Open 847 - Trust Fall [Game Over]

[Prism]

Open 847 - Trust Fall

Modded by Prism, setup by Kanna
Ruleset unashamedly plagiarized from Hectic, and for formatting I am greatly indebted to northsidegal

Game Status

Game Over!

Spoiler: And the result is...

A victory for the Town!

Players

Spoiler:

1. chavela
2. Pavowski
3. Enchant
4. humaneatingmonkey
5. Ydrasse

Andante

6. the worst

NorwegianboyEE

7. Greeting
8. bugspray
9. Meuh
10. Kuriyama

tris

Still Skeptical

Spoiler:

1. Pavowski
2. the worst

NorwegianboyEE

3. Greeting
4. bugspray

Made Their Exit

Spoiler:

1. humaneatingmonkey,

Vanilla Townie

, left with Enchant on Day 1!
2. Enchant,

Vanilla Townie

, left with humaneatingmonkey on Day 1!
3. Kuriyama,

Vanilla Townie

, left with Ydrasse on Day 2!
4. Ydrasse,

Vanilla Townie

, left with Kuriyama on Day 2!
5. chavela,

Vanilla Townie

, left with Meuh on Day 3!
6. Meuh,

Vanilla Townie

, left with chavela on Day 3!

Events

Day 1 Start | Day 1 End
Day 2 Start | Day 2 End
Day 3 Start | Day 3 End
Day 4 Start | Day 4 End
Postgame

[Prism]

Ruleset

1. Fundamentals

• All site-wide rules apply. Read and respect them.
  
• This is a game. Have fun, and keep the game fun for other people. This might be the most important rule.
  
• There is no personal communication regarding this game outside of this gamethread & associated PTs.
  
• Do not quote any private communication (either real or fabricated) with the moderator, backup moderator (in this case the listmod, Something_Smart), or fellow players. As this setup is open all PMs posted, quoting directly from your role PM is allowed, but please do not attempt to exploit this.
  
• Heated discussion and debate is allowed, but personal attacks are not. I reserve the right to protect my players, and all other community members. Please PM myself or the relevant listmod, Something_Smart, if you feel something needs our immediate intervention.
  
• Play to your win condition.

2. Phases & Activity

• Please post at least once every 36 hours. If you fail to do so, you will be prodded. If you fail to respond to said prod within 36 hours, you will be replaced.
  
• V/LA prod timers will be extended to 48 hours with 36 hours to respond; please contact me if you feel it will be a struggle to meet this.
  
• At the time you would receive a third prod, or fail to respond to a prod by posting in thread within 36 hours, you will be force replaced.
  
• Each phase shall have a standard 5 day deadline with the possibility for extensions for replacements.
  
• Trust votes must not be spoilered and should be in an unambiguous format such as VOTE: Player,
  Vote: Player
  ,
  I trust Player
  ,
  Trust: Player
  ,
  Offer: Player
  ,
  Accept: Player
  , HEAL: Player etc. Abbreviating someone's name is acceptable, so long as I can discern who you were voting for without trouble. If I think it should count as a vote or trust, it will.
  
• Unvoting, or removing a trust, is not possible in this setup.
  
• The following is a list of outlawed shenanigans:
  • Using invisible text, codes, cryptography, etc.
    
  • Editing your posts (if you have the power to do so)
    
  • Quoting any PTs you may have access to
• If any of these offenses are committed, I have the right to force-replace you from the game, or, with listmod permission, modkill you.

3. Miscellaneous

• My mod colour is #2F66A9; don't use it or anything similar.
  
• Feel free to address me in-thread, but if there is a particularly egregious mistake please PM me. Small matters like errors in the votecount can be posted in-thread.
  
• I have the final say on any issue. If you disagree with any action or inaction taken by me, feel free to PM myself or the relevant listmod, Something_Smart.
  
• While I have tried to be thorough, I reserve the right to take corrective action with or without warning for any issue I feel was omitted in this ruleset.

[Prism]

Setup & Mechanics

The setup is Trust Fall, with some additional voting restrictions.

• The role distribution is 8x
  Vanilla Townie
  and 2x
  Mafia Goon
  , representing the town and mafia factions respectively. Mafia Goons are are known to each other and have daytalk.


• The setup is nightless and does not have traditional eliminations. Instead, players form two player pairings by voting to "trust" one another.


• Mafia win when they have both exited the game. Town win when Mafia outnumbers them.


• When the trust is reciprocal, a valid pairing is formed and ends the day. This resets all trust votes, and any pairings formed in between the formation and public resolution will be be invalid.


• Players are only allowed one "initial" trust vote per gameday, but may accept another's offer at any time. To understand this concretely: If Prism offers a trust to Iverson, Prism will be unable to offer a trust to Faker the same gameday. However, if Faker offers a trust to Prism, Prism is allowed to accept the trust.


• Mafia cannot form a valid pairing and exit the game together. If attempted, the pairing will publicly fail.
  
• A pairing is immediately flipped once a valid pairing is formed. Players may not post in any gamethread once they are publicly flipped and the pairing resolved.


• An elapsed day deadline results in a free choice by the Mafia to be resolved 36 hours later. If the Mafia fail to select a valid pairing, the game will be resolved as a town win.


• If someone offers or accepts a valid trust, or creates the appearance of such, it will be resolved. If the action attempted is not valid, eg. the player has already offered a trust vote and attempts to offer a second, it will not be resolved, and no further action will be taken.

[Prism]

Sample Role PMs

Mafia Goon Sample PM

[PLAYER], you are a

Mafia Goon

. Your co-conspirator is [MAFIA GOON].

Abilities:

• At any time during the game, including during the confirmation phase, you may talk with your co-conspirator here: [MAFIA PRIVATE TOPIC]
• You have your voice and your trust vote. Use them wisely.

Basic Win Condition:

• You win if both mafia successfully form valid trust pairings and exit the game.

Vanilla Townie Sample PM

[PLAYER], you are a

Vanilla Townie

.

Abilities:

• You have your voice and your trust vote. Use them wisely.

Basic Win Condition:

• You win when the number of living Town players is less than or equal to the number of living Mafia players.

In addition to exactly one of the above role PMs, all players will receive the same spoiler highlighting important setup features & deadline conditions, along with a confirmation request. All three can be found here.

Role PM Addenda & Confirmation Message

Spoiler: Important setup notes

• A full description of the setup, including the rules of the setup and Vanilla Townie/Mafia Goon sample PMs, can be found here.
  
• You cannot move or rescind your single trust vote when placed. However, you may accept the offer of another player at any time. Trust votes reset at the start of a new phase.
• An elapsed day deadline results in a free choice by the Mafia to be resolved 36 hours later. If the Mafia fail to select a valid pairing, the game will be resolved as a town win.
• If someone offers or accepts a valid trust, or creates the appearance of such, it will be resolved. If the action attempted is not valid, eg. the player has already offered a trust vote and attempts to offer a second, it will not be resolved, and no further action will be taken.
• Mafia cannot form a valid pairing and exit the game together. If attempted, the pairing will publicly fail.

You have 36 hours to confirm by responding with your role name and the answers to the following three questions:

1. Can you offer more than one "initial" trust per gamephase?
2. Can you rescind a trust offer when extended?
3. If you have already offered a trust to Prism, can you accept an offered trust from Faker?

The game will start when all players confirm, and you can find the gamethread here.

[Prism]

All Role PMs have now been sent. Players have 36 hours to confirm before I seek a replacement:

(expired on 2022-03-09 10:00:00)

Additionally, while I failed to note this in the role PM, please do not hesitate to reach out to me if you have trouble understanding the mechanics of the setup or the confirmation questions. They are there to make sure everyone is on the same page, and I will gladly answer questions or rephrase to assist!

[Prism]

All players have confirmed. Day 1 will begin at 6 EST.

I have made a small amendment to how a trust can be posted. I will also allow something along the lines of

Offer: Player

,

Accept: Player

, HEAL: Player, etc.. All of these will be treated as valid trusts regardless of whether the label matches the action. These have been added to the ruleset, but the list of acceptable ways is nonexhaustive: Just bold it and try to make it unambiguous.

If I think it's a trust, I'm counting it!

[Prism]

Day 1 has begun, and you may now post. The deadline is in (expired on 2022-03-13 18:00:00).

[Prism]

Trust Tracker 1.0

Player	Trust Voter
Distrustful (10)	chavela, Pavowski, Enchant, humaneatingmonkey, Andante, NorwegianboyEE, Greeting, bugspray, Meuh, tris

No valid trust pairing has been formed. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2022-03-13 18:00:00).

[Prism]

Trust: The Prism

I am flattered, and will take the chance to make explicit that an invalid attempt will not burn your single trust vote!

[Prism]

Trust Tracker 1.1

Player	Trust Voter
humaneatingmonkey (1)	Enchant (163)
Distrustful (9)	chavela, Pavowski, humaneatingmonkey, Andante, NorwegianboyEE, Greeting, bugspray, Meuh, tris

No valid trust pairing has been formed. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2022-03-13 18:00:00).

[Prism]

@Prism

I have a question. Is it possible for more pairings to occur during twilight?

No.

[Prism]

Global reminder to stay respectful of others. I will issue more targeted warnings and/or force replacements if necessary. Please do not escalate further.

[Prism]

Trust Tracker 1.2

Player	Trust Voter
humaneatingmonkey (1)	Enchant (163)
chavela (1)	bugspray (422)
Distrustful (8)	chavela, Pavowski, humaneatingmonkey, Andante, NorwegianboyEE, Greeting, Meuh, tris

No valid trust pairing has been formed. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2022-03-13 18:00:00).

[Prism]

Trust Tracker 1.3

Player	Trust Voter
chavela (2)	bugspray (422), humaneatingmonkey (471)
humaneatingmonkey (1)	Enchant (163)
Distrustful (7)	chavela, Pavowski, Andante, NorwegianboyEE, Greeting, Meuh, tris

No valid trust pairing has been formed. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2022-03-13 18:00:00).

[Prism]

Andante will be replaced.

tris has been prodded.

[Prism]

Ydrasse replaces Andante. 15 minutes will be added to the deadline to compensate.

The new Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2022-03-13 18:15:00).

[Prism]

Trust Tracker 1.4

Player	Trust Voter
chavela (2)	bugspray (422), humaneatingmonkey (471)
humaneatingmonkey (1)	Enchant (163)
Distrustful (7)	chavela, Pavowski, Ydrasse, NorwegianboyEE, Greeting, Meuh, tris

No valid trust pairing has been formed. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2022-03-13 18:15:00).

[Prism]

tris will be replaced.

[Prism]

Kuriyama replaces tris. 30 minutes will be added to the deadline to compensate.

The new Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2022-03-13 18:45:00).

[Prism]

Trust Tracker 1.5

Player	Trust Voter
chavela (2)	bugspray (422), humaneatingmonkey (471)
humaneatingmonkey (1)	Enchant (163)
Distrustful (7)	chavela, Pavowski, Ydrasse, NorwegianboyEE, Greeting, Meuh, Kuriyama

No valid trust pairing has been formed. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2022-03-13 18:45:00).

[Prism]

NorwegianboyEE will be replaced.

[Prism]

Thought I should make this explicit: The deadline is paused while any slot remains vacant.

[Prism]

the worst replaces NorwegianboyEE. 14 hours and 40 minutes will be added to the deadline to compensate.

The new Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2022-03-14 09:25:00).

[Prism]

Trust Tracker 1.6

Player	Trust Voter
chavela (2)	bugspray (422), humaneatingmonkey (471)
humaneatingmonkey (1)	Enchant (163)
Distrustful (7)	chavela, Pavowski, Ydrasse, the worst, Greeting, Meuh, Kuriyama

No valid trust pairing has been formed. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2022-03-14 09:25:00).

[Prism]

Trust Tracker 1.7

Player	Trust Voter
chavela (2)	bugspray (422), humaneatingmonkey (471)
humaneatingmonkey (1)	Enchant (163)
Enchant (1)	humaneatingmonkey (1082)
Distrustful (7)	chavela, Pavowski, Ydrasse, the worst, Greeting, Meuh, Kuriyama

A valid trust pairing has been formed! Day 1 is over, stand by for resolution.

[Prism]

humaneatingmonkey and Enchant have formed a pairing and exited the game!

humaneatingmonkey was a

[/b]

Vanilla Townie

[/b]

.

Enchant was a

[/b]

Vanilla Townie

[/b]

.

[Prism]

Day 2 has begun, and you may now post. The deadline is in (expired on 2022-03-18 11:00:00).

[Prism]

Trust Tracker 2.0

Player	Trust Voter
Distrustful (8)	chavela, Pavowski, Ydrasse, the worst, Greeting, bugspray, Meuh, Kuriyama

No valid trust pairing has been formed. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2022-03-18 11:00:00).

[Prism]

Trust Tracker 2.1

Player	Trust Voter
Kuriyama (1)	Ydrasse (1101)
Distrustful (7)	chavela, Pavowski, the worst, Greeting, bugspray, Meuh, Kuriyama

No valid trust pairing has been formed. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2022-03-18 11:00:00).

[Prism]

Trust Tracker 2.2

Player	Trust Voter
Kuriyama (1)	Ydrasse (1101)
Ydrasse (1)	the worst (1156)
Distrustful (6)	chavela, Pavowski, Greeting, bugspray, Meuh, Kuriyama

No valid trust pairing has been formed. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2022-03-18 11:00:00).

[Prism]

Trust Tracker 2.3

Player	Trust Voter
Meuh (2)	Pavowski (1305), bugspray (1306)
Kuriyama (1)	Ydrasse (1101)
Ydrasse (1)	the worst (1156)
Distrustful (4)	chavela, Greeting, Meuh, Kuriyama

No valid trust pairing has been formed. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2022-03-18 11:00:00).

[Prism]

Trust Tracker 2.4

Player	Trust Voter
Meuh (2)	Pavowski (1305), bugspray (1306)
Kuriyama (1)	Ydrasse (1101)
Ydrasse (1)	the worst (1156)
the worst (1)	Greeting (1319)
Distrustful (3)	chavela, Meuh, Kuriyama

No valid trust pairing has been formed. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2022-03-18 11:00:00).

[Prism]

Trust Tracker 2.5

Player	Trust Voter
Meuh (2)	Pavowski (1305), bugspray (1306)
Ydrasse (2)	the worst (1156), Kuriyama (1384)
Kuriyama (1)	Ydrasse (1101)
the worst (1)	Greeting (1319)
Distrustful (2)	chavela, Meuh

A valid trust pairing has been formed! Day 2 is over, stand by for resolution.

[Prism]

Kuriyama and Ydrasse have formed a pairing and exited the game!

Kuriyama was a

[/b]

Vanilla Townie

[/b]

.

Ydrasse was a

[/b]

Vanilla Townie

[/b]

.

[Prism]

Day 3 has begun, and you may now post. The deadline is in (expired on 2022-03-20 16:45:00).

[Prism]

Trust Tracker 3.0

Player	Trust Voter
Distrustful (6)	chavela, Pavowski, the worst, Greeting, bugspray, Meuh

No valid trust pairing has been formed. The Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2022-03-20 16:45:00).

[Prism]

Trust Tracker 3.1

Player	Trust Voter
Meuh (1)	bugspray (1392)
Distrustful (5)	chavela, Pavowski, the worst, Greeting, Meuh

No valid trust pairing has been formed. The Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2022-03-20 16:45:00).

[Prism]

Trust Tracker 3.2

Player	Trust Voter
Meuh (2)	bugspray (1392), the worst (1395)
Distrustful (4)	chavela, Pavowski, Greeting, Meuh

No valid trust pairing has been formed. The Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2022-03-20 16:45:00).

[Prism]

Trust Tracker 3.3

Player	Trust Voter
Meuh (3)	bugspray (1392), the worst (1395), chavela (1439)
chavela (1)	Meuh (1444)
Distrustful (2)	Pavowski, Greeting

A valid trust pairing has been formed! Day 3 is over, stand by for resolution.

[Prism]

chavela and Meuh have formed a pairing and exited the game!

chavela was a

[/b]

Vanilla Townie

[/b]

.

Meuh was a

[/b]

Vanilla Townie

[/b]

.

A win condition has been achieved.

[/font][/b]

The Mafia Goons,

Pavowski

and

[/font][/b]

bugspray

, have failed to earn the town's trust.

[/font]

The Town has won Open 847 - Trust Fall!

[Prism]

PT Links to follow in this post, I will allow 48 hours for the Mafia to request any desired redactions in their PT before release.

Mod PT
Mafia PT
Trusted/Spectator PT

The game is now over, and you may post.

[Prism]

I just realized I didn't post the scumteam lmao, this has now been edited in. Never happened!

[Prism]

Congratulations to the town on a well-earned victory!

Some comments on play: I think scum fundamentally took the wrong approach starting near the end of Day 1. They started out fine with reads, solves, interactions, etc. but never progressed to actually suggesting pairings. bugspray's trust vote on chavela was the last real proactive moment up until the final implosion that I'll get to in a second. They were still going to lose 90%+ of the time, but they had single digit chances near the end of Day 2 as long as they stayed put, started being proactive/sharpened up, and bet on town messing up. Pavowski's tone+nervous passivity was really rough this game, but bugspray still had a chance of getting a trust and therefore making it harder on the town...and then the Meuh trusts. I thought the Meuh trusts were an absolute disaster and just about lost my mind when I woke up to them. Complete misplay because it immediately meant leaving both of the scumteam out was the best mechanical option.

Town did a very good job of realizing that the people proactively suggesting real pairings were town, not rocket science.

[Prism]

Overall, on the moderation side, I was pretty happy with this game minus the one replacement spree.

Thanks to everyone who stuck around, and of course thanks to Ydrasse, Kuriyama, and the worst for saving the day with the replacements. I hope you all enjoyed it!

I was very concerned by the discourse between HEM and bugspray early - both in the level of language and in the accusations being levied. It shot my anxiety through the roof when HEM pulled out receipts showing bugspray previously utilized similar behavior to further a wincon, but things fortunately fizzled out.

While I think players should put a premium on their own well-being, I was not happy to see the NorwegianboyEE replace out. Kuriyama stuck to critiquing play and was never even close to out of bounds. It virtually cleared the slot. Seeing them complain about Kuriyama's read on me in Divide & Conquer was also puzzling considering Norwegian went 0/2 for the entire 3 days they were alive, and actively discouraged scumreads on me, while I instantly killed Kuriyama N1 after already cashing in a giant horde of meta for a single-day townread.

[Prism]

I felt like we were truly fooked even before the Meuh trusts ... it was a last ditch effort to do something to shake things up, but eh.

I think the panic was understandable, but it's sort of "What makes the best of a bad scenario?" deal.

I gave it a single-digit win chance but mafia can be an unpredictable game and bugspray was kind of clawing their way back into it, and when you get one mafia flip things get wild and a top town isn't available to trust. Town pairing Day 2 and scum pairing Day 3 was the hail mary play IMO.

Qualitative play pointed to 4/5 players being town, but mechanically they had a lot of uncertainty hanging around and just 2/3 solid signs. Both of you trusting Meuh basically gave them 4 solid bets, and suddenly mechanics says pair these 4 town players...so of course they do.

[Prism]

I love this setup and was very happy to run it.

I love the flipped dynamic: In a regular game, town is most likely to misvote, and the mafia safest, on Day 1, and each day the pool narrows and gets a bit harder for scum to dodge the vote. It's the opposite in Trust Fall. Even as they get cornered, scum gets a lifeline in the form of the narrowed pool and more favorable odds.

[Prism]

I liked how the trusts worked out this game, though I did hate quizzing everyone pregame.

There are a few hallmarks to Trust Fall that were important for me to keep. Individuals are given a lot of power in this setup, and one wrong read from one town player can make or break the game. Simultaneously, I think Koba throwing/trolling the previous iteration exposed that one town player can singularly strip away the decisionmaking of the entire game by multitrusting. Some suggestions to make other town "approve" trusts I felt were antithetical to the spirit of the setup, which empowers the individual.

The idea behind "one offer per player" was to keep that individual power/decisionmaking without letting any one person seize complete mechanical control of the game. I think it worked out well, but I'm open to feedback.

Spoiler: And for Enchant...

bugspray x enchant
let's make it happen
#EnSpray

Also how, Bugspray and Enchant has both already placed their trust vote.

They added this stupid rule after DkKuba yoloed 3 ppl at once (and left with scum) and i threatened to randomtrust every 24 hours if game will stall.

Probably makes sense.

Probably not and stupid rule then.

It's stupid, now i dying from boredom.

[Prism]

I thought about that, but the actual number after 1 is pretty arbitrary, and you'd have everyone forgetting their limit, claiming to have forgotten their limit, mafia having to check the limits for fakes, the moderator has to keep a tally either public or private, etc.

My thinking with exactly one, no takebacks, is to put a certain finality to that individual agency I highlighted. It gives the trust more weight and importance even as I cap the multitrusts.

I think it'd work to have any number or unlimited as usually played, but getting everyone on the same page without getting distracted by counting games is a major headache.

[Prism]

(And fundamentally you still get the multitrust hijacking issue)

[Prism]

The scum PT has been released.

[Prism]

This poses problems when your dislike of a playstyle compromises entire games and wrecks it for other players (in this case the scumteam), but that is a question of long-term trend and for the site administration rather than myself.

[Prism]

To be clear, I am glad that you replaced out when you realized you hit that point. The price of game integrity

is

worth it at that juncture.

That generalization, though, once realized is something fundamental that should be addressed before wrecking other games in the future.

[Prism]

I definitely credit dayplay for the town win rather than a specific replace-out's alignment implications. The slot wasn't even in any of the pairings.

I don't think that portrayal of rules on discussing replace-outs is accurate, but maybe it's tucked in there somewhere. I'm out right now and can't easily doublecheck. The follow-up discussions on the new rules were labryinthian, contradictory, and the moderation team repeatedly broached new topics and rules without recognizing they had done so. For all I know they outlawed claiming VT somewhere.

I think it's a good rule, and rule of thumb, if nothing else-I believe MU has it.

[Prism]

Other players, though, might disagree with my and your diagnostics on the game. I would take a look at the scum PT to get a gauge on where they believe they went wrong, whether I agree or not.

[Prism]

The rule on replacements (and discussion of replacing out) is still the same -

you're allowed to discuss a replacement after it has happened.

You are not allowed to publicly discuss replacing out, eg by announcing that you intend to replace out or telling someone else to replace out.