Open 860 | Elected Decisions | Postgame

[Radical Rat]

HOLD IT RIGHT THERE

Before we get into RVS or SSS or any other vote flinging...

First thing we need to do is sort out HOW we're playing this game. I think we should approach each decision separately, as much as is feasible. First we decide whether we're Divulging or Departing, then we decide who, and finally we designate a PR.

This way we avoid any hasty decisions or accidental confusion hammers

[Radical Rat]

With Divulgence we never have to worry about a mislim, and we have more time to proliferate PRs. However, it does put scum 100% in control of deaths, assuming no PR interference, and in the event we mistakenly give scum a PR and they role Vengeful or Vig or PGO or something... That could be very problematic.

I do think having safety in eliminations and more PRs overall is worth that risk though.

VOTE: Divulgence

[Radical Rat]

We have THREE votes to make here, not just two. Though the rules do seem to indicate we CAN combine the divulge/depart vote as some have been doing, I think that's a bad idea and we should take things separately, otherwise someone is going to accidentally hammer something and we're all confused and also dead

[Radical Rat]

We have THREE votes to make here, not just two. Though the rules do seem to indicate we CAN combine the divulge/depart vote as some have been doing, I think that's a bad idea and we should take things separately, otherwise someone is going to accidentally hammer something and we're all confused and also dead

? - what's the third vote....divulge/depart, nominate for PR....and?

1. Divulgence or Departure
2. Who is getting Divulged or Departed
3. Who gets the PR

[Radical Rat]

Yes. Otherwise people voting "x for departure" and "x for divulgence" will stack toward hammering x, and potentially someone not keeping track would accidentally hammer

[Radical Rat]

It's not explicitly stated but I guess that's one way to do it although locking into a divulge course and then someone gets scummy, do we revote?

no - we make them the target of the divulge. either they're cleared or we depart them the next day.

Yes. Otherwise people voting "x for departure" and "x for divulgence" will stack toward hammering x, and potentially someone not keeping track would accidentally hammer

I was thinking asking the lines that pp was. I think we're aware enough to know what's being hammered.

So you don't anticipate ANYONE getting confused by having "competing" wagons that are also kind of the same wagon?

[Radical Rat]

Explain please, Rad

Perhaps more likely is the other way around, people voting all voting for Divulgence, but on different players, and Divulgence gets hammered prematurely.

In either case though, it is very feasible that a player who does not fully grasp the voting mechanics, isn't paying close enough attention, or just loses track in between VCs to accidentally hammer one or the other. Ideally yes, we'd all be aware of the gamestate and not do that, but by doing things one step at a time we remove any possibility for such accidents.

[Radical Rat]

I'm not impressed with Rat's posts so far. The mech talk is fine, but that's all they've done so far. They don't really have any reads or readable interactions yet.

@Rat:

Could you give us some reads soon?

Been focusing on the mech because I think it's important to get sorted, as well as being what the first vote should be, but I do indeed have reads.

I think Enchant is probably Town. I don't believe I've played with Nancy before, but Andante's posts look like Andante, and I like the Taly push.

Taly is probably a scumlean for me, looks kinda like they might be trying to buddy Galron. Definitely my preference for a Divulgence.

No one else has really done much that stands out to me

[Radical Rat]

Why no one wanted to get Bulletproof?

It's literally possibility to scream "Divulge me and give all PRs to me".
Immortal Tracker/Doctor/Jailkeeper is Kind of Ass.

Problem is if they don't roll bulletproof the first time, they're dead

[Radical Rat]

I think you sound believably cautious, Radical Rat. How does that make you feel to be town binned for sounding believably cautious?

Fine, I guess? I don't really understand why you're asking this, but yeah, being townread is good?

[Radical Rat]

I'm not impressed with Rat's posts so far. The mech talk is fine, but that's all they've done so far. They don't really have any reads or readable interactions yet.

@Rat:

Could you give us some reads soon?

Been focusing on the mech because I think it's important to get sorted, as well as being what the first vote should be, but I do indeed have reads.

I think Enchant is probably Town. I don't believe I've played with Nancy before, but Andante's posts look like Andante, and I like the Taly push.

Taly is probably a scumlean for me, looks kinda like they might be trying to buddy Galron. Definitely my preference for a Divulgence.

No one else has really done much that stands out to me

I don't particularly disagree with these reads

What makes Enchant town to you?

It's the vibes. Difficult to quantify but I've been with Town!Enchant in a few games lately, and this feels the same.

[Radical Rat]

I'm not impressed with Rat's posts so far. The mech talk is fine, but that's all they've done so far. They don't really have any reads or readable interactions yet.

@Rat:

Could you give us some reads soon?

Been focusing on the mech because I think it's important to get sorted, as well as being what the first vote should be, but I do indeed have reads.

I think Enchant is probably Town. I don't believe I've played with Nancy before, but Andante's posts look like Andante, and I like the Taly push.

Taly is probably a scumlean for me, looks kinda like they might be trying to buddy Galron. Definitely my preference for a Divulgence.

No one else has really done much that stands out to me

FMPOV this is SvT, Roden is scum trying to shade RR.

Eh, this kind of thing happens to me a lot, I don't think it's really AI... yet.

[Radical Rat]

Spoiler: I am perpetually 12 and I'm sorry

PP(hard

[Radical Rat]

and finally we designate a PR.

Why choose three, you can get only one.

Pick with wisdom.

Obviously Neighborizer is best one.

Why give that info to mafs? Both pieces?

What are the odds these 2 are maf together, and maf was under the understanding of "we pick the PR people are given"
Cause, the PR thing is the MOST CLEAR part of the setup, but if maf are assuming we pick the PR, they're gonna start thinking that way, and yeah... I was reading for something else, and noticed RR and Galron both just instantly assuming town picks the PR, while both seeming to understand a lot of the other mechanics, so this kinda jumped out at me, and I thought it was worth bringing up. Like, if you KNOW all about divulge/departure, shouldn't you also KNOW PRs are assigned randomly? like, it literally says that... idk. just an observation for yall. I'll probably push it once one of them flips scum. so just a heads up

-Andante

This is NOT what I meant.
I suppose I could have worded better, but when I said "designate the PR" I meant designate the person who would become a PR, not the actual role they receive. And if you look at my other posts, I'm pretty sure I was more clear on that elsewhere

[Radical Rat]

This game would be beyond broken if we could choose the PR

[Radical Rat]

And if you look at my other posts, I'm pretty sure I was more clear on that elsewhere

I guess this one's a moot point since Enchant apparently immediately "corrected" me, which I didn't even notice at the time, but... eh.

[Radical Rat]

HURT: Frogsterking

Scum townspewing Roden if I'm correct here

[Radical Rat]

While I don't oppose divulging Greeting inherently, it makes no sense for Frogster to not want to divulge Roden in favor of Departing him later. The only reason he should want that is if he knows the Divulgence will reveal Roden as Town, and wants to avoid that happening

[Radical Rat]

HURT: Frogsterking

Scum townspewing Roden if I'm correct here

And if I'm Town, what's going on?

If you're Town, I have no idea what your angle here is. But we can sort that out together after you kindly divulge your alignment to us.

[Radical Rat]

It's not the ONLY thing you can be doing, but when you specifically say that you don't want to Divulge Roden so that you can "kill him quickly" later, that's a huge red flag to me. We have the means to (relatively) safely identify scum without risking a mislim, and you explicitly oppose doing so for Roden specifically, not just that you'd rather divulge someone else for now.

[Radical Rat]

I'd be willing to go on Galron, yeah. Frogster would still be my preference though, because red there would essentially clear Roden as well (even in a hypothetical bussing scenario, Divulgence would get the job done better...), so it's kinda like two checks at once.

[Radical Rat]

HIS

Why is everyone making that slip up...

You should change it in your control panel to show your preference.

It actually got reset during the pronoun rework, will fix. I'm just wondering why people default to female for me.

If I were to guess it'd be that "Kitty" is used as a female name/nickname sometimes, and has developed a feminine connotation as a result

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Divulge Frogsterking
Since apparently the hurt tag didn't work like I thought it might

[Radical Rat]

Fun Times, would you be willing to join on Frog?

[Radical Rat]

My experience with reading Frogsterking is that he's very unpredictable and erratic (KTaNE). My impression is that he's surprisingly making some sense in this game and making an effort, which makes me paranoid and unwilling to trust him at all. Doesn't mean he's necessarily scum though. I wouldn't mind getting him Divulged though.

To me he's absolutely Not making sense, so I have no idea what you're seeing here. Though you aren't the first to say he's normally erratic/unpredictable, I still can't imagine this as Town right now. It seems like he does have clear goals, and that those goals are Mafia-oriented

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Roden I still think if you want to hit scum this is the best slot for that.

Change your mind on "saving him to kill quickly" then?

[Radical Rat]

I'm pretty sure this is TvT.
Have more thoughts but my break is almost over, no time to write them out right now.

[Radical Rat]

I'm pretty sure this is TvT.
Have more thoughts but my break is almost over, no time to write them out right now.

This post is scummy though for real. Why does Radical Rat feel a need to defend his thoughts, and if he has reasons for what he's saying, why not share them?

If you would read the post, you would see the reason I didn't share them, that being the end of my break and a lack of time to write a longer post.

[Radical Rat]

Now that I am off work, I have the ability to elaborate further.

But yeah, it looked to me like Bella and Andante we're just talking past one another. Bella did definitely answer Andante's questions, if not quite to her satisfaction, but I get the sense that Bella herself doesn't fully understand the reason her read changed beyond what she's already expressed. And sometimes that happens.

For Andante's part, it looks like she was hyperfocusing on Bella's personal grievances ('too aggressive', wanting to talk to Nancy instead, etc.), and overlooking Bella's genuine attempts to answer the questions in between.

In both cases, it looks like frustrated Town, and not Mafia flavored aggression, so I believe the exchange to have been TvT.

[Radical Rat]

At present, I would be willing to move to Galron, but my preference is still Frogster.

Galron is an "I have no idea how to read" slot, while Frog is an active scumread.

Enchant, Fun Times, Bellaphant, and Roden are all fairly strong townreads, and I'd rather not divulge them today.

[Radical Rat]

I'd have to go back and look at Greeting. Off the top of my head, I have no strong impression one way or the other.

[Radical Rat]

Alright, there's definitely weirdness going on with Greeting. Especially not fond of him going "I don't think I'm very towny," but eh. I'll throw 'em in with Taly in the scumlean but lower priority pile.

[Radical Rat]

Btw, I did a bit of a metadive on Frogs last night and I agree with Andante that he’s probably town here.

Elaborate on this for me please. I understand that he acts similarly as Town from what people are saying, but that isn't enough for me to discount what I perceive to be clear scum motivation behind his actions. Did you also find that he

doesn't

act like this as scum? Do you have games you think provide particularly good examples of either?

[Radical Rat]

Btw, I did a bit of a metadive on Frogs last night and I agree with Andante that he’s probably town here.

Elaborate on this for me please. I understand that he acts similarly as Town from what people are saying, but that isn't enough for me to discount what I perceive to be clear scum motivation behind his actions. Did you also find that he

doesn't

act like this as scum? Do you have games you think provide particularly good examples of either?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=89120&user_select%5 ... &start=200

Frogs - town

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88949&user_select%5B%5D=16233

Frogs - scum

Hey look that's me! I was wondering what game it was I recognized Frogster from.

In any case, I do see your point here. Scum game seems more concerned with his own image, as well as being somewhat "softer."

I still kinda want to divulge him tbh, but I know I have a tunneling problem, so I'll come back to it later with more information.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Divulge Galron

I keep going back and forth between preferring Greeting or Galron here. Settling on Galron because he's not V/LA and I think Kitty's right about it mostly being a win/win.

Though I also don't care much for Kitty just going "I'm Town" and dipping after being voted...

[Radical Rat]

Actually no, I think I will

VOTE: Divulge Greeting

Kitty makes me feel weird enough about Galron to not trust the wagon, and if Greeting does happen to flip red, that may help me with sorting out Frogsterking...

[Radical Rat]

I have typed out like three posts changing my vote again (Taly, back to Frog, back to Galron, now settling on Greeting again), so I am banning myself from the thread for at least a little while to give my brain time to calm down

[Radical Rat]

KittyTacky do you have any scum reads?

You are my only concrete scumread, now that I think about it. I usually take a little while to start making lots of reads.

VOTE: Divulge Galron

I didn’t like Galron voting self-divulge. Saying feel free to divulge me reads +town but actually self-divulging when no one is even voting you or maybe only one other slot - seems a bit over the top to me. In any case, Galron told me to “blow him up” in NEP game, correctly calculating I would obviously be hesitant to do so. That shit only works once on me.

~N

Yeah, outright asking to be divulged could be a mafia WIFOM play. The more I think about it, the more likely he's scum.

I meant frog!scum not Galron!scum but the quote is still being taken out of context and it’s by multiple slots so I may not be explaining well.

I think Kitty throwing reads out without depth is typical of their scum game so they would be an ideal candidate to learn the alignment of. With that in mind I don’t think I’m the hypothetical world where kitty is scum, that frogster would be pressuring a partner (kitty) into expanding those reads the way that they are. So I am positing that I DO NOT think they are scum together. But I have suspicions about each individually.

I'm fine with being divulged so my admittedly poor play doesn't become a distraction to town.

Like I know I'm town so it's not ideal but I wouldn't complain.

Boy does that sure look interesting.

I'm back with a clear head, decided to ISO Kitty since that's where a lot of my thoughts kept returning, and... This struck me.

VOTE: Divulge KittyTacky
This will probably be my final divulgence vote for today, so moving on to heals...

[Radical Rat]

If we divulge correctly, the PR will be the biggest target for an NK, unless scum chicken out at the 1/12 chance PGO. So ideally, we should heal a strong townread that we also are okay with dying which.... Is no one, really.

Also for that reason I am wary of the self-healers. Seems weird they'd be signing up to die, but at the end of the day someone has to do it.

I guess who feels most confident in aiming a roleblock/JK shot if they get lucky?

[Radical Rat]

So what do you see scummy there Rad? More so than Greeting anyway?

What I see scummy is that he accused you of being suspicious for doing something he himself did earlier. Reads like he forgot he'd said that, and then tried to use it as a made up excuse to push you.

[Radical Rat]

It doesh't make me good choice.

You giving town leader (if i survive night) to most foolish person in the room.

@Roden, this is why I switched my vote.

PR doesn't mean town leader. I think he's best suited to have the PR since he's a general concensus town read who isn't particularly confident but has a couple specific reads. He has good game sense, but I don't think his day play is strong enough for him to make the pushes he wants to make. But if he's given a PR and rolls Vig or Cop then I think he's got a good chance of making an impact on the game.

I'd rather give you or Rat a PR as we get further into the game since you're town reads who have strong day play. If you're given a PR but get NK'd early, that's more of a loss than Enchant dying early.

Well the PR also has a chance to get bp or two shot PGO, so you’d have to weigh that in as well. I actually think I’m less likely to die N1 if it’s me unless PR gets doc and protects me.

~N

Why would you be less likely to die as the PR?

[Radical Rat]

It doesh't make me good choice.

You giving town leader (if i survive night) to most foolish person in the room.

@Roden, this is why I switched my vote.

PR doesn't mean town leader. I think he's best suited to have the PR since he's a general concensus town read who isn't particularly confident but has a couple specific reads. He has good game sense, but I don't think his day play is strong enough for him to make the pushes he wants to make. But if he's given a PR and rolls Vig or Cop then I think he's got a good chance of making an impact on the game.

I'd rather give you or Rat a PR as we get further into the game since you're town reads who have strong day play. If you're given a PR but get NK'd early, that's more of a loss than Enchant dying early.

Well the PR also has a chance to get bp or two shot PGO, so you’d have to weigh that in as well. I actually think I’m less likely to die N1 if it’s me unless PR gets doc and protects me.

~N

Why would you be less likely to die as the PR?

Because pr can possibly get bp or 2 shot PGO and we’re a universal tr.

I don't know that I agree scum would be more likely to target you than the PR if it were someone else, but I do trust you with it if you want it.

HEAL: Fun Times

[Radical Rat]

Is this game impossible for scum to win unless the have like 4 people?

It definitely seems very townsided.

VOTE: Divulge

I still think we should do these votes separately.

[Radical Rat]

Though it should go faster this time, since I think we're mostly on the same page regarding Divulgence/Departure now

[Radical Rat]

RIP Fun Times, saw it coming

I also agree with giving the conftown a PR

HEAL: Kitty

Why do people still want to vote Divulge? We're on odds.

It's safer, regardless of odds/evens. Hitting scum is ideal, but if we do miss I'd rather have another conftown as opposed to a mislim. I'd probably keep divulging until it's mandatory not to.

[Radical Rat]

I'm fine with divulging again but I'm not okay with wasting the pr power on Kitty. I FoS all who are in support of Healing Kitty. This is a very convenient choice for scum as they will be able to both kill our IC and our TPR at the same time.

Conversely, we don't have a risk of scum getting the PR, and there is a slight chance we end up with an immortal IC.

I haven't reached a conclusion here yet myself, but I think I am leaning toward Kitty

[Radical Rat]

Yeah, I've thought it through, and I'm pretty sure Kitty needs the PR here.

Risking a Scum PR is just too dangerous, as while Vengeful/Vig are the only IMMEDIATELY useful ones, others such as PGO/Roleblocker/JK, can interfere with other PRs, and even if we do hit Town, scum not killing them is going to create paranoia and we'll probably end up divulging them anyway to be safe.

[Radical Rat]

I'm okay with Enchant getting healed, pretty sure he's Town here.

I do still think it's better to do Kitty, but this is fine for now.

Regarding Divulgence, probably Galron, Greeting, or Vivax.

I'll need to reread and such, and should have a verdict later tonight.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Divulge Vivax

This is where I'm at, I think.
Vivax/Galron interactions look not great, and Taly already left a weird taste in my mouth.

[Radical Rat]

Sorry, I've been neglecting this game but I'm here. I'll get caught up within the next few hours

[Radical Rat]

Galron have you thought about the wonderful scenario in which you get divulged as town? You can embrace the power of an IC instead of leaving it to Greeting.

You can be a town hero in a few simple steps.

If I weren't already voting Vivax, I would be from this post alone.

We NEED to hit actual scum, and we cannot allow the relative safety of Divulgence to override that need.

Having an IC if we miss is nice, but should Not be the goal.

I do understand that this comes from a scumread, but pushing the idea that Galron should divulge himself as Town is outright dangerous

[Radical Rat]

Greeting also continues to not look great, but it seems I'm a bit late to the party on that one

[Radical Rat]

Galron I've actually turned around on I think. I do still disagree with the willingness to self-divulge, and the tone is weird, but early on I thought it looked like Taly was buddying him, and now Vivax pushing from weird angles as well. I think it spews Galron's slot Town.

[Radical Rat]

Galron I've actually turned around on I think. I do still disagree with the willingness to self-divulge, and the tone is weird, but early on I thought it looked like Taly was buddying him, and now Vivax pushing from weird angles as well. I think it spews Galron's slot Town.

You thought taly was buddying me, thus I'm town when that happened, but you've turned around now to a town read on me?

It was an impression I got from Taly early on, then as Taly stopped existing you started to look more questionable on your own, and now that Vivax has been pushing you disingenuously it loops back around.

[Radical Rat]

Maybe structured like beginning of game -> mid d1 -> Eod 1 -> S/O D2 -> present

And a short bit about why you read Galron that way at each stage.

From what I can recall, it was something like this:

Initial impression was Town, mostly colored by Taly interactions.
As the day went on, tone was weirdly aggressive in some places, and I think there was either self-healing or self-divulging happening? Either way, looked sketchy to me.
Near the end, I found Kitty to be scummier, and since Kitty was also pushing for Galron, it led to me hesitating and deciding to do Kitty first.

Starting today, I had Galron in my PoE, since nothing much had changed and my concerns about Kitty were clearly unfounded.
Then I vanished for a while by accident, and when I was catching up Vivax's interactions with Galron made Vivax look worse and Galron better, culminating in Vivax's post trying to bait a hypothetical Town!Galron into voting himself, which when combined with my earlier impression from Taly makes Galron come out looking Town.

[Radical Rat]

RC...you hammered Greeting then pre-flipped him as green, that's what I'm talking about here

I think you're reading way too into things here. It makes far more sense to assume "tomorrow" just means "next elimination" in this context than that RCE would be openly and explicitly announcing planned mislims

[Radical Rat]

What Roden appears to be saying is that by treating it as a known fact that we will be voting for someone else tomorrow, you must have preknowledge of Greeting flipping green, since otherwise tomorrow would be dedicated to eliminating them.

[Radical Rat]

Though ironically, I think it may be that Roden is making the same slip he accuses you of...

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Depart Greeting

[Radical Rat]

Frog was spewed town so that's fine.

HEAL: Enchant

I want to turn Enchant into a Mafia hunting supersoldier

[Radical Rat]

That quote was not supposed to happen

[Radical Rat]

But yeah, no kill means Enchant must have received one of Roleblocker/JK/Doctor/BP. He should NOT claim which, because depending on who scum attempted to kill, the only one they could potentially remove from possibility is Doctor. And if scum think he might have a BP, they may be wary about targeting him again. And if he doesn't have a BP, we're giving him another chance to roll it.

[Radical Rat]

The idea was based on the assumption Mafia continued to prioritize PR and Enchant could have had BP, or Mafia could have thought he had BP.

Him claiming otherwise makes my supersoldier plan less good. But damn it, it'd be fun.

HEAL: KittyTacky

[Radical Rat]

I disagree that Frog was spewed Town. Nothing in Greeting's ISO seems to preclude the possibility of them bussing each other.

[Radical Rat]

I don't understand the super-soldier thing. Do you mean, Rad, that Enchant would get two PRs under your plan or do you want to just possibly change the nature of the PR? I don't think the former is possible. Not sure about the latter.

We are explicitly allowed by the setup to stack PRs, and even use them simultaneously, and if Enchant had been bulletproof, or if scum had believed him to be bulletproof, feeding him all of the PRs makes him into an unstoppable force of scum destruction.

[Radical Rat]

Before we do anything, KittyTacky, do you have results worth sharing?

Don't claim yet if you don't though

[Radical Rat]

Does it make most sense to depart today? Or do we have enough credit from the no nks?

If I'm not mistaken, we're allowed one more miss regardless of which method we use. Divulgence is better imo because of the safety, but departure wouldn't be unreasonable if we had enough confidence in someone.

I definitely do not have that level of confidence though

[Radical Rat]

From the reads here, I'd consider scum in me/rce/Taly (vivax). Possibly frog, but im not interested in that today.

You'd consider scum in... you?

[Radical Rat]

From the reads here, I'd consider scum in me/rce/Taly (vivax). Possibly frog, but im not interested in that today.

You'd consider scum in... you?

Those are the three scum greeting id'd

. No, obviously I wouldn't, but objectively. The other two slots marry with my reads so working it out was really helpful. Unlike your question, rad: what answer did you expect, honestly

You're right, it is unhelpful and this was pretty much the only response I would have expected. I just saw the line while skimming and thought it odd.

[Radical Rat]

More interestingly, what do you think of the other two slots?

I don't really see RCE scum, and have been suspicious of Taly/Vivax pretty much all game.

I do agree that Galron is probably not scum here, and I think Roden basically townslipped with the RCE interactions.

Which means last scum would have to be either you or Not_Mafia.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: RCE

VOTE: rce

VOTE: RCE

I'll play

I really don't see this, but either way shouldn't we at least wait for the replacement?

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Divulge Not_Mafia

In the PoE, and probably the hardest to read before we have to start departing.

[Radical Rat]

Which means last scum would have to be either you, Penguin, or Not_Mafia.

[Radical Rat]

Not_Mafia is hard to read, I don't think his predecessor was.

I still think the early interactions with regard to Roden looked agenda-driven, and though I was convinced to back off a bit, as the pool of candidates narrows, I am forced to return. And since I unfortunately cannot pressure and question Frogsterking directly anymore, I'm reliant on my ability to read Not_Mafia, which I am not confident in.

[Radical Rat]

I'm town

Who isn't?

[Radical Rat]

I'd prefer to divulge either Not_Mafia or Vivax. MAYBE Bellaphant.

I'm pretty comfortable on RCE, Galron, and Roden all being Town at this point though, so it'd be a waste to divulge there.

[Radical Rat]

PR should go to either Kitty or Roden. Kitty because I still want a Mafia Hunting Supersoldier, BUT it's probably too much of a risk without already having the BP rolled, and then Roden's interactions with RCE spew him as Town, so he's the least likely to accidentally be scum in my mind. Aside from myself of course, but you have only my word to go on for me, whereas Roden actually has evidence, so it's more like we'll all be able to agree on Roden.

[Radical Rat]

No it doesn't. It doesn't say anything in particular about RCE, though I personally townread him.

But the key is that Roden was pushing RCE based on the assumption that RCE knew Greeting would flip green. Obviously, neither of them knew he would flip green, since well... he didn't. In RCE's case, I think it was just poor word choice leading to a miscommunication. In Roden's case however, making a push like that while knowing that Greeting is scum would mean knowing the push would be negated on the flip. And it's for that reason that I expressed suspicion on Roden pre-flip... if Greeting HAD flipped green, it would have looked like a scummy push based on an obvious miscommunication. Greeting flipping red though means the push was overwhelmingly likely to have been genuine, and Roden overwhelmingly likely to have been uninformed.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Vivax

Divulging myself has no drawbacks for either town or mafia

It absolutely does, but I'll call your bluff.
VOTE: Divulge Vivax

E-1, adjusted for Miltank presence

[Radical Rat]

HEAL: Roden

Also willing to heal Kitty again if we're feeling spicy, but Roden's the safe play as outlined earlier.

[Radical Rat]

HEAL: roden

Shit not paying attention

HURT: roden[/rodenHURT:

HURT: roden

????

[Radical Rat]

Funny how the hurt tags break differently since they aren't overridden by the quotes.

Regardless though, What "not paying attention" is there here? Did you think Roden was someone else?

[Radical Rat]

Fair enough then

[Radical Rat]

Kitty/Roden, anything useful?

[Radical Rat]

find it interesting that scum decided to yeet vivax over the new PR or the cleared PR.

Really? It's pretty much exactly what I expected to happen

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: depart
VOTE: malcom
HEAL: galron

No

[Radical Rat]

I do think it's time we start departing instead of divulging, but we shouldn't be rushing into anything.

I don't really see where the RCE scumreads were coming from, he pretty consistently looked Townie to me.

[Radical Rat]

find it interesting that scum decided to yeet vivax over the new PR or the cleared PR.

Really? It's pretty much exactly what I expected to happen

why's that?

They succeeded in killing Enchant, which means Kitty can't be a protective role. Kitty CAN still be either BP or PGO though, plus there's the possibility that Roden's a Doctor and Kitty would be the higher priority protection target. Then if Roden isn't a Doctor, he could possibly be BP or PGO.

The only way a kill on Vivax fails is if scum get blocked (in which case the target is irrelevant), or if Roden is JK and picks Vivax so as not to interfere with Kitty's PR.

Since Vivax is the least likely to fail, Mafia kill there

[Radical Rat]

Roden isn't mech cleared, but as I've explained earlier, I don't think Roden's argument with RCE makes sense if Roden knows Greeting flips red, so he's not in my PoE.

[Radical Rat]

What is it with this game and everyone just blindly sheeping each other? Does no one have any actual reasoning why Malcolm is scum beyond being sussed by Vivax?

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Depart

Thought I already did that.

@Penguin
For me, I think at this point we're pretty much stuck with whoever we divulge dying if they're Town. And since it's the only play that makes sense for scum, we can't really do NKA on it. So I'd rather force them to make their own decisions at this point. Also I'm kinda bored and want the game to move a bit quicker.

[Radical Rat]

I don't think the evens thing is THAT big a deal. Besides, with Not_Mafia around, it might as well be odds!

[Radical Rat]

HEAL: KittyTacky

I will finally have my Mafia Hunting Supersoldier...

[Radical Rat]

Am I hammered? Been massively behind with this game and have struggled to catch up, apologies. I'm town but if that's me out probably not much I can say. If not out I'll do more to catch up over the weekend.

Sorry to say you are in fact dead.
Day's not over yet though, so I'd say try to keep playing in the meantime, get those last reads out, etc.

[Radical Rat]

Rad doesn't Kitty stand more of a chance of dying as a double PR? Shouldn't we spread it?

No. The more we spread, the more we risk giving scum a PR.

As it is now, we don't know what Kitty or Roden are, and neither do scum. Which means there's a 2/12 chance either of them individually have BP or PGO, in which case scum attacking would be a Good thing, and a separate 1/12 chance for Roden to be Doctor, plus a rapidly narrowing pool of potential targets for JK/Roleblocker.

Individually, these are all fairly unlikely, but while I haven't sat down and actually run the numbers, I think the odds of at least one working out are decent.

And then if none of those roles are currently in play, we have a 1/12 chance of getting Doctor if we pick not-Kitty, but a 2/12 chance of BP or PGO if we do pick Kitty. And then JK/Roleblocker are irrelevant who receives them.

[Radical Rat]

Y'know, I hadn't actually considered that and probably should have.

Is it worth partial claiming here? Because we don't know for certain that either Kitty or you doesn't have PGO right now, and it's important that we continue to not know that. We also don't know whether you're a Doctor or not. If you ARE a Doctor, I'd say we just give you the second PR and hope for the best. If you AREN'T a Doctor, we give it to Kitty and also hope for the best.

But also that involves telling scum whether a Doctor currently exists... no matter what there COULD be a Doctor in play tonight, so scum has to account for that, but the decision gets easier if scum knows who a Doctor is, if any.

[Radical Rat]

No matter what though, don't claim any more than Yes/No to Doctor, if we decide the claim is worth it.

[Radical Rat]

Right, that'd already been determined for exactly that reason.

Question is whether it's worth having Roden claim Doctor/Not Doctor. I think it is, but the risk is great enough to warrant discussion

[Radical Rat]

What the fuck

Literally in the middle of talking about why we shouldn't be just healing random people. Galron stole the PR by healing himself early and apparently we're just all not gonna question anything and sheep each other.

I was at least townreading Galron before this, so hopefully it works out, but same deal with Malcolm, who I still do townread but everyone just decided to pile on with no explanation or discussion. If it works, it works, but it's this kind of lazy, complacent play that scum can influence most easily, and I implore whoever is left tomorrow to actually TALK about things

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Depart

Bella, give me one good reason I shouldn't vote you right now

[Radical Rat]

I'll revert back to divulge here. I don't know why we'd depart in xlo.

VOTE: divulge[/divulge]

Because if we don't we just lose? Unless you want to just put all your eggs in the basket of hoping we get a PR that can block the kill, and that it succeeds in doing so

[Radical Rat]

....everyone was on galron with less than a day and a half left, your anger feels really fake. If people were that worried, they had the option to unvote.

I wasn't on Galron, and was actively arguing against giving him the PR, and one of the "everyone" was Galron himself. So no, I couldn't have "just unvoted," and my anger is not only real, but extremely justified

[Radical Rat]

I'll revert back to divulge here. I don't know why we'd depart in xlo.

VOTE: divulge[/divulge]

Because if we don't we just lose? Unless you want to just put all your eggs in the basket of hoping we get a PR that can block the kill, and that it succeeds in doing so

This is pretty transparently scum that isn't confident they can win the vote, so want to force it to night before they can get voted out.

[Radical Rat]

I think my role will be revealed tonight

Best I can say wrt that

Only hesitation I have is this bit.

Roden, explain please, because it sure doesn't look like anything's revealed to me

[Radical Rat]

The post. I apologize for not being more considerate in my wording, but the point stands.

[Radical Rat]

I'll revert back to divulge here. I don't know why we'd depart in xlo.

VOTE: divulge[/divulge]

Because if we don't we just lose? Unless you want to just put all your eggs in the basket of hoping we get a PR that can block the kill, and that it succeeds in doing so

This post is pretty transparently coming from scum that isn't confident they can win the vote, so want to force it to night before they can get voted out.

[Radical Rat]

im here just to shitpost with not mafia.
what up

I think it would be a very funny shitpost if you bussed your partner in ELO

[Radical Rat]

I think my role will be revealed tonight

Best I can say wrt that

Only hesitation I have is this bit.

Roden, explain please, because it sure doesn't look like anything's revealed to me

I'm Bulletproof and was trying to bait the kill away from Kitty by making it seem like I would have results from my PR last night

I figured we were staying on evens and that I could get Divulged if we ended up in MELO

A selfish part of me wishes you'd claimed earlier, but this was probably the correct play actually, and makes sense why you'd be coy about claiming.

[Radical Rat]

Kitty said we should do galron yesterday, in the hood .

We talked a bit about the rce slot and how all of vivax/pp/rr on their wagon cojldnt be scum: obvs vivax has now flipped town.

If this is the case, why did you heal him?

[Radical Rat]

Because kitty did.

And if Kitty were here I'd be asking him the same question, but he isn't.

If in the hood you'd all agreed Galron was scum, why on Earth would you also decide to heal him? It doesn't make sense

[Radical Rat]

Why did Galron vote divulge when that is an auto lose

Funny you should mention this. As I already stated, it's clearly a scumplay. But in the event Galron/You WERE Town, scum would have taken the win by hammering.

And yet... Here we are. It's been a rather long time, everyone in the game has posted, and yet no one has stepped up to hammer Divulgence.

VOTE: Firebringer


Most likely partner is Bella based on how yesterday went

[Radical Rat]

Most likely partner is Bella based on how yesterday went

then shouldn't u support me 'bussing' bella?

If it came down to that, yes I probably would. Definitely won't be voting outside of you two, barring anything ridiculous happening.

But, when factoring in that I might be wrong, I think I'm less likely to be wrong about Galron literally voting for a town loss. And this is only reinforced by the lack of scum follow up.

[Radical Rat]

Here we are. It's been a rather long time, everyone in the game has posted, and yet no one has stepped up to hammer Divulgence.

This game is super inactive though. Doesn't feel like scum are coordinating much.

Also you still haven't unvoted yet, despite acknowledging it'd put us in auto loss. Why is that?

[Radical Rat]

UNVOTE:
can u even vote people right now.

Nevermind I'm just blind

[Radical Rat]

Otherwise we can assume at least one of them is scum.

feels like an attempt to get me to cross vote for radical.
which im not interested in right now.

tell me do you think other scum is bella or not because just reading last two posts its like ur open to whatever seems plausible for a conclusion in which you can vote who you like

To what end though? If Roden's scum, and you're Town, why does he care whether you vote me or not?

[Radical Rat]

It does definitely feel like scum is too nervous to make a move right now, but I don't fully understand why?

Like, if I'm right and you're scum, I'd have expected your partner to just bus you by now? Surely they can see the ship is sinking and the only chance they have is to jump. But if I'm wrong, there's no reason for there not to have been a quickhammer on either this or Divulgence. Doesn't even really need to be a "quick" hammer, scum could just drop the votes casually and still get away with it here.

So... What's the deal, where are they, what are they afraid of?

[Radical Rat]

My reads have been awful this game - I think I've been right once. I'm incredibly frustrated at how little the neighborhood was used, all I know is that kitty said she considered it a masonry - (has the other participant claimed yet?)

I think she wanted to divulge galron 'for thread health', but she was non committal about actual scum reads.

They haven't, but it's pretty obviously Not_Mafia since it's not me, Roden had to ask if anyone was alive, and Kitty apparently wanted to vote Galron despite also healing him, meaning he must have been excluded from the "masonry"

Not really sure what the point of hiding this was though, since in ELO having that kind of information is important? Especially if you agree with Kitty on it being a masonry

[Radical Rat]

i don't know why game is continuing i was town.

Well at the time you said this, you hadn't been hammered yet, so that's why game continued.

[Radical Rat]

Now though... All that's left to do is celebrate

[Radical Rat]

[Radical Rat]

HEAL: Firebringer
I think you've earned it

[Radical Rat]

Thanks for modding RH!
And thanks for playing everyone else!

I think the biggest killer for Town here was apathy, probably stemming from how long this game took, but most of the game being almost entirely absent made it easy to nudge things in the right direction near the end. In particular, had people actually fully discussed departure/divulgence yesterday, we'd probably have been screwed.

[Radical Rat]

I think the healed tpr should auto have 1 shot bp. We didn’t even get to play. Getting tpr shouldn’t be an automatic death sentence, imo. :/

Congrats scum. /MTR/RCE never dies here on my watch, Vivax either. Probably Frogs forced replacement really hurt town.

Thanks for hosting RH!

For what it's worth, I was against killing you!

Strong disagree on the auto-BP though, that would be literally impossible to win against

[Radical Rat]

By the way, I could access the scumchat past my death in the game. Not sure if this was intentional or a mod oversight. I kept quiet about it though as I wanted to know what you two were up to, and I would not use any info from it to affect the game anyway.

I had said this before in the dead thread, but if this setup is to be re-ran, the mafia team needs to be strengthened.

This is normal in my experience. You also still have access to the main thread, though of course actually posting would be very silly and get you banned very fast

[Radical Rat]

By the way, you have (expired on 2022-09-03 15:35:04) to request redactions to PTs.

No redactions from me