Open 854 | Eurybia's Curse | Game Over!

[skitter30]

is Meuh french?

I mean i guess i'd vote her if it was between faker and me, but i'm not convinced she's scum, and i didnt find your vc compelling

If anything, i think vca points to meuh

[skitter30]

Ahhhh sorry idk how the quote there >.>

Was meant to be a response ro andante

[skitter30]

Big oof >.>

[skitter30]

Eh there is some chill stuff but i would say most is game-related

Ur kinda out of sync with the other conftown tho

[skitter30]

ok, but then why did all of the next people saying "I'd vote pav" become conf towns? like, why not include skitter with those?

You realizd that if i were scum, and had control over who became conftowned, i a would be aware of such optics, right?

And, again, that i could have just not started said wagon, and could have hopped off fairly easily?

[skitter30]

am vaguely frustrated that Isis is shoving her.

Tell me abt it

[skitter30]

hmm ok, so if she's town, Pav went over with 0 maf on that wagon? like, I know it's not beneficial AT ALL for maf to lim one of themselves early.. hmm maybe just voting off wagon would work..

Why are we all glossing over meuh again?

[skitter30]

Feel better titus

[skitter30]

At the time I felt like this post was intentional repositioning, because she was previously healing me and Isis, was voting Fruit, and had recently voted Pav, but now seemed to be trying to realign herself. Looking back now, though, I can see how it would track for the most part, the one issue to me is the Fruit read. It really makes it strange to me that she would vote Fruit over Pav earlier, only to townread him once there wasn't any need for a counterwagon because we were doing the town leader thing.

I actually found that post to be quite odd and alarming - the reads didnt track with like anything ahe had posted prior, and there had recently been some mild suspicion of gl iirc, so ut read to me as another attempt to get a diff wagon going

[skitter30]

Faker i'm not really convinced coral is mafia tbh

[skitter30]

Fwiw i'm also a little confused why you dropped me to vote cakez

[skitter30]

Fwiw i'm also a little confused why you dropped me to vote cakez

Cakez has partner equity with like everyone, you don't

Uh who do i not have partner equity with and why is thay the determining factor on who to vote for?

[skitter30]

Dont a lot of people think i have equity with marci? (And even faker iirc?) Why dont you

[skitter30]

Why dont i have equity with marci or faker?

[skitter30]

how do you forget that skitter hard derailed gamma like twice >.>

I like vaguely remember she was fierce about Gamma but it's all kinda murky in my mind

>.>
Like whenever i talked abt marci/pav i almost nearly spoke abt gamma in the same breath

[skitter30]

I'm pretty attached to the skitter scum world

You should maybe try to revisit that

[skitter30]

I literally wrote 'marci/pav/gamma/tuf' in some order

[skitter30]

I'm trying to understand how you're viewing my interactions with marci and gamma/faker

Since i spent most of day1 defending gamma
And day2 lumping them together in the same group

But neither of those factors seem to be influencing how you're reading these interactions

But good night!!!

[skitter30]

>.>

[skitter30]

i still favor the concept of eliminating outside of meuh/skitter

i don't think this is a good idea

[skitter30]

it's just going to propogate to tomorrow without resolving anything

[skitter30]

if we flip, say, town-marci today (whatever for illustrative purposes)
you actually think meuh escapes in the night?

pedit i don't understand your question

[skitter30]

why do u think we'd flip meuh tomorrow?
it's not happening today ...

[skitter30]

Why are you extremely uncomfortable with convincing everyone to lim meuh and spare you and instantly winning the game d2 but very comfortable with that happening d1 like???

i don't know what this post means like at all, or how it aligns with my actions or what's happened in this game

[skitter30]

i mean sure, cuz i think she's scum and i want to flip her
i don't know why pushing off the me/meuh thing would be beneficial for the game in any way

[skitter30]

Idk maybe asking people "do you agree with flipping {inside,outside} {group that includes you}" is a pretty bad exercise in general that is unlikely to be game advancing

what do u get by pushing it off?
it just means the resolution of the argument gets pushed off and idk why that's beneficial

pedit i'm saying flip in me/meuh
and yes i would obviously prefer meuh
but i think that just leaving the argument till tomorrow is not helpful for the game at large

if it came down to it and deveryone decided to flip, like, cakez i'd vote him over me but i think it's the suboptimal way to play the game
idk what me being in the group in question has to do with anything

[skitter30]

Idk not convinced its coral tbh

[skitter30]

I dont understand the last 2 pages >.>

[skitter30]

I still really want meuh >.>

[skitter30]

Any one of you who read page 82, specifically 2031, and came out of that thinking marcistar might be scum deserves a very simple fate for the collective good of the town, holy shit

Spoiler:

I dont think that's a particularly townie post tbh

[skitter30]

So hot today >.>

[skitter30]

dune <3

[skitter30]

indeed

[skitter30]

I'm wonderinf if i'm playing a diff game then everyone else because i ... just dont see town-meuh

And from my pov @faker cakez/coral doesnt feel super likely so that solve doesnt feel very satisfying to me

[skitter30]

>.>

[skitter30]

Plz vote meuh

[skitter30]

I think faker is probably town fwiw but i absolutely put no stock in the read

[skitter30]

Like gun-to-head i think ur town
But i absolutely would not rely on that to solve the rest of the game, in elo, etc

[skitter30]

I will more explicitly tackle Meuh in a bit, I don't have too many pages left. I'd encourage you to look at 1665, which comes immediately upon Beat flip. The surrounding posts of 2051 are great, because they're backing off of her GuiltyLion vote in 1921 after he responds with good content.

Shortly after 1665 she hops off to token resistance (i literally ask her why pav and she hems and haws and hops off in the same post 1809)

And there's still never been an adequate explanation to her hopping *off* of pav in 2305, which is the crux of my argument

[skitter30]

And i'm not sure why you find 1858 so damning tbh ...

[skitter30]

@faker most recent scumgames
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88987
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=89172
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=88043
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=87782
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=86336
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=87040

You should be familiar with some of these

[skitter30]

In like the last year

[skitter30]

Different ones werent really good for different reasons

I repped out of one due to irl / couldn't keep up with the large
I repped out of one for pl issues that were uncomfortable
One was a short micro that i was kinda caught in that we won anyways
Two i got caught and flipped really early on

Best was perpetual elo by far
(Slaughter house was p good too but that's the one i repped out because of pl issues)

[skitter30]

Did u look at any of them? Just curious why me listing them was town-indicative for u

[skitter30]

Ahhhhhh i'm dubious of flipping cakez ...

Like meuh's post sounds like scum ok with getting a misflip

[skitter30]

Fwiw i'm also a little confused why you dropped me to vote cakez

It's because Meuh is scum and saw that they could get more traction on me then you and they're probably going to escape after flipping me. It's pretty obvious.

Yes i'm aware i wanted to see if she would have some sort of decent reason for doing so

(Narratoe: she doesnt)

[skitter30]

And where's the scum on the Beat wagon? Why is this being ignored?

I mean technically not every wagon needs a scum on it

But faker that would be a good thing to address actually

[skitter30]

I noticed it and didn't care, I don't give a shit about VCA and don't do it. No scum was under threat Day 1.

Ok but pav was under threat day2 and meuh just hopped off cuz when the wagon was happening

This to me seems p important

[skitter30]

Literally the name of this game for Faker-scum is to stall the fuck out of the game and force town to make an egregious error wagoning as deadline approaches.

That doesn't work if they default vote Meuh.

We're not default voting meuh as best as i can tell

(As always i find your scum pov quite fascinating)

[skitter30]

My argument exists. It boils down to meuh hopping off of pav for unknown reasons and being unabke to adequately explain it

Her reads today are somehat ephemeral as well (why is she voting xakez even??) and she can't really explain her read changes

That's the argument

Pedit
I have no idea what titus wants
Tuf wasnr going tk vote meuh, andante might but is kinda fickle
Isis absolutely will not
Ari is leaning there but not ready to vote
Gl thinks she's kinda scummy but meuh doesnt seem to be his preferred vote

I cant get anyone other than cakez to vote her, i've been trying for several irl days

This is abt as far from inevitable as one can get

[skitter30]

If you're scum with meuh (not saying you are) there isnt really a ton u need to do to prevent the wagon atm beyond, like, not supporting it

[skitter30]

No, that wasnt where i was going, just that i think a vote like this is important given the context and that i think it's a pivotal piece of info for reading meuh

That's it, wasnt meant to be an argument against u other than saying i'm disagreeing with ur approach of just throwing vca out the window (esp. since the meuh unvote on pav is p pivotal. while it would be *odd* to me if there were no scum on beat doesnt mean it didn't happen. Whereas the meuh unvote is just plan scummy and glossing over it cuz 'i dont do vca' is ignoring a vital piece of the game for really meh reasons)

[skitter30]

Fair enuf,i misunderstood what i meant by vca

Bye faker!

[skitter30]

What you meant ugh

[skitter30]

If you're scum with meuh (not saying you are) there isnt really a ton u need to do to prevent the wagon atm beyond, like, not supporting it

I think you're earnestly overrating my royal influence :good:

I went thru all the clears. The votes arent there rn

[skitter30]

I don't think you liked these posts but they do exist

I dont find these posts to be super compelling

[skitter30]

Ok can u like explain why its not meuh plz and/or why you don't have a problem with her hop off of pav day2?

[skitter30]

Coral is not particularly happy to be voting meuh

The wagon has been exactly me and cakez since like friday or something

[skitter30]

And i've utterly failed to get it higher than that despite trying for like a week

You keep acting like meuh has more support than it actually does

[skitter30]

I'm completely baffled how people look at that unvote and dont find it scummy

She doesnt have an adequate explanation for it. I've been harping about this for a week and she hasnt really challenged it or tried to explain her pov really

Obviously if she's scum and nobody is following this she doesnt have to, but i feel like town would want to defend their actions at some point ....

And faker i'm honestly confused how you look at the unvote ajd take no issue with it

Pedit that's not the point, you're moving the convo away from the one i actuallh want to have

Coral has only started thinking abt voting meuh in the last day or two, and had by no means indicated that that's where she *is* goijg to vote

And rn i care more abt why you dont think the initial unvote is scummy

[skitter30]

Isis if u werent conftown i would be scumreading u so hard >.>

[skitter30]

?

[skitter30]

If meuh thinks its pav fruit coral
Why does she leave the 5 person pav wagon to either start or be the second vote on fruit

We know pav is scum
Ans fruit is town

This has not been adequately explained

Sure the progression tracks with her earlier stated reads
It still doesnt make sense as a thing to do at that point in the game

[skitter30]

Isis i am very confused >.>

[skitter30]

Like i dont get why gamma's pov is important or relevant or how it explains why meuh switched

[skitter30]

I dont understand why gamma's posts led her to drop the wagon she wanted and had been campaigning for and was acrually building at that moment, no

Pedit hi gl!!!! Hope you had a good time :)

[skitter30]

Your worldview is still wrong unfortunately

Pedit @isis

[skitter30]

No, its not an adequate explanation @faker
It doesnt make sense given the context of her actually getting a wagon she'd been saying she wanted. Gamma's posts dont explain the change, and are not a stronf enuf 'prompt' to create said change

I dont randomly leave a wagon i believe in when it has 5 votes after a long day to start a wagon just cuz someone else thinks they should be pressured. That's a bizarrw thing to do as town (but makes sense if ur scum and ur partner is getting wagoned!)

Also if she had a good explanation for her actions she would have mentioned it by now imo

I'm also very skeptical that you believe this argument faker

Pedit i dont know who that ia but that sounds awesome and i'm so happy to hear u had a good time!!!

[skitter30]

Your worldview is still wrong unfortunately

Pedit @isis

I'm pretty scared of losing to argument by repetition so I think that's why I clank towards skitter a lot

I mean yeah but i'm scared of losing to confbias so i stilk have fo keep trying to knock it out of u

[skitter30]

Oh no maybe faker is scum >.>

[skitter30]

They're not relevant, no, and i'm having a hard time believing u think they are

[skitter30]

Or, correction: they're relevant in the sense of 'this is the immediate impetus of the unvote'

But not in the context of: 'she was voting someone she believed was sxum and tried to wagon twice already to no success and the wagon lresently had like five votes'

Like in the micro timeframe, fine, it makes sense. It doesn't make sense in the broader context, which is what i care abt

[skitter30]

I'm concerned about skitter's wellbeing here. She didn't post at all during work hours.

Does anyone know if she's okay?

>.>

[skitter30]

I feel like this discussion all implies that I was like really passionate about Pav being scum, while my read on Fruit was mellow.
Like to me it Pav scum just felt like it made sense? So that’s what I pushed for. Like I even clearly mentioned, it’s less that Pav was actively scummy, and more that he hadn’t townpinged me at all.
You know who else this applies to??
Fruit!

Ok so the bit that i'm still stuck on is: why leave pav when you've voted him twice prior and there actually was a wagon on him then

Like i'm just having a v hard time underatanding this
Maybe i'm just dense and tunneled but i still don't get it

[skitter30]

The Pav wagon already had a bunch of momentum and votes so what’s the point of continuously pushing for something many people agreed with? The idea of giving merit to my own and to Gamma’s idea of Fruit potentially being scum was nice to me, regardless of what Fruit’s votecount was
Unless someone is actively getting pushed to get hammered, votes are just a tool to use to pressure people and make some stances known. I used my vote as a tool to put pressure on Fruit (and his partners had he been scum) and to give merit to the idea of Fruit being scum. That’s much more productive than to keep my vote uninteresting, just there on the Pav wagon

We're we attempting to wind towards to some sort of consensus at that point?

I would argue that hopping off to create a vanity is *not* productive, if anything its counterproductive because votes like that led to the apathy that led to the monarch thing ...

[skitter30]

but why would scum unvote there? It seems like you all are assuming that Meuh's unvote was intended to make an effort at saving Pav, but I don't think it does, especially if skitter is town then the engine of the Pav wagon is all town - and we see how it played out that Pav still got pushed through anyways. So all scum!Meuh has to gain from unviting is... bad optics? In my mind once scum decide to bus/wagon their buddy they usually stick to it and try to milk the towncred they want from it, they don't do some timid vote/unvote play because they're fully concerned with how it will look and point to them if their partner does get flipped. Especially in a set up like this where a buddy going down is tangibly quite bad for scum with 5 people cleared afterwards. if you're going to add fuel to that fire then you have to be getting something from it, and I don't think Meuh tried to.

I mean, to try to avoid a pav flip, esp if other people (gamma) seemed to support voting tuf

We were struggling to form.consensus then so idk why town votes off, but i think its easy for scum too

Pav wasnt certain at that point, esp. given the uncertainty around tuf, gamma, etc, so i'm not sure that scum flipping off would be perceived as auto-damning - it wouldnt be if he didnt flip

[skitter30]

i honestly have 0 clue what she is doing today

im not sure she has even tried to look for mafia

She hasnt in like 2 game days which tbqh is quite alarming

[skitter30]

I think that's e2 if anyone is counting: me cakez coral andante

[skitter30]

I dont think its cakez and wont vote him unless its literally him or me

Why are we all forgetting abt marci again

Also @gl r.e. meuh's earlier pav votes - scum distance, idk why she wouldnt vote early on and hop off when its becoming more of a thing.

That's like scum distancing 101

Did anyone become clear somehow due to the e2's and wagon comp?. If so can someone explain that to me slowly >.>

[skitter30]

That is how i view distancing @gl

Also meuh in the past few pages is scummy af

I dont think scum-cakez posts like this ehile drunk

[skitter30]

I don't really think it's skitter anymore but I guess I could be wrong. She has been less of an active voice lately, and there's been less pressure on her, but I don't know if those things are connected. I would still much prefer Meuh, though.

i can't even begin to explain how hectic my last like ~10 days have been lol

[skitter30]

Skitter is there anything other than that one vote you don't like from me

- dislike your gl vote eod2 for similar reasons
- feel like today you've been somewhat ephemeral and very go-with-the-flow-y and lack conviction
- i feel like town would have tried to defend herself given that i've been harping on the same thing for like a week

[skitter30]

in my mind distancing is giving the impression you SR/would lim someone without actually doing something that helps get them limmed

voting Pav repeatedly encourages the exact outcome you don't want (Pav lim) and unvoting removes the one benefit you do want (towncred)

the times that she voted pav weren't encouraging that outcome because the wagon didn't take off then, and it wasn't a super popular vote at the time

like it seems a bit of a stretch to me to say that the early pav votes were likely to have led to a pav flip

[skitter30]

Skitter is there anything other than that one vote you don't like from me

This is part of what concerns me about her slot

isis literally everything i've ever done this game concerns u abt my slot

[skitter30]

Idk it's like if the only point you bring up against me is voting for someone at the middle of day 2 and that point is being disagreed with by several conftownies, why aren't you reconsidering your perspective

well, one is isis who i know has a completely wrong pov of the game so idk why i should her pov much credence. she can be town but she's so mindblowingly wrong that like i can't really take into account her reads
ari agrees with me
idk what titus thinks
tuf was a non-entity and andante keeps changing her mind

gl disagreeing with me does actually give me a bit of pause

[skitter30]

what if we lim marci instead of meuh cuz marci is literally meuhs only possible partner

i'm actually not opposed

rn i'm:

Meuh > marci > faker/coral > cakez

[skitter30]

i don't think drunk scum cakez posts the way he has been for the last hour or whatever

[skitter30]

i am kinda coming back around again to faker scum tbh

[skitter30]

i mean i'm here and not blitzing anything

[skitter30]

Starting from Day 3, the Mafia will begin escaping.
Each night, in addition to a mandatory kill, one of the Mafia must choose to escape, and will exit the game being revealed to be Mafia.
At this point, if just one of the Mafia is eliminated, the Mafia loses.
The Mafia win when all living members escape.

am i missing something? aren't we in white flag rn?

[skitter30]

ME MEUH MARCI ANDANTE

THAT'S 4

SCUM SKITTER/CAKEZ CAN BLITZ RIGHT NOW AND ESCAPE

if coral is scum
and i'm scum

don't i just lose if we flip coral?
i don't get what u mean by escaping ...

[skitter30]

ok that isn't a sketch af vote

pedit what are you even talking about

[skitter30]

do i not understand the mechanics???

[skitter30]

also that marci vote makes me think meuh / marci

pedit don't scum just lose if one of them get flipped today?
faker is arguing coral is scum
why would their partner hammer

[skitter30]

then i have no idea what you're arguing
pedit yeah i'm very confused

[skitter30]

Starting from Day 3, the Mafia will begin escaping.
Each night, in addition to a mandatory kill, one of the Mafia must choose to escape, and will exit the game being revealed to be Mafia.

At this point, if just one of the Mafia is eliminated, the Mafia loses.

The Mafia win when all living members escape.

am i reading this wrong ????

[skitter30]

skitter do you actually not know how the fucking escape mechanic works after day 2 and the whole fucking game of perpetual melo

i didn't realize, no

[skitter30]

i am bad at counting obviously

[skitter30]

Oh it's E-2 I CAN'T FUCKING COUNT OKAY

yeah also i thought we had to get to 6, not 5

[skitter30]

Can we hammertest skitter

go for it

@ari if we can't do meuh i would strongly consider shifting to marci

[skitter30]

ok yeah i think it's 2 of marci faker meuh

[skitter30]

ok VOTE: marci

[skitter30]

4513 i cant quote it for some reason

@gl i don't find the pav posts you quoted to be anti-partner-y at all

i can see the hestitation wrt marci's posts about pav, but i don't think they're clearing

[skitter30]

idk that's what tipped me over from 'eh i could vote i suppose if we're not doing meuh' to 'i don't want to vote'

i don't think that's the way scum posts when drunk, he was way to gung-ho about what was happening when the game was moving super super fast

[skitter30]

to clarify this is a general approach to drunkeness (i seem to recall townreading people who post drunk at least 3 times. i don't remember if i was right lol. at least once i def was)

not a cakez-specific read

[skitter30]

it's run concurrently with the stresses of my immediate living situation and the planning of my move to another state, the accompanying structures I'd like to set up for myself there, and the overarching pressures that move represents.

Hope this move goes well faker!!!!

[skitter30]

I dont think there's anything i can say to get isis to change her mind around voting me, so i'm just not going to put effort into that

VOTE: meuh this is where i think scum is
I will ultimately vote anyone besides me at deadline to varying degrees of unhappiness (with the caveat that i am super busy tonight and idk how much i'll be around then)

That's where i'm at

[skitter30]

I dont underatand the implocations of not hammering

But regardless i am not

[skitter30]

we yeet coral

if game over yay

if skitter escapes yeet cakes

if cakes escapes yeet skitter

if faker escapes yeet in marci/meuh

if marci escapes yeet faker

if meuh escapes yeet faker

does that make sense?

But yeah i think that's fine

[skitter30]

If we're settling on coral and meuh is absolutely not happening i can vote her

[skitter30]

If we're settling on coral and meuh is absolutely not happening i can vote her

But i am not confident she is flipping scum

[skitter30]

Oh that's right.
Maybe meuh -> marci?

[skitter30]

Was great playing with u coral

If this is town faker tomorrow plz

[skitter30]

Big oof my reads were horrible. Thanks everyone for playing!

[skitter30]

Ans ydra for modding!!

[skitter30]

the real answer Isis wants.... was skitter maf?

>.>

Also great reads faker

[skitter30]

Third, skitter, get wrecked. You're welcome and get wrecked. I love you but get absolutely wrecked.

<3

[skitter30]

the real answer Isis wants.... was skitter maf?

>.>

Also great reads faker

And sorry meuh for the tunnel >.>

[skitter30]

p interesting: 3/3 ended up on the confirmed list. if you actually look back at the total heal vc (2581), gl and meuh are the only other person who got 2 conftown, and most people only got one. i'm kinda wondering if there's a correlation between this list and who ended up conftown: scum thought these people were ridiculously townie and were unflippable and thus conftowned them, and when asked to share townreads, taht's who they picked.
i'm still kinda baffled by coral being relatively widely townread yestrday and having such good reads that natural fit with the townblock, and then not being in the townblock. i don't know how to reconcile that. also she didn't put in isis but seems to be townreading her?

- i don't really see a point in rehashing my earlier arguments with her

- i'm also baffled how she's townreading meuh for hopping off of pav (as early as 2549) - this is just like not how mafia works in my universe

- also despite scumreading pav p hard all ady yesterday, she never ended up on wagon ... (there's a few posts, like3009, that indicate that she hadn't thought of the hammer + escape thing, if anybody is going to ask why scum-her didn't hammer)
(there's actually an unusual number of posts focusing on the hammer + escape thing, which i don't think many other people have particularly focused on - i think this is lowkey scummy because scum by nature care more about the implciations of said strategy and would be viewing the game through that lens)

Also fwiw even tho these were wildly derided, i do think that these were fairly fair points

(And i should have stuck to my guns too but alas)

[skitter30]

Isis i do just kinda want to say that dealing with a 'confbias read that i just don't want to reconsider' was somewhat frustrating