open 852: store bought potions (sold!)

[Flea The Magician]

Obligatory potion seller meme

VOTE: Sinatra

[Flea The Magician]

Yo bones. Good to see you again.

For those curious, read previous games to see how potion planning stuff works.

I'm also mobile posting for a short while but meh, mechanics isn't affecting me until I get hit

[Flea The Magician]

Oh and for the record, you can perfectly do the maths, but those are affecting distribution and odds.
A chance is always a chance and I promise you the average isn't always the case.

[Flea The Magician]

Apparently I got prodded.
Had an... Interesting trip.
Currently hurtling along at 90mph across the British countryside.

More to come later as my phone apparently hates me trying to post and is insisting realtraintimes doesn't exist...

[Flea The Magician]

lol nancy is actually scummy

Do tell?

[Flea The Magician]

especially that olive branch she's giving so n_m can leave her alone

anyone want to spoonfeed the town re: strategy yet? my strategy is not to think about strategy and just sheep whoever else wants to take control. it's day 1. let's get wild.

I'm up to here and almost ready to just sheep Nancy again ngl.

[Flea The Magician]

VOTE: Nancy Sinatra

not admitting that she was giving N_M a way out in her recent postings suggests either lack of self-awareness or deceptive behavior. could be scum! let's gather 'round this slot!

VOTE: HEM

Now you’re totally making up shit.

~N

Oh noooi....
VOTE: hem
My voooote.....

[Flea The Magician]

Everything I've said so far is also true.
You forget I have a hell of a lot of respect for Nancy's game.
I've also caught her scumvibes quickly in the past.

[Flea The Magician]

... ok am I that obvious?

-AlterS lol

[Flea The Magician]

Think Nancy has been really scummy. Her content is almost all reactive in a negative way.

Nancy is a reactive player and honestly her being here with IVD means frankly if they're scum they are probably actually a hard catch.

If every single reactive player was just scum then me, Nancy, and a few others here would just be policy.

Players like Enchant and N_M who active antitown Hammerers, and in n_ms case a gut lock tunnel don't even get a consideration.

Agressive players can often be scum and will attempt to control the game. Just because your passive playstyle doesn't work with reactionary players doesn't mean they're scum.


And yeah, I'm taking this game seriously.

[Flea The Magician]

why do you townread nancy, flea

Nancy is bringing the fight and IVD seems to be amused at the happenings. This is town Nancy. Come EoD I'll probably lock that read for the game.

[Flea The Magician]

Nancy does thing ---> HEM points out that Nancy does thing --> Nancy asks where she did thing --> HEM shows where Nancy did thing --> Nancy calls it making shit up --> I hammer Nancy and she flips scum

No townie ever should be this certain of their read and NM is basing this on a 100% nai post.

Sadly this is 100% NAI for N_M.

[Flea The Magician]

Not thrilled with HEM mischaracterizing my posting. What olive branch? And now NM is apparently tr the slot he previously called my hypothetical buddy.

No, I won’t be silenced NM, because your ubershitty read on me doesn’t change my alignment - which is town. Too fucking bad if you have a problem with that.

~N

*Caught scum noises intensify*

And when we flip town, how will you backtrack on that?

I think it’s possible if HEM is scum, you could be a buddy. I didn’t pick up any weird vibes with you and STD but I feel some sort of possible connection with you and HEM.

~N

If my read is wrong, honestly, that's on you

This post is really eating at me. This sounds like NM knows I will flip town and is already setting it up to blame me for my miselim.

~N

Eat my shorts scumbutt

Are you trying to provoke me into getting banned or something?

You having the gaul to actually blame me for my miselim is beyond disgusting.

~N

Nancy straight up don't take the bait.
It ain't worth it, and N_M just trolls, tunnels and winds up - literally the worst kind of player for you specifically to have in a game.

He's literally Deedee from Dexters lab. Hits every damned button and to hell with the consequences.

[Flea The Magician]

I think it's been a while since we have played together Nancy but I do not remember town!you acting like this

@Flea: I (at least used to) have a reactive playstyle too, so it isn't that. It's how Nancy is being reactive.

You did, and you became passive instead. The thing is N_M in game will mess up peoples reads and reactions, they're an aggressor and if they know they can get a rise out of someone they can and will push it and distort the game.

In fact I'm just going to say regardless of alignment NM is this game is neg util for town at the moment and opt for Policy.

VOTE: N_M

[Flea The Magician]

I feel like you underestimate NM a lot. He can play the game too

Oh he absoutely can and he's scary af when he's on the ball.

Problem is, getting him on the damn ball. That Milktank may know rollout, but they seem to prefer to use Curse, Flail and Milkdrink.

... We may actually see a rollout this game.

[Flea The Magician]

UNVOTE: N_M
Didn't realise it was that close.

[Flea The Magician]

I'm all for the policy elimination but with 6 days and 2 lolhammerers here, no. Ain't denying the town 6 days.

[Flea The Magician]

I was busy with a chemistry exam, sorry for being inactive!

I don't really support limming N_M day 1, as usual.

Nancy is town, forget what I said about NM, I don't think this is town NM.

FOS: Not_Mafia

Treat this as a vote in all but VC.

So what about NM made you think they were town?

[Flea The Magician]

Hem and nm are where my vote goes today.
Even if nm is town they are going to turn this game into a toxic are pile and be town neg.

[Flea The Magician]

Is N_M really that toxic? I've been playing with him and he seems like he's seriously playing so far. Sure, he might quickhammer here and there but that's part of his playstyle. Targetting N_M personally for a playstyle seems mean to me idk

Depends on who he picks on.
In this case, Nancy is the worst possible target. She's reactive and honestly can be easily provoked. Thing is she's shit hot at playing mafia and to me N_M's whole purpose here is to throw her off the game.

I'm the same, N_M has come at me as I'm reactive and have become toxic in a game before as a result. Getting a read on him is hard, thats fair, it's a game. But its so hard to get an actual insight into his thought process or state of the game reading its genuinely like pulling teeth. This can also lead to an overall lax gamestate with demotivated town meaning scum literally just get to coast.

On top of that, we have two lolhammers which is honestly amusing at first, but the novelty wears off fast.

[Flea The Magician]

Hem and nm are where my vote goes today.
Even if nm is town they are going to turn this game into a toxic are pile and be town neg.

You always say this

not always.
I think I've said you're a toxic influence like twice? Lolhammering is just given to be town negative.

You're also damned good at this when you want to be.

[Flea The Magician]

I have thoughts but I want N_M to react.

I also think there's more nuance to both N_M and Enchant than lolhammerers. Also targeting lolhammers for their playstyle in early game is more anti-town than lolhammering, hot take.

Policy eliminations are better done early than late.
Lolhammering is always going to invoke policy - if not from me, from others.

they both absolutely have a lot more to their play than whats been said. Enchant can be sorted later and won't turn toxic. NM is hard to sort and generally has to be sorted early ime.

[Flea The Magician]

i mean i stopped voting nancy because i agree with their stance that she's reactive. this is kind of what i'd expect from nancy as town but it seems a bit extreme and when you put it like "caught for the wrong reasons" i'm vibing with that more than "she's reactive"

This is scummy.

[Flea The Magician]

On what planet is Nancy "Caught for the wrong reasons"?

Don't get me wrong, i'm all for whaling on a hydra because 1 head fucked up. There's no fuck up here, there's no slip, no catch, nothing.

And frankly if you go for Nancy/IVD today I'm 99% thats a green flip and I will laugh at the lot of you.

[Flea The Magician]

okay why

StD is literally jumping on/off/on for the shittest sheepy reasons possible.
Theres no independent thought.

[Flea The Magician]

On what planet is Nancy "Caught for the wrong reasons"?

Don't get me wrong, i'm all for whaling on a hydra because 1 head fucked up. There's no fuck up here, there's no slip, no catch, nothing.

And frankly if you go for Nancy/IVD today I'm 99% thats a green flip and I will laugh at the lot of you.

on the planet four of us are in

you're not seeing what we're pointing at? i want to hear from you because you have such a strong read on nancy that i think if you can reframe what we're seeing, maybe you can enlighten us.

No I'm genuinely not seeing whatever you're all seeing.

I'm seeing NM make a usual shitpush against a player whose known for being highly reactive and volatile.
Nancy is responding exactly as Nancy would. There's no "caught for the wrong reasons" - its a shit push and Nancy has a massive bugbear about that kinda stuff. Same honestly - and its the same shit I see happen with many other players honestly. There's a shitty D1 rvs-breaker and the person gets rattled by it.

Nancy is literally the definition of a reactionary player. I'm a reactionary player and Nancy is the standard bearer.

Thing is, Nancy doesn't have a panic going on, she's hitting the points that are coming at her. yes the Olive Branch thing I can see that, I don't see it as scummy. Because I know her mindset and it won't register as such.
Olive Branching is so much more than "heres an inch" - its "heres a full out." by our definition.

This is a solidly town Nancy. There is consistency, there is exactly the emotional range I'd expect from her... and just to top it all off, IVD is active and contributing and is agreeing with her.
Having spoken to Nancy, helped her navigate emotional bullshit and various assaults and attacks at her character, I honestly feel I've got pretty good vibes on her. I am 99% that this is town nancy and ivd.

---

As for me defending? I throw deadweight under the bus. I have strong bus meta at this point I believe.
From outside perspective, this is either S/T or T/T. My meta alone stops this being S/S.

[Flea The Magician]

i see town!flea being stubborn and ignoring the fact that there's not 4 scum so at least one town is buying into nancy being scum and probably more, the scum team all jumping in on nancy being scum seems crazy.

there's probably a scum!nancy defender but i don't think it's flea

i dont think flea thinks there are 4 scum because flea said fae'll laugh at us if nancy flips town

Uhm, this is an open game...

SETUP:
there are 8 town and 3 mafia
players start with 2 HP, and die when their HP goes to 0. nobody knows what their HP is other than that it starts at 2. executions occur as normal.

I do actually check the setups, believe it or not.
At least 1 scum is on this wagon, 2 is unlikely but not impossible if NM is actually red and trying to deflect/generate a counterwagon.

[Flea The Magician]

am i using that pronoun right, flea?

Yeah you're good <3 most people at this point just use Flea or call me Fae lol

[Flea The Magician]

what i meant was i dont think you think that we are all scum, or that it's a necessarily scum-motivated wagon

or did i get that wrong?

I've stated my sus rn, which is primarily on you. StD is getting up there but honestly I'm unsure how to read him at this point. I don't think all scum are on this and I would frankly be amazed if all 3 are on there. I do think scum are trying to influence this wagon though.

[Flea The Magician]

I disagree, because I'm not seeing caught nancy in the slightest. I'm seeing the spicy bean I know and love doing what she does best, calling out BS reads.

Show me where she's caught for the wrong reason? And then show me how your mindset is town in that catch. Cause honestly, CFTWR is easily used by scum on panicked town too.

[Flea The Magician]

She is though. She's literally being tunnelled for an RVS post on her allergies.

[Flea The Magician]

i voted you because the popcorn was a bit much

the popcorn was showy

you're trying too hard

Your vote is genuinely worse than NMs.

[Flea The Magician]

She is though. She's literally being tunnelled for an RVS post on her allergies.

But the follow-up to that is what is scummy. And it isn't like NM is even applying that much pressure to call it a tunnel when he is kinda just saying Nancy is scum occasionally

Almost every other post they make actually... so yeah I see it as a tunnel.

[Flea The Magician]

It's not about merit,

it's that it's a town thought process that we think she is caught for wrong reasons

. My point isn't even that we are right here, it's just that gamma calling the push disingenuous is bad

How are you sure it’s a town mindmeld
The progression of it doesn’t feel like what I’d expect out of that sort of thing at all, it was a one-by-one process where one person expressed that feeling and then another

VOTE: Dwlee

I’m more convinced than ever that my 3 tls are now trs.

This whole cftwr exactly the same bullshit that scum!Guillo used to push me. Out of the slots eager for my town blood, HEM probably looks the best now. STD could well be scum but he didn’t jump on Flea. I also still think NM could be scum but I think this post of Dwlee sounds informed.

Also in that game where scum!NM deathtunnelled town!F&G, Dwlee was NM’s replacement and he continued to push that slot for comparably stupid reasons.

Rn, I think possibly two of Dwlee/STD/NM? HEM not out of suspicion yet but I bet the game on at least one scum here.

~N

What game are you referring to? And yea, I'm informed of my alignment. Like you're calling me scum because I offered evidence my mindset was a townie one accusing me of TMI of me town?

where? you've given no actual evidence of that as far as I'm concerned.

[Flea The Magician]

She is though. She's literally being tunnelled for an RVS post on her allergies.

A) She isn't, it's also her subsequent reaction and posting

B) So? RVS is a prime time to catch scum. I've done it before in RVS, someone's first post no less.

her reaction and posting is absolutely town.

So have I, your point? doesn't mean its a consistent catch or telling method.

[Flea The Magician]

Everything is ai in mafia

even you hammering every e-1?

[Flea The Magician]

nai rvs post

I don't think it's nai though that's the point.

What is the point then?

Your mum

scummy post - personal attack. (making a point here)

[Flea The Magician]

And it’s day freaking 1: give me time.

That's no excuse, I've already caught scum

you really havent, oh and everything is AI means your confidence is SAI.

[Flea The Magician]

i should note that both std and i was about to leave the nancy hypetrain for more productive endeavors before dwlee dropped his mixtape and changed the industry

sus.

elaorate.

[Flea The Magician]

I also think Italiano is using the fact that he's in hydra to push suspicion on more slots, like it's very easy and convenient to bounce in the thread here and there to shade slots that Nancy isn't. And it's one of my least favourite schticks when hydras come into threads like "Oh Tweedledee and I were chatting in our PT and he thinks Jiggledorf is scum OMGUSing but I've seen him play similarly in Touhou Mafia CIV but I don't agree with Tweedlees townlock on Swamp Creature", I don't give a fuck present a united voice please

funny thing is, they look in sync to me while still showing independent thought.

[Flea The Magician]

In an case, I know how you can react as town, it's not about that for me

What is it about then?

Your RVS posting and read on HEM

#EverythingIsAI
you selfvoted in RVS and made a snap read based on an allergy.
Pretty scummy imo.

[Flea The Magician]

Page 20 read, and VOTE: NM

The vibe check has completely failed at this point.
I don't think town NM goes this hard.

Pedit - nm said himself everything is AI.

[Flea The Magician]

I believe in some meta adjacent things but not meta itself. Like when people say "she's like this as town" maybe I agree.

When people say "In x game I was like this here's a link here's a quote" maybe I don't care

I hate the fact my history of reading you is so damned wrong.
Cause this sinks more than my ass during an IBS flare

[Flea The Magician]

why are you appealing to nancy, std? isn't she scum?

Ok. I'm town. Come back to this post after the game is over.

He keeps tmi slipping on me.

~N

Will have to look at this later

[Flea The Magician]

I'm a sassy guy and I'm town being scumread for my wackiness

You're being SRd by me for lacking depth

[Flea The Magician]

I've made my peace I'm happy to laugh at you all from the dead thread but what are you going to do when it's not me? What are you going to let Nancy and roden get away with?

Oh and the woenis me defeatism.

[Flea The Magician]

I'm tired of these motherfucking snakes on this motherfucking plane

I'm tired of these dragons on that motherfucking fence...

[Flea The Magician]

woenis

Almost like I'm on mobile with a phone that hates me.

[Flea The Magician]

I can't wait for flea to catch up and shit all over me

At least you know you've been playing shitty.

[Flea The Magician]

no! you gotta have to look at my iso if you want an elaboration!

Elaborate.

[Flea The Magician]

I'm tired of these motherfucking snakes on this motherfucking plane

I'm tired of these dragons on that motherfucking fence...

Must not be me I think I'm pretty clear about my reads

Sticking a pin in this.
Because your reads are everywhere and seemingly change in the flip of a coin.
Bar 2. Hem and nancy

[Flea The Magician]

Control was a game I had an argument with you and misread you
This is a game where I feel like I'm misreading you

Oh wait...

[Flea The Magician]

Kittytacky has spent 0 effort actually trying to parse me

I will say ktacky has been a significantly low effort player so far

[Flea The Magician]

Aight I'm caught up. Shower time and DIY time -.-

[Flea The Magician]

Hey nm, what's your REAL response to that quote?

[Flea The Magician]

Yup. That.

[Flea The Magician]

flea's post that i'm on the fence doesn't make sense if i have 2 strong reads according to faer. but i also have felt that flea is town even though i joked about flea being scum, i don't think that's accurate and i wasn't waffling on my flea read. so that's 3 reads that haven't really changed so i'm not really sure why it's funny to call me on the fence when i'm clearly not

referencing this.

I'm tired of these motherfucking snakes on this motherfucking plane

I'm tired of these dragons on that motherfucking fence...

Must not be me I think I'm pretty clear about my reads

Sticking a pin in this.
Because your reads are everywhere and seemingly change in the flip of a coin.
Bar 2. Hem and nancy

You seem set on HEM town and Nancy scum. Everything else is literally coin flip and you've just tried to explain that away with your read on me

[Flea The Magician]

I'm a bit woozy from travel at the moment, will go over and confirm this tomorrow. Give me a kick if I don't.

[Flea The Magician]

...He didn't tell you?

Oh he did in our hydra pt but not on discord. Rl stuff or something but I mainly wanted to play this game because it allowed hydras, so I don’t know what I’m going to do yet. :/

I'm hoping you stay in the game, you know I've been wanting to play with you properly for a while

[Flea The Magician]

@Flea, @Gamma, do you think it’s possible I’m being pocketed? After WH, I’m so paranoid about once again getting shitpushed.

By who?
By me? If I am scum this has been an easy pocket ngl. I would've expected a lil more sus of my defence of you but I also see this from town you.

[Flea The Magician]

is anyone scumreading me?

Yes.

[Flea The Magician]

i was kidding but it's cool

std did some spewing. what does everyone feel about that?

You think he and Kitty are aligned?

and playing good cop/bad cop on me?

This is town!Nancy mindset, 100%

what does everyone feel about this? does everyone else agree? what do we feel about gamma saying this?

I'm not 100% on Gamma currently but I feel a townblock happening.

[Flea The Magician]

Meaning especially my initial trs. I also now also lean town on HEM and Roden.

So rn, I think Flea/Gamma/Kitty/HEM/Roden are probably town. Enchant and NM might be as well. FB is a complete null, so that leaves STD/Dwlee, which even if correct means that one of these is wrong.

You're really going to need to convince me on HEM.

[Flea The Magician]

I've never seen caught for the wrong reasons turned into an acronym

yeah I get lazy, my bad

[Flea The Magician]

I thought I said meta was bad 100 times this game and you are still are pretending I care?

Problem is you're inconsistent and you've even said as much on this.

You use meta when it benefits you, not when it doesn't.

To me that's being inconsistent on meta use

[Flea The Magician]

Just lim me already so i can get out of this terrible game

AtE noted.

[Flea The Magician]

#45 V Nancy
#53 OMGUS is scummy (@Nancy - vote justified.)
#60 Voted because popcorn (#34 - challenging NM)
#64 also tone (Tone was Playful?)
#71 also tryharding
#102 tunnel threat.
#152 V N_M
#228 S Nancy
#335 V Nancy
#338 Ack Nancy is reactive, Ack town behaviour, vote because its pointed out Nancy could be CFTWR. (Oppotunistic.)
#347 Start ack Town Flea
#351 TL Flea.
#352 Doubting TL, potential S Flea T Nancy (jokey tone so disregard.)
#363 Waffles tastey waffles!
#382 Disagreement with my saying the vote was bad, I stand by it. it was oppotunistic.
#391 Gets fluffy.
#500 "I believe in meta when it makes my point. I don't believe it when it doesn't" - Ack inconsistent/oppotune meta use.
#511 Above is a joke. (I'm Unsure. uncertain on tone.)
#529 Ack regular conflict with Roden
#534 target unclear, assuming Nancy in #531. Scumread because overreaction, popcorn, and cftwr.
#538 "I'm town, com back here later" - I'm not seeing much town honestly. There's no sorting efforts.
#553 AtE
#572 SR Nancy - but could be wrong (repeated could be wrong.)
#579 "I'm just wacky and getting SR for it" - more on this later.
#588 S Roden Took this long to mention any sus on anyone else.
#589 S Kitty Tacky
#587 SR Nancy - but not sure.
#591 AtE
#597 Discredit.
#598 Continued.
#600 Shade
#602 Claims to be better than this as scum, despite earlier claim playing different every game.
#605 AtE
#608 Meta Defence despite previous ack of meta-adjacent things and claim of playing different every game.
#616 TR HEM First read mention
#637 Someone would get emotional when being wrongfully attacked more later
#656 Admits possibly reading Roden wrong.
#661 AtE (Meta use mentioned again)
#668 Knows I'm going to come at him.
#673 Deflection onto LHF slot.
#690 Ack my coming at him.
#692 Doesn't care about meta.

#695 "I think I'm pretty clear about my reads"

Current read list that I can see.
Flea (Questionable)
HEM (Single mention)
---
Everyone else
KTacky (Deflection)
---
Roden (unsure what to think, seems genuine effort)
Nancy. (doesn't seem genuine)

#702 TR Flea, SR Nancy
#718 V KittyTacky
#719 V Nancy
#720 Assosiative sus on KTacky from Nancy Defence. Also AtE/Flip me.
#725 dismisses meta again.
#726 Challenges my post, reinforces TR.
#727 Didn't fence sit on kitty, is fence sitting on roden (Inverse to what I've seen reading up, amusingly.)
#728 AtE
#729 AtE
#736 Always TR me (Seems correct), also SL/SR Kitty (little supporting evidence)

Code: Select all

S - Sus
V - Vote
SL/SR/TL/TR - Scum lean/read, town lead/read

[Flea The Magician]

Code: Select all

ack - acknowledged

[Flea The Magician]

I think I'm just wacky and getting sr for it

You are not a "wacky" player, every time I've played with you, you have taken the game seriously and even admonished me for being light hearted about games previously.
Despite you saying you play differently every game you have consistent behaviours. I'm not one for going on meta hunts, I get live meta. I use my live interactions with people to build up the profiles around them and learn how they play.

You're not wacky. You're fun, but not wacky.

[Flea The Magician]

Isn't it obvious why someone would get emotional when being wrongfully attacked

This probably already got covered but I wanna poke this more myself.

Why does this apply to you, and not to someone like Nancy?

[Flea The Magician]

Vote on Gamma happened outside the range I've looked at.

[Flea The Magician]

Kitty should really be getting discussed more and there seems to be a concerted effort behind steering the discussion away from that slot

Theres little to discuss. Its basically an empty slot as KTacky frankly isn't here.

[Flea The Magician]

Vote on Gamma happened outside the range I've looked at.

If STD is scum, I can see him viewing me, you and Gamma as threats, despite claims to the contrary.

He has sr everyone who has both defended me and sr him.

We are absolutely a threat, our system is currently in sync and we're in ultimate hydra mode

[Flea The Magician]

We are absolutely a threat, our system is currently in sync and we're in ultimate hydra mode

yikes fuck this is 2 much 4 me bad vibes

I hydra’d with Flea in Merlin and fae’s playing identically here.

Still say that was all you.

[Flea The Magician]

i think it's time to talk about night strategy. i think this day ends with std or kitty's head on a pike.

Why those two?

[Flea The Magician]

enchant mentioned this but i honestly have zero grasp of our setup other than how many scum there is. can you elaborate?

The problem with coordinating things and outing night actions means scum can score multiple kills overnight. There should be no night planning openly.

Scum don't have a traditional factional here, they have the potions and get to coordinate their use. They have the potential to kill 1.5 people every night on average. They can also ensure no kills tonight and score 3 kills tomorrow night based on average distributions.

If anyone claims targets today, then scum has potentially 2 kills tonight or 3 if there's enough distribution of harm potions.

Drink again potions also mess with those numbers.

Basically there's too much random probability for town to be able to coordinate in a way that doesn't give scum an optimal strategy.

[Flea The Magician]

std is a majority wagon. kitty is the counterwagon.

Flashwagons can happen.

[Flea The Magician]

(people get way too precious about pronouns these days)

... Pride or wrath....

both.

Almost like people don't want to deal with the constant bullshit of being disrespected and dealing with the microaggressions of "oh its no big deal" when in reality every tiny little chip soon adds up and can make you crumble.

[Flea The Magician]

It's whatever. Didn't want to start a whole debate on that and where PC is at these days.

Ah yes, because basic respectability for your fellows is apparently bullshit designed to supress the privileged from speaking their mind and revelling in their privileges.

[Flea The Magician]

As for StD, I'm attempting to sort him and see what stands where. I don't like the KT wagon coming out of nowhere as a counter.

[Flea The Magician]

Apologies that I caused offense. I assure you that was not my intention. For what it's worth, I never deliberately to misgender anyone and try to use their preferred pronoun. But sometimes mistakes do happen and when it does happen, people make out like it's the worst thing to ever happen. All I'm saying is that's overexaggerating it a wee bit. Stop drawing me into this minute piece of my post and answer the rest, goddamn it.

Hypothetically speaking, if STD gets decapitated today and flips town, does that make Nancy v STD TvT? Would scum have been defending Nancy in an attempt to pocket?

When you spend a life suffering the microaggressions of being called Sir, of being referred to as He/Him when you're stood there with tits on show wearing a dress, boots and makeup, we have full rights to get pissy about this. When the pronouns are often listed on the side, we have full rights to get pissy. I don't get pissy about my pronouns unless I have to tell you repeatedly. That I recall, I've never actually had to tell you.

Your blasé approach is disrespectful, your generalisation is harmful, and your attitude is shit.

You made the post, actions have consequences. There's a reason my avatar has a transflag with a biohazard symbol on it. I am called toxic and shitty because I don't let shit slide and I make sure people either learn and grow or show their true colours.

[Flea The Magician]

Hypothetically speaking, if STD gets decapitated today and flips town, does that make Nancy v STD TvT? Would scum have been defending Nancy in an attempt to pocket?

If StD flips town I need to reevaluate quite a bit, and I'm happy to lock Nancy as a town read - for those unfamiliar for me that is that read will not be questioned for the rest of this game.

On a green flip this is absolutely TvT and wagonomics needs to be looked at, which is going to be interesting to do.

[Flea The Magician]

As for StD, I'm attempting to sort him and see what stands where. I don't like the KT wagon coming out of nowhere as a counter.

+1

I don’t understand why he’s even a wagon, why is he scummy?

Which one?

I'm sorry okay?
I apologise, I don't deliberately misgender people; I try to use their preferred pronouns. I'll pop in a bit later. Didn't mean to cause offence, I'm sorry.

Thats fine, again you're pretty solid when it comes to using the correct pronouns and stuff. Your fuckup here was spewing anti-trans rhetoric and I don't think you even realised it honestly. Just don't make excuses in future <3

[Flea The Magician]

LHF slot, which is an easy target honestly.

[Flea The Magician]

What exactly has Nancy done that is so hard to fake as scum that she is absolutely locktown? Is her scum game that polarized?

My reading people goes into full reading what they have. I don't read what isn't there which is what a lot of people like to do, I focus on what is there. Part of what gets factored into my reads are vibes, silly as it sounds.

Nancys scum games are terrifying, she's damned good at what she does.

But her attitude and her vibe are different. Vastly different.

[Flea The Magician]

Isn't it obvious why someone would get emotional when being wrongfully attacked

This probably already got covered but I wanna poke this more myself.

Why does this apply to you, and not to someone like Nancy?

i mean it does apply to nancy too but i don't think that's what's going on, i haven't seen as much emotion from nancy as i would expect but i don't know if that's because she's turned over a new leaf as she was trying to do or if she knows she's scum and is confident in that.

hey look at me re-evaluating

I am likely biased as I've been helping Nancy with emotional processing since her ban and helping her manage some emotions in better ways. There's definitely a difference in fireyness but honestly I think it made her more deadly.

[Flea The Magician]

what is that, like 4 untruths and mischaracterizations that i just provided to Nancy that people are going to ignore?

Oh they won't be ignored, but I'm also not willing to re-eval Nancy for a while.

[Flea The Magician]

What exactly has Nancy done that is so hard to fake as scum that she is absolutely locktown? Is her scum game that polarized?

My reading people goes into full reading what they have. I don't read what isn't there which is what a lot of people like to do, I focus on what is there. Part of what gets factored into my reads are vibes, silly as it sounds.

Nancys scum games are terrifying, she's damned good at what she does.

But her attitude and her vibe are different. Vastly different.

If this were true her scum game would be terrible though

Depends on how you play, again I read what is there, not what isn't there.
A lot of people tend to try and read whats there, whats between the lines and everything around it eventually ignoring whats actually there.
I do word flow analysis, I do word choice analysis, and I've done enough testing on MS to know how to tailor my word choice to make me look townier or scummier.

[Flea The Magician]

Does this game still make sense if both std and nancy are town? What does that look like? Who's the scum there? Getting bad vibes from flea. I need to say that. Facebones is my strongest townread, iirc

Anything in particular thats throwing off the bad vibes?

[Flea The Magician]

im willing to take a step back from nancy if i'm just wrong here? but it kinda makes it hard when she says things like "you tr dwlee" when i never did to try and paint narratives that make sense in a scum!STD world to try and drive her incorrect point home.

I just don't know if she'd do that as town and would probably need assurances that other people 1) understand what i'm saying and 2) believe she would do this as town

She would, does and has. I get what you mean, and I can see what you're getting at. I've seen Nancy do this before though as town, she gains a narrative and brains being the wonderfully weird pieces of squish they are will fill a blank to make an end result work. Nancy gets the result and works from the start to that, not always getting the information correct.

[Flea The Magician]

I don't think that answers the point I raised

Admittedly I got a little sidetracked.

The point was her games are terrible or terrifying depending how you look at them. How I look at them, they are terrifying however I'm reasonably confident in my ability to read Nancy using my methods.

[Flea The Magician]

I thought I said meta was bad 100 times this game and you are still are pretending I care?

Problem is you're inconsistent and you've even said as much on this.

You use meta when it benefits you, not when it doesn't.

To me that's being inconsistent on meta use

that's how i use meta though

i call it bad but sometimes use meta-like reads to help me

The other thing is you seemed to imply that usage of your meta is a joke. Which I found when doing the ISO run through.
Which is again, inconsistency on your part.
Admittedly, I have seen you be some level of inconsistent in the past, so this is mostly NAI. That you're sticking to it is making me more sus.

[Flea The Magician]

i don't just use meta as joke

here's how i use meta

nancy is a passionate and emotional player. i will remember this from game to game and read her accordingly.

here's how i don't use meta

nancy did X in Y game, so she's going to do it again.

the latter is bad and is what is typically meant when people say meta, so i say meta is bad but still use the former which is technically still meta but maybe not what people mean when they say "meta".

This is why I define it as "Live Meta" read the emotional intensity and variation as well as word choice and flow.
I will use knowledge from games played, but not go out seeking it.

[Flea The Magician]

nacny's arguments are "i literally did X in Y games" and i always try to play differently to make that kind of meta useless

i've also pointed out why, even if i didn't do that, it's a bad argument

Nah thats valid. You've also used that defence though here.

[Flea The Magician]

As for StD, I'm attempting to sort him and see what stands where. I don't like the KT wagon coming out of nowhere as a counter.

Yeah people see that I am lurking for personal reasons and try to use it as leverage. Honestly kinda gross.

I get this, we're having a pain flare currently and it looks like its big meds time meaning I'm probably going to need to call V/LA at some point. This almost always leads to me getting pushed.

[Flea The Magician]

i feel like dwlee is naturally quiet and N_M is pushing in a way i'd expect N_M to push

i dunno. dwlee taking on nancy and wking me barely seems weird for scum to do on paper i mean why not just pile on unless there's already 2 scums on me and dwlee wants to be different

i think N_M is town?

So if you were to place dwlee in scum or town rn, where would it be?

[Flea The Magician]

STD what do you think of your town block mindmeld doing absolutely nothing to help or defend you

i feel like dwlee is naturally quiet and N_M is pushing in a way i'd expect N_M to push

i dunno. dwlee taking on nancy and wking me barely seems weird for scum to do on paper i mean why not just pile on unless there's already 2 scums on me and dwlee wants to be different

i think N_M is town?

@Roden. I disagree with this. NM has defended STD and when pressure on my slot dwindled, he started up the harassment again and it is harassment because I feel extremely scared I will lose it on him and get another ban. so it’s actually cruel what he’s doing to me at this point. No one should feel terrified that another player is upsetting them to the extent, they’re seriously worried about getting banned.

Just ignore NM then. If you don't think his push has any substance and it's just to bait a bad reaction out of you then stop responding.

I don't think NM is doing much to defend him, even STD doesn't seem to recall it. So if he did then not even STD took notice.

Easier said than done, but I can fully see where Nancy is coming from here.
NM is just being NM and locktunneled. This is why I said NM is neg town.

[Flea The Magician]

can someone summarize the gamestate i feel the need to be re-oriented

We have NM in deathtunnel
V&M essentially disabled at the moment because of said deathtunnel.
I'm trying to solve StD
StD seems to be blanket efforting.

Dwlee, KT, FB and Gamma are essentially absent still, Enchant is Enchant - never here.
Gamma needing to be checked over as there's content but it's not been enough for me to passively form a read as we've gone.

Roden appears to be making decent efforts.

[Flea The Magician]

we need a strong flip for d1. not a compromise lurker low info flip like kitty. n_m (because this is the strongest way to gain info from that slot/player) or std (i still think he can be scum here, and i want to err towards the majority than the minority).

sorry in advance if both are town.

So what info do you/we gain from either of those flips and where does your read on both sit?

---

Good to know StD btw, no follow up, was just curious.

[Flea The Magician]

i think these recent HEM posts come from town but he really needs to get off me or at least think about what happens when i flip town if i flip

Yeah I'm not seeing HEM town here.
VOTE: HEM
I want a break down of what you get from what flip.

[Flea The Magician]

Oh you claimed, good my votes staying there.

[Flea The Magician]

I don't entertain scumclaimers, honestly.

[Flea The Magician]

The best narratives write themselves.

[Flea The Magician]

cop out. you've been calling me scum for a while now. you probably have ideas.

You're right, I have been, and I do.
But when you're scumclaiming and writing the narrative for me, why bother?

I also tried throwing you a couple lines - Olive branches, if you will - and youve not been convincing me of much with your recent efforts just ignoring my attempts to sort you.

[Flea The Magician]

I don't need to, is the thing.

People will read into you what they want to read into you. I read you as scum, I put my vote on you, and you've proceeded to squeal like a pig.

[Flea The Magician]

with 11 alive, it takes 6 to meet me up in heaven. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-06-07 14:57:40)

[Flea The Magician]

Not as much time as I'd like, but enough for now.

[Flea The Magician]

Dude appears to have freaked out over my passing out last night, amazing.

[Flea The Magician]

okay why is flea town?

because i think it's scum-indicative that fae's voting for me (and have been calling me scum all game!) and thinks i'm caught scum when she can't even muster enough force to convince everyone to vote me out. also copping out by saying that there isn't enough time but maintains her vote on me, therefore wanting to eliminate me. she also says flashwagons can occur so that's not it! so she's lying, but she just can't case me because there's nothing to case.
if you think about a tvt nancy vs std scenario, flea has been there egging the two of you on. she has also been openly pocketing nancy, and i had that noted.

meanwhile, i get it if you don't want to join. you actually have a good partner equity with flea. maybe voting her out and her flipping scum would convince me otherwise.

If you don't want to use fae/faer for me, use they/them please.

I'm also currently riding a nasty ass pain flare.

But sure, reasons I'm scum are I have some form of a scum read on you all game, and I don't deal with people who claim scum. Interesting. Also accusing me of copping out is amusing, more than happy to bring the pain depending on how tonight goes for me.

That you're insisting on being cased is making me think you're paranoid about something and so close to deadline that reeks of you're hiding something or anxiety is eating you.

Personally, I'd like more time on the clock because then I can interact and look over you, your reactions and emotional variance as we go and get a better vibe of your alignment.

There's a saying I love, and it's "Fuck around and Find out".

[Flea The Magician]

fae has been calling you scum too, but never voted that way. instead going on and off on N_M because it's a non-controversial position to take (N_M is anti-town, you guys!)

Almost like I made efforts to sort StD a priority because we often clash.

[Flea The Magician]

also if fae really believed flashwagons can happen, why not go for n_m right now who fae believed to be scum all day rather than go for hem who fae has no interest in seeing get elimmed at end of day?

So fun misrep I notice you've caught on to, I've been saying NM is negative town utility. Not scum, in fact you're right in that I've made no real stance on NM and thats because NM will show themselves later to those observant enough - not me sadly but others. The way NM plays is aggressive and tunnelling. That Nancy was the initial target honestly worried me. That said, I got my Nancy town read from that.

Thing is, my D1 is naff, always has been, always will be.
I always feel I get better later.

[Flea The Magician]

fae has been calling you scum too, but never voted that way. instead going on and off on N_M because it's a non-controversial position to take (N_M is anti-town, you guys!)

to expound on this. i think it's interesting that flea takes the first opportunity to dump faer vote on my slot (even though fae doesn't believe fae can push me before eod!) because i "scumclaimed". it's a pattern of taking the low-risk votes despite presenting a pov where their votes could provide more weight according to the reads they present.

*sighs and points at all the lurker slots*

Easier fruit to take if I did that kinda thing.

[Flea The Magician]

thats why i believe you have partner equity. if not, fae has also been pocketing you or distancing from a town wagon. WHY NOT vote you when they scumread you? the reads and the votes should match, and they do not.

So fun fact, I will actively throw my buddies under the bus if I think it's needed to win.
I've even pushed and eliminated a lurker scumbuddy in one game previously (which may have cost the game looking back at it).

[Flea The Magician]

ill wait for faer to push me and back it up

Are you saying you're uncertain now?

yeah my whole thing was fae scumreads me but wouldn't go after me so that's kinda done

So you raised hell for 2 or 3 whole damn pages, because I didn't have as much time as I liked?

You know when I said the narrative writes itself?

Thanks.

[Flea The Magician]

And now you want us to trust you and follow onto the Kitty wagon.

so if i misread flea's post, how does that influence your probably scum read on kitty?

What even is this?

"Yo I fucked up, how does my fuck up influence your read on this totally unrelated player?"

[Flea The Magician]

I'm asking why you think we should trust you when you tried to force a flawed elim through based on trusting you

it's not a "trust me bro" i laid out my case and asked people to engage me

i literally readjusted my stance on flea when i realized i was wrong on reading a post of hers and set on waiting for her to push me

and now you just raised this to raise doubt for the kittywagon — who you maintain is probable scum? damn roden

Aight last warning.

You've been told at several points about my pronouns at this point.

You've seen my pride, now you're seeing my wrath.

████████

████████

████████

My pronouns are fae/faer or they/them. Several people have corrected you at this point, after this point that I'm writing if my pronouns are wrong I will ask for mod intervention.

████████

████████

████████

[Flea The Magician]

@Flea, I’m tending to agree with STD on HEM. I don’t understand you’re read?

Will elaborate from the start. As much as the painfog will let me, will be deep analysis.

[Flea The Magician]

FLEA

I felt like Flea has always been going for me, but faer push lacked oomph in trying to corner or develop a stronger read on me — even as fae continues to inform me about the game and even as we interact and even as we make the same reads. it felt like that read was never being developed because there really wasn't any case to make here that you could turn into a scum narrative but fae has already sunk faer position in and it's awkward to openly waffle.

what's scummy to me is fae votes me understanding that it's nearing deadline and that this is faer choice for elimination. and yet, fae doesn't feel the need to case me and convince others to join faer wagon. actions speaks — fae does not believe in this wagon. and for that fae was surescum for me. the argument was so strong in my head: flea does not have a town mindset in faer voting patterns and faer pushes. i have put out an entire page's worth of dialogue:

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=89510&start=1200
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=89510&start=1225

well, until recently that i realized i may have misunderstood faer last post and fae may have just slept through and will case me and pursue me later. That's the asterisk. Will fae? I guess I'll find out.

Unfortunately, in my frenzy to lim who i thought was pretty confirmed scum, I have made myself openly wrong about something. Uh oh. I was wrong and I acknowledged it. How can we follow humaneatingmonkey into battle? How can we sure that he really is a hero? Is he actually scum?

OK so I'm not overly vocal about my reads, and it has and continues to result in players unfamiliar with me asking for D1 reads lists.
I strongly disagree with "always going for [you]", you have been someone under my watch. My priorities so far have been sorting StD because honestly I struggle with him, and supporting Nancy getting my read on her fixed.

I had noticed there has been a few occasions our reads have aligned, I have noticed there's a few occasions you looked like you were trying to sort. They also looked a little superficial to me and didn't give me much to work with so I've been cautious around you. You don't always have to interact with someone to refine a read, and yes I've been somewhat interacting with you because my read on you wasn't actually significant until you decided to explode. hands up, I fed the fire, I wanted to see what you would do and you did a lot, and you're still doing a lot I see.

Thing is, I'm near constantly evaluating and re-evaluating slots I'm passively dealing with. While yes you admitted you fucked up, you shifted your sights almost seemlessly and haven't changed or provided any difference of opinion on my slot as everything you put has largely been invalidated. You fucked up. We don't follow you into battle.

[Flea The Magician]

KittyTacky (2): Not_Mafia, Save The Dragons

what a wagon

your theory is two scum buddies are voting you to silence you about one/both of them being scum and just hoping town falls on it

It wouldn't be very sus by itself but the wagon on you dissolved at the same time.

NANCY

I thought I was pushing harder than her. Or as hard. Also I'm easier to push than Nancy because I am LHF.

EVEN I PUSHED HARDER THAN YOU HAHAHA

Half my posts are about STD, what are you talking about mate?

I'll take the acknowledgment I shoved harder and that you didn't actually conceed that point.

[Flea The Magician]

18 hours left. Can we consolidate somewhere?

After sleeping on it, I think I'd rather keep HEM around another day. He says he wants to push me tomorrow, maybe I'll be able to sort him better once he puts together a scum case on me. I also want to see if he'll put his money where his mouth is and actually throw Pain potions at me.

Currently down to go for either NM or Kitty, preferably Kitty though.

VOTE: Kitty

I can consolodate there, but I'm concerned that's potentially a green flip if it comes to that, I'd rather go for information.

[Flea The Magician]

I'm unsure, this is bloody difficult one, but we are indeed running out of time
I think Nancy/Shiro could be town with Gamma and Flea

I also think there could potentially be a scum somewhere in HEM/Roden/STD

Where the fuck have you been all day? I'm sure you're generally more active in games.

[Flea The Magician]

no maybe not facebones

maybe actually roden, n_m, enchant

Yeah now I want Facebones. Lets see how the votes flow...

[Flea The Magician]

Who's the scum team, HEM?

Roden roden roden

Amazing

[Flea The Magician]

Im in the hosp right now so serious answers only later

Much love HEM, fingers crossed it not a long stay <3

[Flea The Magician]

Anyone down for VOTE: Facebones?

Gives me more time to rip into HEM tomorrow.

[Flea The Magician]

I'm unsure, this is bloody difficult one, but we are indeed running out of time
I think Nancy/Shiro could be town with Gamma and Flea

I also think there could potentially be a scum somewhere in HEM/Roden/STD

Where the fuck have you been all day? I'm sure you're generally more active in games.

I hate activity reads in general and I don’t sr any of his posts but from what I’ve read in a metadive, he is more active as town. I just wonder that if scum, his buddies wouldn’t coach him to do more. But I think he really hates playing scum. \_0_/

I’m guessing you think there’s associatives between him and HEM?

I guess seeing how the votes flow will help me decide.

~M

Mines not an activity read, mines just dude be lurking hard and is hardline doing nothing.

[Flea The Magician]

FB or HEM is my yeet options, I'm around all day checking intermittently.

[Flea The Magician]

Yeah you can go.

You've taken my post about KTacky and made it about you, you've spewed enough there for the information if youre scum and I will happily comb your posts for info.
Not only that, you're wanting someone to make your defence for you.

Your vibes are off FB, like way off.

[Flea The Magician]

I beg your pardon, you made it about me after you said you'd prefer to flip for info and your subsequent 4 out of 6 posts were shading me.
Vibes reasoning for a hopeful flashwagon this close to deadline is subpar, you've got to be more specific about why you think I'm scum.

And I ask again, what info will you get out of it if I flip scum?
What about town?

A scum flip is always better than an info flip, I'm confident your vibes are off enough for you to be scum here.
Wagonomics and VCA will give me some info, though I don't pretend to be half as good at it as others.

The fact you've been absent all day and suddenly boom we have a facebones is also working against you here.

If you are town, give us some reads to work with.

[Flea The Magician]

Wasn't a compromise, it was one I genuinely believed in. Not even sorry on that one. I need to put some time aside for this game which is likely to be tomorrow so I can reassess stuff.

[Flea The Magician]

Fuck forgot it was weekend and I was larping.
also larping tomorrow.

SO, I was convinced on FB. I'm still set on V&M town, honestly. HEM still stinks and ngl I've not reread but my gut and its hard to ignore my gut honestly.

I took no action last night.

[Flea The Magician]

absolutely killed myself over the weekend, am 10 pages behind, plz bearwith me while I catch up

[Flea The Magician]

ngl I am hard struggling to concentrate, wanna point me where?

[Flea The Magician]

not if v&m goes first

Doesn't work like that.

Makes you look scared and manipulative.

[Flea The Magician]

I am mentally checked out... and now there's gaslighting accusations....

[Flea The Magician]

Well I see a hammer dropped, lets see how good my gut is today

[Flea The Magician]

gg peeps, and dang I saved scum -.-;

[Flea The Magician]

genuinely don't get why I got doubled lol