Open 869 | Fight for the Winter Court [Game Over!]

[catboi]

ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ:･ﾟ KAWAII WAVE!!:„ø¤º°¨ ¨°º¤KEEP THE KAWAII GOING ¸„ø¤º°¨ ¨°º¤øº LETS GO KAWAII !¤¤º°¨¨°º¤øº¤ø„¸¸ø¤º°¨„ ø¤º°¨¨°ºL-E-T-S GO!„ø¤º°¨ ¨°º¤LET'S GO KAWAII !¸„ø¤º°¨¨°º¤øºL-E-T-S GO!¤¤º°¨ ¨°¤øº¤ø„¸¸ø¤º°¨LET'S GO KAWAII :„ø¤º°¨¨°º¤KEEP THE WAVE GOING •ᴥ•¸„ø¤º

VOTE: Prism

[catboi]

that doesn't really work in gamse without RVS but I am too beholden to that opener to change it

[catboi]

do you think

there is great value

in turning the wall into a second gate?

What do you mean by that? put a top consensus townread there?

like

i feel like

the benefit to me locking in keep would be to force the mafia to move me or concede the keep

whereas the main benefit to me locking in the wall would be turning the wall into a second gate

so i was wondering if you thought there was great value in that since it seems you've been thinking about the setup et cetera

I was typing out an answer to this when I realized I don't actually need to give scum advice on how to play. If you think you'll be able to be reliably read as town and are comfortable with hammering, go for it.


I'm personally aiming to not stress especially hard over this game and am likely to make a choice based on entertainment value. We'll see how long that lasts.

[catboi]

Anyway, howdy everyone! I've just finished my finals season for the semester, so I'm pretty tired. TBD if I go out or hang out here or nap.

I've chewed on where to go for a bit, but tried to avoid thinking about it too much. I'm super excited to play with everyone, but I'm going to try to maintain a nice balance between tryhard and lighthearted fun. I mentioned to a few people before the game that this table will be either very fun or very "9 friends go to an abandoned cabin in a horror movie as mutual tensions grow" vibe, and I'd like to avoid the latter.

I'm pretty indifferent at the end of the day. I think Gate would be pretty fun to run-back, and puts scum in between a rock and a hard place. I think Wall would be a bad fit but I'd get to play longer. I think Keep is really suited to my playstyle, but I want to hang around and enjoy the game for awhile and that tends to resolve early. It's a good place to quarantine me, but I'm also hoping that enough people have strong scumgames here that I get to go elsewhere.

I generally oppose Coral's suggestion and am curious to hear more of the reasoning behind it.

go to the wall with me or ur a coward

[catboi]

This is way too fast for my brain atm LMAO

I know you're mostly joking but any game with me/you/skitter would be the biggest shitshow, but ~we'll see~

either you're scum and get your shot to humiliate me or we have a nightmare 3p that will ruin us both emotionally this sounds ideal to me

[catboi]

someone came out of retirement only to roll scum in this game, what a hilariously cruel fate

[catboi]

This is way too fast for my brain atm LMAO

I know you're mostly joking but any game with me/you/skitter would be the biggest shitshow, but ~we'll see~

either you're scum and get your shot to humiliate me or we have a nightmare 3p that will ruin us both emotionally this sounds ideal to me

You say this like it's a good thing!

for faker yeah

I just find the prospect amusing

[catboi]

someone came out of retirement only to roll scum in this game, what a hilariously cruel fate

how many players here came out of retirement for this game? i know i did, iirc Tammy as well?

I was retired for TWO WHOLE WEEKS

[catboi]

I don't think it's a good idea to put us in a game together cat. I know you know but I don't really want to shit talk atm sorry.

(´°ω°`) ok

[catboi]

someone came out of retirement only to roll scum in this game, what a hilariously cruel fate

Are you calling Faker scum or saying this whole playerlist is retirementers

that was a joke I thought up pregame but I left it intentionally ambiguous to see how people responded. I got some value out of it. Have one strong read.

[catboi]

someone came out of retirement only to roll scum in this game, what a hilariously cruel fate

how many players here came out of retirement for this game? i know i did, iirc Tammy as well?

I was retired for TWO WHOLE WEEKS

aha, so you were talking about yourself!

my work here is done, etc. etc.

[catboi]

tell us the read kitty. is it me? i would like it to be me.

Oh gosh Chara wants my attention (ღ˘⌣˘ღ)

I'm actually not planning to state any reads right now, for at least the first pat of the phase.


I think most players here are pretty capable of playing in a manner that appears conventionally town when we're following the prescribed formula of "making reads" so I'm going to eschew that entirely and engage solely in banter in order to gauge reactions.

[catboi]

Chara's new avi is too good

i'm glad you like it. i lost my whole library of avatars when my last laptop died, this was one of the few that was saved and i'm too lazy to remake any of them.

oh no that's sad they were so nice

[catboi]

I feel better about being able to read catboi correctly this time.

nya purr uwu (๑ↀᆺↀ๑)✧

Eh I would really be wary, we've talked a bit about reading cat previously but that Newbie was not a good representation of his scum game.

I'd love to hardpunish him after he N1'd me in PYP but IMO he's a good candidate to quarantine in the Keep. Don't put that nerd in the wall though he'll blow it.

I'm so town that it's cringe

[catboi]

tell us the read kitty. is it me? i would like it to be me.

Oh gosh Chara wants my attention (ღ˘⌣˘ღ)

I'm actually not planning to state any reads right now, for at least the first pat of the phase.


I think most players here are pretty capable of playing in a manner that appears conventionally town when we're following the prescribed formula of "making reads" so I'm going to eschew that entirely and engage solely in banter in order to gauge reactions.

thus making yourself very difficult to read!

i don't know how to play mafia without yelling about who is scum and who is town, kitty. i don't want to talk about the setup anymore. :<

Then the solution is obvious: simply don't play mafia! What have you been up to lately?

[catboi]

I'm actually not planning to state any reads right now, for at least the first pat of the phase

motherfucker i'm taking you out back

[catboi]

well, i an easy retail job, i've been medicated for a year now, and i'm enjoying my life. :> how are you catboi?

Glad to hear it! I'm doing fine myself, enjoying time off around the holidays, been gaming a little bit, was taking an enjoyable break from mafia (I was feeling fatigued) before I got yanked into this game by someone.

[catboi]

everyone stop posting for an hour to force Prism into a nap. if we all work together we can do it! hold hands and sing along!

hm good idea I'm going to go watch kaiji

[catboi]

I think isis on p2 is townie

Do tell.

[catboi]

no one asked me about my fanfiction.

I was too scared, I've heard disturbing things

[catboi]

Can scum swap someine into gate and then conftown that person?

Having literally done this I can authoritatively say the answer is yes.

[catboi]

Ok that was a really dense 7 pages
Most of my thoughts on various players are above, i also got some minor scumpings on catboi but not giving them much weight just yet

Ah as expected

[catboi]

I think isis on p2 is townie

Do tell.

I don't think the pov in 36 37 is likely to come from scum

(Or at least, if they had this thought, i don't think they would say it ...)

hm, okay

[catboi]

And I was swapped with a townplayer. The scum made it into all three minigames on day 1..

Right, for me personally I felt significant pressure to both spread out the distribution of the scum so we had a free swap of our choice, and I also had wanted to speed up the timetable so that town had less time to talk to one another.


Was wondering if it'd be possible given the group of people to have assignments decided in a democratic manner - was thinking that absent traditional gameplay mechanisms you can't really exert meaningful pressure on scum and if instead people were held to a vote on who to send where it'd provide data and some amount of discussion fodder. My approach the time I played this as town was pretty bad and I'd like to do something a little different.

[catboi]

Was wondering if it'd be possible given the group of people to have assignments decided in a democratic manner - was thinking that absent traditional gameplay mechanisms you can't really exert meaningful pressure on scum and if instead people were held to a vote on who to send where it'd provide data and some amount of discussion fodder. My approach the time I played this as town was pretty bad and I'd like to do something a little different.

I had a related thought of, after some discussion, voting on who chooses location first? Possibly with popcorning after. I think that method is likely to reduce the agency scum has over their location choices. Did you have a different approach in mind?

I was thinking straight majority assignment, not declaring who gets to choose first. Of course that might make some people unhappy to be sent to a place but someone's got to go.

And I was swapped with a townplayer. The scum made it into all three minigames on day 1..

Right, for me personally I felt significant pressure to both spread out the distribution of the scum so we had a free swap of our choice, and I also had wanted to speed up the timetable so that town had less time to talk to one another.


Was wondering if it'd be possible given the group of people to have assignments decided in a democratic manner - was thinking that absent traditional gameplay mechanisms you can't really exert meaningful pressure on scum and if instead people were held to a vote on who to send where it'd provide data and some amount of discussion fodder. My approach the time I played this as town was pretty bad and I'd like to do something a little different.

Yeah, I'm obviously not thrilled with my play or the overall town strategy in the first game. Y'all had an insanely unfair advantage in Ydrasse being on your team, though!

no trying to score brownie points from the mod!

[catboi]

The wall is my least desired minigame because I hate hate hate 3p elo.

that's the secret: it's all 3p elo

[catboi]

I don't have strong scumreads but I had a silly little theory that's probably wrong. Ta ta for now, good night~

[catboi]

Gate

catboi
skitter30
Isis

Wall

Faker
Chara
demona

Keep

absinthe
Tempest
Coral

I was going to do this with no explanation and I feel you've taken the wind out of my sails.

Actually eerily similar to the names I had written down on a whim although the thought process is almost certainly different.

[catboi]

I’m torn between seeing a free for all to see where people put themselves and if they can be read that way and trying to shape this in some way to try to make the next part easier if that can be done. It’d be super cool if we could manage to get scum in one room and go for the immediate win but I’m not entirely sure how likely it would be and it wouldn’t be very fun.

While I was trying to fall asleep last night, I was trying to decide which room would work best for me, and I thought about which of my weaknesses could affect each place, and I think I came out with having no real preference for where I go. I don’t really want to talk about my biggest weakness as I don’t want that to be used against me in the night decisions. Though if ffery is scum, she’s probably laughing in delight. Maybe catboi and faker too.

Anyway, I still need to read through the first pages.

hi tammy, do you have thoughts on the players in the game



(I realize this is hypocritical as I have been pointedly avoiding stating any reads and making myself harder to read. I don't care)

[catboi]

since you're here...

Gate
catboi
skitter30
Isis

This is, uh, interesting

And g'nite to all

define 'interesting'

[catboi]

I don't really get the thought process - why gate, why me/isis when isis was indicating she didnt want to be in the same game as me, why are you there

Like holistically i don't 'see' it

But i think later chara indicated it was a meme so

I mean, there could be a million reasons, yeah? maybe we're the leftovers, maybe chara thinks we're the scumteam, maybe chara thinks we're all town, sans context you can't really infer anything. I had, by chance, written down the exact same assignment for the Gate in my notepad but I don't really think that says anything about Chara's alignment.

And I don't see anywhere Chara has indicated the post was unserious?

[catboi]

Catboi I'm not going to call you a hypocrite but I'd like to see your player thoughts.

I have them but I'm not sure how much I even want to talk about them right now! I'm not feeling pressed about making myself readable as town in this phase, and given the nature of the setup I actually feel like not telegraphing my reads to scum before the swap. I'd probably be willing to discuss assignments, if you have questions for me I'll probably answer them, but I feel precisely 0 motivation to blurt things into the aether in order to prove my own towniness.

[catboi]

I'm getting breakfast first but absinthe, any thoughts on going into a game with me/cat? I think it'd be fun. Also surprised that you don't want to quarantine me, so thank you!

I'd be down to go me/Tammy/cat in Keep, less sure about Gate/Wall but it might work.

I don't really have a strong preference for where I go or who it's with but enough people have expressed wanting to go to the Keep (iirc, i'm not fact checking this) that I'd rather not take the spot of someone who wants to be there.

[catboi]

Ask me a question and don’t even respond to my very thoughtful response. NOT NICE

Sorry I just didn't actually have anything to say in response to that. Noted, moving on, etc, I'll wait until you're caught up.

[catboi]

sorry to take the wind out of your sails, kitty, i was interested to see what others would say if i just dropped that and left. how did you come to your own grouping at the Gate?

Was a dart throw guess for two towns at that moment where if I was wrong I'd be able to readjust, Isis probably reads me correctly if town, skitter I probably get right in the long run but maybe a guardians game is too short term and doesn't provide enough info. Worry would be skitter might not read me correctly but I'm not actually sure who I would say is most likely to find me as town.

I'm less confident in that configuration now anyway so it's not that relevant but it's where my head was at at the time.

[catboi]

skitter I probably get right in the long run

lol

Yes my reads are bad and I'm shit as town I know

Also no clue where the Isis thing comes from. Her experience with you is more limited IIRC and she's more likely to just townread you for NAI reasons as a result.

less experience just mainly fixated on JK9++ where she confidently had me as town and didn't get caught up in dumb paranoia like a lot of people do

[catboi]

skitter I probably get right in the long run but maybe a guardians game is too short term and doesn't provide enough info

Can u elaborate a bit more please? Why do you think i might not be solvable in this timeframe

because in early games I've misread you a lot (e.g. last time we played this setup together), when I have a clear arc of what you're doing in the game it gets easier (coalition). maybe that was because I had outside observer perspective and some degree of mechanical data, but at any rate this setup provides data as well. Of course this is all generalities from me that don't say much about what I feel about this game.

[catboi]

I guess I can see your perspective on the Isis thing but by that account I too really hope I get put in a game with someone who is inclined to take me at face value

I'm right here bby

[catboi]

I guess I can see your perspective on the Isis thing but by that account I too really hope I get put in a game with someone who is inclined to take me at face value

I'm right here bby

I mean I'm honestly down to go in a game together, I'm feeling good about my ability to keep any tilt in check so far even though things might get more intense Day 2. I do think in the long run we're most likely to be able to find each other at the end of the day and my worry is more if it's SvT.

Yeah sure let's dance

[catboi]

wouldn’t that also tie up one of their night movements making shenanigans less likely?

bucket

Posting psycho pass spoilers is +EV +MV

Makishima is the best villain ever. I identify with this so much:

[catboi]

I'd say me/Tempest/cat in a game would be nice, maybe me/cat/ffery as a backup.

I don't really think in terms of placing people trying to go 3/3 in one game, but the approaches aren't mutually exclusive and even getting 2/3 constrains the scum's choices greatly.

I'm basically indifferent to whoever is in as a 3rd but I like this method of selection

[catboi]

Chara would also be fun and a nice balance of likely to win but still challenging if scum, but if me/cat wind up being SvT we are going to wind up torturing it to death and it'll never want to play with us again

you act like if I was scum I wouldn't flee from you in the night phase

[catboi]

kitty/Tempest/absinthe is my early call. Isis could replace one.

Interesting.

[catboi]

You can win this whole setup if you just bet your whole wallet one person is scum and bet your whole wallet one person is town right(?)

not pre-swap because scum can just make the player you bet everything on being town an IC which nullifies that


if you get 2 correct townreads and 1 correct scumread you can win but math-wise that's not a high probability at all

[catboi]

Swapping the entire Gate/Keep people probably works too, but I'm selfish and basically don't want to deal with actually having to convince someone else that cat is scum if I reach that conclusion. From an outside perspective, I also just think it makes sense to quarantine the reigning Don Corleone there~

fair enough sure, I guess I don't object strongly to that reasoning

[catboi]

I've been loath to out my reads this game because I think showing your hand too much allows scum to exploit people's biases but I've been nursing a pocket scumread on Chara since 162 - just feels like a post scum makes - and haven't really had a moment from it that pinged towny and made me waver.

[catboi]

So want to get a headstart? I don't know if you've outed reads yet, but if there's anything you want me to look at in particular LMK

want to make sure people are okay with the arrangement first and no one storms in screaming I OBJECT!!! but other than that fine

[catboi]

So want to get a headstart? I don't know if you've outed reads yet, but if there's anything you want me to look at in particular LMK

want to make sure people are okay with the arrangement first and no one storms in screaming I OBJECT!!! but other than that fine

hmm what do you make

of chara and faker both seemingly not wanting me in the keep

without really stating why

I think they've both had plausible explanations but also that type of explanation isn't really particularly hard for scum to fake I don't think. That particular doesn't move the needle for me much.

[catboi]

So want to get a headstart? I don't know if you've outed reads yet, but if there's anything you want me to look at in particular LMK

want to make sure people are okay with the arrangement first and no one storms in screaming I OBJECT!!! but other than that fine

hmm what do you make

of chara and faker both seemingly not wanting me in the keep

without really stating why

I think they've both had plausible explanations but also that type of explanation isn't really particularly hard for scum to fake I don't think. That particular doesn't move the needle for me much.

do you think i would be less fun

than absinthe

for you and faker?

hm when you put it that way it sounds rude if I say yes!

I think I'm more

confident

reading absinthe than you but I don't think it'd be unfun and for me personally maybe even more interesting to see what would happen if that were the assignment.

[catboi]

I've been loath to out my reads this game because I think showing your hand too much allows scum to exploit people's biases but I've been nursing a pocket scumread on Chara since 162 - just feels like a post scum makes - and haven't really had a moment from it that pinged towny and made me waver.

i would probably make that post as scum, it's not committing to much at all and throws a little shade on Tempest's entrance.

Right it's less so the shade (because I think that is a read town could make) and moreso the lack of commitment

[catboi]

oh i do not think it’d be rude, like i understand that everyone excited to be playing with eachother and so forth and that i am not always the easiest to interact with

Nah you're fine, don't be hard on yourself. I think your writing style can be confusing if people aren't familiar with it but when acclimated to it you're not hard to understand, and the game is boring when everyone plays the same way anyway

[catboi]

It's more that you really seemed to want to be at the Keep, and it made sense for you to be there with people who can read you. I'm not sure about your hesitation on the Gate because similar problems crop up in Wall: If you're not clear in Gate but the clear can read you you're fine, if you're the clear you have to vote correctly. In Wall you will still have to vote correctly.

i did want to be at the keep i just deferred

??? my hesitation is that i would be confirmed

and we don’t really gain anything from that or at the very least i do not so i would prefer someone else to be confirmed

I think the impulse move is in a vacuum +scum but I actually find the explanation plausible here and the line of logic about not wanting to get confirmed isn't one that occurs to scum at first thought.


(I am having a hell of a time finding anyone actually scummy though)

[catboi]

tempest kind of feels town on page 21/22 and now I'm really lost and probably won't have strong feelings about the game until we get to day 2


I'm probably just going to send myself to the keep tonight in the next few hours, if anyone has an issue with that speak now or hold your peace

[catboi]

I'll probably have to reread Demona and Isis a few times.

*tongue clicking noise*

[catboi]

(I am having a hell of a time finding anyone actually scummy though)

...Seriously?

Yeah I dunno I'm weak

?

felt a bit like a comment scum-you makes - "oh yes I need to reread these people please note that I am busy Thinking and Solving this game because I have said I need to Do Things"

[catboi]

tempest kind of feels town on page 21/22 and now I'm really lost and probably won't have strong feelings about the game until we get to day 2


I'm probably just going to send myself to the keep tonight in the next few hours, if anyone has an issue with that speak now or hold your peace

i want to use all of our day 1 time, so i'd rather you didn't. no issue with you going there eventually.

*grumble grumble* yeah that makes sense I suppose, I am antsy to get to the next part to have some tangible info but prolonging this phase can only help in the long run

the three name picks were my scumreads, but with a null read on skitter they're not anything i want to put a lot of stock into, given two of them were her own scumreads and my own tendency to be more confident in my reads when someone else who is 'good at mafia' shares them. (meaning, i made the list and then went hm, this is probably influenced more than i'd like by skitter)

and i have a game-related reason for me/Isis being a group i'd really like.

What put absinthe there for you?

[catboi]

Top of 578 doesn't seem like something you'd believe. You like when games get stagnant as scum.

Stagnant yes but I also LOATHE when town are given extended time to interact because I feel there's a higher chance someone starts towntelling and other players find them and that's maybe the biggest concern - it actively doesn't matter how smooth you are as scum if players start genuinely towntelling - that would be my biggest fear in a game like this. I don't think the game is at risk of becoming apathetic, the format is too short for that to be likely to be an issue. The bigger concern would be people stalling out and not being mindful of the deadline but I don't think that's going to be a problem on Day 1, moreso on Day 2 where someone is likely to be paralyzed with indecision.

[catboi]

I like absinthe in Keep with catboi and Faker.

Why is that, exactly?

[catboi]

absinthe scum was a feeling i had, not much to it besides that.

I asked because you had a townlean earlier and even if the feeling was slight, as I'd expect any early game read to be, I was curious what prompted the shift

[catboi]

reread that part of my ISO, the townlean wasn't genuine.

that is the price I pay for doing a search to try to dig up something to talk about

[catboi]

If I'm wrong on my other reads then I can turn the eye back to the tiger but for now if she's with me on most things then hell yeah sister. cat is somewhat similar but there's a bit more history, and him being so acquiescent to going in the same game is plausibly a called bluff.

I was the one who suggested going to the same game in the first place!

[catboi]

I was really considering saving this for Day 2 after swaps happened, but since we're on the topic~

I want to relax and not stress myself this game, looking for a partner with low expectations

I've already settled for you once, might as well do it again.

I'm not a very demanding player in any case.

I'm glad the game started so I can finally say: LMAO I'm never dancing with you

FTR cat my plan has been to treat every gent equally without much regard for meta/history, it was the preemptive complete rule-out that I scumread. There is a lot of incentive to that pairing as town.

but also a gigantic negative and lmao @ the actual likely outcome.

For personal preference I find the prospect of pairing with someone I'm more familiar with

boring

, although in-game reads actually takes higher priority.

But of course, the answer to "Do I want to give the person who reads me incorrectly in literally every single game the power to instantly vig me at any point in time" is a resounding hell no.

Right, that's a consideration but it's been some time since then and I have relatively more faith in your ability to read me now and also that you wouldn't impulsively make a decision on a vote you know is critical. (also, you read me correctly in the very game you're quoting!)

...as I was writing this I was reminded of you spectating datisi's cafe and realized I probably SHOULDN'T have that confidence level, but I think it'd be fun, and if you mishammered me I would get to mock you endlessly over it, which seems like a win/win for me. If you're scum and trying to put one over on me I hopefully figure it out before then but right now I don't think you'd target the keep if that was your plan.

[catboi]

If you're scum and trying to put one over on me I hopefully figure it out before then but right now I don't think you'd target the keep if that was your plan.

how likely do you think it is that scum!faker would have actually been targeting the keep rather than counting on me locking in the keep and you all going elsewhere?

I don't really think he would have been anticipating that you would make a particular move or playing around that given everyone had seemingly agreed to take it slow. At any rate, the keep is difficult to win as scum and likely not playing to his strengths by going there. This is all tentative though.

[catboi]

What are my strengths here, exactly? You sure you're not just taking my word for it?

to my mind anyway you'd rather hardpush someone over trying to make yourself look like the towniest town because there's the possibility people get paranoid and don't trust you and then you're hosed

[catboi]

What are my strengths here, exactly? You sure you're not just taking my word for it?

to my mind anyway you'd rather hardpush someone over trying to make yourself look like the towniest town because there's the possibility people get paranoid and don't trust you and then you're hosed

I don't think this is true. I don't really excel at forcing through specific votes, especially lategame: Town players as individuals are too random. There's a reason I forced through Todoroki quickly in D&C. I'm much better at steering a collective, and I'm very good at becoming a universal townread. In that respect, Keep is very well-suited for my scumplay.

The drawbacks of Keep are twofold: 1) Players who know me, like those in this table, can simply make me the voter, and

then

I'm hosed and 2) I flip first most of the time, when I'm better utilized as an excellent clean up hitter with the potential to solo carry the longer the game goes and the more comfortable I get.

I used to prefer flipping first back in my EM days, and haven't gotten a chance to really show off some of that style on MS, but this has been a stylistic adaptation. I didn't have to put a lot of faith in my partners for them to be able to survive 5 minutes if I handed them the game on a silver platter, but that's not true on MS. Almost all of my games are me ultra-town solocarrying.

idfk then i'm probably talking out my ass and didn't think that post through

[catboi]

idfk then i'm probably talking out my ass and didn't think that post through

Dayvig: catboi

[catboi]

The gamestate is annoying too. Perhaps it's just a function of this setup, and I just don't get that, but it just feels like we're all just sitting on our hands talking about the setup and I don't get it. Yes, I understand that people want to keep scum in the dark blah blah blah, but save for a few things, I just don't get that. Because to me, once we're all in 3p things get harder. What makes 3p so fucking hard is that scum and town are behaving in similar ways, but in a normal game there's a whole game's worth of game to go off of. But here there's nothing, just what we have today where people are just focusing on the setup or not saying anything much because they don't need to prove themselves town today or because they don't want scum to know their thoughts, which well whatever but I kinda think that sucks. Maybe I'll feel differently after I've played this setup, but it makes today annoying and I think it will make tomorrow even harder.

I want to address this because I feel like 733 gets at the root of this - in that game as scum, my team was very eager to feed into the town's confirmation bias in order to set things up for Day 2. We didn't start the attack on the player we sent to the keep but I think we fueled the fire knowing it would benefit us. To that end I've been really cautious about not trying to make hasty conclusions.

Relatedly, I thought your entrance to the game was scummy because you seemed to be awkwardly trying to fit in whilst making comments that were mostly not relevant to fguring out people's alignments, but rather than presenting it as an explicit opinion I just questioned you on it and decided to back off. You were getting enough heat from elsewhere and I saw no need to pile on. I think in the time since you've improved which makes me feel like I was right to leave you to your own devices

In a world where you're town I think it's

probable

scum opted to feed into that narrative against you because scum need scapegoats in this setup and if they saw someone struggling to integrate themselves into the game they would very likely pounce on that - that's what I would do, at any rate.

But also now at this point I am in fact struggling to identify scum because most people feel towny to me. I've sort of been trying to shift to a more questioning play mode rather than being a purely passive spectator now but I don't have a lot of confidence in most reads right now which would make them pretty useless to talk about. I still feel like info is being generated from conversations

I also hate feeling like I'm speaking into a void. My thoughts and reads might not be great thoughts and reads, but I have had them, and save for a small bit here and there, they've gone mostly ignored. Like, we don't have to be online at the same time to interact, I've been open with what I'm thinking as I'm going along, and I'd welcome any comment on my reads/thoughts, disagreements, agreements, anything. I don't like feeling alone in a game. Maybe the reason for that is that everyone is deciding not to actually give thoughts today because it'd be better tomorrow and that's whatever.

I have seen you making guesses at scum I just...don't have a ton to add to that, sorry. I look at your points and say "hm could be" but I don't think it's a certainty or anything like that.

[catboi]

i'm going to conclude kitty is scum regardless of what grouping he ends up in, just watch.

You're jinxing me to be the IC just watch

[catboi]

I intend to lock in the Keep unless catboi objects.

From your perspective, do you mind walking me through why that makes sense to you as town one more time?

Is this to me? There's a much better chance I actually help town in the Keep than in the other two minigames given the current lay of the land. We've got about 2 days left so not much time for the lay of the land to shift.

I don't think catboi has expressed an actual opinion about me going to the keep, which is why I'm still holding off.

I'm fine with it FTR

I'm here but not remotely caught up given the sheer mass of pages since I last posted

[catboi]

It's probably going to take me a while to catch up so if anyone has any questions for me just ask now so I can answer ASAP

[catboi]

I decided to skim and realized I'm really bored with this game

[catboi]

Relatedly, I thought your entrance to the game was scummy because you seemed to be awkwardly trying to fit in whilst making comments that were mostly not relevant to fguring out people's alignments, but rather than presenting it as an explicit opinion I just questioned you on it and decided to back off. You were getting enough heat from elsewhere and I saw no need to pile on. I think in the time since you've improved which makes me feel like I was right to leave you to your own devices

In a world where you're town I think it's probable scum opted to feed into that narrative against you because scum need scapegoats in this setup and if they saw someone struggling to integrate themselves into the game they would very likely pounce on that - that's what I would do, at any rate.

This is fair. And I never said or meant to imply that people were supposed to town read me. I'm very well aware of my awkward girl energy and that people don't get that I often post things that simply just amuse me, don't outwardly appear to be solving even if I'm gaining base impressions for myself, and don't outwardly start solving until I'm ready to do so. A lot of that gets mitigated if I get here at the start of the game as it just gets swept in with beginning of the game whereas if I step in later it sticks out a bit more, especially to people who don't know me. Even sometimes for people who do know me.

Would you really pounce though? I mean I've definitely seen you pounce, but I've also seen you not pounce when it works to your advantage not to do so. And in a world where scum you saw town me struggling day one but knowing that I'm typically able to turn suspicion on me around, would you? Granted, I'm not the player that I used to be, so it's not as likely as it used to be that I'd shake off suspicion and there's no guarantee that people would change their mind, but wouldn't you come out looking better by leaving me alone?

I wasn't talking about

me

in that post I was positing a vague hypothesis that scum were pushing you. I don't know what I'd do around you. The last time I tried to push you as scum for funsies you nearly bit my head off and I wouldn't be eager to repeat that. But it's not really relevant I'm not trying to sell you on me being town just guessing where scum can be found

[catboi]

cat is probably regretting his choices right about now and hoping someone else locks Keep or gives him an out

VOTE: Keep

[catboi]

Yeah cat is definitely a player I'd rather have in the Keep, I'm selfish and trust no one but myself to avoid getting snowed by that motherfucker. It's one thing if I'm there in endgame with him but it's another if I exit early and leave him unsupervised.

This is ??? when you've commented on me being reserved and now outright unmotivated, like do you think I expect to snow people playing like this?

[catboi]

okay I read stuff I'm not sure if I've actually processed it but I'm current with the game again

[catboi]

Yeah cat is definitely a player I'd rather have in the Keep, I'm selfish and trust no one but myself to avoid getting snowed by that motherfucker. It's one thing if I'm there in endgame with him but it's another if I exit early and leave him unsupervised.

This is ??? when you've commented on me being reserved and now outright unmotivated, like do you think I expect to snow people playing like this?

Yeah, this is definitely the only way you know how to play as scum for sure.

That's not what I'm saying.

If you think I could be playing this way as scum, I don't really object, my motivation has undoubtedly dipped, and in my most recent game I similarly had difficulty getting engaged. I could quibble over the fact I'm prone to losing motivation as either alignment but that's not really important for me right now.


What's bizarre is the insistence that I'm scary and slippery and too dangerous to let go anywhere else but also deflated and playing like a chump. It can't be both things.

[catboi]

It feels to me like you placed a bad bet and are not eager to pay the price. We have time to fix it if I am wrong, but I don't think that it is irrational of me to not let you slip the way you did in PYP. While it is possible that you're scum flopping and not actually demotivated, I'm also not suggesting that being demotivated is strictly your choice as scum.

I feel like I'm losing my view of what you're actually arguing but it's also not really important to me as of right now, as I said

[catboi]

What is important to you right now?

getting to the next phase and seeing what happens. If I weren't going to the keep I'd be more concerned but there it's not actually necessary to convince you I'm town. As it is I feel like I'm mentally roadblocked and won't be able to actually get any idea of who's scum until I have some amount of mechanical info.

[catboi]

I don't see a ton of value in preflipping in general, but especially before swaps this is just an exercise in convolution IMO.

I think giving scum a roadmap of who to swap is a bad idea and so discussion expectations around what happens seems outright counterproductive

[catboi]

I like catboi but I feel like catboi doesn't really like me

:< I don't

dis

like you

[catboi]

I like catboi but I feel like catboi doesn't really like me

:< I don't

dis

like you

Whoa I'm spot on

more relieving than not I guess

I just feel like I don't really know you that well tbh

[catboi]

meh I don't think faker is scum trying to ice me out or whatever I just think his view of me is biased by my recent games to forget i can also get disinterested like this as town, e.g. mini normal 2181. No one stands out as super obviously scum to me, everyone has had some moments that felt towny to me, I don't have leads. The quantity of posts is less an exciting mystery to sift through and more of a chore.

[catboi]

here's to data

[catboi]

Actual sick things sending absinthe away

[catboi]

Actual sick things sending absinthe away

Did you have a hard scumread on her?

I also thought you'd be pretty excited to see skitter here given your extensive meta during Slaughter Hour.

The opposite, I'd been increasingly believing she was town.

[catboi]

The only thing giving me pause is the configuration at the gate but I have had few moments that really led me to believe coral was town

[catboi]

On a similar note my confidence in Faker in the first phase was mainly done to see how scum would react to it, my anticipation was that in a world where Faker truly is town, scum would basically never let us stay together because I'd all but promised a vote there.


Additionally it makes more or less perfect sense in a world where skitter is town for scum to move her here because she's highly unlikely to vote for me.

[catboi]

Isis is scum at... i want to say 80% confidence, which for me is very high. this is the outcome i expected if demona wasn't swapped out, though that doesn't mean i'm any more prepared for the next phase.

Elaborate for me?

[catboi]

tbh i had twinges of demona/faker in terms of how they spoke about one another but it was one world of many

[catboi]

On a similar note my confidence in Faker in the first phase was mainly done to see how scum would react to it, my anticipation was that in a world where Faker truly is town, scum would basically never let us stay together because

I'd all but promised a vote there.

FWIW this was not my impression

meh

I don't think faker is scum trying to ice me out

or whatever I just think his view of me is biased by my recent games to forget i can also get disinterested like this as town, e.g. mini normal 2181. No one stands out as super obviously scum to me, everyone has had some moments that felt towny to me, I don't have leads. The quantity of posts is less an exciting mystery to sift through and more of a chore.

Not super explicit, but. I was pretty content to shoot down doubts expressed toward you.

[catboi]

30 posts into coral's ISO and I'm not really seeing anything town

[catboi]

1258 is very specific to a behavior and is not at all a read of me, and you were very explicit about not having any reads you felt strongly about.

I mean, whatever, I meant for it to look that way

1359 also isn't really true. It's about who town has to pick between. skitter is probably more afraid of my scumplay than any other player at the table. I'm not good at reading her and have got it reversed basically every time.

I don't follow. Skitter had explicitly stated a scumread on me at multiple points in the previous phase. I'm speaking from the perspective of knowing I am town (obviously).

skitter swapping to keep as scum with absinthe is borderline nonsensical in my eyes unless you think they did it hoping people level themselves, but it'd be probably outright -EV in both instances. skitter being scum with coral also feels fairly unlikely. She's not averse to extended theater with teammates but typically she'd need rapport with the teammate and the way the back and forth with coral went didn't feel s/s

[catboi]

i think she's been playing defensively since we started. it'd be the easiest win in a minigame for her to miselim me, though i do think her desire to go where i go is also a genuine "i want to play with Chara" feeling and not a ploy, just one that happens to also work out with her goals.

i was really hoping for this outcome because i think if Isis and i

are

both town we can find each other, even if demona if scum is being exceedingly town to me and Isis both. unfortunately the game has in a way just started.

i got sidetracked but my main reasoning is this is an ideal situation for scum Isis. i started considering it seriously in 236, it feels like she's been playing to me to make me easier to handle. (and that Coral read is very... i don't know, obvious?)
when i said i didn't want to be in a minigame with her and i just hoped she was town, she brought up the time i was rightly suspicious of her as scum. a way to make me more confident i can read her.

i haven't reread with this in mind re: the timing of demona's locking in Wall.

"defensive" wouldn't really be a word that comes to mind to describe Isis's play although I see your point about 236 I guess, will review it at some point. Had lingering suspicion of Isis for gut reasons but with the clarity of distributions things are coming into focus more so not as sure.

[catboi]

30 posts into coral's ISO and I'm not really seeing anything town

I don't disagree but how literal is this?

what

[catboi]

I think absinthe's whole spiel about being okay with going to the keep and being able to control her own destiny there was very town and strongly favor her being town over coral

[catboi]

I like absinthe in Keep with catboi and Faker.

Why is that, exactly?

I like Faker's plan for it, mostly. I'm currently leaning towards feeling trusting of Faker (rookie mistake), and at the same time not feeling town on absinthe. So that + Faker wanting to pair up + absinthe feeling a little resistant towards accepting that arrangement = me wanting to voice support of it.

[catboi]

I don't follow. Skitter had explicitly stated a scumread on me at multiple points in the previous phase. I'm speaking from the perspective of knowing I am town (obviously).

skitter swapping to keep as scum with absinthe is borderline nonsensical in my eyes unless you think they did it hoping people level themselves, but it'd be probably outright -EV in both instances. skitter being scum with coral also feels fairly unlikely. She's not averse to extended theater with teammates but typically she'd need rapport with the teammate and the way the back and forth with coral went didn't feel s/s

So step one of this setup as scum is that in the Keep, scum has to be voted as town. This means they have to convince at a player they are town, and do so before another player finds the other town player as town. I hope this helps!

who's town with you here

[catboi]

You know I don't have an answer to this.

LMAO

[catboi]

I think absinthe's whole spiel about being okay with going to the keep and being able to control her own destiny there was very town and strongly favor her being town over coral

Strongly disagree. I don't think it made sense to go to the Keep with me under those circumstances, and she hit the wrong notes with me literally from start to finish yesterday.

Start was very awkward/wonky and she went full deer in the headlights when I got started. She similarly got caught off when the switchup to the narrative you're describing had essentially no effect.

So Coral is town, then?

[catboi]

going through coral's iso i'm about ready to hit send on coral scum, conversation seems to be mostly mechanical but I can't really find the underlying thread of thought there at all that shows me there's a real town thought process going on.


faker/coral looks decently probable at a skim, some light jabs in the early game that recede into nothing and generally being held at arm's length

[catboi]

not a lot of what i say tends to make sense to you, skitter.
what doesn't make sense about it?

I don't get why you're excited to go to keep with scum isis

you mean Wall, i assume.

because i thought she was scum before, and i thought the best chance of me confirming that is having demona here with us, and scum didn't end up messing with the configuration with swaps. so i get to try and do the thing i've been hoping to do all game, which is win a minigame under my own power.
and in the scenario where we're both wrong on demona i believe we can figure it out, so to me it's a win/win. i don't think that's where we are though.

dunno if recency bias but this does seem town to me

[catboi]

...Do you mind walking me through why I'm in the Keep as scum, along with why I swap out someone that I am 100% sure I can snow in absinthe?

in this game keep is the most difficult location to play as scum and there's a decent likelihood you have a higher confidence level than anyone else in pulling it off and winning here

absinthe had expressed the possibility of voting for me and she is much more valuable as a potential mis-elim elsewhere than staying here if that's the case

[catboi]

Should also be pretty obvious why my interactions are thin with Coral, and you know I am extremely meticulous in my interactions as scum. I might issue more/less for WIFOM, but the idea that you think I'd just, like, forget to talk to my partner(s) is comical.

okay sure thing

[catboi]

what are you even trying to achieve by debating me, faker?

[catboi]

what are you even trying to achieve by debating me, faker?

trying to get u 2 throw LMAO

switch to jokey tone over serious feels like masking that u don't have a real answer

[catboi]

I mean, again, it feels like you are more interested in logically deconstructing my arguments in a pedantic fashion but the skepticism would imply a scumlean, in which case I am basically irrelevant and arguing with me is literally pointless, but if I'm town who is throwing with trash reads, you need to be persuading me, which you are not even really trying to do, so I'm left wondering what your goal is

[catboi]

is this how it usually is with you two?

yes

[catboi]

If you see your arguments getting logically deconstructed but don't think that's persuasion, that's on you bud.

I also don't really have to when I have a vote. As town you're not going to throw 3 hours into daystart, you're going to wait.

I mean, yes you're failing to convince me you're town. The approach seems ore designed to beat me down/discredit me. None of what you're saying really makes me think you're town. I'm not voting right away, I want people to check in first, but I am likely to vote soon.

[catboi]

Chara was trying consistently to pocket people

cite me some examples?

I think arguing people have been pockety is a difficultaccusation to prove because there are lots of behaviors in a typical game that can be made to feel that way, although it's not impossible to show.

[catboi]

I prefer to be the voter, especially with what I've seen on the table.

Let me be clear: I will get you if you are scum, and I will make sure you lose the game as a bonus.

I have 0 intimidation level from this

[catboi]

I think you're trying to mimic the read in Undertale 1, and I will

break you

gently guide you into the softness of night if so.

what is my angle supposed to be here as scum??

[catboi]

I prefer to be the voter, especially with what I've seen on the table.

Let me be clear: I will get you if you are scum, and I will make sure you lose the game as a bonus.

Spare me the bravado. If you think I'm scum the game is as simple as voting skitter, which I have already made clear I want to do. That is a perfectly acceptable outcome to me. My concern level is 0. If you think I'm scum, go ahead, pre-flip me, start partner hunting, it's all going to be meaningless very very soon. If I'm scum here, I've already lost, why the worry?

cat, if you're town go read Miss List for a second instead of whatever you're doing. It has me bluffing my way to a win in a similarly styled game in 3-way.

I don't want to say no because that would come off as dickish, but I would be really surprised if I get anything out of this

[catboi]

- i don't follow why cat thinks i don't swap there

because I think scum-you wins a 1v1 with coral pretty handily, if you're both scum you don't have any options I guess but then your Day 1 is kind of silly

[catboi]

cat, if you're town go read Miss List for a second instead of whatever you're doing. It has me bluffing my way to a win in a similarly styled game in 3-way.

Mechanically these setups are different imo, but your play looks more or less similar, so.

[catboi]

I have to go run errands, will be back later. still currently believe Coral is far more likely to be scum at the gate, will direct my attention to the Wall later when I have time

[catboi]

I also think skitter agrees she should not be the voter so YEET

I mean so long as:
1. You two are v confident you can get it right
2. Otherwise you'lll vote me

Basically i think we're most likelu to get keep right, if, in this order:
1. Catboi/prism sort each other out
2. They vote me
3. I have to vote

Perspective-wise this makes no sense? One of us has to be scum from your POV, by necessity us "sorting each other out" would require one of us correctly identifying you as town.

[catboi]

My only current thought on solve order is being tempted to want to do the Gate first. We lose fewer town voices due to Tempest staying, and at this current time I think my voice will mostly be used to run around in circles chanting about how scum are Chara/catboi and why. Which I don't really need to be here for, you all can just promise to periodically pretend that I've entered the thread and said something to that effect.

That could obviously change, I might change my mind at some point on who I think is scum and actually be doing a useful amount of active sorting. But it's where I imagine this heading based on current trajectory.

The other benefit is that it confirms one of the swappers as scum. While it doesn't solve the Keep immediately, I think it is useful information for helping to support a solve there, and to give people a narrower field of possibilities for what the scumteam was trying to accomplish with the swap. Leaning heavily myself towards it being a S/T swap due to a 0-1-2, obviously.

lol yes don't try to make a case or anything, heaven forbid you have to cite sources

[catboi]

Does Tempest not leave after the Gate is solved? That's a huge improvement over the original setup.

I was hilariously wrong about Coral yesterday. And I don't plan to vote anytime soon.

Faker -- I believe you know in your bones that me getting and keeping a townread on you is not a slam dunk

catboi -- you wouldn't move me out of the keep two games straight would you?

skitter -- I'm trying to decide which makes more sense. That you were moved out of the Gate because of your alignment or because of your reads.

structurally this post kind of sets me on edge. not doing anything with it just making the observation.

That question in and of itself seems kind of silly? Like, yeah, I'd double down if I think I could get away with it/it was the best move. I have no fucking clue what I'm doing here if I'm scum and chose to remove the person most likely to vote for me to leave myself with two of the people

least

likely to vote for me, as well as one who I'd be most concerned with outshining me. That just seems to be terrible play on its face, which shouldn't be hard from your pov.

[catboi]

At the Keep, Nutcracker Soldiers must vote on one player. If that player is a Nutcracker Soldier, the Nutcracker Soldiers win; otherwise, the Minions of Summer win.

Isnt keep just one townie has to vote on the other town?

Yes, correct, which is why I don't really get the statements about us having to 'sort each other out' correctly like we could both theoretically be town, from your perspective one of us is scum and so in basically all worlds you want the townie between us to recognize you as town.

[catboi]

Like, look at the timestamps around that. Posts are flying through faster than anyone could respond to everything. What makes him pick that post out to respond to, just to say nearly nothing?

because the specific adjective being attributed to Isis's play did not match my own perception of her - she seemed overall to be the

opposite

of defensive, did not seem to feel threatened by statements others were making or care about optics at all

[catboi]

I already said I'm not voting until at least Day 5 and have repeatedly said Tempest should choose. It's a figure of speech.

from an outside perspective tempest shouldn't be choosing who votes anyway, she should be choosing who

gets voted

as it's higher value for her to correctly identify a town in the keep

[catboi]

Right >.>
Ok yeah then i want one of u two to vote me

I

can you...explain what you were thinking there and why that is not a perspective slip?

[catboi]

lol yes don't try to make a case or anything, heaven forbid you have to cite sources

I'm obviously going to make a case, what's the point of this? I meant that after I do, the case will have been made, and my townflip is probably not

that

much less of support for the case than me continuing to post about it. At least compared to other minigames flipping, where we lose 2 town voices, who may also be more undecided.

I'd still rather be alive than dead, but my point is that the loss of me is probably not such a big hit to town win%, and the loss of the towns in the other minigames are almost certainly greater.

post seemed to imply you weren't going to, but okay then

[catboi]

1367 is less affecting to me because I think he probably wouldn't go that route today if he didn't believe that he did correctly plant the seeds for it. He just didn't plant them very well, but I don't really think he would try to bluff a progression that he knew he didn't have, especially against you. I understand the issues you have with it, though.

A note also that if he does end up voting early, it would likely be to try to end the game early and take down the voices of skitter and Faker with him. I don't think it's necessary to quickhammer yourself in that event, skitter. He would only do that with the goal of getting two town who are good at solving out of the game, and there's no rush, since we can simply move forward with that game effectively prefilled.

lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

[catboi]

Scum-you moving me out of the keep doesn't make sense unless you weren't as sure I'd vote you as you've indicated. Scum-Faker moving me out of the keep after so much effort to get me into the keep doesn't make sense, period but would be hilarious if true. Scum-skitter would probably like to not go up against Tammy in the Gate. Maybe she sees the keep as an easier win given how minigames shaped up.

So you're leaning toward town-Faker right now?

[catboi]

1367 is less affecting to me because I think he probably wouldn't go that route today if he didn't believe that he did correctly plant the seeds for it. He just didn't plant them very well, but I don't really think he would try to bluff a progression that he knew he didn't have, especially against you. I understand the issues you have with it, though.

A note also that if he does end up voting early, it would likely be to try to end the game early and take down the voices of skitter and Faker with him. I don't think it's necessary to quickhammer yourself in that event, skitter. He would only do that with the goal of getting two town who are good at solving out of the game, and there's no rush, since we can simply move forward with that game effectively prefilled.

lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

okay so like, for the record

me throwing down a vote as scum would be outright throwing or possibly gambiting that the other town in keep would panic (very unlikely!)

but coral is arguing that me doing so would make it unnecessary to actually resolve the keep and get my flip and that it's sooo much more valuable to treat the other voices here as confirmed town

and from where I'm standing anyway, this doesn't really make sense for town at all - knowing the alignments of the keep players should be incredibly important to solving the rest of the game

but instead coral wants to be resolved first


and that, to me, only really makes sense if coral is someone who knows the flips in the keeo are going to make the game significantly harder for her to win. it makes basically no sense for town to say this.

[catboi]

Scum-you moving me out of the keep doesn't make sense unless you weren't as sure I'd vote you as you've indicated. Scum-Faker moving me out of the keep after so much effort to get me into the keep doesn't make sense, period but would be hilarious if true. Scum-skitter would probably like to not go up against Tammy in the Gate. Maybe she sees the keep as an easier win given how minigames shaped up.

So you're leaning toward town-Faker right now?

I'm concerned about how Faker's gone full-in on a scumread of me. My read went a little south by the end of day 1, mostly because of how they seemed to be taking full credit for pushing me into the keep. My first post exists, and aside from angsting over picking correctly between the two of you, nothing suggested me in another minigame looked like a good thing for town.

Understood, I guess. Do you have thoughts on the Wall? that game feels the trickiest to me right now.

[catboi]

I don't think anyone should be voting any time soon. I don't think it would in any way be pro-town to do so. I don't think you would vote soon as town, even though you said you would.

hahahahaha

What

do

you believe my approach is here as town? I favor a faster resolution because I have all the agency to decide this minigame in my own hands, getting the flips and knowing alignments is valuable, and being indcisive and taking too long is incredibly anti-town. I don't need a week to decide between two players.

[catboi]

but coral is arguing that me doing so would make it unnecessary to actually resolve the keep and get my flip and that it's sooo much more valuable to treat the other voices here as confirmed town

Coral seems to think thay both town need to vote town to win keep
(Which is wrong and is what prompted my question)
I think her post makes more sense in context

no, she literally is arguing that we should not resolve the keep if I vote and spend days yakking it up while treating me as scum which is beyond nonsensical but provides a ton of benefit to her if she knows she's about to eat shit when I flip

[catboi]

I'm increasingly concerned by demona

was going to say on an iso I don't really see her trying to discern alignments and the strongest reason people have for townreading her is she says she's town, which, eh. Still going through it though.

[catboi]

You voting resolves keep tho, no?

It takes 2 votes and the implication is whoever it's on should not self-hammer and treat it like I'm trying to cut off ddiscussion as scum while solving other games. I don't really take issue with the notion of giving final reads but the idea I make a play like that as scum is ludicrous and again mostly seems to be coming from someone who knows my flip reflects incredibly poorly on them

[catboi]

sigh kinda feel like this possibly an advantageous thing

but one of skitter/catboi have to be town so i am here et cetera

weird that catboi also states that the only thing i am being townread for is me saying i am town when that simply isn’t true

but i am here-ish and i kinda just feel like for whichever of you is town that that feeling is mostly because i haven’t been able to be as present today as i sometimes am even when posting

not taking notes so could be easily wrong but that was my impression

I'm not going to say I'm confident on your game but I do see you being scum as a possibility here (and entirely recognize that my timing in stating such might seem suspicious, but am not really concerned with that at all for obvious reasons)

[catboi]

Right that's what i'm confused abt: is it just one vote (i.e. one town has to vote town and that's it), or to complete the game is it technically two?

it's two votes, doesn't end until a majority is reached

[catboi]

i guess i don’t expect town!you to view my being mafia as an impossibility or anything but i guess this doesn’t really feel like you trying to sort me rather than just say ‘oh yes i am also suspicious of demona’ and saying the thing that isis has been saying the ‘oh the only towny thing about demona is she said she was town’ when coral and others laid out more than that

and!! at the time coral did so isis agreed

so it is like

..!

but also been resigned to phone posting and i was just mostly reading the game today

so, shrug

Hum, minly because it's not really an effort to interact with you, I am mainly observing and trying to draw conclusions rather than making direct qusetions etc. sometimes I get reads wrong and correct them via interaction but I sort of need to start outside and draw a conclusion there before I come in talking about things because if I don't have an angle dialogue usually isn't going to do a whole lot. If you're town I will get there eventually. I haven't reread either of the other players at the Wall still.

Will keep an eye out for the isis posts you're talking about.

[catboi]

I don't think anyone should be voting any time soon. I don't think it would in any way be pro-town to do so. I don't think you would vote soon as town, even though you said you would.

hahahahaha

What

do

you believe my approach is here as town? I favor a faster resolution because I have all the agency to decide this minigame in my own hands, getting the flips and knowing alignments is valuable, and being indcisive and taking too long is incredibly anti-town. I don't need a week to decide between two players.

Not be entirely unreasonable, I suppose? This all just feels like bluster to me. I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to take your time here.

what is "unreasonable" about me voting first???

[catboi]

Wanting to vote first is bordering on reasonable, although still suboptimal and a strange approach. Voting in the next 24 hours or so when you have a lot of threads in the other minigames that you are ostensibly still looking to resolve would be unreasonable.

If you are that convinced skitter is town, a more reasonable approach would be trying to work with her to solve rather than just throwing away the time you have for a chance at proving yourself right. I just cannot reconcile that approach with you being town. It doesn't fit.

What are you even talking about?

I haven't voted yet and my intention is to give people time to state reads etc but I am working to resolve my view of the other games and want to so swiftly. My priority #1 is voting for who I think is correct because this is the one game where I have actual agency and so of course I want to prove myself right, why wouldn't I?

so why the panic?

[catboi]

I'm not voting right away, I want people to check in first, but I am likely to vote soon.

If you think I'm scum, go ahead, pre-flip me, start partner hunting, it's all going to be meaningless very very soon.

My point is that these are bluster. I'm not panicked and I'm not sure what gives you that impression. I just think you're scum who is flailing a bit, and your play doesn't make sense from town.

lol okay, egg will be on your face

[catboi]

I'm going to stay out of your way for the moment but I'm incredibly annoyed that you're choosing to play the minigame this way.

what's annoying about it exactly

[catboi]

Would you like to explain the differences between those quotes and the sentiment you're expressing now, instead of just lolcatting? Why did you react so strongly to me saying that you wanted to vote soon if that was in fact exactly what you said earlier?

because you very clearly did not want me to flip and your arguments for me being scum are fucking terrible

[catboi]

I'm skeptical that it is even remotely helpful if you're town, and it certainly isn't helping you if you're mafia.

I don't need to explain what's annoying. You don't need to ask.

Have your time in the sun but I'm washing my hands of it for now, as promised I'll stay out of your way for now.

if I'm scum why do you even care, I'm not beholden to making you not feel annoyed, obviously. I'm town though and you've all but declared me lockscum so I don't actually have reason to care if I'm annoying you, I'm not begging for you to townread me because I literally do not need it

cry more

[catboi]

981 seems very inrange for anyone because it's meta pattern recognition. The others are +town content I think.

I really townread demona the most because demona's early play advances a town!demona wincon and only works in a soloQ way for scum!demona and I don't think that's how demona plays scum (and it doesn't work as well that way as it does for just town)
Which is kind of like an expansion of the "demona is centering a town!demona perspective thing" but I there's easier less abrasive things demona could have emulated if scum

^

isis post i was referring to that agrees with coral read then reiterates the town!demona because of approach thing

(which still i don’t really understand how isis thinks it generally takes me time to develop reads as town and i need to be poked but in this case her needing to do so is scum indicative because i also suggested chara vote for isis because i know i am town like i don’t get how these things are in opposition to eachother nor how my matching her expectation of town!me outside of my read of myself(?) is potentially scum indicative

like it altogether just doesn’t really make sense to me and makes me feel like her focus on my approach day one being the main reason i was town may have been to say ah different day no longer town but idk

idk can someone else maybe explain to me if it makes sense to you please)

I see what you're saying, yes. It does seem to directly go against the point she makes in one of her more recent posts where she now says this is like how you play as scum.

[catboi]

eh I can see that post coming from either alignment

people get real squirrely about requests to be given hammer when it's really more of a nulltell

[catboi]

if I'm scum why do you even care, I'm not beholden to making you not feel annoyed, obviously. I'm town though and you've all but declared me lockscum so I don't actually have reason to care if I'm annoying you, I'm not begging for you to townread me because I literally do not need it

cry more

This post made me sad. I don't think there's anything else to say.

you seem to be unable to pick a lane on my alignment but are dissatisfied with me declaring decisively a course of action that does not favor you. if i'm scum you know i'm not averse to playing dirty and am not going to hold back, if i'm town and you're town and i'm being a dumbass then yes it's unfortunate but you've given me no reason to respond any differently

if we are town unable to find each other and skitter literally scumslipped in front of me only for me to go "ah, nevertheless, carry on", oh well, I'll have a laugh about it. I have no idea what you're trying to do at all here.

[catboi]

Actually rereading today's posts i think coral looks a lot more townir than she did yesterday

Some of the hypotheticals contradicted by the nightswaps seem at minimum tedious to fake.

pre-writing a wall to appear uninformed is really pretty trivial imo

[catboi]

you seem to be unable to pick a lane on my alignment but are dissatisfied with me declaring decisively a course of action that does not favor you. if i'm scum you know i'm not averse to playing dirty and am not going to hold back, if i'm town and you're town and i'm being a dumbass then yes it's unfortunate but you've given me no reason to respond any differently

if we are town unable to find each other and skitter literally scumslipped in front of me only for me to go "ah, nevertheless, carry on", oh well, I'll have a laugh about it. I have no idea what you're trying to do at all here.

You literally said that if we're both town you have no reason to care about annoying me. I'm willing to vote first on Day 5 because

I really want to play and have fun

. Being a huge dick, constantly threatening to hostage take and only ever responding with WELL WHY DO YOU CARE HUH??? and refusing to accommodate for any of my strengths because I know you're willing to play dirty and not hold back just makes me want to vote skitter and have us both go back to retirement.

I don't really want to get in the gutter or prove I'm willing to throw to show I'm town. I want to have a fun game where I get to read and meta.

If you're scum, consider holding back and not playing dirty. You can play aggressive and bluff without being a gigantic jerk about it.

Maybe I should frame it this way: If I'm scum I'm definitely holding back and not playing dirty. Consider returning the favor.

i don't think declaring i'm voting someone who is not you when i am town is emotional terrorism. If you think me not bowing down and townreading you is dickish, that is your problem, not mine. You do not get to control me or my vote and I will vote when I am ready to.

I highly suggest you get over yourself.

[catboi]

If you want to talk about other slots or other games I'm down, but I really don't want a response to 1636.

maybe don't post things if you don't want me to respond to them

[catboi]

but coral is arguing that me doing so would make it unnecessary to actually resolve the keep and get my flip and that it's sooo much more valuable to treat the other voices here as confirmed town

Coral seems to think thay both town need to vote town to win keep
(Which is wrong and is what prompted my question)
I think her post makes more sense in context

no, she literally is arguing that we should not resolve the keep if I vote and spend days yakking it up while treating me as scum which is beyond nonsensical but provides a ton of benefit to her if she knows she's about to eat shit when I flip

Ig i'm confused why from your pov she looks bad when you flip {town from your pov}

b/c the attempts to marginalize/minimize me and my voice in my game while i'm active comes across as overtly pro-scum and someone who is likely to look very bad when the keep flips.


(it has crossed my mind that coral is just town with horrendous reasoning. i've been too soft on people who pushed me like that recently though and paid for it. this is complicated by absinthe's entrance to the day being mediocre)

[catboi]

why does town-coral worry about me flipping scum

[catboi]

This is where i'm at:
- gate: ffery scum
- wall: demona is still probably town (?) and i'm not sure which of isis/chara is scum
- keep: catboi is probably scum and i have a *very* strong preference for catboi/prism to vote me over me voting prism

She looks p bad if you're scum
I don't think she looks that bad here if you're town tbh

............................................

[catboi]

how does that make literally any sense

[catboi]

the annoying thing is I just finished rereading demona but my mind is dragging me to want to reread absinthe now when I should really be looking at Isis/Chara to get an answer for the wall

[catboi]

Those are separate thoughts
1. I think ffery and you are probably scum here

2. Totally separate thought, i don't follow your argument that coral looks bad if you flip town, i don't think she really looks bad if you flip town at all. In contrast, if you were to flip scum, i think she would *look* bad irregardless of her alignment due to associatives with you (but that does not inherently make her scum)

how in your mind does coral look bad based off that?

[catboi]

Those are separate thoughts
1. I think ffery and you are probably scum here

2. Totally separate thought, i don't follow your argument that coral looks bad if you flip town, i don't think she really looks bad if you flip town at all. In contrast, if you were to flip scum, i think she would *look* bad irregardless of her alignment due to associatives with you (but that does not inherently make her scum)

how in your mind does coral look bad based off that?

Yesterday's associtiaves with you when a lot of peipke were speculating catboi/coral/third

You flipping scum there means the overall solve might still be correct and it would make sense to go after coral next.

You flipping town would negate that solve

Pedit yes i acknowledged what you want to say there already, it is somewhat hypocritical

people were speculating that as a hypothetical but but that doesn't actually suggest a meaningful associative link, no? it beingin people's guesses isn't damning, people can be right on one player and wrong on another


I'm not really sure where this is leading I just wanted to interrogate the process because the points of view seem contradictory.

[catboi]

looking over 1587 three or four times I get where Isis is coming from and it makes some degree of sense I guess

[catboi]

someone came out of retirement only to roll scum in this game, what a hilariously cruel fate

Are you calling Faker scum or saying this whole playerlist is retirementers

hm

[catboi]

people were speculating that as a hypothetical but but that doesn't actually suggest a meaningful associative link, no? it beingin people's guesses isn't damning, people can be right on one player and wrong on another

Fair enuf, i'm just not conviced that coral comes out worse than you in your interaction with her

understood I guess, probably better to move on to other subjects

Catboi are u leaning towards me being town in the keep now?

I thought that was pretty explicit, yes. Not like 100% confident which is why I'm still questioning your POV on things you say but stated intention is to vote for you in a day or two when people won't yell at me for disrupting the game or whatever. I think Faker was counting on a default townread from me and when he didn't get it he's been trying to ATE me but he can't actually call me town so it's all been directed mostly at guilt tripping me.

[catboi]

I think Isis looks scummier than other people at the wall on review. The style is hard to parse but the signal to noise here is really low and I'm not seeign much commitment to calling people scum, some doubt expressed of faker but it's not really all-in. 1555 is really rough. Just "I liked the post", no elaboration. The lack of caution when previously having been fooled by Coral in another game is puzzling, would expect that read to get more diligence than it's shown. The reads on players in her game is fencesitting but also feels a bit like it's angled toward OMGUSing Chara. I'm not seeing a lot to convincingly call Isis town and whatever posts I felt in the moment yesterday don't hit me on a reread.

[catboi]

I'm sorry that I ever made you play again. I look forward to seeing you vote skitter in two days time.

You can vote her whenever, so there's no need to keep baiting and demotivating me further. To use your words: Why care? You don't have to convince skitter of anything at this point.

Don't know what's got you so sour unless I'm correct in my assessment. I'm going to respond to things you post in this game. I'm going to explain my thoughts not just to skitter but to everyone else in the game as well.

Me scumreading you is not an attempt to "bait" you. It is me playing the game.

[catboi]

I really don't think what I am posting is remotely out of bounds. But clearly I'm doing something wrong so I'm going to treat you as though I have you on ignore for the rest of the game so as to noot further exacerbate this.

[catboi]

225 from Chara still squicks me on a reread though it's not impossible that town can make a post like that. I feel like I might be lending too much credit to its day entrance but that and stuff like the reaction test townlean on absinthe feel like there's some subtlety to it that I don't attribute typically to scumplay. I like 242 - 245 - 253. Questions to Coral there feel good, calling back to something early, picking at semantics, just enough of a pointed edge where it looks like Chara feels it might be on to something. 572 feels like a good, nuanced post, the self-reflectiveness and doubting of its own reads when realizing they were similar to skitter where scum going for a mirroring/pocketing approach would be unlikely to do.

I guess in particular the "ah HA I was secretly scumreading Isis all along" feels real because, like, I expect scum to play offense harder than that where they need to present a case to sell people on the read but doing so in that manner is less likely to be persuasive.

[catboi]

I think Isis looks scummier than other people at the wall on review. The style is hard to parse but the signal to noise here is really low and I'm not seeign much commitment to calling people scum, some doubt expressed of faker but it's not really all-in. 1555 is really rough. Just "I liked the post", no elaboration. The lack of caution when previously having been fooled by Coral in another game is puzzling, would expect that read to get more diligence than it's shown. The reads on players in her game is fencesitting but also feels a bit like it's angled toward OMGUSing Chara. I'm not seeing a lot to convincingly call Isis town and whatever posts I felt in the moment yesterday don't hit me on a reread.

I elaborated later when skitter mentioned the post, you disliked my elaboration and thought I was townreading NAI. It's pretty awkward to feel things about a slot after previously getting snowed and feel like, should you develop this? based on record.
The way I read people walls of content that make sense and seem to sort people apart are something I tend to want to townbin if they hit tons and tons of character without slipping into a scummy thought process, usually I have confidence in seeing those slips and it feels like it's a way to read people. With her in a different minigame and a bad track record I guess I'm not on the front of the line to discuss that angle. Her volume is even higher than Eurybia though, same number of characters but more AI points covered.
I still think it's more likely Chara than not but I still want to pick Chara's mind.
I think it's absinthe in Coral's game and I can't remember anything ffery posts after she posts it so it's fine to let other people play.
I think your game is the second most interesting but I'm a little bit disengaged because of the rock throwing.
I think if I wave a wand and instagram filter out the sharp from your minigame I'd most want you to be voted because a lot of your takes at different steps of the game have made a little sense and moreso than their correctness don't really sound like you're working from 3 pieces of information (compared to like the tempo of how Coral's thoughts develp maybe)
i have a lot of chores and didn't want to post this long uck

I feel like it would be rude for me to not acknowledge this post given that it's in response to a scumlean I stated but I don't have a lot to elaborate on right now, I see what you're saying I guess, I'm going to move on to other subjects and circle back if it's necessary.

[catboi]

i promise to post a fanfic excerpt on day 2.

oh wait nvm lockscum

[catboi]

I guess in particular the "ah HA I was secretly scumreading Isis all along" feels real because, like, I expect scum to play offense harder than that where they need to present a case to sell people on the read but doing so in that manner is less likely to be persuasive.

I'm curious what the distinction is here for you between Chara having a secret Isis scumread and me having a secret Chara scumread? Is it just that they're in the same minigame? Or were the reads expressed differently? I don't really remember what I expressed exactly, but I remember thinking that Chara's felt like what I had in my head at least, which made me hesitate a bit.

(genuine question, trying to sort. less confident than I was earlier after a step back.)

dead honest I have no memory of seeing you talk about your read of Chara

[catboi]

Oh. You asked about it

okay, a few hundred posts and 8 hours ago, right,

that

read

I guess because yours came as part of a start of day wall that made it feel much more performative given the manner of presentation. It came across like it was specifically trying to be impressive with a large quantity of words but didn't match the level of thought. I still did want to hear about where you had felt Chara was trying to pocket people though. I am not dead-set on scumreading you given there is at least one townie trying to talk me out of it and I still need to re-read absinthe

[catboi]

Chara was trying consistently to pocket people

cite me some examples?

I think arguing people have been pockety is a difficultaccusation to prove because there are lots of behaviors in a typical game that can be made to feel that way, although it's not impossible to show.

This post seems hard to come by without also absorbing that I scumread Chara. I guess a lot of posts were flying by at the time and it could be hard to keep track, but it does make me feel like you weren't really trying to sort me with the question (or really reading my posts since then that have referenced the read).

I think it's really not hard to figure out why that exchange wasn't at the forefront of my mind currently.

[catboi]

can you both take a break plz ? >.>

skitter I have made a point of disengaging and am limiting myself to talking exclusively about others. I am working my way back through the players in the wall before a reread of absinthe.

[catboi]

i wrote that before seeing the mod post

i'm just going to move on

[catboi]

I caught up to 1363 in Chara's ISO and I still like the post, not just for how the read is presented but the elaboration of the thought of behind it. I need to reread absinthe at some point bu I probably need a break from the computer right now.

[catboi]

catboi can you talk about how your Faker read developed?

Sure. I think mid-late Day 1 I started to feel no one was super obviously scum and when thatthat's the case it's usually because someone is doing a convincing job of appearing town. That made Faker a plausible suspect, but I wanted to wait and see what became of the swaps. I felt there was basically no chance scum allow a highposting town-Faker to stay in the keep. I thought the pivot against me was a very plausible scum narative arc, even if I enabled it with my play, it still suits the scum wincon to suggest going to a location with me and acting buddy-buddy only to turn on me down the line. I think mostly from there his arguments when we were actually in the keep were incoherent and seemingly not coming from a town perspective at all. I don't really want to revisit all of that if possible though.

[catboi]

catboi can you talk about how your Faker read developed?

Sure. I think mid-late Day 1 I started to feel no one was super obviously scum and when thatthat's the case it's usually because someone is doing a convincing job of appearing town. That made Faker a plausible suspect, but I wanted to wait and see what became of the swaps. I felt there was basically no chance scum allow a highposting town-Faker to stay in the keep. I thought the pivot against me was a very plausible scum narative arc, even if I enabled it with my play, it still suits the scum wincon to suggest going to a location with me and acting buddy-buddy only to turn on me down the line. I think mostly from there his arguments when we were actually in the keep were incoherent and seemingly not coming from a town perspective at all. I don't really want to revisit all of that if possible though.

I think your premise “There’s no way a scum team allows town Faker to stay in the keep” flawed for the same reason my “strong players should be in either space against Tempest” argument flawed.

If there was only one scum in the Keep and two scum in another, then they’d have to swap elsewhere.

Since I am about to read that though I hope there’s more to your conclusion than that. Because it sounds like you’re starting with my slot scum and how to justify it.

Well, for starters, absinthe was switched out of the keep so the premise faker couldn't have been swapped out is incorrect. I also think Faker-absinthe is entirely plausible as teammates

This is way too fast for my brain atm LMAO

I know you're mostly joking but any game with me/you/skitter would be the biggest shitshow, but ~we'll see~

either you're scum and get your shot to humiliate me or we have a nightmare 3p that will ruin us both emotionally this sounds ideal to me

Apparently it’s Catboi. This makes me really sus of Catboi. Can you explain please?

What am I being asked to explain, exactly?

[catboi]

I'm halfway into rereading absinthe and I don't know if I'm just predisposing myself to reading her scum or what at this point, hard to tell unfortunately.

[catboi]

FWIW though if absinthe is scum I think she's far more likely to be scum with Faker than skitter. I'd explain but I don't actually have to so

[catboi]

Tammy is ic'd at gate
Current consensus is ffery is scum there

Catboi/faker were both leaning towards voting me in keep, which is good

And wall is the difficult one

What's making the wall so difficult?

opinions for who the scum is there are divided

[catboi]

i dunno man why

is

mafia hard

[catboi]

I didn't think you were being salty. I just don't think there's an actual meaningful answer to be given, at least from my perspective. I have suspected everyone in the Wall at varying points in time. I don't have a high confidence townread on anyone, though Chara is probably the closest after a reread. That's just how the game is, sometimes it's difficult to get a read.

What are you hoping to gain from this question?

[catboi]

I’m bummed about the replace outs

I wanted to ask prism why they seemed that it would be likely for me to be ic’d. There were a few times that prism said something along the lines of it being nice to have a Tammy-clear and iirc it was brought up when there was a decent amount of suspicion on me. Might be nothing, but I remember thinking it was unlikely and it was something I’d made a note about to ask.

I skimmed through yesterday here and there but mostly just to keep somewhat current. I need to work on a reread and actually read everything from yesterday. Probably won’t get that all done tonight. I have some things to finish up with today before I have some free time to get back involved.

Whenever you're done and caught up I'd like to talk things over with you.

[catboi]

And does Prism try to plant a fake town tell on the opening of day two by saying that he thought that ffery was the one confirmed town? Some people think that things like that are cheap, and frankly I misread it the same exact way, so that felt natural.

by his own admission, yes absolutely he will use tactics like that as scum. I could probably find posts that admit that with a little effort.

[catboi]

I'm feeling increasingly convinced it's just ffery at gate

atp her reads are too bad to come from someone who is informed of everyone's alignment

[catboi]

Ok but like her reads are too bad to look like she's solving either, abd coral looks like she is

Pedit r.e. ffery

that wasn't the point i was making, i meant coral is trying to figure things out, she is just very likely completely backwards on everything in a way that scum rarely are

[catboi]

nevermind don't worry about it

[catboi]

I have to find the townie in you/catboi to win this / convince the townie in you/catboi to vote me to win

I have to solve this minigame to win it

Pedit i'm trying to snap out of it if i am wrong >.>
That isnt the way to do that tho

How do you recommend it? The only times I have really seen you change your mind is through other flips and that may not be the best option here. I am kinda trying to reach in the creative ideas bag and it’s so much simpler to assume you’re scum. Help me help you.

so is skitter town or what?

[catboi]

okay

[catboi]

@math like from my pov i don't see why scum-you cant vote yourself, so it doesnt really convince me of everything

And i'm confused why you arent trying to solve/talk to catboi
Like even if you think i'm scum i'm confused ehy you wouldnt try to verify that by making sure you do, indeed, townread the other person

@catboi does math change how you're approaching this minigame at all?

I mean, hm, I don't want to act like I'm shutting him out because that would be rude but...so far his behavior feels like he's trying to sell people on voting him more than assessing our alignments. I also think that if I work from an assumption of absinthe being scum, it points more strongly toward you being town and faker being scum.

[catboi]

Catboi isn’t screaming “Math is scum” constantly. So if Catboi is the town there’s a possibility they will see I am town and you’re the scum.

So, uh, for the record, the slot you are in replaced out because I got in a huge shitfight with its prior occupant because I had been mostly convinced he was scum. I'm not saying I'm giving you no chance, but. My inclination was toward voting skitter before that happened. You can figure out whether you're okay with that or not.

[catboi]

I also tr Coral; have a blank for absinthe.

Last time I played with fferyl she was kind of blank to me and I just read her predecessor because she was a replacement.
It's scum indicative that shes not making more of an impression.

tbf she is V/LA right now and I think there's an inclination to bias yourself toward townread someone if they're actually present and saying stuff like Coral is, but my reread of her ISO didn't give me a whole lot.

[catboi]

Catboi isn’t screaming “Math is scum” constantly. So if Catboi is the town there’s a possibility they will see I am town and you’re the scum.

So, uh, for the record, the slot you are in replaced out because I got in a huge shitfight with its prior occupant because I had been mostly convinced he was scum. I'm not saying I'm giving you no chance, but. My inclination was toward voting skitter before that happened. You can figure out whether you're okay with that or not.

Awesome. /s

No wonder the game state is so tilted.

Then it sounds like we’ve got an uphill battle on both sides not just Skitter’s.

Because I know one of you is wrong.

I mean, if you're town you don't need to have one of us vote for you to win.

[catboi]

I also tr Coral; have a blank for absinthe.

Last time I played with fferyl she was kind of blank to me and I just read her predecessor because she was a replacement.
It's scum indicative that shes not making more of an impression.

tbf she is V/LA right now and I think there's an inclination to bias yourself toward townread someone if they're actually present and saying stuff like Coral is, but my reread of her ISO didn't give me a whole lot.

I had the same reads EoD1 when absinthe was active. Actually if I think about it my EoD1 read for the slots that eventually got to keep would be "idk but maybe catboi town?" and that's similar too.

The biggest change d2 for me is cooling a lot on demona's slot, liking Chara more by comparison and figuring out some less paranoid basises for why it picked wall the way it did.

If I decide to play with a little less ego and sheep Coral more I'd rather keep believing I can read Chara rather that squeeze a townread of you I can't seem to articulate well.

fair enough re: having the reads day 1, I think even if coral is town there's no particular reason to believe her reads are any good though. I think demona being scum is a distinct possibility, the one thing that gave me pause was her complaining when I fosed her in a way that reminded me of her town response to pressure but I don't know how capable she is of replicating that as scum. I am kind of hoping we just go 2/2 so it doesn't have to be a concern.

[catboi]

I know you said "I don't actually have to explain this" but I think it's important to support that claim because it seems unbelievable to me.

no actually i don't owe you jack shit lmfao

[catboi]

I don't have time for this tonight happy holidays

[catboi]

thanks, you too~

[catboi]

nya

going to catch up on whatever i missed since last active

[catboi]

Catboi - how would you feel about being the voter in your area?

I have been basically fine with being the voter since the phase started and have said as much. Your call on when you want the resolve to happen.

[catboi]

Catboi isn’t screaming “Math is scum” constantly. So if Catboi is the town there’s a possibility they will see I am town and you’re the scum.

So, uh, for the record, the slot you are in replaced out because I got in a huge shitfight with its prior occupant because I had been mostly convinced he was scum. I'm not saying I'm giving you no chance, but. My inclination was toward voting skitter before that happened. You can figure out whether you're okay with that or not.

Awesome. /s

No wonder the game state is so tilted.

Then it sounds like we’ve got an uphill battle on both sides not just Skitter’s.

Because I know one of you is wrong.

I mean, if you're town you don't need to have one of us vote for you to win.

No I literally do.

My skills are well…bad. The best chance we have to win is if one of you votes me.

I do not trust myself to reach the right conclusion.

Okay, but this is literally identical to the scum win condition

[catboi]

I know you said "I don't actually have to explain this" but I think it's important to support that claim because it seems unbelievable to me.

no actually i don't owe you jack shit lmfao

i am still curious about the apparent strength of your reads on Coral/absinthe, i don't see what's so bad about absinthe's reads that you think she isn't informed, if that's what you were saying.

I interpreted it this way at first as well, but 2013 makes it sound like he's talking about me. I think his current stated perspective is that I am town who isn't worth talking to.

This is correct. I believe your reads are likely completely incorrect and that you are deeply tunneled. In an ordinary game, I might need to explain my read either change your read on me or persuade you that my scumread is correct. (actually in a regular game i probably just say fuck it 1v1 me but w/e) However, in this game, you're isolated from me and I control my own destiny, you have basically no influence on the outcome of my game whatsoever. Therefore I see basically no purpose for dialogue between us, I'm not aiming to convince you of anything, I literally don't care.

[catboi]

why don't you think i'm playing to the scum wincon again?

I guess the way you went about things didn't feel like you were? I don't have a problem with saying "I'd prefer to be voted" because that's true for both alignments but you seemed to be making attempts to discern alignments still and while that can be bluffed (and is necessary for playing this properly and looking the part), I didn't think what you were saying looked fake. I could be wrong but that's always a possibility in this game, this is just what it feels like to me.


Mathblade's approach here is flagrantly unsubtle if scum, but also if he is scum, what else could he do?If I'm town who has promised to vote correctly he can't take an actual game action because he has toeither accept you as town or say he thinks I'm town who's making a mistake.

[catboi]

is it silly to think scum kitty is scumreading Coral/townreading absinthe so he looks uninformed upon an absinthe scumflip?

It's silly because I'm town and also not townreading absinthe currently, but because I love to talk about What I Would Do As Scum, I will say it is silly regardless - in general I don't find that angle is often a successful one, people in games more often than not tend to assume the simplest possible conclusions to things and it's easy to exploit that. I don't think making that play would be any more likely to get people to townread me and win my own game but in all likelihood I'd be playing solely to run the clock here in order to force the town to make worse decisions elsewhere. The reads I gave on the gate would be entirely dependent on my read of Tempest and how much she trusted my opinion. I'd be trying to get her to vote wrong, if she trusts me I align with my partner, if she doesn't trust me I bus and hope reverse psychology works.

Anyway, to be clear: I was townreading absinthe initially at the start of Day 2, further evaluation has made me doubt that read.

skitter is having a hedgey game of lightweight thoughts, I don't know if that's just how she plays but I feel worried that the structure of the minigame is a great reason for her to find a million hedged thoughts about the game. I don't want to impose my read of skitter on other people X.X

i sort of feel the same regarding skitter, but i also feel like that is just how she tends to express herself,

catboi being the only member of the Keep that isn't campaigning for himself to be the vote is interesting and probably the singular thing i am trying to explore from a scum kitty perspective right now. because the smart play as scum (to me) is to pretend to favour a townie while of course trying to be the vote yourself, but that only works if you actually manage to be voted by one of those townies. of course, kitty wouldn't be able to know that Math would replace in, would have reason to favour skitter for town over Prism (wants skitter's vote), etc.
that both skitter and Math are asking to be voted because they aren't confident making a decision between the remaining two is.. problematic, though in skitter's case she's communicated her willingness to vote catboi as well, i believe?

i don't know, a lot of thoughts bouncing around on the Keep that are based on how i'd navigate this scenario as Keep scum, but none of these three are me so it may be an exercise in futility.

Also!! If I was considering playing the keep Day 1 as scum, I would certainly be playing differently as my goal would be to get townread, but also this style of game is not really what I would want to play given I'd be much more comfortable simply going after someone hard. You could say I was strongarmed into it but I feel like on a scumteam I would have active consideration of where I want to go, I'm pretty sure that was part of my play the first time I played this.

[catboi]

Ah okay! I didn’t remember who said they were good with voting. My thought about that is that you are one of the people whose reads I respect the most. Not that I expect you’re always going to be right or anything, but really respect. So if you’re town, I think you have a good chance of choosing correctly, and if you’re scum that works too.

A few days ago you said you wanted to chat when I caught up. Was there anything in particular?

Thanks although I've had a pretty miserable year as town, a few bright spots but mostly terrible games

I completely forgot about that, honestly. But racking my brain, I think I wanted to know where your head is at as far as your reads and how you wanted the minigames to be resolved.

[catboi]

Math: am i scum in the keep to you rn?
If you had to vote someone rn would it be catboi?

As of this second, yes and yes.

But I don’t plan on voting as established earlier. It’d be extremely antitown to do so when Catboi should be the one voting.

...because?

[catboi]

I mentally skimmed over the last few pages maybe i'm too susceptible to being swayed by who's talking but up in the air scum guess is absinthe/math/demonaslot. I'll try to see if there's anything I feel like responding to tomorrow when I am less tired

[catboi]

again people don't understand how I operate

it's fine though