Open 173: Pie E7 Game over
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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Because it immediately becomes lylo. Scum have a 40% chance of nailing a powerrole. It's not terribly difficult to talk yourself out of the inevitable policy lynch that people will try and force on you day two. You can always just be like 'oh I didn't see the votecount' and there are ALWAYS people who aren't comfortable policy lynching like that.
Town is left with trying to figure out the scum's partner with no info.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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Sorry, I meant you are posting a ton, but you haven't said much. You're just posting for the sake of posting, not to try and find scum.dramonic wrote:You know, voting me is nice and all, but you can't call me an active lurker when the game hasn't even stretched long enough for someone to receive a prod.
You wanna vote me, then make a case, don't just throw some crap together-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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Ok, policy ignoring hohum's posts.
Who are you most suspicious of currently?dramonic wrote:On one hand, I could vote Hohum for putting me at L-1 on page three, but that'd be hypocrisy.
On the other, I could vote you for being wagon-crazy, but RotM shows you do that as town.
On a third (!) hand, with the mod, the three of us form about 60~70% of the game so far and we got kicked out of RVS rather swiftly, I'm not going to vote somene without a read on them.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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Alright, last time I respond, I promise.hohum wrote:
You're ignoring me because you know I'm right. You're stubbornly refusing to admit that you're wrong about the setup, which tells me you're doing it on purpose and it wasn't an "oops I forgot to think ahead" mistake.charter wrote:Ok, policy ignoring hohum's posts.
You've admitted that you're not actually reading the thread but merely skimming through it.
This thread needs more charter lynching.
EXPLAIN IN CLEAR ENGLISH HOW TOWN GETS TWO MISLYNCHES IF SCUM QUICKHAMMER TOWN DAY ONE. GO ON.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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unvote
My vote is going on hohum, just going to wait a few pages before we lynch him. Here's his original reason for voting me.
All these things that I was arguing were right, and now he's changed his reason once I've pointed this out. He's just trying to get in a lynch, but doing it all wrong.Further experience tells me that scum like to fight this point in these small setups tooth and nail.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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First off, I did not criticize or pressure anyone in to putting dramonic at L-1 (unless you count "let's lynch him" which was obviously not serious). I asked why no one voted dramonic. I wanted to see what people said.
There's no need to wagon hohum, he's already outed himself as scum. I don't want a lynch right now because I am not sure who his partner is.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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I'll just answer for him, since he's probably going to spew some more BS. None of his reasons are valid. Plus, one good reason for thinking someone is scum is better than a dozen really bad ones.VP Baltar wrote:
But the original reason you found him scummy was proved erroneous, correct? You guys were having a pretty heated back and forth yesterday, how many of your listed reasons do you today think are indicative of him being scum?hohum wrote:Further, I've listed about half a dozen other reasons to vote charter. Charter on the other hand is holding on to exactly one reason to vote me.
I'm going to wait for KittyMo to post his thoughts before I start finding hohum's partner.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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Prod Amished please
I am ~50% sure it is Balter and Amished. Scien is just totally lost. hohum is a total idiot. Kittymo is being attacked by Balter, while he is ignoring Amished, though they are both guilty of lurking. Dramonic is obviously town. I believe that is everyone.
vote Balter
He is launching little attacks at hohum from behind me. He is ignoring Amished's lurking while voting Kittymo for lurking. Amished has just active lurked and lurked, never played with him, so I don't know if this is par for the course or not. I am slightly more inclined to think Balter is scum (in case they are not buddies), so I will be voting for him.
This being said, we need more posts from both Amished and Kittymo.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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I gain much enjoyability from the game. I do not value his opinions, and hence I lose nothing. I'm not really that sure of him being scum after reading the game Balter posted. He actually seemed like an intelligible human being in that one, this is the complete opposite.Scien wrote:What do you gain from not letting him speak. What do you gain from pushing that a certain person's voice is completely useless? Why do you think it would be better for him to sit in the corner and lurk rather than continue pushing a weak case if you truly believe him scum? Would not his over zealousness in pushing a weak case hasten his demise?
I'm not very sure of him being scum. I don't really care to hear more from him. Not sure of his role. If he keeps posting like that, and is town, he is creating a giant wall of idiocy for scum to hide behind. He will mislynch himself. If he just stops posting, it becomes more difficult for him to do that, while at the same time, everyone else is free to hunt scum.Scien wrote:Okay... lets try again. Do you think Hohum scum? Your vote is not placed so maybe not I guess... Why would you not like to hear more from him? Are you sure of his role one way or the other? I don't think you could be. Why shut him up if you don't know his role?
There's really no reason to read posts full of wrong like his are. All I get is frustrated and make posts like 'hohum is scum' because I can't imagine a townie making them. Once I just ignore his terrible posts, and focus on the rest of the game, scumhunting actually became much easier.Why? Why does it aid the town to ignore any information? Why... as a townie... would you not be concerned, and examining anything someone was saying. Especially since that person was attacking you at the time, and you as a townie would have to determine if that was due to nefarious motives or not?
The answer to the rest of your questions is I made those posts after dealing with hohum, and it seemed impossible that someone pushing such terrible ideas could possibly be town. Once I reread ignoring his posts, I found things in Balter and Amished I think are scum, without considering hohum's posts.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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Why did you switch from voting dramonic (I assume not a serious vote) to voting Kittymo if that also was not a serious vote? That is why I thought it was serious, I don't understand why you'd throw multiple not serious votes around.VP Baltar wrote:Charter-The difference between the two of them is that KittyMo had literally posted NOTHING when I voted her. If you think that was some sort of serious vote, then you are truly lost. While I agree that Amished needs to post, categorizing these two as posting essentially the same amount is not an accurate representation.
I believe I answered them.Also, why did you ignore the questions put to you by KittyMo and Scien?-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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Mostly active lurking/joking around.VP Baltar wrote:Charter, what is your assessment of Amished's posts before he went V/LA?
Scien. He seems to think hohum is making sense.Amished wrote:@Charter: I thought you were more logical early on, though I disagree with you about VP being scum so far. Who is your nominal choice for hohum's partner?
Amished's post was actually really good. It was nice to see a catch up post that didn't summarize the thread.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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I've already explained this. After he pushed all his crap, I thought he was scum. Once I reread with a clear head and read that game balter posted, I don't think he's scum anymore. You're lost because A) you're convinced I'm scum (I'm not by the way), B) you're ignoring everything in the game other than really blatent things you can pick out in the thread, that really have nothing to do with anything, and C) obsessing on things like 'charter ignores hohum's posts'. If there's a question you need answered, let me know and I'll answer, but I'm not going to do a giant quote war.Scien wrote:First. You have posted before that you are sure Hohum is scum, and you were just looking elsewhere to find a partner. Second. Hohum's not even a real suspect of yours? Third. How am I lost. I am asking questions in your general direction, and I am presented with avoidance. If you are town, wouldn't you typically answer were you could? Even though you decided to answer some of my concerns this time around, you conveniently avoided a few points of mine, and left them unanswered. What do you expect me to make of that?
Dramonic is really easy to tell if he's town or scum. He's town.
Why?Charter wrote:Dramonic is obviously town.
I already said, he isn't mislynching himself if he's town. No, getting people to spam the thread isn't an effective way of finding scum.Scien wrote:But how do you think a silent player would help the town? Don't you need to gather all the information that you can get?
Look at his votes.Scien wrote:How do you plan to become more sure of him? Especially when you want to do so while not talking to him?
He was asking who I'd pick to be hohum's partner. If hohum is scum, I think you're his partner. I don't see what there isn't to understand about that. I'm still voting Balter, but Amished's post was really town, so I'm not sure if he's Balter's buddy. I don't see a change back to someone else there. You're inventing these contradictions.
Way to reverse again. Not sure that Hohum is scum? Think that it is Amished and Balter? Oh, you said that Amished being V/LA changed things? Did it change things enough for you to go back to someone else scum? Fickle much?Charter wrote:[On Hohum's scum partner] Scien. He seems to think hohum is making sense.
Why on earth would you encourage this type of play? Instead of bickering with him, I'm ignoring him. You said yourself, he gets himself lynched for his bad play. That's what I'm trying to avoid if he's town since there's little margin for error. Why are you criticizing me for trying to avoid this by ignoring his posts?Besides all that I am going to level with the town straight here. I am trying something completely different here. I have not played a game yet with Hohum were he wasn't town, and didn't play like this. In our past games, I fought him long and hard about his play style, his methods of pressuring, his weak claims, and strong attacks. In the end that didn't serve the town well to attack him for that due to him eventually getting lynched for it while he was town. In this game I am actively doing the opposite. I am trying to aid in the pressure he is generating. Even while keeping a close eye on him.
Why does this make him scum?scien wrote:Back to me:
I am suspicious of Dramonic: I think he actively lied in thread, and I want to lynch him on this alone. Townies have no reason to lie. This has nothing to do with syntax. This has nothing to do with psychology. This is purely due to him "not finding the thread" after he got his PM, when the freggin thread would have been in the top 5 most recent threads at least, if he was as quick at checking as he suggested. The syntax thing just drives it home to me, even if it is weak enough that I can't use it to build my case to you.
If I miss a question, point it out and I'll answer it. My stance on hohum is this: I thought he was scum after his line of wrong/bad posts, I reread a while later and read the game balter posted, I wasn't very sure after that, and I saw something from Balter I thought was scummy.Scien wrote:I am suspicious of Charter: He has avoided some of my questions, even if in the same breath he answered others. He suspects Hohum, then he doesn't, then he does but won't vote, then he doesn't, then he does again. Sounds like a freggin flag in the wind.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11828scien wrote:Oh and what is Rotm?-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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Scien, I am NOT doing a quote war. I'm not going to answer any questions that boil down to why I don't want people spamming. The answer to any question of 'why don't you want more info' is because I don't want it if it's useless. I'm not answering any dumb questions of "how are you going to figure out his alignment?", scumhunting. I'm ignoring because I find the game more enjoyable and easier.
Why are you voting for me then? Twice. You're almost certainly wrong about dramonic though. False.Scien wrote:Nope. I am sure Dramonic is scum. I am examining you. There is a difference. True or false, you think anyone questioning you thinks you scum or is scum? [not rhetorical]
You haven't said anything about Kittymo or Amished. Why aren't you questioning them and giving them a reason to post? Doesn't seem like an effective way of getting as much info as you can, though when hohum posts useless posts, you criticize me for ignoring them. But you're ignoring two players! This is just the easy answer for me to give (still true though), by missing things, I meant stuff like Balter hiding behind me when questioning hohum. I see he's also hidden behind you as well, looks like you missed that too. You know, ACTUALLY scummy things.
I am ignoring nothing. Where am I ignoring things? [not rhetorical]Charter wrote:B) you're ignoring everything in the game other than really blatent things you can pick out in the thread, that really have nothing to do with anything
They really don't tell you if someone's posts are town motivated or scum motivated. Like now, for instance, I'd be giving all the same answers regardless of alignment, asking 20 questions isn't as useful as one really good question.Why are the things I am looking at meaningless? [not rhetorical]
Ok, I think I've found the root of this disagreement. Information is not the same as MOAR WORDS PLZ. Typing as much as you can is not information and is bad for finding scum. Doesn't matter who is typing a lot.
In your opinion what if a scum is the one doing the spamming? If a scum is giving you information like a fire hose, how does it hurt town?Charter wrote:No, getting people to spam the thread isn't an effective way of finding scum
You have much to learn.
As I have said before, townies would have NO REASON to lie in thread. Therefore liars are scum.Charter wrote:Why does this make him scum?-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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These are the two posts from Balter that led me to believe he is scum, I started this when I made my last post, but had to do a bunch of errrands. I'll just preface this by saying I'm really bad at explaining why something makes someone scum, just that they actually are scum quite often, so if I'm not clear, let me know.
andVP Baltar 121 wrote:What do you think of Scien's argument for a dramonic lynch?
In the first one, it's pretty bizarre that he asks just hohum. Hohum had already commented that he thought it was a good point. I believe he was asking to try and increase hohum's suspicion on dramonic (even though balter said Scien's argument was bad, which I agree with) by using Scien's argument, but it didn't really work. After asking it, we didn't hear another word from Balter about this. The other problem I had with it, was Balter seemed more concerned (in subsequent posts) with not lynching dramonic on page five than not lynching dramonic for a poor reason.VP Baltar 133 wrote:
But the original reason you found him scummy was proved erroneous, correct? You guys were having a pretty heated back and forth yesterday, how many of your listed reasons do you today think are indicative of him being scum?hohum wrote:Further, I've listed about half a dozen other reasons to vote charter. Charter on the other hand is holding on to exactly one reason to vote me.
Second one is the good one, it's an overly cautious way of questioning hohum's reasons for voting me. He's not trying to refute these reasons, just asking hohum to produce some good ones.
Like I said, terrible explanations, but I'm reasonably sure Balter is scum.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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Uhhh, literally anything you want? 'Hey Kittmo, who's your top suspect?' 'Kittymo, what do you think about this player?' 'Kittymo, what do you think about this post? Why?' I'd think any of these questions would be excellent and none of them require any previous posts by Kittymo.Scien wrote:But what can I question about?
The sooner you realize this is one of the worst mafia theories, the better. A LOT more people do not think LAL is valid than those that do.Scien wrote:Lynch all Liars. Smarter people than myself agree with that policy.
What I thought was him lurking, but he was V/LA.Balter wrote:Ok, so were your suspicions of him earlier based mostly on his play or the fact that he had not posted for a few days?
Not recently, maybe before he flaked.Balter wrote:@charter-have you played with hohum before? If so, what games?-
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charter Beware of Dog
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What led you to see a Scien/hohum scumteam as opposed to a Scien/anyone else or anyone/houm scumteam?VP Baltar wrote:
Ah, no. I saw there being a potential Scien/hohum scum team and I wanted to see if he felt Scien was making a good argument for dramonic's speed lynch. This came from Scien basically ignoring the bad points hohum was making in his argument with you. I was attempting to assess what sort of connection, if any, was between them. Most recently, Scien has stated that this is part of his strategy to interact with hohum in a more productive manner.charter wrote:In the first one, it's pretty bizarre that he asks just hohum. Hohum had already commented that he thought it was a good point. I believe he was asking to try and increase hohum's suspicion on dramonic (even though balter said Scien's argument was bad, which I agree with) by using Scien's argument, but it didn't really work.
I don't see where you've said or inferred dramonic is scummy. You just keep asking him to post useful stuff. What has he done that you find scummy? Why is this the first we are hearing about it?Balter wrote:
Well, I still think dramonic has acted scummy and I'm definitely not saying I wouldn't support his lynch at some point today. Doing so on page 5, however, is very sub-optimal play.charter wrote:The other problem I had with it, was Balter seemed more concerned (in subsequent posts) with not lynching dramonic on page five than not lynching dramonic for a poor reason.
Fine. I still think it's a scummy post, but I'll drop it.Balter wrote:
Again, you fail to understand how I scumhunt it seems, though my motivation for asking that should have been fairly obvious from the preface to the question. I wanted hohum to tell me if he still believed all of his reasons for attacking you the previous day because I think you were both being quite emotional at the time. Sometimes sleeping on an argument for a night will give you a new perspective on it, and I wanted to see if hohum's feelings had changed at all after he took a breather.charter wrote:Second one is the good one, it's an overly cautious way of questioning hohum's reasons for voting me. He's not trying to refute these reasons, just asking hohum to produce some good ones.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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Ok.
Balter, do you think there is a connection between hohum and Scien?
I'm not ignoring you, I missed that you said you thought dramonic was scummy. If you are itching for him to post useful stuff, why aren't you asking him questions to prompt this?
You had answers to my questions, but I still think you're scum.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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Part of the reason I still think you're scum. I'm not scum. I'm pretty sure dramonic is not scum. I don't think hohum is scum. Scien I could go either way on. Kittymo I could go either way on. Amished I'm leaning town. I will be lame and say gut in addition to those posts as for why I think Balter is scum. So, I can easily see two of Scien, Kittymo, and Balter as scum, and since Balter is voting Kittymo (why are you even still voting her?) it's unlikely that it's Balter and Kittmo together. Basically, any way I slice it, Balter comes in the picture as questionable.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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Oh. Ma. God. You. Suck.
But seriously, did you see my little explanation for why I still think you're scum, despite your answers?
Also, the last time I find you asked dramonic any questions was post 128, and he answered them. This was before you said you thought he was scum as well. I don't really count "Have you commented on these players?" you asked him, since it's a yes/no question and easily verifiable without asking dramonic. I don't see how this is ridiculous by me, if you claim to suspect dramonic for not scumhunting, but aren't questioning anything he's doing.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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No, I said I'd hammer you cause you're an idiot. OMG NOT READING THE THREADZ. ZOMGZ YOURE SCUM.hohum wrote:Charter: You sure do waffle a lot. In the space of 3 pages you've gone from saying I'm scummy to saying you have a town read on me and now I'm back to scum again.
Which is it? You have a bad read on me or you don't. It can't be both and it can't be either or when it suits your whims.-
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charter Beware of Dog
- Beware of Dog
- Beware of Dog
- Posts: 9261
- Joined: July 12, 2007
- Location: Virginia
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-
charter Beware of Dog
- Beware of Dog
- Beware of Dog
- Posts: 9261
- Joined: July 12, 2007
- Location: Virginia
-
-
charter Beware of Dog
- Beware of Dog
- Beware of Dog
- Posts: 9261
- Joined: July 12, 2007
- Location: Virginia
-
-
charter Beware of Dog
- Beware of Dog
- Beware of Dog
- Posts: 9261
- Joined: July 12, 2007
- Location: Virginia
-
-
charter Beware of Dog
- Beware of Dog
- Beware of Dog
- Posts: 9261
- Joined: July 12, 2007
- Location: Virginia