Open 871 - The Haunted Village | Postgame

[Kaito Momota]

The paranthetical you quoted does indeed only work in the case where std and futive are partners. I said it myself how I don't find it likely, so I don't get where you find me assuming people guilty until proven otherwise. If anything I have advocated for the idea of them being partners to be rejected.

I'm saying, why did you feel the need to even entertain the idea to reject it at that point in game?

Why can't they just be posting what is on their mind?

[Kaito Momota]

I'll wait to say why to see if anyone else catches it and they have the same reasoning.

I don't see it

[Kaito Momota]

Here is my spin on bianco:

They seem like a person who is putting a lot of effort in. That's not a bad thing, just an observation. Their post 48 seemed like they were saying whatever came to their mind to me.

Post 49 by Saihara Shuichi takes issue with that by pointing out that they aren't saying much, but I think that is just a side effect of writing out their thoughts at the time.

I disagree with post 50 by Kyoko Kirigiri. Specifically, the assertion that post 48 was putting events in the way bianco wanted them; I'm not seeing that, and I don't think shading people is inherently suspicious

[Kaito Momota]

"Effort is not bad" yeah but the effort seemed fabricated IMO

That is what I disagree with; I don't think it looks fabricated, I think it looks like stream of thought

[Kaito Momota]

I actually pretty much said the same thing Saihara was seeing at the same time. Assumptions not Making any conclusions thrown out for no reason.

Unless I read what he said wrong?

I think you diverged at the end where you said that they were putting events together to work towards a goal

[Kaito Momota]

Usually throwing away random assumptions everywhere without trying to conclude anything is either busy working or is from a perspective that want to pain everyone guilty.

This is a fair point

[Kaito Momota]

Im so non confrontational I'm gonna townread everyone that wants me dead apparently

If you're right that it's all in lurkers then it's big brain well played to you

This is just feeling like Temple. It's a shame because I like playing with you

Which means you randomly guessed I was scum in temple and now you can't stop you won't stop

I should post less crap though, just happy to be playing is all

Temple game was more about your predecessor, but I mean that your tone here is similar to there

i don't think gimli is like temple here tbh

Can you guys explain this for those of us who weren't in that game?

[Kaito Momota]

This is Temple. Gimli repped into a doomed scum slot

Was hoping to have it explained to me rather than being asked to read a different game

[Kaito Momota]

Here's the wall. In nice spoiler so that it won't fill the screen.

Spoiler: Wednesday

I will ignore posts I don't find significant.
118: I agree with Wednesday here that Gimli's sus on her is not really founded, in fact just posting some rvs placeholder and then disappearing is the sort of thing I'd do myself if a game were to begin while I had RL things to do -- frankly, I don't really care for the implication here that Wednesday was faking that.
That said, I'm unsure if that line of thinking is necessarily scum indicative, it is going for the easy fish though, so Wednesday's vote may be justified; it is however a somewhat agressive post (yes, I used that adjective myself this time).
As for the buddying comment, well I also saw it as already remarked, but people seem to think it was just a joke and I can get behind that, I just don't think it was a good joke.

133: I don't necessarily agree that switching votes rapidly during D1 is very scum indicative. If anything reveals some fluidity that I believe could more easily come from town. And I don't think that Gimli is "making votes for the sake of it", his votes are justified (even if, indeed, flimsily). I think this post is +scum actually.

146: that's fine, but I think asking to motivate a sus read on oneself is more likely to come from groupscum (I have no data on this, this is just based on my forma mentis. If anyone has data to back off the converse, I'll gadly hear it). So half +scum.

148: I actually like this interaction. The unvote seems to corroborate that Wednesday actually espouses the view in #133, as #142 does indeed alleviate the perception she had that Gimli's vote were just random. +town

149: whatever. The explanation is sound, and I also agree to the distaste of Gimli's vote for her, but I won't give her town cred for this.

176: see, this is a pretty inconsequential friendly banter. However, I point that out because post #127 is also inconsequential banter, and their both with STD. At this point I don't think it's consequential, but notice how STD was actually the only player Wednesday approached to in this manner (excluding quoting NM's read list, but then again lots of people, myself included, did that at some point).

total: 0.5+scum

Spoiler: STD

20: you already know what I think of this. +scum.

38: a bit defensive, idk if that was warranted. I'm gonna give this a 0.25+scum.

42: this and the following are nulls. I don't know why exactly STD had to remark in #43 that #42 was stilted, I don't think it particularly was and I don't get the need to excuse oneself even if it was, but I don't want to read to much into it.

76: idk, I don't agree with this vote. While I don't agree with Kyoko's criticism of me either, that seemed to me an honest attempt to scumhunt. Scumreading them over "being too nitpicky" with that (cfr #91, #92) seems a little forced. +0.5scum

90: of this post I like how my TR is apparently, cfr 94, not set in stone. It was not actually challenged afterwards, hough one must assume that if #76 were genuine than the TR on me probably is too. The Kaito TR is also reasonable.

132--141, 179: I'm ignoring meta posts rn, at least possibly until I find the will to go read games.

144: eh, the question is legitimate. +town

157: eh, this one I like less, falls somewhere in the category of asking about own SRs. Though I'm giving STD some slack for it.

159, 165: gut readings are fine, especially this early. Fuyuhiko apparently doesn't like that, and that may be reasonable, I just don't agree that's particularly AI at this point.

180: I genuinely didn't understand this post. Does what? @STD, I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, I would just like a clarification. I'm guessing it is trivially linked to 183?
Btw, 183 seem like a genuine attempt to workshop, I'm giving it +0.25 town.

191: while I also find #38 distasteful, this response to Kokichi is credible. I guess it could be construed as attempting to negate all further attempts at using meta to read him, which idk if I like. +0.25scum.

total: 0.75+scum

Spoiler: Penguin

65: it's possible I'm just dumb, but this post doesn't make any sense to me? There were not two competing equivalent wagons, mine was already the largest and not tied with anyone. +0.25scum.
Also I resent the implication that my user is difficult >:(

67: uhm. Noncommital, but idk how much to read into it.

135: I mean, the wiki says that buzzword is a buzzword. Though I'm willing to actually give this and 137 +0.5town, this is a gut feeling but it's just that it seems to me it is quite to brazen for a scum.

total: +0.25town

Spoiler: Penguin

Spoiler: furtive

9: I actually read this as null. I guess it could be beneficial to town to start analysing mech early, though this one remark is pretty shallow and quite trivial, so a scum could have easily made it without really hurting anything.

13: this I like... a bit less, since he was the one to start doing setup spec. I'm giving it +0.25scum for that, though the awkward thing is that I actually agree with the suggestion here.

15: eh, that explanation does not actually completely alleviate the uneasiness.

21: this is a bit brazen, I actually don't hate it. At the very least is not panicky. Let's say +0.25town.

30: same thing as for #9; it's all well and good we know that, but the utility is so little that a scum could have easily made this observation without hurting anything. I'm not gonna give town cred for that.
About the Wednesday jokes, I do believe he just meant he didn't like those as jokes, at least as of 40, so whatever

117: about PP, I don't like doing meta, maybe when I'll have the will I'll check the veracity, though I do appreciate the comment.
I'm not 100% sure I do like the Gimli comment though, in a way it's, somewhat ironically, a bit surface level. Now I like that furtive is sharing some early reads, and I'm giving some town cred for that, but that's not really enough effort for me to give much. +0.5town

129--138: meta, meta, meta. I don't know meta.

151, 158: I don't care much for the assumption that Wednesday's vote would look particularly bad after town!Gimli flips; it is true that Wednesday was tunnelly and all, but to say that would implicate that Wednesday is probably not town if Gimli is is a lot of a stretch. I also don't care about the need to comment on the optics of what will happen when Gimli flips town, I of course get that it was just an argumentative hypothesis, it's just that sussing Wednesday on the fact that she would be sus assuming the veracity of a particular hypothesis sound off. +0.75scum, not a full +scum because I liked #151 in isolation.

199: eh, may be a decent attempt to get some interactions. +0.25town

205: That's bantery. May mean nothing though.

Spoiler: Gimli

6: I though it could be buddying, but people seem to think it's just a joke and whatever, I can manage to see it being that.

22, 23: that's well and good, but, like, why? +0.25scum
(also, I noted Gimli did call Fuyuhiko as huyuhiko a couple times. Is this just a typo or there is some lore reason to it, just curios)

28: I am willing to concede this may just be a late RVS vote and go on.

39: okay, but again, why exactly is that? Like, am I wrong in getting so upset about this? +0.5scum

46: eh, I actually do like this post. It's attempting to call out furtive on backpedaling, though I'm not convinced he was in the first place. Still, +0.25town.

56, 59: the TRs are fine. I'm unsure how I should thik about being defended like this though, I'm always a bit paranoid it may be buddying. Whatever, +0.25town.

63, 64: inciting discussion; that's good. +0.5town

87, 100: idk, lots of TRs. The STD things is probably a joke, but a bit distasteful to me, though I'll leave this at null.

116: it's a bit of a stretch alright. She may have had RL issues or whatnot, I feel like discounting this may be the case is slightly rude, but more to the point is slightly going for the easy target. +0.25scum, but I'm not sure on this.

122--124: uh. What. +0.25scum

142: the explanation makes sense. +0.25town

total: 0.75+scum

Spoiler: Kokichi

33, 37: this to me seems a towny thing to do. I suppose it's possible for scum to do that to throw some easy shade, but also I don't think it would be effective at all. On the other hand, a Townie is either genuine, and so the vote is fine and also trying to see if someone else is of the same opinion to corroborate one's own is fine, or is attempting a reaction test which clearly has more utilty for town. +town.

190: this is on the same page as me thinking #38 to be slightly defensive. Kokichi here seems to be genuine, +0.25town

196: yeah, that line of reasoning is... flimsy at best. Though they're right that it would have taken us out of RVS, and doing so I believe is protown. I'm not giving extra town cred for this post in itself, since it was after the fact.

total: 1.25+town

Spoiler: Saihara

49: this post I like. I don't think it seemed fabricated concern, and it was good to initiate the game proper. +town

95--103: It was not a good job at convincing, but wathever.

total: 1+town
In all manners, my previously stated TR on Saihara stands.

Spoiler: Kyoko

50: I have already answered to the content of this post, and made clear my opinions on it. I want to say that, however, that some of the criticism in my original 78 are clearly resolved by 80, which does clear a lot of the doubts I had on her. With that, #50 does seem actual effort to scumhunt, so +town.

104: I'm not sure I understand the meaning of the embedded picture. Not reading anything wrong into it, I'm just genuinely unsure.

112: eh, that's good. Well, I don't agree completely, though this is a pretty lucid explanation that I don't see scum making. +0.5town.

total: 1.5+town

Spoiler: Fuyuhiko

14--18: eh, a little quick to draw conclusions, but not completely unreasonable. +0.25town

145: ok. Don't think it's an AI thing to say though.

149 (I also believe 152 ties to this): since you're not the first to ask, I was under the impression that a FoS was just a way to signal willingness to vote a spot one find suspicious -- and so that a vote is no longer a FoS, since you already acted on that willingness. From what I'm understanding from here, I probably understood that wrong.

154: that's actually a reasonable question, though my judgment of Kaito may be clouded, since most of the things they said tie to me. +0.25town

156: why? It does come across as a bit brisky, I'll admit that.

164: as I said, I don't think gut reads are necessarily scummy. And the tone here seems a bit sarcastic to me, which I would imagine could possibly be some sort of veiled accusation. +0.25scum (but I'm not the best at reading tone...)

172: is this remark somewhat offhanded or what? I don't get if it sais that they're reading Gimli as town for that post, or sarcastically that they find all their other post so scummy that that one is the towniest.

178: this actually shows coerency with #156 and #164, so I'm gonna put it down as a bit townie-looking. +0.25town

total: 0.5+town

Spoiler: others

• Kaito is mostly talking about me and others' interactions with me, so it would be difficult for me to comment on them. I don't have actual reasons to scumread them at the moment, and in fact I do like the fact they're not hard TRing me and are in fact willing to entertain Kyoko's points, like in #108.
  
• Not_Mafia is just null. I don't think that the fact they put themself on the bottom does necessarily mean the list is trash, I think it's just memey. I also don't think the list is of much value, looks like is there mostly as joke anyway.

There is a lot of thought put into this post, and it seems genuine

[Kaito Momota]

Furtive/Gimli post way too much idk how to say that nicely without seeming like a jerk. I think there's a possibility of them to be scum, but this wouldn't be the day to figure it out. I dunno Furtive's deductive reasoning is half-baked and even penguinpower called out his misuse of chainsawing earlier lol

Lot of players itg I feel ambivalent about either because they have no thread presence or because they haven't really given me much

Example off the top of my head is that Fuyu has a vote on StD since first page and hasn't developed it and has done the equivalent of just poking him of just poking him in the ribs

I'd like to see more just than pokes

This also feels genuine

[Kaito Momota]

just some fast surface level - skimming - reads
I actually like gimli's way of engaging with people and making content, I feel he has a progressive mindset and is actually trying to solve in a genuine way (call it mostly gut)
I like biancospino more. I think what he did on that first post aligns well with rest of his play style (and specially how he organized that wall) and I find his consistency in his way of sorting things + town
I didn't like Wednesday posts. felt so shallow and on surface and didn't have any analyzing, just for sake of engaging. wanna see were it leads

maki not liking my going hard on biancospino in an attempt to start actual discussions and provoke reactions is an interesting reaction cause its against the flow of reactions that are about it in-game thread. I say interesting cause its probably + towny behavior but need to analyze it along size more clues to be able to brand it as towny or null.

I have some ideas in general about most other slots too, but I'm too tired right now as I had the toughest past 2 days ever and am sleepy right now

I like this post and have also been liking Bianco recently

Kaito didn't acknowledge these votes in their most recent appearance. Granted I didn't make a case so there wasn't much to respond to, but it's weird they didn't even comment on it.

I'm just lazy/busy doing other stuff. I saw that people were voting for me, likely for being low effort, nothing much for me to comment on without

Browbeating isn’t exactly a scumtell, it’s just a behavioral pattern. I liked Dragons pointing it out because I had also been rather perturbed by the stern reaction to my question about the townblock. I also think his saying you didn’t give a fuck who is scum was reading into your post to see something that wasn’t there, but it also might still hold a kernel of truth given your apparent lack of interest in finding scum outside the players currently suspecting you.
And I don’t understand why you place such value on Maki’s reads. Seems meta-related, which raises a question of why you’re so concerned about staying secret whilst not really caring to veil your own meta usage.

VOTE: Wednesday Addams
Thinking about it I might still be on Dragons so I’ll vote here to rectify that.

I think it’s absolutely understandable for me to think you’re scum even if Gimli is browbeating you. Bad-faith interactions don’t preclude a person from being scum. And your way you described yourself alongside your lack of interest in forming scumreads that actually go beyond “you suspect me so I suspect you” makes me feel like you could be scum that is just a tad too candid.

This push feels like it comes from town because it pushes on somebody who is likely to suspect them in return for doing so, and a few people have voiced suspicions on Fuyuhiko already

[Kaito Momota]

Kuzu is looking for reasons to wolfread people over really believing anything they're pushing. It's like throwing something at a dartboard and praying someone will cling on. It's pretty obvious scrambling. But, I don't really feel the need to convince anyone on this. I'm keeping an eye on Kiri, given their personality I expect them to have some strong opinions, and if they just take a backseat I'll be raising an eyebrow at that.

I disagree with both of these reads. I think we should be keeping an eye on you instead.

[Kaito Momota]

Let me a tentative towncore that's frankly too big to be correct.

Maki/kyoko/Wednesday/furtive/fuyuhiko/bianco/Shuichi

I think all those people are town. In before all scum in this, but whatever.

So we have kaito/std/kokichi/penguin/nm sort of ridiculous POE

Kokichi probably the towniest in this row.

VOTE: Penguin

Just potatoing this game so far, and they like big wagons so let's make one with him

I'll vote here since 1 vote on Kaito probably does nothing, but I'd like to see more from them.

VOTE: PenguinPower

Why do you think it is a good idea to switch your vote to PenguinPower?

[Kaito Momota]

I feel like being obstinate with my read on bianco and continuing to increase in volume until something changes

Bianco is very likely scum and I'm willing to bet my marbles on it.

I feel confident about this as I believe his behavior is highly indicative of scum. I've gestured about it and I've voted him but I still feel like I'm not being listened to. I need a way to curb my own frustration before it turns into resentment.

Now I'm not telling you that my word is gospel. I'm not saying that my choice is the only one that matters, but I feel the best I could do in this situation is be forthright. There's a lot of it being D1 but this is actually the perfect time to nail unanticipated scum.

OK, enough prefacing this.

I think that bianco's verbiage as put himself is telling.

It was telling when I said something before and it's telling now. I believe that Bianco's speech does not translate into a curious townie who is considering all the options, rather a scum who is weighing on every possibility. All bianco has done is retell events.

Bianco only does what is required.

If you go look at his walls and the conclusions you can reach is that his wall was made from anything other than requirement then get your head on straight. Go look at it even on a skim. That's a wall made by scum who is getting by on the merit of effort. A few formatting and specifics is enough to whet people's appetite? His analysis is bone dry. Even himself doesn't seem particularly interested.

Bianco's motivations are lacking.

Town has a responsibility to read other players and determine their alignment. Scum pretend to do this. Interaction happens as this is a text-based game. Not exactly philosophical there but I believe he is pretending. I believe this as his own responsibilities entirely are dependent on other players. Look at how many times bianco has either 1) Responded to someone 2) Clarified a point made from someone else. You should not be shocked to see this makes up most if not all of his posts outside of his "wall."

His perspective remains to be limited by choice.

Bianco was given ample time to determine how he feels about Kyoko with a direct interaction. He instead made surprise! a few observations and called it good. He limits his perspective because there is a possibilty of saying too much.

This post convinced me; I think the bolded parts are all correct and indicative of mafia. I guess the +- point system review is neat but not impossible to do as mafia.

VOTE: biancospino

[Kaito Momota]

Mafia have a roleblocker and a rolecop, so if we make people claim VT and then let them live we narrow down their actions and make it more likely to hit

[Kaito Momota]

I am suggesting that we at least exercise caution with claiming too early and then not having it go through

[Kaito Momota]

with caution

[Kaito Momota]

with caution

The problem is you could just be throwing out LAMIST language but since you don't actually have a plan to proceed with caution what purpose does your post serve?

Don't make them claim if we're not willing to kill them for claiming vt

[Kaito Momota]

That's my sidekick!

[Kaito Momota]

VOTE: Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu

[Kaito Momota]

Bianco didn't have tension and wasn't building up until after I voted for them.

[Kaito Momota]

I'm voting for Fuyuhiko because they did not interact with the Bianco wagon, which I believe makes them more likely to be mafia. They posted 714 but it was vague and they didn't place a vote. That and their reads in posts 475 and 490 are pretty off the mark.

[Kaito Momota]

Bianco didn't have tension and wasn't building up until after I voted for them.

I respectfully disagree

Can you point it out?

[Kaito Momota]

Whoever the last undead is took the strongest power they had available, but didn't take both powers.

[Kaito Momota]

Yes you misunderstood me. I'm saying the roleblocker is the strongest role the undead took and the last undead chose that role rather than their teammates.

[Kaito Momota]

I really don't think it is Kyoko. She was pushing Bianco yesterday, and today with two undead destroyed she is making another push which puts attention on her but follows with what she was thinking the previous day.

[Kaito Momota]

Kaito why do you think scum would take roleblocker specifically?

We were told what roles the undead took at the start of the game:

The undead team consists of a

Vampire

, a

Witch

, and a

Ghoul

.

[Kaito Momota]

We also know that town has 6 points of powers total, because the undead team gets 3 less points than town. Shuichi was 2 of those points for the town. The Undead team additionally knows the exact power roles town has.

[Kaito Momota]

I think we can assume Gimli, Wednesday, Fuyu, Kyoko and Kokichi are all town

Based on what?

[Kaito Momota]

During Night 0, the undead will be informed of which PRs the village has access to (but not how many of each role). They will then choose which roles they wish to purchase.

[Kaito Momota]

Kaito, can you give us some reads?

Town: Kyoko, Kokichi, Wednesday, Gimli, Furtive
Less sure: Penguinpower, Save the Dragons
Possible mafia: Fuyuhiko, Maki

[Kaito Momota]

Kaito, can you give us some reads?

Town: Kyoko, Kokichi, Wednesday, Gimli, Furtive
Less sure: Penguinpower, Save the Dragons
Possible mafia: Fuyuhiko, Maki

Can you explain why bianco's vote on Fuyuhiko looked partnered to you?

I don't see a single vote as precluding partners and think fuyuhiko could be mafia due to not really interacting with the Bianco wagon and not having much of an impact today

[Kaito Momota]

OK let's make this easy. I'm another Witch Hunter on the town side; last night I shot at not_mafia. The last mafia is going to be somebody who isn't taking strong stances today and maybe isn't too into the game. Maki and Fuyuhiko stand out.

I'll go ahead and vote for Maki roll since I think she has done an impressive amount of nothing today, she really just said "you guys are on the right track"

VOTE: Maki Harukawa

----

The undead would have seen "Witch Hunter, X" for the town roles (or x, y), so it is 50/50 to them whether town would have another one, unless there is a third one, in which case they'd know there was 3. Long story short Kokichi was right and voting to no eliminate today would have made things much harder for the mafia team. I think Kokichi probably isn't shooting themself in the foot here so they seem pretty obviously town to me, while those arguing against that play could have undead motivation.

[Kaito Momota]

OK

UNVOTE:

Then going back to my previous point, mafia would know that there are 3 witch hunters in the setup

[Kaito Momota]

OK

UNVOTE:

Then going back to my previous point, mafia would know that there are 3 witch hunters in the setup

or, ya know, other possible combinations...

If town rolled 3 witch hunters, mafia are simply told that town have "a witch hunter" and they know all the town roles are witch hunter

They know town has 6 points because they have 3

[Kaito Momota]

@Fuyuhiko

Vig someone tonight

@Maki/Kokichi

Spellshield Fuyuhiko.

[Kaito Momota]

I am Witch Hunter
I think tracking someone is better than killing rn

Vig proves your role

[Kaito Momota]

Yes I was Saihara

Wasn't a secret account or anything

Well played lad

[Kaito Momota]

I'm not sure whether mafia are supposed to be allowed to choose less points intentionally

[Kaito Momota]

The undead are told which village roles are in the game and have 24 hours to pick their own powers from their pool (no duplicates allowed). If they fail, the moderator will randomly assign them powers based on what village roles exist (i.e. no banshee if its strong kill can't be utilised).

If i were modding picking 3 points when they have to pick 4 would mean they've failed based on the wording of the rest of the setup and I'd be changing the rolecop to something else (with warning)