Open 172 - Mini Love - GAME OVER!

[Snow_Bunny]

/confirm.

[Snow_Bunny]

Vote: Dramonic

Blame a dice.

[Snow_Bunny]

I'm really sick, I'll read and post something after I feel better.

[Snow_Bunny]

First of all, forgive my absence. Though I'm not still at 100% health, I'm good enough to post something.

I'm really sick, I'll read and post something after I feel better.

Aw, hope you get well soon.

Thanks.

So who thinks the lovers should claim?
I'm pro-loverclaim.
Here are my reasons:
-The pro-town lovers will gain nigh immunity to night kills. If one set of lovers dies, we automatically lynch the other to catch scum.
-We can focus on other players, narrowing our day one lynch pool to eight.
However, I do acknowledge that it would put us in lylo after two mislynches, barring a doc protect, when it would usually only be mylo. I believe the pros outweigh the cons in this situation.

What do y'all think?

Somehow, this doesn't strike me as scum. It is a good plan I think. It'd have to be worked up a bit, but I think it's a good plan. I don't support it as it is right now, but I by no means think its scumplan. And I don't think Nikanor is rolefishing or something like that. He could, I mean, but I don't think he's doing it. In the other hand, I find more fishy the absolute negative he got from other players. I remember once in a large theme game (I was scum), where the town proposed a major name claim. I and some partners immediately stood up and said that it was no beneficial for town and started fighting against it, with the argument that it would help scum more than town. We obviously didn't want it because it would be a bad thing for us. And I think that's the same reason some players don't want that.

Nikanor: so what's the plan if one lover from each pair claims? How do you see this playing out?

Well, the advantage of this plan is that if we ever lynch the scum-town set of lovers, there will only be one claimed lover that can be killed by scum. That lover will be doc-protected, so we'll have confirmed town there, unless the scum can hit the other lover by chance.
If we lynch the pro-town lovers.... well, we'll lynch the other claimed lover.

I didn't get this. Care to explain it a bit clearer?

I am in two games, one with a Snow Bunny and one with a Snow White and both with Locke Lamora, and I am definitely getting them confused in my head.

I am playing a game with you? Sorry, but I don't remember you...

Ok, in conclusion, I still need to read more, but so far that's my opinion: Nik didn't strike me as scum for proposing the lover claim. I don't support it, but I think its a good plan. And, about the RVS thing, I think it's always bad when a player tries to extend it. Usually, it only slows down town, and that's never a good thing to do.

[Snow_Bunny]

I think we've discussed a lot about the upcoming days and we're forgetting today.

[Snow_Bunny]

I remember once in a large theme game (I was scum), where the town proposed a major name claim. I and some partners immediately stood up and said that it was no beneficial for town and started fighting against it, with the argument that it would help scum more than town. We obviously didn't want it because it would be a bad thing for us. And I think that's the same reason some players don't want that.

Then you think all of the people who opposed it are scummy?

No, I'm just saying that there could be scum in the people who opposed it, unlike the general reaction that the claim will benefit scum.

I like how you're making an argument based on an anecdote from another game that may or may not apply to us. Would you like to join us in Mini Love 172 and make an argument specific to our current situation?

What current situation? I gave my opinion about the claiming part, which I believe was the current situation.

[Snow_Bunny]

Well, meta is useful (not that I like it; it bores me to no limit to read other games just for meta) as it tells you how will people likely react to certain roles. For example, if you always play active when you are town, and lurking when you are mafia, that's a meta others can use to say if you are town or mafia in this game.

Any roads, dramonic's looking scummy to me. Also, his three votes really don't have a reason. After further investigation, Nik's also looking scummy. Maybe a dram-nik scum team.

So far I'm happy with my vote on dramonic.

[Snow_Bunny]

What's the case on Yankee again?

[Snow_Bunny]

What's the case on Yankee again?

Read above.

If Yankee flips scum, I'm going to remember this post of yours, Snow.

The above is not enough. What's the case?

[Snow_Bunny]

The above is not enough. What's the case?

I'm not going to explain it to you. Just read Yankee's posts. Do you not find him scummy?

Well, yes. He's kind of scummy.

Vote: Yankee

[Snow_Bunny]

Ok, I'm here.

I don't have time for an in depth analysis, but the scum are: Netlava, Snow_Bunny, and Looker.

And you base this attack on...?

[Snow_Bunny]

Well, yes. He's kind of scummy. Vote: Yankee

I'm going to remember this, too~.

What's with you and remembering things? If you have something to say, say it now. Keeping info from town is not good. I still don't get what's this relationship you want to build between Yankee and me. And, so, now that Yankee has claimed lover, what are your thoughts on me?

Snow Bunny, I presume you did a read of Yankee's posts like Nik asked you to, since you say you agree that he's scummy. What exactly do you find to be scummy?

I notice that Snow_Bunny has ignored this. If Yankee flips scum, Snow deserves a lynch for her obvious distancing on Yankee.

What? Distancing? Pfft.
I'll answer to Vino's question: He just struck me as scummy. Nothing general, just placed a voted there for further pressure. His posts resembled those of newb scum, and thus I get this scummy vibe from him (I still get it, even now more after his claim and his

failed

"self-hammering").

And hopefully so will everyone else if Yankee flips town, you can't bully people into believing what you believe. Ask my science teacher

That wasn't the point of me posting that. The point is that Snow looks like Yankee's buddy, even more so now with her vote on Yankee.

Really, what's up with you and seeing a non-existence relationship?

~~~~~
At this point in my post, I notice that the Yankee wagon has been built much too quickly for him to be scum. Disregard everything I've said about Yankee being scummy for now. Snow_Bunny is scum for her vote on Yankee.

Unvote. Vote: Snow_Bunny.

~~~~~

How am I scummy for voting one person? How? Explain. Your reasons fail to reach me.

Geez, you are tunneling me without any real bases on it. Distancing? Where? When? How? Voting for me because I voted for someone else when that person seems scummy? That's like the lamest reason ever! Scum trying to frame me, not good.

Unvote, vote: Nikanor

I still think Yankee is scummy, but let him be for now. Nikanor, however, with his tunel-vision and constant baseless attacks on me, deserve a vote. Trying an early myslynch? Won't work.

[Snow_Bunny]

I'm a bit behind in this game. Will catch up soon.

[Snow_Bunny]

Well, let's start catching up.

Geez, you are tunneling me without any real bases on it. Distancing? Where? When? How? Voting for me because I voted for someone else when that person seems scummy? That's like the lamest reason ever! Scum trying to frame me, not good.

Lamest reason of all. I thought my voting Slepz so as not to forget him was the lamest reason of all...but, then again, I can't find the post to quote so I'll drop it.

That was directed to me or to Nikanor?

Most of my suspicion comes from gut.

How does one agree with gut feelings?

Also, you are pushing a little too hard that SnowBunny is scum because of her supposed distancing on Yankee. You then switch your vote to her because she's voting Yankee.
It looks like you and Yankee are scum and you are trying to maneuver your way into a vote on someone other than Yankee.

Yep, I think the same. If either of them turn scum, we should check on the other one.

Snow_Bunny:
(38)For future reference, NEVER mention in the thread that your vote is determined by die, even if it is.
(153)If you think it’s a good plan, why don’t you support it?
(246)”Kind of” is not enough for a vote, especially the third one (which is in no way referencing the 3rd Vote Theory).
(278)The whole tone of this post is scummy. It’s like you’re being half aggressive, half abrasive, half joking. 3 halves do not make a whole, and bad fractioning is scummy (kidding on both points, but the post is still scummy).
I guess I have a prejudice against Snow coming into this game, since she replaced out of another game I'm currently in, and the majority thinks she replaced out because she was trapped scum.
Scum Score Scale: 7.5/10

1- People often tell me that, but I don't care much. Either I roll a dice or vote for someone known in the rvs. People say that a dice ruins the whole random voting thing, but, it's supposed to be random. What more randomness than a dice?
2- Don't twist my words, please. I say it's a good plan that needed some to be worked up before I could support it. Like, it's in its way to be a good, followable plan, but not yet as it is. The point of my words were to say that I didn't think it was a scumplan.
3- No? Who says so? If there isn't someone better in the moment, a pressure vote is always good. In case of a quicklynch I'd probably had unvoted, but for that moment my vote was good.
4- What's scummy about it? Where I was half-joking? I was damn serious, you know? Half abrasive? What do you mean?
5- Prejudices aren't good. Really, I can't see why I scored so high, but well, it's your opinion, and I guess you are free to have it your way.

Snow, ignoring the bandwagon targets (Yankee and I) what do you think of the other players?

Hmm... I'll answer this after I catch up with the game. Would take more time than I have now. For now I'll give a quick scumlist from what I've read (no real in-depth analysis):

Scummy people
Nikanor - Yankee (this is a tie)
Khamisa
Looker
dramonic

Not scummy people
Vino
Kirbyoshi
HH

Not enough to say something
Locke Lamora
Ani
Netlava

Well, that's all for now. I'm totally believe that either Yankee or Nikanor are scum (or well, the both of them). Yankee's overall play, and his selfvotes just strike me as too scummy, and taking into account the plan on lynching lovers, seems like a great lynch for today. But Nikanor with his vote-jumping, lame reasons behind votes (really? That vote on Vino was just... wordless), and overall scummy play is also another great lynch. I'm happy with either of them in the gallows today.

[Snow_Bunny]

Claiming post-lynch? Well, that's new to me. I always thought claims were made before lynch, but well, maybe I'm just getting old.

[Snow_Bunny]

Ah, if we're going to lynch a lover, I'd prefer it be Yankee.

[Snow_Bunny]

Ah, I don't know. I'm leaning to think that Yankee is really the treacherous lover. And that Khamisa is his scumbuddy. Why? Well, he unvoted so near the deadline, meaning that Khamisa is less likely to be hit at deadline.

But in the other hand... Nik is also scummy. I can easily see a Nik-Kham-Yankee team, with some busing. One way or another, Yankee is really scummy.

MFOS: Yankee

[Snow_Bunny]

Oh, right. My bad. But still, Yankee and Nik are very scummy, and either one of them should die today.

[Snow_Bunny]

Well, I'll move to a Yankee lynch. However, as I don't want a no-lynch, if by tomorrow Yankee doesn't have enough votes, I'll return to Nik.

Unvote, vote: Yankee

Come on, let's lynch the scum.

[Snow_Bunny]

Mod: Wouldn't you update the votecount? With things like they are, a marking to the possible deadline lynch would be good as well. Thanks.

[Snow_Bunny]

Ok, thanks mod.

[Snow_Bunny]

This is unacceptable. Claim now or die.

I told you I can't. I lost the pm, and I don't remember my role.

Must... resist... urge... to lynch...

[Snow_Bunny]

@Kham: I already said it was my mistake.

@Nik: If you lost your role PM, and don't remember it, how can you be so sure of your wincon?

Ah, I don't know anymore. For one thing I'm sure: I rather lynch Yankee or Nik than Kham. In fact, I think Nik just crossed the line. At least Yankee is a lover, and that can always be looked up later. I think Nik is shielding in the two claimed lovers as to protect himself for the time being. He doesn't want to claim as he can be easily counterclaimed by another person (unless he claim VT, which still doesn't help his case).

Unvote. Vote: Nikanor

Come on, we need to lynch the scum.

[Snow_Bunny]

You shouldnt need to ask people permission to vote

Also, Vino is up on my Scumdar, so I am just as willing to lynch him as I am Khamisa's lover, Dramonic, or animorph... But it is still my opinion that we should lynch Khamisa and her lover and me and HH take our chances in the night with the doc...

Ha, this is quite interesting. First, you wanted to self-hammer. Now, you are asking to let you live another night. Really, you are the lover that makes less sense, the most scummy, the most anti-town.

And, why is Nik's wagon scummy?

[Snow_Bunny]

You said it yourself, among the three lovers, you are, by far, the most scummy. And out of everyone, you rank second, with Nik just a bit ahead of you.

[Snow_Bunny]

considering ISO 48, why do you guys still want to lynch Vino or Nik or a nonlover? I'd like a direct response.

ISO 48 of whom?

[Snow_Bunny]

Ok, it seems the number favor lynching lovers. So, back to Yankee...

Unvote. Vote: Yankee

[Snow_Bunny]

I don't like ani at all. That kind of lying can only came from scum, as I can hardly think of any reason a town would do it. But, I don't want to hammer so early, either. :/

[Snow_Bunny]

Did we break some kind of record?

[Snow_Bunny]

I actually just went back and looked and i agree with Nikanor's reasoning. Snow_Bunny was the only person with their vote on me at the end that is not a confirmed town or Dead scum..... Everyone else voted for Khamisa and lynched the Treacherous Lover Looker.

This Means 2 things, 1). Snow_Bunny just got a whole lot more scummy in my opinion, and i Still think Vino is scum based on how he was pushing to lynch me the entire day (so was dramonic if i remember correctly). and 2). At least 1, if not both Scum voted to lynch the Treacherous Lover.

Also another thing i find scummy about Snow_Bunny is how she quit another game i was playing with her in which her role was lynched and was confirmed town, but in this game she didnt stop playing, but instead just has become less active. I think this signifies a PR at least, most likely a scum role. Also in this game she seemed to jump on all the bandwagons that looked like they were going to yield a lynch, except for Khamisa's.

I think it is a safe bet to vote Snowbunny today, and Vino can wait until tomorrow

Unvote, Vote: Snow_Bunny

Also, my top 3 suspects at the time are Snow_Bunny, Vino, Dramonic, in that order.

So, based on your logic you must be scum as well as you pushed for your lynch too. I first voted for you, for a reason, probably not strong enough, but after the day moved on you just earned that voted. And, how was I suppose to know that Khamisa and Looker were the treachearous pair at that moment? You stroke me as the scummiest (even more than Nik, and hence my vote on you and not him).

Btw, that game you're talking about, I replaced out because of the mod. Nothing else, nothing more.

@Nik: What's in Looker's posts that make me look scummy? You know, in my first game here in this site with this account, scum tried to buddy another player, and we later lynch him just to find he was townie, and thus we lose the game. Don't try to rise suspicions on me based on what another player said.

I also agree with Kirbyoshi that Netlava's hammer came rather as opportunistic. There's also a hint of his posts in D1 that make me think he's scummy.

For now, I'm happy with

Vote: Netlava

[Snow_Bunny]

Ah, I forgot about this one.

My, L-1 already? Geez, way to screw up your doctor. I protected Nik night 1, and thus I believe he's town (and thus why I didn't keep attacking him any more on the other days).

[Snow_Bunny]

Right, because you are town, scum. Ah, go figure... I thought you were town all this time.

I didn't think mafia would target the lovers so early on, and thus that make me think of something to confirm Nik. Nik was a very active player, regardless of my thoughts on him, and a likely mafia target. If I protected him and there was no NK, then he would be confirmed. If there was a NK other than the lovers, then he would likely be mafia. On N2 I decided to protect HH.

More likely I'll be dead by tomorrow. Either you lynch me now or mafia NK me. It's obvious who to lynch tomorrow. If you lynch me now, we end the day with 5/2. Tomorrow we start with 4/2. You lynch Kirby and we end the day with 4/1. We start the next day with 2/1, lylo.

In the other hand, if we lynch Kirby now, we end the day with 5/1. Tomorrow we start with 4/1. We have then plenty of chances of lynching the last scum.

My suspicious lay in Kirby (duh, though I never thought you were scum. I was getting a good vibe from you.) Netlava follows, then dramonic and Vino. Out of all, I'm still surprised about Kirby. It shows my read powers aren't great yet.

[Snow_Bunny]

My suspicious lay in Kirby (duh, though I never thought you were scum. I was getting a good vibe from you.) Netlava follows, then dramonic and Vino. Out of all, I'm still surprised about Kirby. It shows my read powers aren't great yet.

Full reasons as well as a score on a ten-point scale, please.

Kirby 10/10 -> Obv obv
Netlava 8/10 -> That hammer is quite scummy, opportunistic.
Dramonic 7/10 -> Since D1 I've gotten a scum vibe on him. Can't remember well the reasons.
Vino 5/10 -> Something odd here, but nothing like the previous two.

Can't believe I miss it.

Unvote, vote:Kirby

[Snow_Bunny]

Hmmm... You saying that makes me think you are trying to protect someone else. Dram? Vino? Hmm...

[Snow_Bunny]

I just forgot. Then I saw the vote count and said to myself: "Myself, why our vote isn't there?" And fixed it.

[Snow_Bunny]

Uh?

[Snow_Bunny]

In this game scum counterclaimed me when I claimed cop. Scum can benefit from the counterclaim, as it can possibly lead to town lynching the doc, and thus gaining an advantage.

Regarding the protection on N2, I think that is all nulltell. I myself thought that mafia would try to hit the lovers that night.

Kirby appealing to emotion with the "first time with a pr" doesn't look good, in the other hand. Oddly enough, since he counterclaimed and the pressure fell on him he's starting to act different. Before that, I thought Kirby was town. But now (and without taking into account the scummy cc), he looks really scummy.

But again, it's not up to me to decide. I know he's scum. It's up to you guys to see who you are going to lynch.

[Snow_Bunny]

Well, at least this game will work for future reference when scum cc and beat town on it.

Go town!

[Snow_Bunny]

Fun game. Shame we lose. T_T

Well played, town. I thought for a moment we could win.

[Snow_Bunny]

I'm curious about that as well. You know what made the town win? The doc protecting Nik N1.

I told you guys! We should have gone for a different target!

[Snow_Bunny]

Yeah, no problem by me posting the quicktopic.

Here's it: http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/iv8S6HnTgt4