, precisely? I believe my vote for Ecto's lurking was the first serious one of the game.

Ecto ignored me to start another conversation. That is distraction.

How is what Ecto did a distraction and what you did not one also?

I'm not Ecto and I can't answer for his actions, but you did the exact same thing he did.

Because he immediately got two votes for it.

This is just reaching now.

He announced an intention to lurk. Multiple people attacked him for it, and he responded with a fair number of posts, reversing his position. Seeing a link there doesn't seem like reaching to me at all.

The only link I see here is the fact that you and XScorpion were the two votes on him, and that XScorpion was the one that asked you the question in this instance.

Elaboration:

The first person that voted was yourself, Post 17, due to his intention to lurk.

The second was from XScorpion in Post 18 who only says that he's YOUR new buddy and that he's kicking off all the bandwagons. Nothing about Ecto's intention to lurk.

And amazingly who did the question come from that received the answer of "Because he immediately got two votes for it"?

Post 42, BY XScorpion.

So now explain to me, how that's not reaching? When it definitely feels like both of you coordinated this.

And yes, I did look in at one point and decided not to post - I was giving you a chance to push your case on Parts, which you failed to do. Distracting from that would have been counterproductive. Spamming is no more help to town than lurking.

I'm not Ecto, but as I read it, he really wasn't trying to push a case on Parts. He was just asking him a question. Nice misrep here.

That's exactly what I said. He saw something he identified clearly as a scum tell - that scum use FOS much more often than townies - then FAILED to push it. If he HAD pushed the case, I would have seen that as pro-town. Nice misrep yourself.

What did I misrepresent?

You stated that you didn't post because you were giving him a chance to "push his case on Parts". What if he really was just asking Parts a question and had no intention of pushing a case? Last I knew in a mafia game, you could ask someone a question and not have to make a case on them about it. So why would you misrepresent that he was trying to push a case when he wasn't?

You clearly misrepresent Ecto in the last part of your post by purposely leaving out the very last thing he said about the subject, which you can see at the bottom of this...


Let's take a look at the evidence:

Ecto, Post 21:

What would you say Parts if I told you that in my experience scum tend to use an

fos

at nearly twice the rate of a town player?

Parts, Post 22

I'd say that's nice. How do you think it applies to me?

Ectomancer, Post 23

It doesn't. Thought you might find it interesting though.

Parts, Post 24

How reliable do you actually find that tell in practice?

Also, what if he took a glance at Parts' join date and realized that maybe Parts is still trying to get a grasp on things? Did that ever come to your mind? Hmm, maybe it did occur to Ecto....

Ectomancer, Post 25

In newbie games? Not at all. The caveat to that observation is that it is nearly completely opposite with newer players.

I find that a few things are different with newer players, hence my lead question.

So how in fact is this coaching and why did you leave out the last thing that Ecto said on the subject? You cut and pasted things to make yourself look better and didn't show the actual facts.

This is scummy.

[Starbuck]

EB's constant requests for Ecto's definition of lurking when Ecto gave it on the first page of the game, bothers me. It's just another way to distract from scumhunting.

I was giving Ecto every chance to disprove my charge of hypocrisy: to give contrary evidence. Investigating IS scumhunting; refusing to change a first reaction is not.

Also, please point out this definition on the first page, because I don't see it. His only p 1 reference to lurking was:

I have pneumonia. It gives me the perfect excuse to try out the role of active lurker. I've never been able to pull it off. I always end up as one of the most active posters in game. Wish me luck!

I apologize, I mistyped, it wasn't page 1. It was the very top of page 3.

Post 50

Specifically...

Not commenting on 8 posts in a day is quite a bit different. What this means is he logged in, saw 8 posts there and then

deliberately makes a decision not to post

. That right there is the definition of lurking, and Badger's 2 posts have me convinced that he came, he saw, he left and didnt post again until I voted for him.

Also, how can you change a first reaction? You can recant it, but you can never change it.

[Starbuck]

Why are you putting words in my mouth? I didn't say that I felt there was a Badger/XScorpion scum team. I was pointing out links between you two that I noticed. Links between certain people doesn't always mean both people are scum.

[Starbuck]

I'm not dodging the question. I am currently working on a post in Notepad concerning that question. So do me a favor and don't rush me and quit misrepresenting me and what I am saying.

Town doesn't know other town. That doesn't mean in game that two townies can't look like they are buddying scum to a completely separate townie. I'm not sure if that's what's going on here, but right now I was pointing out links that I see between you and Badger.

I find Badger to be scummy, but I'm rather null on you.

[Starbuck]

@Starbuck: What's your opinion of CSL?

I don't think CSL contributes enough. I replaced in and I currently have (with this post included) 12 posts in 3 pages, while CSL has been here since the beginning and only has 12 posts in 5 pages.



Reading him in iso, his first 5 posts are just general one-liners and a statement of being V/LA.

In the first, he confirms. In the second, he states RVS time and votes kunkstar for being the first to confirm. In his third, he just says "Haha". In his fourth, he expresses his love for RVS. His fifth is his V/LA statement (from the 23rd to the 28th), but it was the holidays and I am willing to give people slack on the holidays. Now that the holidays are over though, I definitely feel that he needs to pick it up.

He doesn't come up with his own case when he votes Badger in his sixth post, but then he states his reasoning in his seventh post. This is in his own words, so I'm willing to give him a break on the fact that he elaborated.

His opinion on Parts is rather hypocritical since it's the same reason why others suspect himself, and also he kinda parroted me on your use of the word buddy.

His next 3 posts are about how he was away, and the fact does remain that he did state he was V/LA. I can understand if he got a bit defensive over that fact. No one should be jumping him *coughElectricBadgercough* about his lack of posting between the 23rd and the 28th when he did post a V/LA. It's a bit odd that CSL is being jumped about lurking when others who never even posted a V/LA (kunkstar7 and Parts) are not.

Let me also state that kunkstar7 only has 7 posts in this game and Parts has 14 posts in the game, and they have been here since the start.

I do find it odd that

Contrary to what you think, I always re-read the thread. I haven't found anything scummy other than what other people said.

Really? Nothing scummy at all?


I am also waiting for his explanation of what kind of appeal to emotion that he sees that ElectricBadger is supposedly giving out.

[Starbuck]

CSL, are you going to contribute at all? Or are you just going to parrot off what everyone else said as you admitted above?

[Starbuck]

It's been 20 days since the game started and you took a V/LA from the 23rd of Dec until the 28th. So, excusing your 5 day V/LA, you've had 15 days to post SOMETHING of substance and yet, you have not.

The same goes for you too Kunkstar.

I would like to see contributions from the two of you. If you don't want to put the time and effort into this game, as you said you would when you typed "/in", please do the rest of us a favor and replace out for someone who WILL contribute.

[Starbuck]

See, CSL has one thing where you don't. He posted V/LA. You have just been plain lurking.

So what's your excuse now?

[Starbuck]

So, kunkstar, what are your thoughts on:

ElectricBadger
CSL
XScorpion
Parts
Josh Lyman
& myself?

Who do you think is the scummiest? Why?

What do you think about everyone else's cases on one another?


Bring something to the table, please.

[Starbuck]

One of the thing that strikes me the most is why would you call a claim so early? He is was still at L-1 when I was asked to make this if I'm not mistaken, and there wasn't a hammer. Other than that you have made good arguments to counter ElectricBadger.

Why is calling for his claim when he is one vote away from being lynched too early?

Why would I call for his claim after he was hammered?


I want legitimate answers to both of these questions.

[Starbuck]

But he was at L-1, anyone could have hammered him and we wouldn't have his claim.

So how was my calling for his claim WHEN HE WAS AT L-1 calling for it too early? How was he not under pressure? He was at L-1. He was one vote away from being lynched.

[Starbuck]

@kunkstar7 - That was an excellent answer in Post 158. I need to go back and re-read EB.

[Starbuck]

Oh, and EB, claiming when you are at L-1 needs to be done ASAP, because some people who will be willing to hammer will say something about you, then hammer you.

And those "some people" are obvscum, so I don't think I agree with you at all.

So let me get this straight... you're voting Parts using evidence from your ISO of Badger, without having done an ISO of Parts yet? Yeah ok.

So how in an Open game knowing that we have 2 Mafia Goons, do you get 3 obvscum voting for EB?

[Starbuck]

EDBWOP: Never mind, I completely read that wrong.

[Starbuck]

So Parts is now at L-1, time to claim bud.

[Starbuck]

I never said they were 3 obvscum. Last time I checked, the 3 people voting for EB couldn't quickhammer him. A scum could.

Did you not read that I said "EDBWOP: Never mind, I completely read that wrong."?

[Starbuck]

It's right below that post. /sigh

[Starbuck]

Wow, are you really getting snarky over that? Whatever...



Now back to your regularly scheduled mafia game....

If our lurkers ever decide to return....

[Starbuck]

Only thing that really stuck out was the complete support of every one of Ecto's statements and suspicions. Reads to me like she's overly defensive because she knows the suspicions are valid.

That last statement is very WIFOMish.

Also, why don't you take a re-read me and Ecto separately? You'll see that there is quite a bit that I disagreed with him about.

[Starbuck]

SCUMPOINTS for you my lady... There was no need for a claim with so many players absent and noncommital. If someone dared to hammer he should be lynched inmediatly. But it's fascinating how you pushed for a claim in a game where it ABSOLUTELY BENEFITS SCUM...

TELL ME ONE SINGLE SCENARIO WHERE IT WOULDNT.

So how is it "not needed" because so many people are lurking?

And, why couldn't he be scum that doesn't want to claim his role?


What if someone did hammer and EB flipped scum? Why are you not thinking of all the other scenarios?



It's almost like you are subtly hinting that you know his alignment.

1) No one should be hammering suddenly. There was no need to claim. That wasn't a serious bandwaggon.
2) stupid question deserves no response.

3) You want legitimate answers? This looks like you want to scold him as if he was giving you ilegitimate questions and lying... This pre-emptive attack is scummy.

1. How was it not a serious bandwagon when the guy was at L-1? One vote away from dying.

2. I agree that it was a stupid question, but did you see where it stemmed from?

Kunkstar stated:

He is was still at L-1 when I was asked to make this if I'm not mistaken, and there wasn't a hammer.

This pretty much alluded to me that he thinks that the request for a claim would be made when someone is hammered or after they are hammered.

3. Way to misrepresent me because I wasn't scolding him. I don't get where any of you think that someone being at L-1 isn't a serious bandwagon. The excuse that people were lurking really doesn't fly.

Give me ONE good reason for asking for a claim (in the context in wich you asked it) if you're a town player... You have none.

Way to assume and misrepresent me yet again.

Counterclaims. The only way that wouldn't work is if he was a VT.

So Parts is now at L-1, time to claim bud.

Ok... you're scum trying to look consistent.

Why can't I be town?

So far, you seem to have a full case on me, yet you're not voting me?


You and EB have been going on and on about how Starbuck is scum? Where's my wagon?

see? This is what town would do! Not what starbuck did.

Parts was lurking/getting replaced, where EB was active and EB could defend himself. You are insinuating that I'd never unvote. We never got to that point, so what's with the WIFOM?



You have defended EB far more than I think EB has defended himself all game.

Why are you so sure of him?


Also for the record, I have a female symbol under my name. I am no he.

[Starbuck]

So kunkstar, what happens when I flip town?

How will you feel about that?

[Starbuck]

How was that AtE?

I was asking kunkstar a question.




Also, I'll be tackling the 2 walls of text shortly.

[Starbuck]

Why wouldn't CSL's lynch give information?

[Starbuck]

So you are telling everyone that you are parroting off Badger then?

[Starbuck]

Alright CSL, what say you?

[Starbuck]

/sigh

Any counterclaims out there?

[Starbuck]

Yeah, I did, but I expected VT claims, not the doctor to claim.

[Starbuck]

Because I would hope that our town wasn't stupid enough to put our doctor at L-1. And noticed that no one has unvoted yet.

[Starbuck]

I'd never assume, unless a flip actually occurs, that anyone is who they say they are.

I was a bit perturbed that a whole like 6 hours went by without an unvote, thus could have left that open for scum to hammer.

[Starbuck]

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa...

Reaching much there kunk?

[Starbuck]

I am a Vanilla Townie. I've been defending myself all game, what else would you like me to defend?

If you only expected VT claims then what was the point of asking for a claim?

In my eyes, only scum would refuse to claim. Since two people have already refused to claim, they are most suspicious in my eyes.

[Starbuck]

If you feel the need to hammer me, CSL, go ahead, but longer days are better for the town.

[Starbuck]

And I'm asking you, the end all be all lurker, what would you like me to defend?

Do you have questions for me? Do you have a case on me that you need me to respond to?

[Starbuck]

I am not, I'm a Vanilla Townie.

And thanks for not even asking any questions to me before hammering.




@Town - You have a long way to go. Quit letting the mafia walk all over you.

[Starbuck]

By the way... I'm going to lynch Starbucks only if he is acting town-like, next time because I always suspect him wrongly

Starbuck is a SHE

[Starbuck]

My plan was to remove Starbuck from the game to have town get a clearer hold of what was going on. My plan worked, and we celebrate a town win.

I really don't understand why.

I had kunkstar nailed.

[Starbuck]

D1 was really rough for me. I'm still a bit boggled that both Ecto and Starbuck were both town. Lurking charges for not posting for a day is quirky. And in my final end-of-day summary read through X stood out as scum...but didn't seem like an ideal partner for Starbuck, and I felt it was too late to try to shift the lynch anyways. D2 with buck's flip he was obvscum.

So your suspicions on me really just carried over from Ecto then?

[Starbuck]

I always call for claims at L-1. Check any game I play.

When you are a VT, all you can do is offer your opinion. Everyone was under suspect. Maybe it would have been different if I started the game from the beginning.

[Starbuck]

If Badger had claimed. He wouldn't have been killed and we might've lost the game.

You are making absolutely no sense.

Badger and I were both VTs. It's pretty much guaranteed that a Vanilla claim is gonna get you killed.

Why do you assume he wouldn't have been killed if he claimed? I find it far more scummier that as a VT that he didn't claim.

[Starbuck]

Believe it or not, I normally don't agree with the people I replace. It's very odd for me to agree with a lot of what they have said.

That really wasn't an insult though. I would hope ANY town in ANY game wouldn't be stupid enough to put their doctor L-1.

[Starbuck]

My name is Starbuck, not Starbucks. The chick from Battlestar Galactica, NOT the coffee company.

Alex, I admit to my faults. I do it all the time.

That wasn't an insult. If you really want one, I can give you one. There's no need for your snarkiness. Although, it may seem like it, I'm really never going out of my way to be rude....sarcastic maybe, rude and mean never.

You can't conceive tone through text and unfortunately, I'm always a victim of that here and on the VA boards when I play mafia.


I now understand why Badger didn't claim. I didn't understand then why it would be considered scummy to call for a claim. Instead of going out of your way to insult me, you could have broken it down. This is my first uber small game. I'm used to playing Mini Themes or Large.

[Starbuck]

Wow, okay, alex. You win! Are you happy now?

The game is over dude, cool your heels.