Open 847 - Trust Fall [Game Over]
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chavela (leanin on mech a bit)
enchant
bugspray
humaneatingmonkey
^ i hope all town
greeting
kuriyama
ydrasse
pavowski
meuh
thereabouts
pedit: ... lol-
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ooh i'm keen for your read hereIn post 357, chavela wrote:meuh the most likely non-me town right now
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=89054&start=375
i know this is a bit tepid but the innate disconnect between hem/chavela here comes from t/t long before anything else, i don't think scum!hem is incentivised to play this rough and it kinda just pings sincere + a weird way to approach chavela anti-charismatically
kind of glazing over a lot of stuff-
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i.. think the fact ydraase and i just epicly agree about the scumteam means i'm wrong on one of them and ydrasse is scum-
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kind of simply, i don't think they're approaching this game the way they would as scumIn post 811, chavela wrote:why town!bugspray?
eeehhhhh i like 31.7% want to be paired todayIn post 811, chavela wrote:would you want to be paired today?
haven't decided yet. i'd be fine with 2 of my townreads leaving together too. or really whatever people want, it's a game with incredibly high individual slot agency and i'm along for the ride.In post 811, chavela wrote:if not i assume you would simply want an existing trust offer to be accepted and no others to be made yeah?-
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deep breaths worst, deep breaths, don't be scaredIn post 815, Ydrasse wrote:
that's entirely a you problemIn post 812, the worst wrote:i.. think the fact ydraase and i just epicly agree about the scumteam means i'm wrong on one of them and ydrasse is scum-
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i'm screaming internally eternally
i don't really feel like this is an innocently-intended postIn post 468, Pavowski wrote:Not going to dive too far into Monkey/Chav except to say it gives me some +Chav vibes and some -Monkey vibes
Tonally Chav is consistent and the resistance/paranoia around Monkey feels fine
Monkey seems fixated on this slot above several others ... maybe it's because Chav is engaging more than most (and they do seem to have history)
But fixating on one slot kinda ... doesn't make sense as a town play
Like, Monkey has stated intent to stay on the island as designated solver, so, why so determined to get a townread from Chav?
Motivation as scum makes more sense here ... like ... I could see the scumchat saying "If I can pocket Chav that would set up x, y, and z"
That being said I still lean towny on Monkey from general play and I'm feeling pretty towny on Chav too-
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i'm a lil wary that greeting isn't able to comment on anything but setup strategy but not really sure that's a scumtell in trust fallIn post 501, Greeting wrote:shorter-
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i think the answer to that question is a lot less exciting than you'd expect.In post 827, Enchant wrote:
Why 31.7% and not 2000%the worst wrote:
kind of simply, i don't think they're approaching this game the way they would as scumIn post 811, chavela wrote:why town!bugspray?
eeehhhhh i like 31.7% want to be paired todayIn post 811, chavela wrote:would you want to be paired today?
haven't decided yet. i'd be fine with 2 of my townreads leaving together too. or really whatever people want, it's a game with incredibly high individual slot agency and i'm along for the ride.In post 811, chavela wrote:if not i assume you would simply want an existing trust offer to be accepted and no others to be made yeah?
any questions about anything else?-
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i can see where the alarm bells come from. i'm wary that this is as likely to be a personality tell for HEM (abrasive and self-confident) as it is to be a scumtell for HEM.In post 828, chavela wrote:
here it is:In post 816, chavela wrote:
humaneatingmonkey and i had a very similar interaction previously when humaneatingmonkey was mafia will find itIn post 810, the worst wrote:
ooh i'm keen for your read hereIn post 357, chavela wrote:meuh the most likely non-me town right now
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=89054&start=375
i know this is a bit tepid but the innate disconnect between hem/chavela here comes from t/t long before anything else, i don't think scum!hem is incentivised to play this rough and it kinda just pings sincere + a weird way to approach chavela anti-charismatically
kind of glazing over a lot of stuff
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86693&start=675
has almost the same path of
thought you were town but then you did this > engages interaction to then say and now this also!
and in my previous interactions with town!humaneatingmonkey it has generally felt more head on
and much less like trying to drag me into quicksand
there's a couple of differences between that game and this game which stick out to me tonally. i'm aware i know the monkey was scum in that game and i don't know the monkey's alignment in this game so it's possible i'm confirmation biasing slightly, but i did feel like HEM believed in the point more this time?
i won't deep dive too much because i'm more interested in checking your opinion of this than like, convincing anyone of my half-baked opinion.
i will admit i don't like, fully understand what HEM was getting at during your lengthy conversation, nor do I care a whole bunch. but it presented as having a lot more depth to it here vs. in the linked game. "your read on jake is bad therefore is made up therefore you're scum" is just genuinely an unproductive and insincere approach to take. not going to go into the scumtells i see in the other game which are missing here. i feel like i can see an evolution of thought in the way HEM is trying to approach your argument here (where the linked game is quite rigid). i also feel like in the linked game HEM seemed pretty drawn to that innate scum need to be viewed as a ~winner~ of the conversation or not lose ground, whereas in this game i just feel like HEM is trying to make their point.
Spoiler:
vs. the linked game is just taking far too long to post that thing i said about like "why do you have this read on jake also your read on jake is fake and you're scum !!!!!!" which, is super two-dimensional and HEM spent far too long on it imo. here i felt like HEM was trying to get at something which the monkey probably actually believed in?
i'd also point to a subtle tonal difference between the games. in the linked game i don't think HEM was trying to really make a point which HEM believed in? whereas here i think HEM was genuinely frustrated that there was a disconnect, which makes me feel like the monkey was looking for some kind of actual spark or like, game advancement, which didn't happen. just quoting the posts in both games in which HEM stepped down because i think both portray the tonality i'm seeing.
In post 751, humaneatingmonkey wrote:i got what i needed, thank you.In post 474, humaneatingmonkey wrote:you have it, you have the towncrown. i concede. go solve.
also;
this is so magical.In post 731, Anya wrote:shiki is a shining river filled with cities-
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do you think i'm basic? or are you not interested in talking about reads?In post 830, Enchant wrote:Are this have refering to "i want to stay and help making pairs"?
or both, both is fine. i'm a bit basic so this isn't an edged question.-
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ditto + i think the way HEM ceded the point is a lot more earnest.In post 834, Kuriyama wrote:
I think the way he is intransigent towards you felt kind of townie to meIn post 798, chavela wrote:and if there’s reason for townreading humaneatingmonkey beyond ‘hasn’t accepted trust offer’ i guess i am interested in that as well
you're better at words.-
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i'd be fine with ench/hem. i think enchant is honestly too abstract to leave clear associatives, so that world probably defaults to us yelling at each other until the most charismatic players exit two by two.-
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i actually think i do like you for town ydrasse
i also think you're absolutely rad but that's less pertinent to winning open 847 !!!-
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i don't really think i'm seeing anything ai in the flirty vibes from kuriyama/ydrasse. don't really think that kind of pocketing works with grumpy experienced social deduction people tbh.
got a fairly strong gut alt-read on kuriyama and i am fairly certain it's just a personality quirk for them-
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probably partly. idk if it helps but i think enchant is kinda towny partly because they're playing so loose. it's pretty hard to tell what they're thinking but they're making like literally no strides to be any combination of trustworthy, earnest, charismatic, etc.In post 901, chavela wrote:and it’s not like enchant always plays that way - my experience of town!enchant was much more downhill then that, but idk if the difference can be explained by the setup, potentially can
i don't really feel like enchant is the type of player to take a setup like this (one pocketed towny can be insta-win) and just nosedive into an anti-charisma playstyle?
enchant is also somewhat chaotic i guess.-
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this one yaIn post 903, Kuriyama wrote:this might be a really dumb reason but i kind of townread enchant for being not funny-
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this is genuinely funnyIn post 923, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
yes exactlyIn post 916, Meuh wrote:Bugs shouldn’t be concerned about being partnered (if they’re town) and so by being concerned, they’re scummy?
i think it's a perspective slip where bugs didn't realize they were supposed to be town. bugs was highlighting the chance that enchant would hit mafia by trusting them. there was no chance to hit mafia if they were town.-
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soulread, i don't think they're playing a scumgame.
i'd also be really sad if they accepted regardless of their alignment so i have decided to not-
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kuri/hem/chavela, would you consider this game significantly easier to solve with my flip or no? i don't really have a sense for it yet.
pedit: knew i could trust u kuri <3-
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i'm guessing this isn't directed at me, but please let me know if it was!In post 980, chavela wrote:like saying ‘oh that’d be bad scumplay’ (even though one of those reads pivoted on norwegianboyee replacement already)
doesn’t make the action towny in anyway?-
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if we need to cut the hem/enchant convo in half i'll trust enchant. i just trust myself lategame more than i trust myself earlygame. but if i'm in a sticky slot then etc.-
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ohhhhhh. i don't think scum are incentivised to accept a pairing this close to deadline.-
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i would do it because i do not think that enchant would accept it!In post 989, humaneatingmonkey wrote:hold on so why do that trust, the worst? what's the rush? don't you want me and enchant to finally leave the game?-
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increases enchant's town equity a lot, which makes this convo more interesting-
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because i do not think that kuriyama would accept it!In post 993, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
can you tell me why you would set up a trust between Kuruyama and you, instead of waiting out Enchant and I?In post 990, the worst wrote:
i would do it because i do not think that enchant would accept it!In post 989, humaneatingmonkey wrote:hold on so why do that trust, the worst? what's the rush? don't you want me and enchant to finally leave the game?-
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yaIn post 998, chavela wrote:
and this seems worth the potential risk?In post 994, the worst wrote:increases enchant's town equity a lot, which makes this convo more interesting-
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if you don't think it's worth the risk: what are you doing to avoid an enchant flip?-
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i don't think either of them are scum. that's the point.-
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not a soul. truly, you have bamboozled us all.In post 1003, humaneatingmonkey wrote:idk no one can stop me from leaving the game, right?-
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i think you're ok unless you claim to be scum with someone. i regularly claim scum.-
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yes it does. i feel like you're seeing a problem in this but i genuinely don't see what you're seeing. variables which conform with gamestate & reads are rad.In post 1010, chavela wrote:
? enchant flips at status quo? and i have said multiple times i might trust before i am going to be absent again if it seems correct to meIn post 1000, the worst wrote:if you don't think it's worth the risk: what are you doing to avoid an enchant flip?
so you offering enchant just adds variables-
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it would mean i can disrupt a conversation which is getting stale. i'm actually pleased the convo changed from enchant's alignment because i don't think that convo is productive.-
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if there are uncertainties about enchant's alignment, the answer is simple. someone who doesn't townread enchant needs to disrupt status quo because they think scum are about to flip.
pondering endlessly about enchant's alignment without doing anything to advance reads or check other players' alignments is a waste of posts. mafia games get too fluffed up with that kinda stuff. let's be productive.-
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i think enchant is town and i think town are leading this game! i'm quite pleased with status quo. are you not?In post 1017, chavela wrote:weigh in on conversations being had about other players alignments then? or start those conversations?-
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from this i kind of thought you were caught on enchant, my bad. what's your take on kuriyama?In post 936, chavela wrote:
wait can you answer question onIn post 934, humaneatingmonkey wrote:i think that's why i'm leaving the game too. to put my solve to the test, and if it really was a shitty solve, then at least you cool kids can clean up nicely.
enchant’s towniness compared to the worst please? or again if you already did i may have missed it sorry-
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i thought chav's catchup was a bit boring. i think their reads are changing since then which is more interesting to me. i don't think it's really in scum!their benefit to do a boring catchup then change reads based on who is in the game + vocal + hard to pocket. i think that's probably more likely to come from an innocent approach to the game than one which is motivated by pocketing players to get removed from the game.
i don't really have a rebuttal for your issues with kuri's opening. it wasn't interesting. i don't think i really value being confbiased during catchup as a scumtell, because catching up on games isn't very revealing of alignment imo.
sorry if this wasn't what you were looking for. i have to admit i kinda didn't totally parse that you thought kuri was scum for that.-
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kuri's catchup* sorryIn post 1026, the worst wrote:i thought chav's catchup was a bit boring.-
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what's your read on kuri, like independently of that?In post 1032, bugspray wrote:
being anti town doesn't make you scum and vice versaIn post 965, Kuriyama wrote:tunneling someone as scum in this setup is quite bad-
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i think kuri was somewhat quick to townread me but i don't think that immediately townreading me on rep-in is like, a particularly sensible or intuitive decision. i think it's kind of reflexive. agreed, it's kind of hard to decisively case someone in this kind of setup.In post 1035, chavela wrote:
like in terms of what would happen if you put their reads into actionsIn post 1031, the worst wrote:define game actions?
there isn’t much difference between you being scum or not until later
only potential benefit for scum kuriyama
as i assume norwee replace didn’t vault you to the top of the town list-
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i think my solve improves a lot by finding 2 confident town in [pav, ydra, greeting, bugs, meuh, kuri]. so defs predisposed towards looking for town motivation in there, if that helps.
pedit: i'm definitely willing to admit that a lot of my read is "i don't think this is scum" vs. "i think this is strongly town"-
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my shoulder devil was like "heyyy duck what if we trusted kuriyama....." but then i decided not to. there's not much more to it than that sorry, just a whim.-
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not being a pain at all btw, asking questions is what we're here for. this has helped me calibrate how strongly i should be feeling abt kuriyama.-
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you and enchant are my otp. there's several reasons i talk about making trusts without making trusts.-
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it's quite hard to guess. scum are comfortable with the status quo, or scum feel unable to influence the status quo, or bugspray is scum. fwiw i do think the current core is quite hard to interfere with.-
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honestly if i was scumming here i'd probably vibe and just let one of you two (chavela 228 (21.73%); hem 191 (18.21%)) leave
indeed, as a wise monkey once said,In post 1050, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
okay for a while there i really thought i caught you in the act of trying to disrupt our trust so you can carve a quick get-awayIn post 1047, the worst wrote:you and enchant are my otp. there's several reasons i talk about making trusts without making trusts.In post 1019, humaneatingmonkey wrote:guys im scum-
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i literally can't stop trying to charm my way out of stuff. i don't even have anything to weasel out of here and i'm trying to be cute. it's compulsive.-
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i'm also secretly starting to townread meuh. but i'm not happy about it.
pedit: asdfghjkl;'-
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[bugs,ydra,pav] could contain 2/2
ok catch y'all in f6In post 1062, Meuh wrote:
Take the lurkpill, duckling…In post 1060, the worst wrote:i'm also secretly starting to townread meuh. but i'm not happy about it.
pedit: asdfghjkl;'-
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just to be clear I do not give much credit to the s/s theory. Its nonzero but I think there are several far more probable worlds and id just be very impressed.-
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