Open 843 - Divide & Conquer - Game Over!
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I'm sorry. I cannot do this anymore. Other than my spats with Dunnstral this gameday has been fine but I'm burnt out both IRL and here.
VOTE: innocentvillager
I'm sorry IV. I know I promised a response but I'm tired. This does not come without thought. I have worked over your ISO several times. I think your play today is scummy. I think Esther's is very, very clean bordering on perfect if scum. I promise I read every word so if I'm wrong get your shot in and just leave it, I don't want to argue anymore. There is beauty in process and doing things the right way but I'm just done. I'm burnt out. I suck. I'm done. I want out.
I am also especially sorry to Brighter-town if I am wrong. Again.
If people prefer Dwlee instead I can go there but I am not voting Dunnstral today. If he's been doing this on purpose it's fair game and about time I got a taste of my own medicine but our reads match and there's no reason for him to accommodate going in 3 today if he's scum with esther. Dwlee was set to get flipped.-
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I'm so set on you being scum that I didn't hammer you yesterday, insisted on IV, and had Dunnstral as my top vote yesterday.
You're currently voting in 6 despite acknowledging 3 was better and I just went over why you were scummy to me, just presented why you are the most likely partner for IV, only to have you go "ok but i was unsure"-
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Thank you for being so understanding, regardless of alignment. I'm sorry that I broke my promise.In post 1142, innocentvillager wrote:Im disappointed you’ve incorrectly decided Esther is the town but you’re in an unenviable position. if I get a chance tomorrow I will try to sway you but it seems you’re too far deep somehow-
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I'm glad that you can type from your informed perspective but can't put half of that shit into words and expect me to hunt through a million different posts to do all of the work instead right after I just stared at two ISOs for hours and came to the exact opposite conclusion.
My fault for Day 1 but I am absolutely sick of this game.-
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I get that our styles conflict and we rarely agree, and again same thing as with IV, if I'm wrong, sorry, it is not for lack of reading or effort and what I do give you just blatantly shove to the side and assume that I should see it's genuine. If you think it is so obvious you are town and I am the World's Biggest Moron put together the case for it and present it instead of expecting me to do literally everything-
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By "clean" play, I mean I do not think esther has been even slightly opportunistic today, and has not been hesitant in hunting in 6, selling her case, and ruling out others (eg. on Dunnstral). Her points have all been natural to me, her realtime interactions too, and the only one I thought was out there was the one about me pushing to go in 6. If she hasn't played with me before she also will not understand my scum POV on strategy.
1048 in particular I want to highlight as a very, very good post. I took a very different angle on the IV post that I will discuss in a second, and it definitely has scum incentive in trying to nudge me along, but is more likely just chewing seriously on the partner question and what motivate IV to give that read.
I saw your tonal point, but I didn't find it persuasive. I talked about it earlier. I do similar as scum, but I copied it after losing to town players repeatedly. They're also very open about the approach, which again might just be the next layer of scumplay, but it is again extremely clean if so.
I think IV's day leans on the scum side, too. I again think the cut-off check-in and how little fight in him he has is indicative, and if I am wrong then okay. I read through the wall, and while it may have been the tilt, I did not find it cohesive or convincing, particularly in points like "Why is esther so calm?" when as scum she has more reason to be nervous and struggle to post, while IV's "calm" has been in the form of lost energy at a time when I expect he would have gone harder. He does not like playing scum and gets very demotivated even if he can put up a good fight when needed, and I think the wall lines up with that. His defense of me today, when I was not on the table but IV was, really suggested to me it was an attempt to win my vote back before it slipped.-
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I have been wary repeatedly of players just playing extremely "clean" scumgames, which to me is largely an intuitive concept just because I have a strong internalized compass for what is the right play as scum and what isn't, but every single time they have been town. There is a very limited sample, and I'm sure it will happen, and maybe it is this game.
I did not actually skim her scumplay as part of that vote but skimming it now it is IMO a step down from her play this game, even with the scum advantage of multiball. The level of play might have been just lower across the board, but again, if she's scum and I'm wrong, OK.
The full list of things wrong is like 1. Pushing in 6 for a bit on Day 1 2. The push on me today is arguably a hail mary. The only other things I see to really criticize are like surface-level reads at the very start of Day 1, which is totally plausible as town, or your inherent distrust of her tone today.-
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He's a very tonal player; I think reading him off of this is a mistake. I think bouncing this off of Norwegian's experience in 912 would go a long way.In post 1158, Brighter Puppy wrote:Nothing in his tone really screams scum to me. The most i get is waffling and not commital reads.
I cannot fully elaborate on my townread of IV early because it involves ongoing games, but stepping back to a holistic picture, I expected some degree of early reads (check!) as opposed to questioning, and think he wound up slipping backwards after Day 1. Specifically with esther, I expected a lot more because he typically goes door to door selling his scumreads even when they're off the wall.-
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I get that "clean"/"sharp" are very vague descriptors. I know there are 2/3 times it has happened, but the most vivid wasHectic in Undertale 2.0, and while I don't think you're concerned about my alignment I want to make it clear that I'm not just pulling random bullshit out of thin air on you. It's not making any "mistakes" day in and day out all week long.-
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I think you're misconstruing Dunnstral. Dunnstral said he already explained his reads, which he had [in general], even if not specifically to IV. I think this is par for the course for Dunnstral to avoid the restatement. He has discussed his reads, even if they are not that elaborate beyond the one on dwlee.
I think there are issues his play/lack thereof but don't see any indicator of PT-not-main-thread shenanigans.-
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What if some day or night a demon were to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness, and say to you, "This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything unutterably small or great in your life will have to return to you, all in the same succession and sequence [...]
Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment when you would have answered him: "You are a god and never have I heard anything more divine!"
Another day in the MafiaScum.net trenches. Fight from it, run from it, disown it, dread it, still it comes.-
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I am down to vote whatever gets us a flip.
I don't disagree with most of what you wrote in 1168. Simultaneously, Dunnstral shares my current reads and does this null lurkathon virtually every game. I do not think my line of reasoning yesterday on why he's not scum with esther is entirely right but I do not currently think esther is scum regardless. Preflips are again not my favorite.-
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For Norwegian, I thought several moments qualified as slimy, particularly in the wall. You're more familiar with 9:12 than I am so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Fundamentally your critique of esther is purely tonal. I think her tone today is fine, I had some issues Day 1, and I don't put a lot of stock in tone anyway unless I think that specific person would react differently.
I have entertained your solve repeatedly and don't share the reads. If your definition of "give your solve a chance" is to just throw my own judgment out the window it's probably not the worst idea in the world but meh.-
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...What specifically am I supposed to be looking at in this game?
Checking it against my own points he gives early reads freely, which is the recent thing I was watching for, and openly admits to struggling to play scum and claims it is his best game on record.
He admittedly did not write a Harry Potter book in reaction to anyone voting him that game but this came after already getting called out for effort so ?_? who knows-
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What I'm getting from this is that I just have to look at esther's tone, ignore all of the hunting in 6, all of the motions, not missing a step, etc. and feel in my heart of hearts that she is scum even when I actively hate things from the IV slot.
To be blunt: No.
If you think it's Dunnstral/esther feel free to vote Dunnstral.-
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Of me? Of Brighter? Of Dunnstral? Of IV? Of yourself?In post 1222, Save The Dragons wrote:I'm getting paranoid
Successfully did not spend all day reading. We call it a W.-
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Fundamentally it's up to you. I don't blame you if you don't want to as town, and I especially would not want you to if you're mafia because this game is 100% over and you should go to sleep instead.In post 1250, Dwlee99 wrote:You make me want to not even read these ISOs lmao
There's value in concurring with me if I am right, and if I am wrong that will again be on me. I will tell you I don't find tonal arguments on esther persuasive and would be more open to more specific criticism regarding her reads/play.
I have a headache and was just doing a check-in. I apologize but I am cutting my part for the night out here.-
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