Open 859 - C9++ - Postgame

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Malakittens
You’re not getting away from me!

[Gamma Emerald]

Infinity sus, lowkey but also highkey like very sus.

Why?

[Gamma Emerald]

froggy seems town on page 4

[Gamma Emerald]

BBT SRing Infinity is old news

[Gamma Emerald]

BBT SRing Infinity is old news

wdym by this? any SRs btw?

BBT did the same in my first game w him
I have suspicions but not in the mood to name names yet

[Gamma Emerald]

Gonna go out on a limb and call klick town

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: klick i didn't like their reply to the lucian thing.

Can you elaborate on this?

you were a little closed to engagement in a way that seemed +scum to us. early game i'd expect town to want to engage; e.g. "here's why i think lucian here is scummy rather than overeager town" or just "i think being overexplaining in that way is +scum early on"

-idk

pedit: gamma could be scum

That's a completely valid take; I actively didn't want to elaborate fully because I wanted to keep seeing the observations I was seeing without influencing them or letting Lucian choose to play around them. So yes, I was hesitant to engage heavily there.

PEdit: holy posts

@Lucian this post feels pretty deep for Klick (I don’t exactly rate his scumgame highly)
Plus he feels like he’s trying to do his best while at limited capacity which I deem towny

[Gamma Emerald]

BBT did the same in my first game w him
I have suspicions but not in the mood to name names yet

What's this now?

ik you dislike meta but I also have zero idea what your question is actually about so look it up yourself

[Gamma Emerald]

@Lucian this post feels pretty deep for Klick (I don’t exactly rate his scumgame highly)

I can't even remember the last time I played as scum, how do you people all have a read on my abilities as a scum player?

cyrus' white flag

[Gamma Emerald]

I'll say I lean infinity town because they do seem to be earnestly trying to read me. They have a good readrate on me, so a bit disappointed they SR me but my last scumgame with them was leagues above my average performance around them.
BBT also could be town, I want to see how things develop between him and me/infinity before making that official tho

[Gamma Emerald]

what is your opinion on hiraki, furtive?

[Gamma Emerald]

okay

[Gamma Emerald]

GE, were you making a point in asking me that? I forgot in that moment that they existed, I was just thinking who seems towny.

Klick listed them tho so I wanted to try to see if you'd say something weird

[Gamma Emerald]

GE, were you making a point in asking me that? I forgot in that moment that they existed, I was just thinking who seems towny.

Klick listed them tho so I wanted to try to see if you'd say something weird

What would I say that's weird? A cringey joke about them being scum?!?

anything other than what you said specifically or something along those lines would've been interesting. Even just saying no read because no posts is more content than what you said.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: furtiveglance
the more I think about his responses to me the more his play feels like a dead fish

[Gamma Emerald]

anything other than what you said specifically or something along those lines would've been interesting. Even just saying no read because no posts is more content than what you said.

Do you get anything from me calling Hiraki scum?

you at least felt comfortable enough to make that joke, so you get a townpoint.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma Emerald, I am a dead fish apparently (according to others). Read newbie 2097 dead chat, Bell called me a blockhead and dense!

your responses to me feel pensive tho, like you don't wanna give too much away

[Gamma Emerald]

I was being half-serious there
I meant "you get a townpoint" in the same way you might say "you get a cookie".

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah furtive’s scumgame seems to be pretty dry between that and my own example of chromavalon

[Gamma Emerald]

BBT did the same in my first game w him
I have suspicions but not in the mood to name names yet

What's this now?

ik you dislike meta but I also have zero idea what your question is actually about so look it up yourself

Why is BBT voting infinity "old news" just because they did it in another game?

They just don’t seem to get along

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm glad you "followed the whole multiquote" as you say, but I don't think we need VAR on this one because I haven't committed a foul!

You kinda did? Why cast a vote on someone for pushing a townread that wasn’t that strong?

[Gamma Emerald]

what is your opinion on hiraki, furtive?

what is the purpose of this?

I think it’s painfully obvious I was fishing for content with low-quality bait

okay last point and then i'm gonna sleep on this game for the night - does anyone TR infinity?

I do

[Gamma Emerald]

Sheeping conftown onto a lim target is a severely underrated strategy and towns should do much more often than they do

People are just hesitant to vote against their own personal reads, but it's often correct to do so to achieve a fully town-influenced elimination

So yeah, I'd be down for sheeping Hiraki today as a concept.

Does Hiraki have historically good reads?

[Gamma Emerald]

Probably not
The IC would need to have solid history of hood reads or at least strong conviction

[Gamma Emerald]

Sheeping conftown onto a lim target is a severely underrated strategy and towns should do much more often than they do

People are just hesitant to vote against their own personal reads, but it's often correct to do so to achieve a fully town-influenced elimination

So yeah, I'd be down for sheeping Hiraki today as a concept.

Does Hiraki have historically good reads?

Without really knowing about Hiraki's read strength, probably better than the average D1 scum elimination rate?

Logically, an elimination decided by 100% town is on average better than an elimination decided by 10/13 or 11/13 town because the decision is entirely made by players with the town win condition. This becomes more obvious the closer to ELo you are, as evidenced by the Not Quite Normal Mtuball game that just finished

yeah, I'll buy that

[Gamma Emerald]

Why use the word 'kill'? Is that on the brain?

is that the only reason you sus Mala? some people just use "kill" to refer to eliminating someone. it might be more prominent now that the original term used is off-limits and the terminology is decentralized.

[Gamma Emerald]

Logically, an elimination decided by 100% town is on average better than an elimination decided by 10/13 or 11/13 town because the decision is entirely made by players with the town win condition. This becomes more obvious the closer to ELo you are, as evidenced by the Not Quite Normal Mtuball game that just finished

i would argue an elimination decided by multiple people bouncing ideas off of each other is far superior than one person choosing

what happened last time a plan like that was enacted was discussion happened for a while until the IC (LLD in the other game) made her choice
so as long as Hiraki doesn't hipfire early I don't mind letting him pick a lim
plus there was also discourse after the decision was made in the other game, too.

[Gamma Emerald]

be aware enchant will hammer if anyone gets to e-1

[Gamma Emerald]

This wagon feels quite gucci, like a red or purple flip will happen.

Purple = SK

[Gamma Emerald]

GE, I noticed your absence from this wagon. Does it make you nervous?

lmao nice shade attempt
I'm skeptical of it since you're leading it, and I also don't want to put it within range for enchant to hammer.
And btw if this is your response to my last post, you know DAMN WELL what it's about!

[Gamma Emerald]

THINK FURTIVE THINK!
WHY WOULD

I

TAKE NOTICE OF

YOU

TALKING ABOUT COLORS?

[Gamma Emerald]

Things are becoming clearer now. CSF/GE/Malakittens, ft. BBT/Dunnstral on drums as SK (possibly)

Feel like this needs elaboration if it's serious

It's serious, but not that elaborate. It's just who I sus.

do you have reason to sus me other than that I'm not voting CSF?

[Gamma Emerald]

THINK FURTIVE THINK!
WHY WOULD

I

TAKE NOTICE OF

YOU

TALKING ABOUT COLORS?

I do know, but I don't think you really have a point. If you think you do, you can share it with the group.

I'm going to let my votes do the talking.

as for this, I'll let Dunn/Enchant (well, really just Dunn!) determine whether more is said. I believe you that it's that way on your homesite but there's something else that makes the whole deal bothersome.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm scumreading him for multiple reasons, one of which is close to what you said, but not exactly that.

[Gamma Emerald]

it hasn't been that long jeez

I'm not being mean, I genuinely don't know because I've never seriously evaluated your read quality as town

[Gamma Emerald]

Things are becoming clearer now. CSF/GE/Malakittens, ft. BBT/Dunnstral on drums as SK (possibly)

Feel like this needs elaboration if it's serious

It's serious, but not that elaborate. It's just who I sus.

do you have reason to sus me other than that I'm not voting CSF?

You haven't mentioned CSF once - high partner equity.

For low-level scum that would be +partner equity, but I'm not low-level scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

A bit astonishing you think I would be despite my join date.

[Gamma Emerald]

I didn't mean to steal the pagetop but 100% worth.

[Gamma Emerald]

You've done it twice now.

where's that darn Steve Urkel image?!?

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah Aisa doesn't feel like she did in Terminator
I also might have some questions to compile for her

[Gamma Emerald]

Things are becoming clearer now. CSF/GE/Malakittens, ft. BBT/Dunnstral on drums as SK (possibly)

Feel like this needs elaboration if it's serious

It's serious, but not that elaborate. It's just who I sus.

do you have reason to sus me other than that I'm not voting CSF?

You haven't mentioned CSF once - high partner equity.

For low-level scum that would be +partner equity, but I'm not low-level scum.

Ok, I didn't mean to offend you, high level scum it is!

What do you actually think of CSF then? They just voted Aisa without acknowledging the wagon on them, is that towny or scummy?

I think it’s towny because she’s solving on her own vs. getting defensive. That’s my take on it.

[Gamma Emerald]

It could be argued she started pushing Aisa as a reaction to getting voted but I don’t get that feeling.

[Gamma Emerald]

The thing that sticks in my mind is them asking GE whether they would sheep them on a read - the concept of having good reads or bad reads showed a Town POV.

I don’t know exactly what this means but I like the idea of it.

[Gamma Emerald]

Extremely bad read, but the creativity of it feels genuine. So there's that I guess.

why is it bad? I see a logic to it. I want furtive to try to explain before I share it tho

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm feeling like CSF is scum.

Did you ever go into this beyond vibes?

349 is probably the most analysis I've seen from you this game. I voted you because I wasn't sure what your reads were or if you had any, which is instant partner equity with everyone. Then there's vote hopping which I don't really like in general. And when a few of my townreads hopped on, it made me think we'd all voted mafia together.

yeah that's fair

I've been kind of out of it these last 2 days so I haven't gotten my head into the game. so I can kind of understand the wagon on me, if that makes sense

p-edit: I don't remember townreading GE like super early, but I do think he's town now, yeah. I don't really know how to explain it beyond "gut" - like these posts just make me think he's town: 302, 303

Those are two of their scummiest posts for me. It's "wow you're trynna sus me lMaO" and *caps about something irrelevant*

You’re just pissed off, those are actually posts I probably wouldn’t make as scum, notably the “think furtive think” post

[Gamma Emerald]

…
…
…

[Gamma Emerald]

Are you an alt, Lucian?

[Gamma Emerald]

Will get around to talking about Dunn's posts pinging me tomorrow.

I would also support an Aisa wagon happening. I don't like the fact that she seem to have a lot of townreads but is seemingly avoiding having scumreads.

I'd also like BBT's take on that slot.

What's scummy about that?

I don't know anymore. Don't hammer before I come back, I'm going to bed.

? CSF's not particularly at risk of being hammered?

CSF was at 5 votes, and Enchant likes to hammer without warning as you saw when CSF got hammered as leader in Terminator. So CSF was at “Enchant-1”.

[Gamma Emerald]

A bit astonishing you think I would be despite my join date.

i think you're town here (altho i am not good at that) and i'm confused at this flex

Should I explain?

[Gamma Emerald]

Oops that’s broken

[Gamma Emerald]

Enchant can I get a run down of your playstyle?

Depending on mood and interest.

Ah. Sorry that you didn’t roll SK
Care to hop on a wagon?

It's not really about SK.

Need to think before i vote.

:/

[Gamma Emerald]

THINK FURTIVE THINK!
WHY WOULD

I

TAKE NOTICE OF

YOU

TALKING ABOUT COLORS?

I do know, but I don't think you really have a point. If you think you do, you can share it with the group.

I'm going to let my votes do the talking.

as for this, I'll let Dunn/Enchant (well, really just Dunn!) determine whether more is said. I believe you that it's that way on your homesite but there's something else that makes the whole deal bothersome.

It sounds like getting the color would make them not a serial killer; Except that's easily fakeable, can be a genuine mistake even if they're a serial killer based on what they've said, and we don't even know if a serial killer is in the game. What is perhaps more interesting is that they seem to be accusing other players of being a serial killer instead of mafia.

So they said:

Things are becoming clearer now. CSF/GE/Malakittens, ft. BBT/Dunnstral on drums as SK (possibly)

What is the reasoning for calling BBT/myself serial killer specifically? All they've explained it with is that they think we're suspicious, but they've never made that distinction, and they never go into why they think I am suspicious either.

This doesn’t make me feel any more confident furtive is scum but it does make me think Dunn is town

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Klick

I didn't like their arguing that Hiraki should decide the elimination and that we had info to work with because I think they know better than to push for that kind of thing on day 1. We would have little to work with if we did this. Further, I don't think that there is a lot of information to solve the game with right now and am surprised that they think otherwise, and that they are creating town/scum lists this early. Finally, I didn't like their wagon vote on CSF.

This

is sketchy though. You 100% know why I am with Klick on allowing Hiraki to dictate things.

[Gamma Emerald]

This doesn’t make me feel any more confident furtive is scum but it does make me think Dunn is town

why?

It looks like he honed in on what I was thinking of
But unless he comes up with a good reason to not let the IC drive things that townping is gonna get drowned out real fast!

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t get the sense Hiraki is entirely against choosing the lim
I find it baffling you don’t know what I’m getting at given I full-on namedropped LLD earlier! Aside from that though, why does Klick “look bad”?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Dunnstral
Yeah I’m not just gonna let you play dumb.

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:
I thought Dunn had this same stance in the other game I was referencing but he actually raised no objection to letting LLD dictate the D1 vote

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Aisa
Not certain she’s scum but given she feels different to Terminator, it’s worth a fair shake

[Gamma Emerald]

I guess Aisa voting Lucian is a little weird. If they find a vote that pleases me more all will be forgiven.

this vibes weird

[Gamma Emerald]

Part of my problem with this game is that I have at least a townlean on like 5 out of 6 of the highest posters in game so far
froggo - furtive - CSF - Gamma - Klick
and it would just be too convenient if they were all town? But I haven't really found a satisfactory way to resolve this / decided who I wanna demote. It's true that 5/6 is not a terrible raw ratio - it's completely consistent with 8-9 townies out of 11 - it just feels too convenient that town would have such a disproportionate presence in thread right now.

I should also say that I have no clue how one would find an SK so every time I say "town" it should be interpreted as "town or SK".

Also I really disagree with the CSF wagon. The fact it built so quickly made me go and look for mafia on the wagon, but it's hard to know what to do. Infinity, froggo and Klick just quickvoted after one another. Maybe I'll take back my froggo townread idk

I fail to see why scum wouldn’t all be lower contribution. Positing scum have to have someone higher-activity is gambler’s fallacy.

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh, I worry about the fact I misread you in Terminator all the time. I have a notes PT (more like memes and sillyposting PT) this game and made this a couple days ago:

Spoiler: the meme I made

You just feel... really different. If you're scum this game the difference in motivation is staggering

Oh jeez. Now I have to consider whether or not someone would generate a meme in order to prove a town POV as scum.

That’s kinda why you’re not supposed to mention notes PTs in thread

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah what

[Gamma Emerald]

like pushing what seems like a utr with 3 days left until the deadline is not super productive

What UTR is being pushed, and by whom?

[Gamma Emerald]

:/

[Gamma Emerald]

oh i was talking about the part where bbt was pushing froggo

I don't feel like froggo is UTR at least in that I kinda could see him as scum rn
I also don't really vibe w either of BBT or furtive, enchant is also just there
The problem is I feel not-good about so many slots that I don't feel any particular lean on who should get voted out today

[Gamma Emerald]

ig I'd vote to kill furtive just because I feel like his SR on me is barely substantiated to the point it just feels like OMGUS

[Gamma Emerald]

100% town:
Gamma Emerald
Hiraki

prob town:
Cat Scratch Fever
Aisa
Klick
Dunnstral

seems okay:
Infinity 324
froggodoggo

eh...:
Lucian
BlueBloodedToffee
Malakittens

distrust:
furtiveglance
Enchant

put together this list in like 2 minutes

[Gamma Emerald]

eh is "idk what to feel here rn"

[Gamma Emerald]

also, any more useful input you got, or do you just wanna pop in and shade me?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: furtive

[Gamma Emerald]

you could start by actually backing up your SR on me, all I remember is vague BS tying me to CSF

[Gamma Emerald]

boop

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma why do you like csf?

furtive feels towny to me tbh. i'm still not sure why he pushes BBT there so hard as scum.

not really into the enchant lim, the "think before i vote" thing is kinda meaningless to me and limming a contentless slot on d1 doesn't seem great. i'll vote there at deadline obviously though

interactions around Aisa and also ig Enchant
I feel like she's actually trying to follow up on recent meta to form her reads in this game
ig it could be faked but idk how much effort CSF!scum puts into fake town thought process as scum, I would wager rather little given in Terminator she got yeeted mostly because after getting UTR by bussing Koba, she just kinda sat around while the rest of the group tried to solve the rest of the game

[Gamma Emerald]

you could start by actually backing up your SR on me, all I remember is vague BS tying me to CSF

How well evidenced does it really need to be? All you said on me was that I was 'dry' and 'a dead fish'. You didn't have a read on CSF for a while, then you townread them and I scumread them so that's one reason. Apart from that, it's just that I've seen scum play like you're playing, and I don't like your reads at all.

so to break this down

• OMGUS
  
• disagreement on reads
  
• vague platitutde about how scum play
  
• disagreement on reads again

[Gamma Emerald]

It strikes me as odd, yes

how?????

[Gamma Emerald]

Errr is that first sentence related to the Mala vote?

No

It strikes me as odd, yes

how?????

Because it is odd.

what's odd is your lack of ability to accept that someone would shitpost in a thread on they are posting in

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm pretty sure I've posted memes in a notes PT before
plus; that meme is technically notes as it's a part of Aisa's thought process
stop being a boomer

[Gamma Emerald]

Here’s the thing: almost no one has matching reads in a game, so does that means everyone has differing alignment? If not, then difference in reads isn’t a good scum tell. I would honestly go so far as to posit an inverse position, that closely matching reads are scummy.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not sure how you managed to twist this into me being old and out of touch, but no the vast majority of players do not do this.

whatever
What even is the relevance of this? Are you trying to assert Aisa is scum who posted that meme in the scum PT? That’s like the only tangible thought process I can come up with that isn’t you just being nitpicky.

[Gamma Emerald]

Not really, I just dislike it

[Gamma Emerald]

Is Aisa claiming that they have a pt where they post reaction images but nobody else is in it?

This was not in response to any question. Why did you post this?

[Gamma Emerald]

Then why aren’t you trying to not die

Why you want to kill me at first place bruh

I think a part of it is the IC sus you

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Enchant

That's E-1.

Time to claim.

>:(

Oh cool they claimed Doc

what is this reaction

[Gamma Emerald]

My idea of something both fun and useful in this game is not getting into an argument about the semantics of 'shading' when it's really clear that I'm saying I think furtive!scum barely interacts with his partners and puts them at null-scum, which would fit if he was scum with you.

Especially not useful as I don't really think furtive is scum here.

I'm gonna put you in null/scum now.

what for?

[Gamma Emerald]

oh wait nvm

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Klick is town for doubting the claim so hard, I think mafia would approach it more like froggo is doing.

okay yeah that other thing was def a joke it just took a second to realize it

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: froggodoggo
I think this is worth trying
I wasn't vibing w him earlier and the reaction to enchant's run-up and claim seems waffly in the wrong way

[Gamma Emerald]

Malcolm. I'll take that as a compliment.

I don't really talk about my plurality in mafia games because of fear that someone will attempt to exploit it in-game but Malcolm is the name of one of my headmates/alters

[Gamma Emerald]

ik, just felt like adding that

[Gamma Emerald]

hrrm

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: froggodoggo
I think this is worth trying
I wasn't vibing w him earlier and the reaction to enchant's run-up and claim seems waffly in the wrong way

Explain a bit more why froggo's reaction to Enchant's wagon is bad? I'm not seeing it at all

It’s not so bad following explanation but I still feel like something is off about it
Like, the initial thought was that it felt like he was calling the wagon bad but still being cool about the claim occurring
UNVOTE: because I at least think the explanation goes against my initial feeling there

[Gamma Emerald]

It would also be extremely beneficial for scum!Froggo to show some hesitancy before hammering a Doc claim, no?

This is valid

[Gamma Emerald]

Hot take, scum doesn't usually say "goddamn, I wish I had done this scummy thing when I had the chance". I'm guessing froggo is Town.

Examples? I probably believe you and think you’re right but they wouldn’t hurt if you got ‘em

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Aisa and GE both have sus reactions to this claim, whatever it flips.

If no reaction is a scummy reaction then ig my reaction was scummy
If that’s not what you meant then you’re pulling things out of your ass

As for Aisa, I don’t like the essentially nothing that she said about the claim itself but I feel like she’s been towny enough before that to still be a TR.

[Gamma Emerald]

If we ignore Enchant for a second, Aisa/Dunnstral have gone down in my reads and BBT/CSF have gone up.

Why has Dunnstral gone down?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Aisa and GE both have sus reactions to this claim, whatever it flips.

If no reaction is a scummy reaction then ig my reaction was scummy
If that’s not what you meant then you’re pulling things out of your ass

As for Aisa, I don’t like the essentially nothing that she said about the claim itself but I feel like she’s been towny enough before that to still be a TR.

Yeah, you voted someone else (froggo). You're staying off but not really saying to unvote Enchant either.

Okay that’s actually kinda fair. Personally a Doctor claim doesn’t do much for me, protectives are probably the most common/most preferred scum fakeclaims for fishing counterclaims. Had it been a 1-shot Doctor claim I would give it a pass since that can only exist alongside a Doctor so it’s confirmable without killing or using an investigate on it.

[Gamma Emerald]

who fills the gap if Encanto is town?

[Gamma Emerald]

You, Dunnstral, Malakittens, Froggo and even Aisa.

>:/

[Gamma Emerald]

The fact that Enchant seems to have zero desire to call anyone scum as he's being dragged onto the gallows is making me have even more hope a scum flip is happening.

I agree w this
Who hasn't given thoughts post-claim still?

[Gamma Emerald]

enchant needs to die and i think a night phase would help me get more engaged regardless

i need to review what gamma said about csf

also i need to see if i need to review my furtive read. vibes feel very towny but a systemmate is telling me that an enchant red flip would make furtive look bad

-ash

do you want to have day go on so you can finish those reviews or can they be done in the night phase?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think just Mala

why didn't you include her in your post earlier?

[Gamma Emerald]

okay

[Gamma Emerald]

I'll be around so if anyone has any Q's for me, let me know; otherwise I'm likely to just hang out and wait for the Enchant flip.

this looks like being ready for hammer, so once infinity responds I will drop the E-1 if I'm on

[Gamma Emerald]

Pretty much

everyone

is okay with an Enchant lim. I still think Enchant is scum based on his play alone, which means that scum are at the very least okay with letting the lim go through. I think it'll be important to reread everyone's reasons for being okay with the lim after the flip

I think the doctor claim was also not meant to last long if Enchant was scum

[Gamma Emerald]

I wasn't able to find the time to re-eval during the night phase but will get to it tmrw. Btw im town and mala kill is annoying but not surprising considering ppl here on this site seem to be good at making kills.

???
weird af post

[Gamma Emerald]

mala was a low content slot, so I for one don't mind the kill

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeahhh Mafia don't kill Mala over Hiraki, ever.

I'd claim it if Roleblocker, but not if Doctor.

Mafia was likely fishing for doc with Enchant’s claim imo

[Gamma Emerald]

The only stances Mala had were
>kill enchant
>Don’t kill Gamma
>don’t kill CSF
ig if CSF is town/SK it’s possible Mala was killed by mafia for low-info and to snuff out some solid reads

[Gamma Emerald]

The only stances Mala had were
>kill enchant
>Don’t kill Gamma
>don’t kill CSF
ig if CSF is town/SK it’s possible Mala was killed by mafia for low-info and to snuff out some solid reads

But why get rid of the potential miselim? If they want to avoid a Doctor I feel like you're probably the next most sensible kill after Hiraki

Thanks for the vote of confidence? I think the only way I die w this line of logic is if furtive is scum tho.

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait there have to be 2 Mafia left with a RB flip don't there
Massclaim bad idea then

How do you know this by the way?

There’s no 2-mafia setups with RB, only GF
The scum team has to be 2 Goons+RB or Goon+RB+GF

[Gamma Emerald]

Honestly tho, why does scum even need to PR hunt in this setup? We just sent a doc claim home. PR claims don't save you.

Scum know at least moderate power needs to exist based on having a roleblocker.

[Gamma Emerald]

During the Night, the two people that I was thinking of possibly being scum are Klick and Aisa.

Klick for that one post I talked about yesterday, and for the weird jump on the Doctor claim after being meh on Enchant. @Klick, why did you think the Doc claim is scummy?

Aisa for not really scumreading Enchant, basically. From what I gathered, I get the idea that Enchant is different this game than in Terminator, so the fact that Aisa did not call that out is concerning.

@CSF, other than the weird stance around voting, was Enchant a lot different in this game and in Terminator? I got the feeling he was, but I could be biasing myself.

I feel like he was
Enchant has a bit of a tone tell that’s I’ve discovered

[Gamma Emerald]

The only stances Mala had were
>kill enchant
>Don’t kill Gamma
>don’t kill CSF
ig if CSF is town/SK it’s possible Mala was killed by mafia for low-info and to snuff out some solid reads

Oh you smoked Mala to say they TRed you? Nice one, I TR you now

I do commonly post my real reasons for killing when I’m scum but I’m not scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

[Infinity, Gamma, Dunn, Froggo]

Last two scum are here.

I don’t vibe w this

[Gamma Emerald]

Mala was killed because she was town from Enchant flip btw

Maybe not. Enchant vote was from RVS

??? This doesn’t look right from my reading of Mala ISO

[Gamma Emerald]

there's a link in the first post

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't feel like Dunn is scum here
after the initial kerfuffle about his unwillingness to following the IC, he's seemed town across the board

[Gamma Emerald]

he feels more "shadowy" as scum, I'd say. Here he feels in the light for sure.

[Gamma Emerald]

:/

[Gamma Emerald]

why wouldn't I be

[Gamma Emerald]

I want to make my vote useful in the meantime:

VOTE: Infinity

Interested in them explaining their progression on Enchant and the re-evals they said they'll do. Helps that I townread both the people voting them currently.

This feels wack. You’re interested in Infinity’s re-evals but also feel okay voting them?

[Gamma Emerald]

It does feel like you’re cool w Infinity dying tho in spite of wanting the re-eval content

[Gamma Emerald]

The mention of TRing the people voting Infinity
It makes it seem like you’re already on board eliminating there.

[Gamma Emerald]

I read everything but there's a lot of fluff. Lucian is still townie but is incorrect (which is fine) but Dunn is getting more red. Everyone else is about the same.

Why is Dunn getting more red?
I don’t feel like this table would provoke him to try to look town early so I feel good about my initial TR there

[Gamma Emerald]

on thinking about gamestate implications I feel more okay w the infinity wagon
I already was not really much opposed to it but I would actually consider putting my vote there now

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: furtive
ngl I had a subconscious idea that furtive was SK, his solves continually include it for some odd reason

[Gamma Emerald]

Hehe sorry to change votes right after the VC but i'm hopping back on Infinity. I don't feel great voting with both infinity and gamma and I'm getting scumvibes from gamma rn. Voting furtive because you get SK vibes from them is weird. Sussing furtive because they include SK in their solve is also weird. I dont think either reasoning is sufficient enough to mean anything.

VOTE: Infinity

>:/
Why even change votes in the first place?

[Gamma Emerald]

Hehe sorry to change votes right after the VC but i'm hopping back on Infinity. I don't feel great voting with both infinity and gamma and I'm getting scumvibes from gamma rn. Voting furtive because you get SK vibes from them is weird. Sussing furtive because they include SK in their solve is also weird. I dont think either reasoning is sufficient enough to mean anything.

VOTE: Infinity

>:/
Why even change votes in the first place?

cuz i didnt actually read just saw furtive votes and got excited

sus tbh

[Gamma Emerald]

Up!

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ll probably vote Infinity later, I just wanted to air out that suspicion since it was at the front for me att

[Gamma Emerald]

I’d only really feel okay voting there once I’m ready for the day to end

[Gamma Emerald]

I should probably 'give my thoughts on the main wagon' since I scumread someone for not doing that D1.

Infinity is sus, don't get me wrong. I feel like scum!Infinity didn't have to go for me though, froggo was an easier pivot (maybe I misread the room on that one).

So I'm basically thinking either froggo/Infinity are paired, or Infinity is town.

ngl that would explain froggo’s jump on you.

[Gamma Emerald]

In terms of what I wanna see, Hiraki’s thoughts is a leading thought, I’d also like some more thought from Dunn as he actually feels rather reactive currently, and Aisa I don’t feel like has been v present today.

[Gamma Emerald]

I should probably 'give my thoughts on the main wagon' since I scumread someone for not doing that D1.

Infinity is sus, don't get me wrong. I feel like scum!Infinity didn't have to go for me though, froggo was an easier pivot (maybe I misread the room on that one).

So I'm basically thinking either froggo/Infinity are paired, or Infinity is town.

ngl that would explain froggo’s jump on you.

Oh you just agreed with me? But then I sussed YOU!

Oml
Idk what alignment you are but you are the most disingenuous person I have ever come in contact with. Everything you post feels fake!

[Gamma Emerald]

But like, I was genuinely confused at wtf frog was doing, so your theory actually put out a logic to something I found illogical. So I feel kinda needlessly attacked rn. Why tf the need to “pay it forward”? Feels more like throwing shade hoping something sticks.

[Gamma Emerald]

So you did sus me just to turnabout-fair-play with Froggy. Yeah that’s a normal thing to do. /s
I’m reluctant cos Infinity is my friend and I don’t wanna just cut them off without giving them a chance
I feel like I should be able to read them well? Idr much times they’ve been scum against me tho, it’s more often been the other way round

[Gamma Emerald]

"Taking obvious jokey seriously" now, too.

froggo, how much mafia experience do you have?

i couldn't give you a number but like, a lot. i think all of these "scum pings" just come from me not being used to forum and not knowing anyone here. lemme breathe

VOTE: froggo

Infinity why did ur slot vote me earlier. i don't want to let that go unexplained.

the whole "i'm new and i'm flustered because i'm being pressured" is >rand scum.

-ash

ngl this feels on point with stuff I’ve seen and I would definitely pursue it further if infinity is flipped as town

[Gamma Emerald]

Because the town reads were based on weak sauce.

Reeks of TMI, you know?

It's also a very LAMIST approach

eheh with this and your sig i can't tell we're not gonna get along

-ash

To punctuate this, a while back Infinity had a sig that said a bunch of low-level “scumtells” didn’t actually work
So the beef with the buzzword-heavy hunting BBT was engaging in makes sense

[Gamma Emerald]

This doesn’t make me feel any more confident furtive is scum but it does make me think Dunn is town

why?

This reminds me that part of my Dunn TR is him reacting as I would have hoped to me pressing furtive on using specific colors for specific alignments, since furtive got caught on that in Chromavalon

[Gamma Emerald]

Although based on that wagon on me that got to e-2, I'd be willing to hop on infinity

-_- do you really think you've been towny enough to say this

Did you review my CSF read? I don’t see a conclusion on that.

[Gamma Emerald]

this is probably not super relevant now, because i attribute a lot of the pressure on enchant to csf, but i promised to do it so

by play i really don't feel she's very towny even after looking over terminator. like i just don't agree that she was putting that much effort into looking town this game.

-_-

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma why do you like csf?

furtive feels towny to me tbh. i'm still not sure why he pushes BBT there so hard as scum.

not really into the enchant lim, the "think before i vote" thing is kinda meaningless to me and limming a contentless slot on d1 doesn't seem great. i'll vote there at deadline obviously though

interactions around Aisa and also ig Enchant
I feel like she's actually trying to follow up on recent meta to form her reads in this game
ig it could be faked but idk how much effort CSF!scum puts into fake town thought process as scum, I would wager rather little given in Terminator she got yeeted mostly because after getting UTR by bussing Koba, she just kinda sat around while the rest of the group tried to solve the rest of the game

This doesn’t really mesh w what Infinity seemed to think I was TR CSF for

[Gamma Emerald]

Also furtive’s D1 solve seems wack af in retrospect

[Gamma Emerald]

But it got you voted out

[Gamma Emerald]

Ugh, okay. 1116 is giving me bad vibes. It's like scum!Infinity was obviously angling towards voting furtive, and was looking for a trigger to vote furtive to make their vote seem more natural and Townie. Except the trigger doesn't make sense because "lol I'm softing SK" is a post that's obviously a joke because it's doesn't make sense from either Town or scum. So reading "how does that come from Town" feels disingenuous.

I do think furtive has pretty bad associates with Enchant, but they seem so shitposty and carefree and just doing their thing that I don't think they're the most likely scum here.

@furtive, have you ever elaborated on your Dunn read/vote? If not, can you?

“Shitposty and carefree” in not how I’d describe furtive rn

[Gamma Emerald]

1196 is making me doubt my old townread on froggo even further, so consider him back on my list of suspects I guess.

Town: CSF, furtive, Gamma, BBT, Hiraki
Town-ish?: Dunn, Aisa
PoE: Infinity, Klick, froggo

The recent few posts from Aisa seemed alright.

Pedit: you're welcome!

Can you move me down to Town-ish? I don't want to be nightkilled.

vrej

[Gamma Emerald]

Not sure if I'm following what you're putting down.

he has a pretty lowkey scumgame early except for games where the playerlist's average skill level dictates increased effort

[Gamma Emerald]

This doesn’t really mesh w what Infinity seemed to think I was TR CSF for

oh, i guess talk more about that then? (if you think it's important)

My idea is that meta-reliant players, like myself, tend to refer back to just-finished games to update reads. It seems like CSF is that kind of player and was doing so here. If CSF is scum here, that seems like extra effort to produce fake reads that based on Terminator, I don’t think she bothers with.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: froggo
Chesnaught used Hammer Arm!
It’s super effective!
Greninja fainted!

[Gamma Emerald]

well that’s slightly awkward

[Gamma Emerald]

[...]
It can't be TTT on the current circumstances unless doctor was successful night 1 and mafia decided to no kill tonight. Both of these seem pretty unlikely to me but again - not great at this stuff. In all cases, the current setup should be that the cop is currently useless because all last 3 X's have godfathers in them assuming we are not in MVDDTTT.
[...]

As you say - this argument relies on Klick not being SK
So:
EITHER Klick is 1-shot vig, shot Dunn tonight, and the night kill pattern seems to indicate no SK,
OR Klick is SK and something happened to either the SK or mafia kill night 1. Which is perhaps unlikely but not impossible.

Further, the probability of there being a 1-shot vig at the moment is ~38%. The probability of there existing an SK is ~50% ish, maybe a bit lower but I’m not going to do the full math. So it’s far from a foregone conclusion that Klick is not SK.

Spoiler: Derivation of 38%

Setup is mechanically conformed to be DDM XXXX and there is exactly one M.
So there is a 1/9 chance of a particular X being a V.
So the chance of there being at least one V is 1-(8/9)^4=38%.

why exactly 1 M?

[Gamma Emerald]

Also we either have DD or DDDD wrt doctor roles because froggo flipped one shot doc

[Gamma Emerald]

MMM could exist I believe (pretty sure that’s 2 masons + IC)

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm like 99% sure Dunn wasn't bussing based on his response to the idea of letting Hiraki dictate the elimination

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm like 99% sure Dunn wasn't bussing based on his response to the idea of letting Hiraki dictate the elimination

Wasn't bussing when? The people he's voted are two flipped Town and throwing-if-groupscum Klick.

Okay well at least I was correct about that
In the previous game I was basing my Dunn read on, he bussed rather strongly and as such was down for when the IC called for the head of his scum partner

[Gamma Emerald]

Sigh.

Conf bias is a thing huh.

You wanna engage with anything else I have said or just cherry pick? Have you checked the interaction between Dunn/Frog and Dunn/Infinity to see if what you're saying is actually true?

This response feels weird

[Gamma Emerald]

Idk, I feel like your singular focus on SRing Infinity this entire game makes calling someone else confbiased a bit rich

[Gamma Emerald]

Thought you were SRing them some D1 as well

[Gamma Emerald]

ISO Dunn and look at his interactions around Infinity.

Specifically D2 when I am speaking to him about whether Froggo/Infinity can be scum together.

Notice how he agrees with my push on Infinity, thinks Infinity could be scum, but ends up voting Froggo.

Then notice that Dunn barely interacts with Infinity throughout the entire game.

It's Infinity.

The problem I have here is

Substitute Infinity for froggo

Literally the only difference is that Dunn put a vote on froggo but not Infinity

I have read Dunn's interactions with Infinity, and I have read Infinity in isolation, and I am not convinced that Infinity is scum. I'm asking for more evidence than 'Dunn voted froggo but not Infinity' and I'm not seeing anything.

Like you can continue to insinuate that I'm not reading your posts or the right stuff or whatever but you are trying to show that something is obvious and I'm not seeing it.

actually this makes me think BBT might be right

[Gamma Emerald]

Aisa
Gamma
Infinity
CatScratchFever
BBT

lmk if i forgot someone

Looks like I’m next
Vanilla Townie

[Gamma Emerald]

Good talk.

I'm thinking it's between Infinity and Aisa. Gamma would be my third pick, but I don't think that is very likely.

Why Aisa?

[Gamma Emerald]

Maybe we come back to it tomorrow though?

I’d say come back to it if there’s a kill in the VT claims and it’s not a doc flip

[Gamma Emerald]

???
Why not solve anyway?

[Gamma Emerald]

-_-

[Gamma Emerald]

This game feels too easy if it’s Infinity
I also doubt it’s Aisa

I think my gut call would be that Lucian is final groupscun

[Gamma Emerald]

We're either in dddmvtt without sk

or ddmvttt with an sk

So whether we can believe both depends on whether we believe there's a sk

I think n1 suggests sk so...

ddd is impossible as there wouldn't be a one shot doc
it's either ddmvttt or ddddmvt
which means there's 100% an SK at this point

[Gamma Emerald]

assuming there is an SK, whoever is fakeclaiming (presuming that's the case) likely shot Lucian N1
I'm gonna figure SK wouldn't no-kill after scum got yeeted D1, they would need to get town numbers down so they have a shot at winning

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually I'd like to see a plausible explanation from anyone for either Infinity or Aisa fakeclaiming Doctor today as scum.

I feel like it could have been a last-ditch saving throw from Infinity
Aisa I don't feel like makes sense as scum fakeclaiming

[Gamma Emerald]

tbf I don't think whoever is the true doc makes it past tonight assuming all possible kills last night were attempted
since infinity and aisa claimed different n2 targets, unless a crosskill happened, a kill was stopped
whichever scum did the stopped kill knows who they targeted last night so they know who is legitimate in this scenario

[Gamma Emerald]

here's an idea I had
if we think there's a shot both claims are legit, that's when we should elim elsewhere, and they should protect each other going forward I think. A doc loop could only be broken by mafia and SK killing the same target, which would be very unlikely.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm ignoring the possibility of them both being Town because in that case, fuck this game.

Look at how both Infinity and Aisa have been playing after their claims. Who strikes you as more likely to be scum there?

Yeah I vastly dislike this
This feels like his main concern is avoiding a Doc loop.That would be why his reason for disliking the plan Klick came up with.
VOTE: Lucian

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma

lmao

[Gamma Emerald]

...huh. Mafia could have hit Gamma N1 I suppose

What team would shoot me? Pretty sure I had called Dunn town a couple times by then.

[Gamma Emerald]

This feels like his main concern is avoiding a Doc loop

I'm sorry, what. Unless your argument is that I'm Mafia, I don't even

know

whether we have a Doc loop right now. (Fun fact, it's likely we don't, because 2.7% is not very likely.)

If your argument is that I am Mafia... Then me being stuck in final 3 with Infinity and Aisa would be a wet dream. It is very likely the paranoia would set in and they'd vote each other. 90+% chance one of them is scum. I'd jump on the idea of a Doc loop here.

if you're mafia and both doc claims are town, hitting SK means docs have a good chance of just protecting each other for the rest of the game, creating slots that could only be removed via elim, which would probably not go so well for you I'd say
Also it's incredibly sus you objected to Klick's plan only to naked vote me right after.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think if y'all hadn't turned on each other before then there'd be zero chance of it happening atp

[Gamma Emerald]

if you're mafia and both doc claims are town

Who do you think is SK here, Gamma?

Feel like it’s BBT
Lesser chance of you being it imo but it exists

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah that was some insane doc saves