Open 838 – ISITMAINAC [Endgame]

[Looker]

I don't have friends because I don't win mafia games

[Looker]

Sorry for the full 24 hours after the ego post, but I should have more stuff up tonight. There've been a lot of replacements.

[Looker]

I'm torn between following this plan...

Jacket if you're town this should be the easiest vote of your life. If I flip anything other than town, you won't get Vig'd. Seems like a pretty good deal to me, you get to eliminate me without any further argument here.

VOTE: Three

and pressing to see whether RH9 is shielding the ADSE wagon.

You can scumread me now.

Because I'm not lying about not being a PR.

To me, the miselimination was unlikely scumcoordinated because we know that RCEnigma, N_M, and CB are all Town. I know that I'm Town and I TR Nathann. Greeting and Scorpious don't seem like they are groupscum. Therefore, scum was trying to coordinate another wagon and to me, that feels like the wagon on Scorpious. We know that Galron who is scum, started it and likely tried to get his teammates to get Scorpious eliminated. It fails though. I think that scum is somebody on that wagon.

Questions/suggestions/concerns/engagement are all welcome. Also, a votecount.

[Looker]

ffs ignore the 838/839 quotes

[Looker]

Why would I shield the wagon, though? There's nobody to shield.

You could be shielding Nathann, Greeting, Scorpious, yourself

[Looker]

I don't think you guys know what you're doing. "Give me a gamesolve or you're scum" isn't a legit tactic, neither is "Everybody's quiet so they suck". What are your questions? This is a discussion, not a homework assignment. No one's going to talk to you if you're rude or combative...or boring.

I'm also cool with flipping as long as there's retribution. STD voting me with no reasoning is odd and worth looking into post-flip, as is Nathann if RH9 is adamant there were no scum on ADSE's wagon (which I think is a peculiar take).

[Looker]

For discussion sake, if scum were on ADSE, who do you think it would be - gonna be phone posting for the holidays so bear with me.

Pedit wow

[Looker]

If you're asking if I have reads and I'm not giving any, wouldn't that imply that I have none? I don't understand your confusion. Also, I've already stated my interests are Three and RH9 - are you asking me to give a personality quiz to the other players? There's not really much to go on, which is probably why everyone's so divided and no one's talking, seeing as the expectations are so high and people are being snarky.

[Looker]

I'm interested to see Nathann and STD flesh out their suspicions, but, again, kinda just got here and started playing.

[Looker]

Seeing as lookers account is older than Google, I’m assuming they replaced in as a favor, and not intending for n being a beacon of activity.

Anything stand out to you Looker about this game?

Sorry, I missed this. No, not really. It just looks like a bunch of strangers arguing over nothing. Do you feel there's something clarifying that has assisted your formation of suspicions?

p-edit Jesus lol

[Looker]

Remember how good it worked in Newbie 2083.

What do you mean by "how good it worked"?

[Looker]

Good, good. Just wanted to make sure you were what I thought you were before I dismissed you.

[Looker]

Just as rule of thumb. If we have a 1 shot cop they are essentially a named townie until GF flips. A full cop holds inno checks unless they have 2 alive at least and even then there aren't any hard clears till GF flips.

Town roleblocker and cop can confirm each other if rb hits cop. Rn and doc can I'm theory but it's only one way. Doc confirms town RB exists but town rb can't confirm doc.

Understand named townie, understand hold 2 innos, kind of understand cop confirming rb, don't understand how a doc can confirm a roleblocker.

[Looker]

O wait if the target dies. Strongman isn't normal. But rb can't confirm doc - okay, makes sense. Sorry.

[Looker]

VOTE: Three E-1
Unless RCE would like to join me on RH9 and split wagons?

[Looker]

vc

Three (2): Jacket, Three
RH9 (2): Greeting, Scorpious

Looker (1): Nathann

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.
(expired on 2021-12-26 22:14:02) remains.

Fixed the deadlines – they're added back to the VCs.

[Looker]

Spoiler: Never mind

There's so much to respond to and unpack but I'll have to get to it later when I have time. Right now I just want to go over the concept of this game supposedly being solved.

So for whatever wild reason, I'm being lead to believe that Scorpius, Jacket, and myself are likely all town. That seems to be the consensus right now, correct?

So with have three consensus town reads, and RC as our IC. That leaves only five players left, two of which are scum and one of which is SK. However, we also have a Vig, and likely a Cop as well. If the town reads are correct, we win by claiming today, and even if we decide against claiming the PoE is so ridiculously small that we still just win.

The PoE in this case is Greeting/Looker/Nathann/RH9/STD. Jacket thinks RH9 is town, and I'm fairly certain Nathann is town. Which leaves the hero solve as Greeting/Looker/STD, who all have had suspicion this game as it is anyway. Looker would be my first choice in this case, since I think Strange looks worse today than he did Day 1, he was the most suspicious out of PoE Day 1, and Looker upon replacing in isn't looking particularly townie.

If you guys are actually confident that Scorpius, Jacket, and I are all town, this kind of has to be the route we take here.

Okay, so firstly - who said or even suggested that this game is solved? You say "supposedly" which implies that it has been said before, but I see no such statement from anyone.

Secondly, I am not sure what consensus you're referring to. The only player I definitely think is town is

Nathann

.

Scorpious

and

Jacket

are definitely edging towards the townie side, but I do not include either in my townreads. If you're mentioning a consensus, then please explain to me how you think it came by and what is it exactly.

Finally, when it comes to suspicion on me - the only person who ever majorly suspected and questioned me in this game is

Jacket

. They haven't made it clear what their position on me is as of now. Why would I be included in a list with

StrangeMatter

and

Save_The_Dragons

who both have been suspected by various players? I mean, you're free to point at players who you think is scum as you like, but you're implying that this list is supported by the opinions of others, yet I see no other support.

This doesn't feel like a genuine way of thinking. There's so many holes in this.

You know a lot of the questions you ask me could be answered if you just...read the game. This is the second time I've had to say this now.

If you’re going to keep dodging questions claiming they’ve been answered, without even pointing where, then I’ll VOTE: Three. I’ve had a lot of patience for your shady behavior and so far have always been giving you the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps this approach was wrong.

Sorry

[Looker]

All the fuckin bold shit threw me off

[Looker]

Three seems unnecessarily hostile.

That’s why I asked if it was an alt. Which was promptly ignored.

I’m ok with pressure here

VOTE: Three

That’s E-2 btw

I'm guessing it threw Scorpious off as well, because this vote came after yours

[Looker]

Well unless the Vig decides to listen to scum again I guess.

Listen to which scum saying what?

[Looker]

I don't know. Jacket gets a free win unless the Vig listens to scum - I don't know who the scum would be that would be able to stop Jacket's win if he's the one you're saying is scum. I'm confused.

[Looker]

"Jacket gets a free win unless the Vig listens to scum" = my interpretation of 947/948

[Looker]

Three seconds of excitement realizing I'm still alive in the game before

VOTE: Looker

Three sucks. Obnoxious player. Not dealing with them again.

Congrats, Greeting, on saving someone on your way out. I'll be back later tonight - happy holidays/weekend/prophylactic

Edit: If we're going to take the activity route then I'll save you guys time and self-vote right now. That's a lose-lose argument I never win with scum. Sorry.

[Looker]

I decided to take a break over the Night phase.

What do you usually do over the night phase

hi

The fact that anyone would push me for not contributing (as a replacement) when STD has the ISO that they have is blatant bullying.

Paranoia kicks in - is STD avoiding miselims as scum to circumvent VCA?

Spoiler:

VC

A Dreary Saturday Evening (7) [HAMMER]: Nathann, Cupcake Butterfly, RCEnigma, RH9, Greeting, Scorpious, Not_Mafia

Scorpious (5) [E-2]: Galron, Save The Dragons, Not_Mafia, Three, A Dreary Saturday Evening
Save The Dragons (1): StrangeMatter

With 13 alive it took 7 to hammer

A Dreary Saturday Evening

.

There are (expired on 2021-12-17 02:29:03) left before deadline.

A Dreary Saturday Evening has been hammered. Twilight will last until XX:46 at a minimum. All alive may still post until the flip.

vc

Three (5) [HAMMER]: Jacket, Three, Greeting, Scorpious, Looker

Looker (2): Nathann, Save The Dragons
Jacket (1): RCEnigma

With 9 alive it took 5 to hammer

Three

, with 3 days, 8 hours, and 57 minutes of discussion time remaining.
(expired on 2021-12-26 22:14:02) remains.

Three has been hammered! The twilight timer already passed.

VT

[Looker]

VC

A Dreary Saturday Evening (7) [HAMMER]: Nathann, Cupcake Butterfly, RCEnigma, RH9, Greeting, Scorpious, Not_Mafia

Scorpious (5) [E-2]: Galron, Save The Dragons, Not_Mafia, Three, A Dreary Saturday Evening
Save The Dragons (1): StrangeMatter

With 13 alive it took 7 to hammer

A Dreary Saturday Evening

.

There are (expired on 2021-12-17 02:29:03) left before deadline.

A Dreary Saturday Evening has been hammered. Twilight will last until XX:46 at a minimum. All alive may still post until the flip.

Just noticed that this has Not_Mafia voting two people at once. Mechanic or error?

I decided to take a break over the Night phase.

What do you usually do over the night phase

Actually it doesn't matter, we can only exist in 1 setup with multiple nightplay world's.

StD is conftown regardless.

Can you explain this? Because STD is where I want to vote. Is it because of 998? I'm accustomed to fakeclaiming being a thing.

Spoiler: Post 998

i'm not VT did you want my full claim

The setup is DDVMTTT with 2 conftown in myself and StD.

4v2v1

Im fairly certain that SK killed greeting last night and maf struck SK. With their BP down they are at risk of losing tonight.
SK also loses if they shoot town tonight. Scum can't CC SK with two alive because they just lose.

Looker/jacket/Scorpius/rh9/Nathan contains all non town

Looker/jacket/Scorpius likely contains all scum and possibly SK but I'm not quite as sure on the SK.

I'm actually sure that Scorpius is conf!scum at this point and Jacket is the likely partner.

So looker/rh9/Nathan is my SK pool with rh9 being most likely to me.

How are you drawing the conclusion of an SK when there are no kill flavors?

[Looker]

I interpreted "decided to take a break" as a deviation from the norm and was curious what the norm was

[Looker]

I was pre-empting any "why didn't you reread the game during the Night phase?" questions.

O ok, so you figured you should have read during the night phase but didn't and that people would call you out for it. Fair.

[Looker]

And it would have been more advantageous for STD to claim VT as scum than risk a counterclaim? (I'll have to go through and look at the different roll possibilities later tonight, but thank you for laying it out because...lol)

[Looker]

No, the key piece I was suspicious of was the "A PR wouldn't be claiming VT here". I think that's the only difference in our initial approaches. Lol having to trust people's words is exciting. If it's not STD, then I think it's Jacket - coming for me for not contributing when STD previously had no justification for such a lackluster ISO is madness.

[Looker]

So, i’m not even close to anyone here in mafia theory apparently.

Reading the above makes my head hurt..

I am VT.. however that changes anything. Base your figuring off that and you will figure it out..

You are loved, Scorpious.

[Looker]

Also, before I forget: Google was started in 1998 - I didn't join until 2009 my account is not older than Google (I'm rereading ISOs to help me solve lol)

[Looker]

I tried to go through the different roles but had to step away. Spoilered are the different elements I see from NKs. I'll return to it later.

Spoiler:

DD = Doctor, 1-Shot Doctor
DDDD = 2 Doctors, 1-Shot Doctor

TTTT = Goon, Goon, Roleblocker
TTT = Goon, Goon, Roleblocker, Serial Killer
T = Goon, Roleblocker, Godfather, Serial Killer

M = Innocent Child
MMM = 2 Masons + Innocent Child

VVV = Vigilante, 1-Shot Vigilante
VVVV = 2 Vigilantes
VVVVV = 2 Vigilantes, 1-Shot Vigilante
More than 5 V's = 2 Vigilantes, 1-Shot Vigilante

I said it was between you and STD. STD claimed PR. You also had the "accidental" hammer yesterday.

I remain skeptical. Accepting STD's claim without scrutiny feels like TMI to me. And insinuating the hammer was dropped on purpose despite the E-2 claim is kind of meh. You're all over the place.

Spoiler: 872/873

VOTE: Three

That’s E-2 btw

if scorpius is spewed not mafia by galron too, that leaves {jacket, looker, nathann} for mafia

In what way is Scorpious spewed not mafia by Galron?

[Looker]

VOTE: RH9 He's either SK or scum. If STD is the last PR, there's no reason for RH9 to play the way he's played. Jacket is untrustworthy and pulls people down to his level in arguments, so I'm not pulling a Three with his deathtunnel. STD is dead regardless of 1-shot if she's town. Scorpious vs Nathann is unresolved, but I feel it's devolving into playstyle critiques instead of case-building. I'm with my family, so I don't anticipate changing my vote before the end of the day. Good luck guys and Happy New Year.

Also, there are people jogging shirtless outside and it's December 30th - wtf. Are we all going to die for real?

[Looker]

Guess that's proof we don't have a PT together

[Looker]

Though, was Looker even doing anything while me and Scorpious were screaming at each other?

Skiing. I was skiing. Happy holidays.

[Looker]

For me it was moreso waiting to see if you guys would say anything damning. We just had a cockfest with Three and Jacket and it didn't really end well, so I was curious if one of you was aligned with Jacket and trying to repeat the process. It doesn't really matter now, though, because whether one of you is scum or SK, I'm pretty confident in RH9 being the complimentary anti-town. It's really difficult picking a 'victor' when OMGUS is involved.

Edit:@1205

[Looker]

Random thought: If STD blew his load D1 (three kills), Greeting could have blown his earlier, too. With one kill last night, scum could know who SK is. My proposal is that SK work with town to eliminate a scum read tonight since scum have to target RCE or STD. That way, we could drop the factions down to two and both have a fairer chance at winning.

[Looker]

7 > D3 No Elim > 5 remaining with at least 1 anti-town faction

No kill - 7 remaining: 2 scum, 1 SK, 4 town
If SK hits scum, scum hit town - 1 scum, 1 SK, 3 town
If scum hit SK, SK hits town - 0 SK, 3 town, 2 scum
If crosskill - 1 scum, 0 SK, 4 town

Is a no elim what you're aiming for?

p-edit: I guess it took me longer to post that than I thought

[Looker]

Jackets gives me NoPowerOverMe and Battle Mage flashbacks.

if scorpius is spewed not mafia by galron too, that leaves {jacket, looker, nathann} for mafia

In what way is Scorpious spewed not mafia by Galron?

I want to believe that Nathann is scum (due to Jacket not being hammered with two votes on him), but I feel that would signal the SK. Scum could be not voting right now (or Jacket could be scum). Hitting scum only helps if the SK will collaborate - hitting SK pushes endgame back and gives us more time. I feel RH9 is a good bet for both.

[Looker]

Quoting's a lot harder to do on the phone. RIP Betty White

[Looker]

I said that lol. Either way, you're right, no more drunkposting. Guess I'll have to actually talk to my family

[Looker]

I'm pretty sure a town advantage can be found in all of this. When I'm no longer celebrating, I'll find it. Off the top of my head, at least we only lost 1 town. What that means, I have no idea, but it's a start.

[Looker]

Dang, no birthday wishes. Tough crowd. (I feel some of this "woe is me" stuff is theater)

Spoiler:

i'm wondering if people could post readlists for my benefit, would be nice to see where everyone's at

Where did you crumb vig

[Looker]

Nathann not dying is weird, but it'd be hypocritical of me to fixate on it because I wasn't voting him. That's where I feel my vote's going to go today.

[Looker]

• I don't understand why Jacket wasn't voting at deadline.
  
• I don't understand why Save the Dragons wasn't voting at deadline. I also don't understand why Save the Dragons is still alive if they're a claimed PR.
  
• I don't believe Scorpious is scum unless RH9 or Nathann is scum - otherwise I feel Scorpious's partner would have hammered Nathann.
  
• If Nathann is not scum, I don't understand why they weren't hammered/eliminated yesterday.
  
• I don't know what RH9 is anymore. If they're scum, I feel they're scum with Nathann or Scorpious. If I were scum with RH9, I would have hammered Nathann.

i'm wondering if people could post readlists for my benefit, would be nice to see where everyone's at

scorp
nathann
rh9
looker

least to most willing to vote. RH9 moved down because of his voting stunt last phase.

Why is Looker at the bottom

i think i'm at

scorpius
jacket
nathann
rh9
looker

but that's mostly for mafia, kind of ignoring the SK at the moment.

Why is Looker at the bottom

Why

would

I die? It'd have been a death sentence for Scorpious, of course he wasn't going to kill me. Now he can just keep pushing nonsense about me and respond with "but you're scum!" to anything I say, and nobody cares to actually look into his arguments.

I was referring to hammer.

I turned my notes pt into a burn book.

[Looker]

I don't understand why Save the Dragons wasn't voting at deadline.

i was entertaining all new years eve/new years day and didn't have time for the deadline falling on the holiday

Spoiler:

Deadlines and Timing

1. Days last
   ten

   days
   minus 16 hours for each person that is dead
   at the start of the day (so the pace of the game should increase the more people die.) Nights last
   two
   days.

As expressed, I don't think it's RH9. VOTE: Nathann

[Looker]

That doesn't make sense. Why would SK out if they're going to get eliminated at parity?

[Looker]

But what would be the win?

[Looker]

All that happens is now I vote you tomorrow. I don't get it.

[Looker]

Because I don't believe you.

[Looker]

And why would Mafia kill town when you've just confessed to aiming for them? And if you're not mafia, why weren't you eliminated yesterday? It seems last ditch.

[Looker]

And desperate. Impressive if effective, but still not logical.

[Looker]

Nathann, who did you target N2 and N3?

And this.

Edit: That's not my sentiment

[Looker]

From my POV, you don't make sense as SK. You make more sense as scum trying to preserve majority.

Edit: Why not a scumread

[Looker]

If you've been thinking I'm scum, why wouldn't you have killed me? Or Scorpious?

[Looker]

Am I being played here? Lol cuz this isn't making sense

[Looker]

But RH9 had more votes than you. Why wouldn't I just vote him out?

[Looker]

he could be your partner

If RH9 was my partner, why wouldn't I have hammered Nathann with him yesterday?

[Looker]

Lmao I'm so divided right now. This really does not make sense from an SK tho

Edit: I'll be back

[Looker]

Before I go. This doesn't make sense to me because Nathann's wagon stalled before deadline with players not voting. He's saying he'd work with town when, even when he had the opportunity (N3), he's saying he killed RCEnigma instead. Then, he's saying he'd rather lose later than now when it's a loss either way. It doesn't make any sense for an SK to do this. It makes way more sense for a scum with pending majority to do this if they think they have the actual SK pegged (i.e. RH9).

Edit: Hammering a consensus right before deadline wouldn't have been seen as scummy when the alternative was a no-elim. Sorry in a cab.

[Looker]

SK shoot Nathann, force ELo

[Looker]

Remember how good it worked in Newbie 2083.

No redactions

[Looker]

I literally never use logic to scum hunt. I think it's improved my meta.